I’d argue SA2, there’s a ton of secret ways to get more points to get an A rank. Unleashed essentially has a no hit policy to getting an A rank on the daytime stages which is fine and I don’t think it’s bad but I like how even though SA2 was linear there are tons of secrets to find that reward creativity and skill
This is perfectly said, excellent job! I am also happy to see some appreciation for 06s ranking, I was VERY surprised how challenging it was to get S ranks. SA2s A Ranking is the best in my opinion because it requires you to be fully engaged and requires all of your attention to get those A ranks no matter the amount of time in the games. Generations on the other hand gives you an S rank for basically just not dying..and takes a lot of the inner satisfaction of getting that S rank due to it being basically a participation trophy, that’s my two cents on it!
As someone who's actually gotten all S-ranks for Sonic Colors, I can say that game did it unbelievably well. I think there was only two stages in the entire game that I got an S-rank on my first try, and the rest I had to master with the use of Wisps, speed, and red ring/ring collecting. Sure it was infuriatingly demanding, but it made me super proud to see that sparkly gray S as a reward. When I went back to Generations, I was taken aback by just how simple S-ranks are to achieve in that game, not to mention your ranking gets boosted up a rank simply because of a "perfect bonus", which I thought was so unnecessary. Weirdly enough I think Forces had some challenge to get an S-rank on a handful of stages, but I hated how the lowest rank you could get was a C-rank. I can't really speak my mind with the other games as I never bothered for ranking systems in Sonic games until Colors, though I will say that none of them were a pushover with S-ranks and/or A-ranks, which was a good thing.
@@maymakesart8300 unleashed had harder S ranks and the game doesn't tell you what is needed to get to the next rank. In Adventure 2 it was easy to know what is needed for the next rank. But tbh I like harder S ranks as it gives you a reason to get better at the game.
One of thing I actually did like in Heroes and Colors, and one of the things I disliked in Generations. SA2 and Unleashed still did this the best. If anyone is curious, try the new Score Generations mod from about a month ago. It’s really a breath of fresh air for the game.
I 100% agree that a good ranking system gives satisfaction, I love mastering the stages of Sonic Unleashed and then receiving an S rank. The same goes for SA2 and Heroes. Colors is kinda mixed because what gives you S ranks is sitting around getting color bonuses, spamming quick step in QS sections, and getting other bonuses like drift in those sections. I wish it was more based on stage mastery other than spamming what gives you a bonus score
Totally agree on the Colors thing. I always despised the ranking system in that game. Good ranks in a Sonic game shouldn’t require you to drill in a circle for 10 minutes.
Shadow the Hedgehog's ranking system was pretty interesting due to that whole mechanic of Hero and Dark points making you have to think about how you're playing the level if you're going for a specific mission to A Rank it.
I think Unleashed had the best ranking system. I remember when I was playing Arid sands (Day) I got a E , played the level again a couple of times and got a C. But after a whole month of playing that level over and over, I finally got a S.
@@rosejett144 Yeah and the Day S Ranks were just down right ludicrous and never made it clear what gives you points and what each stage wants you to focus on like Savannah Citadel just cares about enemies and Arid Sands just cares about time which is really stupid.
@@rosejett144 Maybe you're just really good at Unleashed lol. But honestly 100 percenting it made me not like the Day Stages in that version it's like Death by a thousand papercuts with the unresponsive buttons, input delay, broken drift, lag, etc etc. I still like the Night stages tho and everything else about the 360 version tho. Ngl I prefer the Wii version now (which I also 100 percented) I think it has way less issues and is more fun overall.
@@segaspice4062 We need unleashed ranking system. SA2 is difficult to the point of not being fun. Having atleast a little leg room feels nice instead of needing to be literally frame perfect
@@trymetrix857 i played unleashed for all s ranks and i can say that is a straight up lie, sa2 requires you to be good and unleashed requires you to be a freaking god, i literally loose s ranks on unleashed by being hit once in the stage!
4:52 Episode Shadow actually had a difficult ranking system which required you to be perfect at the levels in order to get it. Getting the S rank in Virtual Reality was insanely fun and challenging. Kinda wish the whole game was like that :|
In my personal opinion, the individual value of each rank is as follows: E rank: Pathetic. D rank: Needs improvement. C rank: Well done. You tried. B rank: Good, but not great. A rank: Great job. S rank: Perfection!
