Yes...with a bigger ROM and releasing it a full year later tends to have those results. Even with having a much bigger ROM (5meg vs 8meg) the differences between the two are miniscule (I own them both, right now). Had the Genesis port came with an 8meg cart at the very least they would be identical. Hmmm...I wonder what would happen if we looked at Capcom CPS1 arcade ports for both machines that released in 1990 with the same ROM size (8megs)? Strider for the Sega Genesis...that is all. ;)
@@luckyluke95 Alright, I might've been slightly hyperbolic there ;). And I of course agree that the Supergrafx-version looks a lot better than the MD-one.
Such a great game, had it when the Megadrive first came out, played the Super Grafx version much later on and I did think it looked better overall, but that is a good point you make about the playability and the MD having the 8 way movement, especially handy on the moving tongue level! Both were decent ports, especially compared to the awful offerings on home computers at the time.
Yeah, the computer versions were mostly kinda garbage despite some OK reviews back when they were new. There was a huge difference in expectations between gamers in different parts of the world in those days.
The whole point of these videos is to compare two versions and talk about all the differences between them. That's pretty much all I talk about no matter what two versions of a game are being covered. I also talk about how the games were received when they were new and in some cases what their current reputations have become in the online world. Lots of people said in the past that it was "perfect" or "almost perfect" when compared to the arcade game and while it was a great conversion there were still a lot of differences, especially with tile variety. As to whether it or the Genesis version are better, well that depends on you and what you like best about the game. I prefer the speed and sound of the Genesis game, but fully acknowledge the SGX version looks nicer. I don't think those are particularly controversial opinions, but hey, if that upsets you then this probably isn't the channel for you. Which is fine, no channel is for everyone.
You're really a glass-half-empty kind of guy, eh? The SGX port of GnG was really good. Was it perfect? No. But there wasn't an overwhelming majority trying to pass it off as perfect. Anyway, I appreciate the video. It's very detailed and it's always fun to see comparisons. You were pretty fair in your Genesis/SGX comparison.
I just try to look at the games objectively relative to power of the hardware and cart sizes of the time, etc. when doing any comparison on any platform. It's not a matter of optimism or pessimism, but it's fair to talk about how games were received by reviewers of their day. SGX did have a lot of people calling it either perfect or almost perfect in 89 and the early 90s. Glad you appreciated the video otherwise, hope you'll stick around!
I think Daimakaimura is one of the best arcade games ever made. The CPS1 hardware also had SFII Champion Edition and Final Fight. People like Strider but I don't think it's as good as the games I've mentioned. I play Super Ghouls N Ghosts on the Gameboy Advance which has a lot of nice details not in the Super Famicom version and you get to save your position. The sound is worse though. I play it on a TCL TV using an OSSC and a Gamecube with the Gameboy Player (using the SWISS software). Looks amazing.
GASP! Don't like Strider? Blasphemy, lol. I love Strider. It's one of my favorite action games ever made. Capcom really made a lot of great games during the CPS1 era. When they moved on to newer arcade hardware they focused so much on fighting games (after the success of SF2 I don't blame them), but they lost some of that magic. Thankfully they kept delivering a variety of great stuff on the home consoles throughout.
Thank you for pointing out so many of the detail missed in the SuperGrafx version. I recall EGM raving about how much better the Supergrafx version was than the Genesis version and how it was an "8 meg monolith".. I agree that the Supergrafx was a badly patched Turbografx16 but the hype it was given here in the US really amped it up more than it deserved. I eventually ended up owning a Turbografx around 91 after having the Genesis for about a year and always felt its games did not offer the fidelity that Genesis games did and it really boiled down to the hardware difference between the two systems. In those days every bit of hardware muscled counted, and it really makes you wonder why NEC did this to the Supergrafx. I think if the this game would have been made as an 8 meg cart later in the life of the Genesis, it would of been significantly better in the same fashion Strider proved to be when it was released.
Yeah, with the extra time and experience Sega had in 1990, I'm sure the Genesis version would been visually much closer to the arcade version than the retail release from 1988 (in Japan). The hack that's being worked on right now is looking real nice, even though it still suffers from color limitations. I don't think they'll be able to add Arthur's missing animation frames, either, but I don't know for sure. And the SuperGrafx... not a bad concept if they could have gotten it and its games out at the right price. But $300+ for the system and $100+ for each game was utterly ridiculous in 1990. The architecture just wasn't a big advancement over the PCE and it wasn't great at handling more sprites than a standard PCE even though in theory it could push twice as many. It was just a misstep that should have died in R&D and never been released (not unlike the 32X). For the SuperGrafx to have made sense in 1990 it really should have been closer to $150 than $300... which isn't all that crazy when you consider the PCE with almost all of the same hardware came out in 1987. But either way, that CPU just wasn't going to be adequate in a system like this.
Yeah, it's a little strange they didn't go CD-ROM only for the SuperGrafx. The price would have been high, but hey, they charged the equivalent of $700 or so when the original PCE CD-ROM attachment launched.
Not a chance; the CP-1 board was far more superior than the supergrafx; CD ROM or not That’s like saying the Genesis w/Sega CD is as powerful as a Model 1 board No console during that time was even CLOSE to a $3K arcade board It wasn’t until the NeoGeo was released that you got arcade perfect ports but how many people could afford one then; much less now😂 (j/j)
@@garfieldbennett4140 Hey, at least the Sega Genesis/Sega CD share a lot of its architecture with the CPS1 board. The Supergrafx was like an alien by comparison. Addendum- Neo Geo AES consoles aren't that expensive. No, it's the games that will cost you. I got my AES in 2008 back when you could by games relatively cheap. My cheapest game ever (and I love it) was The Super Spy. I paid 30 bucks for it and it is complete. I actually picked up quite a few early AES games in 2017 for next to nothing (Sam Sho2, Nam '75, Ninja Combat, Magician Lord, and KOM all for 50 to 60 bucks each on Ebay).
I believe for Genesis Sega had to fit it unto a small cartridge and in a very short timeframe to release in Genesis' first year. Doesn't change the fact SuperGraFX is a more arcade accurate port. There is a romhack in the works that is trying to improve Genesis port to be much better, but it's still ways away.
