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Liz, thank you so much for doing this. Someone needed to shine the light for sure. I bought a 2022 Braxton Creek free solo Romo - not an expensive unit but I can't even begin to tell you the nightmare that I went through that took almost a year for Braxton Creek to finally make repairs on a brand new unit. The main problem that they finally got repaired was a water leak basically on the back third of the unit where the entire back wall was buckled and bubbled. Thanks again for everything you do. Keep shining your light.
@@South_Affylike everything, as the demand increases, the workers making them have been pushed to work harder/faster or less skilled workers have been added to production, and the quality is the first thing that slips.
@@carloschu7127 I know people who own RVs. The warranty is VERY spotty. Aside from the poor build/assembly quality of the manufacturer there is an issue with the appliances. What often happens is that the RV manufacturer either states that the appliance warranty must be negotiated between the buyer and the APPLIANCE manufacturer. The RV manufacturers normally does not act as an intermediary and would likely just slow things down if they did. The appliance manufacturers may in turn claim that the fault was due to improper installation, voiding the warranty (i.e. a pissing match regarding a - stove, A/C, heater, refrigerator, TV, stereo, water heater, generator, control panel, oven, pump, etc.
I give them credit for stepping up and wanting to do right by Jeff and Sharon. But honestly, it seems like all the RV companies in Elkhart are putting out junk. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
@@LizAmazing _"I give them credit for stepping up and wanting to do right by Jeff and Sharon."_ *I don't.* Thor didn't do jack $#!+ until Jeff & Sharon took their story public on Liz Amazing's channel. That's no way to do business or to treat your customers. No customer should have to do that just to get their brand-new $400,000 RV brought into proper working condition! (The way it should've been in the first place!)
Yes. Or we talk about an older bus chassis in the follow up: Here’s the rest of the story in the update, and thanks for watching: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpc/w-d-xo.html
I’ve watched other videos of a mechanic that worked on rvs and he basically said that you should buy one 3-4 years old. That’s basically how long it takes for the original owner to get all the issues resolved and give up!!
Plus it's loses ~35% of its value in those first 4-5 years before depreciation finally starts to level off... Don't assume what an inspector can and can't do, get an inspector!
@@HuddlesNCuddles When Covid hit families bought boats & RV’s since they couldn’t fly or go on A cruise. The RV industry was depleted. Manufacturers beefed up production & filled acres of new product. The world is controlled by the banking industry. They determined that the value of new would control the future… dropping values on preowned. An RV is A depreciating asset. The preowned have taken A huge downfall on value for the last 3 years. Taking A toll on consumers. It’s sad.
Steve Lehto, an attorney who specializes in lemon law, warns all potential RV buyers that RVs are not covered by lemon law. He has a number of horror stories about RV problems in which the dealer won't help and the RV may have to be taken to the manufacturer where it may sit for months without being worked on. The moral is " buyer beware" for all RVs/
I was wondering if someone would bring Steve's name up. He's made several videos regarding RV purchase and what to look out for. He also provides good "legal" advise that would best serve RV owners with problems. My guess is this company will string the owners along just enough such that the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act no longer applies (think it's 3 years / 36,000 miles)... then they will likely get ghosted permanently. If it were me, I would definitely contact a lawyer that specializes in this area. You may never need to use them... but at least you know your options before they run out.
Cannot imagine taking a vacation in one of these motor homes. If I have to cook our meals I’d much rather be in my own kitchen at home. Pulling one of those behemoths all over the country and hooking up all the gadgets at some campsite is not my idea of a fun time. You campers are a special breed and I admire you. You’ll find me at the Marriott.
Well for an occasional vacation yep- I get that. But those of us that want to retire and travel part time or full time- to not have to pack and move constantly is great. But the quality is not what it used to be at all
Yeah I agree. To me camping is going fishing at a small lake sleep in a tent one night build a fire cook on a charcoal grill after 30 hours you’re done go home. It’s fun that way. Traveling across the states drive a big SUV visit cities hot spots eat at nice restaurants and sleep in a super hotel.
Wow! I watched the video and listened very carefully to them describe all the problems they had with a $400K vehicle and they’re some of the calmest people I’ve very seen in my lifetime under the circumstances. At least Thor responded and took action after a ton of backlash. Great video, thank you Liz.
Thank you much. Yeah, I think they had just given up. Note how much more animated Jeff was during the update. Looking forward to seeing what Thor does and doing a follow up. Thanks for watching
These RV manufacturers got away with so much during the pandemic, and now they can't get rid of the rigs. I just purchased a fifth wheel for 1/2 of what they were trying to sell it for last year, and also due to "lot rust" I had them fix multiple things that took nearly a month before accepting it for final purchase. Great video and sorry for your experience. One would think at a 450k price point the service and support would be amazing!
I’m glad I’ve been watching these videos. My wife and I wanted to retire and buy an RV for our retirement and now I’m so glad I’ve been watching these videos and TOTALLY changed our minds about what we want to do when both of us are retired and it will NOT be RVing thank you!
I purchased an older RV from a friend after his dad passed away. I paid cash. What I've learned is that my RV is built like a tank. For example, my cabinet doors are made of solid wood as are the doors to the rooms. My furniture is made of thick leather not the fake leather that peels on every new RV . It's got some age lines on it and a few miles on the odometer, but nothing I can't correct or simply live with.
New RV’s are rolling garbage heaps. It’s the old ones that were built with pride. Step inside a 2001 Itasca vs a 2023. You can tell where corners are now being cut.
I live on a steel Motor Boat and my partner did all the interior and most of the exterior. When we bought it a surveyor said the work required was only 'cosmetic'. After, it almost sank coming back from Penzance (maiden voyage) we realised that was B.S. It actually required a major refit - fortunately my partner has been able to do most of the work otherwise we would have been in trouble. When we complained to the MCA about the surveyor (he was recommended on their site) they weren't interested. I did a bit of digging and found out the surveyor was a real crook - he'd been to prison for fraud and various other misdemeanors - taking passengers out to sea without the proper tickets etc etc. So getting an 'expert' in is no guarantee of a problem free purchase. Basically, do your homework, test drive everything and only pay your money when you are certain things are sound. However, I love our boat now and probably more so because of all the trials and tribulations. We named the boat Tenacious. You both have a good attitude so I'm sure you'll weather the storm. ✌️
They aren't finding their integrity, as a matter of fact it's worse now than ever. The problem is people just keep lining up to buy this crap and the circle keeps going.
I agree, profits are king, however none repeat buyers will impact their bottom line eventually, so for us whom haven’t bought a new rig, pay attention and be stingy with your money, ask those difficult questions, like; do you have any recalls, better business bureau write ups and lemon law issues on this unit? Ask for references from current and past owners, if they refuse walk out!!!
We sold our 2018 RV last year and just started traveling to where we want to go and then rent a cabin. What a stress relief!! Seems like the last two RVs that I bought were built on Friday afternoon after they drank a 6 pack at lunch.
We can totally relate to Sharon and Jeff’s issues. In 2017 we bought a Thor Aria 3601 and the first weekend we took it out it rained and we had about 3” of rain in all the storage bays. Long story short everything in that RV leaked when it rained. Thor took it back to factory for a month and the first day I got it home I washed it and again the water was running in with the slide out in the closed position. After fighting with them for two years we sued them and got a settlement from them and then got rid of the coach. We had a list of 40 things that needed repaired the first weekend we took it out. NEVER ANOTHER THOR PRODUCT. After hearing horrid stories from other Thor owners I could write a book. We are now the proud owner of a Fleetwood product. We are on our 6th class A so we aren’t new to this camping thing. Good luck to all Thor owners. They sent field techs to my house 4 times and no results to the water issues just in case you was wondering.
I own a 2019 class C Thor Synergy 24’. From day one nothing but troubles. Roof leaked around roof window, both slide outs have been repaired numerous times. Shower leaked around the base shower pan. Many, many smaller things, as you said caulking etc. all inferior either done by morons or on purpose. Every trip is ruined by something not operating correctly. This RV spent over three months off and on at the dealer service department before initial warranty expired. Over the years I have had mobile RV techs fix the major things that were done wrong in manufacture of this LEMON. I have put my complaints in writing to the Dealer where I purchased and Thor the manufacturer to no avail. This is my 7th RV in 25 years and I can truly say “I cannot see how THOR remains in Business”! NEVER another RV that THOR has anything to do with.
I shared your pain. We retired and bought a Heartland " Bighorn" 40 foot fifth wheel 3610 RE. Right from the first day till the last day we owned it was a true nightmare. Broke our hearts and will never own another RV ! Absolute junk !
Don’t own an RV (yet) but have watched your channel for a couple of years. This is a great service you are doing for people (and the industry overall).
I’ve a friend with a Prevost coach that’s been on the road a lot over its life… very hi end unit. It spent a month in a Prevost repair facility near Daytona to repair and replace a few items with the final bill coming to a bit over $10,000.00. And still items didn’t work. I think there’s a total lack of quality control in the RV industry. You’re trying to create a home on wheels with all the amenities you’d find in a house, but in a moving vehicle bouncing over the hiways of America! Heck, we’ve got a government that’s broken, why not a RV!
I would completely lose my mind if I paid half a miliion dollars for a coach and had these kinds of problems. Thank you for convincing me to NEVER buy one of these, from anywhere.
@@imnitguy".. even have a have a half? Also regardless of income no one (except you) likes to buy something that was poorly made and prone to multiple failures making it largely inoperable. Gotcha.
This is the 3rd horror story I’ve heard about Thor. One guy discovered that his brand new RV had the interior destroyed after a storm by a 4” diameter hole someone cut in the wrong place in the roof. Instead of fixing anything they just installed the AC so it hid the hole! It gets even better… Thor refused to pay for anything that wasn’t part of the RV as delivered. The guy who bought it had already put in his own upgraded mattress, pillows, clothes, etc and mold had destroyed it all thanks to the unbelievable laziness at Thor, and they refused to cover one cent. There’s absolutely no way I would buy anything from that company unless they fired everyone now there, from the very top on down. They shouldn’t even be allowed to do business at this point.
I have decided not to buy anything after I have seen these stories over and over again, they don't care about you, all they care about is taking your money, why can't folks get it through their thick heads! I can't for the living daylights understand why people are continuing to purchase these pieces of junk! The industry is not going to change if folks keep buying these substandard products.
We have a 2016 KZRV SportTrek 334 Touring Edition and it’s been for the most part flawless. Hasn’t been to the dealership since we towed it off the lot. Over 20k miles on it now ( east coast to west coast) and going strong. Can’t speak for their current products however. Shame to hear these horror stories. They are not inexpensive.
@@Scott-mu6fkwe got extremely lucky with our 2013 Keystone Fuzion. No issues thank goodness 🤞But seeing as their quality has increasingly worsened, I would never buy a new Thor product ever again.
This hit home because I retired over a year ago and was seriously considering buying a new RV just like this one ($400k+) but the quality problems changed my mind. Shame on the people responsible for the poor design/build quality. Take some pride in what you do.
@@miguelnegrete8883 That's the problem. I personally know a licensed RV inspector. MOST of the time, the new RV's fail inspection. And that's just the first 100 point of inspection. THEN the customer will push them for recommendation for another brand. However, it's hit and miss. It's like a Ford owner who asks you, a Toyota owner, and that Fords owner buys a Toyota, and it didnt work for the buyer. Then it makes you a bad guy. He just tells them to do research (obviously) because it's a LOT of money to own one.
