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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Salvage Union is a post-apocalyptic Mech game powered by the Quest RPG that focuses on fast paced, narrative mech action with a simple and easy to learn rules set.
Set in a crumbling world similar to earth, you play as a group of salvagers who live upon a huge Mech known as a Union Crawler which houses your entire community. As you eke out survival by scouring the wastelands for salvage in your Mechs you’ll tackle the denizens of the wastes. These include bands of wastelanders, terrifying bio-titans, alien constructs and the powerful Corpos who still own the vast majority of resources within the land. Will you find enough salvage to survive in the wastes or fall prey to its many dangers?
Salvage Union uses an innovative d20 system with a variable range of resolution and combines it with an evocative and customisable set of Mech and Pilot abilities. This works in conjunction with an easy to learn crafting system which allows you to customise your Mechs with additional Systems and Modules and craft new Mechs with salvage you find in the wastes.
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I think it's kind of unfair to say Salvage Union isn't a roleplaying game.
Maybe not D&D style but I think they give you enough to RP your mech and character, just a bit more is left up to you and the GM.
I agree there could have been a bit more character development. We might tack on the Mark of the Odd system for that.
I get what you mean. But I really like the setting, and wanted to play in that setting. But the standard resolution mechanic while it could be used for Stealth, Negotiation, Fast Talking, Picking Locks, Using Computers, Figuring things out, etc. Even with the Gamesmaster giving a modifier to the dice roll for situational events or roleplaying, it's far from perfect as everyone has exactly the same chance of success.
The game can do things outside combat, but the rules for that are razor thin.
I love what they've done, but it's just not what I thought it was going to be, and not really what I wanted from the game.
A bit more is a bit light of a comment though. A lot more is left up to you. I've played rules light, I've also played the crunchiest things, and what exists in the pilot section is below rules light. You've got a dice that you might be able to push. That's negligible sadly. They could've even never introduced it. I play a lot of different systems and the pilot element is lacking. There are plenty of narrative games where pilots are more fleshed out. Beam Saber is an example of this, carrying the logical conclusion of a narrative system with a decent amount of skills that are transferable. To have no skills or stats is below even most rules light systems. If the only thing distinguishing your characters is one or two abilities.. that really is shallow sadly. Which is unfortunate because I love the mech section. Like, they took one of the weakest things about Lancer pre-KTB and made it substantially more shallow. The big deciding factor for me and mech games is does my pilot matter outside of a mech? No? I'm not interested sadly.
@@prometheanterror I guess for me and the group I mainly play with that blank space if just filled with RP we come up with that isn't based on stats. 🤷♂️
I think it would have been cool to have some more stats too, but would still consider it an RPG just with more of the heavy lifting put on the players and GM instead of the rules.
@@PossumMedic yeah I agree with this! It is definitely an RPG and having a d20 scale with ranges for all checks does make it seem like it’s lacking, but I think that makes for far more interesting RP moments. Like players aren’t just looking at their sheets thinking ‘what can I do with the highest number?’ It pushes them to really go with ‘what do I want to do?’ And then as you said, based on the dice roll and situation you go from there and it causes more of a dialogue rather than ‘well rolled a 2 with a +1 so I guess my persuasion failed.’ Where as in that with the 2-3 failed and suffer a setback in the rules, it now creates more potential RP in that the set back is the person now distrusts them and they may have to smooth things over before dealing with them again. I get that this can also be done with static modifiers but when it’s a range and left more to what the players want to do I think it always will end up more interesting.
I've heard this criticism that every character has the exact same chance of success with these sort of systems (this is based on Quest), but I feel like that's a very limited view on any given task roll in an RPG. I'm assuming this sort of comment is suggesting that two people have the same chance of, say, strong-arming a door open regardless of the character's actual "strength," but the roll is actually just to open the door. Different characters will go about this in different ways. The big strong person might try to simply bash the door in, but the weak person might try to jimmy the handle, or remove the hinges, or whatever their player might come up with. Either way, the important thing is whether the door is opened or not.
Firstly, I want to say your opinions are valid based on your point of view. As someone who is looking for a more rules-oriented and structured ruleset, I could see how you would be let down by the lack of detailed systems for interaction with the world itself.