I remember playing this game the week it came out for the Genesis. Having something "that" close to the arcade at home was something else. Going from NES and 8-bit Atari computers to the Sega Genesis was a jaw dropping g experience! It was a great time for home gaming!
Yes, the game looks pretty nice on the SuperGrafx, but not as close to the arcade version as most people give it credit for. The upcoming hack for the Genesis/Mega Drive version for example already looks more accurate than the SGX version.
Thanks, glad you liked it! Yeah, it got a lot of credit for being closer to the arcade than it was. But they still did a great job and it was pretty impressive visually when it was new. But all that talk about arcade perfect back then? Nope.
I really like this channel. I always tried to compare the arcade games to the home ports. I'd like to see the Dreamcast version of Super Street Fighter IIX compared with the Arcade version. I think the Dreamcast version is the best one as the speed can be adjusted to normal and Gouki/Akuma has a super special move. I've tried all kinds of ways of playing it but the best way is using Flycast and the Reshade program to get scanlines. For some reason, when played via VGA and even with the DCDIGITAL mod, there's pixellation in the background when the characters move. In Flycast, it's all gone.
I may eventually get around to stuff on DC and newer systems, I just haven't had the urge because in most cases the newer systems from say Dreamcast on pretty much do everything perfectly.
@@InglebardGaming That's true. People might say I'm OCD but I do notice details. The Saturn ports of a lot of the Capcom 2D-fighting games are just meh, imo. I have them and I don't play them. The Dreamcast version of Grand Master Challenge is my favourite fighting game on any console. I had it and sold it for about $90 because it was useless to me (no RGB). It's worth a lot these days.
When that arcade mod of Mega Drive version is completed it might become the best version. I enjoy the music and gameplay there already. But the arcade has the nices graphics ofc. So a mix of the two is whats needed
NEC Avenue went what they knew how to do when they reprogram Ghouls 'n Ghosts. Like a lot of PC Engine games with black background and simple art work.
Ghouls n Ghosts on Supergraphx, I can only play on emulation. There was a huge hoopla decades ago about whether or not the feet go behind the grass in that version. Emulation seems to indicate no, but is it possibly missing a detail from real hardware? Overall, this conversion is much, much, better than Strider for Arcade Card CD, which I can actually play on real hardware. I enjoy Strider no matter what, but can't help but think that version could have been a real close if not perfect Arcade conversion, parallax aside. Ghouls n Ghosts on Genesis is nearly Arcade perfect gameplay wise, which is really all I care about. After playing it to death at home I was able to one credit the Arcade machine when I found it back in the day, it is really that close. I also prefer the real hardware Genesis music to whatever MAME does to the Arcade music. MAME, though, never has the audio quite right in my recollection. That, or having a speaker inches from my head just can't be replicated on PCs.
The sound fx are satisfying as hell in the arcade game, and the Genesis can nail that perfectly. To me, the sound is a huge part of the fun of the game. The Supergrafx just can't do those kind of sound fx quite right.
Be careful where you say such things. ;) Really though, with enough ROM space the PCE/SuperGrafx should be able to use samples on par with anything from the time. It's the standard chiptunes that seem a little flat to me.
I haven't seen Ghouls running on real SuperGrafx hardware in MANY years, so I don't remember that exact detail. But yeah,. it's a way better port then PCE CD Strider. I imagine slowdown woulda been crazy in a SuperGrafx port of Strider, but who knows for sure? And definitely with everyone that prefers the sound in the Genesis port of GnG. I thought I'd be alone in that, nice to see some others agreeing!
@@InglebardGaming cool I'll definitely watch. I played 68000 on my super console x emulator and it has some pretty awesome stuff. The Ghouls n Ghost game on it is one of the better looking versions if I remember correctly.
Thanks, glad you liked it! I'll probably do a little more like this later this year. I'm also thinking of doing more videos like I did on the Sega games on both systems but for other companies like possibly Capcom or Taito.
both Versions are great but I grew up with the Sega Genesis version of the game. Because of this fact I have a soft spot for it, and also the music on the Sega game melts my heart. Great video
I always loved the genesis port the best because the gameplay was better than the other versions despite the graphical downgrade. I think had it been a larger rom cart size it was a launch title at the tine, Sega could have made it more arcade accurate.
Yeah, a slightly larger cart would have allowed them to include a lot of the missing tiles. Still, for such an early game on brand new hardware, they did a fantastic job on it!
Thanks sorry for late reply, been really sick. The SuperGrafx one is definitely good, but the music and slower gameplay knock it down a notch for me. Still absolutely worth playing, definitely not worth the almost $100 they charged for the GAME back in the day, IMO.
@@InglebardGamingSorry to hear about the ill health. Hopefully you're on the mend!! Had a copy of Supergrafx Ghouls & Ghosts myself without ever owning the actual machine. Sadly, I sold it when I thinned out my collection which also included many sealed Dreamcast games including the likes of an unopened Evil Twin. Should have kept that one as well! Interesting comment about the gameplay and how the Mega drive/Genesis version trumps it. . . . .speaking of which, that Arcade Hack looks to be something special!
The only real shortcoming of the NEC Super GraFX is in hindsight because originally NEC/Hudson Soft PC Engine was doing very well in Japan and they wanted to launch PC Engine to North America in 1988. Had NEC delayed their plans and by 1989 instead shift to sending the Super GraFX (remember PC Engine launched in Japan in 1987 so by 1989 it could not be a true full next gen hardware but an extension by adding the second graphics chip) to the U.S.A. as opposed to the disaster of how the Turbo GraFX 16 was launched and handled. It's not wise to just dismiss the Super GraFX or even the PC Engine as is typical of most Sega fans since EGM wrote an article with material that was rumored to come from Sega of Amerca's staff since 1989 or 1990. Yes the CPU is "eight bit", it does not change the clock speed and efficiency and does not change the fact that the graphics chipset or with dual graphics is what actually draws the graphics you see on the screen. Sega Saturn, 32X, 3DO REAL, AmigaCD32, Sony PlayStation and Sega Dreamcast all had 32bit CPUs... does that mean we can just crap all over Dreamcast other than the fact that it never should have been made? Even the Intel Pentium/Celeron CPU variant was a 32 bit CPU,,, in the 2001 Xbot.
