"And so Aragorn's heroism is not a one-on-one duel with a big villain. His heroism is his attempt to put his own life and the life of his troops on the line in the vague hope and dream that it somehow may give Frodo and Sam that little opportunity to help them complete their mission." I'm glad they came around to this instead of the cliché fight against the big bad.
It would have also undermined Sauron's defeat, which would have been because he was too busy fighting instead of his arrogance and lack of ability to conceive that anyone could ever willingly destroy his ring.
@@scottmaybee the irony is no one did willfully destroy the ring. Unless you count Eru stepping in at that point to give gollum a little nudge in the proper direction.
@@ryanmounce2850 Out of all of Tolkien's work, this fact is for me what cuts the deepest - that in the end, evil is inside us all, it is inescapable and despite our own will, we will not overcome it. Makes you take pause and caution your own motives in life.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
@@scottwarren4998 I understand thinking the duel is cool and interesting - but as stated in the video, it undermines too much with the characters and the overall story to sacrifice it just for some cool points.
Peter Jackson out of his mind as usual. Why on earth wouldn't Sauron himself defend his own land? if the crowd doesn't get it, then let Aragorn and Gandalf have a discussion about it before the fight.
@@scottwarren4998 because thats not what tolkien wrote and not why aragorn was there. that is respecting the lore of an author who can not defend it anymore. It is simpy honourable.
I'm honestly glad they made the Witch King's weapon so large. When I saw it for the first time I was thinking "holy mother of god, he could crush her to death with one swing." It was terrifying, and it made it that much more awesome when Eowyn defeated him.
"It was not what Tolkien imagined. We realized it was totally demeaning to what Aragorn was doing." Thank you Mr Jackson not only for respecting the original material but bringing it to this unique form. Came back here totally ruined by Game of Thrones.
@@lich109 Well it kind of was. He came on late, admitted he was rushed, yet decided to do three films instead of two (it was Jackson's decision), and each one was incredibly long. When you are in a hurry and stretched, you don't add more work to the pile. I enjoy the Hobbit films, but it should have been one very simple movie. Not three big epics.
@@Syklonus Yeah, it should have been two movies that focus on child book tonality. It should have been closer to something like "The Neverending Story" and not do an attempt to be almost bigger than the Lord of the Rings. The Hobbit trilogy are great movies, but only the sections that are a fantasy road movie in the tone of books. All the extra fluff they have added, albeit an intriguing dive into the lore behind both trilogies, really takes away from the magic of source material. Well, and some of the fighting was just ridiculous. The movies can be fantastic, but just a scene later they might turn into a high polish fantasy cartoon for children, and then into lore that no one asked for and that should have been explored in a different context.
I really like the design of the helmet. It makes sense because you can only see the mouth, and no other parts of the face exist. He literally is The Mouth of Sauron. Genius!
what are you talking about? in the book he was just described as an man in a black armour, who was more cruel than any orc. which is exactly what they made him in the film. his mouth is ripped and foul because he speaks on behalf of sauron, and no mere human can do that without fouling himself. it was actually kind of brilliant how they made him look
Honestly, growing up on RPGs that massively over-exaggerate medieval armoury, I was perfectly fine with that massive morning star. Didn't think it was too big til I saw this.
TheEthanEdge Nah, a morning star is basically a mace, which are typically blunt, but a morning star has spikes. That's pretty much it's defining characteristic. If it's on a handle, it is usually a mace or morning star, which are even kind of general categories I guess, there are tons of weapons with weird names that usually fit into the two. If it's on a chain it is considered a type of flail. There are blunt and spiked flails.
+Maurice K Still I think as it the witch king rider, and he is to be seen as a ungodly demon. The morning star/ flail, whatever was spot on awesome. yes in set it might look big granted :) but Like they said in the film, it fitted the character and the scene.
i like seeing actors giving their own input and advice on scenes like viggo did here for peter jackson. i think it's nice when they're not just mindlessly following what the director says and instead work as a creative team together. the idea of aragorn fighting sauron is a tempting way to end the movie but i think the way they did it worked well and is much more coherent and loyal to the book
aka the original 3 star wars vs the 3 prequels. George Lucas had lots of input from his team in the first 3, in the last 3 everyone regarded him as a god of directing and trusted his judgement.
Viggo Mortensen does that. He really does his homework for movies. He did the same on a film called Eastern Promises where he gave insight which ended up changing the focus of the film because he'd researched the material. A true master of his craft.
They made the right decision to not include that stupid Sauron fight. It was totally out of line with Sauron's character and, like they said, totally undermines Aragorn's true heroism. Tolkien is a brilliant writer who created a brilliant adventure, and these guys did a hell of a job bringing it to life. The mouth of Sauron was just extraordinary.
you dumb inbread fuck, it even says in the book "one of thise days he will come walking out the black gates himself" how the fuck is that out of character?
Aragorn never would have killed a messenger, though. That's just plain unkingly and makes him look like an angry petty child. I think leaving that out was a good idea solely because of Aragorn's behavior.
I've only ever seen the extended cut of all three, and I can't imagine a single scene being removed. It just wouldn't feel like the complete movie to me.
@@headphonic8 In defence of Aragorn. A mere messenger threatening, insulting and inciting psychological damage to the opposing party isn't that much of a proper conduct either. Aragorn did nothing wrong in retaliated against a disrespectful diplomat.
The way Aragorn says "For Frodo" and runs toward the army and his certain death is so moving, loved that scene. Shows the true depths of his courage and faith in his friends.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
@@electrictroy2010 Lord of The Rings was written between 1937 and 1949, not 100-200 years ago, so I'm not sure what your referring to. And if that's how you feel, Wait till you see The Rings of Power, 😆. Not that anyone should watch it, it stomps all over Tolkien's work.
Juuuuuuup, you just have to laugh at it. Poor guy, made it so heavy he couldn't even lift it with one arm xD But damn, did it look right in the movie. One hit and POOF, no more shield, broken arm.
I am really really positive there is nothing more terrifying then that bloody morning star. You can tell in the movie that if that thing hits you, you're DONE
"And so Aragorn's heroism is not about a one-on-one duel with a big villain" That's why The Hobbit isn't the same, and the final duel between Thorin and Azog it's so boring. There's nothing more on the play than their egos.
@@naniaozon well yes, they touch a little bit of that theme in AUJ, but in Botfa is like the big moment is that final encounter, and they put like something heroic?
letting sauron take physical form without the ring would have completely destroyed the entire plot of the trilogy. thank god they didnt put that scene in the movie.
In the book he had a physical form, in the movie he didn't. The black part in the centre of the eye of Sauron is actually him trying to reenter Middle Earth.
Same. I do remember first seeing it in the theatre and thinking "Christ that thing is huge", but I completely bought into it. It told me exactly how formidable the Witch King was as a warrior, not just a sorcerer. And the fact that you could see it even felt heavy to him but he could still wield it really sold it. Peter Jackson really knew what he was doing.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
Peters Jackson's LOTR trilogy IS perfect. It should be the yardstick against every movie to be measured, I dont care what you say in this instance, I will fight you. Come to your house and physically fight you.