Important video! And yes I hard agree, S ranks are very important as an indicator that you have properly experienced all there is to experience, in terms of all the design choices the developers prepared for players. Aspects like not getting hit, not being too slow, killing enough enemies, not hitting civilians (Black knight) and more of each level section!! Btw I think Black knight has a fantastic ranking system if you want to check deeper into that! It has an honorable knight parameter where you don't attack the backs of enemies, and dont harm civilians, and ofc giving rings to civilians and such
The rank system in Sonic Generations 3DS is different, and it is challenging You didn't metion it, but Sonic Advance 3 have one of the best ranking systems too, it only requires speed, but you REALLY need to know the levels and master it to be the fastest and get all the shortcuts, and learn to use the characters in the best way
Advance 3 ALSO makes the team system is super cool and can use your team to beat the level, like sunset hill act 2 or 3 theirs a big wall that covers most of the stage BUT if your knuckles you can climb over it to get an amazing time.
You love that one cyberspace from frontiers if only more were that strict with the time, currently replaying Generations on PC because of the hype of Sonic X Shadow Generations & no joke it took me 16 minutes to beat Classic Planet Wisp & still somehow got a B. The most challenging aspect of the entire game so far was the achievement to get through Modern Chemical Plant without ever being submerged in water. It took nearly an hour of attempts, but once I got it, it felt amazing. For replayability & longevity, I hope they add fun achievements in the stages in future games.
I agree with you. I'm not that hardcore player that always 100% everything and I actually only did this on Riders, Zero Gravity and Adventure DX (from Sonic games), so you might think I'd want to get best ranks just by playing the game, but it honestly feels so bad to get good ranks after being objectively bad. I remember how I sucked at some stage in Forces (I do not remember the details) and almost got offended when I got best rank possible for it, lol At the same time I'd like to point out that the feeling when I struggled with something in these games as a child just to get the worst rank possible is horrible (I freaking sucked at Heroes 😢)
sonic unleashed ranking system was the best imo out of the whole series u feel so accomplished when u get an s rank u gotta know the level in and out to get it
I feel like you were on the losing side of the debate (Sorry), but this was one of your best arguments/points in that debate: "Sonic Colors you have the option just complete it fast and get a shit rank and have the ego of 'hey, I got a fast time' *or* you can have the ego of 'hey, I beat this level and I mastered it with all the level gimmicks and all the wisps.' You can do that. You can have all sides. Sonic Generations only has one side, and that is time. Sonic Colors has everything." And unrelated to that, a ranking mod for SA1 would be interesting. (If there isn't one already) Enjoyed the video, Matt.
In sonic unleashed years ago when i was a kid i beated eggmanland fater 3 HOURS with barely any score and lots of death in the end i got an E rank and even tho i should have been pissed hearing the werehog screaming and the music becoming weird ended up making me laugh an turn for the best i guess
In Generations and Forces it was an issue anyway. They just handed out S ranks there. You know there's a problem when you have to try really hard to get a B rank or lower. Great video!
I’ve only recently started to care about S ranks recently and it really helps prolong the games playtime. I’ve put over 30 hours on Sonic Colors trying to complete everything
I recently started replaying generations after all this time. I was surprised I was making so much mistakes, taking things slow and safe, and still getting S rank. The only way I'd get a lower rank was if I died trying to get a tricky red ring on my first try. It's really forgiving and easy to get an S rank, while colors (the original, haven't played the new one) I remember it being at least somewhat hard to get S ranks. I totally agree with you, a ranking system should be hard to master.
Tbf sonic forces ranking system wasn't that bad. The game was just so easy that u were guaranteed an s rank. If u have 0 rings at the end of the stage you won't get the s rank, it's just that the game is so easy that u won't actually have the challenge of not losing ur rings.
uh no the video game’s design is structured partly by the ranking system. if it’s the game’s problem,, then it is the fault of the ranking system by default
Maybe with the tails save, they could make it to where if you use it, your score lowers, meaning you get a worse rank than what you would if you beat it without using the tails save. I think that would keep some of the challenge with getting S ranks in colors ultimate.
Soniv unleashed for the PS2 has it ridiculously hard. Like, eggmanland has it for 4 and half minutes to get an s. I'd suggest to anyone to see clips for it.
