Good video. I think the main thing that still sets Traveller apart from other Science Fiction games is you get to actively design stuff - spaceships, vehicles, robots, etc - while still maintaining a highly diverse range of science fiction ideas and narratives within it. Character generation also remains a fairly unique experience too.
All strengths! And yes, Traveller is not shy about encouraging you to play around in design. There are some companies that the attitude is very much "this is OURS!"
I got the Core Rulebook just yesterday, after not seeing Traveller for 30 years. Thank you for your definition of Science Fiction. I think I finally got the difference to Fantasy. And I love both in their own way.
This is Bob, from SAFCOcast. I really enjoyed this video. Some excellent insights. I just recently got Mongoose 2e Core update and the Traveller Companion. I think it's a great version of the game, and like you said is very much like the original. I appreciate your statement that the original isn't broken. It isn't. Still a great game. One thing I love about Classic (and presumably Mongoose?) is that you can't really min-max a character. Anyway, great vid.
The only issue I've encountered so far (last night) is that corebook page references in older books don't match up with page numbers in the new edition. The index takes care of most issues.
Regarding dictatorship : in ancient Rome, the dictatorship sounded not as bad as nowadays. A dictator was nominated during hard times in order to re-establish order; the dictator was nominated for a limited time and had to give power back once his mission accomplished. I suggest that you consider this word in orca's culture as in the ancient Rome 😉
Great stuff. Obligatory comment for David Brin’s incredible Uplift series. I still read Startide Rising (like Dune) every few years just to keep it swirling around in my neurons.
00:10 Oh! I loved that cover! Uplifted/gifted Dolphins is the best, and so rare to see. I've only seen it in the Fermi Paradox video game, and in the ttrpg Blue Planet. I want to play a dolphin character in Traveller :3
Another aspect of good "Science Fiction" is less humanocentric than what you're evidently focussed on. And that is a narrative exploration of scientific theories and possibilities that are otherwise unthinkable. You mentioned "Arrival". But a key science fiction element of that story is NOT only about the challenges of "communication", but in the protagonists experience of linear time itself, as someone who is exposed to an alien species (A bit like Billy Pilgrim in Slaughterhouse 5 really.) Don't forget that the opening scene was presented as a prelude, when in fact it was her experience of her future. Other examples: A group of scientists struggling on how to prepare to communicate with a species that lives deep beneath the crushing weight of the Jovian atmosphere. An newborn infant becoming instantly self aware are quickly realizes they are living an eight to nine day lifespan among the ancestors of humans shipwrecked on a planet that accelerates natural aging. There's more out there in the universe than just the bathroom mirror and handshakes.
I would say with service, with money you would be essentially doing the same thing, just with more steps and numbers. The benefit of that would be that you basically wouldn't have to worry about inflation. State can't print money if there is no money. And you would enjoy freedom from your finances being controlled. Kinda hippie approach for sure, but it might just work for space orcas.
@@m0rtez713 Inflation actually works in favour of the one taking out the mortgage, in reality. You borrow, for example, $200,000 with a salary of $20,000 and begin making payments. Ten years of inflation and you get pay rises up to $30,000 but are still making the same payments (bearing in mind interest rate fluctuations). So you went from a mortgage of 10 times your salary to one of 6.6 times your salary.
Many are bothered by circumcision, and feel it's unethical just an FYI. Also, great insightful video review on the source book, really appreciate in depth coverage.
Absolutely. I saw views change dramatically over the 20 years I've been teaching. Times change and so do cultural attitudes. I appreciate your comment on the in-depth coverage. I don't think this style of content is "wrong." It may not be for everyone, but that's fine.
@@RPGImaginings More lore and material in a game setting is never a bad thing in my opinion. :) You as a GM and as players make use of what you want of course and shouldn't ever feel that you have to use the material.
Not to be too aggressive here, but there are some sci-fi rpgs that define "depth" as "more stats," and it is difficult for me to see that as anything other than "DND in space." Stat options to do not produce great stories. Traveller understands that. Another ttrpg TH-camr recently posted a video with an alien splatbook of another game. The "lore" portion is never greater than a single page. In Traveller you get over twenty really dense pages of lore to draw from.
