Why REL Acoustics doesn't recommend using subwoofer isolation platforms
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2021
- Hey there. It's John Hunter with REL back again. We get questions all the time for you folks. And one of the ones we got recently was why does REL, not recommend isolation platforms. Pretty simple. They, they do some things that are really questionable. We work very, very hard as a design team to get the height exactly right.
0:30
We, we work with different heights of feet. We experiment, we put them on elevators, we drop them down. We get it exactly right. So that the notes release perfectly. When you put it up, call it two inches on an isolation platform. You're decoupling the sub from the floor and in many instances, it's exactly the wrong thing to do.
I understand that there are times if you live in a for example, a small apartment, and you're trying to prevent bleed through from down below, you may need to do something extreme.
1:00
You may need to put down a foam pad or something, but as a general rule, isolating, putting it up on a platform will actually reduce the amount of deep bass increase the amount of upper bass.
And you'll wind up with a sound that's very light. People will write us and say well, it, it, it sounded, it sounded crisper and faster and that would be because it's no longer making bass. So just be very, very careful about these things. There are technical reasons that I have a hard time with isolation platforms as well.
1:30
When you isolate you're trapping the energy from getting out of the sub and into the floor and mechanically having it couple out into the room. Um, a lot of folks I think, are just used to tweaking. So when people buy a sub, they get playing with it. They love it. Now. Now they want to know what's the next step.
And, and, and the next step is almost never going to be an isolation platform. Probably the last place I would go would be looking to decouple this huge energy engine, right?
2:00
These things are massive amounts of movement, massive amounts of power required to produce these huge long wave fronts and putting it up on what amounts to a wobbly platform is exactly the opposite of where your thinking should be going.
So that's a little bit more in depth explanation. I'm sure most people want to know, but it gives you some background to it. As engineers. Our job is to get as much clean, deep bass into the room, physically propagating into the room as possible. And that's just not possible once you start putting them up on decoupling platforms.
Thanks for the question. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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love our John
I went by his advice even though all my other sub and speakers use IsoAcoustics products. I decided to experiment and used the IsoPuck Minis and was completely blown away. The bass was significantly better and punchier!
I bought a subdude because I have a suspended floor and there was so much vibration created by the s510. I wonder if a granite platform on top of it would get the best of both worlds?
Why does every expert say to decouple the speakers….including subwoofers from the floor? Unless you have concrete floors, you will potentially turn your floor into a transducer if you don’t decouple your subwoofer
Exactly! 👍
From my point of view and experience, a good subwoofer does not need the help of surfaces such as "transducers". Its dispersion and integration to a good audio chain, well configured, is enough for a response with total coherence and realism. Low performance SWs need "extra help". ;)
Excellent
Hi John, I am running 2 HT1205's in my living room for a home theater set up. I have hardwood floors and find that the 1205's tend to shift position a little after several movies. Do you have any suggestions to prevent the subs from creeping? Thanks.
Thank you for reaching out, and for choosing REL subwoofers for your home audio system. If the HT/1205 is vibrating itself out of position on your hardwood floors, then we recommend placing a small amount of Blu-Tack under each of the subwoofer's feet to help securely couple it to the floor and prevent these vibrations. Here is a link to a video from our website which goes into detail regarding this topic: th-cam.com/video/hMkcHDeL-4A/w-d-xo.html
WHAT ABOUT a solid, heavy 2" slab of heavy concrete, w/ fits squarely under the sub. Ones I'm using weigh 35#. . . ?
Thanks
Hmmm never thought of that. Although im not using rel subs maybe ill try to remove my isolations and see what happens. Your right though, im hearing crisper bass and probably because im losing deep bass. Thanks, Something to look forward to this weekend.