Is this the hill you'd die on? Defending an overpriced, underpowered system that was abandoned by its manufacturer after only five games were produced? The system cost over $300 at its time of release in Japan. That's over $100 more than a Mega Drive at that time. It was also about $100 more than Nintendo would end up charging for the Super Famicom about a year later. Can you argue that was a fair price for the level of power it offered? And there's way more to any processor than just its clock speed. That's why in many tasks a 1mhz 6502 can keep up with a 3.58mhz Z80. Even in more modern terms there were Pentium 4s that had higher clock speeds than some i7 chips, but still performed dramatically worse. The 6502 variant in the SuperGrafx, the exact same one in the PCE, was not built to drive the hardware present in the SuperGrafx. Especially not at 7mhz. Did the system have potential for some great games? Sure. Almost any system does. But it was ill conceived from the start. The architecture wasn't optimal for quickly pushing around a lot of large sprites. The slowdown and flicker in GnG is more than proof of the shortcomings of the architecture. And aside from the parallax layer, what do you see in this game that a standard PCE couldn't have handled? Sometimes companies put out hardware they shouldn't have. They've all done it. For Sega it was the 32X. Nintendo had the Virtual Boy. MS had the Zune and Kinnect. Sony had the Eye Toy and PS Move. The SuperGrafx was just something that NEC shouldn't have brought to retail. Maybe if they could have done it for $150 they would have had something. But at $300 with its limited capabilities and $100 games... it had no chance of success.
For me, it's like comparing the game on the Genesis and the Master system. I'm sorry but... I found the Genesis ugly af, everything is align in a weird way, like stacked... Some enemies are smaller for no reason and less detailed, there are animations missing and the music is weird on Genesis and the sound effects omg... I guess all is about the rom size but that doesn't excuse the music quality.
I completely disagree, but if that's you're opinion, that's fine. Have you seen the work in progress rom hack for the Genesis version that dramatically updates the backgrounds yet? They only have the first level and about half of the second done so far but it's looking great so far. Also disagree about the music, I think the Genesis version has the best music of all of them. Some of the instruments in the arcade game are a little weird and the ones in the SuperGrafx version are mostly just bad, IMO.
Your gaming experience on a Sega Genesis will vary with the version and revision of the system as well as if you are actually using stereo cables and not RF. Keep in mind that as a Japanese Sega MegaDrive conversion, Ghosts n Ghouls was a first year game, noting that MD was launched in 1988 and the Genesis a year later. Essentially it is first year software plus the fact cost of ROM was a big factor in 1988 and 89 and it took until 1990 for the first 8 Megabit ROM Cartridge to appear. Thus even if the Japanese wanted to launch in 1988 or even 89 with 8 Megabit ROM Cartridges, it was just physicially and financially impossible. NEC's version showed up much later as a game targeting the Sega MegaDrive version, at least in Japan because of unfortunate planning where they could have maybe launched the NEC Super GraFX here in North America 1989 even if $400 USD instead of the Turbo GraFX 16. Also note that arcade boards inside the arcade cabinets, like the Capcom System 1 or CPS1 board would have cost in excess of over at least $1,000 USD if Capcom had somehow planned to launch a home consumer version of the CPS1. I say this because technically the Sega MegaDrive 1988 hardware is low cost, mass production hardware while the 1990 S.N.K. NeoGeo AES was a Japanese rental only affair and that system retailed around $700 USD by 1991. Therefore just dismissing the Genesis (unless you own one of the couple of bad hardware versions made after Tom Kalinske got hired) or even the Super Nintendo games of the time is a bad idea.
I never knew exactly what upgrades the Super-Grafx had over the TG-16 until you told us. Thank you! You have a great eye for detail and I appreciate your comparison methods. I found myself pausing your video quite a lot to deeply compare the small detail differences. Keep up the great work!
@@InglebardGaming Oh I am now well aware. I'm currently viewing your Strider Arcade vs Genesis video. I've been looking at it for the past hour and I'm only halfway through because I keep pausing it every couple of seconds to look at the little detail differences. I had to take a break because my eyes are now bugging out on me 😮😄
You should see the Sega Genesis hack game and make a comparison and you will see the graphical power that the Sega Genesis hid at that time. Sega did not have good game programmers.
I have seen and shown the Genesis hack in progress. Sega's programmers were fine at the time, exemplary even. They had a tiny little 5 megabit cartridge (that's 640 kilobytes) to work with in 1988 and this was one of the first games developed for the system. I'm sure if the game had come out a year later on a larger cartridge, it would have been more accurate, like Strider.
The size of the cart is the limitation otherwise they would have to increase the price like Strider. you can see tons of bitmaps tiles being reused and frames missing mostly from enemies, the colors is also another limit but its not that noticable if done well
Thanks for the great review. I was surprised when I firs saw the how little details the Genesis version has compared to the Supergrafx version. Surely the best home port, but nothing like the arcade version.
The Japanese version was rushed to market for the release of the console hence why it was not polished it was basically thrown together just to get it on the market sadly they did no justice to the MegaDrives true ability there is a lad on youtube single handedly recreating the MegaDrive Genesis game to be as near as he can get it with the limited V Ram of the MegaDrive console yet he is doing an awesome job just it is taking him a few years so far look for a channel on youtube called aMaru and you will see the true ability of the MegaDrive / Genesis console
...what a takeaway. Yes, I can see the dripping sarcasm, but the point here is that while the port is really good it has a reputation for being "perfect" that isn't warranted.
@@InglebardGaming My dude. Literally no one called it perfect. They called it "good." If you can cite a review where it's called perfect, I'll gladly concede.
Here you go, took about 10 seconds. Hardcore Gamer magazine said it was pixel perfect and the only thing not perfect was the sound: archive.org/stream/hardcore-gamer-magazine-v1i9/0109_March_06_Grandia_III_djvu.txt
That's one review. And I think you're taking this person's use of "perfect" a little too literally, since he then goes on to describe all of the flaws. And again, it's one review.