@slay2525 - "rich"...it's all relative. It seems to me that if designed correctly, and built with quality in mind, they'd be a lot safer. Either way, this post retirement plan has been scrapped.
Wow. Those poor people! What huge headaches and heartaches! What surprises me is that they spoke about it so calmly. I hope Thor not only fixes their concerns, but re-vamps their quality control department. That’s plain and simply shoddy workmanship. I’m glad throwing your weight around Liz, (😊) may help this couple. Stay safe and best wishes!
Awww, thanks Theresa! I sure appreciate you being here for the whole journey! I think they were so calm because they felt so dejected by the whole experience. Note how Jeff was much more animated during the update. I'm sure hoping Thor turns this mess around. Have a great weekend and see you next time!
@@jessstone7486 What's worse is when Thor bought Airstream some time back, I was thinking Airstream would be going downhill as well...even though BEFORE that Airstream was having too many QC issues. It's really hard to find a QUALITY RV maker, as most RV-makers are Crap-makers. Even if they're "above average" quality-wise, THAT isn't saying much. Overall, it seems to me that the Canadian RV makers are better, not only in quality (fit&finish/materials used) but also possibly their warranties are better, too. I DO like the small Class A Thor makes, mainly due to its smaller size (unlike most Class As) but the problem is that THOR makes them. No thanks... ;-) -- BR
My brother owns a 1 year old 38’ Jaco class A and has multiple problems. Major cabinet problems, heater needed repairs, outside steps are zipped tied up so they can travel, plumbing issues and cab A/C not working 5:15 and many other issues. Thor also owns Jaco.
Lemon law does not apply to RVs. You're never going to get these issues addressed without regulation. It's sad that we need the gov. to intervene, but there ya go.
@@bellonamars2541 depends on which ur in but most states absolutely have lemon laws n exactly same as cars. U absolutely r wrong where the hell do u get ur info?
Mass RV industry is so shady. Nothing is built to last because they assume these are impulse buys people are making and they'll get tired of them after a couple of years and sell them when they stop using it. I'm especially skeptical of the big gigantic expensive RVs. All the bells and whistles are just more things that could potentially break or go wrong.
It was the long screws going through the roof that did it for me, that's way beyond a genuine mistake, it looks deliberate. I'd be demanding a full refund..
Naw its just kids competing with each other to see who gets more units done faster (more pay?) Had a friend, who in his youth was hired to build manufactured homes with his brother.
Never even been in an RV and not sure why TH-cam recommended this channel but I'm glad they did cause you're doing the lords work by trying to help these poor people that are trying to live their dream and get caught up with these situations. Keep up the grear work Liz!
But who would sink $450,000 in a camper? If you are a "full timer," it's almost a nomadic life style. Meet your neighbors on Monday - they are gone Tuesday morning. Try a nice Popup or, better yet, how about a nice tent? Now that's the way "to camp." "On the road again....Can't wait to be on the road again..."
They are HUGE investments. Very expensive to own and operate plus knowing how to drive a bus. I can only imagine the fuel economy (for lack of a better word).
Top priority in buying/operating/using an RV of this size: You MUST be able to troubleshoot and perform general maintenance! If you can’t do this or be willing to: forget it! Also, you will experience a major failure at some point. Secondly - the more “technical/electrical” stuff you have. It will eventually break!!
I hate that for these folks. When she said, “this is the most expensive home I’ve ever lived in”, tells me that these folks have worked their entire lives to be able to afford a luxury item like this. RV manufacturers are great at presenting you a beautiful exterior package. But as we all know, it’s what’s inside that matters. I personally have known for years to NEVER purchase a Thor Industries product. We’ve all heard the saying “too big to fail”. THOR is “Too Big To Care”!
Thor makes all Cruise America motorhomes. Maybe "don't buy overpriced half a million dollar motorhome" is more appropriate. I've broken even on all my Majestics over the years.
Hopefully your channel is about to become exactly what the RV industry needs in order to get straightened out. I hope you become like the Consumer Reports of RVs.
My parents were RVers. They started out originally with a tent trailer before working their way up through a series of house trailers, 5th wheels and van conversions and eventually to a class C and then got out of the hobby altogether. Why? Because they found that without fail, the newer the unit, the bigger it was, the more elaborate it was, the more expensive it was, the more features and options it had, the bigger the pile of rolling junk it was. And my dad was probably the handiest handyman who ever lived. There was nothing he couldn't fix. We used to joke that he could probably diagnose and rebuild the space shuttle. But it got to the point that he was spending more time fixing the damned things than traveling in them. At one time, I planned on being an RVer too in my retirement but my parents' experience along with the exposure I had to modern RVs from being a driver trainer and also a hauler of them convinced me that I want no part of them.
What a sad state of affairs. I have never wanted to dive into the RV world thankfully. I spend my money taking several trips a year and live in a regular home. What a mess for these poor folks.
Thank you for the info. Thor was a top pick for us. We are moving on elsewhere. It's a shame when a company tries to make a wrong a right when they start getting bad publicity. I've dealt with a home builder who responded the same way. Thor is scratched of our list. Thanks again!
I sure hope this is a wakeup call for Thor, Chris. Thanks for watching and see you in my latest video in this series right here: th-cam.com/video/4vRqCaby70E/w-d-xo.html
We had an RV Trailer for years. Had very few problems with it. Dealer we bought it from was great working with to resolve a few issues. Thousand Trails membership. We had some of the best years of our lives camping with our daughters and our Camping Club.
This is awesome on how you are using your channel! Hopefully, so many who are being wronged by their deal will finally get some help! Thanks for doing this!
I appreciate all of these RV owners sharing their stories. Seems like 2019 these RV companies lost their work force and then hired back unskilled labor to work on these RV's. What a nightmare. I feel so sorry for this couple (and all the people that have done interviews). Wishing this couple all the best. BOB MARTIN GIVE THESE OWNERS A CALL & APPOLIGIES!! ASAP!!
Well, something definitely's got to change, Jan, because what they are doing is unsustainable. They can't keep putting out such poor quality and expect to stay in business. Thanks for watching and stay tuned.
@@LizAmazing Agreed. People will just start building their own campers, tiny homes & van converstions themselves so they have control over the build. The issues with some of these older style parts (tail lights etc) on these new Coaches is that when these new parts fail what do these owners do then. by then they might not be able to find a part. If I was these owners I would buy back up parts so they have parts down the way. This happens all the time with cars designs. I had a part in a car that I could not find for the AC. I called everywhere. could not find the part. the dealership could not find the part. I finally gave up. The car was not that old. Same with family members cars. They redesign everything and do away with manufacturing parts so you buy a new car/rv. they run a con. nothing last like in the old days.
Ask yourself wth*ll is Thor doing putting in ‘discontinued’ (old- in year they were last manufactured parts) tail light fixtures in a brand new RV??? Like Thor has got people calling around looking for cheap discontinued parts?? Cause that is exactly what it sounds like to me! 😳🍻
Liz, I’ve been a subscriber for a while, and I love your channel. This series you are filming to call out these bad RV manufacturers for their poor build quality and bad service is exactly what the industry needs right now. What they’re doing to consumers by raising the prices so high and building with such poor quality is borderline illegal. We need more videos like this to educate the public. Please keep these coming! Hoping for positive change in this industry, and with people like you helping others share their stories, it’s only a matter of time. Thanks Liz! ❤
My husband was a collision center manager most of his career. We were walking the campground, and he was pointing out the various truck and auto taillights manufacturers use in different configurations when designing Class A motor coaches. Our 2nd RV, a 5th wheel was so filled with problems, the dealer and regional service VP from Forest River agreed to send our brand new Fiver back to the factory for repair of a list of issues, but most importantly, missing and botched frame welding we only discovered when my husband was building tool storage in the basement and he moved the thin wall to attach some hooks. 4 weeks later our rig was returned to the dealership with nothing repaired. Their factory built 2x4 frames around the basement storage so the missing/ shoddy welding couldn't been seen upon opening the storage door. The factory rep gave us reassurances, if the shoddy/absent welding ever failed, they would cover repair to the rig's welding. (But the welding would have to fail first.) We argued a failure would most likely come during transit, and that could be potentially catastrophic safety concern for us and other travelers. They factory rep and regional managers just shrugged their shoulders, and said "not their problem." Hubby had repeated shouting matches and email correspondence with the dealership owner, regional manager, service manager, and factory customer service manager, before we realized they would do nothing to help us. We still have that RV, and the frame hasn't broken yet, but we still try to avoid other traffic on the roads and interstates just in case.
She won't help anyone but herself unfortunately. It's cheaper to for the RV's company's to operate this way and deal with a little fallout now and then.
@@jamesnelson6381 One outcome of Liz' vids and others is that the industry is facing a better informed consumer now. Sales have slowed and in the future many will be dependent on inspections, similar to housing. Working together, with tips from people like Liz, we can improve outcomes for consumers. There is more hope now than in the past 10 years.
Great video. I bought a used Class B RV 10 years ago as a test drive to learn about them. I fully thought it would just be temporary just to fIgure out what I really wanted. But I had so many problems, and the total lack of qualified and trusted mechanics that could work on RVs made me change my mind. I have learned to work on it myself, and since I think I finally fixed everything, and can fix it when it breaks in the future, and I do not trust RV makers, I have decided just to keep my little Class B.
Enjoying your videos on problems with RVs. I am 73 and skilled in welding, electrical and mechanical systems. Not a finished carpenter. I tent camped, and had a used trailer while working. Got a used 2001 Four Wheel Camper Hawk when I retired. Great campers and well built. Then purchased a 6 month old Four Wheel Camper Shell model. Did a full build out just the way I wanted. Used several years but wanted more comfort. 2020 we started looking at a "B" van. Hard to find in 2020 but we found a 2020 Thor Sequence new in LA CA. Purchased over the phone. Went to pick up and found a few problems that I was told would be taken care of. Long story short we spent the night at the dealer to have the problems fixed the next day. Over night we found more problems. When I told the tech working on the van the other problems he said I would need to make an appointment and bring it back. I said I would call my attorney first. Then the tech stop working and left. I had paid cash and was sure I had been ripped off. My attorney said IF I had not left the lot, and I did not, I could get my money back. Credit to the sales manager who showed up next. He asked if I had driven on the street and I said no. He then said if we are not happy we could get our money back. It took 6 week to get the money back. Several months later we found a new 2021 Coachmen Beyond 22C on a lot. After 3 years we are happy with the van. Still had several issues than needed to be fixed. Coachmen's response has been good. My dealer not so good. To change the battery took over 3 weeks WTF. I think all RV manufacturers lack any QC. And dealers do not do any pre delivery inspection.
I have a 2008 Gulfstream Kingsport, and I love it! No trouble with it what so ever yet. Very well built, but not a light weight trailer like they make now. I pull it with a 2014 GMC 2500HD diesel, which pulls it great.
My wife and I are retired and a couple years ago started considering buying an RV. We attended a couple RV shows and what struck me was how cheap the materials used in the interiors were, and how poor the construction quality was. And it was the same regardless of the price point. They looked very good from a distance, but when you start poking and prodding they just seemed like they were built by workers that had no pride in their workmanship. Since then I've watched countless hours of videos such as this one that has really convinced me that RV's are not worth it. Why would I want something that I'm going to have to wait six months to get fixed for something they did, or more likely didn't do? I get it that people love their RV and it's only the people that have the 'rare' problem that take the time to post about it. But when there are literally hundreds of YT videos describing shoddy workmanship and zero support from the dealer once you drive it off the lot, something is seriously wrong with the industry. Surely there is some RV manufacturer out there that knows that there are customers that are willing to pay a premium amount just to get something that they can be confident isn't going to fall apart or break down. Do you have to spend $1 million in order to get quality workmanship and have dealer and factory support you can count on? I know people will continue to purchase RV's, and I say more power to them. I can't help but think, however, there are a few people like me that are just not willing to invest that amount of money in a rolling piece of junk.
