ICs have the potential to be really fun to watch if you play aggressively, see Wobbles and Fly Amanita, unfortunately a lot of the more recent Ice Climbers players dont really do this stuff I remember we were all getting crazy hyped over Wobbles's run at Battle of the 5 Gods
10:52 Ice Climbers could have been the darlings of melee, but instead they were hated for like a decade and a half of competitive play because of wobbling. It is so refreshing and wonderful to hear the crowd cheer for a really technical handoff combo to death instead of boo at wobbling.
Watched this thinking it was gonna be a quick 3-0 or 3-1 but holy moly I did not expect this outcome. Good shit to Slug. What a crazy good player he is.
I'm so glad this set got to happen; SluG is amazing vs Marth and these two have never played on LAN before. Crazy to have only 2 non-Sheiks beat Zain in this ranking period and for 1 of them to be an ICs!
@@thebenis3157 Yoshi has a surprisingly good matchup vs. Marth. It's probably his best MU when he faces any of the Top 7 Melee characters (Fox, Marth, Puff, Falco, Sheik, Falcon, and Peach).
Lets go SLUG. I love seeing an IC's win without wobbling and just using raw skill. These commentators are hilarious. Not sure I want them on every top 8 but for a tournament as goofy as this.... They were perfect. IMO these guys are the guys you have on in top 24 before top 8.
@@baelorbreakspeartargaryen993 lol I could see that. I know junebug was one of them and I know he was very good at PM back in the day but I have no clue who Jorge is but I hope they keep commentating
@@x9x9x9x9x9 They can be so analytical sometimes, too. My favorite top 32/16 commentators, but tbh I don’t think melee has many awesome top 8 commentators besides Phil and HMW. Miss the old Toph and Scar, but Toph + Vish is a decent combo too.
10:55 Slug uses a Shield Stun Desync to have Nana input back air out of shield and Popo roll right to corner Marth. From there he converts it into a stock. One of the best Ice Climbers plays I've ever seen.
I think it's much more the player than the character but they do have potential. In retrospect they're not meta relevant imo where it's really only 1 player performing well to thousands similar to Pika and Yoshi where before people were actually scared of icies with wobbling The character gets gatekept pretty hard by some MUs and their polarization, and even without wobbling still get camped still but does also have relevant MUs as well and explosive potential and setups
From a spectator and the opponent's standpoint it's healthy for the game, but I also feel like it limits the diversity of the game and is in a gray area of how it's being handled where Brawl, Sm4sh, and Ultimate also don't have bans on ZtD characters or things that are argued unhealthy for the game which I feel a bit mixed about. I like current Icies much more but also don't know if it's handled properly/fairly from a meta standpoint
tbh, they still aren't exactly the biggest threats at top tier. ICs kinda get smashed by every top tier match up including Peach, the spacies, Puff, Falcon, and even lower tiered characters like Samus and Yoshi do very well against them. Marth is also considered a major counter but Zain wasn't ready to fight them it seems.
@@BlackDeathBlade according to slug, ics do ok against marth and falco (put them both as ‘evenish’ in a matchup chart). In fact, in that matchup chart he said that marth was only ics 10th worst matchup, and is personally famously good against marth.
the CERN accelerated particle collider relaunched on july 5th 2022 and double down 2022 took place july 8th-10th. i refuse to believe that melee's current history is not being influenced by the rebooting of the world's largest particle collider lying underneath switzerland.
Nana (for this color) keeps fighting when disconnected from Popo, she just usually is useless but because Popo was at high% (dying off the top) her CPU level was much higher than normal. She despawns when the main climber respawns.
So i cant speak on behalf of the setups at double dash, but at my tournament on the hacked wiis with running slippi nintendont, you can make it so wobbling is impossible to perform
"These people ain't loyal" that kills me 😂 On thing about Melee is people don't give a F who you are, if you are monopolizing the scene they eventually will turn on you and cheer for the underdogs. Love it.
These commentators rock - charismatic, genuinely funny, and great chemistry. I’ve loved June for ages and now Jorge is growing on me too. Keep up the great work guys!
Dude got memed. Slug was camping plats and using that ice mist really well. And zain could only approach by air, which got predictable last game. Solid though.
This was a great set. Imagine if wobbling was allowed. It would have been over. I don't agree that it was banned but it's okay, it only makes IC mains train harder.
Zain has been playing so sloppy these past 4-5 tournaments and its costing him. The fair spam and doing the fair spam off stage is getting him beat to the ledge. Even fucking Nana ledge grabbed before him cause Zain gets greedy with the fairs. He needs to relax and focus more on netural with less fair spam.