The main issue I see with Sonic Adventure 2's ranking system is that you have to know what you've gotta go out of your way to do, and it's a lot more cryptic feeling than how Sonic Colors handled that. If you haven't memorized where certain things are, you're basically stuck no matter how hard you play the level... and Metal Harbor is actually a good example of what looks like bad ranking design, with the short tunnel section with absurd bonuses that could significantly boost your rank if you A) get lucky or B) have somehow memorized the movements you need to make in this incredibly slippery section.
I just like getting better times on my runs. Like getting the minus times is super satisfying in generations. And getting the A ranks in adventure 1 is also fun then improving that time still bring me back to that game.
I'm gunna defend generations because of its large priority of best times I feel like generations instead of striving for the S-Rank wants you to improve upon your time
The Sonic Rush trilogy had good ranking systems too, don't forget those. Those really pushed me to my limits and forced me to get good lol. In the case of 1 and Rush Adventure, it was all about doing tons of tricks, blazing through the level, and getting tons of rings, and if you don't do one of those well enough, you get an A Rank instead. In the case of Colors DS, you mainly get S Ranks by clearing the stages fast, but you WILL NOT get an S Rank on your first go. It was all about using the Wisps to your advantage, and using those to go faster. I also thought Episode Shadow had a good ranking system, Virtual Reality is infamous for the VERY strict S Rank requirement
Damn I always thought that I was the only to get mad at the forces and gens super easy S ranks Sometimes getting the strategies and training the level can be pretty frustrating, but when you se the shining S (or pink/red A) the satisfaction is great, then you see that wasn't that hard to get it, and now you're not just better at the game but you feel that Oh, and nice video :^)
Really good topic to discuss. I really liked the ranking system of every Sonic game up until Generations. It actually feels like it was going to have a better one but at the last second they toned it down. Even Generations 3DS has a better one.
Maybe someone else has mentioned it, but the ranking system actually started in SA1, sure they were called "levels" but it was effective the same thing
I personally am OK with harsh ranking systems, but I prefer it to either be points or time. Not both. I need it to be measurable. I need to be able to understand my progress.
I definitely agree with you, but I also think there should be a slightly better balance. I think Sega is trying to make the S ranks super easy so everyone can enjoy getting them, because other games it was so difficult. But the way it is now makes ranks pointless. I would prefer things closer to the level of sa2, but maybe just a tad less difficult. I don’t want to take the challenge away from the people who love perfecting and completing the most difficult challenges, but it would be nice if I didn’t have to be a god at the game to get the highest rank also. The funny thing is despite that, the easy S ranks in Generations is one of the least annoying issues I have with the game. While I do like Generations, there are so many things that make it a frustrating experience. But I’m not gonna get into that.
This is exactly why I like the fact that Colors is getting remastered. That game had the best ranking system of the boost games in my opinion. We haven't had a good ranking system like that since the Adventure days. (I could be wrong tho.)
I'm currently grinding for A ranks in Sonic Heroes. You forgot to mention that Heroes also has something special for getting every A rank: Super Hard Mode.
I liked sonic rush's ranking system. You had to earn a certain amount of points to get an S. Just being fast isn't enough, you have to do tricks, defeat enemies and be stylish overall kinda like SA2's but a little toned down. I don't consider that a bad thing though
There is one thing Sonic Forces doesn't get enough credits personally. You said that Sonic can do like the relics in Crash Bandicoot, and make you have to complete the stage super fast. Well, while Sonic Forces has pretty easy S ranks, the time trial missions are exactly that. They make you complete the stage as fast as possible, and beat the time. And even as soon as Ghost Town, those missions are very hard in my opinion. You need to perfect your run, and not lose time. Of course not every stages have those missions, while every stages have a S rank, but at least there is some mastery of the stage required in the game, and is in my opinion the best part about Sonic Forces.
The first Sonic Adventure had a basic ranking system as well. It took the form of Ranked Missions. So in order to get the A Rank, you had to first complete B Rank run, and to get access to that, you’d need to complete the C Rank mission. Generally, they were the same stage, but with a stricter time limit or score requirement. SA2 also had a similar mission structure with the Mystic Medley missions for example, requiring five different runs through each stage.
@@Tom-jw7ii it was essentially the prototypical ranking system, and what would eventually evolve into a proper ranking system. It was certainly not a true ranking system. I agree.
@@Red7Ent Maybe you could consider it a predecessor, but it really shares no similarities with a ranking system except for the lettering. Also considering that the system still exists in SA2 along with a separate ranking system, I think it's safe to say they're completely different things.