I have always wanted to play Traveller, but there is no one that plays around here. Does anyone know if there are any on line groups that are looking new players? Great video😊
One of my favorite things about Traveller, not only it's a sandbox, but it uses my favorite dice mechanic, 2D6! Do you know of other early ttrpg systems that uses 2D6?
@@RPGImaginings I found that outside USA and Western Europe, D6 systems were pretty much lingua franca until about early 2000s. There were a lot of zines publishing underground systems, content and adaptations relying solely on D6s, because of import taxes and currency exchange, as it was such a niche hobby, they didn't have rpg dice factories, but every country have common dice (D6s) makers. Most systems are either dice pool (like the famous adaptation of Vampire the Masquerade), 1D6 (Like Defensores de Tóquio - 3D&T), 2D6 (the majority of homebrews) or 3D6 (a la GURPS). Imagine my surprise, having learned rpg on a 2D6 homebrew, that it was a very rare mechanic in early ttrpgs, while it was lingua franca in the 90s here in Brazil (and in 3rd world countries). Like, literally every zine had a content for 2D6, and many had 1D6 homebrews and content for 3D&T. Do you know 3D&T?
Traveller is not the only SF RPG out there. There are some quite Hard SF out there. If you go back to the early 80' there were more SF RPG out there than Fantasy. Even in part of the challenging I found games like Eclipse Phase much more interesting. Traveller is really nice, but it shows its age.
Ha ha ha. Oof. A lot of science fiction that attempts to go hyper-realistic requires a lot of disbelief suspension, eh? If there are authors in this audience: you can't hide your lack of training in professional fields no matter how much research you do. If you don't know the underlying assumptions and modes of thought, you end up telegraphing it HARD.
@RPGImaginings bury it in technobabble, that is what Star Trek does! I think writing Science Fiction is far more about keeping a things to a relativistic level of reality. Go too hard core on the science, and you will likely lose some readers, go too far into reality bending nonsense, you will lose readers (unless they like cartoons). With all things, balance is best. You can definitely study / research a lot of theoretical science and get lay down a decent narrative around that. Will it still irritate scientists? Probably, but look at all the stuff that was invented due to Star Trek making shit up!
I have been playing Traveller for 40+ years. I am not super thrilled with every Terran species being uplifted.... In my games no Orca/ Dolphins etc ... Only Vargr / Humans for Terra + the other 4 recognized primary races. With T5 Marc Miller gives you a rules set to build your own sophonts if you wish....
I'd like to meet the person who pinned you down and forced you to watch. And then when you were done watching, forced you to leave an insulting comment. That person needs to be stopped!
Interesting video. I think original Traveller had a supplement with uplifted dolphins, but I can't recall if orcas were included. Does the book you reviewed discuss what happens if a ship in outer space filled with water is breached? Would it freeze? How do they deal with boarding actions from pirates? Is it too much trouble. Never mind. I'll buy the book. I remember deciding against tattoos because it just seemed so trendy in the late 1980s among young middle class adults trying to look edgy. [Also, tattoos were too expensive for a minimum-wage worker. A pierced ear, that I could afford.] I was too cowardly for the sorts of piercings show in _Modern Primitives_, a sort of alternative culture coffee table book. Now that was eye-opening.
If you didn't want arguments about it you shouldn't have put it in the video. You don't get to voice an opinion about something then tell people you aren't interested in hearing their ideas about your opinion. BTW it is Science FICTION. Of course it has an element of fantasy. It isn't reality. Traveller is at best retrofuturism using pseudoscience as a means to describe the fiction. I've been playing the game since 1980. Like any other game it takes on the personality of its players. Some players want to play espionage games. So they spend their time in the Spinward Marches crossing swords with the Zhodani, the Sword Worlders, the Aslan and the Vargr. Or they want to explore and they play scientists or scouts. Or they want to play military campaigns during the Frontier Wars. Dealing with moral dilemmas is just another aspect of the genre. It isn't the be all end all of the genre. Startide Rising (as mentioned) is scifi, but so is Starship Troopers, and so is Flandry of Terra, or Retief, or the Stainless Steel Rat. And so is the Expanse for that matter, or Stargate, or Andromeda, or Dark Matter. Your definition seems a bit narrow.