He’s also been just downright outplayed in the past two tournaments. He isn’t bringing any counter play to these problem matchups that Marth is KNOWN to have.
@@HispanicatthediscoMTG it’s probably since all these tournaments have been back to back. Zain’s the type of player who needs time to lab out a matchup before he becomes unstoppable
@@juddis956 then he’s not unstoppable. Other top players can overcome that and often do. Zain has a very weak mental game. He struggles with adaptation. Once an opponent changes the way they approach mid-match he struggles. He also has had lots of time to learn matchups. He’s been playing for a long time, and it’s not like characters are just popping up or are DLC.
Rule #1 against ICs. Separate the climbers. Rule #2: Target switch between Popo and Nana. Rule #3: Kill Nana at any given opportunity. Rule #4: After Nana dies, bully popo with your better frame data. I think people forgot how to properly destroy ice climbers. Even without wobbling, you still have to do this.
There are always people talking about how simple it is to beat ICs. I like your rules, but just add “It’s hard when they’re really good.” and I’ll cosign.
@@Lumpycpu It's pretty obvious that the opponent isn't going to make it easy for you too, and that's on the player to adapt to the opponent, but when the footage clearly shows the player not respecting ICs, then it kinda shows.
Double Down is still live! Go to "www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp"
no it's not
is it still live?
12:12 Nana's deathgrip at the end kills me, like she's saying "If I'm fading into the aether you're coming with me" lmfao
I've never seen the crowd cheer so hard for an ICs player.
he didn't depend on wobbling every stock, probably cus of that
Cause he actually had a developed neutral and punish haha he worked for it and went last stock with the best player at the moment shit was sick
We havent seen it since fly amanita from eons ago it feels like
Y’all never seen chu dat vs hugs at evo
ICs have the potential to be really fun to watch if you play aggressively, see Wobbles and Fly Amanita, unfortunately a lot of the more recent Ice Climbers players dont really do this stuff
I remember we were all getting crazy hyped over Wobbles's run at Battle of the 5 Gods
12:14 oof the panic and fear in their voices was so funny. Nana is so scary when she no longer has Popo to keep her in check
10:52 Ice Climbers could have been the darlings of melee, but instead they were hated for like a decade and a half of competitive play because of wobbling. It is so refreshing and wonderful to hear the crowd cheer for a really technical handoff combo to death instead of boo at wobbling.
Agreed
Ice climbers ss+++ teir
thank godness
If you make this argument it proves how little you know about the game.
ICs need wobbling for Peach and Puff specifically
@@Mannydude96 melee is a spectator esport and wobbling is horrible for spectators. Banning it was easily the right call
RIP the Zain and Mang0 tier: 2021-2021
That's why I never followed that narrative to begin with.
Their tier was actually 2 years, 2020-2021. That’s when only they won tournaments during the online era of melee
the zain mamg0 tier is still alive. its just a 5th place tier
@@sway3365 lmaooooo
It was a good time, but it's crazy how so many people have caught up
Watched this thinking it was gonna be a quick 3-0 or 3-1 but holy moly I did not expect this outcome. Good shit to Slug. What a crazy good player he is.
This is the greatest achievement from ICs since the banned wobble? Melee is alive and well!
I'm so glad this set got to happen; SluG is amazing vs Marth and these two have never played on LAN before. Crazy to have only 2 non-Sheiks beat Zain in this ranking period and for 1 of them to be an ICs!
And the other one is a Yoshi, we live in a very mysterious universe
Actually I forgot lloD, make that 3 non-Sheiks
@@thebenis3157 Yoshi has a surprisingly good matchup vs. Marth. It's probably his best MU when he faces any of the Top 7 Melee characters (Fox, Marth, Puff, Falco, Sheik, Falcon, and Peach).
I miss seeing Fly Amanita's Ice Climbers, but I gotta appreciate Slug breathing life into the character.
SluG played so sick
Crazy how cool ICs are without wobbling
Lets go SLUG. I love seeing an IC's win without wobbling and just using raw skill.
These commentators are hilarious. Not sure I want them on every top 8 but for a tournament as goofy as this.... They were perfect. IMO these guys are the guys you have on in top 24 before top 8.
I kept thinking of Beavis and Butt-Head while listening to them.
@@baelorbreakspeartargaryen993 lol I could see that. I know junebug was one of them and I know he was very good at PM back in the day but I have no clue who Jorge is but I hope they keep commentating
June bug got top sixteen at this tourney I think with doc
@@x9x9x9x9x9 They can be so analytical sometimes, too. My favorite top 32/16 commentators, but tbh I don’t think melee has many awesome top 8 commentators besides Phil and HMW. Miss the old Toph and Scar, but Toph + Vish is a decent combo too.
