HOW MUCH FITNESS DO YOU NEED TO ZWIFT IN CATEGORY B?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2024
- Zwift category B is tough!
Course: 2019 World Harrogate Circuit, Yorkshire
Category C
Thanks all for watching, commenting and for those who also subscribe!
Please drop a comment if you have any advice that you think would help me become a stronger rider - hope you all enjoy!
I'm a category C Zwifter, with an zFTP of 278 weighing 77.7kgs.
Equipment:
Wahoo Kickr V5
Wahoo Kickr Climb
Apple TV 4k
Samsung 27" M50B monitor
Garmin HRM-DUEL - เกม
As an A rider, cat B is so hard. It's the wild west of riders, you've got 100kg riders with a 380w ftp, 3.2w/kg riders with a 17 w/kg sprint, and everything in between.
That’s a very accurate statement Peter 👍🏻 The range seems massive with the majority of racers in the C or B category. I can’t imagine how strong you’ve got to be to race in cat A!
Don't forget the odd 5.5w/kg for 5 minutes...
Congrats and welcome back to B! 🎉
I totally agree with you about 1 to 5 minute power as being important. Many Zwift races end up in packs where you can get a rest until someone spices it up for a bit… normally between 1-5mins then settles down. Certainly in CAT B anyway.
Thanks very much matey 👍🏻 I really need to work on that 1-5 minute power with the hope that it’ll settle after that, and I’ll still be in the group! Hope to see you on Zwift soon mate 👍🏻
@@notpogi I'm not sure if we are "friends" in game as I can't seem to find you. But yes, hopefully we meet in game some time.
Last WTRL season, I came 1st in race one in cat c, well within limits. Upgraded to cat B for the rest of the season, in the bottom 10 places every race. Impossible jump up.
Congrats on the win firstly, it’s always good getting a win and I know how competitive cat C is 👍🏻 Definitely proves the point that there’s too big a gap between categories at the moment, hopeful Zwift will look at the this soon!
Congratulations on promoting upto B. 🙌
Great video analysis. Enjoyed watching. 👌
Thanks Ryan 👍🏻 much appreciated matey 🙂
Congrats on being Cat B again! I last commented when you'd gone down to C and I was B, predicting that next time you'd be Cat B and I'd be C... and that's exactly where we are. Probably also currently quite a few top Bs who were A before the festive season. But what a brutal start on that long uphill drag. Felt it!
Hi Simon, that’s really funny - excellent prediction mate! I’m no good in races with a fast start, it’s something I need to get better at for sure! Wonder if we’ll ever be in the same category…?! 👍🏻
Nice work on getting back to 🅱🥳 I 100% agree with what you, and DOOM, say about the 1-5 min power 👌 I've noticed it more it recently in 🅰 and it especially seems to happen on hill sections 🥵 Ride On and I look forward to future content 👍
Thanks very much mate, I was hoping it wouldn’t take me too long to get back into B! The 1-5 min power will be key for me going forward, I can imagine it’s unbelievably tough in cat A! Appreciate your kind words, ride on 👍🏻
Well raced Ollie. Think that’s a very accurate portrayal of many B racers experience. The standards have definitely upped, maybe a combination of the broader cat enforcement limits, a bit of deliberate cat suppression and the normal mix of less than accurate stats people are using. I’ve been in the Bs twice and I found it pretty demoralising. I’m probably guilty of wanting to stay in the Cs to be competitive to be totally honest and I know that’s the wrong attitude. Can’t wait for Zwift to make some changes on race categories. Great effort in the FR racing series too, thanks for the heads up on using the Intervals website too, finding it really helpful to understand my fitness/ fatigue levels. Look forward to your next race videos, thanks again for putting these out.
Thanks Andrew 👍🏻 really appreciate that, FRR was fun and glad intervals is helping - it’s my go-to app after racing or any type of cycle workout, I sometimes get a bit obsessed with all the stats!
I knew as my fitness increased I would naturally get bumped up to B but I was probably guilty of the same thing - it’s difficult because winning and being at the front is more enjoyable than trying even harder and ending up near the back. I’m really hopeful that Zwift will change this soon!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Which app do you refer too? In which video can I find it back? Thanks
@@ArnMartBelgo it’s a website. Intervals. ICU.
