This new hero is super interesting. A long-awaited new carry hero with a skill set that looks broken on paper, but in practice is quite difficult to pull off. He looks like the invoker of melee carries, I just hope he doesn’t turn out to be super cheesy and one-dimensional.
It would be cool if having the debuff from one stance benefits the other. What's great about dota compared to other games similar to it is the heroes are becoming more and more self-synergistic. Kez's skillsets are synergistic, but only with those of the same stance.
That's not true at all. One of the biggest factors to Kez's damage output is balancing between Katana and Sai stance. If you read the Switch Discipline description: in Katana you gain an additional 75 attack range and deal 20% more damage than Sai, but your base attack time is 0.5s slower by default. When activating Falcon Rush and then swapping to Katana, your attack rate is halved to 1s at max level whereas Sai is reduced to 0.9s. That makes your damage output with Katana significantly higher than with Sai - by design. At level 1 alone, Falcon Rush with Katana vs. with Sai is a total damage difference of 160 odd damage with no items. That scales up to a difference of about 300 damage at level 7 with no items and a 4-1-1-1 build due to the additional damage procs of a single point in the Kazurai Katana passive. Sai plays like a roaming setup stance, whereas Katana is the brawling stance. Kez can use Talon Toss to poke with some CC silence to set up his team as they go in first, defend himself with Shodo Sai when needed and then pick his moment to infiltrate with both Raven's Veil or Falcon Rush at which point he switches to Katana to take advantage of the extra damage and lifesteal that the Katana stance offers. Katana Stance then offers Kez the choice to double down on damage with the lifesteal or bail back out again. Marking a target with Sai and then swapping to Katana for even more damage before disengaging gives him crazy burst potential. The biggest mistake is trying to play him like a 1v5 hero like late game Medusa instead of a backline assassinator like Clinkz. By one shotting one of the supports and then picking off the other with the remaining duration of your buffs from Sai while in Katana stance: Kez pumps damage in an instant and then with the man advantage overpowers the remaining cores using his sustain.
@@beneaththeveil my bad I worded that very vaguely. I don't disagree with everything you've said, what I was trying to say was I am in the same boat as Sunsfan and Synd of wanting the hero's core gameplay to be switching between stances. You could argue that it already is, in order to optimize damage output and utility. My counterpoint to that, I could see "Katana Kez" and "Shodo Sai Kez" as two separate heroes. The point is not that you could play and not switch stance entirely (although you technically could), but I wished that if you see only one of the stances there should be an impression of "this can't be the whole thing, there's a missing piece on this puzzle"
@@jamesaditya5254 while I can see the point: the same can be said about Invoker when playing Quas-Wex or Quas-Exort. Or Tusk when playing Eul's/Force/Solar Crest instead of Blink and Aghs. Same with Earth Spirit playing Spirit Vessel/Shiva's and Blademail compared to Blink, Aghs and Shard. Just because players are choosing to potentially not use all of a heroes kit in order to play a certain style, doesn't mean that the hero isn't synergistic with itself. It's just in certain games there is some utility that isn't as strong so you lean away from that and play into your utility that is the strongest in that situation.
kez seems good idk why so low wr, you use both stances but i think its good to use all the dagger skills then swap to katana while u use the dive attack plus ult if needed
Can you guys try doing an episode where you just commentate a game, like TI13 grand finals? Doesn't even have to be "cast", just enjoy you guys chatting, then get a win win of hearing you cast TI13 grand finals
There's just too much in Kez his toolkit. His abilities read like shopping lists "..and does this, and this" with no discernible cast point and generic animations it just makes it difficult to read as an opponent. He needs more opportunity costs.