@@bobskinny361 he’s still top 100 huh? What an icon
Just beat top 2 in the world and he didn't even popoff. What a chad.
Did u not see the fist??
Love how he just holds his fist up...not even a fist pump lol
20:56 I came here just to see Slug win but look at this handshake. Seems like Zain took it really well, good competitor!
This may be set of the year. My heart was racing that last stock.
Non-wobbling ICs are cool and fun, and I hope we see more of them. GGs Slug.
so glad wobbling is banned, that makes ice climbers so much fun to watch
Lots of top players have said it but slug is the best ice climbers player of all time at this point
This was the craziest set of 2022
10:55 Slug uses a Shield Stun Desync to have Nana input back air out of shield and Popo roll right to corner Marth. From there he converts it into a stock. One of the best Ice Climbers plays I've ever seen.
thats insane wtf
"Icies are not meta relevant without wobbling"
I think it's much more the player than the character but they do have potential. In retrospect they're not meta relevant imo where it's really only 1 player performing well to thousands similar to Pika and Yoshi where before people were actually scared of icies with wobbling
The character gets gatekept pretty hard by some MUs and their polarization, and even without wobbling still get camped still but does also have relevant MUs as well and explosive potential and setups
From a spectator and the opponent's standpoint it's healthy for the game, but I also feel like it limits the diversity of the game and is in a gray area of how it's being handled where Brawl, Sm4sh, and Ultimate also don't have bans on ZtD characters or things that are argued unhealthy for the game which I feel a bit mixed about. I like current Icies much more but also don't know if it's handled properly/fairly from a meta standpoint
I think wobbling held them back. Why learn new tech and setups when you can just fish for grabs and auto win?
tbh, they still aren't exactly the biggest threats at top tier. ICs kinda get smashed by every top tier match up including Peach, the spacies, Puff, Falcon, and even lower tiered characters like Samus and Yoshi do very well against them. Marth is also considered a major counter but Zain wasn't ready to fight them it seems.
@@BlackDeathBlade according to slug, ics do ok against marth and falco (put them both as ‘evenish’ in a matchup chart). In fact, in that matchup chart he said that marth was only ics 10th worst matchup, and is personally famously good against marth.
Melee Community: ICs are garbage without wobbling.
Slug: Hold ma beer.
Sad to see my goat lose but slug is insane, really proving how wrong all of the people that said icies were dead without wobbling gone
Congrats SluG. Crazy how good you've gotten - keep it up!
hell yeah that's some sick ic's play, also love how zain's such a good sport, insisting on the shake and the good game, champs both of them
How is slug desynching into blizzard without rolling/spotdodge? He is just dash dancing or wavedashing and he is getting a desynch?
Dash Dance Desyncs, there are at least a few ways to reliably use them
So when we gonna see a SluG vs Mang0?
the CERN accelerated particle collider relaunched on july 5th 2022 and double down 2022 took place july 8th-10th. i refuse to believe that melee's current history is not being influenced by the rebooting of the world's largest particle collider lying underneath switzerland.
Wobbling never should have been banned. Unban freeze glitch too
7:48 HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT.
Sam "Popo" Hyde
Lmaoooo
I think the craziest thing about this set is the pop off at the end
12:15 what happened here?
Nana (for this color) keeps fighting when disconnected from Popo, she just usually is useless but because Popo was at high% (dying off the top) her CPU level was much higher than normal. She despawns when the main climber respawns.
Glad to have SluG represent PA!
717 in the house
215 gang
Slug somehow makes this mu look even
Finaly we can see what ics can be
Melee is crazy right now. Anyone can beat anyone all the sudden
12:15
I know wobbling is not allowed anymore but what is the rule when it is considered as wobbling?
So i cant speak on behalf of the setups at double dash, but at my tournament on the hacked wiis with running slippi nintendont, you can make it so wobbling is impossible to perform
If there are more than 3 pummels with the opponent locked in hitstun
slug shaking at 12:30. i couldnt imagine playing at this high of level
The end mmbn music ♥ unbelievably good taste. And what a set
10:48 is fucking funny. They sound like cartoon characters lol
15:40 WTF
so did wobbling get banned/patched out in slippi? Or is Slug just a fucking chad?
It's been banned since 2019-ish. Pretty much why IC disappeared from competitive Melee for a long time.
"These people ain't loyal" that kills me 😂
On thing about Melee is people don't give a F who you are, if you are monopolizing the scene they eventually will turn on you and cheer for the underdogs. Love it.
except mango on the low
Slug is an absolute madman.