@@Tom-jw7ii I see it as the team experimenting with ways of challenging the player, and implementing it again in SA2 to provide different missions (SA1 was generally just increased difficulty challenges as opposed to the variety in SA2 like Mystic Medley for example). I think they weren’t sure which they wanted to settle with, so they tried both in SA2. Personally, I see the ranking system and the mission stages as two separate evolutions of the same idea. Over time, the two became more and more distinct from one another, and now we have things like Red Rings and other in-stage objectives that are the modern evolution of the mission based system in SA2 whereas the ranking system we still have today has largely gone unchanged since SA2, but again, I see both as an evolution of the one in SA1.
I think for the ranking system it should be fairly easy to get a B rank, but for A and S you gotta do quite the challenge. If it's too hard it might be discouraging for some players. Imagine playing and feel you did well, but the rank said D or E 😅😅
What pisses me off with unleashed's ranking system is that the game doesn't reward you for getting all S ranks while getting them is extremely hard. If there was a reward then there wouldn't be any complaints imo.
300th Also I would like to see a video where you beat sonic with your feet. No hands. That would make for interesting content. How would it go. It must be an easy Sonic game but not too easy. A game that is mostly casual. If you beat it try harder Sonic games.
I think generations’ ranking system was perfectly fine, but unleashed (HD), SA2, heroes & colours definitely had better ranking systems though. Also sonic games replay-ability wise are more than just their ranking systems & generations’ is no exception cause it still has great replay value in the form of the hard mode bosses, extra missions, the Red star rings for unlockables etc.
Unleashed Ranking on the Wii I like it a lot and uses the emblems for something more optional. There, the higher the rank, the more emblems you get. The more emblems you get, the more side stuff (cinematics, music, concept art, lives, etc.). How do you get an S rank there? Day stages: Reach the goal under X minutes Night stages: Number of enemies killed required, reach the goal under x minutes, and collect X quantity of rings You'd think it sounds simple, but it is a better way and a simple way to make the rankings, and also hard. Believe me, getting the S ranks in the day stages requires you to know the level perfectly and making almost no mistakes.
Wait, wasn’t the ranking system present in Sonic Adventure 1? Shouldn’t that be considered as the first Sonic game to introduce the ranking system instead of Sonic Adventure 2?
I agree that the raking system is kinda bad these days and I would love it if they make it better but i still think that it is one of the last things that Sega had to focus on (because they have a lot to fix in the games)
I'd they ever remake/remaster Unleashed, maybe have getting an S-Rank open up the challenge stages for that level, out give your bonus sun and moon medals, or some new medal altogether, all of which can only be used to purchase stuff like cosmetics or remixed songs, and things of that nature.
The only problem I have with Adventure 2's ranking system is the fact you can get an A rank automatically by collecting every ring in a stage. Granted, in a lot of stages, that's probably down right impossible. But the fact that it's there is an issue. Generations is far too easy S rank, granted. I like the idea of having to complete the stage without dying to get it, if you do the best you'll get is an A rank. That's a good part of it. But it lacks the difficult of Adventure 2's ranking system
I think we should go b ack to A ranks like SA1-SA2. But I do agree with everything in this video. (Getting a S rank in generations is hard in my opinion.)
While I agree that the ranking system in Generations sucks, I think it's worth noting that the Doppelganger races, which are available for every level in the game as a side mission, have much stricter S rank requirements which I think make up for the trivially easy S ranks on the regular stages
Should be pointed out that Sonic Generations is a much shorter game than Sonic Colors. It is very possible to get S ranks your first time in some of the stages in Sonic Colors and Unleashed, especially the early stages. But Sonic Generations doesn’t have very far to push the difficult level because it’s so short
They made the ranking systems easier in future Sonic titles. SA2 ranking system had a perfect balance when it comes to increasing points same applies to Sonic Heroes. The last Sonic game with good ranking System is Sonic Colors.
Lives + Old ranking system as a hardmode would give older fans what they want and still appeal to the younger fans or casuals who aren't as good at the game.
Generations Ranking don’t even bother me anymore cause there’s a mission in a every zine of the game which is about chasing a ghost opponent of Sonic and the S ranks for those missions are actually somewhat of challenging.
I remeber when i would grind out metal harbour for a ranks but would always get a c until i realised the top path on the rocket and got an a sa2 ranking sytstem not all about speed but it is so hard but so rewarding.
there should have atleast have the S Rank to make it challenging and give a reward not only for satisfaction but also shows the skills you have played and some type of extra to add to it
the redeeming quality of Forces' ranking system is that it counts how many times you die, making it automatically a great ranking system, too bad it was in a linear short game. And that was it for the goods of recent Sonic ranking systems. Others, especially the generations one, is really terrible.
