Do not orient a map - when using with a compass
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ม.ค. 2024
- When using a compass for map-based navigation, there's no need to orient the map. This fact will help those new to navigation to speed up their learning process. If put basically it can be said that you compass will provide accurate bearings, irrespective of the map's orientation. This flexibility streamlines navigation in various scenarios, offering convenience and efficiency. Users can swiftly pinpoint directions without the constant need to point the map in various directions, making it much simpler for hikers, orienteers, and outdoor enthusiasts. Simplifying the process, this approach to navigation emphasizes user-friendly adaptability. Whether exploring rugged terrains or urban landscapes, this method ensures precision in direction-finding, promoting ease and reliability for individuals relying on compass-guided navigation in their outdoor pursuits.
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Don't worry any worry about editing out "irrelevant" material, the waffle is part of the charm of your videos!
To je honest it was more interesting than the compas part.
(I dont use maps)
I agree. He has a really pleasant manner and clearly enjoys his subject.
Never change! A minutes worth of your waffle teaches us more than an hour's worth of some other TH-cam channels! Thank you.
i agree with you on that and i just found his channel by random chance and instantly enjoyed every second of the video
I quite enjoy the inclusion of the medieval history references. In fact, combining map reading and these locations, especially considering most travel shows dealing with medieval history, never get more than a few meters away from roadways really adds to your commentary.
You absolutely don't have to orient your map but it doesn't hurt to do it. I always do it becaue it makes life a little easier🙂
I find it's easier to teach map skills to newbies when you orient your map as they can visualize whats happening along with the explainations they are given.
when dealing with a compass i always teach them not to, as then reading the symbols and text is easiest so they make less mistakes on taking reference points for they position.. (rotatign back and forth between identifying a reference point you can see then rotating to read what it actually is on the map.) my quick rule is when walking on a mapuse the map (ie orient it to your direction of travel) when traveling/using a bearing/compass you use the compass as your orientation. it also prevents north south mistakes where they turn teh map 180 degrees and go teh opposite of where they shoul be going because they did not rotate their compas correctly but rotated the map instead.
I was taught to orient maps to north in Scouts, as a way of helping figure out where I was. Find north with the compass, turn around until you're facing north with the map pointing north, and work from there. I think rotating on the spot was a way of making sure the expensive maps didn't get dropped into mud.
I even do it with road maps now, when trying to solve the issue of where I've ended up while trying to find somewhere else, in an area that looks exactly the same as where I was 50 miles ago. Useful when google isn't cooperating.
There's nothing wrong with the waffling. Education is always good!
Do NOT stop "waffling" as you so charmingly call it. I absolutely enjoy every "waffle". Nothing so enhances a trip or journey as looking for what came long before! An "Over-The-Road" Trucker in the States. Greetings and best wishes from Tennessee, USA.
Ditto Sunny Western Australia.
I’m ex military, i just wanted to refresh my memory and map reading , found your side and it’s great, keep on woffling
Sir its great info
Fascinating waffle indeed, please keep it coming. I learned more in your 15 minute video than at any other map lesson that I have ever attended. 👍
Hello from Ohio in the USA. Fairly new to the channel and very much enjoying it. You are a good teacher and I appreciate the time and effort you put into your content!
If you were to ask me, I’d encourage you to keep waffling and sharing the history and your insights. I enjoy learning, not only land navigation, but history.
I had no idea what the cross was that was your destination. And then you pointed to the remains, a pole standing by a wall in the middle of nowhere…Then your history lesson made it all clear and I thank you for that
Hi.. the 'pole' is in fact a solid piece of carved stone. As mentioned, the broken top and cross section probably ended in the repair of a boundary wall. Old gate posts were frequently made of stone too.
Your waffling does add some context to the video. And I love history and geography!
Literally same things I was about to say. Im also from northeast Ohio. lol I love this guys charm. And I know nothing of map reading so here I am.