*pinches bridge of nose* Dude. It's called setting boundaries. You should try it some time. I do this as an outlet for me. Not to appease you. I'm sure it must hurt you to hear that I'm not doing this for you. You spent all that time typing that comment, thinking we're in opposition to each other, when we could just celebrate what we like. Together. That's what bothers me. And you're demonstrating it right now. You can't just let an opinion ride. Why do you think that is?
I don't think Science fiction has to be about challenging some aspect of society. I do think the literature was originally about examining how some aspect of technology would impact society. Sometimes that examination is meant to be commentary on our current society, but most of the time I don't think it is. Most of the time it's just meant to ask what would happen if robots were in every home, or if people could read each other's minds or whatever.
You seem to be confusing "poking fun" with "degrading." I don't view them as the same level. You feel how you feel. Some people are very serious about their games. I like to poke fun at the "seriousness" some level on make-believe. I don't find "serious" make believe to be much fun.
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Good video. I think the main thing that still sets Traveller apart from other Science Fiction games is you get to actively design stuff - spaceships, vehicles, robots, etc - while still maintaining a highly diverse range of science fiction ideas and narratives within it. Character generation also remains a fairly unique experience too.
All strengths! And yes, Traveller is not shy about encouraging you to play around in design. There are some companies that the attitude is very much "this is OURS!"
there is the traveller universe. and then there is YOUR traveller universe.
This game is still around?! I played it... in 1980... when I was a kid. 40+ years. Wow.
Same I played it as well back then . It was pretty complicated compared to D and D and top secret .
Traveller is my sci-fi game of choice as well.
I'm really enjoying Traveller. I'm starting to understand why it's been going strong for so long.
I got the Core Rulebook just yesterday, after not seeing Traveller for 30 years.
Thank you for your definition of Science Fiction. I think I finally got the difference to Fantasy. And I love both in their own way.
This is Bob, from SAFCOcast. I really enjoyed this video. Some excellent insights. I just recently got Mongoose 2e Core update and the Traveller Companion. I think it's a great version of the game, and like you said is very much like the original. I appreciate your statement that the original isn't broken. It isn't. Still a great game. One thing I love about Classic (and presumably Mongoose?) is that you can't really min-max a character. Anyway, great vid.
The only issue I've encountered so far (last night) is that corebook page references in older books don't match up with page numbers in the new edition. The index takes care of most issues.
Regarding dictatorship : in ancient Rome, the dictatorship sounded not as bad as nowadays. A dictator was nominated during hard times in order to re-establish order; the dictator was nominated for a limited time and had to give power back once his mission accomplished. I suggest that you consider this word in orca's culture as in the ancient Rome 😉
Great video. Thank you for sharing.
Great stuff. Obligatory comment for David Brin’s incredible Uplift series. I still read Startide Rising (like Dune) every few years just to keep it swirling around in my neurons.
I'll check it out!
00:10 Oh! I loved that cover! Uplifted/gifted Dolphins is the best, and so rare to see. I've only seen it in the Fermi Paradox video game, and in the ttrpg Blue Planet. I want to play a dolphin character in Traveller :3
I have banned player Orcas in my game since they to big and need a state room the size of hanger bay. One of my players has one as a Ally though.
Another aspect of good "Science Fiction" is less humanocentric than what you're evidently focussed on. And that is a narrative exploration of scientific theories and possibilities that are otherwise unthinkable. You mentioned "Arrival". But a key science fiction element of that story is NOT only about the challenges of "communication", but in the protagonists experience of linear time itself, as someone who is exposed to an alien species (A bit like Billy Pilgrim in Slaughterhouse 5 really.) Don't forget that the opening scene was presented as a prelude, when in fact it was her experience of her future. Other examples: A group of scientists struggling on how to prepare to communicate with a species that lives deep beneath the crushing weight of the Jovian atmosphere. An newborn infant becoming instantly self aware are quickly realizes they are living an eight to nine day lifespan among the ancestors of humans shipwrecked on a planet that accelerates natural aging. There's more out there in the universe than just the bathroom mirror and handshakes.