Perhaps the wisest decision made is very interestingly discussed here: Cutting Sauron vs. Aragorn. Thank God that didn't make it in. It's such a Hollywood action moment cliche. Good on you, Pete, for ditching the idea. Thank you!
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
@@electrictroy2010Just because the story overall is good doesn't mean every aspect is. Also, sometimes things need to change when you're going from one form of media to another.
I'm in tears looking back at this. This shows how much both the directors and actors respected Tolkien, compared to the showrunners of the Amazon series
Totaly agree.. when I first saw that Peter made this scene I gasped hard, like ``are you SERIOUS??`` what would be the point with the whole ring story then, If sauron could just appear in form anyway, what were you thinking PJ..
@@darthwalrus4740 I kinda agree even though it might have worked in its own manner. If there were to be two kind of absolute climaxes at the same time; destroying the ring and Aragorn and Sauron fighting it would've been a bit distracting to which was actually the more important event taking place. WIth the clear focus being on the destruction of the ring I think it more clearly emphasizes on the fact that the whole purpose of the journey in the first place was to destroy the Ring, not to fight Sauron, fighting the Sauron was just an later plan to give Frodo and Sam more time and take Sauron's focus out of the Mt. Doom, so I agree with dir. Jackson and you.
Kohoute you do realize Sauron had a body at the time of the final battle right? So it does make FAR more sense for Sauron to try and fight to stop the heroes.
actually i think it would have saved the comments from the book readers and the criticism about Sauron being only a big eye on top of a tower. He had a body, if they had shown that in the movie it would have fitted and everybody would have shut up. Now, all you see is a giant eye die.
It always amazes me in watching these outtakes with how brilliant everyone was in collaborating together to solve problems while constructing these movies, as well as how jolly the cast is in their endeavors. Many of them faced physically strenuous work and always had such giddy outlook on their scenes even when dealing with injuries on set.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
I think the point of the “ludicrously large” morning star is that it’s ultimately being wielded by a supernatural entity of great power and sever darkness, who delights in causing terror and pain in the living. Only something with unholy strength would be able to wield something so impractical; and it’s only Impractical to us because there’s no way we could wield such a thing with effectiveness. Put it in the hands of the Witch King of Angmar, and suddenly nobody would be scoffing at that thing. I actually still remember my reaction to that scene during my first time watching RotK in the theaters: “Jesus fkin Christ...no way would I go up against something like that. She’s totally screwed.” I’m glad that kept it the way it was. Otherwise it’d have just been another scene in the film, rather than an iconic jaw-dropping moment; a bit of a realization as to why mortals don’t fuck with a ring wraith.
Pretty much, yeah. He doesn't have muscles to stretch, he doesn't have tendons to snap, he doesn't have a shoulder-joint to strain. He can just go ham.
The mace/morning star of the witch-king was perfect! I actually felt the horror of having to stand up against something like that. When he started to swing it at Eowyn all I could think of was: "Oh no one hit and she gets decimated."
The main problem with the Annatar appearance is that it would have contradicted the story’s premise. The whole reason Sauron is opposing the Free People so directly in LotR - no tricks or schemes, just open war - is that he’s physically unable to assume a fair form after Iluvatar took his shape shifting power from him in Numenor. He’s locked in his Dark Lord form, so trickery is not an option and he has to go at it the old fashioned way. Had he still had his full power, he would’ve found way more insidious ways of conquering Gondor and Rohan than just throwing armies of Orcs at them. The whole story of LotR would’ve turned out very differently, and probably for the worse, so it would’ve never come to the Battle at the Black Gate.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
I suppose Sala Baker might have been a tad disappointed at having been replaced by a cave troll ;p Although I agree that that fight was a stupid idea. I think Tolkien interfered from beyond the grave in this one. It would've ruined the movie and one of the greatest villains of all time. I'm really glad they cut it out.
Agreed. Jackson likes to over do things, like giving the Great Goblin testicles for a chin, and I'm glad he listened to the cast and crew while making LotR
@xellossaxon I still think there is worth in the type of irony in which the audience knows something the characters don't. Yes, we know Frodo isn't dead, but the heroes don't know that at all. They have to make a decision under our judgement and we can't do anything to stop them. Now they obviously make the right choice, which like you said, makes the scene a bit pointless, but still. It's clear why it was dropped, but it was made very well even if it didn't serve much narrative purpose other than to test the characters' will.
@@ibs_haver I agree. The other thing is: I heard people say, it was cut because Aragorn kills a messenger. Let's stop with this messenger bullshit. He is the MOUTH of Sauron and gives the heroes the information, Sauron wants them to hear. We haven't seen him having a body since the first scenes of fellowship, 3000 years ago. He isn't like a sort of messenger who brings important mail to another kingdom. He is the MOUTH of the villain, who is insulting the heroes and trying to play mindgames with them.
Every time I watch the appendices to the LotR movies, I find myself in complete awe of the creativity and the immense level of nerdiness portrayed in the making of these films. Everything was just so detailed from the costumes and makeup design to the sets and props... even the acting, the writing, and the music composition are completely on point. I kind of wish I was born 20 years earlier than I was so that I could've been a part of this incredible piece of art.
Having Sauron appear as Annatar was a really interesting idea, and the concept art and early stills make it look incredibly disturbing. Would have been cool to see in it's completed form. But, all that said, I'm very glad they chose not to go that route. They made the right decision for both the films, and in sticking to the source material.
@@SonofSethoitae on the one hand, yes. On the other hand, you had the army of the dead actually fighting and defeating saurons army at Minas tirith. Which is also impossible according to the books
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
“It is ludicrously large ... and you see the look on Eowyn’s face when she sees it. She’s terrified.” 😳 Well there’s some subtext that I never picked up on as a kid!
Okay, can we just appreciate for a minute here the fact that Peter Jackson actively changed his script because he felt his original vision was demeaning to what Tolkien had intended? Today, very few directors would actually show such creative appreciation to the original author and just do whatever they wanted. *COUGH COUGH* Star Wars *COUGH*
@@abnercliff9624 True, true, and not Favreau, either. I love the Clone Wars and The Mandalorian. I was mainly referring to the sequels. If you like them, that's fine, it's your opinion and it's totally valid, but I really don't like them.
"I've never been so submerged in costume, makeup, and masks, et cetera, as I have been in this." *me, thinking of his role in Revenge of the Sith* "give it time."