Your "waffle" is always worthwhile. Historical context creates deeper understanding, but even if there was no obvious practical benefit, the departures are interesting and entertaining. I love how you end up leaving everything in despite resolving at the time to cut it out. 😄
I understood what you meant from the start. I was taught map reading by the Army, and use whatever method ‘works’ best. Taking a bearing from the map is not affected by the direction the map points in. How you hold a map when you’re walking, hiking or running, in inclement weather, is important. If you want to minimise your time scrutinising your map, it’s worth developing a method whereby a quick glance at your map keeps you on track? That might mean orientating your map, holding it in position, your thumb on your destination or target enabling you to make quicker navigational decisions. It isn’t rocket science, but as you point out map reading in itself is enjoyable, gaining the skill is great fun, it’ll spur you on to other adventures as your confidence increases. Your explanations are clear and concise, much better than mine could be. I like that you count contours, a profile tool so often missed by so many people. Thanks for a great vid.
Always thumb the map, orientated so things behind are behind and infront things are infront. Compass is secondary in good weather.
I don’t care what anyone says, I love the history tidbits and would miss them if they weren’t included. It appears that so many others enjoy them as well! I say we all give a very strong thumbs up in hopes that you start a second channel that is exclusively about history (and a few science tidbits too!)
That’s a great idea. Sign me up 👍
You present your videos brilliantly and please don’t stop adding the “off topic “ history information as it’s very interesting! Thank you 👍🏻😎
I was trained old school, stumbling out in the woods, with stones and sticks in my pocket to count my steps on a bearing I checked over and over as the terrain changed only to end up exactly on the road or landmark I was aiming for at exactly my pace count. This stuff works!
Yes, it works. I've hiked in zero visibility in Alaska carefully following a bearing and distance and after about an hour, was within about 200 feet of intended destination. A good compass is useful and keeping it away from possible magnetic things on your body or backpack is probably essential. i was with a man who was using a lensatic compass and he always wanted to go left; round and round in a circle. Eventually realized his eyeglasses were attracting the needle.
Most military use lensatic compass, which can’t be easily used to determine an accurate azimuth to follow. One uses a protractor, then inputs that number on their compass and off you go. The Silva you had eliminates that extra steps. I learned to read maps without turning them 95% of the time (only turning on especially complicated areas). I also often used a compass calibrated in Mils (6400 Mils in a circle). The Artillery uses that simpler measurement instead of degrees, minutes, and seconds. (Much like the metric vs imperial).
Boy am I glad to see your video on this topic! Ever since I started watching navigational videos It bugged me whenever someone would start out by saying that you need to orient your map when you first start doing anything. You explained this perfectly! I absolutely love watching your videos so keep on waffling.
Imagine if the navigator on an aircraft carrier had to swing the ship around to the north every time he wanted to take a bearing from his chart.
Love the channel, you've inspired me to dig out my old topo sheets and compass.
Good luck!
@jaym8027 Apples to Oranges ! Standing on land is by no means like being on an aircraft carrier, (or any kind of watercraft!).
It's exactly the same when it comes to the necessity of orienting a map (or chart) in order to plot a bearing. I'm a pilot, for what it's worth, and we don't find it necessary to orient our charts in order to plot bearings either.@@krasht1
Its not necessary to turn the ship. Geez if you don’t understand you should not comment. You have a compass affixed in the ship. It will tell you where magnetic north is. Since you know the ships heading based on the compass you simply orient the chart to the ship. And to find where you ARE on the chart exactly or very close needs a sextant or a GPS or an accurate reference from the last known location. However, not getting the map orientated to the direction of travel might mean running aground on some island you did not know was there because the chart was upside down. Or flying your aircraft into a mountain or falling off a cliff in the dark. In the military, in aircraft and on a water craft out of sight of land you better know what is around you and where it is. If you are walking around in an open area with unlimited visibility then its not so important. AND if you do not know where you are on the map in order to find your location from TERRAIN features or even a distant church steeple you gotta orient the map. So you better know how.
I attended an orienteering course where this was the most difficult concept for some students to grasp. We were in a classroom setting plotting a route and yet they were fixated on the needle. They couldn't understand that they just needed to measure the angles.