@@InglebardGaming I see some Megadrive bias in your stuff. I do watch it though. I always though the colour palette on P.C Engine made it better suited for arcade conversions than Megadrive. Also maybe you could show some actually good Amiga stuff eh? On a legit PAL display at 50hz, not just badly made arcade conversions. that don't run at 50 fps.
Most of the issues raised have little to with the system's capabilities and more to do with the size of the HuCard used. For having less than half of the storage of the arcade and the fact that you'd likely be playing this on a 1980s consumer-grade CRT through composite, it's pretty easy to see why people were so impressed with it.
Have to disagree there. The slowdown and mediocre sound have nothing to do with the storage capacity. The stiff control and slower gameplay have nothing to do with storage capacity. Those are the biggest issues. The missing tiles ARE most likely related to the capacity, but that's about it.
I really hate the color in the Supergrafx version. If the MD version used an 8mbit cart it would have destroyed that version, because they took out a lot of the graphics to fit it on 5mbit
The upcoming arcade hack for the Genesis version looks great so far... it's just a little too limited by the Genesis' color palette, but otherwise it looks really close to the arcade version.
You can play that "what if" game and go in circles. If NEC decided to go for a 20 mbit cart, like SFII CE on the PC Engine, it would have blown the hypothetical 8 mbit Genny cart out of the water.
EDIT/Note: I removed a comment from someone that was either incredibly wrong or a troll from here. They tried to say that the Genesis only had cart sizes in the early days of 4 and 8 megabits with nothing in-between. They also said it while being very confidently wrong and a total jerk. They were, of course, factually wrong (Ghouls'n Ghosts is indeed 5 megabit on Genesis, the game is 640 kb and Phantasy Star II is 6 megabit or 768kb) and this is easily provable by either looking at the rom sizes in your operating system of choice or by doing a quick Google search.
yup, but the SGX could have done do that too, if the developers had a bigger Hu-Card, the SGX is a more powerful system than the Megadrive/Genesis and even the super Famicom.
The Supergrafx is a cool system, but it absolutely wasn't worth the 300 dollars they asked for. Had it come out in 1990 with a faster CPU and enhanced audio it would've stood a chance against its 16-bit rivals
It was way too expensive for what you got. Likewise for the games. The power just wasn't there, which led to the games not being there, which led to, well, the AUDIENCE not being there.
@@InglebardGaming The SGX "power" didn't really have much to do with its lack of success. The PCE was less "powerful", but was hugely successful. And that's why the SGX didn't catch on. The PCE was plenty powerful to compete with the Genesis/Mega Drive and the Super Famicon/SNES, so why would people want to bother upgrading? And what does it's lack of "power" have to do with game support? Again, the PCE was less "powerful", but had a massive library. Honestly, the PCE could have pulled GnG off with a 20mbit HuCard. Capcom did it with SFII CE, and it's arguably the best port between the SNES and Genesis. At the very least it's comparable. I'd say it's better than the Genesis port, but you'd have to start splitting hairs with the SNES port.
The PC engine doesn't really need a faster CPU. Perhaps being 16-bit could help but then the only option at the time would have been the 65816, which has other problems. It's already competitive and arguably faster than the snes overall. Harder to compare to the genesis, but slowdown is rare on it. The supergrafx also has somewhat enhanced audio (reduced clicks for wavetable cycling, and taking full advantage of this lets you play PCM samples with much lower CPU overhead.) It probably wasn't worth $300 though, I agree there. But the extra chips probably forced that.
i have the genesis mini and the tg16 mini and the control response and playability is far superior on the genesis version, although the tg16 looks a little better, the genesis better play control made it more fun
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I Love the Super Grafx version it’s better then the Genesis
Yes...with a bigger ROM and releasing it a full year later tends to have those results. Even with having a much bigger ROM (5meg vs 8meg) the differences between the two are miniscule (I own them both, right now). Had the Genesis port came with an 8meg cart at the very least they would be identical.
Hmmm...I wonder what would happen if we looked at Capcom CPS1 arcade ports for both machines that released in 1990 with the same ROM size (8megs)? Strider for the Sega Genesis...that is all. ;)
The Sharp X68000 version was the best also Super Ghouls N Ghosts simply best them all. SuperGrafx was a major failure with only 4 games.
Great video. You enjoy comparing details like I do. Have you seen the Ghouls N Ghost Remake by Amaru? Check it out if you haven't. It's awesome.
Yup, looks great so far, I've talked about it in a few other comments 😁
Supergrafx version is better than Megadrive version 😍😍😍
It clearly looks a lot better! But the sound is worse on the supergrafx, the sound effects are horrible.
@@felixfranzen7578 not horrible, it’s ok, don’t be so hard please
@@luckyluke95 Alright, I might've been slightly hyperbolic there ;). And I of course agree that the Supergrafx-version looks a lot better than the MD-one.
@@felixfranzen7578 thanks 👍👍👍
@@tolani05 i agree too
I prefer the SuperGrafx version over the MD/Genesis version
SuperGrafx for the win. While I am better at the Genesis version (its less difficult) the SuperGrafx is a better port overall.
Such a great game, had it when the Megadrive first came out, played the Super Grafx version much later on and I did think it looked better overall, but that is a good point you make about the playability and the MD having the 8 way movement, especially handy on the moving tongue level! Both were decent ports, especially compared to the awful offerings on home computers at the time.
Yeah, the computer versions were mostly kinda garbage despite some OK reviews back when they were new. There was a huge difference in expectations between gamers in different parts of the world in those days.
Supgrafx is better than the original genesis port.
You are too picky!!! You should marvel the fact that an 8 bit chip is rivaling a 16bit chip arcade!!!
The whole point of these videos is to compare two versions and talk about all the differences between them. That's pretty much all I talk about no matter what two versions of a game are being covered. I also talk about how the games were received when they were new and in some cases what their current reputations have become in the online world. Lots of people said in the past that it was "perfect" or "almost perfect" when compared to the arcade game and while it was a great conversion there were still a lot of differences, especially with tile variety.