Some subs are designed to be isolated from the floor. Those subs come with isolation feet pre installed from the manufacturer. Those subs are safe to decouple. REL designs theirs to turn the suspended floor and the space below your floor into a speaker. I didn't buy into it so I went with JL. Oh, and JL also have variable phase control. Something REL doesn't want include in their products and educate their customers on how to use it properly. REL also mislabels their 0-180° polarity switch as "phase". Apparently REL doesn't know the difference. If they can't get that simple little thing right, why would I believe they know how to engineer a real sub?
Decoupling works for my small room for a desktop setting. I know it's not home theater, but in a nearfield experience, decoupling works wonders. The bass is punchy and hits the center imaging quite nicely. This is with a sealed 8" sub.
I have a pair of the SVS SB3000 subs, they are roughly 6 inches off the floor on a custom stand I built out of 1.5" thick Maple butcher block. They still reach way down below 20hz, as I can feel the sound waves rolling throughout the house. not audible, but felt. I'll try putting them back on the floor and give it another go. I cannot say positively what is better, as I have been gone for quite awhile with work, and have not played with my system in well over two years.
My 15inch woofer sealed subwoofer has very small rubber already feet attached to it. I bought a solid 4 layer plywood platform (completely flat no feet) for it. Only around 2.2 inches height so isn't raising my subwoofer that high.
Your custom stand at 6 inches raises your subwoofer quite high. There is solid scientific evidence that raising a subwoofer to high reduces the low bass impact. As the bass frequencies from the woofer won't interact with the floor as much than if it was lower down.
What about basstraps?
What if you have an uneven floor?
I’ve a substantial pair of floor standers augmented by a pair of Rel T9X subs. I’ve mounted the floor standers on isolation platforms, but I have the Rels firmly coupled to my wood clad, solid concrete floor.
By decoupling the floor standers from the floor I prevent cabinet resonance adversely affecting other drivers and preventing the bass energy being transmitted from the subs through the floor, interfering with the clarity of the floor standers. Whilst actually coupling the Rels to the floor, actively assists the down firing passive drivers to utilise the large floor expanse to spread and enhance the bass.
Hi John, thanks for the explanation. I'm wondering if I should put the spikes and the benefits (thinking about Gaya's from Isoaccoustics). Wonderfull! Thanks!
Gaia's are better than spikes
We have found that the best possible performance from REL subwoofers is achieved by placing the subwoofer directly on your floor using the stock feet, without the use of isolation feet or spikes.
@@RELAcoustics thanks
So does this apply to your REL home theater subwoofers which do not have any downward firing component but only front firing. Should they also not be decoupled
Thank you for reaching out. In our experience, all REL subwoofers benefit by being placed directly on the floor in your room, rather than using isolation platforms or feet. This includes our exclusively front-firing models like the Serie HT subwoofers.
Im thinking of designing a Rack Mount DYI to mount my sub up above my computer desk and computer screen and actually closer up to the ceiling then angle down a bit into the center of the room. It will be a similar distance from my ears as my two bookshelf monitors. 12" DYI sub WinISD tuned ported enclosure and fine tuned with DSP Amp software. Opinion?
Thank you for reaching out. In our experience, subwoofers (especially RELs) perform best when placed directly on the floor and can use this surface to reinforce their output. Elevating the subwoofer, either on a shelf or up closer to the ceiling, can tighten up it's mid-range output though it will also significantly limit the low-frequency extension of the subwoofer.
I am interested in a T/zero MK3 or T/5x. Is it ok to put them directly on a wooden floor?
Thank you for reaching out, and yes both the Tzero Mk.III and the T/5x can be placed on wooden or other hard flooring materials.
So are REL subs designed for carpet use or bare wood, or concrete floors? Wouldn't carpet act somewhat as an isolation platform?
REL subwoofers can perform equally well on wood, tile, laminate, or carpeted floors. In our experience the carpet will not have any negative impact on the subwoofer's performance.