I've never done any rambling or orienteering, but I learned to navigate as part of the requirements to get my private pilots licence. In the confined space of a light aircraft it would be rather inconvenient rotating maps around, especially since they're generally held down to your thigh. Furthermore having the map oriented to line up with the physical geography would be missleading, as heading in the direction indicated on the map would have you missing your target (due to the effects of wind speed and direction). When I got a boat the same principles apply. Allowance needs to be made based on heading and speed of the vessel combined with the speed and heading of the prevailing water current. I believe that this is why it's only the Army that "orients" its maps. It can be useful when you're travelling across terra firma, but navigating through a fluid medium means your heading is not necessarily the same as your direction of travel.
Orienteering, measuring the angles? Make your route choice, ID the correct direction to run in and "tick" off features as you pass them. Only number to worry about is the control code. (Dont misspunch)
I enjoy your historical detours as much as the lessons themselves. Thank you for making them as entertaining as they are informative.
Years ago I had a primitive compass without a bezel, only the needle and fixed scale. Orienting map was helpful in that case.
I personally think this channel needs to go viral or this video at least - anybody with 1 million followers😅?! This is the absolute best channel on this topic especially with the added history lesson and very charming waffle😂 we have all learnt so much from this master! He deserves credit and recognition. I've shared it to my contacts... let's all share it!❤🎉🎉
The reason the army does how it does, is because of lowest common denominator. Its easier to visualize for any recruit, if you point everything to the north.
So a compass will help you find north, but if you lost it, you only need another way to estimate north, but the rest of procedure is basically the same.
What I'm trying to say is, having a similar standard for orienting in under all circomstances, is easier to remeber when under pressure.
I learned land navigation using only map and compass as part of my initial military training in the US Air Force back in 1981 and I haven’t forgotten a bit of it. I can still talk about azimuths, intersection, resection, pace counts, 8 and 6 digit grid coordinates, declination diagrams, navigating around obstacles etc. When the GPS started being used in the late 80’s early 90’s (to me it was more complicated than using the map and compass at the time) land navigation training began getting away from the compass and map. We used I think the 1:100,000 map?? Where one inch on the map represented 100’000 inches on the ground. Maybe it was a 1:50,000. Anyway I guess I have forgotten some things lol but I still have a fascination to this day. Thanks!
1:50000
I’ve always loved reading maps and all the icons and information. Now I will learn even better how to use them with a compass. I’ve been teaching my daughter too. I look forward to going through all your videos. Love your history waffles don’t delete them!
Your waffling is so wonderful don't stop. Having a glimpse into the rich history of the area adds so much. Thank you.❤
I love when you waffle. I have been trying to get this concept down for years and you are the only one that explained it in a way I finally understand and that is not needing to orient the map when you are using a compass!! Thank you for helping me understand this concept.
I agree with the previous commenters: I love it when you waffle. I learn a lot during those tangents. I also love how you say, "Just fast-forward through that bit" AT THE END of the bit. 🤣. Love your videos. Cheers from Colorado, USA.
I love the waffling. It adds so many dimensions to the video. I'm not in Great Britain and so dont have these types of markers. It's fascinating to learn from these little side trips.
We used to draw magnetic declination lines directly on the map with about the same spacing as the grid lines. Rotate the bezel to align with the drawn in declination lines and you’ve got your azimuth already corrected for declination.
Thank You Sir !!!! I watch all your videos at least twice. Please know, that you give the most informative videos on map and compass navigation, on TH-cam. I think that anyone following you has learned from your examples. Keep up the good work the Waffles, and stay safe.
As a small child, I remember a poem referencing Banbury Cross. By far you have the best videos on land navigation.
Ride a cock-horse to Banbury Cross,
To see a fine lady upon a white horse;
Rings on her fingers and bells on her toes,
And she shall have music wherever she goes
Waffling is great! I learn as much from the excursions as the main point!😊. It is useful information, because it orients us modern humans in history. Modern people tend to forget that we are a product of our past and the reasons for what we have, say and do now often have roots in the past. Thanks for reminding us that we have a lot to be thankful for, and we don’t need to live as though life’s problems haven’t been encountered and addressed before.