As to whether it or the Genesis version are better, well that depends on you and what you like best about the game. I prefer the speed and sound of the Genesis game, but fully acknowledge the SGX version looks nicer. I don't think those are particularly controversial opinions, but hey, if that upsets you then this probably isn't the channel for you. Which is fine, no channel is for everyone.
You kept bitching about the music. Over and over. @@InglebardGaming
You're really a glass-half-empty kind of guy, eh? The SGX port of GnG was really good. Was it perfect? No. But there wasn't an overwhelming majority trying to pass it off as perfect. Anyway, I appreciate the video. It's very detailed and it's always fun to see comparisons. You were pretty fair in your Genesis/SGX comparison.
I just try to look at the games objectively relative to power of the hardware and cart sizes of the time, etc. when doing any comparison on any platform.
It's not a matter of optimism or pessimism, but it's fair to talk about how games were received by reviewers of their day. SGX did have a lot of people calling it either perfect or almost perfect in 89 and the early 90s.
Glad you appreciated the video otherwise, hope you'll stick around!
I think Daimakaimura is one of the best arcade games ever made. The CPS1 hardware also had SFII Champion Edition and Final Fight. People like Strider but I don't think it's as good as the games I've mentioned. I play Super Ghouls N Ghosts on the Gameboy Advance which has a lot of nice details not in the Super Famicom version and you get to save your position. The sound is worse though. I play it on a TCL TV using an OSSC and a Gamecube with the Gameboy Player (using the SWISS software). Looks amazing.
GASP! Don't like Strider? Blasphemy, lol. I love Strider. It's one of my favorite action games ever made. Capcom really made a lot of great games during the CPS1 era. When they moved on to newer arcade hardware they focused so much on fighting games (after the success of SF2 I don't blame them), but they lost some of that magic. Thankfully they kept delivering a variety of great stuff on the home consoles throughout.
Thank you for pointing out so many of the detail missed in the SuperGrafx version. I recall EGM raving about how much better the Supergrafx version was than the Genesis version and how it was an "8 meg monolith".. I agree that the Supergrafx was a badly patched Turbografx16 but the hype it was given here in the US really amped it up more than it deserved. I eventually ended up owning a Turbografx around 91 after having the Genesis for about a year and always felt its games did not offer the fidelity that Genesis games did and it really boiled down to the hardware difference between the two systems. In those days every bit of hardware muscled counted, and it really makes you wonder why NEC did this to the Supergrafx.
I think if the this game would have been made as an 8 meg cart later in the life of the Genesis, it would of been significantly better in the same fashion Strider proved to be when it was released.
Yeah, with the extra time and experience Sega had in 1990, I'm sure the Genesis version would been visually much closer to the arcade version than the retail release from 1988 (in Japan). The hack that's being worked on right now is looking real nice, even though it still suffers from color limitations. I don't think they'll be able to add Arthur's missing animation frames, either, but I don't know for sure.
And the SuperGrafx... not a bad concept if they could have gotten it and its games out at the right price. But $300+ for the system and $100+ for each game was utterly ridiculous in 1990. The architecture just wasn't a big advancement over the PCE and it wasn't great at handling more sprites than a standard PCE even though in theory it could push twice as many. It was just a misstep that should have died in R&D and never been released (not unlike the 32X). For the SuperGrafx to have made sense in 1990 it really should have been closer to $150 than $300... which isn't all that crazy when you consider the PCE with almost all of the same hardware came out in 1987. But either way, that CPU just wasn't going to be adequate in a system like this.
@@InglebardGamingupgrade consoles never work out. Since they uses souped up hardware from the original console.
Had the SGX used the CDrom2 system instead of a tiny Hu-Card the game could have ended up looking way more accurate to the arcade.
Yeah, it's a little strange they didn't go CD-ROM only for the SuperGrafx. The price would have been high, but hey, they charged the equivalent of $700 or so when the original PCE CD-ROM attachment launched.
Not a chance; the CP-1 board was far more superior than the supergrafx; CD ROM or not That’s like saying the Genesis w/Sega CD is as powerful as a Model 1 board
No console during that time was even CLOSE to a $3K arcade board It wasn’t until the NeoGeo was released that you got arcade perfect ports but how many people could afford one then; much less now😂 (j/j)
@@InglebardGaming cd is limited on parallax layers.
@@garfieldbennett4140
Hey, at least the Sega Genesis/Sega CD share a lot of its architecture with the CPS1 board. The Supergrafx was like an alien by comparison.
Addendum- Neo Geo AES consoles aren't that expensive. No, it's the games that will cost you. I got my AES in 2008 back when you could by games relatively cheap. My cheapest game ever (and I love it) was The Super Spy. I paid 30 bucks for it and it is complete. I actually picked up quite a few early AES games in 2017 for next to nothing (Sam Sho2, Nam '75, Ninja Combat, Magician Lord, and KOM all for 50 to 60 bucks each on Ebay).
The game was rushed to market on the Japanese MegaDrive for release of the console hence why it was not polished
Please do an arcade comparison to the Sega Saturn versions on Capcom Generations 2 :)
I believe for Genesis Sega had to fit it unto a small cartridge and in a very short timeframe to release in Genesis' first year. Doesn't change the fact SuperGraFX is a more arcade accurate port.
There is a romhack in the works that is trying to improve Genesis port to be much better, but it's still ways away.
I remember playing this game the week it came out for the Genesis. Having something "that" close to the arcade at home was something else. Going from NES and 8-bit Atari computers to the Sega Genesis was a jaw dropping g experience! It was a great time for home gaming!
SuperGrafx版を褒める人はアーケード版とメガドライブ版をプレイしていない人達。
地形の起伏や敵の出現タイミング、アーサーの操作性といったゲームの本質部分を比べるべき。
SuperGrafx版の美点は他人がプレイした動画を無音で鑑賞した時と雑誌の記事(印刷物)で示されている。
メガドライブ版の欠点は5Mbitであること。
グラフィックに関してはデモ・背景・敵とあらゆる面で簡略化されている。
遊ぶならメガドライブ、眺めるならSuperGrafxという事で…
Yes, the game looks pretty nice on the SuperGrafx, but not as close to the arcade version as most people give it credit for. The upcoming hack for the Genesis/Mega Drive version for example already looks more accurate than the SGX version.