Even though I'm glad they decided against the Aragorn vs. Sauron scene, having him appear as the angelic Maia Mairon and then morph into the evil Sauron was beautifully done in the my opinion. They could have even had a light moment with Gandalf saying something "Maia to Maia-like," like, oh hey, I remember you! Nice to see you again in physical form on Middle-Earth! lol
I like the idea that Sauron shows Aragorn his true nature as either a kind of taunt or even as a gesture of respect. As it is, Sauron in the films feels more like a force of nature than a character in his own right, so this would've reminded the audience that there is, or was, somebody underneath that spiky metal armor.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
Movie making and production of epics like LOTR is really fascinating. Everyone has to literally "imagine" what the landscape is like when you shoot before a blue screen. I bought the LOTR trilogy on blue ray and I would rewatch it every so often. The extended versions have so much more details and context.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK. I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written. Don’t change it.
@@electrictroy2010 Movies as a medium is completely different from printed words in books. I love the Tolkien books, but the LOTR trilogy is awesome. It isn't so much as "improving" on the books as it is to adapting the words into moving pictures on a much much shorter timeframe. That's why it's called ADAPTION (from books to movies), for very good reasons. Same is true with GoT. Martin's last book is still pending, so we'll have no way to judge the GoT finale that has since come and gone. But some of the details from GRRM's books that were left out from the tv series, were good decisions. Case in point: It's a good decision to leave out Young Griff, who is almost inconsequential to the storytelling itself, it's almost like meandering.
Another reason why it was the right call cutting the Sauron/Aragorn fight: one aspect of it contradicts information in The Silmarillion and the appendices to The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien stated that Sauron could never again take on a fair form after Illúvatar sank Númenor.
I need to rewatch these again. These were my childhood I remember going to the theater with my grandparents to watch these! When the orcs were being “birthed” my grandma put her hands over my eyes 😂 good times
+Mst3kfanatic1 Real funny is that Elijah had never read the books..ever. Last year he was asked about it and said he still haven't read it. I'm guessing until now, he havent.
+Mst3kfanatic1 Utter shit, he was a huge fan of the books and carried one on set to make sure epic lines are being used. He says this is multiple interviews.
Dan K That's not BULLSHIT. It's fucking true. He read 'The Hobbit' when he was a child but never read the LOTR, beacuse he said it looked 'daunting'. When he got the role as Frodo, he decided to keep it that way because he wants to take a different approach to the character. Watch The Hobbit San Diego Comic Con 2014.
Jonas Moser Yeah, it was important. In the theatrical version, I always thought it was confusing that Gandalf had Frodo's mithril shirt at the Black Gate. The extended edition fixed that.
It's wild that all this lead to the idea that the eye looks right down the opening gate. I always thought that this imagery is so powerful, and it wasn't even originally planned
Loved the Witch King and Mouth of Sauron designs. They were intimidating, unnerving and disconcerting. Also when i first day the Witch King pick up the monstrosity of a mace I was like “Damn that thing is devastating.” It also puts a more physical threat to the Nazgûl. We’ve seen them before, so they needed to truly upscale the danger they pose. Up until now they seemed normal, Terrifying but not that far beyond human. Then you see him pick up and swing this spiked behemoth with one hand and you realise. This monster is very VERY strong and we have undersold this guy from his brief tenure in the first movie. The effects on the Mouth were amazing, and the minute design choices really sell the implications. The scarred, cracked, rotten and vile mouth sells the sheer corruption he speaks. And the blinded factor also implied that he exists solely AS Sauron’s more literal mouth is a touch of genius.
"Also when i first day the Witch King pick up the monstrosity of a mace I was like “Damn that thing is devastating.” It also puts a more physical threat to the Nazgûl. We’ve seen them before, so they needed to truly upscale the danger they pose. Up until now they seemed normal, Terrifying but not that far beyond human. Then you see him pick up and swing this spiked behemoth with one hand and you realise. This monster is very VERY strong and we have undersold this guy from his brief tenure in the first movie." AGREED. If you have not viewed the extended cut of Return of the King, there is a mano y mano confrontation between the Witch King and Gandalf. Let's just say that perhaps you may have edited your quote from "we have undersold this guy (the Witch King)" to "they should have left the army at home and just sent The Witch King a.k.a. Captain Badass, Naz"I will beat your punk bitch ass by merely staring in your direction" ghoul. The link is below for that scene. th-cam.com/video/cGdp5_12zW0/w-d-xo.html
This is another reason I love these films. They were opportunities for all these people to make great memories and friendships on and offscreen, not to mention we get such interesting stories about the making of them.
4:14 PJ: The Mouth of Sauron was a difficult character because you don't quite know what he is. Is he a human being? Is he an orc? *15 seconds later* Tolkien excerpt: Yet this was no Ring Wraith but a living man.
The early design for the Witch-King can still be found in the Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King video game. Always wondered why he looked differrent there
While the Sauron vs Aragorn scene wouldn't have worked, I think they could've recycled the idea of the fair form of Annatar for Battle of the Five Armies. Just imagine it: Rather than just attacking Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond and Saruman on sight, what if he appeared first as the shadow of the Necromancer and shed it in order to turn into his angelic form. As this, he preys on the weaknesses and desires of the group, bringing up things such as Galadriel's desire to keep Lothlorien safe and secure, Elrond's inability to save his wife Celebrian, and the Istaris potential for power, all in an attempt to convince them that helping him rather than opposing him would be in their interest. While most of the group are affected by this (Saruman in particular) Galadriel brushes him off, saying that he managed to deceive them once, but never again. And then it can pick up pretty much where it is in the movie.
I am very pleased that they didn't choose the option with Sauron. There are two things that made this impossible: 1. Sauron could not have a material form. As the ring was cut from his finger, all of him remained was his soul. Represented as the eye. Until he gets the ring back, he could not take a material form. 2. Sauron could not show Aragor his former form of Annatar. After Sauron did such horrible things and was defeated many times, his material form was his dark armor. He couldn't change his appearance anymore. Thank you for choosing the troll, Jackson. Best decision you could have made.
"The spikes somehow evoke the crown of thorns. I don't know quite what that means." Well, maybe it would be time to find out, seeing how the crown of thorns is a symbol standing for precisely the opposite of what the Witch King actually is. It's like putting Arwen's amulet on Sauron's neck; a complete juxtaposition of themes.
That juxtaposition is underlined by the direction of the thorns. In the passion, the thorns are being borne by Jesus - inhabiting others' sin and suffering. In LOTR, the thorns only point outward, showing the witch King's desire to dominate all life and cause suffering. To mix metaphors, it's almost a Feng shui sort of thing.
@Shoah Kahn I can see that argument, I'm split down the middle, I take it as, we have the books, and new things are exciting, to quote Steven Spielberg on the shark blowing up being seen as silly "if they were accepting of everything I've done to this point, they will accept what I do in these five minutes"
I remember, years and years ago, reading a 'spy report' from the set that swore blind that Sauron would be in the final battle. I dismissed it as BS, and when the movie came out I saw proof that it had been... *except it wasn't!* From here on I will believe every rumour I ever hear. ;-)
They improved the Witch King's appearance massively, quite honestly. I love how he looks in the movie. I also absolutely adore the logic behind removing the Sauron fight scene.
i'm in love with all this the final sauro story is amazing, it's great how much thought they put into every detail, like the mouth of sauron and Aragorn's fight. simpli amazing :)
Some people complain about some of the little twists and quarks Peter Jackson does in both LotR and the Hobbit but how he brought this entire world to life and the way he respects and honors Tolkien's vision is wonderful. I think he's earned the right to put his own personal twists here and there.