I have a pair of Rels. I live on the ground floor of an apartment block. My floor is solid concrete mounted on block and beam and topped with wood cladding. My Rels have down firing, passive drivers, designed to interact with the floor. So, I firmly couple mine to the floor and attenuate the intensity to minimise vibration. My substantial floor standers on the other hand are mounted on a pair of Townsend Isolation Podiums. They are damned expensive, but extremely effective. Decoupling my floor standers from the floor. Virtually eliminating cabinet resonance. Not allowing vibrations through the floor, for example from my subs, to colour the mids and highs. I highly recommend the concept. Least ways, it works for me.
Enjoy the music.
Hi John, I live in a 4 story townhome and my listening room is on the top floor. I have a pair of REL T/9i subs. My llstening room has hardwood floors and there were times that I felt the whole house shake from these subs. Mind you, I am playing mostly ECM jazz, not metal. I needed to reduce the house shake so I put them on hockey pucks. That decoupled them from the hardwood floor so the house doesn’t shake now. I am happy with the sound. But do you have a better suggestion or product than hockey pucks? Thanks from Chicago.
Try Townshend isolation podiums. They are damned expensive but highly effective. Your Rel subs have down firing, passive drivers. Designed to interact with the floor. I have a pair of the same subs on wood clad concrete flooring in a ground floor apartment. I recommend you firmly coupled your subs to the floor and attenuate the intensity. It works for me.
Enjoy the music.
@@howardskeivys4184 I have been happy with the hockey pucks. But in mid-May (2022) I did try the SVS SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation System and they were very good. I have eliminated the hockey pucks and kept the SVS on since. But in terms of Townshend products, per the company I think the better product for subs is the Townshend bars. I may try the bars in the future. But for now the SVS system is working well. Thanks.
@@RJ_Chicago 👍🍻
I love my Rel Acoustics T7i Subwoofer... :)
Does this apply to the older Rel subs as well?
This advice applies for all REL subwoofer models, including older discontinued models.
As far back as a Strata 5? As I have one with the same Subdude platform. As it came with I never tried without, mainly from losing WAF wife acceptance factor in the living room
what about the down-firing Rel T5x on a suspended wooden floor? surely isolation would be essential in this instance but I'm open to being corrected.
Thank you for reaching out. Placing the subwoofer directly on the floor in your room is especially important with down-firing models such as the T/5x, since the proximity between the down-firing driver and the floor plays a crucial role in the sub's low-frequency performance. However, you are welcome to experiment with placing your T/5x on a platform to see if you prefer it's performance in your room when doing so.
This brings up a lot of questions because according to Dennis Foley, a sound engineer with his on company called "Acoustic Fields" you should get your subwoofer off the floor. And your subwoofer should not be in a corner. You can watch his videos on TH-cam. I have a Klipsch Synergy 7.1 system with a Klipsch SW-450 sub that I purchased years ago and it still "rocks". I did the subwoofer crawl and determined my sub sounded best in the center of the outside wall. I have it 12 inches away from the wall and elevated off the floor about 4 inches with brick. I placed a towel under the subwoofer because it is a down firing sub and I have hardwood floors.
Thank you for your response. This may be the case with subwoofers from other manufacturers, though in our experience placing the REL directly on the floor and in a corner will offer the best results, in part since REL subwoofers are designed to cross-over far lower than most subs.
Well,iown 2x REL SHO/3 and i had them on wooden floor but everytime i turned up the volume the subs moved because of the hard feet on REL against ,y wooden floor.
Bought SD pillows for 30 dollars and the subs stands still AND i got a better bass stage🙂
Although my RELs are directly on the wooden floor it isn't quite flat so you can rock them a bit. Should this be addressed? If so, how?
Blu-Tac
Rubber door stoppers, I had to do this with an older Velodyne that lost a foot.
As others have mentioned, placing a small amount of Blue-Tac on the bottom of your subwoofer's feet will help to prevent it from rocking on uneven floors or producing any audible rattle. Here is a link to our video which goes into additional detail regarding this topic: th-cam.com/video/hMkcHDeL-4A/w-d-xo.html
What about the other way around then - what if you have thick pile carpets in your listening space, do you want to "couple" them to the floor below by using spikes or is that also a no-go?