Great video. I agree the categories have widened. I find C tougher than a year or two ago but that's a good thing. You can vary the competitiveness by choosing day and hour, scratch races anyway, and that provides a cat within a cat. Zwift has enough races and riders to make that work pretty well. You'll definitely start finishing with the lead pack soon enough. Having enough for the sprint at the end will probably require the added effort of pushing out PBs fairly regularly. In the B races I've seen the whole rider list is in red numbers. I'm a C and that's pretty rare.
Thanks very much 🙂 I do agree it’s a good thing as it’ll hopefully push me on a bit! And you’re right - lots of different race options will keep it interesting. I’m hopeful that I’ll get used to the starting pace after a few more races, having anything left for the sprint at the end will be something else to work on 👍🏻👍🏻
@@notpogi I've been looking at stats in Zpower in my races and nowdays it seems that those who podium often push less watts than other people. There is something to master the draft and effort.
But there is also the issue with A level riders hiding a Bs. If you race as B you put out average power of B, even if your an A. There are people who ride as hard as me but have much better power in sprint. And i regularily take sprint jerseys while i'm doing sprint segments in Zwift. I can't explain that in any other way that when i ride threshold as genuine B they ride at tempo so they are much fresher all the time.
My FTP was 3.8w/kg but constantly i finished midpack. And i'm versatile rider with high sprint, not timetrial diesel. Couple years ago i got close to podium at worse fitness, now i think i must be close to 4,3 w/kg to podium.
What you say about feeling that cat C has alot of people that could compete in category B is absolutely true, and the same applies to category B with people that could compete in category A. The system of category enforcement can be played around if you are careful to not have any rides which go over the threshold. If you just sit in the peleton in races your watt/kg will be within the enforcement range of that category. For riders with abilities that exceed the category it then becomes rather easy to compete in races by just putting down the power when it matters. If you look at race results its often the same people that win/compete for podium every race (especially true for the big competitive races around prime time), however these people don't put down higher watt/kg on average over the race than most other riders. they just sit more comfortably within the peleton and push when it matters while making sure not to do any rides that would push them in a higher category.
For example: lets say I know from last season i can do 4.5W/kg in 30 minute races. That would put me in A category. If I just go easy on solo rides and ride comfortably in B races in the group I can easy hold the front group with about 3.7W/kg and push big power in the last KM. Since i rode in the draft most of the time my average will still be around 3.7W/KG and as long as I keep doing that I can be super competitive in B cat because my ability is just a bit better while never being promoted to A category.
PS its just an example - I am not an A category rider myself :)
Great comment, and I agree with everything you say 👍🏻 The way the system works makes it super easy for a rider to be in a lower category, sit in the pack and take home the win at the end of the race or do enough to breakaway and win without going over the category threshold. It’s definitely more fun winning races than it is completing mid/low end of the field and not everyone will have the motivation to upgrade which is unfair on those that do. I think it’d be good if Zwift introduced something similar to the way it works IRL (I think they are) which would see a results based category 👍🏻
Great video Ollie and a great demonstration of how hard Cat B is! Here's a question for you, do you think that Zwift should close the Cat gaps and have more categories like we see in the FRR?
I think it would keep people competitive and it would stop people from being deflated when moving up from one Cat to the next as its a big jump! It's taken me about a year to go from bottom of Cat C to being able to stay with the front pack. Keep up the good work you're only getting better!
Thanks Phil 👍🏻, it was a real struggle! I do agree with you - I think Zwift should close the gap between categories (like FRR) and probably change the way they work entirely to results based cats like IRL. Apparently they’re looking at this and plan to make some changes soon - will be interesting to see what they come up with! That’s great progression mate from where you started in C, especially with how wide the cats now are 🙂
You picked a tough race there Ollie! A climb right at the start and a mass Cat start, if it had just been B's you would have been able to hold on to the front group on that first climb. You're right to work on your 1-5min power, that's where the majority of Zwift races are won or lost 👊💪
Hi mate, it felt ridiculously tough at the start - I’ll take your word that I would have been able to stay in the B pack if the A’s weren’t there 👍🏻 I’ll start the 1-5 minute build soon, will be a long road I think! Hope you’re feeling a bit more like yourself now and are rested up 👍🏻
@@notpogi Unfortunately I've come down with the flu now! I was just building my fitness back up as well! 😭
That’s such bad luck mate! Hope you feel better soon, you’ll be back stronger than before in no time 💪🏻
You're slumped near the relegation zone then in B.