I agree. If you have this type money than, you need to use common sense. Most of my friends don’t have 400k to put in a RV. Much easier to get a hotel Or just travel in a nice conversion van. These RVs are made so cheap and the material is a joke. The RV game is for the RV when it comes to Class A diesels. Now they are mad at a company that could careless because they sell tons of RVs. They don’t care about someone having these problems. They know that people with this type of money will continue to buy. All RV service centers are packed with RVs. Just my two cents.
Consider a yacht, power or sail. 8 out of 10 are built to last 50 plus years, by craftsmen who care about what they're doing, verses guys putting in time for $10/ hour. The designs are always well engineered, usually by independent designers with industry name recognition, and the materials, fiberglass, hardwoods, aluminum, marine ply, and stainless steel will always outlast particle board, interior plywood and raw steel. Most boats will go thru a refit after 30 years, major engine work, paint, interior upholstery, systems upgrading by the owner, most RV after 30 years are disposed of as not worth putting further money into and sold for maybe 10% of their original cost to people who think they're getting a bargain, not understanding the money pit they've just purchased.
Thank you, Liz. Your videos are amazing! You have totally convinced me that I will stay in five star hotels then to buy an expensive RV which my wife wanted
I give huge credit to anyone who owns an RV or a pool. Both are on my no fly list, but I love the idea of both! I appreciate this channel and everything you do!
I've always wanted to live in an RV since I could remember because I've never been the kind of person that likes a big ole house and I wanna be on wheels exploring and going places as I choose while living in that same place on wheels. Unfortunately, I'm broke and definitely can't afford 1 of these and most likely will never be able to and even my credit sucks if I did want to get 1 but I'm not paying the high ass payments they would want on them things anyways,there is no way.
Pools are awesome! They aren't difficult or expensive. If you have a family you probably save money. I wouldn't do an above ground model but a decent in ground pool with a solar heater is amazingly cheap and easy.
Oh Randy!!! Thanks so much. I am thrilled that Thor stepped up and I am happy to be an advocate to bring about much needed change in the RV industry! Love and hugs to you right back!
I think I get tired of hearing the manufacturer become "upset and appalled" at their obvious quality issue, but I never hear that their quality assurance manager for that coach was fired. Thanks for putting out these videos.
I'm a retired car dealer. I spent 38 years selling mostly used cars. Made an honest living in an industry that was about 30% shady. The best slick salesmen often leave the car business and go to RV's. Commissions are larger, hours are better and you can go south in the winter and return north in the summer.
Now that we are early into our retirement years my wife and I have talked about RV ownership. Here is our take on this: Why would anyone want to take all their housework with them? Why? Why? Why? Why would anyone want to risk having their entire trip ruined by a mechanical breakdown such as a transmission? This couple could stay in a nice resort or hotel for one thousand nights for the cost of their lemon.
I totally agree. I retired 4 years ago and my wife and I thought we would buy a motorhome and see the country. Sounds awesome huh? I was skeptical about the experience. So we purchased an older motorhome in excellent condition, low miles. Never had any big issues. However, driving was stressful and a white knuckle experience on interstates. Finding campsites was an issue, always jam packed. It was a lot of work and not a pleasant experience. The final nail in the coffin was a weird brake failure while driving to my lake property. Luckily, I made it there. That's where it sits permanently as a weekend home for us. I'm done with RVing . I'm done being a glutton for punishment. Rather stay in a luxury hotel, go on a cruise, fly first class. And I'm not dealing with driving a monstrosity thinking I'm living the dream. Not!
@@Ocean_breezes We agree. On a related topic, I have a friend who retired several years ago. He lives in Newport Beach CA (we live in suburban San Diego). His dream was to own a sizable boat. They cost up to a $million. He has a friend who invited them to go out to sea on a private boat. The boat broke down off the coast of San Francisco. It had to towed. The bill for the tow and the repairs was $75,000! My friend then said, “Never mind!”
Beds and bathrooms that haven't been used by thousands of people? Not having random minimum wage people with access to my living quarters? If a trip is ruined because I have to stay in a hotel why would I choose that option every single time?
@@Ocean_breezes I totally understand you not wanting the RV experience anymore, that sounds like a terrible experience. However, its not RV or Hotels and Cruises. Theres a whole world of smaller camping setups that work a million times better and the only drawback is it isnt literally the size of a house on wheels. But even smaller slide in campers, pop up campers etc give you lots of the luxuries without the headaches. Yea you might not have as big of a place, but thats also a positive, because now youre capable offroad, which makes you able to find empty places to camp in dispersed camping areas, and youre much more reliable. Basically what im saying is, a truck with a decent sized slide in camper makes way more sense to me than any RV. And you can buy so many different types and sizes of camper based on offroad vs comfort requirements. I just finished building my own pop up camper for my truck and it literally feels like a house on wheels now and it cost me $2500 to build. You dont need an RV but i wouldnt ditch camping all together. Sure hotels and cruises and flying can be fun, which you can still do, but dont bail on the amazing type of travel that is hitting the road and knowing you have a comfortable place to sleep waiting for you everywhere you go. Sorry for the rant, lol
Liz very good presentation. These problems are present in all RV’s whether a motorhome, fifth wheel or any other type regardless of cost. I bought a new fifth wheel in 2014. The problems and workmanship were terrible and the factory could have cared less. Now I tell people that most RV’s should have the motto “design by idiots, build by drunks”.
This is unreal! One problem is the lack of skilled labor. I was looking into taking an RV tech course just to be certified because I can do everything anyway . Ran across a forum post where a community college had to stop offering the RV tech course and you can’t imagine why. They said they would start a new semester course and within a week local rv dealers and manufacturers would hire students straight out of the program to train because there is such a shortage.
After spending that kind of money, I wouldn’t have thought an inspection would be necessary but I couldn’t be more wrong. He made a good point about rain coming in the slides. Would an inspector have caught that? Do they spray the sides with water? The screws through the roof is appalling and incompetent! Their PDI should have caught that. This story was even more disturbing than your other ones. No wonder Thor has such a bad reputation.
Hi Cecilia. No I don't think any inspector sprays the slides with water. Honestly, with these past two vidoes I made, they all should go through some kind of car wash! And I give Thor credit for stepping up and wanting to make this right for Sharon and Jeff. I'll keep you posted for sure. Have a great weekend!
I agree that it's appalling, especially after spending that kind of money for a new coach, as our 15 year old Tiffin, which has a fibreglass roof (of which I wash & wax) is still in wonderful shape! I annually check it over, and apply sealant in any area that seems like it could use some, and we have had zero roof issues thankfully.
@@LizAmazing ---I feel that Thor only "stepped up" after they saw that you have almost 100K viewers on your (wonderful) YT channel and they decided they didn't want the bad PR.
I had a Four Winds with a similar windshield and it always leaked. I would recommend avoiding any RV with the curved glass wind screens - they almost never seal properly and and torsional twist on the RV (which can’t be avoided on uneven ground) forces the windscreen to break the seals. I now always look for designs where the windscreen is more or less flat and surrounded by a frame.
Liz did a video about a Four Winds victim. It leaked everywhere and became mold infested. He traded his new disaster in on a (sigh) Thor. So, he jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.
Great video Liz! We have a 2017 Tiffin 40IH coach and so far we have had no major issues so far. The issues that we have faced were supported by Tiffin with no questions/issues. Now that Thor has bought Tiffin, every owner is not happy with this. The changes we've seen at Tiffin in Red Bay, AL are not customer focused nor are met with support from the community.
I purchased a Thor Tranquility from LaMesa RV in Sacramento a couple of years ago. It was a fraction of the cost of what you folks have spent. I truly feel your pain. The poor build quality was apparent from the minute I left the dealership, only to be outdone by LaMesa's nonexistent customer service. The more time passed the more I realized I got hosed. I sincerely hope you have better luck resolving your poor build quality issues than I did. Luckily karma was on my side and I ended up rolling the van for a total loss.
Thanks for the video I was thinking about buying a Thor motorhome and this video changed my mind I can’t stand companies that don’t stand behind their products and especially ignore their customers when they have issues
I'm pleased to report that our 28yo Monaco Dynasty we bought back in June has been serving us very well. Most of the repairs have just been deferred maintenance items really, and things that you would expect to be bad at almost 30 years old. We did get nearly 5 weeks of camping out of this season, and best of all my wife likes the RV lifestyle even more than I thought she would, Enjoy your work, keep up the crusade.
02 Newmar Dutch star I've owned since 2005 and zero issues. I do maintenance and has never once let me down and also pull 26' enclosed trailer behind it.
This is why my second RV is a class-B. It’s built on a RAM promaster with very little of the ‘fancy’ things. The more ‘things’ you have, the more probable things can break.
That’s why I live in a shack. In all seriousness, having more components shouldn’t haven given them this much hell. I mean the windshield and taillights are not extravagant and extra pieces.
Thanks for the video! I was never going to buy an RV and now that I've seen all the ways they are broken before they are driven off the lot, there's no way I'd lose all of my money on an RV.
It's the new ones that seem to be the ones with the problems, Greg. Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2019 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching.
I'm looking at doing a school bus conversion now after seeing so many disaster stories on the big expensive coaches. Like everything else in today's world, If you want something right, you have to do it yourself.
I converted a toy hauler for weekend travel. My Ram 1500 with 5.7 gets 17mpg without trailer and 10mpg pulling trailer 60mph. Far cheaper maintenance and repairs as needed. School bus conversions may have insurance difficulties. Limitations at RV camp might be prohibitive. Many will not allow anything but 10 year and newer RVs. Johnny Cash daughter died in a bus conversion due to carbon monoxide poisoning. I do not like propane use inside any living space. I carry gen in truck bed and propane bottles on trailer tongue. Tires are far cheaper than bus tires and can buy them most anywhere. RVs are a rolling bucket of headaches with embarrassingly bad quality.
Manufacturers do watch these videos Liz. There was a British couple that had an Entegra with drive problems. After they posted several videos of the ongoing problem, several people said in the comments section that they were going to cancel or not look at Entegras anymore. Entegra contacted them directly and flew techs out to finally fix it.
Welcome to the club !! We bought a brand new 2015 Itasca Sunstar, the first two years all we did was correct the little things the manufacturer never did. We only had a few error free times. This last summer after going over the Rockies for the 6th time something in the motor blew. The repair bill was said to be close to 30,000 to repair and they would have the new engine in 4-6 weeks. It only had 36,000 miles on it we changed the oil probably 5 times before the motor blew. We sold it as is and got 15k We paid 105k. Very disappointed in the quality that these things made with. We started telling our friends “Just say NO to Winnebago”
You're doing everyone a great service by bring awareness of the customer service and build issues with the manufactures. The best thing is you getting the manufactures to step up. Thanks for these videos Liz.
SPEECHLESS! I love knowing he's a Electronical Engineer and he can't be fooled 👍 Liz you really have the smartest fans and followers! Keep this series going for us please🙏
I learned everything about my large sailboat. The prop engine to fiberglass repairs. I’m currently getting tips on motor home engine repairs before buying one. Rebuilding alternator to major engine repair. Doing the repairs yourself will guarantee you better results.