In our experience having carpeted floors will not negatively impact the performance of the subwoofer, as long as the carpet is not making contact with the subwoofer's driver, and the best results will still be achieved by having the subwoofer placed directly on your carpeted floors.
I know this sounds like a dumb question but does stacking the subs like Rel recommends decouple the subs on top?
No such thing as dumb questions, and thank you for reaching out. Decoupling a subwoofer from the floor does tend to reduce how deep the subwoofer can reach, though with a stacked line array configuration only the upper two subwoofers in each stack are raised off of the floor. The lowest subwoofer in each stack is still placed directly on the floor and is able to take advantage of the benefits of this direct coupling.
@@RELAcoustics I add to this, if space was not an issue, would than not be better to have 3 subs side by side on both side than stacking them?
@@maxortolan9955 Having multiple subwoofers placed on the floor side by side can offer benefits in some ways, though these will be different of course than if you were to stack the subwoofers in a line array configuration. For more information on subwoofer placement specific to your system, please write in to contactus@rel.net and we will be happy to assist.
Just got my REL t9x. Small room , its on the L side of the stereo cabinet, next to the L soeaker . I'm getting rumble from the vibrations up to the turntable. I guess it is the down-firing radiator. My other sub us front firing & 67 lbs, no rumble with that sub. So I moved the t9 to the L and a few inches forward but clise to the Left speaker. That helps, but wish I could get it into a corner but the area is so small. The sub speaker started going back & forth,out if control, i quickly hit Mute button. The t9x does sound very nice, but guess I never thought about my wood floors iver a basement. Still thinking
Thank you for reaching out. When you have a chance, please write in to contactus@rel.net and our support team will be happy to assist with troubleshooting this acoustic feedback issue.
What about instead weighing it down on top, I have some spare granite countertop material
I have such an platform from audilex for my Rel R528. Cause I have neighbors below me. And i thought that such a platform emulate the bass for the neighbors below me. Or do you say that that won't make a difference for the neighbors below with of without the platform?
Thank you Mr Hunter for the demo/video an advice,
This might be silly question, But would this technical explanation that you have just given us for the platforms!
Would also cover for isolation feet! such as SVS SOUND PATH ISOLATION SYSTEM? UK
Thank you for reaching out. To get the best possible performance from a REL subwoofer we recommend against the use of isolation feet or platforms. Instead, the subwoofer should be placed directly on the floor in your room using it's stock feet, and allowed to couple directly with the floor which will result in stronger dynamics and deeper low-frequency extension.
@@RELAcoustics Thank you for your reply and your advice it is well appreciated,
Kind regards
Mel…… UK 🏴
What about placing my sub on just a 12x 2 tile piece as opposed to the carpet
Thank you for reaching out. We typically recommend placing the subwoofer directly on the floor in your room, though you are welcome to experiment with placing it on a tile to see if you prefer it's performance this way.
Hi there 😊
How about carpet vs directly on the floor?
I have noticed also that most REL subs do not dig rock bottom deep (and this is part of what makes it faster, better soundquality etc). Would that mean that your subs will benefit from cornerloading? (My current subs Def Tech Supercub Ref, sounds better when not cornerloaded).
Thanks for great info.
André 😊
I just emailed to ask them the same questions. Both my rel 1205 sounds flat in my media room
@@djqx
I suppose you have tried moving them around, fidling with fase/ timealignment etc?
I find that placement is important. 😊
@@andreemilsen369 yup. Tried it all. Room is a 13 x 14 with cathedral ceiling. Bass has very good low frequency close to the walls and in the corners but as you approach the center of the room, the bass rapidly becomes flat
@@andreemilsen369 i placed them in adjacent corners of the room and that seems to be the best. The whole house is shaking but quality is horrible unless you sit or lay closer to the walls
@@djqx
It is usually the case that quantity goes up, quality goes down when subs are placed in the corner.