Currently I feel like that in Cat D. Mindset is, as long as I don't finish in the bottom 3!
I think that’s a decent mindset to have, I’m not sure whether I’ll ever be strong enough to win a cat B race again but setting realistic goals and achieving those also makes racing enjoyable in my opinion 👍🏻
I'm just like you in your position, bro! I know what your feelings are 😁
It’s very difficult but nice to know it’s not just me struggling mate 👍🏻
As a fellow cat B I have the opposite problem to you. I'm quite explosive and can repeat bursts given some relative recovery, but I often hang on for dear life to the sustained hard pace which makes for a badly blunted sprint. We really do need a balance of both.
I don’t know how you do it! You’re absolutely right, a balance of both is definitely needed! I bet you absolutely clean up in sprint point races in ZRL (if indeed you race in the ZRL) 👍🏻
@@notpogi I don't - not in a team. My best result as a B is 3rd/99 in a Flat is fast stage that had just the right scenario : tame enough for me to feel comfortable overall yet hard up the volcano kicker to drop some heavier sprinters (or force them to waste their power-up).
Zwift has bumped the category levels a while back. I was almost winning at B when they bumpt the limits, causing me to become mid pack at best.
Exactly the same for me but rather than mid pack I managed to find myself in C - hopefully Zwift will have a look at the way it’s done soon 👍🏻
Strong effort!!! On a lumpy course, B cat to me is being able to do 5 w/kg for the first 3 -5 minutes of the race and then it tends to settle down a bit.. Mid race I'll find myself rolling 3.5 to 3.8... On flat finishes it's not much different than C cat and I'd say some of the C cat sprinters are just as quick as the B's... Now if it's an uphill finish, it's back to having that strong 1 min effort, and this is where the feather weights just destroy me.
Thanks very much Dustin 👍🏻 I think you’ve called how b/c races normally go absolutely spot on. You’re right when you mention that some cat C riders have strong sprints! I need to get better at the 1 min uphill finishes, I normally struggle with this 👍🏻
Correct me if I am wrong but I can remember videos of the ZRL that you did really well in the B's. You have what it takes to be a good B rider. A little more training for explosiveness and those vo2max blocks of about 5 minutes and you will be at the front of the race. Also watch this video. If you lasted just a little longer on that first climb, you would be there on the descent where you can catch your breath again.
Yeah you’re absolutely right Alex, and thanks for the kind words 👍🏻 I’ll definitely work on the VO2 like you suggest for 5 min blocks. I should have researched the course a little more beforehand as I could have rested on the descent, in hindsight I should have given everything to stay with the pack!
It’s fine the way it is. Can’t make everyone happy.
Very true
It can depend a lot on the race type in B, I'm strugling a lot on flat races with my poor sprint ability and being 60kg it can be hard to follow heavier riders with the same w/kg, but yesterday i'm really proud of my top 15 in B (from 144 at the start) I could shine thanks to the 2 20 mins climb of the Achterbahn route in Innsbruck (I put everything in the first climb and did a massive 4,3 w/kg for 20 mins couldn't believe myself afterward)
Sounds like you had an excellent race - some great power numbers there over the 20 minutes! It’s definitely worth knowing what your strengths/weaknesses are and matching that to the type of ride - looks like you’ve got that nailed 👍🏻 I really like the Achterbahn course, one of my favourites!
I'm getting close to B cat limits now.. last few c races been very close..think my zftp is about 6 watts off getting me bumped up..hopefully I stay c for ZRL
That’s pretty close mate! At least if you do get bumped try to make it a win 🥇 I’ll be keeping an eye out - good luck with ZRL Tuesday 👍🏻
As a 62kg rider who can't even come close to winning a semi flat Cat C race, I'm disappointed to be forced by Zwift to now only enter Cat B races.