@@InglebardGaming but better than Megdrive, which was the goal
Thats the least pointless comparison i ve ever seen...keep up bro! I never realized how inferior to the arcade was the SG port...wow :O
Thanks, glad you liked it! Yeah, it got a lot of credit for being closer to the arcade than it was. But they still did a great job and it was pretty impressive visually when it was new. But all that talk about arcade perfect back then? Nope.
Hey, I didn't think the Gen/SGX comparison was so nuanced. Thanks for this not-so-pointless comparison.
No worries! NP, thanks for watching!
Seems to me they ported the game as best the NEC & Genesis console hardwares would allow at the time.
I really like this channel. I always tried to compare the arcade games to the home ports. I'd like to see the Dreamcast version of Super Street Fighter IIX compared with the Arcade version. I think the Dreamcast version is the best one as the speed can be adjusted to normal and Gouki/Akuma has a super special move. I've tried all kinds of ways of playing it but the best way is using Flycast and the Reshade program to get scanlines. For some reason, when played via VGA and even with the DCDIGITAL mod, there's pixellation in the background when the characters move. In Flycast, it's all gone.
I may eventually get around to stuff on DC and newer systems, I just haven't had the urge because in most cases the newer systems from say Dreamcast on pretty much do everything perfectly.
@@InglebardGaming
That's true. People might say I'm OCD but I do notice details. The Saturn ports of a lot of the Capcom 2D-fighting games are just meh, imo. I have them and I don't play them. The Dreamcast version of Grand Master Challenge is my favourite fighting game on any console. I had it and sold it for about $90 because it was useless to me (no RGB). It's worth a lot these days.
When that arcade mod of Mega Drive version is completed it might become the best version. I enjoy the music and gameplay there already. But the arcade has the nices graphics ofc. So a mix of the two is whats needed
Yeah, that mod's looking great so far, can't wait to see more of it!
The NEC version plays the worst because your character stops when you accidently press down while running... It's a beautyful port though!
The only thing the supergrafx did accurate was the "Congraturation" at the end lol
Ha, yeah, kinda hilarious, since that's the only english in the ending, too!
NEC Avenue went what they knew how to do when they reprogram Ghouls 'n Ghosts. Like a lot of PC Engine games with black background and simple art work.
Ghouls n Ghosts on Supergraphx, I can only play on emulation. There was a huge hoopla decades ago about whether or not the feet go behind the grass in that version. Emulation seems to indicate no, but is it possibly missing a detail from real hardware? Overall, this conversion is much, much, better than Strider for Arcade Card CD, which I can actually play on real hardware. I enjoy Strider no matter what, but can't help but think that version could have been a real close if not perfect Arcade conversion, parallax aside.
Ghouls n Ghosts on Genesis is nearly Arcade perfect gameplay wise, which is really all I care about. After playing it to death at home I was able to one credit the Arcade machine when I found it back in the day, it is really that close. I also prefer the real hardware Genesis music to whatever MAME does to the Arcade music. MAME, though, never has the audio quite right in my recollection. That, or having a speaker inches from my head just can't be replicated on PCs.
The sound fx are satisfying as hell in the arcade game, and the Genesis can nail that perfectly. To me, the sound is a huge part of the fun of the game. The Supergrafx just can't do those kind of sound fx quite right.
Be careful where you say such things. ;)
Really though, with enough ROM space the PCE/SuperGrafx should be able to use samples on par with anything from the time. It's the standard chiptunes that seem a little flat to me.
I haven't seen Ghouls running on real SuperGrafx hardware in MANY years, so I don't remember that exact detail. But yeah,. it's a way better port then PCE CD Strider. I imagine slowdown woulda been crazy in a SuperGrafx port of Strider, but who knows for sure?
And definitely with everyone that prefers the sound in the Genesis port of GnG. I thought I'd be alone in that, nice to see some others agreeing!
What about the x68000 version. This is my favorite game of all time. Great video and very well done ty sir.
Thanks. I might take a look at some x68k games down the road.
@@InglebardGaming cool I'll definitely watch. I played 68000 on my super console x emulator and it has some pretty awesome stuff. The Ghouls n Ghost game on it is one of the better looking versions if I remember correctly.
Adding the Saturn port to the comparison would be interesting.
I hope to feature Saturn games more this year. We'll see!
And the X68000.
As a new Supergrafx owner, this video is EXACTLY what I was looking for!
Some killer gameplay + an excellent comparison video! I def wanna see more of these TG16 vs Genesis, per-game, comparisons 👍
Thanks, glad you liked it! I'll probably do a little more like this later this year. I'm also thinking of doing more videos like I did on the Sega games on both systems but for other companies like possibly Capcom or Taito.
both Versions are great but I grew up with the Sega Genesis version of the game. Because of this fact I have a soft spot for it, and also the music on the Sega game melts my heart. Great video
Thanks, and yeah, I agree both versions were definitely well done for when they came out!
I always loved the genesis port the best because the gameplay was better than the other versions despite the graphical downgrade. I think had it been a larger rom cart size it was a launch title at the tine, Sega could have made it more arcade accurate.
Yeah, a slightly larger cart would have allowed them to include a lot of the missing tiles. Still, for such an early game on brand new hardware, they did a fantastic job on it!
The J. Arthur Incredible Toons Sega Saturn game is so addictive. Try that one.
Love these kinds of videos. Nice job. Maybe a little 'too' critical to the Supergrafx version at times is my only light criticism . . . .
Thanks sorry for late reply, been really sick. The SuperGrafx one is definitely good, but the music and slower gameplay knock it down a notch for me. Still absolutely worth playing, definitely not worth the almost $100 they charged for the GAME back in the day, IMO.
@@InglebardGamingSorry to hear about the ill health. Hopefully you're on the mend!!
Had a copy of Supergrafx Ghouls & Ghosts myself without ever owning the actual machine. Sadly, I sold it when I thinned out my collection which also included many sealed Dreamcast games including the likes of an unopened Evil Twin. Should have kept that one as well!