Im so happy they redesigned the WitchKing's helmet and mace. He looks way way cooler than before. And im happy they didn't turn the mouth of saurons mouth sideways. Im also happy they didn't make sauron some 14 ft tall monster. Im happy they didn't do a lot of things.
I felt sad when I saw Andrew Lesnie again. 15 years and still coming back for those appendices. Such a masterpiece, film and what happened behind the scenes.
![[DRIP] ‘Love, Maybe’ PREVIEW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U7hwHp95m1k/mqdefault.jpg)
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Elrond's weapon: Hadhafang
Gandalf's weapon: Glamdring
Aragorn's weapon: Anduril
The Witch King's weapon: Damned Heavy
Frodo's weapon: Glowstick
@@jimpickens4 Sting* its name is sting.
th-cam.com/video/qFfKnNRk2R8/w-d-xo.html
To be honest, Damned Heavy might sound cool in Quenya.
Talons knife smoll STAB
"And so Aragorn's heroism is not a one-on-one duel with a big villain. His heroism is his attempt to put his own life and the life of his troops on the line in the vague hope and dream that it somehow may give Frodo and Sam that little opportunity to help them complete their mission."
I'm glad they came around to this instead of the cliché fight against the big bad.
Orion the look on Eomer’s face when they’re getting completely encircled by Sauron’s army. So harrowing
It would have also undermined Sauron's defeat, which would have been because he was too busy fighting instead of his arrogance and lack of ability to conceive that anyone could ever willingly destroy his ring.
@@scottmaybee the irony is no one did willfully destroy the ring. Unless you count Eru stepping in at that point to give gollum a little nudge in the proper direction.
@@ryanmounce2850 Out of all of Tolkien's work, this fact is for me what cuts the deepest - that in the end, evil is inside us all, it is inescapable and despite our own will, we will not overcome it. Makes you take pause and caution your own motives in life.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
"For Frodo."
Still one of the most powerful moments of all time for me.
I got chills even hearing it on blue screen, lol.
at the end of the trilogy when the hobbits bow to the new king Aragorn, and he says You bow to no one and then bows to them...
I like the duel vs sauron ending much more than the original.
This duel should have happened while the halflings are trying to destroy the ring.
@@scottwarren4998 I understand thinking the duel is cool and interesting - but as stated in the video, it undermines too much with the characters and the overall story to sacrifice it just for some cool points.
@@tomstockman412 yes, but why not come up with this idea that sauron can take shape for 1 hour in his whole life-time when he doesnt have the ring
The witch king going "oh god" when someone helped him pick up his mace made me laugh pretty hard.
...I DIED at that moment. It was so uncanny. XD
Peter Jackson out of his mind as usual. Why on earth wouldn't Sauron himself defend his own land? if the crowd doesn't get it, then let Aragorn and Gandalf have a discussion about it before the fight.
@@scottwarren4998 because thats not what tolkien wrote and not why aragorn was there. that is respecting the lore of an author who can not defend it anymore. It is simpy honourable.
I'm honestly glad they made the Witch King's weapon so large. When I saw it for the first time I was thinking "holy mother of god, he could crush her to death with one swing." It was terrifying, and it made it that much more awesome when Eowyn defeated him.
Yup, like being hit by a truck, caving in half her body.
"It was not what Tolkien imagined. We realized it was totally demeaning to what Aragorn was doing." Thank you Mr Jackson not only for respecting the original material but bringing it to this unique form. Came back here totally ruined by Game of Thrones.
@Anonymous 2000 Hobbit was an okay watch. LoTR was extraordinary. It still is even after all these years.
Yes if Sauron fought Aragorn And died it will be the same stupid end for the Night King
But Thank God They didn't And Add a Troll
@Anonymous 2000 Now that wasn't really his fault, it had a lot of studio interference and he wasn't even supposed to direct it.
@@lich109 Well it kind of was. He came on late, admitted he was rushed, yet decided to do three films instead of two (it was Jackson's decision), and each one was incredibly long. When you are in a hurry and stretched, you don't add more work to the pile. I enjoy the Hobbit films, but it should have been one very simple movie. Not three big epics.
@@Syklonus Yeah, it should have been two movies that focus on child book tonality. It should have been closer to something like "The Neverending Story" and not do an attempt to be almost bigger than the Lord of the Rings. The Hobbit trilogy are great movies, but only the sections that are a fantasy road movie in the tone of books. All the extra fluff they have added, albeit an intriguing dive into the lore behind both trilogies, really takes away from the magic of source material. Well, and some of the fighting was just ridiculous. The movies can be fantastic, but just a scene later they might turn into a high polish fantasy cartoon for children, and then into lore that no one asked for and that should have been explored in a different context.
So Viggo Mortenson is not only a great actor but also a creative genius!
Check him out. He paints, photographer and other shit
And a very accomplished head-butter.
And he speaks like 4-7 languages!
@@THEDOORIZCLOSED Spanish, Danish, French, Catalan, Italian, and more I think
I love how collaborative this work was. Jackson clearly Listened to his cast
I really like the design of the helmet. It makes sense because you can only see the mouth, and no other parts of the face exist. He literally is The Mouth of Sauron. Genius!
QueenCloveroftheice they butchered what he was supposed to actually be.
Read the book. He's completely different from what he is in the movies
In the book they just described him as a dude in black armor. Your point?
what are you talking about? in the book he was just described as an man in a black armour, who was more cruel than any orc. which is exactly what they made him in the film. his mouth is ripped and foul because he speaks on behalf of sauron, and no mere human can do that without fouling himself. it was actually kind of brilliant how they made him look
@@harrywarden7675 improved *
Harry Warden Oh, you’re one of THOSE people.
Honestly, growing up on RPGs that massively over-exaggerate medieval armoury, I was perfectly fine with that massive morning star. Didn't think it was too big til I saw this.
Maurice K Its a flail.
Wilbur Jenkins Ok.
+Wilbur Jenkins Well the Morning Star relates to the spiked ball, so its a morning star flail. so you're both right?
TheEthanEdge Nah, a morning star is basically a mace, which are typically blunt, but a morning star has spikes. That's pretty much it's defining characteristic.
If it's on a handle, it is usually a mace or morning star, which are even kind of general categories I guess, there are tons of weapons with weird names that usually fit into the two.
If it's on a chain it is considered a type of flail. There are blunt and spiked flails.
+Maurice K Still I think as it the witch king rider, and he is to be seen as a ungodly demon. The morning star/ flail, whatever was spot on awesome. yes in set it might look big granted :) but Like they said in the film, it fitted the character and the scene.
i like seeing actors giving their own input and advice on scenes like viggo did here for peter jackson. i think it's nice when they're not just mindlessly following what the director says and instead work as a creative team together. the idea of aragorn fighting sauron is a tempting way to end the movie but i think the way they did it worked well and is much more coherent and loyal to the book
aka the original 3 star wars vs the 3 prequels. George Lucas had lots of input from his team in the first 3, in the last 3 everyone regarded him as a god of directing and trusted his judgement.