I had to get a MiniDSP and use that to flatten the respons. I find it very dificult to find a flat enouch curve without DSP.
Might also be worth fiddling with fase, frequenzyband, speakers small/ large (I get better integration with my front and center as large, but the are large with dual 12s an dual 10s for center).
I have never heard a REL sub, bit from what I read/ youtube, they usually are very articulate and fast, not boomy?
What speakers do you have, how are they placed?
One other thing you can do too, is moving your listening position, that made a significant difference in my room. Roomtreatment too. (I have the nonexpencive options, selfmade, but it really does change the aucoustics of my room).
Is this also true when you live on a wooden suspended floor in an older appartment building?
Thank you for watching, and yes this guidance applies when placing the subwoofer in any environment, including apartments or buildings with suspended flooring. Placing the subwoofer on an isolation platform will possibly help to lessen vibration transfer into the suspended floor, though it will also limit the overall output power and low-frequency extension potential of the unit.
Thanks for the reaction! Okay I will prioritize sound quality over my neighbors peace.🙏
I think i am agree with this because i have tested myself .........for example take a portable speaker and stick it with your hand to the windows and you will hear more bass
Please show measurements to support these anecdotes.
I understand what you're saying about not de-coupling a subwoofer, but when it comes to floor standers, say even with a newer Rel floor standing speaker, does that rule still apply? In other words, is coupling always good for every type of speaker and sub? I hope you can answer this definitely for us 🙏
Thank you for reaching out. We recommend direct coupling of our REL subwoofers with the floor in your room, and to not use isolation platforms or other isolation products with our subwoofers. However, some main loudspeakers or other manufacturer's subwoofers may benefit from isolation and de-coupling, and it would be worth contacting the manufacturer of the subwoofer or speakers for more information.
What about in a listening area? My room has short shag carpet throughout
I'd like an answer to that question myself
In our experience having carpeted floors will not negatively impact the performance of the subwoofer, and will still provide the benefits of directly coupling the subwoofer with the floor.
Measurements show what it’s doing. I’ve not seen sub 20 hz being changed by raising it up 2”. The low bass that you are talking about is under 20hz I believe. I haven’t seen bass change measurement wise on subs I’ve measured so I’m not sure your reasoning to say this without measurements. My 17hz tuned sub up .5” on soft rubber still measures the same.
Raising a subwoofer higher won't change the frequency performance of the subwoofer. But if you raise it to high then the bass from the subwoofer won't interact hit the floor as quickly.
Ie the bass waves won't rumble through the floor as much as if the subwoofer was lower down closer to the floor. It's not rocket science if you think logically.
I'll have to agree to disagree with the expert as I have decoupled my REL Carbon Special via Townshend Audio Seismic Pods and IsoAcoustics Oreas puck and the difference is night and day. My floor is laminate over floorbaords so like people says resonates and it is not flat, previously my REL Carbon Limited would rock. At exactly the same amplifier levels coupled to the floor BOOM and diffuse bass; decoupled defined BASS not room BOOM. I feel know lack of BASS in my system and most definitely hear the impact if not feel it. P.S. I was at a live Jazz concert and my system sound correlated with the musicians there was no BOOM but bass definition
Absolutely right, I used a vibration app on my iPhone and could "see" the impuls from "We want war" deep drum runn through wooden floor and return from wall into my speakers, so 1. Your wodden floor adds a big drum which is not there originally and 2. your speakers are not shaken from returning structural waves
I don't use a REL but have Nobsound springs supporting my sub. The sound quality is much better than the standard spikes that came with the sub.
I agree to disagree with John too. I have the IsoPuck minis on my T Zero and was blown away and now would never think about taking them off once you listen! Bass is so much tighter and I can really turn up my crossover and it just blends in seamlessly. I also have the Oreas on all of my other equipment including my power conditioner. Isolating that was a game changer!