I think Kez is a pretty great concept and quite fun. But I just don't like his look and overall aesthetic. It is a thing that I feel has been going on in Dota for quite a few heroes now, they just look like something you would expect from League and other less serious/youngster friendly games. There is nothing wrong with something a bit silly, but I feel like there is a trend for a while now of heroes not feeling like the older ones and as if they are trying to appeal to a certain audience. Like give us something more serious and badass again and not just a blue bird or comical puppet etc
Sunsfan would you rather live in a world where Valve put up a statue at KeyArena honoring you, but they've made it quite unflattering adding an extra 50lbs mainly in the ass area
@omidwm6876 it will be in sunsfan recommend if he watch it when they are out, synd don't care because he does't watch anything. If it is bad he won't even talk about it
I haven't played the hero yet, but I would bet the main reasons for the low winrate are that the hero is complex, and needs time to figure out, and that melee agi carries are pretty dog shit right now, and have been for many patches. Almost every melee agi carry is dogshit and Kez, despite the complexity, still falls into that archetype.
Sunsfan I'm 13 minutes in and I haven't heard your take on Kez's voice yet but my immediate reaction was "why does it sound like a teenage cartoon MC is voicing my hero?". I'm not a fan of the voice too much and I think it lacks the grit and emphasis of the other heroes. Feels a bit corny/childish. Let's see if our takes end up being similar.
You forgetting something which is, Carry heroes SHOULD be easy to learn hard to master. How am i as a pos 4-5, can adapt to everything he can do or can't. These types of heroes doesn't suits DOTA imo.
Yeah, I play position 5 and looking through his abilities gets me wondering how I counter them, and even know what is about to happen. I guess I'm getting older, but I htink the last thing Dota needs is more complexity. The bar to entry is almost impossible for new players now.
btw, Kez is a type 3 hero in Complexity - the Last type 3 hero release is Arcwarden (2015)
Is es considered 2?
Synderen never fails to remind us that he absolutely loathes the kid Invoker voice lines
This new hero is super interesting. A long-awaited new carry hero with a skill set that looks broken on paper, but in practice is quite difficult to pull off. He looks like the invoker of melee carries, I just hope he doesn’t turn out to be super cheesy and one-dimensional.
36:52 Synderen.Exe has stopped working.
GIVE ME SUNSFAN AND SYNDEREN CASTING THIS YEAR
I was playing and Ke dropped the line "When you get to hell, tell them a bird sent you" made me laugh out loud.
This is my favorite NBA podcast.
Miami Heat did D Wade dirty with that statue 😂
Sunraku is the only correct voice for bird samurai
I mean, it makes sense for Kez to sound like DK's persona, they're both basically anime protagonists
43:47 I really hated marci when it came out. I was playing offlane sandking at the time it was SO frustrating to play against in lane.
Back after ages. ❤
It would be cool if having the debuff from one stance benefits the other. What's great about dota compared to other games similar to it is the heroes are becoming more and more self-synergistic. Kez's skillsets are synergistic, but only with those of the same stance.
That's not true at all. One of the biggest factors to Kez's damage output is balancing between Katana and Sai stance. If you read the Switch Discipline description: in Katana you gain an additional 75 attack range and deal 20% more damage than Sai, but your base attack time is 0.5s slower by default. When activating Falcon Rush and then swapping to Katana, your attack rate is halved to 1s at max level whereas Sai is reduced to 0.9s. That makes your damage output with Katana significantly higher than with Sai - by design. At level 1 alone, Falcon Rush with Katana vs. with Sai is a total damage difference of 160 odd damage with no items. That scales up to a difference of about 300 damage at level 7 with no items and a 4-1-1-1 build due to the additional damage procs of a single point in the Kazurai Katana passive.
Sai plays like a roaming setup stance, whereas Katana is the brawling stance. Kez can use Talon Toss to poke with some CC silence to set up his team as they go in first, defend himself with Shodo Sai when needed and then pick his moment to infiltrate with both Raven's Veil or Falcon Rush at which point he switches to Katana to take advantage of the extra damage and lifesteal that the Katana stance offers. Katana Stance then offers Kez the choice to double down on damage with the lifesteal or bail back out again. Marking a target with Sai and then swapping to Katana for even more damage before disengaging gives him crazy burst potential. The biggest mistake is trying to play him like a 1v5 hero like late game Medusa instead of a backline assassinator like Clinkz. By one shotting one of the supports and then picking off the other with the remaining duration of your buffs from Sai while in Katana stance: Kez pumps damage in an instant and then with the man advantage overpowers the remaining cores using his sustain.