More annoying, given in the past Cat C race I was in, I averaged 3.4w/kg for an hour trying to stay with an apparent 117kg rider putting out 2.7
That’s so annoying to be bumped up to B, I can imagine how tough it is on the flats! Hopefully Zwift will change the categories to a results based system like IRL, this should hopefully make racing much fairer 👍🏻
I have heard many people say the same thing, that Cat B is a whole different animal from Cat C, and the jump up seems like you skipped a Cat. But I have seen the same people who said that improve and podium in due time. You have many strengths. One of them is your dedication and work ethic to improve your self. Another one is your tactical mindset and your ability to adjust to changes, just like you said, to change from winning a race to change to staying with the pack as a new goal. 30th out of 34 for your first race in B this round? Give yourself some credit. And what a sprint!
Hi Linda 😊 thanks very much - I love how you always look at the positives! I was happy with the little sprint at the end - it was close though! I will continue to build my fitness and hopefully this will see me improve and enable me to set higher goals within the category like you say 🙂
I'm in exact same position as you. I'm top end c but really struggle in bottom of b. As soon as the b boys hit a climb they destroy me
It’s so difficult making any sort of progression into B without being at the back of the pack, it’s a bit demotivating! Aiming not to finish last isn’t as fun as fighting for the win!
I started doing B rides/racing. My power is about the same from C to B just to me more aggressively/hilly! I stick with the short ones 15-20 miles. I'm in zone 4 the whole time.
Interesting point David, maybe I’ll give the shorter ones a go. I can imagine that’s pretty good training as well sat at threshold for 15-20 mins 👍🏻
I’m by no means a serious racer but I used to struggle in Cat B but because I do some training sessions and like to do long climbs in climb portal or alp du Zwift I can’t race in b anymore as my power to weight is well into A.
I’ve just come to conclusion that racing and climbing are 2 very different things
That’s great that you’ve improved up to cat A power now, super impressive 👍🏻 I did a few climb portals and I do think they’re great training sessions also but you are right when you say they are 2 very different things. I wish I enjoyed the Alpe as much as you seem to, I do like it but I think it’s a once a month maximum attempt for me! 👍🏻
yeah that 5 minute power number is crucial in zwift the first five minutes of 99 percent of all the races on there start out hammering the power down and in cat b if you can hold 300 watts for 5 minutes or longer you can finish midpack to top 10 for most races once you get used to it then the tactics come into play more
It does seem that way, I’ll definitely need to work on my 5 minute power and just grin and bear it at the start. As you rightly say, the more times I can hold on the more I should get used to it 👍🏻
I agree about the big gaps in Cats...my 2.6-2.8 always put me at best at middle of C Cat....To win in any of the Cats you have to be at the upper end of the Cat thats why most sandbag to get in the lower cat but in the higher end of that Cat...Most C Cat winners will be 3.0-3.2...and for B Cat 3.7-3.9...if your a 3.3-3.4 its like impossible to win a B Cat race...I think there should be an extra Cat so they can tighten the gaps...E for example ..-2.0....D ....2.0-2.4 .....C...2.5-2.9....B...3.0-3.4....A 3.5 +
Yes I 100% agree with everything you say! There should definitely be D+ / C+ / B+ categories so it gives more of us a chance of winning races - I don’t know why this is so difficult for Zwift to create? I have heard they are moving to more of a results based category system but we’re already in March and nothing so far!
Your right, cat B was slower a year ago and I’m not sure why it’s changed. You need to hold 4 watts/kg to stay with the lead peloton.
It really does feel that way, I’m not sure what benefit upgrading has anymore when the range between top and bottom of the category is so large. Hopefully Zwift sort this soon with different category sizes or a results based system like IRL 👍🏻
It feels like Zwift keeps tinkering with how top end CAT Bs are categorised.. plenty of riders with over 4.2w/kg sitting in CAT B. I know plenty who can mix it with cat A but are in CAT B.