Viggo Mortensen does that. He really does his homework for movies. He did the same on a film called Eastern Promises where he gave insight which ended up changing the focus of the film because he'd researched the material. A true master of his craft.
Wish we all could say the same for GOT's season 8...
@@oystel Yeah that interview where NCW was talking to the writers about Jaime's character... Yikes.
@@oystel seriously dumb and dumber ignored everyone and made this garbage season 8
They made the right decision to not include that stupid Sauron fight. It was totally out of line with Sauron's character and, like they said, totally undermines Aragorn's true heroism. Tolkien is a brilliant writer who created a brilliant adventure, and these guys did a hell of a job bringing it to life. The mouth of Sauron was just extraordinary.
He did kind of ruin the end of the lotr books though
platypus
How can he ruin his own writings?
The Relevant Exceedings
Tolkien did not have anything to do with the movies...
Fukou da except he wrote the source material so he had everything to do with them
you dumb inbread fuck, it even says in the book "one of thise days he will come walking out the black gates himself" how the fuck is that out of character?
I'm kind of pissed The Mouth of Sauron was only included in the extended cut. The scene is fantastic.
Aragorn never would have killed a messenger, though. That's just plain unkingly and makes him look like an angry petty child. I think leaving that out was a good idea solely because of Aragorn's behavior.
headphonic8 Fair point.
I've only ever seen the extended cut of all three, and I can't imagine a single scene being removed. It just wouldn't feel like the complete movie to me.
@@headphonic8 In defence of Aragorn. A mere messenger threatening, insulting and inciting psychological damage to the opposing party isn't that much of a proper conduct either. Aragorn did nothing wrong in retaliated against a disrespectful diplomat.
@@RichterBelmont2235 Exactly - and they are trying to 'insult and provoke' Sauron, so he pays them all attention and misses Frodo
Watching this makes me wish I was a part of it. I'm jealous of the people who worked on it!
I know that feeling so well
yeah ikr
Well if it makes you feel any better, this was a hellish project. People lost a lot of sleep.
And quite a handful were injured--a lot got some minor injuries, and the stunts were dangerous.
Same
The way Aragorn says "For Frodo" and runs toward the army and his certain death is so moving, loved that scene. Shows the true depths of his courage and faith in his friends.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
@@electrictroy2010 Lord of The Rings was written between 1937 and 1949, not 100-200 years ago, so I'm not sure what your referring to. And if that's how you feel, Wait till you see The Rings of Power, 😆. Not that anyone should watch it, it stomps all over Tolkien's work.
I ended up calling it dammed heavy... Because it was.. Dammed heavy..
Best line ever xD
Juuuuuuup, you just have to laugh at it.
Poor guy, made it so heavy he couldn't even lift it with one arm xD
But damn, did it look right in the movie.
One hit and POOF, no more shield, broken arm.
th-cam.com/video/qFfKnNRk2R8/w-d-xo.html
Best line ever.... " I can smoke perfectly " Norm Macdonald
I am really really positive there is nothing more terrifying then that bloody morning star. You can tell in the movie that if that thing hits you, you're DONE
Unless you're Eowyn........
Yvane Van Velzen your argument is invalid
+Max Rockatansky You make the rest of us who actually use logic properly look bad.
+Yvane Van Velzen I believe it shattered her arm.
Deathbrewer why bae?
"And so Aragorn's heroism is not about a one-on-one duel with a big villain"
That's why The Hobbit isn't the same, and the final duel between Thorin and Azog it's so boring. There's nothing more on the play than their egos.
Luckily that whole final duel isn't in the book. The movies did a complete disservice to the original story.
Because of their egos, Erebor was taken by the dragon.. that was the point ( in my opinion), thats why Thorin died also.
@@naniaozon well yes, they touch a little bit of that theme in AUJ, but in Botfa is like the big moment is that final encounter, and they put like something heroic?
Adrian, hey, I don t know what is AUJ and neither Bofta 🤷🏼♀️
An unexpected journey and Battle of the five armies... From Peter Jackson's The Hobbit Trilogy
letting sauron take physical form without the ring would have completely destroyed the entire plot of the trilogy. thank god they didnt put that scene in the movie.
Actually he had a body whole time at the end of the return of the king weak but there.
The fuck? He returned to his comment in intervals of several months to repeat what he stated in the vague hopes that he'd get a response?
In the book he had a physical form, in the movie he didn't. The black part in the centre of the eye of Sauron is actually him trying to reenter Middle Earth.
Look, a person pretending to know what he's talking about!
NAZGUL VS ARAGON WHAT ABOUT THAT ?
Actually, the daftness of the mace *enhanced* the fantasy for me, as I was in the theater going, "Sauron never does anything small, does he?"
Sauron hands the Witch King an over sized mace. Witch King: Ah...What is this, my Lord? Sauron: *GO BIG OR GO HOME!* Witch King: (nodding head) Right!
Exactly, it's one of many great examples of Sauron's ego.
The mace terrifies me *every f*cking time* . I don't even see it as oversized or ridiculous, I see it as something that can cause a world of pain.
Same. I do remember first seeing it in the theatre and thinking "Christ that thing is huge", but I completely bought into it. It told me exactly how formidable the Witch King was as a warrior, not just a sorcerer. And the fact that you could see it even felt heavy to him but he could still wield it really sold it. Peter Jackson really knew what he was doing.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
Peters Jackson's LOTR trilogy IS perfect. It should be the yardstick against every movie to be measured, I dont care what you say in this instance, I will fight you. Come to your house and physically fight you.
Alright. Lets arrange this. Im ready with the hands. Come on.
I'm your huckleberry... :')
And I'll be your dingleberry.
appreciate ur enthusiasm m8 😂
Well, there goes two hours of studying... It was worth it though xD
Gohan, get out of your dads computer, and start studying
It's only 13 minutes
oh, lol, this is part 7
I am right there with you.. damn it :D
It's funny how the Mouth of Sauron actor becomes even MORE submerged in makeup and appliances in Revenge of the Sith
A guy named Tion Madon, you can find an image of him with Google very easily.
Holy shit hahahahaha
Bruce Spence has been in a LOT of movies. He was the gyrocopter pilot in "The Road Warrior" (1981).
@@fletch2619 The guy who meets Obi-Wan at Utapau and tells him about General Grievous.
Perhaps the wisest decision made is very interestingly discussed here: Cutting Sauron vs. Aragorn. Thank God that didn't make it in. It's such a Hollywood action moment cliche. Good on you, Pete, for ditching the idea. Thank you!
To quote Christopher Lee: "Well... thank god for that decision."
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
@@electrictroy2010Just because the story overall is good doesn't mean every aspect is.