@@beneaththeveil my bad I worded that very vaguely. I don't disagree with everything you've said, what I was trying to say was I am in the same boat as Sunsfan and Synd of wanting the hero's core gameplay to be switching between stances. You could argue that it already is, in order to optimize damage output and utility. My counterpoint to that, I could see "Katana Kez" and "Shodo Sai Kez" as two separate heroes. The point is not that you could play and not switch stance entirely (although you technically could), but I wished that if you see only one of the stances there should be an impression of "this can't be the whole thing, there's a missing piece on this puzzle"
@@jamesaditya5254 while I can see the point: the same can be said about Invoker when playing Quas-Wex or Quas-Exort. Or Tusk when playing Eul's/Force/Solar Crest instead of Blink and Aghs. Same with Earth Spirit playing Spirit Vessel/Shiva's and Blademail compared to Blink, Aghs and Shard. Just because players are choosing to potentially not use all of a heroes kit in order to play a certain style, doesn't mean that the hero isn't synergistic with itself. It's just in certain games there is some utility that isn't as strong so you lean away from that and play into your utility that is the strongest in that situation.
I thought there was some noise outside. But turns out its from Synderen's mic sounding like a hum
kez seems good idk why so low wr, you use both stances but i think its good to use all the dagger skills then swap to katana while u use the dive attack plus ult if needed
kek is my new favorite hero
Thank you for the NBA segment! Russell Westbrook da goat
Finally podcast going back to its roots and giving the audience what they want
Lemme get that kick from the NBA segment SunsFan
Can you guys try doing an episode where you just commentate a game, like TI13 grand finals? Doesn't even have to be "cast", just enjoy you guys chatting, then get a win win of hearing you cast TI13 grand finals
The Last Ronin made Michelangelo even cooler though it was a sad story overall.
There's just too much in Kez his toolkit. His abilities read like shopping lists "..and does this, and this" with no discernible cast point and generic animations it just makes it difficult to read as an opponent. He needs more opportunity costs.
I think Kez is a pretty great concept and quite fun. But I just don't like his look and overall aesthetic.
It is a thing that I feel has been going on in Dota for quite a few heroes now, they just look like something you would expect from League and other less serious/youngster friendly games. There is nothing wrong with something a bit silly, but I feel like there is a trend for a while now of heroes not feeling like the older ones and as if they are trying to appeal to a certain audience.
Like give us something more serious and badass again and not just a blue bird or comical puppet etc
Sunsfan would you rather live in a world where Valve put up a statue at KeyArena honoring you, but they've made it quite unflattering adding an extra 50lbs mainly in the ass area
No mention of Arcane coming out on Netflix. Best thing to come from league
Good
We dont talk about that and honestly even though it is good, its a fucking overrated series story wise.
@omidwm6876 it will be in sunsfan recommend if he watch it when they are out, synd don't care because he does't watch anything. If it is bad he won't even talk about it
why should we talk about a garbage?
@@Gdg195 I'm waiting for you to complete your sentence fragment.
I haven't played the hero yet, but I would bet the main reasons for the low winrate are that the hero is complex, and needs time to figure out, and that melee agi carries are pretty dog shit right now, and have been for many patches. Almost every melee agi carry is dogshit and Kez, despite the complexity, still falls into that archetype.
Ayooo
Sunsfan I'm 13 minutes in and I haven't heard your take on Kez's voice yet but my immediate reaction was "why does it sound like a teenage cartoon MC is voicing my hero?".
I'm not a fan of the voice too much and I think it lacks the grit and emphasis of the other heroes. Feels a bit corny/childish. Let's see if our takes end up being similar.
You forgetting something which is, Carry heroes SHOULD be easy to learn hard to master. How am i as a pos 4-5, can adapt to everything he can do or can't. These types of heroes doesn't suits DOTA imo.
Yeah, I play position 5 and looking through his abilities gets me wondering how I counter them, and even know what is about to happen. I guess I'm getting older, but I htink the last thing Dota needs is more complexity. The bar to entry is almost impossible for new players now.
I played 1 game with Kez and won said game. I'm better than 70% of people who have played the character, won't change my mind
Holy lazy shit towers no animation
who cares
SunsFan trying to be a sunsfan again