FWIW I think Cat B rides harder overall than Cat A. In Cat A we tend to go 120% on the tough sections but will then bumble along the other bits like it's a recovery ride. Cat B tends to be 90-100% from start to finish. So if you can hold on in a Cat B then you'll probably be okay in a Cat A as well (assuming you can hold those top end efforts for long enough).
That’s really interesting to know, I was thinking about trying an A cat race to see the difference- I think I’ll give it a go based on your view 👍🏻 I will definitely need to work on my 1-5 minute power but good to know about cat A 👍🏻
Cat A races are usually with less people so less draft. If you look on zwift power the power that the A riders push is quite significantly more than is required to win the same race in the B category.
@@HansH90 I am a Cat A rider. And race Cat A ZRL. So my POV is coming from direct experience. In Tuesday's ZRL race I finished a respectable 12th place and averaged 3.9wkg overall. The winner averaged 4.0wkg and 2nd and 3rd both averaged 3.8wkg. So over the entirety of the race we're not doing that many more watts than you would in a Cat B race. The main difference is the key climb section where splits were formed and groups created, I was averaging 5.8wkg for about 3min. A Cat B rider could do that for 1-2min but a Cat A rider needs to be able to sustain it for 3-5min. And from my direct experience, that is the primary difference between the two categories. Hence my original comment.
Feel free to look at the stats...especially flick between the A and B (and C) results and subsequent finish times (spoiler alert, it's a matter of seconds between A and B finish times but it's minutes between B and C) - zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=4133777
Work not only on your v02 max but also the repeatability. The more you can attack others, the more you wear them down and then can go for the jugular. You've got a good sprint on you so work on the threshold and v02 max and you'll be winning races.
Thanks Harry, sounds like excellent advice 👍🏻 The repeatability bit is going to be key for me!
@@notpogi I was in your position a few months ago demoralized getting pumped in B but the more you work at it the more competitive you get. I look forward to seeing your progress man.
It’s nice to hear that you’re enjoying it more now - I’ll 100% work on it and hopefully will get a few results 👍🏻👍🏻
What smart trainer do you use? Any recommendation for budget circa 600
Hi Shane, I use the kickr v5, it’s been pretty reliable so far. I think you can’t go far wrong with the kickr core / Zwift hub and maybe a Tacx Flux S - all seem like decent trainers 👍🏻
What I can't wrap my head around is IRL I can manhandle people I race on Zwift that are in my same cat (c) and play very well with some (A/B) on zwift. YET when I race a B race I'm killed, or the people in IRL in that B cat manhandle me on Zwift. I can't explain why there is not a more tight correlation between Zwift/IRL.
It’s a great point Greg, I haven’t got much experience racing IRL but I will be doing some this summer so it’ll be interesting to see how I stack up. I think it’ll be quite similar to what you’ve been seeing 👍🏻
I think the wheel is way more important on Zwift than they let it on to be. When it says close the gap it's not a polite suggestion, it's zwift telling you that they are about to drop you out of the group if you dont close it,.
Really interesting point Sean, I think this is where things like sauce are useful as it shows how much of the draft you’re using. I definitely will pay more attention to I see a close a gap message pop up 👍🏻
as a Long time cat C winner of ZRL races and now B i can See: there is a big Range of riders and some races are just brutal:-(
Great work winning in both categories, it’s super tough and as you say there is a massive range of rider abilities. I do find most of the ZRL races push me up to my limit 👍🏻
It's better to get spat out of B than to win C. Dont let your ego get in the way of getting materially better. Watch your own metrics improve and use the Peloton as your motivation.
I agree, I’d rather be in the highest category I could be in, even if that means I’m at the back of most B races. It ultimately will make me a better rider if I’m riding with a faster group. It will be interesting to see what Zwift do with the categories width or whether they do decide to move to a results based system like IRL 👍🏻
@@notpogi I'm about to know your pain. I'm right on the cusp of getting promoted to cat B. So we can compete at the back!
It'll make us stronger.