Just found your channel. Liked the bit of history personally. Coming from USA we dont have the luxury of such well preserved ancient landmarks! I bought a lot of land nav /backpacking stuff a while ago but never printed maps as i couldn't figure out exactly what i wanted printed. Thanks for the reminder to finish what i started.
5:48 "What am I doing?" Subscribed.
Great presentation! Please don't take out the historical bits! They are priceless bits of knowledge. We are all richer for them, and those who don't want to watch them are free to fast-forward. That's a lovely bit of country there. Much greener than where I live in Las Vegas. The desert has it's own kind of beauty, but one has to learn how to look at it. Cheers!
I enjoyed this. The bit of history about those crosses was a nice bonus. I occasionally encounter old items on my hikes, but "old" where I live is measured in mere decades against the hundreds of years worth of history you were standing next to in your video.
You do a great job of covering all of the practical elements of wilderness travel. And your neighborhood there is spectacular; visiting may be a new bucket list item. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Great video!
As an former military engineer I enjoyed the video, even the wafflely bits, the incite to our history escaped me when I was younger and I appreciate more now!
Keep being you and embrace the opportunity to share your knowledge.
PS: As a formerlly Military Engineer I still orientate plans etc to the ground onsite before discussing anything about them with colleagues, it really helps people being aware of what's going on!
Honestly those waffling bits were real nuggets of information thank you. 🙏
Came for the map talk, subscribed for the waffling. I think those bits of related information bring much more meaning to the larger subject being discussed, and the brief asides about the significance of these local and often overlooked landmarks are inspiring--I now want to find maps of some of my favorite country and plan hikes to specific features to learn more about them.
In short: „Ignore the little spinny magnet inside when you don't need it, and use just the rotating protractor around it to measure (relative) angles”.
Your “waffle” is some of the most entertaining content, your non waffle is the most purely useful - keep up both please.
I'd describe those bits as tangents, and yours are wonderfully interesting and entertaining. I typically "orien" my maps towards the best source for beer. Cheers!
A good teacher mixes in small lessons on other sujects into in the lesson on the main subject, excellent!
Another excellent land navigational video - particularly enjoyed the waffling!
Great content as always Wayne, thankyou. Where I think orientation is useful (in the modern world) is using maps on phones, especially at the start of a journey - often times one doesn't know where North (or any cardinal point) is, so orientating oneself to the local area/landscape and knowing the direction of travel will invariably prevent errors. Keep up the great work and hopefully see you on a course (or socially) again. Cheers! FYI, Wayne runs excellent navigation courses.
Useful video and one I’ve never thought about. My math and logic brain understands exactly what you are teaching us here and the message is understood…but we both know I am going to keep orienting my map. It feels odd just talking about not doing it. 😂
I didn't even realise you were waffling until you mentioned it, I was quite happy going along for the journey at that point!
Everything you say about how to use a compass is true, for a modern compass with a transparent housing. Spotting compasses don't usually have that. Even my first compass I had in Scouts had an arm to lock the needle, but otherwise it was a solid housing octagon with a floating needle, not even fluid filled. For that application, you need to orient the map. What happens when you have a modern compass, if you orient the map, or you were instructed to orient the map, then it will still work, obviously. However, if you had to fall back to basics, and you only knew how to use a modern compass, and maybe all you had was a magnetized straight needle floating on a cork, then you won't get it wrong. Lean the basics, then learn how to use the features of your compass, which might make it unnecessary to actually orient your map first. One other advantage with keeping orientation, especially if you have a declination, you can already dial in the declination to the housing and then getting your bearing is aligning the map and needle to the housing.
I decided that I was going to find your map's area using Google Maps and I found it using the Clattering River as a reference point and using the satellite view, I was able to see all the points on your map in the video. I love this!
In school we had an exercise where we walked along a marked path. At various stages we were asked to point out where on the map we were. Great exercise in reading a map and keeping track of where you are.
As for using a compass, some people never understood what you say in this video. They would move around to orient their map instead of e.g. using a handy tree stump to get a good surface for taking a compass bearing.