Also, sometimes things need to change when you're going from one form of media to another.
I'm in tears looking back at this. This shows how much both the directors and actors respected Tolkien, compared to the showrunners of the Amazon series
how that last idea by Viggo was really such a smart directors approach on how to put the two side stories together... impressive off the fly.
Thank god they didn't put in that standoff between Aragorn and Sauron. It might have ruined the ending of the best movie ever.
Totaly agree.. when I first saw that Peter made this scene I gasped hard, like ``are you SERIOUS??`` what would be the point with the whole ring story then, If sauron could just appear in form anyway, what were you thinking PJ..
Kohoute Sauron did actually have a body at that time, but it was very weak without the ring.
@@darthwalrus4740 I kinda agree even though it might have worked in its own manner. If there were to be two kind of absolute climaxes at the same time; destroying the ring and Aragorn and Sauron fighting it would've been a bit distracting to which was actually the more important event taking place.
WIth the clear focus being on the destruction of the ring I think it more clearly emphasizes on the fact that the whole purpose of the journey in the first place was to destroy the Ring, not to fight Sauron, fighting the Sauron was just an later plan to give Frodo and Sam more time and take Sauron's focus out of the Mt. Doom, so I agree with dir. Jackson and you.
Kohoute you do realize Sauron had a body at the time of the final battle right? So it does make FAR more sense for Sauron to try and fight to stop the heroes.
actually i think it would have saved the comments from the book readers and the criticism about Sauron being only a big eye on top of a tower. He had a body, if they had shown that in the movie it would have fitted and everybody would have shut up. Now, all you see is a giant eye die.
I'm amazed by how much of a difference enlarging the mouth did in the Mouth of Sauron scene, that genuinely made the character so much creepier
It always amazes me in watching these outtakes with how brilliant everyone was in collaborating together to solve problems while constructing these movies, as well as how jolly the cast is in their endeavors.
Many of them faced physically strenuous work and always had such giddy outlook on their scenes even when dealing with injuries on set.
I thought how they edited the fight between Sauron and Aragorn was really fucking brilliant and clever
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
I think the point of the “ludicrously large” morning star is that it’s ultimately being wielded by a supernatural entity of great power and sever darkness, who delights in causing terror and pain in the living. Only something with unholy strength would be able to wield something so impractical; and it’s only Impractical to us because there’s no way we could wield such a thing with effectiveness. Put it in the hands of the Witch King of Angmar, and suddenly nobody would be scoffing at that thing.
I actually still remember my reaction to that scene during my first time watching RotK in the theaters: “Jesus fkin Christ...no way would I go up against something like that. She’s totally screwed.”
I’m glad that kept it the way it was. Otherwise it’d have just been another scene in the film, rather than an iconic jaw-dropping moment; a bit of a realization as to why mortals don’t fuck with a ring wraith.
Pretty much, yeah. He doesn't have muscles to stretch, he doesn't have tendons to snap, he doesn't have a shoulder-joint to strain. He can just go ham.
how did i get specifically part 7 of this recommended to me lmao
You've probably talked about something that is more of a focus on this video then the others. Like Witch King or something like that.
Cause it's damned heavy
The mace/morning star of the witch-king was perfect! I actually felt the horror of having to stand up against something like that. When he started to swing it at Eowyn all I could think of was: "Oh no one hit and she gets decimated."
The face she makes when she first sees it is genuinely hilarious.
That mace scared me more than anything else in these films
The spider did it for me.
For me, it was the Balrog. ...That scene where you can see the glow of flames beyond the corner and everybody just RUNS.
The moment when Bilbo makes a grab for the ring at Rivendell made me leap out of my seat.
true that
DeltaSilver88 the Balrog scared the living shit out of me when I was a kid. Also, thanks to Shelob, I have mild arachnophobia. 😂😂😂
"But Pete kind of knew that those 14-foot monsters very, very, very rarely ever work."
Proceeds with having Aragorn fight a 14-foot troll...
The main problem with the Annatar appearance is that it would have contradicted the story’s premise. The whole reason Sauron is opposing the Free People so directly in LotR - no tricks or schemes, just open war - is that he’s physically unable to assume a fair form after Iluvatar took his shape shifting power from him in Numenor. He’s locked in his Dark Lord form, so trickery is not an option and he has to go at it the old fashioned way. Had he still had his full power, he would’ve found way more insidious ways of conquering Gondor and Rohan than just throwing armies of Orcs at them. The whole story of LotR would’ve turned out very differently, and probably for the worse, so it would’ve never come to the Battle at the Black Gate.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
Funny fact they were so late redesigning the witch Kings helmet that this more sauron like version appears in the return of the King video game
I suppose Sala Baker might have been a tad disappointed at having been replaced by a cave troll ;p Although I agree that that fight was a stupid idea. I think Tolkien interfered from beyond the grave in this one. It would've ruined the movie and one of the greatest villains of all time. I'm really glad they cut it out.
Agreed. Jackson likes to over do things, like giving the Great Goblin testicles for a chin, and I'm glad he listened to the cast and crew while making LotR
Having Sauron come out and fight Aragorn is the kinda thing a bad video game adaptation would do. Like how you fight the Eye in Third Age.
@@NarwhalEntertainment That fight was so stupid that it went all the way around to being amazing.
Australians: “That’s not a knife... THAT’S a knife.”
New Zealanders: “That’s not a mace... THAT’S a mace.”
"But he deed, Gandalf, he deed"... why the hell was this not in the theatrical version is beyond me
A Bond at first he died, now he deed
@xellossaxon I still think there is worth in the type of irony in which the audience knows something the characters don't. Yes, we know Frodo isn't dead, but the heroes don't know that at all. They have to make a decision under our judgement and we can't do anything to stop them. Now they obviously make the right choice, which like you said, makes the scene a bit pointless, but still. It's clear why it was dropped, but it was made very well even if it didn't serve much narrative purpose other than to test the characters' will.
@@ibs_haver I agree. The other thing is: I heard people say, it was cut because Aragorn kills a messenger. Let's stop with this messenger bullshit. He is the MOUTH of Sauron and gives the heroes the information, Sauron wants them to hear. We haven't seen him having a body since the first scenes of fellowship, 3000 years ago. He isn't like a sort of messenger who brings important mail to another kingdom. He is the MOUTH of the villain, who is insulting the heroes and trying to play mindgames with them.
Every time I watch the appendices to the LotR movies, I find myself in complete awe of the creativity and the immense level of nerdiness portrayed in the making of these films. Everything was just so detailed from the costumes and makeup design to the sets and props... even the acting, the writing, and the music composition are completely on point. I kind of wish I was born 20 years earlier than I was so that I could've been a part of this incredible piece of art.
Having Sauron appear as Annatar was a really interesting idea, and the concept art and early stills make it look incredibly disturbing. Would have been cool to see in it's completed form.
But, all that said, I'm very glad they chose not to go that route. They made the right decision for both the films, and in sticking to the source material.