However, in my opinion, this rules-light quality is exactly what makes salvage union so great at my table. The philosophy is very “rulings, not rules”, and relies on the players and GM to put real thought into their interaction with the world. It’s a different style of GM’ing from more crunchy systems
As I've said elsewhere I find being able to roll dice useful rather than absolutely pure storytelling and role playing, as in my group we've got players who work long hours, so sometimes are exhausted, but still want to play, so just rolling some dice keeps them involved when their brain is tired. I've got young players who sometimes don't feel confident enough to step up with their ideas, but again rolling dice allows them to stay involved. And one particular player who is very shy, and sometimes doesn't put their ideas forward as often as they should, so in a pure storytelling/roleplaying situation they might sit an entire session without putting themselves forwards.
So while I love a system which rewards roleplaying and participation, I also need a system where a player can just roll dice and still be a vital part of the story, and sadly I don't see that in the rules for Salvage Union.
I agree this is like a boardgame/roleplay mashup. In play at least for us the focus is on the Base and trying vainly to get enough scrap. The players not having stats is an issue because you can just do anything you think of and roll on the table and see what happens - with out any real way to manipulate the roll or the action at the table other then the d20 table. Its not a Fighting mech game in my experience. Its more about trying and trying to get enough salvage and avoiding the big bads which are just walking death. This had so much promise - Unfortunately the d20 PbtA adaptation just doesn't work in play. it really needs the bell curve so we are toying with converting it over to a 2d6 range or using Xd20's like Blades in the Dark (in reality I think we will just stop playing as its not out cup of tea). The main reason is you take a LOT of heat or stress or yes more heat and you just cant take that much. Also the really fun Mechs are effectively locked out to you at creation. Moreover the way salvage works mean you need to collect it so that means you need to have someone who is good at getting salvage and a Hauler type mech to store the salvage and a recon like mech quick and fast and able to find stuff you want to exploit or avoid and you also need to have a fighter mech (so essentially one player gets to have fun and everyone else needs to be sort of support) ... plus you need a mechanic to do repairs and upgrades ... and then you want to build up the base .... Oh and hacking...This would really benefit from troop play where your playing a whole bunch of "PCs" that you play in different circumstances or even playing a game of Merc's who protect the salvaging team or something.
I think I didn't really get my thoughts across clearly about it being a Mech Fighting game. It's the parts of Battletech where you're building up your mech, and the Mech is as part of your character as your character is.
Thank you very much for your feedback having played it.
Strangely I find the lack of stats to be an issue because the rules really don't let you influence the results, even though roleplaying. So the guy whose character is described as aggressive and surly, has as much chance of conning someone as the guy who's described as charming and witty.
So many great ideas in here though, but sadly not what I was looking for when I backed the kickstarter.
It is very pretty though, so I'm not too upset :D
You can't just roleplay stuff out with stats to roll. That's a bit of an oxymoron, the stat rolling overrights roleplay. You can very much RP convincing people without stats, infact it's much easier to put RP first then - it's only a bad GM that thinks you need social stats to have RP.
I think you might just be trapped in a pit of not actually being able to tell a colaborative story and RP, but rather only being able do very gamey dice resolution.
While yes you can, I personally find having rules to deal with situations helpful. I don't know about in your group, but I have a bunch of players who are articulate and imaginative, and then I've got a few players who often aren't. Those are the guys who work particularly draining jobs and don't have the energy but still want to play, the young ones who aren't confident enough roleplay it out as they feel a little silly, the shy ones who don't like putting themselves forwards. And punishing them or excluding them from playing doesn't seem right to me. Yes give a bonus for roleplaying, but I prefer it when everyone can still just throw some dice and join in and contribute.
But anyway, social skills were just an example of what you can't do in salvage union, there's no skills, so no rolls for stealth, so should I set up a nice game of hide and seek with my players to roleplay it out? For swimming do I need to set up the kids paddling pool?, for lifting that collapsed beam off their friend do I get out my old set of weights?
As a multi-generational dungeons and dragons player, I appreciate your critique, and how mechanically the game sometimes does not serve the fantasy (e.g., the witty, loot-driven pilot you aren't sure you can fully trust). However as I take a break from DnD, I am exploring more narrative games, like powered by the apocalypse and more specifically forged in the darkness games and I am trying to expand my mind beyond the mechanics. But I agree a few core skills would not have hurt.
I think Salvage Union is a titanium skeleton just begging for a some homebrew fleshing out from a dedicated GM. For example, I can totally see bio titans being a result of nuclear fallout, and you can easily enough delete the meld from your world, or just re-skin it.
I appreciated your candid review and subbed!
Thanks for the thoughtful comment, much appreciated.