Great informative video, please keep them coming I’m certainly learning some good stuff from you and don’t stop the waffle it’s entertaining and sometimes funny
Should is a strong term here. For overland navigation with no linear features it is useful if landforms, topography, are the most prominent features. (I hike in empty roadless wilderness areas of Nevada sometimes, landform recogniton and orienting your map are critical if you don't have linear features. Orienting your map helps identify landmarks and maintain your fix. Agreed, many people can rotate landmarks in their head.) On handrails like you are for part of the trek, different story! Use handrails and topological navigation first. And you get the most important aspect of navigating with a map 💯, keep your fix, monitor your landmarks or waypoints, anticipate them as you move.
Flip jig!! I have been doing that for years.... well, you've taught an old dog a new trick. Love this channel!
First time I've seen any of your videos, I don't even own a map, and yet this is one of the videos I've enjoyed watching the most in recent times. You explain things really well and your calming voice is a joy to listen to. I feel like I learnt more in these 10 minutes than hour long videos!
Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a full channel of map reading videos to catch up on :D
PS: Please don't worry about cutting out the "waffling" parts - those were some of my favourite parts! Was very interesting to learn where the word "orient" came from, or what the crosses were for.
Love your waffling, it’s informative and is what keeps me watching.
Well I am glad you didn't delete what you did show. I have been on this bit o rock near 6 decades and I learned several things new because you did not delete the part you showed us.
I really enjoy your fascinating history lessons! Keep up the waffling!😊
Dont stop the 'waffling' Wayne; it's part of the charm of these videos - ! 😊
Your channel is great because you are great and because you understand what you are doing.
The biggest issue is that sometimes we learn something without having a clear understanding of why.
Love the stories in between and the mini history lessons, what you call waffling 😂great videos, very helpful !!
your explanations make all the senses, thanks!
I enjoyed the history lesson as much as the nav skills 😊 brilliant!
this man just turned a 30 second video into 10 minutes of random history and i love it
Happy New Year from the US! Love your little bits of history!
Started walking locally, forest roads I know and woodland I know so no need for a map, I’m just practicing with the compass on my iPhone (not ordering a proper one just yet but I will) I stumbled across your videos looking for tips on using a compass, please don’t stop waffling as I find what you have to say interesting and I find your nature very friendly and welcoming. I think that’s what draws people to your channel
I enjoyed the waffle! I'll add some waffle of my own: The word for both "south" and "right" in Welsh is identical ("de"). So, if a map was oriented according to the true meaning of the word, with east at the top, the south would be to the right. I think some other European languages also share the same word for both "right" and "south" but I can't remember which ones.
Love the videos, keep on waffling because history is another love of mine.
Its certainly not waffle or irrelevant , love the education and explanation you give - please keep sharing and teaching - my 6 year old Grandson and I are fans and are learning so much beyond his path finding skills that I set out to teach him
Love your sense of humour. Please continue the waffling 😁
Please continue the waffle! In addition to the instructional value of the video, your backdrop, stories, and waffle provide insight into the history and culture of England we can't find elsewhere!
35 yrs in the army and we always oriented our maps (hate the word 'orientate' - just wrong). I always found it was good psychologically in visualizing the journey and comparing the map with the ground. WE taught our soldiers how to orient using the compass if features were not obvious. Set compass on the map and rotate it until it's meridian lines line up the the eastings on the map grid. Then gently rotate the map until the magnetic needle is inside of the red outline within the compass dial. Et, voila.
You are correct, though. Orienting is not necessary when plotting a bearing using a compass.
That’s how I was taught map pointing north so it’s good to know I don’t have to do that , thanks 👍
Don't delete. Your commentary is informative and very interesting.
I am Verry much enjoying the way you present with ease!! Thank YOU !!
As has been said…… The History and waffle are equally fabulous ! Love the Chanel
The history reference was great. Keep them coming 👍
Very interesting; the terms orient, the orient and oriental now have a special meaning to them. Fan of your work.