Would've driven the lore nerds nuts though, since Sauron can't take a beautiful form after the fall of Numenor.
@@SonofSethoitae on the one hand, yes.
On the other hand, you had the army of the dead actually fighting and defeating saurons army at Minas tirith.
Which is also impossible according to the books
It shouldn't be in the final film, but I would've loved to see the full, finished scene as a special feature.
@@boooster101 Yeah and that army of the dead concept is generally every LOTR Fan's least favorite part of the movie lol.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
“It is ludicrously large ... and you see the look on Eowyn’s face when she sees it. She’s terrified.”
😳
Well there’s some subtext that I never picked up on as a kid!
Except big shlongs aren't terrifying. Small ones are 🤣
neither a mace nor a morning star but a flail.
Well he was originally someone elses
I thought it was a damned heavy.
Friede muh flail!!!
You seriously don't know banana when you see one.... banana, now... Banana!
5:04 - a man who doesn't want to lose his job ;)
+Screech891 Spot on! xD
XD
Haha yes
Okay, can we just appreciate for a minute here the fact that Peter Jackson actively changed his script because he felt his original vision was demeaning to what Tolkien had intended? Today, very few directors would actually show such creative appreciation to the original author and just do whatever they wanted.
*COUGH COUGH* Star Wars *COUGH*
Cough cough, not filoni, cough cough
@@abnercliff9624 True, true, and not Favreau, either. I love the Clone Wars and The Mandalorian. I was mainly referring to the sequels. If you like them, that's fine, it's your opinion and it's totally valid, but I really don't like them.
"I've never been so submerged in costume, makeup, and masks, et cetera, as I have been in this."
*me, thinking of his role in Revenge of the Sith* "give it time."
Even though I'm glad they decided against the Aragorn vs. Sauron scene, having him appear as the angelic Maia Mairon and then morph into the evil Sauron was beautifully done in the my opinion. They could have even had a light moment with Gandalf saying something "Maia to Maia-like," like, oh hey, I remember you! Nice to see you again in physical form on Middle-Earth! lol
I like the idea that Sauron shows Aragorn his true nature as either a kind of taunt or even as a gesture of respect. As it is, Sauron in the films feels more like a force of nature than a character in his own right, so this would've reminded the audience that there is, or was, somebody underneath that spiky metal armor.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
@@electrictroy2010 Books are not movies. What works in a book doesn't always work in a movie. Blind adaptation is not always a good thing.
Hearing the mouth speak with a normal voice made my day ^^
"some people call it a mace, some people call it a morning star, i ended up calling it damned heavy' love that part
Movie making and production of epics like LOTR is really fascinating. Everyone has to literally "imagine" what the landscape is like when you shoot before a blue screen. I bought the LOTR trilogy on blue ray and I would rewatch it every so often. The extended versions have so much more details and context.
JUST FOLLOW THE BOOK.
I don’t know why movie makers feel the need to “improve” on books that have stood the test of time for 100-200 years. The story works as written.
Don’t change it.
@@electrictroy2010 Movies as a medium is completely different from printed words in books. I love the Tolkien books, but the LOTR trilogy is awesome. It isn't so much as "improving" on the books as it is to adapting the words into moving pictures on a much much shorter timeframe. That's why it's called ADAPTION (from books to movies), for very good reasons.
Same is true with GoT. Martin's last book is still pending, so we'll have no way to judge the GoT finale that has since come and gone. But some of the details from GRRM's books that were left out from the tv series, were good decisions. Case in point: It's a good decision to leave out Young Griff, who is almost inconsequential to the storytelling itself, it's almost like meandering.
I was always curious about the Mouth of Sauron
How did he get on with Grishnakh?
I absolutely love his creativity in the cutting room, blends different scenes for different purposes and ending up with something just great
Did you see Gimli kinda hiding behind Legolas in that one bit? XD Haha
What a labor of love. Thank you Peter Jackson, thank you!
All I can say is that Peter is brilliant and thanks so much for not destroying the story by inserting the duel with Sauron
6:59 Now that is a horse who is taking his role seriously.
Another reason why it was the right call cutting the Sauron/Aragorn fight: one aspect of it contradicts information in The Silmarillion and the appendices to The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien stated that Sauron could never again take on a fair form after Illúvatar sank Númenor.
I enjoyed this far too much. Cheers lexie!
The people who worked on these movies are some of the most dedicated people on Earth.
I need to rewatch these again. These were my childhood I remember going to the theater with my grandparents to watch these! When the orcs were being “birthed” my grandma put her hands over my eyes 😂 good times
The love and care they put in this moving is amazing.
Real funny story is that Ian Mckellan (Gandalf) had never read the books before so during shots he would always have a copy and would be reading it.
Mst3kfanatic1 Yeah! I've read that somewhere!
+Mst3kfanatic1 Real funny is that Elijah had never read the books..ever. Last year he was asked about it and said he still haven't read it. I'm guessing until now, he havent.
+Frodo Sings That's bullshit, the tapes he sent to peter to get the role, clearly shows he was a huge fan of the books.
+Mst3kfanatic1 Utter shit, he was a huge fan of the books and carried one on set to make sure epic lines are being used. He says this is multiple interviews.
Dan K
That's not BULLSHIT. It's fucking true. He read 'The Hobbit' when he was a child but never read the LOTR, beacuse he said it looked 'daunting'. When he got the role as Frodo, he decided to keep it that way because he wants to take a different approach to the character. Watch The Hobbit San Diego Comic Con 2014.
Awesome to see that it was thanks to Viggo that absolutely brilliant moment of “for Frodo”, such an emotional heartfelt scene
Wish he had remembered that bit about not what Tolkien imagined when he filmed The Hobbit.
He had no time to redo things in the hobbit because he had to take over last minute
if i'm not mistaken, the mouth of sauron was in the exctended movie
William Wennberg I remember it that way too
Yes. He was only in the extended edition. He was cut from the theatrical version.
@@andrewvincent7299 unnecessary cut. Great scene
Jonas Moser Yeah, it was important. In the theatrical version, I always thought it was confusing that Gandalf had Frodo's mithril shirt at the Black Gate. The extended edition fixed that.
Seems like a shame they put so much work into the character and then his only scene got cut
The Mouth of Sauron's horse was probably like "fuck this, leave me alone you creepy masked monster" 😂
It's wild that all this lead to the idea that the eye looks right down the opening gate. I always thought that this imagery is so powerful, and it wasn't even originally planned
Pretty sure that painting of Ungoliant and "The Witch King" is actually Melkor, not the witch king.
It is, they were saying they based their design for the Witch-King on those paintings of Morgoth
Loved the Witch King and Mouth of Sauron designs.
They were intimidating, unnerving and disconcerting.
Also when i first day the Witch King pick up the monstrosity of a mace I was like “Damn that thing is devastating.”
It also puts a more physical threat to the Nazgûl.
We’ve seen them before, so they needed to truly upscale the danger they pose.