Interesting comment about the gameplay and how the Mega drive/Genesis version trumps it. . . . .speaking of which, that Arcade Hack looks to be something special!
Love these comparison videos. Keep them coming my brother
Thanks, glad you like them!
The only real shortcoming of the NEC Super GraFX is in hindsight because originally NEC/Hudson Soft PC Engine was doing very well in Japan and they wanted to launch PC Engine to North America in 1988.
Had NEC delayed their plans and by 1989 instead shift to sending the Super GraFX (remember PC Engine launched in Japan in 1987 so by 1989 it could not be a true full next gen hardware but an extension by adding the second graphics chip) to the U.S.A. as opposed to the disaster of how the Turbo GraFX 16 was launched and handled.
It's not wise to just dismiss the Super GraFX or even the PC Engine as is typical of most Sega fans since EGM wrote an article with material that was rumored to come from Sega of Amerca's staff since 1989 or 1990. Yes the CPU is "eight bit", it does not change the clock speed and efficiency and does not change the fact that the graphics chipset or with dual graphics is what actually draws the graphics you see on the screen.
Sega Saturn, 32X, 3DO REAL, AmigaCD32, Sony PlayStation and Sega Dreamcast all had 32bit CPUs... does that mean we can just crap all over Dreamcast other than the fact that it never should have been made? Even the Intel Pentium/Celeron CPU variant was a 32 bit CPU,,, in the 2001 Xbot.
Is this the hill you'd die on? Defending an overpriced, underpowered system that was abandoned by its manufacturer after only five games were produced?
The system cost over $300 at its time of release in Japan. That's over $100 more than a Mega Drive at that time. It was also about $100 more than Nintendo would end up charging for the Super Famicom about a year later. Can you argue that was a fair price for the level of power it offered?
And there's way more to any processor than just its clock speed. That's why in many tasks a 1mhz 6502 can keep up with a 3.58mhz Z80. Even in more modern terms there were Pentium 4s that had higher clock speeds than some i7 chips, but still performed dramatically worse. The 6502 variant in the SuperGrafx, the exact same one in the PCE, was not built to drive the hardware present in the SuperGrafx. Especially not at 7mhz.
Did the system have potential for some great games? Sure. Almost any system does. But it was ill conceived from the start. The architecture wasn't optimal for quickly pushing around a lot of large sprites. The slowdown and flicker in GnG is more than proof of the shortcomings of the architecture. And aside from the parallax layer, what do you see in this game that a standard PCE couldn't have handled?
Sometimes companies put out hardware they shouldn't have. They've all done it. For Sega it was the 32X. Nintendo had the Virtual Boy. MS had the Zune and Kinnect. Sony had the Eye Toy and PS Move. The SuperGrafx was just something that NEC shouldn't have brought to retail. Maybe if they could have done it for $150 they would have had something. But at $300 with its limited capabilities and $100 games... it had no chance of success.
Do the ghouls and ghosts remaster that guy was making on Genesis, its like arcade perfect haha
I'd love to but he's only about halfway done. If he finishes it I'll do a full comparison.
For me, it's like comparing the game on the Genesis and the Master system. I'm sorry but... I found the Genesis ugly af, everything is align in a weird way, like stacked... Some enemies are smaller for no reason and less detailed, there are animations missing and the music is weird on Genesis and the sound effects omg... I guess all is about the rom size but that doesn't excuse the music quality.
I completely disagree, but if that's you're opinion, that's fine. Have you seen the work in progress rom hack for the Genesis version that dramatically updates the backgrounds yet? They only have the first level and about half of the second done so far but it's looking great so far.
Also disagree about the music, I think the Genesis version has the best music of all of them. Some of the instruments in the arcade game are a little weird and the ones in the SuperGrafx version are mostly just bad, IMO.
Your gaming experience on a Sega Genesis will vary with the version and revision of the system as well as if you are actually using stereo cables and not RF.
Keep in mind that as a Japanese Sega MegaDrive conversion, Ghosts n Ghouls was a first year game, noting that MD was launched in 1988 and the Genesis a year later. Essentially it is first year software plus the fact cost of ROM was a big factor in 1988 and 89 and it took until 1990 for the first 8 Megabit ROM Cartridge to appear. Thus even if the Japanese wanted to launch in 1988 or even 89 with 8 Megabit ROM Cartridges, it was just physicially and financially impossible.
NEC's version showed up much later as a game targeting the Sega MegaDrive version, at least in Japan because of unfortunate planning where they could have maybe launched the NEC Super GraFX here in North America 1989 even if $400 USD instead of the Turbo GraFX 16.
Also note that arcade boards inside the arcade cabinets, like the Capcom System 1 or CPS1 board would have cost in excess of over at least $1,000 USD if Capcom had somehow planned to launch a home consumer version of the CPS1. I say this because technically the Sega MegaDrive 1988 hardware is low cost, mass production hardware while the 1990 S.N.K. NeoGeo AES was a Japanese rental only affair and that system retailed around $700 USD by 1991.
Therefore just dismissing the Genesis (unless you own one of the couple of bad hardware versions made after Tom Kalinske got hired) or even the Super Nintendo games of the time is a bad idea.
I have a multicade, and the only game my wife ever plays on her own is Bubble Bobble. Maybe 2x in 5 years.
I might get around to looking at it here for real some day!
What a feckin imposible game
I never knew exactly what upgrades the Super-Grafx had over the TG-16 until you told us. Thank you! You have a great eye for detail and I appreciate your comparison methods. I found myself pausing your video quite a lot to deeply compare the small detail differences. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, glad you liked it! If you're new here, I have lots of similar comparisons!
@@InglebardGaming Oh I am now well aware. I'm currently viewing your Strider Arcade vs Genesis video. I've been looking at it for the past hour and I'm only halfway through because I keep pausing it every couple of seconds to look at the little detail differences. I had to take a break because my eyes are now bugging out on me 😮😄
You should see the Sega Genesis hack game and make a comparison and you will see the graphical power that the Sega Genesis hid at that time. Sega did not have good game programmers.