Hate to admit it but I'm one of those idiots who tried to take it to the next level 🤣🤣🤣
Did you suspend it from the ceiling with steel braided line? I've thought about doing this with all my speakers. And then I realized I was insane. Well I knew before that..
@@erics.4113 Hahaha, I also thought about that. But then hanging them from the ceiling. Will not do it though, it probably brings other problems into play. And what if one of the cords breaks... Will look into isoacoustics Gaia's probably safer, albeit expensive
@@MrBouncingDeath I just looked at those and almost justified the II's for my klispch floorstanders and then was like hey, wait a minute. That's for four and I need two sets! So $600 on feet for $800 pair of speakers. Then I remembered I'm insane so they aren't off the table. I'm also a sucker for good machined parts. Just love the look.
@@erics.4113 They are great, some stores will let you demo them. As soon as you try them they will probably stay in you home. The price is steep, they are more expensive than my speakers+stands combined. But they will last you a life time and can be used with all the upgrades you will make in the future
@@MrBouncingDeath all good points. I considered that I can remove them if I sell the speakers so it's not like I lose them. I'm wondering if I will gain much other than looks considering they would be on klipsch floorstanders and I'm on concrete floors. Well... vinyl plank covered concrete. I'll see if my local shop has them I would definitely give them a try if I don't just blind purchase them. I'm hoping I can also get away with the II's seeing that they have a 70lb max weight and that's what the klipsch weigh
I reviewed a lot of the questions on this channel and I realize that people don’t realize that REL is a sub bass system and not a subwoofer (as you know it). Most subwoofers will have you cross them over and 80 Hz however that is one way to do it not; not the best way to do it. Rel’s Offer a far better way to do it which is to come in underneath the main speaker and argument it
Where can I learn more about the difference?
I think you mean ‘augment’ it 🙂
@@defsonic2884 They are more than subs, and there is magic in there.
RELs don't just add volume to low sounds, they somehow blend with the lower few octaves of the main speakers, and augment the entire spectrum.
You can crank them to 125 DB if you want to show off your subs, but that's not their design intent. Especially when your reference volume is 75 or 85 DB.
@@Searcher356 No Subwoofer REL etc has magic inside it lol. Audioholics who know what there talking about even said this about REL subs 👍🏻
@@Searcher356 That is what all subwoofers are meant to do, but only achieve this when integrated properly. It’s not magic.
since isolation platform reduce the low bass, wouldnt it be doing so for stacking sub?
It doesn’t….
Decoupling a subwoofer from the floor does tend to reduce how deep the subwoofer can reach, though with a stacked line array configuration only the upper two subwoofers in each stack are raised off of the floor. The lowest subwoofer in each stack is still placed directly on the floor and is able to take advantage of the benefits of this direct coupling.
This only applies to Rel subs?
I think so, REL subs (atleast the T series) dont play that deep so they probably need the floors to augment their bass.
The tips in this video specifically relate to REL subwoofers, though direct coupling of the subwoofer with your floor can also be beneficial with other down-firing subwoofers.
The point "Energy is trapped in the sub" seems a bit cryptic to me. I get the concept, but what are the actual consequences? Does it distort the sound? Does it break the equipment? That would have been helpful to add.
Thank you for reaching out. Many of our subwoofer designs use the surface below the subwoofer (ideally the floor) to reinforce their output and evenly project that output into the room. De-coupling the subwoofer from the floor using isolation devices will not damage the subwoofer in any way, but they can noticeably limit their low-frequency extension potential and overall output power.
I Put the SUB Back on the Floor and it is way better.I ask myself if i would put spikes directly in the SUB and then directly in the stone floor with carpet..so no plates under the spikes, directly coupling Floor🤔
down firing subs are not apartment friendly and this prevents owning them. The great country of USA is the most advanced nation in the world, so advanced that we have great floor to floor isolation systems and factored into our hi rents......nah jk.........short story: if you want to own REL subs and not annoy your downstairs neighbors, isolation platform + granite block are the way out.
oh well my neighbors wouldn't be happy tomorrow
I live in a 4-plex and when I used a platform for my 3x8 Niles the neighbors said it was way louder and the whole system just sounded boomy.