Honestly All I want in a Sonic Game is good gameplay with replability and a good story, but I don't mind the challenge of the ranking system like Unleashed or even 06 at mind.
I agree with everything you said, except for Colors. The game itself is fine and all, but the ranking system is one of my least favorites. The reason for that is simply because of the wisps. Even if the ranking system in Colors is based on skill, I wouldn’t know that because I’ve perfected many of the levels and I would still get an A or B. The reason for that is because I’d always ignore the wisps, which, for me anyway, were huge pace breakers. However, they were crucial for getting S ranks because of the amount of points they gave. So essentially, they wanted you to speed through the stages with minimal error while also stopping your progress by forcing you to screw around as a wisp to get a lot more points. And that killed it for me.
About S Ranks on Generations I dunno, i liked them, i think the fact that you get an Rank worse than S in that game kinda makes you feel pathetic for losing an easy challenge. Talking about challenges, i think some S Rank challenges of Generations were way more satisfying than the Level ones.
oh, also, try to get an S rank on Episode Shadow's levels easily. Those are absolutely not easy, despite most of forces S ranks being simple, I definitely think people sleep on Episode Shadow
Unleashed had it good, but maybe it was a little too hard. However, I think it's the best one, then with Adventure 2 following, then Rush.
Nah Sonic colours is the best
I’d argue SA2, there’s a ton of secret ways to get more points to get an A rank. Unleashed essentially has a no hit policy to getting an A rank on the daytime stages which is fine and I don’t think it’s bad but I like how even though SA2 was linear there are tons of secrets to find that reward creativity and skill
Just no lol SA2 is worse than both unleashed and colours
Unleashed had a good system but it was a bit uneven. It's actually harder NOT to get an S on Jungle Joyride day.
@@shay_3859 You can even explain why it's horrible. Just it's "SA2 ranking is horrible" which is a load of BS.
This is perfectly said, excellent job! I am also happy to see some appreciation for 06s ranking, I was VERY surprised how challenging it was to get S ranks. SA2s A Ranking is the best in my opinion because it requires you to be fully engaged and requires all of your attention to get those A ranks no matter the amount of time in the games. Generations on the other hand gives you an S rank for basically just not dying..and takes a lot of the inner satisfaction of getting that S rank due to it being basically a participation trophy, that’s my two cents on it!
Hey its the guy who doesnt accept opinions on sonic 4
But man it’s really hard to get A rank on SA2
If you're opponent's only defense for Sonic Generations being better in terms of ranking is "Who cares?", then he already lost, lol.
He destroyed me pretty hard on other points.
I prefer it over Unleashed
@@Sydney_Angelyt Unleashed is still the GOAT IMHO.
@@Sydney_Angelyt nah, generations is too easy in ranking, atleast you need skill to get a good rank in unleashed
@@raptorzeraora2632Yeah sure, if you call asking for perfection “skill”.
As someone who's actually gotten all S-ranks for Sonic Colors, I can say that game did it unbelievably well. I think there was only two stages in the entire game that I got an S-rank on my first try, and the rest I had to master with the use of Wisps, speed, and red ring/ring collecting. Sure it was infuriatingly demanding, but it made me super proud to see that sparkly gray S as a reward.
When I went back to Generations, I was taken aback by just how simple S-ranks are to achieve in that game, not to mention your ranking gets boosted up a rank simply because of a "perfect bonus", which I thought was so unnecessary.
Weirdly enough I think Forces had some challenge to get an S-rank on a handful of stages, but I hated how the lowest rank you could get was a C-rank.
I can't really speak my mind with the other games as I never bothered for ranking systems in Sonic games until Colors, though I will say that none of them were a pushover with S-ranks and/or A-ranks, which was a good thing.
Knew this would be coming as soon as the TailsChannel debate happened last week.
Not surprised I figured that that might be the very case. Lol
I just hope they make the ranking system in sonic rangers like sonic adventure 2
SA2 ranking is a bit too strict for my tastes tbh. I'd rather Unleashed system
Or sonic colors ranking system
Have the ranks like gens
@@cakelayer WTF?!!! NEVER!!!