People learn more if they’re in a good humour and you achieve that. It’s not waffle but informal information. Tiny point, the dissolution of the monasteries took place in the 16th Century, around the 1530s. Useful video, as always. Many thanks.
I was a boy scout many many years ago. We were taught to align the compass to magnetic north to take bearings
First of your videos I've seen, and I'll be subscribing for sure. I enjoyed the brief history lesson, irrelevant or not! Don't ever cut that stuff out, it's so charming!
Love your videos and please keep the additional information.
Entertaining as always, and some of us enjoy the superfluous history lessons and facts. Cheers.
I love the historical aspect, and context! thank you so much for sharing.i've always lived in southern New England USA my whole life. I live on the coast and grew up going on boats with my Dad. We were most of the time close to land and could get by with dead reckoning, except in the fog. For example going from Block Island to Watch Hill Rhode Island. Before GPS we used maps , compass and bearings and a fog horn (before radar)! Lately I've gotten into camping up north and woods get pretty big and its easy to get lost /loose a trail, so thank you for sharing ! (ps- we lived in Canterbury, GB 1973-75 as my Dad had a job there at the time ) Cheers!
Another good watch some great advice, I really do enjoy using my maps
Retired US Special Forces guy here. Although we were trained and understood that the map doesn’t need to be oriented, we always did. This way we could not just get the bearing, but could potentially identify terrain features, so to move expeditiously without looking at the compass or map. We had to look out for bad guys. Furthermore, there was the intersection and resection issues.
Don’t edit the waffling. It adds to the pleasant nature of your videos.
I agree with you that it’s best to have your map oriented whilst walking along - that’s what I do. This video was just in answer to the many, many comments and emails I get from folk saying that the map must be oriented to take a compass bearing. And I’m now getting emails saying that my method will only work with a baseplate compass and not with a lensatic (which of course just wrong) all I can say is that this method works with all compasses except a button/survival compass (which is on my list of “to do” videos).
Intersection/Resection - I did a short video about those two techniques a few months ago.
Here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/VSbyY4jMGfY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AYTXl73RE-PB7h48
@@TheMapReadingCompany Right on! I will continue to enjoy your videos and appreciate the mental refresher. Have fun and be safe out there!
When we were doing week long mountain treks we would do as you do, glancing at the map as we go orienting based off our direction of travel. If there is ever a slight hint of uncertainty or question, that's when we'd take the extra time to shoot a few bearings and orient before we made a mistake. Great video, need to get back out onto the trails soon.
Keep on waffling! It’s interesting information!
Thanks for the history lesson!
I am glad you didn't delete the bit as it was interesting interesting informative and entertaining
I loved this video, very useful and informative. I enjoyed your “waffling “ and learned a few things. Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and keep sharing your waffling its much appreciated
I've been in ground Search and Rescue for 25 years and for 20 of those years I taught the basic course that everyone must pass to be certified as a searcher. Part of that was map and compass, it is the hardest thing to get new students to ignore the needle when taking bearings off the map with a compass, I kept banging on that when used with a map the compass was a fancy protractor. The other problem was people turning their maps in the field to locate themselves, to me that implies you have no situational awareness and are unable to recognize features regardless of which way the map is pointing. Having said all that I learned navigation in the Navy where the chart was on a table and north was always at the top regardless of which way the ship was pointing.
wonderfull history in your story telling, please keep this type of "sidetrack" content
"Orient" explanation was interesting. Thank you.
Keep the points of interest comments going - breaks up the program nicely. - great channel
I learned orienteering in class almost 50 years ago, (wow, where has the time gone?) I remember most but have forgotten a few things. Thanks for the memories.
I don't think the info you give is useless. It's bits of history and other information like this that makes life interesting. Keep on "waffling"!
Second one I've watched of yours and I really enjoy them.
I haven't used a map and compass in years! In fact, rarely did I use the compass. Would never regard myself as proficient simply because of the irregularity of use, but I did regard it as common sense that I didn't need to orientate the map to take a compass bearing.
Just as an added note, I love all the extra snippets of information, aka, waffle.
Don’t delete your waffling!,we are learning more from you than most other channels teach!!!