Up until now they seemed normal, Terrifying but not that far beyond human.
Then you see him pick up and swing this spiked behemoth with one hand and you realise. This monster is very VERY strong and we have undersold this guy from his brief tenure in the first movie.
The effects on the Mouth were amazing, and the minute design choices really sell the implications.
The scarred, cracked, rotten and vile mouth sells the sheer corruption he speaks.
And the blinded factor also implied that he exists solely AS Sauron’s more literal mouth is a touch of genius.
"Also when i first day the Witch King pick up the monstrosity of a mace I was like “Damn that thing is devastating.”
It also puts a more physical threat to the Nazgûl.
We’ve seen them before, so they needed to truly upscale the danger they pose.
Up until now they seemed normal, Terrifying but not that far beyond human.
Then you see him pick up and swing this spiked behemoth with one hand and you realise. This monster is very VERY strong and we have undersold this guy from his brief tenure in the first movie."
AGREED. If you have not viewed the extended cut of Return of the King, there is a mano y mano confrontation between the Witch King and Gandalf. Let's just say that perhaps you may have edited your quote from "we have undersold this guy (the Witch King)" to "they should have left the army at home and just sent The Witch King a.k.a. Captain Badass, Naz"I will beat your punk bitch ass by merely staring in your direction" ghoul. The link is below for that scene.
th-cam.com/video/cGdp5_12zW0/w-d-xo.html
Viggo is a very underrated actor, been in some great films
Ok seriously, the way they salvaged the shots from the Sauron fights is fuckin GENIUS
It was salvaged very well. Viggo just never ceases to amaze me in behind these films’ behind the scenes clips; it was a good idea.
Man, I thought the Mouth of Sauron's mouth in the extended edition was all practical effects. I didn't know it was also enlarged 2x.
This is another reason I love these films. They were opportunities for all these people to make great memories and friendships on and offscreen, not to mention we get such interesting stories about the making of them.
the part where Annatar is shown and the music playing in background *such goosebumps*
4:14
PJ: The Mouth of Sauron was a difficult character because you don't quite know what he is. Is he a human being? Is he an orc?
*15 seconds later*
Tolkien excerpt: Yet this was no Ring Wraith but a living man.
The early design for the Witch-King can still be found in the Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King video game. Always wondered why he looked differrent there
Peter was the only one to accept that Ring Wraiths are not human and don't have "human" strength. They are literally magic.
While the Sauron vs Aragorn scene wouldn't have worked, I think they could've recycled the idea of the fair form of Annatar for Battle of the Five Armies.
Just imagine it: Rather than just attacking Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond and Saruman on sight, what if he appeared first as the shadow of the Necromancer and shed it in order to turn into his angelic form. As this, he preys on the weaknesses and desires of the group, bringing up things such as Galadriel's desire to keep Lothlorien safe and secure, Elrond's inability to save his wife Celebrian, and the Istaris potential for power, all in an attempt to convince them that helping him rather than opposing him would be in their interest.
While most of the group are affected by this (Saruman in particular) Galadriel brushes him off, saying that he managed to deceive them once, but never again.
And then it can pick up pretty much where it is in the movie.
Sauron lost the ability to appear in a fair form before the trilogy began.
Sauron lost that ability when Eru destroyed Númenor
Eru Iluvatar enlightened Peter Jackson so he made the right choices
I am very pleased that they didn't choose the option with Sauron. There are two things that made this impossible:
1. Sauron could not have a material form. As the ring was cut from his finger, all of him remained was his soul. Represented as the eye. Until he gets the ring back, he could not take a material form.
2. Sauron could not show Aragor his former form of Annatar. After Sauron did such horrible things and was defeated many times, his material form was his dark armor. He couldn't change his appearance anymore.
Thank you for choosing the troll, Jackson. Best decision you could have made.
"The spikes somehow evoke the crown of thorns. I don't know quite what that means."
Well, maybe it would be time to find out, seeing how the crown of thorns is a symbol standing for precisely the opposite of what the Witch King actually is. It's like putting Arwen's amulet on Sauron's neck; a complete juxtaposition of themes.
Morganna in the book the witch king wore a crown that just appeared to float (since he is a wraith).
That juxtaposition is underlined by the direction of the thorns. In the passion, the thorns are being borne by Jesus - inhabiting others' sin and suffering. In LOTR, the thorns only point outward, showing the witch King's desire to dominate all life and cause suffering. To mix metaphors, it's almost a Feng shui sort of thing.
I won't lie, wanna see the fight footage, but respect that he was able swollow his excitement and commit more faithfully to the story's intentions
@Shoah Kahn I can see that argument, I'm split down the middle, I take it as, we have the books, and new things are exciting, to quote Steven Spielberg on the shark blowing up being seen as silly "if they were accepting of everything I've done to this point, they will accept what I do in these five minutes"
I like how they gave so much work to NZ locals.
The design of everything in the lord of the rings movies is top notch. It immerses you in the universe in an unique way.
I remember, years and years ago, reading a 'spy report' from the set that swore blind that Sauron would be in the final battle. I dismissed it as BS, and when the movie came out I saw proof that it had been... *except it wasn't!* From here on I will believe every rumour I ever hear. ;-)
They improved the Witch King's appearance massively, quite honestly. I love how he looks in the movie. I also absolutely adore the logic behind removing the Sauron fight scene.
i'm in love with all this the final sauro story is amazing, it's great how much thought they put into every detail, like the mouth of sauron and Aragorn's fight.
simpli amazing :)
The scene with the mouth of Sauron is one of my personal favourite, his voice and design is pure genius
I ended up calling it damned heavy. lol. thanks lexie for the vids
Some people complain about some of the little twists and quarks Peter Jackson does in both LotR and the Hobbit but how he brought this entire world to life and the way he respects and honors Tolkien's vision is wonderful. I think he's earned the right to put his own personal twists here and there.
Thanks a ton for uploading these! They were great fun to watch... even more so when I was supposed to be writing term papers...
Im so happy they redesigned the WitchKing's helmet and mace. He looks way way cooler than before.
And im happy they didn't turn the mouth of saurons mouth sideways.
Im also happy they didn't make sauron some 14 ft tall monster.
Im happy they didn't do a lot of things.
I WANT A WHOLE FREAKING MOVIE SERIES ABOUT THE MOUTH OF SAURON!!!
I felt sad when I saw Andrew Lesnie again. 15 years and still coming back for those appendices. Such a masterpiece, film and what happened behind the scenes.
Glad they didn't use annatar because Sauron actually lost the ability to use that form during the sinking of númenor
This shows you that everyone has bad ideas, the important thing is to be humble enough to make adjustments
so interesting,,,,,,,,,,, i wish i could watch the whole series again!
Watch the extended versions on a weekend or something; It's totally worth it.
The giant mace makes the witch king look really powerful and strong being able to wield a giant mace with one hand
What an incredible trilogy
I bloody love that "for Frodo" moment I always imitate in when i was younger.... (even now)