We’re being true to ourselves pushing as hard as we can 👍🏻 Mid pack maybe our win but that’s ok 👌🏻
My experience of racing B's was it was full of Cat A capable riders, that couldn't win in Cat A, so racing in Cat B to stroke their ego. Glad I gave up racing on Zwift.
Yeah I don’t know if much has changed. I’ve always wanted to be in the best category I can be no matter if I’m struggling out the back or at the front, this is why I think results based categories would be better 👍🏻
@@notpogi Couldn't agree more. There's nothing wrong with coming mid-pack in Cat A in my eyes. Let's be honest, They're just cheating themselves out of a legit win and causing a lull in motivation. Results based catergories does seem like a very valid suggestion.
Your the one Granny always talks about.
Absolutely love what Linda does - she is an inspiration!
I just did my first FTP test and got placed cat b @249 ftp
Nice job 👍🏻 that’s a very impressive first FTP
3.7 wkg for 20 min is not enough for front of B at any race. You need to be able to do that for an hour. If you’re at or above the limit the whole time you can’t do the 1-5 min efforts.
Yeah agree actually, definitely not strong enough to be at the front of B at 3.7 wkg - will need to work on that also 👍🏻
It's not so difficult race in B Category but it's hard to stay in the front
Yeah so true, I find the front of category B is very competitive 👍🏻
Cat B has really deflated my desire to race much anymore. Maybe because I just plain suck, but I feel like the margin is too large to remain competitive. In my opinion.
What is your preferred race distance? I can't say I see you race crits much..
I do feel it’s so much harder than it used to be mate, and you definitely don’t suck! I’m swaying towards 45 mins to an hour as my preferred distance, I used to love a 20 minute blast but I get a bit bored going around in the same circle (plus I get dropped a lot of the time)! What about you?
I feel your pain Eric… the gap between a new B and top end B’s is huge. Hopefully they can fix up the match making soon.
One suggestion I’ve got for anyone who’s struggling in their respective category is to look on zwiftpower at all the races and click on ranking. Try and pick lower ranking races as then there’s less chance of highly ranked riders dominating the race.
So many riding without helmets. Is that even allowed?
I would never ride without one in real life, so I always ride without one on Zwift!
Seems like anything goes in the virtual Zwift world!
@@Simon-ry6vx It's an unfair advantage. Especially on the climbs, because no helmet is cooler on the head. Next you'll see people riding with brake hoods turned in and socks that are too high. Someone has to crack down.
4.5 as 5 min power gets you somewhere in cat B…
It’s definitely not too bad but could be better I think 👍🏻
I don’t know why I’m in there… my ftp is about 3.5W/kg but I can’t hold anything way higher for long. I’m never able to actually race… where you were doing 350W at 150bpm, im doing that at 180…
I’m the same, I think my last 20 min power PB was a bit higher but 3.5wkg is pretty much my max also. I think my HR was lower than normal because it was the start of the race and I’d not really had a decent warm up, I’m usually around 165-170 for that sort of effort before I crack. 184 is my max hr but I rarely hit that.. plus I’m getting old now!
I've seen many cat A races ending up with lower wkg than cat B races. Higher np though
Wow that’s crazy! Sometimes cat A can seem a bit empty when I look at some of the start pens, which is a shame and probably indicates the categories are maybe a little B/C range heavy?
Just do what half the zwifters do, just set weight to 40kg... Then i also average 7w/kg
Haha 😂 I reckon there’s a bit of that that goes on, would be nice if my 280 watts was 7 wkg!
That not a B race ? their some A Cat in their ?
It was an all category start so we all went at the same time - I think that does influence the pace somewhat! 👍🏻
a lot
Ha! Yeah that’s accurate 👍🏻
It’s discouraging for those who want to win but can’t because the sand baggers. The are cheating lesser cats of winning or showing true improvement.
I personally would rather be in the highest category I can be in, even if that means finishing near the back every race. Would be good if the range within each category wasn’t so wide or if Zwift looked at results based categorisation 👍🏻
Try being 60 years old.
I always have massive respect for anyone that Zwifts, but even more for those that are nearing or past retirement age 😊 I’d imagine you’re probably more healthy than some 20 year olds!
It’s not racing it’s just p#ssing about
It is a game!