Nana was out for BLOOD at the end of game 3 lmao
I love these commentators, who are they? Amazing game!!
What did the online era do
WITHOUT WOBBLING !?!?!?
This remainds me of Chu Dat beating Ken long ago
Zain looking less and less dominant as the year goes on
Hard agree
Slug was on some insane stuff these sets
GORGE IS YIIKING OUT
please stop using that nasty marth render wtf...
So unsettling
Timestamp?
@@Mannydude96 thumbnail
@@andreyutiamco9201 lol wtf are you all serious? It's literally Marth from the video game we all play I don't understand
@@Mannydude96 its just the pose from the render man... it looks gross
zain down bad. awesome gameplay.
Zain was getting choked in the corner ever game Jesus slug
I’ve always hated watching ICs due to people like Nintendude and Chu, but SluG actually plays so sick. 💯
Put some respect on 2 legends of the game
Chu is sick
Don’t disrespect Chu the GOAT IC like that
Can’t believe a ic main beat zain
Ice Climbers looking kinda hot in 2022
It's not L Canceling,
It's not Z Canceling,
It's Zain Canceling !
Nice vid mates
Mute the commentary
These commentators rock - charismatic, genuinely funny, and great chemistry. I’ve loved June for ages and now Jorge is growing on me too. Keep up the great work guys!
That Nana is top tier
LMAO trying to separate nana and shes above 150 is annoying. She be really trying to box with ya
Seems like Zain's weakness is mid tiers.
The Zain anime arc begins
This feels right
how the fuck did hbox get knocked out so early lmao
Dq
Wobbling should’ve been banned sooner. This is amazing
Is slug sponsored by faze or is he just wearing that?
With legal wobbling p sure slug like 3 or 4 stocks every game he wins
Slug is crazy!
Its hard to play against the crowd. Probs to zain. But also great Support for slug
Go Slug!
Dude got memed. Slug was camping plats and using that ice mist really well. And zain could only approach by air, which got predictable last game. Solid though.
10:48 these commentators... ROFL
Great commentating!
LETS GO PHILADELPHIA
No wobble icies is hype
LFG Slug
Slug is sick
Dope commentary
i like the two people who commentated, but dont like their style. a bit too over the top.
holy moly
This was a great set. Imagine if wobbling was allowed. It would have been over. I don't agree that it was banned but it's okay, it only makes IC mains train harder.
I miss slug ;(
slug is so sick lol
Zain has been playing so sloppy these past 4-5 tournaments and its costing him. The fair spam and doing the fair spam off stage is getting him beat to the ledge. Even fucking Nana ledge grabbed before him cause Zain gets greedy with the fairs. He needs to relax and focus more on netural with less fair spam.
He’s also been just downright outplayed in the past two tournaments. He isn’t bringing any counter play to these problem matchups that Marth is KNOWN to have.
@@HispanicatthediscoMTG it’s probably since all these tournaments have been back to back. Zain’s the type of player who needs time to lab out a matchup before he becomes unstoppable
@@juddis956 then he’s not unstoppable. Other top players can overcome that and often do. Zain has a very weak mental game. He struggles with adaptation. Once an opponent changes the way they approach mid-match he struggles. He also has had lots of time to learn matchups. He’s been playing for a long time, and it’s not like characters are just popping up or are DLC.
Sluuuuuuuuuug!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rule #1 against ICs. Separate the climbers.
Rule #2: Target switch between Popo and Nana.
Rule #3: Kill Nana at any given opportunity.
Rule #4: After Nana dies, bully popo with your better frame data.
I think people forgot how to properly destroy ice climbers. Even without wobbling, you still have to do this.
Everyone and their grandmother knows this
@@Kitth3n I think in this set alone, Zain broke rule #2 so many times. And his spacing was pretty trash.
There are always people talking about how simple it is to beat ICs. I like your rules, but just add “It’s hard when they’re really good.” and I’ll cosign.
@@Lumpycpu It's pretty obvious that the opponent isn't going to make it easy for you too, and that's on the player to adapt to the opponent, but when the footage clearly shows the player not respecting ICs, then it kinda shows.
Rule #5 Stop with all the fairs
Please stop screaming into the mic.
アイクラはいつも罪深い
goat
Sheeesh
past his prime
360p 🤢
God these commentators are annoying.
These commentators are rough to listen to. It comes off as two 12 year old boys giggling and telling inside jokes
Slug’s just a good sopo player lol, I don’t even know if he can play normal icies, he has too much practice as sopo
Bruh what 💀, did you see those handoffs?