S510 on the way. 😁
I got my 812 on isolation pads and to me it sounds the same.. lol
appreciate your explanation, but the platform you show, the Aurelux, is not in any way wobbly.
Whether the platform is more stiff or not, putting a subwoofer on a platform will still reduce the amount of deep bass a REL subwoofer is able to reproduce.
@@RELAcoustics Here in the UK a lot of homes have suspended flimsy wood plank flooring. So using a granite or bamboo platform would give a much more solid stable base for a subwoofer to sit on. Subwoofers perform best when their on a hard stable floor.
The Aurelux platform is mostly foam so it will compress & expand ie not fully stable. But granite or bamboo will give a rock solid completely stable foundation for a subwoofer.
I see REL subwoofers already have quite high feet attached to them. So I'm guessing that's why you don't advise using a isolation platform. My subwoofer the feet are much smaller in height than the REL feet.
What if, in my case, I used a 20kg block of rock on isolation feet? I do live in a small apartment, and I still get decent low end with the sub on it's little throne. Despite being only a tzero it still digs quite deep when placed in the corner as recommended despite not being placed directly on the floor to keep the neighbors happy. But upon seeing this video I do agree that I get a different response from it when placed directly on the floor, same spot. But regardless, very happy with the sub, totally transformed my system. It sounded good before, now it's fenomenal in comparison.
I have to disagree with him here in many circumstances. Exciting floor resonances is often not good, decoupling prevents some of that. Yes you'll get less fake bass, but what you will get is more definition and accuracy. This is because high quality decouplers will decrease settling time as well as let let ground borne vibrations back into the speaker. The solution is to just buy a much larger driver. I use one single subwoofer open baffle. Its 21"!
"That's because it no longer plays bass"... I Didn't know REL subs also play mid and / or high frequencies. If that's the case then it begs the question why they're called subwoofers. Saying that moving a sub up by a couple of inches degrades it's impact as a low frequency generator is utter nonsense. Harman have done studies and find out that the best position to place a sub in a room is at 1/4 of the rooms dimension on all axis. Not practical, but effective.
Agreed. And if you have two subs then ideally they should be at slightly different heights!
@@steven2809 Well not according to Harman, but Earl Geddes might approve. I'm not aware of any studies that prove that in room positioning concerning different heights have any advantages except the Harman 1/4. But there's many good options and studies done where to place your sub on floor level. Best place for a sub will always be in or on the wall as a single or double bass array.
Absolute rubbish. Decoupling from the floor improves the sound as it reduces exciting the floor to ceiling node and improves room response. Not everyone wants loads of ‘sub bass’ ….it simply doesn’t exist in most music anyway.
What about electronic music?
@@rohanchowdhary975 What about it? It still needs the correct frequency response to hear as the artist intended....
@@steven2809I was referring to your statement, where you said music has no sub-bass. I wanted to know if electric music has it or not.
Thanks
@@rohanchowdhary975 Hi. I did not say music has no sub-bass. It depends on the music. Acoustic or orchestral instruments have no extreme sub bass. Read my comment again... I said not everyone wants LOADS of sub bass....that is increased artificially by inaccurate room response. 🙂
Why put anything but the floor under your subwoofer or subwoofers? The floor is there for a reason! So just put the subwoofer or subwoofers on the floor! Done... That's it, that's all...🤛💪🏽👌👍😉🤭
Some Folk's live in apartments and are trying to be considerate.
Wrong….