Wow. I have to salute the owners and I sympathize with their pain. Our new RV hasn't been nearly as problematic, but I had to chuckle that he had to engineer his own module. I'm an EE too, and I was amazed that one of the USB power ports in our 2023 Wolf Pup wasn't working from the factory. Pulled it out, and it turns out nobody stripped the wires when they put them in the wiring connector. So, our third time out in it I'm taking it apart at the campground and stripping wires with my pocket knife so the power ports are working.
@@LizAmazing You're welcome! Just found your channel. I'd be happy to e-mail you a list of our issues if you'd find it helpful for your channel. We still love our new camper, but I'm glad I'm a handy person to correct the build quality.
This is why people are doing their own bus conversions. 🙂 I’m renovating a prevost for a client that’s 30 years old. His biggest concern dumbing the systems down. After owning it for 3 years he’s realized all the “bells and whistles” are just more things to fail 🙃
Exactly, that's where I am. The simpler the better. It went on 5 long trips barebones, and that completely changed how it's turning out now. Still not done, lol
I remember knowing a good mechanic who’s personal cars were all older with a lot of miles and very few automatic or power features, but they operated like new. He knew better than to buy the things that fail.
You are performing a great service for those who have been stuck with these junk RV's and also providing warnings to those who may be interested in purchasing some of these shoddy units. Keep it up and ignore those detractors who can't appreciate the value of what you provide!
Wow, my husband told me to start watching your videos to see just how lucky we were to choose a 2007 Diesel Class A that he knew how to Upgrade, it is no longer a TourMaster... it's a MikeMaster! Best to you, cyber hugs.
Can't thank you enough Liz for covering this much needed consumer protection issue. I'm old enough to remember when the local news media would do these expose's on various businesses. Sadly that has disappeared.
Aww, thanks Ellis! I am thrilled to be making a difference and helping Sharon and Jeff get the service they deserve. Thanks for watching and for your kind words!
I've heard a lot of RV horror stories, and i concluded it's better to just stay in hotels. If you invested 400k in a mutual fund, you could stay at a Hilton every night for 10 years.
It appears to me that these companies have very very poor quality control. They don’t need to somehow probably because of little real competition and the giant company lobby that runs the cartel in Indiana. Today’s automakers have some issues but you will never see the egregious errors that you see in the RV industry. They are cheaply made with cheap untrained labor and have little quality checklists and don’t have any tear apart quality control program. It’s just horrible and appalling. Just another reason to stay in hotels or rent an RV.
I've never owned an RV, I can only do minor maintenance in my house. These are the horror stories that stop me from even renting an RV. Hope things go well for the couple.
Hi Ron. Yeah this series is sobering for sure. Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2019 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching.
Thank you Liz and you are AMAZING. We can't wait to meet you one day. These are so heartbreaking, but so necessary to show. I have a 2024 Montana 295RL and I've only had 2 issues so far (knowing full well I should have ZERO issues), and one was a water issue OF COURSE. We really need to have laws passed to hold these manufacturers liable, and the C level people personally responsible. Thanks again!
What a heart breaker. Thank you so much for your service to the RV community. My wife and I are new subscribers. We bought a 2004 Tiffin Phaeton in July of this year, and we love it. We watched your videos before we went RV shopping and we believe you have steered us away from a minefield of trouble and woe. Keep up the great work.
Hi you two! Welcome to the channel and thank you so much for moving me closer to 100k subscribers!!! So glad you've got a good one, yeah 2004 was a good year for RVs. Thanks so much for your support and kind words.
I am not surprised to hear about all these issues with their new coach. We are newbies and purchased our used RV in Dec 22. My brother recommended an RV inspector. He found a few small issues that were not a deal breaker for us. We were surprised to learn that our black and gray tank gauge wires are reversed. Lol. But with that said, the inspector told us not to purchase any RV manufactured mid 2020 or newer. He says with the pandemic so many people started buying RV and travel trailers that the manufacturer quality declined greatly to meet the demand. I have two friends that did purchase new and both have had so many issues. It’s truly sad to hear these stories of problems when we just want to explore and enjoy the great USA.
Very good advice these days, thanks for this. Not a good time to buy new but a used quality one is a good choice. Stay tuned for tomorrow's video with happy buyers raving about a new quality built RV. Thanks for watching.
I have a friend in transport industry that moves these Thor coaches to dealers for several years. He delivers them & returns them back to factory. Lots of major issues!! Even trim parts falling off before he gets to dealer that ordered them. Save your money!!
I live in a 36ft RV full time. I bought it used, when the rainy season came, I had a leak dripping from the air-conditioner in the back bedroom, after removing that air-conditioner and putting in new gaskets it still leaked. After removing it and putting a cover over it, still had a leak there! Finally found the problem, it was the antennas leaking on the front of the roof ! 14:44
What? Oh my goodness. Thanks for sharing this. Here’s the rest of the story in the update, and thanks for watching: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpca/w-d-xo.html
We had an inspection on our used RV once. Unfortunately it was in house and totally useless. Glad to hear you might be getting some action! You paid good $$$, now Thor needs to deliver!
Pretty please also find out WHY THESE COACHMAN MANUFACTURE ARE NOT INSTALLING SPARE TIRES ON their new RVs .It would be a nightmare if a family had a flat on middle of the road ,let's say San Antonio traffic hour, or 610 in Houston ,how about middle of nowhere USA . Please make them answer why are they installing paper thin plastic instead of solid moulding on Freelander .Mine flew off in the middle of San Antonio while while traveling across Texas , Miguel Negrete 10-28-23 . Don't sign until you are sure all question are answerd.
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Liz, thank you so much for doing this. Someone needed to shine the light for sure. I bought a 2022 Braxton Creek free solo Romo - not an expensive unit but I can't even begin to tell you the nightmare that I went through that took almost a year for Braxton Creek to finally make repairs on a brand new unit. The main problem that they finally got repaired was a water leak basically on the back third of the unit where the entire back wall was buckled and bubbled. Thanks again for everything you do. Keep shining your light.
@@karenmanleyrealestatesales1552 Wow, so glad they finally got it done for you. And thank you for your kind words!
I just emailed you my experience I shared here
this is what I call a "RWPP" moment
Rich White Person Problem!!😂😂😂😂
I'm white btw😊
they spent 400 grand on this thing, these people aren't very bright. They had it coming.
Once Thor realized they had a PR disaster on their hands, they began to care. How touching.
RV quality has gone down hill every year.
@@South_Affylike everything, as the demand increases, the workers making them have been pushed to work harder/faster or less skilled workers have been added to production, and the quality is the first thing that slips.
Is their any warranty ?
@@carloschu7127There had better be for that kind of money. Costs more than my house.
@@carloschu7127 I know people who own RVs. The warranty is VERY spotty. Aside from the poor build/assembly quality of the manufacturer there is an issue with the appliances. What often happens is that the RV manufacturer either states that the appliance warranty must be negotiated between the buyer and the APPLIANCE manufacturer. The RV manufacturers normally does not act as an intermediary and would likely just slow things down if they did. The appliance manufacturers may in turn claim that the fault was due to improper installation, voiding the warranty (i.e. a pissing match regarding a - stove, A/C, heater, refrigerator, TV, stereo, water heater, generator, control panel, oven, pump, etc.
Keep up the good work exposing a billion dollar scam company
We are listening. Thank you so much.
Why buy it after you did thev test drive ?
Great info! Thor is now crossed off our list of RV's!
I give them credit for stepping up and wanting to do right by Jeff and Sharon. But honestly, it seems like all the RV companies in Elkhart are putting out junk. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
@@LizAmazing _"I give them credit for stepping up and wanting to do right by Jeff and Sharon."_
*I don't.* Thor didn't do jack $#!+ until Jeff & Sharon took their story public on Liz Amazing's channel. That's no way to do business or to treat your customers. No customer should have to do that just to get their brand-new $400,000 RV brought into proper working condition! (The way it should've been in the first place!)
While you're at it, you should cross off all RV companies.
Nobody's building quality anymore
If you want a good RV, dont buy anything made after 2018.
ALL RVs are crossed off my list. Because you can’t find anywhere to park it. Plus 10 mpg! So there goes $100 every few hours.
@@Timbrock1000 2008 before DEF and the problematic emissions b s.
I just cancelled an appointment to look at a thor coach...I feel like I'm dodging a bullet here...thank you.
I wonder did you find someone to check the RV before you bought it ?
@@josiejung6751you can’t peel walls back to check. Just make sure it holds for a year off the line
@@josiejung6751
Sounds like he didn't buy the Rv.
Soon as Thor took over ,I left looking at anything they've made. Didn't you get an inspection done ???
I would recommend buying something that's built for travel - like a bus or box truck - and doing a custom conversion to suit your needs...
This video is making a do-it-yourself school bus conversion to motor home look like a better option.
Yes. Or we talk about an older bus chassis in the follow up: Here’s the rest of the story in the update, and thanks for watching: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpc/w-d-xo.html
It would be cheaper as well. Imagine building a $450,000 RV yourself. It would look like a masterpiece.
I got a renovated schoolie for sale ! Haha only 45k and it's a turbo diesel Cummings with an Allison 1000 transmission
@@breakingpoint2256 That sounds like the near perfect platform.
@@breakingpoint2256wait til your turbo fails. It will cost 15,000. Haha
I’ve watched other videos of a mechanic that worked on rvs and he basically said that you should buy one 3-4 years old. That’s basically how long it takes for the original owner to get all the issues resolved and give up!!
That's a good tip!
Smart !!
Plus it's loses ~35% of its value in those first 4-5 years before depreciation finally starts to level off... Don't assume what an inspector can and can't do, get an inspector!
@@HuddlesNCuddles
When Covid hit families bought boats & RV’s since they couldn’t fly or go on A cruise.
The RV industry was depleted.
Manufacturers beefed up production & filled acres of new product.
The world is controlled by the banking industry.
They determined that the value of new would control the future… dropping values on preowned.
An RV is A depreciating asset.
The preowned have taken A huge downfall on value for the last 3 years.
Taking A toll on consumers.
It’s sad.
I heard that from 2 rv mechanics also.
Steve Lehto, an attorney who specializes in lemon law, warns all potential RV buyers that RVs are not covered by lemon law. He has a number of horror stories about RV problems in which the dealer won't help and the RV may have to be taken to the manufacturer where it may sit for months without being worked on. The moral is " buyer beware" for all RVs/
I was wondering if someone would bring Steve's name up. He's made several videos regarding RV purchase and what to look out for. He also provides good "legal" advise that would best serve RV owners with problems. My guess is this company will string the owners along just enough such that the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act no longer applies (think it's 3 years / 36,000 miles)... then they will likely get ghosted permanently. If it were me, I would definitely contact a lawyer that specializes in this area. You may never need to use them... but at least you know your options before they run out.
Steve's Three Rules on RV's are,
#1 Do not buy an RV.
#2 Don't ever buy an RV.
#3 RV . . . No
Why people continue to buy these hunks of junk is beyond me
Was wondering about lemon law
@@Van_frederick What lemon law? Not for RV's.
Cannot imagine taking a vacation in one of these motor homes. If I have to cook our meals I’d much rather be in my own kitchen at home. Pulling one of those behemoths all over the country and hooking up all the gadgets at some campsite is not my idea of a fun time. You campers are a special breed and I admire you. You’ll find me at the Marriott.