Completely agree. I do these off-the-cuff so I don't always get into a deep analysis off the top of my head.
I'm unclear how one would "barter" for the 50 years of mortgage payments on a starship.
I would say with service, with money you would be essentially doing the same thing, just with more steps and numbers. The benefit of that would be that you basically wouldn't have to worry about inflation. State can't print money if there is no money. And you would enjoy freedom from your finances being controlled. Kinda hippie approach for sure, but it might just work for space orcas.
@@m0rtez713 Inflation actually works in favour of the one taking out the mortgage, in reality. You borrow, for example, $200,000 with a salary of $20,000 and begin making payments. Ten years of inflation and you get pay rises up to $30,000 but are still making the same payments (bearing in mind interest rate fluctuations). So you went from a mortgage of 10 times your salary to one of 6.6 times your salary.
I don't go up to 2 times play back speed very often but when i do, it's on this video.
Still good video though.
Well put! I am definitely a Traveler fan just so few players want to give it a shot 😢
Their loss!
Many are bothered by circumcision, and feel it's unethical just an FYI. Also, great insightful video review on the source book, really appreciate in depth coverage.
Absolutely. I saw views change dramatically over the 20 years I've been teaching. Times change and so do cultural attitudes. I appreciate your comment on the in-depth coverage. I don't think this style of content is "wrong." It may not be for everyone, but that's fine.
@@RPGImaginings More lore and material in a game setting is never a bad thing in my opinion. :) You as a GM and as players make use of what you want of course and shouldn't ever feel that you have to use the material.
Not to be too aggressive here, but there are some sci-fi rpgs that define "depth" as "more stats," and it is difficult for me to see that as anything other than "DND in space." Stat options to do not produce great stories. Traveller understands that. Another ttrpg TH-camr recently posted a video with an alien splatbook of another game. The "lore" portion is never greater than a single page. In Traveller you get over twenty really dense pages of lore to draw from.
I have always wanted to play Traveller, but there is no one that plays around here. Does anyone know if there are any on line groups that are looking new players? Great video😊
One of my favorite things about Traveller, not only it's a sandbox, but it uses my favorite dice mechanic, 2D6! Do you know of other early ttrpg systems that uses 2D6?
Pretty rare in early ttrpgs. In modern, lots of examples (Powered by the Apocalypse games, Liminal)
@@RPGImaginings I found that outside USA and Western Europe, D6 systems were pretty much lingua franca until about early 2000s. There were a lot of zines publishing underground systems, content and adaptations relying solely on D6s, because of import taxes and currency exchange, as it was such a niche hobby, they didn't have rpg dice factories, but every country have common dice (D6s) makers. Most systems are either dice pool (like the famous adaptation of Vampire the Masquerade), 1D6 (Like Defensores de Tóquio - 3D&T), 2D6 (the majority of homebrews) or 3D6 (a la GURPS). Imagine my surprise, having learned rpg on a 2D6 homebrew, that it was a very rare mechanic in early ttrpgs, while it was lingua franca in the 90s here in Brazil (and in 3rd world countries). Like, literally every zine had a content for 2D6, and many had 1D6 homebrews and content for 3D&T. Do you know 3D&T?
Zozer games: hostile rules, etc
Traveller is not the only SF RPG out there. There are some quite Hard SF out there. If you go back to the early 80' there were more SF RPG out there than Fantasy. Even in part of the challenging I found games like Eclipse Phase much more interesting. Traveller is really nice, but it shows its age.
Wow. Commenting on martian :O I couldnt make myself finish it :D (Environmental soil scientist by trade :D)
Ha ha ha. Oof. A lot of science fiction that attempts to go hyper-realistic requires a lot of disbelief suspension, eh? If there are authors in this audience: you can't hide your lack of training in professional fields no matter how much research you do. If you don't know the underlying assumptions and modes of thought, you end up telegraphing it HARD.