I have seen and shown the Genesis hack in progress. Sega's programmers were fine at the time, exemplary even. They had a tiny little 5 megabit cartridge (that's 640 kilobytes) to work with in 1988 and this was one of the first games developed for the system. I'm sure if the game had come out a year later on a larger cartridge, it would have been more accurate, like Strider.
The size of the cart is the limitation otherwise they would have to increase the price like Strider. you can see tons of bitmaps tiles being reused and frames missing mostly from enemies, the colors is also another limit but its not that noticable if done well
Thanks for the great review. I was surprised when I firs saw the how little details the Genesis version has compared to the Supergrafx version. Surely the best home port, but nothing like the arcade version.
Yeah, the SG version is very good, but not quite as good as its reputation suggests.
The Japanese version was rushed to market for the release of the console hence why it was not polished it was basically thrown together just to get it on the market sadly they did no justice to the MegaDrives true ability there is a lad on youtube single handedly recreating the MegaDrive Genesis game to be as near as he can get it with the limited V Ram of the MegaDrive console yet he is doing an awesome job just it is taking him a few years so far look for a channel on youtube called aMaru and you will see the true ability of the MegaDrive / Genesis console
@@malcolmogilvy4885 That sounds truely amazing, what ist the guy's channel name?
Imagine an 8-bit system not being able to emulate a Capcom System 1 game. The nerve of these people for trying!
...what a takeaway. Yes, I can see the dripping sarcasm, but the point here is that while the port is really good it has a reputation for being "perfect" that isn't warranted.
@@InglebardGaming My dude. Literally no one called it perfect. They called it "good." If you can cite a review where it's called perfect, I'll gladly concede.
Here you go, took about 10 seconds. Hardcore Gamer magazine said it was pixel perfect and the only thing not perfect was the sound: archive.org/stream/hardcore-gamer-magazine-v1i9/0109_March_06_Grandia_III_djvu.txt
That's one review. And I think you're taking this person's use of "perfect" a little too literally, since he then goes on to describe all of the flaws. And again, it's one review.
@@InglebardGaming I see some Megadrive bias in your stuff. I do watch it though. I always though the colour palette on P.C Engine made it better suited for arcade conversions than Megadrive. Also maybe you could show some actually good Amiga stuff eh? On a legit PAL display at 50hz, not just badly made arcade conversions. that don't run at 50 fps.
Wtf is super grafx
He told you what it is in the intro.
Most of the issues raised have little to with the system's capabilities and more to do with the size of the HuCard used. For having less than half of the storage of the arcade and the fact that you'd likely be playing this on a 1980s consumer-grade CRT through composite, it's pretty easy to see why people were so impressed with it.
Have to disagree there. The slowdown and mediocre sound have nothing to do with the storage capacity. The stiff control and slower gameplay have nothing to do with storage capacity. Those are the biggest issues. The missing tiles ARE most likely related to the capacity, but that's about it.
@@InglebardGaming cpu mainly
snes wins again.
@@michaelnugent8181 That'd be a neat trick since this game isn't on SNES. It got the sequel.
@@InglebardGaming Red Meat.
I repeat my previous comment.
Fun fact: Barb wire was first invented in 1868, so Sega and NEC actually got that right. 😀
Now it all makes sense, lol!
I really hate the color in the Supergrafx version. If the MD version used an 8mbit cart it would have destroyed that version, because they took out a lot of the graphics to fit it on 5mbit
The upcoming arcade hack for the Genesis version looks great so far... it's just a little too limited by the Genesis' color palette, but otherwise it looks really close to the arcade version.
You can play that "what if" game and go in circles. If NEC decided to go for a 20 mbit cart, like SFII CE on the PC Engine, it would have blown the hypothetical 8 mbit Genny cart out of the water.
EDIT/Note: I removed a comment from someone that was either incredibly wrong or a troll from here. They tried to say that the Genesis only had cart sizes in the early days of 4 and 8 megabits with nothing in-between. They also said it while being very confidently wrong and a total jerk.
They were, of course, factually wrong (Ghouls'n Ghosts is indeed 5 megabit on Genesis, the game is 640 kb and Phantasy Star II is 6 megabit or 768kb) and this is easily provable by either looking at the rom sizes in your operating system of choice or by doing a quick Google search.
yup, but the SGX could have done do that too, if the developers had a bigger Hu-Card, the SGX is a more powerful system than the Megadrive/Genesis and even the super Famicom.
@@InglebardGamingsupergrafx and genesis have the same color palette. The supergrafx pulls more colors than the limited genesis.
The Supergrafx is a cool system, but it absolutely wasn't worth the 300 dollars they asked for. Had it come out in 1990 with a faster CPU and enhanced audio it would've stood a chance against its 16-bit rivals
It was way too expensive for what you got. Likewise for the games. The power just wasn't there, which led to the games not being there, which led to, well, the AUDIENCE not being there.
@@InglebardGaming The SGX "power" didn't really have much to do with its lack of success. The PCE was less "powerful", but was hugely successful. And that's why the SGX didn't catch on. The PCE was plenty powerful to compete with the Genesis/Mega Drive and the Super Famicon/SNES, so why would people want to bother upgrading? And what does it's lack of "power" have to do with game support? Again, the PCE was less "powerful", but had a massive library. Honestly, the PCE could have pulled GnG off with a 20mbit HuCard. Capcom did it with SFII CE, and it's arguably the best port between the SNES and Genesis. At the very least it's comparable. I'd say it's better than the Genesis port, but you'd have to start splitting hairs with the SNES port.
The PC engine doesn't really need a faster CPU. Perhaps being 16-bit could help but then the only option at the time would have been the 65816, which has other problems. It's already competitive and arguably faster than the snes overall. Harder to compare to the genesis, but slowdown is rare on it.
The supergrafx also has somewhat enhanced audio (reduced clicks for wavetable cycling, and taking full advantage of this lets you play PCM samples with much lower CPU overhead.)
It probably wasn't worth $300 though, I agree there. But the extra chips probably forced that.
@@jc_dogenit was nec own neo geo console.
i have the genesis mini and the tg16 mini and the control response and playability is far superior on the genesis version, although the tg16 looks a little better, the genesis better play control made it more fun
I agree, the control feels a lot better in the Genesis version overall.