Ditto for me. Rv’ing seems like a hassle! Give me a hotel room any day, pool, jacuzzi, bar, restaurant get up have breakfast and move on.
I love rving but I sure would agree with u if I hadn't got hooked by the rv bug 40 years ago
Well for an occasional vacation yep- I get that. But those of us that want to retire and travel part time or full time- to not have to pack and move constantly is great. But the quality is not what it used to be at all
Yeah I agree. To me camping is going fishing at a small lake sleep in a tent one night build a fire cook on a charcoal grill after 30 hours you’re done go home. It’s fun that way. Traveling across the states drive a big SUV visit cities hot spots eat at nice restaurants and sleep in a super hotel.
Wow! I watched the video and listened very carefully to them describe all the problems they had with a $400K vehicle and they’re some of the calmest people I’ve very seen in my lifetime under the circumstances. At least Thor responded and took action after a ton of backlash. Great video, thank you Liz.
Thank you much. Yeah, I think they had just given up. Note how much more animated Jeff was during the update. Looking forward to seeing what Thor does and doing a follow up. Thanks for watching
Sounds like a bad deal, I would never do business with that company again
600k
There were red flags before signing at the dealership! Sad, but why buy it w these red flags on the test drive. Sorry this happened to them
Red flags on test drive is a red flag not to purchase.
These RV manufacturers got away with so much during the pandemic, and now they can't get rid of the rigs. I just purchased a fifth wheel for 1/2 of what they were trying to sell it for last year, and also due to "lot rust" I had them fix multiple things that took nearly a month before accepting it for final purchase.
Great video and sorry for your experience. One would think at a 450k price point the service and support would be amazing!
smart. Good that you knew enough to see the issues. Most people dont
Oh My Gosh!!!! This RV stuff is a NIGHTMARE!!!!
I’m glad I’ve been watching these videos. My wife and I wanted to retire and buy an RV for our retirement and now I’m so glad I’ve been watching these videos and TOTALLY changed our minds about what we want to do when both of us are retired and it will NOT be RVing thank you!
I purchased an older RV from a friend after his dad passed away. I paid cash. What I've learned is that my RV is built like a tank. For example, my cabinet doors are made of solid wood as are the doors to the rooms. My furniture is made of thick leather not the fake leather that peels on every new RV . It's got some age lines on it and a few miles on the odometer, but nothing I can't correct or simply live with.
sounds heavy, I'd take netting or curtains over doors or cabinet doors. Fabric in general, less noise while on the move to.
New RV’s are rolling garbage heaps. It’s the old ones that were built with pride. Step inside a 2001 Itasca vs a 2023. You can tell where corners are now being cut.
@@tg8150 dont buy anything made past 2006
I live on a steel Motor Boat and my partner did all the interior and most of the exterior. When we bought it a surveyor said the work required was only 'cosmetic'. After, it almost sank coming back from Penzance (maiden voyage) we realised that was B.S. It actually required a major refit - fortunately my partner has been able to do most of the work otherwise we would have been in trouble. When we complained to the MCA about the surveyor (he was recommended on their site) they weren't interested. I did a bit of digging and found out the surveyor was a real crook - he'd been to prison for fraud and various other misdemeanors - taking passengers out to sea without the proper tickets etc etc. So getting an 'expert' in is no guarantee of a problem free purchase. Basically, do your homework, test drive everything and only pay your money when you are certain things are sound. However, I love our boat now and probably more so because of all the trials and tribulations. We named the boat Tenacious. You both have a good attitude so I'm sure you'll weather the storm. ✌️
@@nickm5419 What's up with that? It seems like we stopped advancing as a civilization about that time.
😮😮😮 I hate to see what's going to happen to a 40K camper. If they have this much trouble with a 450k one.
Liz you’re a treasure for helping these RV corporations find their integrity!
They aren't finding their integrity, as a matter of fact it's worse now than ever. The problem is people just keep lining up to buy this crap and the circle keeps going.
I agree, profits are king, however none repeat buyers will impact their bottom line eventually, so for us whom haven’t bought a new rig, pay attention and be stingy with your money, ask those difficult questions, like; do you have any recalls, better business bureau write ups and lemon law issues on this unit? Ask for references from current and past owners, if they refuse walk out!!!
I think you have confused rank fear with integrity.
We sold our 2018 RV last year and just started traveling to where we want to go and then rent a cabin. What a stress relief!! Seems like the last two RVs that I bought were built on Friday afternoon after they drank a 6 pack at lunch.
They don’t make rvs like they used to. My parents had a pop up that they bought in 1974… we used it ALL summer long for 20 years. Great build
LOL!
The rv building company near me is a always hiring new people lol
How many cabin rentals and hotel room charges does it take to add up to $450k?
@@cl5619 Waay more than I’ll ever use! We are actually liking our exit from the RV world. I do miss some of my favorite camping spots.
This report is stunning. What a shoddy RV.
I know it. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
We can totally relate to Sharon and Jeff’s issues. In 2017 we bought a Thor Aria 3601 and the first weekend we took it out it rained and we had about 3” of rain in all the storage bays. Long story short everything in that RV leaked when it rained. Thor took it back to factory for a month and the first day I got it home I washed it and again the water was running in with the slide out in the closed position. After fighting with them for two years we sued them and got a settlement from them and then got rid of the coach. We had a list of 40 things that needed repaired the first weekend we took it out. NEVER ANOTHER THOR PRODUCT. After hearing horrid stories from other Thor owners I could write a book. We are now the proud owner of a Fleetwood product. We are on our 6th class A so we aren’t new to this camping thing. Good luck to all Thor owners. They sent field techs to my house 4 times and no results to the water issues just in case you was wondering.
I own a 2019 class C Thor Synergy 24’. From day one nothing but troubles. Roof leaked around roof window, both slide outs have been repaired numerous times. Shower leaked around the base shower pan. Many, many smaller things, as you said caulking etc. all inferior either done by morons or on purpose. Every trip is ruined by something not operating correctly. This RV spent over three months off and on at the dealer service department before initial warranty expired. Over the years I have had mobile RV techs fix the major things that were done wrong in manufacture of this LEMON. I have put my complaints in writing to the Dealer where I purchased and Thor the manufacturer to no avail. This is my 7th RV in 25 years and I can truly say “I cannot see how THOR remains in Business”! NEVER another RV that THOR has anything to do with.
LOL If you're rollin' in a Class A, you're not "camping".
Clearly a complete garbage company and product. Wow.
I shared your pain. We retired and bought a Heartland " Bighorn" 40 foot fifth wheel 3610 RE. Right from the first day till the last day we owned it was a true nightmare. Broke our hearts and will never own another RV ! Absolute junk !
Some field techs are going to get replaced it sounds like.
Don’t own an RV (yet) but have watched your channel for a couple of years. This is a great service you are doing for people (and the industry overall).
Thank you!!! Here’s the rest of the story in the update, and thanks for watching: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpca/w-d-xo.html
I’ve a friend with a Prevost coach that’s been on the road a lot over its life… very hi end unit. It spent a month in a Prevost repair facility near Daytona to repair and replace a few items with the final bill coming to a bit over $10,000.00. And still items didn’t work. I think there’s a total lack of quality control in the RV industry. You’re trying to create a home on wheels with all the amenities you’d find in a house, but in a moving vehicle bouncing over the hiways of America! Heck, we’ve got a government that’s broken, why not a RV!
I am in the process of buying an rv and your videos are truly a blessing
Buy an older unit. Not a Covid unit.
RENT.
What did you decide. Buy, or not buy????
A "blessing"? Like God told her to make videos about $1M motor homes? Get a grip!!
I would completely lose my mind if I paid half a miliion dollars for a coach and had these kinds of problems. Thank you for convincing me to NEVER buy one of these, from anywhere.
Says the guy who doesn't even have a have a half a million dollar house. Gotcha.
Watch her video of the 800k Tiffin and it will blow your mind.
@@imnitguy".. even have a have a half? Also regardless of income no one (except you) likes to buy something that was poorly made and prone to multiple failures making it largely inoperable. Gotcha.
Expecting a lot is a understatement. This is a lot of money we are talking about here. And you know it only cost a fraction of the price to make it.
A SMALL fraction!
This is the 3rd horror story I’ve heard about Thor.
One guy discovered that his brand new RV had the interior destroyed after a storm by a 4” diameter hole someone cut in the wrong place in the roof. Instead of fixing anything they just installed the AC so it hid the hole!
It gets even better… Thor refused to pay for anything that wasn’t part of the RV as delivered.
The guy who bought it had already put in his own upgraded mattress, pillows, clothes, etc and mold had destroyed it all thanks to the unbelievable laziness at Thor, and they refused to cover one cent.
There’s absolutely no way I would buy anything from that company unless they fired everyone now there, from the very top on down. They shouldn’t even be allowed to do business at this point.
I have decided not to buy anything after I have seen these stories over and over again, they don't care about you, all they care about is taking your money, why can't folks get it through their thick heads! I can't for the living daylights understand why people are continuing to purchase these pieces of junk! The industry is not going to change if folks keep buying these substandard products.
Their executives should be in prison.
I've heard nothing but BAD stories about Thor. Stay away from 2010 and newer rigs mostly garbage. Stay with Newmar, monaco, holiday rambler
We have a 2016 KZRV SportTrek 334 Touring Edition and it’s been for the most part flawless. Hasn’t been to the dealership since we towed it off the lot. Over 20k miles on it now ( east coast to west coast) and going strong. Can’t speak for their current products however. Shame to hear these horror stories. They are not inexpensive.
@@Scott-mu6fkwe got extremely lucky with our 2013 Keystone Fuzion. No issues thank goodness 🤞But seeing as their quality has increasingly worsened, I would never buy a new Thor product ever again.
This hit home because I retired over a year ago and was seriously considering buying a new RV just like this one ($400k+) but the quality problems changed my mind. Shame on the people responsible for the poor design/build quality. Take some pride in what you do.
If you do hire yourself an RV INSPECTOR AND CHECK HIS DOCUMSNTION,
Betcha the rv manufacturers are hiring low cost border jumper labor 8 bucks an hour.
buy a used one and a vacation beach condo in Mexico
@@miguelnegrete8883 That's the problem. I personally know a licensed RV inspector. MOST of the time, the new RV's fail inspection. And that's just the first 100 point of inspection. THEN the customer will push them for recommendation for another brand. However, it's hit and miss. It's like a Ford owner who asks you, a Toyota owner, and that Fords owner buys a Toyota, and it didnt work for the buyer. Then it makes you a bad guy. He just tells them to do research (obviously) because it's a LOT of money to own one.
@slay2525 - "rich"...it's all relative. It seems to me that if designed correctly, and built with quality in mind, they'd be a lot safer. Either way, this post retirement plan has been scrapped.
Wow. Those poor people! What huge headaches and heartaches! What surprises me is that they spoke about it so calmly. I hope Thor not only fixes their concerns, but re-vamps their quality control department. That’s plain and simply shoddy workmanship. I’m glad throwing your weight around Liz, (😊) may help this couple. Stay safe and best wishes!
Awww, thanks Theresa! I sure appreciate you being here for the whole journey! I think they were so calm because they felt so dejected by the whole experience. Note how Jeff was much more animated during the update. I'm sure hoping Thor turns this mess around. Have a great weekend and see you next time!
"re-vamps their quality control..." HAHAHA!!!! there IS NO quality control!!!! so there's nothing TO re-vamp!!!!