What struck me, which I perhaps didn't make clear in the video, is that there's no way for the Gamesmaster to influence the rolls for roleplaying, giving bonuses or penalties for what you describe you're doing, so there's no support for players that describe out their actions and really roleplay their characters.
@@RPGGamer Great point! 🤔
Love your videos. No fancy unnessary stuff. Open, honest and forth coming.
Simple, cozy and to the point 😌
I think i'll be getting the game, even though it's not my usuall type of game. It has sparked something in me 🔧⚙🔨
Thank you for the kind words, there's a load to love in this game, even if it's not really for me, I can appreciate that it's a great game.
A fair assessment, but when I played this I was delighted to find that it wasn't the mecha 'bean keeping' ordeal that I thought it was. I felt there was plenty of room for my PC as well as their Mecha. However, I know our GM did a lot of handwaving and work behind the scenes when it come to the lack of skills etc. They were also annoyed that a lot of key events in the setting were hinted at, rather than providing a simple timeline. As much as our group of players enjoyed it, overall a little too much work to do to complete what should be a complete game.
A great GM can make any game wonderful, but the measure of a game is how much it supports anyone in making a great game. I really like what they've done, but it is spoiled by the absence of a lot of what I'd consider core to an RPG, requiring as you say a little too much work to complete the experience.
If I grabbed this system I’d make it as simple as possible to add character stats: mind, body, spirit and use the existing dice mechanic to resolve with minimal math and low modifiers. I know we shouldn’t have to do that but I think it needs it especially if the PCs are going to do any out of mech roleplaying, fighting, adventuring/exploring.
I think it could easily be houseruled into the game, with only minimal work, but it annoys me that we have to do that rather than getting a complete game.
You sum up very well what i’ve been struggling with about this game since I tried the quickstart. It’s not an RPG, it’s a tactical wargame (like Battletech and Lancer). And while I love those games, their RPG side is featherweight at best.
Yep it seems to be a Theatre of the Mind version of Battletech, and for that it's very well done. But when I bought it as an RPG, I've been sadly disappointed, especially as the guys behind it have done such interesting work in the past.
This is _kind of_ interesting. But I agree it's also a bit of a missed opportunity. Maybe they wanted to make it a game that was mostly focused on mech combat, but it would be much more grand if they had better fleshed out human characters.
I like what I've seen of the setting, the scrap economy and so on. I'm not so sure about the system itself. It's probably one of those things that you have to play to see if it's to your liking. But I can't help but think if this could be adapted to a different system, like GURPS or WEG's D6 system. Or even Savage Worlds, Free League's YZE, or Cortex. Just so that you could have more elaborate PC interactions.
I do really like the setting (apart from the alien stuff), and there are so many cool opportunities for role playing within that setting, so it's very sad there's no rules for that kind of stuff. What is there is pretty darn solid though, being able to upgrade your mech like it's part of your character is cool, and being able to get involved in improving your settlement is really nice. But it does feel like a massive chunk of the game is missing.
Good review, thanks! Not a fan of the company that wrote this but I was interested to know about the game anyway. I find that a lot of mech RPGs default to hundreds of tech choices and clunky or barebones on the rest of the rules, so it's not entirely surprising it happened here as well. Still, looks like they got a lot of choices in there.
Yep, the game is really overdeveloped in the Mech combat area, and really well developed in the player base development stuff, but the total lack of any real RPG mechanics is annoying, as I really think the world is pretty interesting and full of potential.
What's the issue with the company?
@@bgaesop search YT for the video titled: 'Leyline Press is Trash. There's your answer.
I'm seeing more and more games who focuses too much on the gimmicky side and downplay the actual roleplaying part, I really can't see any reason to take this over, say, Lancer or even Savage Worlds for that matter, the fact that the company is yet another example of spineless cowards doesn't help either, I think I will skip this one.
Seems a little harsh on Leyline, they seem pretty decent guys to me. They had a struggle to get the game out, and it was seriously late. But they did keep in touch, and did deliver all they promised (eventually).
But I do agree somewhat with you, they made an interesting game, but one which really doesn't have anything to do with Role Playing at all.
@@RPGGamer They fired an editor because he worked on LofP, decent is the last word I would use for them but I can separate the art from the artist (unlike the terminally online morons who Leyline seems to cater to), what I can't get over is lack of good gameplay and design, like you said in your review, this isn't a roleplaying game at all and as far as mech wargames, there is definitely better.