@@steven2809 @Steven Not sure which part of the rock your from. But over here in the Uk, "SOME" inner city apartments aren't that large and with folk's living on top of each other noise issues can be a problem. If someone farts from the top floor, you can hear it at the bottom. My job allows me to visit on average 15 properties per week and I've witness noise problems on a daily basis. Even sound bars can be problematic. All the hassles and bussles of living in a 24 hr inner city apartment environment is when you've finished your work for the day/night and you need to rest, Your neighbours are just arising and playing their music Loudly. At times Decoupling Loudspeakers and Subwoofers from floors is the only option one has. Until one eventually can afford to buy their own apartment with dedicated room and living space.
@@xzing7 I agree. I live in UK too….in a small apartment! My comment was to Javier…..who said why put anything on the floor…..👍
@@steven2809 Add to that here in the UK quite a lot of floors are flimsy suspended wooden planks. Putting a subwoofer directly on the floor (even with carpet on top) will rattle shake the flooring. Ie the subwoofer shaking with the flimsy flooring.
So putting a solid stable granite or bamboo platform underneath the subwoofer. Will give the subwoofer a rock solid non shaking platform, improve the performance.
I'm not to keen on the foam platforms as the open cell foam will absorb the bass from the woofers. I've got neighbours underneath too but hard tile over a concrete floor, underlay & carpet over the tiles.
I use a 2.2 inch high solid dense four layer plywood platform. With two very thin layers of anti vibration material between the plywood layers. Doesn't absorb the low frequency like the foam platforms Auralex etc will.
SVS fans won't like this.......
R James) SVS fans don’t own REL Subwoofers, so they are free to use elevators if recommended by SVS. I have one mono subwoofer lifted to reduce its low end responses it’s very large and sounds great and two small subwoofers in a different setup for left and right channels. I don’t have an SVS or REL Appliance but I do like them both. My small subwoofers are on the wooden floor to enhance it’s performance and they sound great 👍. John sells and builds these products so he’s trying to please his current and future consumer. I don’t really see it has a blow to SVS ,Klipsch etc. He’s stated they (REL) voiced there product without platforms.
Most of us audiophiles live in Apartments?
This is very unprofessional, confusing many terms, too much snake oil involved. You can put anything under subs to avoid vibration transmission. It will also make the sound measurably better and cleaner. Advice from a real audio technician :)
It also depends on the platform and how much off the floor they are raised.
@@Oneness100 Yep around 3 inches off the floor won't be that high. Also you have to take into account how tall the feet are that are already on the subwoofer.
Some subwoofers come with massive tall feet. While some subwoofers come with small feet not that high.
@@C--A actually it might even sound better several feet high on platforms with built in low frequency absorption. The shortest distance is usually the floor to ceiling and you want to raise up so they are more in the middle, with low frequency absorption to absorb what doesn’t fit in the floor to ceiling dimension.
hi John, I find your suggestion most interesting, especially when I compare it with those of Dennis Foley of Acoustic Fields, that I believe is also a very serious and professional expert on the matter. He always suggest to lift subs from floor using platforms. Also in a video of yesterday, 6th November, he reports that subs in reality do not fit in any room. That anyway should be lifted and placed on platforms to "isolate, elevate, attenuate" as is the best position closer to the source.
Would be lovely maybe one day to see if you two could meet and test in a room some REL subs with his platform to see how works. Or see the two of you discussing about it
I'd love to hear both of them talk about it too with each other. They both seem to be experts with opposing opinions.
right Tyler. Also because at the end are not competitors. Just professionals in different fields of the Audio industry. So could be an interesting discussion. No idea if they ever met. Perhaps they could organise an online conference call and stream it.
Max Ortolan Dennis Foley isn't a expert. The guy doesn't have any academic degrees in engineering, acoustics. Go on AVS forums and you will see he has ripped off quite a few people. And lied about the performance of his room treatment products!
Someone who actually knows properly about room acoustics is Anthony Grimani. He's a expert with degrees etc and previously worked at Dolby, THX to back it up.
@@C--A thanks for the info! useful to have this view.