@@jessstone7486 What's worse is when Thor bought Airstream some time back, I was thinking Airstream would be going downhill as well...even though BEFORE that Airstream was having too many QC issues.
It's really hard to find a QUALITY RV maker, as most RV-makers are Crap-makers. Even if they're "above average" quality-wise, THAT isn't saying much.
Overall, it seems to me that the Canadian RV makers are better, not only in quality (fit&finish/materials used) but also possibly their warranties are better, too.
I DO like the small Class A Thor makes, mainly due to its smaller size (unlike most Class As) but the problem is that THOR makes them. No thanks... ;-)
-- BR
They have have had crap QE/QA for quite some time. This won't change a thing.
My brother owns a 1 year old 38’ Jaco class A and has multiple problems. Major cabinet problems, heater needed repairs, outside steps are zipped tied up so they can travel, plumbing issues and cab A/C not working 5:15 and many other issues. Thor also owns Jaco.
I don't own a trailer or RV, but these videos are an eye opener on the industry and hopefully leading to changes!
Just as slimer as car dealerships. Always test n inspect before buy
Lemon law does not apply to RVs. You're never going to get these issues addressed without regulation. It's sad that we need the gov. to intervene, but there ya go.
@@bellonamars2541 depends on which ur in but most states absolutely have lemon laws n exactly same as cars. U absolutely r wrong where the hell do u get ur info?
Mass RV industry is so shady. Nothing is built to last because they assume these are impulse buys people are making and they'll get tired of them after a couple of years and sell them when they stop using it. I'm especially skeptical of the big gigantic expensive RVs. All the bells and whistles are just more things that could potentially break or go wrong.
The quality of RVs has been crap for years and years. As Steve Lehto the Michigan lawyer stated, never buy a new RV.
It was the long screws going through the roof that did it for me, that's way beyond a genuine mistake, it looks deliberate.
I'd be demanding a full refund..
Naw its just kids competing with each other to see who gets more units done faster (more pay?) Had a friend, who in his youth was hired to build manufactured homes with his brother.
Hey Ms Liz. Keep hitting them hard. The RV industry has gotten away with crap for years. Safe travels and say howdy to P.
Never even been in an RV and not sure why TH-cam recommended this channel but I'm glad they did cause you're doing the lords work by trying to help these poor people that are trying to live their dream and get caught up with these situations. Keep up the grear work Liz!
Should not the LORD be handling this? I’m VERY concerned that the LORD is a shiftless lazy bones😂
But who would sink $450,000 in a camper? If you are a "full timer," it's almost a nomadic life style. Meet your neighbors on Monday - they are gone Tuesday morning. Try a nice Popup or, better yet, how about a nice tent? Now that's the way "to camp." "On the road again....Can't wait to be on the road again..."
@@dontgettoknowm9864 That's the Lord for you. Always having people do their work. Won't even show their face to tell us if we are doing a good job.
They are HUGE investments. Very expensive to own and operate plus knowing how to drive a bus. I can only imagine the fuel economy (for lack of a better word).
Thanks so much!!! Here’s the rest of the story in the update, and thanks for watching: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpc/w-d-xo.html
You are doing such important work- owners are no longer on their own! Thank you for your advocacy work!
Awww, thanks Bernard. Big hugs to you for your unwavering support along the way!
Took the words right outta my mouth! Well said!
Top priority in buying/operating/using an RV of this size:
You MUST be able to troubleshoot and perform general maintenance! If you can’t do this or be willing to: forget it! Also, you will experience a major failure at some point.
Secondly - the more “technical/electrical” stuff you have. It will eventually break!!
I hate that for these folks. When she said, “this is the most expensive home I’ve ever lived in”, tells me that these folks have worked their entire lives to be able to afford a luxury item like this. RV manufacturers are great at presenting you a beautiful exterior package. But as we all know, it’s what’s inside that matters. I personally have known for years to NEVER purchase a Thor Industries product. We’ve all heard the saying “too big to fail”. THOR is “Too Big To Care”!
I doubt it
Thor makes all Cruise America motorhomes. Maybe "don't buy overpriced half a million dollar motorhome" is more appropriate. I've broken even on all my Majestics over the years.
Hopefully your channel is about to become exactly what the RV industry needs in order to get straightened out. I hope you become like the Consumer Reports of RVs.
My parents were RVers. They started out originally with a tent trailer before working their way up through a series of house trailers, 5th wheels and van conversions and eventually to a class C and then got out of the hobby altogether.
Why? Because they found that without fail, the newer the unit, the bigger it was, the more elaborate it was, the more expensive it was, the more features and options it had, the bigger the pile of rolling junk it was.
And my dad was probably the handiest handyman who ever lived. There was nothing he couldn't fix. We used to joke that he could probably diagnose and rebuild the space shuttle. But it got to the point that he was spending more time fixing the damned things than traveling in them.
At one time, I planned on being an RVer too in my retirement but my parents' experience along with the exposure I had to modern RVs from being a driver trainer and also a hauler of them convinced me that I want no part of them.
What a sad state of affairs. I have never wanted to dive into the RV world thankfully. I spend my money taking several trips a year and live in a regular home. What a mess for these poor folks.
I live in a Chevy van, no conversion no insulation nothing built in. Removable generator heater bed fridge a/c
@@brandondeweil942
Down by the river? 🤔😂
@@lukewarme9121
Indian style 😂
Airstream
Never ever buy any thing Thor makes
I’ll just stick to the Thor movie instead
@@Dizzymarvelno, he can’t be trusted either
Ok boomer. Thor makes the Majestic / Four Winds 28 and 23A. Go teach yourself something and come back to the table.
@@CultofThings 😆😅🤣😂
Agree….👎
You've hit gold with this series and you'll finally make to 100K. Great job!
God bless you for helping other RV owners
Thank you much! Here's the rest of the story: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpc/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the info. Thor was a top pick for us. We are moving on elsewhere. It's a shame when a company tries to make a wrong a right when they start getting bad publicity. I've dealt with a home builder who responded the same way. Thor is scratched of our list. Thanks again!
I sure hope this is a wakeup call for Thor, Chris. Thanks for watching and see you in my latest video in this series right here: th-cam.com/video/4vRqCaby70E/w-d-xo.html
We had an RV Trailer for years. Had very few problems with it. Dealer we bought it from was great working with to resolve a few issues. Thousand Trails membership. We had some of the best years of our lives camping with our daughters and our Camping Club.
This is awesome on how you are using your channel! Hopefully, so many who are being wronged by their deal will finally get some help! Thanks for doing this!
Thanks so much Deb! I am thrilled to be making a difference. And kudos to Thor for stepping up and wanting to make it right. Thanks for being here!!!
I appreciate all of these RV owners sharing their stories. Seems like 2019 these RV companies lost their work force and then hired back unskilled labor to work on these RV's.
What a nightmare. I feel so sorry for this couple (and all the people that have done interviews). Wishing this couple all the best.
BOB MARTIN GIVE THESE OWNERS A CALL & APPOLIGIES!! ASAP!!
Well, something definitely's got to change, Jan, because what they are doing is unsustainable. They can't keep putting out such poor quality and expect to stay in business. Thanks for watching and stay tuned.
@@LizAmazing Agreed. People will just start building their own campers, tiny homes & van converstions themselves so they have control over the build.
The issues with some of these older style parts (tail lights etc) on these new Coaches is that when these new parts fail what do these owners do then. by then they might not be able to find a part. If I was these owners I would buy back up parts so they have parts down the way.
This happens all the time with cars designs. I had a part in a car that I could not find for the AC. I called everywhere. could not find the part. the dealership could not find the part. I finally gave up. The car was not that old. Same with family members cars. They redesign everything and do away with manufacturing parts so you buy a new car/rv. they run a con. nothing last like in the old days.
@@jansmith3158If they can't afford to build a tail light, they can't afford to repair it!
Ask yourself wth*ll is Thor doing putting in ‘discontinued’ (old- in year they were last manufactured parts) tail light fixtures in a brand new RV??? Like Thor has got people calling around looking for cheap discontinued parts?? Cause that is exactly what it sounds like to me! 😳🍻
There's an ole saying, ya buy crap, you get crap, but "NOT" at $450K..@@SpykersB
Liz, I’ve been a subscriber for a while, and I love your channel. This series you are filming to call out these bad RV manufacturers for their poor build quality and bad service is exactly what the industry needs right now. What they’re doing to consumers by raising the prices so high and building with such poor quality is borderline illegal. We need more videos like this to educate the public. Please keep these coming! Hoping for positive change in this industry, and with people like you helping others share their stories, it’s only a matter of time. Thanks Liz! ❤
450K highway robbery and the misery it causes for the buyer's is shameful
My husband was a collision center manager most of his career. We were walking the campground, and he was pointing out the various truck and auto taillights manufacturers use in different configurations when designing Class A motor coaches.
Our 2nd RV, a 5th wheel was so filled with problems, the dealer and regional service VP from Forest River agreed to send our brand new Fiver back to the factory for repair of a list of issues, but most importantly, missing and botched frame welding we only discovered when my husband was building tool storage in the basement and he moved the thin wall to attach some hooks.
4 weeks later our rig was returned to the dealership with nothing repaired. Their factory built 2x4 frames around the basement storage so the missing/ shoddy welding couldn't been seen upon opening the storage door.
The factory rep gave us reassurances, if the shoddy/absent welding ever failed, they would cover repair to the rig's welding. (But the welding would have to fail first.) We argued a failure would most likely come during transit, and that could be potentially catastrophic safety concern for us and other travelers. They factory rep and regional managers just shrugged their shoulders, and said "not their problem."
Hubby had repeated shouting matches and email correspondence with the dealership owner, regional manager, service manager, and factory customer service manager, before we realized they would do nothing to help us. We still have that RV, and the frame hasn't broken yet, but we still try to avoid other traffic on the roads and interstates just in case.
If you luv Liz, as much as I do, forward this for others to subscribe today. She is doing angels work for RVers and deserves a wider audience.
Agreed! This topic needs to be shared!
She won't help anyone but herself unfortunately. It's cheaper to for the RV's company's to operate this way and deal with a little fallout now and then.
@@jamesnelson6381 One outcome of Liz' vids and others is that the industry is facing a better informed consumer now. Sales have slowed and in the future many will be dependent on inspections, similar to housing. Working together, with tips from people like Liz, we can improve outcomes for consumers. There is more hope now than in the past 10 years.
Great video. I bought a used Class B RV 10 years ago as a test drive to learn about them. I fully thought it would just be temporary just to fIgure out what I really wanted. But I had so many problems, and the total lack of qualified and trusted mechanics that could work on RVs made me change my mind. I have learned to work on it myself, and since I think I finally fixed everything, and can fix it when it breaks in the future, and I do not trust RV makers, I have decided just to keep my little Class B.
Smart decision. Good for you!
yeah, my 1990 e350 looks like hell on the outside but still works perfectly.