@@RPGImaginings Heehee. True dat :)
@RPGImaginings bury it in technobabble, that is what Star Trek does! I think writing Science Fiction is far more about keeping a things to a relativistic level of reality. Go too hard core on the science, and you will likely lose some readers, go too far into reality bending nonsense, you will lose readers (unless they like cartoons). With all things, balance is best.
You can definitely study / research a lot of theoretical science and get lay down a decent narrative around that. Will it still irritate scientists? Probably, but look at all the stuff that was invented due to Star Trek making shit up!
I have been playing Traveller for 40+ years. I am not super thrilled with every Terran species being uplifted.... In my games no Orca/ Dolphins etc ... Only Vargr / Humans for Terra + the other 4 recognized primary races. With T5 Marc Miller gives you a rules set to build your own sophonts if you wish....
The levels of vain self-gratification coming off of this guy are unheard of. I could not imagine having him at my table.
I'd like to meet the person who pinned you down and forced you to watch. And then when you were done watching, forced you to leave an insulting comment. That person needs to be stopped!
Interesting video. I think original Traveller had a supplement with uplifted dolphins, but I can't recall if orcas were included. Does the book you reviewed discuss what happens if a ship in outer space filled with water is breached? Would it freeze? How do they deal with boarding actions from pirates? Is it too much trouble. Never mind. I'll buy the book.
I remember deciding against tattoos because it just seemed so trendy in the late 1980s among young middle class adults trying to look edgy. [Also, tattoos were too expensive for a minimum-wage worker. A pierced ear, that I could afford.] I was too cowardly for the sorts of piercings show in _Modern Primitives_, a sort of alternative culture coffee table book. Now that was eye-opening.
If you didn't want arguments about it you shouldn't have put it in the video. You don't get to voice an opinion about something then tell people you aren't interested in hearing their ideas about your opinion. BTW it is Science FICTION. Of course it has an element of fantasy. It isn't reality. Traveller is at best retrofuturism using pseudoscience as a means to describe the fiction. I've been playing the game since 1980. Like any other game it takes on the personality of its players. Some players want to play espionage games. So they spend their time in the Spinward Marches crossing swords with the Zhodani, the Sword Worlders, the Aslan and the Vargr. Or they want to explore and they play scientists or scouts. Or they want to play military campaigns during the Frontier Wars. Dealing with moral dilemmas is just another aspect of the genre. It isn't the be all end all of the genre. Startide Rising (as mentioned) is scifi, but so is Starship Troopers, and so is Flandry of Terra, or Retief, or the Stainless Steel Rat. And so is the Expanse for that matter, or Stargate, or Andromeda, or Dark Matter. Your definition seems a bit narrow.
*pinches bridge of nose* Dude. It's called setting boundaries. You should try it some time. I do this as an outlet for me. Not to appease you. I'm sure it must hurt you to hear that I'm not doing this for you. You spent all that time typing that comment, thinking we're in opposition to each other, when we could just celebrate what we like. Together. That's what bothers me. And you're demonstrating it right now. You can't just let an opinion ride. Why do you think that is?
I don't think Science fiction has to be about challenging some aspect of society. I do think the literature was originally about examining how some aspect of technology would impact society. Sometimes that examination is meant to be commentary on our current society, but most of the time I don't think it is. Most of the time it's just meant to ask what would happen if robots were in every home, or if people could read each other's minds or whatever.
A lot has been written on this topic. scriptmag.com/features/sci-fi-circuit-the-purpose-and-value-of-science-fiction
Good video, at least as far as those books are a money grab... Orcas really ... In space at that. Oh my yah not in my game lol
Larry Niven had Orcas in space in Ringworld... ;P
I was fine listening until you did babyvoice insulting people that like action in space based rpgs. Degrading peoples interests is scummy.
You seem to be confusing "poking fun" with "degrading." I don't view them as the same level. You feel how you feel. Some people are very serious about their games. I like to poke fun at the "seriousness" some level on make-believe. I don't find "serious" make believe to be much fun.
Science Fiction tries to explain things like telepathy and ftl _scientifically._ Space Fantasy does not. That's the difference. Not the themes.
It is both. And Traveller does attempt to explain both of those scientifically.