Enjoying your videos on problems with RVs. I am 73 and skilled in welding, electrical and mechanical systems. Not a finished carpenter. I tent camped, and had a used trailer while working. Got a used 2001 Four Wheel Camper Hawk when I retired. Great campers and well built. Then purchased a 6 month old Four Wheel Camper Shell model. Did a full build out just the way I wanted. Used several years but wanted more comfort. 2020 we started looking at a "B" van. Hard to find in 2020 but we found a 2020 Thor Sequence new in LA CA. Purchased over the phone. Went to pick up and found a few problems that I was told would be taken care of. Long story short we spent the night at the dealer to have the problems fixed the next day. Over night we found more problems. When I told the tech working on the van the other problems he said I would need to make an appointment and bring it back. I said I would call my attorney first. Then the tech stop working and left. I had paid cash and was sure I had been ripped off. My attorney said IF I had not left the lot, and I did not, I could get my money back. Credit to the sales manager who showed up next. He asked if I had driven on the street and I said no. He then said if we are not happy we could get our money back. It took 6 week to get the money back. Several months later we found a new 2021 Coachmen Beyond 22C on a lot. After 3 years we are happy with the van. Still had several issues than needed to be fixed. Coachmen's response has been good. My dealer not so good. To change the battery took over 3 weeks WTF. I think all RV manufacturers lack any QC. And dealers do not do any pre delivery inspection.
The Eagles are here! You are one of them! Thank God for people like you who has the courage to stand up for people like us!
I have a 2008 Gulfstream Kingsport, and I love it! No trouble with it what so ever yet. Very well built, but not a light weight trailer like they make now. I pull it with a 2014 GMC 2500HD diesel, which pulls it great.
I think you Liz are doing RV’ers a giant service and I want to thank you.
Thanks so very much for your support, Marcus!
My wife and I are retired and a couple years ago started considering buying an RV. We attended a couple RV shows and what struck me was how cheap the materials used in the interiors were, and how poor the construction quality was. And it was the same regardless of the price point. They looked very good from a distance, but when you start poking and prodding they just seemed like they were built by workers that had no pride in their workmanship. Since then I've watched countless hours of videos such as this one that has really convinced me that RV's are not worth it. Why would I want something that I'm going to have to wait six months to get fixed for something they did, or more likely didn't do? I get it that people love their RV and it's only the people that have the 'rare' problem that take the time to post about it. But when there are literally hundreds of YT videos describing shoddy workmanship and zero support from the dealer once you drive it off the lot, something is seriously wrong with the industry. Surely there is some RV manufacturer out there that knows that there are customers that are willing to pay a premium amount just to get something that they can be confident isn't going to fall apart or break down. Do you have to spend $1 million in order to get quality workmanship and have dealer and factory support you can count on? I know people will continue to purchase RV's, and I say more power to them. I can't help but think, however, there are a few people like me that are just not willing to invest that amount of money in a rolling piece of junk.
Get a pre-2020 Airstream, keep it small, drive a fun tow vehicle and spend most of your time outdoors. And don't go full-time. You'll love it!
Thanks for that advice. Unfortunately, if we ever decide to buy one, it needs to be a toy hauler so Airstreams are out.
I agree. If you have this type money than, you need to use common sense. Most of my friends don’t have 400k to put in a RV. Much easier to get a hotel
Or just travel in a nice conversion van. These RVs are made so cheap and the material is a joke. The RV game is for the RV when it comes to Class A diesels. Now they are mad at a company that could careless because they sell tons of RVs. They don’t care about someone having these problems. They know that people with this type of money will continue to buy. All RV service centers are packed with RVs. Just my two cents.
Especially NEVER buy one at Camping World!!! You've been warned! They are swamped with Thor repairs...ask me how I know!!! LOL.
Consider a yacht, power or sail. 8 out of 10 are built to last 50 plus years, by craftsmen who care about what they're doing, verses guys putting in time for $10/ hour. The designs are always well engineered, usually by independent designers with industry name recognition, and the materials, fiberglass, hardwoods, aluminum, marine ply, and stainless steel will always outlast particle board, interior plywood and raw steel. Most boats will go thru a refit after 30 years, major engine work, paint, interior upholstery, systems upgrading by the owner, most RV after 30 years are disposed of as not worth putting further money into and sold for maybe 10% of their original cost to people who think they're getting a bargain, not understanding the money pit they've just purchased.
What an absolute nightmare. That couple is more than patient with the problem they have on their RV. Thanks for helping all of us Liz.
You are so welcome, James! Thanks for being here!!
Thank you, Liz. Your videos are amazing! You have totally convinced me that I will stay in five star hotels then to buy an expensive RV which my wife wanted
I give huge credit to anyone who owns an RV or a pool. Both are on my no fly list, but I love the idea of both!
I appreciate this channel and everything you do!
I've always wanted to live in an RV since I could remember because I've never been the kind of person that likes a big ole house and I wanna be on wheels exploring and going places as I choose while living in that same place on wheels. Unfortunately, I'm broke and definitely can't afford 1 of these and most likely will never be able to and even my credit sucks if I did want to get 1 but I'm not paying the high ass payments they would want on them things anyways,there is no way.
Pools are awesome! They aren't difficult or expensive. If you have a family you probably save money. I wouldn't do an above ground model but a decent in ground pool with a solar heater is amazingly cheap and easy.
@@ericmaclaurin8525 insurance problems. Nope
Liz, You have most certainly found your critical place in the RV world as an advocate for RV owners. People rely upon you. Much respect, my friend.
Oh Randy!!! Thanks so much. I am thrilled that Thor stepped up and I am happy to be an advocate to bring about much needed change in the RV industry! Love and hugs to you right back!
I think I get tired of hearing the manufacturer become "upset and appalled" at their obvious quality issue, but I never hear that their quality assurance manager for that coach was fired. Thanks for putting out these videos.
Exactly!
Aaah huh 👍🏻. 🍻
What quality assurance manager?
I'm a retired car dealer. I spent 38 years selling mostly used cars. Made an honest living in an industry that was about 30% shady. The best slick salesmen often leave the car business and go to RV's. Commissions are larger, hours are better and you can go south in the winter and return north in the summer.
Now that we are early into our retirement years my wife and I have talked about RV ownership.
Here is our take on this:
Why would anyone want to take all their housework with them? Why? Why? Why?
Why would anyone want to risk having their entire trip ruined by a mechanical breakdown such as a transmission?
This couple could stay in a nice resort or hotel for one thousand nights for the cost of their lemon.
I don't think the idea is bad but you need to know the risk. Its like a house but way more expensive to maintain and most are not built well.
I totally agree. I retired 4 years ago and my wife and I thought we would buy a motorhome and see the country. Sounds awesome huh? I was skeptical about the experience. So we purchased an older motorhome in excellent condition, low miles. Never had any big issues. However, driving was stressful and a white knuckle experience on interstates. Finding campsites was an issue, always jam packed. It was a lot of work and not a pleasant experience.
The final nail in the coffin was a weird brake failure while driving to my lake property. Luckily, I made it there. That's where it sits permanently as a weekend home for us. I'm done with RVing .
I'm done being a glutton for punishment.
Rather stay in a luxury hotel, go on a cruise, fly first class. And I'm not dealing with driving a monstrosity thinking I'm living the dream. Not!
@@Ocean_breezes We agree.
On a related topic, I have a friend who retired several years ago. He lives in Newport Beach CA (we live in suburban San Diego).
His dream was to own a sizable boat. They cost up to a $million.
He has a friend who invited them to go out to sea on a private boat.
The boat broke down off the coast of San Francisco. It had to towed.
The bill for the tow and the repairs was $75,000!
My friend then said, “Never mind!”
Beds and bathrooms that haven't been used by thousands of people? Not having random minimum wage people with access to my living quarters? If a trip is ruined because I have to stay in a hotel why would I choose that option every single time?
@@Ocean_breezes I totally understand you not wanting the RV experience anymore, that sounds like a terrible experience. However, its not RV or Hotels and Cruises. Theres a whole world of smaller camping setups that work a million times better and the only drawback is it isnt literally the size of a house on wheels. But even smaller slide in campers, pop up campers etc give you lots of the luxuries without the headaches. Yea you might not have as big of a place, but thats also a positive, because now youre capable offroad, which makes you able to find empty places to camp in dispersed camping areas, and youre much more reliable.
Basically what im saying is, a truck with a decent sized slide in camper makes way more sense to me than any RV. And you can buy so many different types and sizes of camper based on offroad vs comfort requirements. I just finished building my own pop up camper for my truck and it literally feels like a house on wheels now and it cost me $2500 to build. You dont need an RV but i wouldnt ditch camping all together. Sure hotels and cruises and flying can be fun, which you can still do, but dont bail on the amazing type of travel that is hitting the road and knowing you have a comfortable place to sleep waiting for you everywhere you go. Sorry for the rant, lol
Liz very good presentation. These problems are present in all RV’s whether a motorhome, fifth wheel or any other type regardless of cost. I bought a new fifth wheel in 2014. The problems and workmanship were terrible and the factory could have cared less. Now I tell people that most RV’s should have the motto “design by idiots, build by drunks”.
This is unreal! One problem is the lack of skilled labor. I was looking into taking an RV tech course just to be certified because I can do everything anyway . Ran across a forum post where a community college had to stop offering the RV tech course and you can’t imagine why. They said they would start a new semester course and within a week local rv dealers and manufacturers would hire students straight out of the program to train because there is such a shortage.
Wow, good grief!!! Thanks so much for your comment, and for watching.
Well guess you don't have to spend any money on an RV course anymore 🤣😂🤣
Great video, we bought new and have been repairing things ever since.
After spending that kind of money, I wouldn’t have thought an inspection would be necessary but I couldn’t be more wrong. He made a good point about rain coming in the slides. Would an inspector have caught that? Do they spray the sides with water? The screws through the roof is appalling and incompetent! Their PDI should have caught that. This story was even more disturbing than your other ones. No wonder Thor has such a bad reputation.
Hi Cecilia. No I don't think any inspector sprays the slides with water. Honestly, with these past two vidoes I made, they all should go through some kind of car wash! And I give Thor credit for stepping up and wanting to make this right for Sharon and Jeff. I'll keep you posted for sure. Have a great weekend!
I agree that it's appalling, especially after spending that kind of money for a new coach, as our 15 year old Tiffin, which has a fibreglass roof (of which I wash & wax) is still in wonderful shape! I annually check it over, and apply sealant in any area that seems like it could use some, and we have had zero roof issues thankfully.
The more you spend you need more inspection!
Dealer PDI stands for "Probably Didn't Inspect"
@@LizAmazing ---I feel that Thor only "stepped up" after they saw that you have almost 100K viewers on your (wonderful) YT channel and they decided they didn't want the bad PR.
I had a Four Winds with a similar windshield and it always leaked. I would recommend avoiding any RV with the curved glass wind screens - they almost never seal properly and and torsional twist on the RV (which can’t be avoided on uneven ground) forces the windscreen to break the seals.
I now always look for designs where the windscreen is more or less flat and surrounded by a frame.
Liz did a video about a Four Winds victim. It leaked everywhere and became mold infested. He traded his new disaster in on a (sigh) Thor. So, he jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.
Great video Liz! We have a 2017 Tiffin 40IH coach and so far we have had no major issues so far. The issues that we have faced were supported by Tiffin with no questions/issues. Now that Thor has bought Tiffin, every owner is not happy with this. The changes we've seen at Tiffin in Red Bay, AL are not customer focused nor are met with support from the community.
In general, I think the workmanship for RVs is something to be desired.
Yes, I hope that improves soon. Here’s the rest of the story in the update, and thanks for watching: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpca/w-d-xo.html
I purchased a Thor Tranquility from LaMesa RV in Sacramento a couple of years ago. It was a fraction of the cost of what you folks have spent. I truly feel your pain. The poor build quality was apparent from the minute I left the dealership, only to be outdone by LaMesa's nonexistent customer service. The more time passed the more I realized I got hosed. I sincerely hope you have better luck resolving your poor build quality issues than I did. Luckily karma was on my side and I ended up rolling the van for a total loss.
Good for you Liz! you're making a difference! keep us posted!
Thanks for the video I was thinking about buying a Thor motorhome and this video changed my mind I can’t stand companies that don’t stand behind their products and especially ignore their customers when they have issues
I am Sooo glad I bought an elderly coach with more than 100k miles on it. There seems to be an endless supply of horror stories about new RVs.
I'm pleased to report that our 28yo Monaco Dynasty we bought back in June has been serving us very well. Most of the repairs have just been deferred maintenance items really, and things that you would expect to be bad at almost 30 years old. We did get nearly 5 weeks of camping out of this season, and best of all my wife likes the RV lifestyle even more than I thought she would, Enjoy your work, keep up the crusade.
Aren't you the lucky one!!! Happy trails1
My 18 yr old Monaco is my pride and joy. I just want more travel time, 50 years of RVing and still loving it!
02 Newmar Dutch star I've owned since 2005 and zero issues. I do maintenance and has never once let me down and also pull 26' enclosed trailer behind it.
My 23 year old Monaco burned to a crisp and took the house along with it
@@tragedytrousers1769 Awful! So sorry.
Liz....your doing a great job at helping people by making them informed consumers
Thanks very much, Leonard. I do feel I am on a mission! Thanks for being here.
This is why my second RV is a class-B. It’s built on a RAM promaster with very little of the ‘fancy’ things. The more ‘things’ you have, the more probable things can break.
That was what I was thinking. Why would you need a dishwasher in an RV?
That’s why I live in a shack. In all seriousness, having more components shouldn’t haven given them this much hell. I mean the windshield and taillights are not extravagant and extra pieces.
As an owner of a 40ft, Diesel Pusher, I can sympathize with their plight. Actually on the phone with the mfg. today to replace the slide motor!!
I owned a Thor HUrricane and had nothing but troubles.... Good Luck
Oh goodness. So sorry to hear this. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update with Sharon and Jeff.
Atta girl, Liz! Hold these companies accountable! Long overdue! You’re an advocate for thousands of scorned folks! Good on you!!❤
Thanks for the video! I was never going to buy an RV and now that I've seen all the ways they are broken before they are driven off the lot, there's no way I'd lose all of my money on an RV.
It's the new ones that seem to be the ones with the problems, Greg. Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2019 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching.
Haha love this channel, snow birds venting
I'm looking at doing a school bus conversion now after seeing so many disaster stories on the big expensive coaches.
Like everything else in today's world,
If you want something right, you have to do it yourself.
expedition vehicle is better they are more robust..
I converted a toy hauler for weekend travel. My Ram 1500 with 5.7 gets 17mpg without trailer and 10mpg pulling trailer 60mph. Far cheaper maintenance and repairs as needed. School bus conversions may have insurance difficulties. Limitations at RV camp might be prohibitive. Many will not allow anything but 10 year and newer RVs. Johnny Cash daughter died in a bus conversion due to carbon monoxide poisoning. I do not like propane use inside any living space. I carry gen in truck bed and propane bottles on trailer tongue. Tires are far cheaper than bus tires and can buy them most anywhere. RVs are a rolling bucket of headaches with embarrassingly bad quality.
I’m a millennial and I love this lady just doing good work cheers!
Manufacturers do watch these videos Liz. There was a British couple that had an Entegra with drive problems. After they posted several videos of the ongoing problem, several people said in the comments section that they were going to cancel or not look at Entegras anymore. Entegra contacted them directly and flew techs out to finally fix it.
That's not good enough. They are only doing that bc they got caught. They should be making these things properly from the get go.
Welcome to the club !! We bought a brand new 2015 Itasca Sunstar, the first two years all we did was correct the little things the manufacturer never did. We only had a few error free times. This last summer after going over the Rockies for the 6th time something in the motor blew. The repair bill was said to be close to 30,000 to repair and they would have the new engine in 4-6 weeks. It only had 36,000 miles on it we changed the oil probably 5 times before the motor blew. We sold it as is and got 15k We paid 105k. Very disappointed in the quality that these things made with. We started telling our friends “Just say NO to Winnebago”
You're doing everyone a great service by bring awareness of the customer service and build issues with the manufactures. The best thing is you getting the manufactures to step up. Thanks for these videos Liz.
SPEECHLESS! I love knowing he's a Electronical Engineer and he can't be fooled 👍 Liz you really have the smartest fans and followers! Keep this series going for us please🙏
I learned everything about my large sailboat. The prop engine to fiberglass repairs.
I’m currently getting tips on motor home engine repairs before buying one.
Rebuilding alternator to major engine repair.
Doing the repairs yourself will guarantee you better results.
Wow. I have to salute the owners and I sympathize with their pain. Our new RV hasn't been nearly as problematic, but I had to chuckle that he had to engineer his own module. I'm an EE too, and I was amazed that one of the USB power ports in our 2023 Wolf Pup wasn't working from the factory. Pulled it out, and it turns out nobody stripped the wires when they put them in the wiring connector. So, our third time out in it I'm taking it apart at the campground and stripping wires with my pocket knife so the power ports are working.
Wow, that is so crazy about your Wolf Pup. So glad you could fix it. Thanks for watching, Dave.
@@LizAmazing You're welcome! Just found your channel. I'd be happy to e-mail you a list of our issues if you'd find it helpful for your channel. We still love our new camper, but I'm glad I'm a handy person to correct the build quality.
Wow, people that have absolutely no clue or don’t give a rip building these things… imagine if planes were built this way.
This is why people are doing their own bus conversions. 🙂
I’m renovating a prevost for a client that’s 30 years old. His biggest concern dumbing the systems down. After owning it for 3 years he’s realized all the “bells and whistles” are just more things to fail 🙃
Exactly, that's where I am. The simpler the better. It went on 5 long trips barebones, and that completely changed how it's turning out now. Still not done, lol
I remember knowing a good mechanic who’s personal cars were all older with a lot of miles and very few automatic or power features, but they operated like new. He knew better than to buy the things that fail.
You are performing a great service for those who have been stuck with these junk RV's and also providing warnings to those who may be interested in purchasing some of these shoddy units. Keep it up and ignore those detractors who can't appreciate the value of what you provide!
Aww, thanks so much for your support and cheering me on! Hugs to you! And feel free to share this video.
Wow, my husband told me to start watching your videos to see just how lucky we were to choose a 2007 Diesel Class A that he knew how to Upgrade, it is no longer a TourMaster... it's a MikeMaster! Best to you, cyber hugs.
Can't thank you enough Liz for covering this much needed consumer protection issue. I'm old enough to remember when the local news media would do these expose's on various businesses. Sadly that has disappeared.
Aww, thanks Ellis! I am thrilled to be making a difference and helping Sharon and Jeff get the service they deserve. Thanks for watching and for your kind words!
I've heard a lot of RV horror stories, and i concluded it's better to just stay in hotels. If you invested 400k in a mutual fund, you could stay at a Hilton every night for 10 years.
Or just rent. RVs are like my nieces and nephews. Fun but nice to return ‘em when done.
😊travel trailer better overall .
It appears to me that these companies have very very poor quality control. They don’t need to somehow probably because of little real competition and the giant company lobby that runs the cartel in Indiana. Today’s automakers have some issues but you will never see the egregious errors that you see in the RV industry. They are cheaply made with cheap untrained labor and have little quality checklists and don’t have any tear apart quality control program. It’s just horrible and appalling. Just another reason to stay in hotels or rent an RV.
I've never owned an RV, I can only do minor maintenance in my house. These are the horror stories that stop me from even renting an RV. Hope things go well for the couple.
Hi Ron. Yeah this series is sobering for sure. Not a good time to buy new, but trailers and fifth wheels built in 2019 and before tend to be well-built. The motorhome sweet spot is 2002 to 2008. Whatever you buy, join the Facebook group of the model to get the scoop from owners. And always get an inspection. Another advantage of buying used is the seller has typically gotten the kinks out. Thanks for watching.
This has been very enlightening. You have saved me valuable time since I will not have these RV's on my consideration list. Thank you.
Thank you Liz and you are AMAZING. We can't wait to meet you one day. These are so heartbreaking, but so necessary to show. I have a 2024 Montana 295RL and I've only had 2 issues so far (knowing full well I should have ZERO issues), and one was a water issue OF COURSE. We really need to have laws passed to hold these manufacturers liable, and the C level people personally responsible. Thanks again!
What a heart breaker. Thank you so much for your service to the RV community. My wife and I are new subscribers. We bought a 2004 Tiffin Phaeton in July of this year, and we love it. We watched your videos before we went RV shopping and we believe you have steered us away from a minefield of trouble and woe. Keep up the great work.
Hi you two! Welcome to the channel and thank you so much for moving me closer to 100k subscribers!!! So glad you've got a good one, yeah 2004 was a good year for RVs. Thanks so much for your support and kind words.
I am not surprised to hear about all these issues with their new coach.
We are newbies and purchased our used RV in Dec 22. My brother recommended an RV inspector. He found a few small issues that were not a deal breaker for us. We were surprised to learn that our black and gray tank gauge wires are reversed. Lol.
But with that said, the inspector told us not to purchase any RV manufactured mid 2020 or newer. He says with the pandemic so many people started buying RV and travel trailers that the manufacturer quality declined greatly to meet the demand. I have two friends that did purchase new and both have had so many issues.
It’s truly sad to hear these stories of problems when we just want to explore and enjoy the great USA.
Very good advice these days, thanks for this. Not a good time to buy new but a used quality one is a good choice. Stay tuned for tomorrow's video with happy buyers raving about a new quality built RV. Thanks for watching.
I just commented somewhere above that I read a couple years ago not to buy any rigs manufactured 2020 or after . Heard they are basically POS’S
I have a friend in transport industry that moves these Thor coaches to dealers for several years. He delivers them & returns them back to factory. Lots of major issues!! Even trim parts falling off before he gets to dealer that ordered them. Save your money!!
I live in a 36ft RV full time. I bought it used, when the rainy season came, I had a leak dripping from the air-conditioner in the back bedroom, after removing that air-conditioner and putting in new gaskets it still leaked. After removing it and putting a cover over it, still had a leak there! Finally found the problem, it was the antennas leaking on the front of the roof ! 14:44
What? Oh my goodness. Thanks for sharing this. Here’s the rest of the story in the update, and thanks for watching: th-cam.com/video/yS5Q2eDcJpca/w-d-xo.html
We had an inspection on our used RV once. Unfortunately it was in house and totally useless. Glad to hear you might be getting some action! You paid good $$$, now Thor needs to deliver!
Thank you, Liz, for using your voice to help others. And for educating us in the challenges we may face. You are awesome!
@ajerrilynnbicek7996... she's not awesome, she's amazing! 🤗
Pretty please also find out WHY THESE COACHMAN MANUFACTURE ARE NOT INSTALLING SPARE TIRES ON their new RVs .It would be a nightmare if a family had a flat on middle of the road ,let's say San Antonio traffic hour, or 610 in Houston ,how about middle of nowhere USA . Please make them answer why are they installing paper thin plastic instead of solid moulding on Freelander .Mine flew off in the middle of San Antonio while while traveling across Texas ,
Miguel Negrete 10-28-23 .
Don't sign until you are sure all question are answerd.
I can't imagine having that many issues. good for you helping this great family.