I WANT HARD S RANKS
@@maymakesart8300 unleashed had harder S ranks and the game doesn't tell you what is needed to get to the next rank. In Adventure 2 it was easy to know what is needed for the next rank. But tbh I like harder S ranks as it gives you a reason to get better at the game.
One of thing I actually did like in Heroes and Colors, and one of the things I disliked in Generations. SA2 and Unleashed still did this the best. If anyone is curious, try the new Score Generations mod from about a month ago. It’s really a breath of fresh air for the game.
what is it called
Unleashed's ranks was dogshit lmao
@@rosejett144 git gud
@@rosejett144 Get good at the game
@@rosejett144 How?
I 100% agree that a good ranking system gives satisfaction, I love mastering the stages of Sonic Unleashed and then receiving an S rank. The same goes for SA2 and Heroes. Colors is kinda mixed because what gives you S ranks is sitting around getting color bonuses, spamming quick step in QS sections, and getting other bonuses like drift in those sections. I wish it was more based on stage mastery other than spamming what gives you a bonus score
Totally agree on the Colors thing. I always despised the ranking system in that game. Good ranks in a Sonic game shouldn’t require you to drill in a circle for 10 minutes.
Shadow the Hedgehog's ranking system was pretty interesting due to that whole mechanic of Hero and Dark points making you have to think about how you're playing the level if you're going for a specific mission to A Rank it.
I think Unleashed had the best ranking system. I remember when I was playing Arid sands (Day) I got a E , played the level again a couple of times and got a C. But after a whole month of playing that level over and over, I finally got a S.
It really didn't, with Werehog you farm grabs and easy S ranks.
@@rosejett144 Yeah and the Day S Ranks were just down right ludicrous and never made it clear what gives you points and what each stage wants you to focus on like Savannah Citadel just cares about enemies and Arid Sands just cares about time which is really stupid.
@@nikolepsysyndrome7538 Day stages were pretty consistent in my experience.
@@rosejett144 Maybe you're just really good at Unleashed lol. But honestly 100 percenting it made me not like the Day Stages in that version it's like Death by a thousand papercuts with the unresponsive buttons, input delay, broken drift, lag, etc etc. I still like the Night stages tho and everything else about the 360 version tho. Ngl I prefer the Wii version now (which I also 100 percented) I think it has way less issues and is more fun overall.
@@nikolepsysyndrome7538 Yeah for me with Unleashed, the littke shit just adds up.
We need a ranking system that is a middle-ground between SA2 and Unleashed's ranking system.
No we need a flat-out SA2 ranking system just so Sonic Fans will feel pain again. No longer will fake youtubers act like Professionals.
@@segaspice4062 Ok
@@segaspice4062 We need unleashed ranking system. SA2 is difficult to the point of not being fun. Having atleast a little leg room feels nice instead of needing to be literally frame perfect
@@trymetrix857 i played unleashed for all s ranks and i can say that is a straight up lie, sa2 requires you to be good and unleashed requires you to be a freaking god, i literally loose s ranks on unleashed by being hit once in the stage!
@@ElenStar3343 Facts
4:52 Episode Shadow actually had a difficult ranking system which required you to be perfect at the levels in order to get it. Getting the S rank in Virtual Reality was insanely fun and challenging. Kinda wish the whole game was like that :|
I love how in Unleashed if you get an E rank the music starts to go out of tune and Sonic gets depressed
But exoparagramgamer said that s ranking Xbox 360 and ps3 version the chunan dlc is utter torment.
In my personal opinion, the individual value of each rank is as follows:
E rank: Pathetic.
D rank: Needs improvement.
C rank: Well done. You tried.
B rank: Good, but not great.
A rank: Great job.
S rank: Perfection!
Important video! And yes I hard agree, S ranks are very important as an indicator that you have properly experienced all there is to experience, in terms of all the design choices the developers prepared for players. Aspects like not getting hit, not being too slow, killing enough enemies, not hitting civilians (Black knight) and more of each level section!! Btw I think Black knight has a fantastic ranking system if you want to check deeper into that! It has an honorable knight parameter where you don't attack the backs of enemies, and dont harm civilians, and ofc giving rings to civilians and such
The rank system in Sonic Generations 3DS is different, and it is challenging
You didn't metion it, but Sonic Advance 3 have one of the best ranking systems too, it only requires speed, but you REALLY need to know the levels and master it to be the fastest and get all the shortcuts, and learn to use the characters in the best way
One of the reasons why I loved Generations on the 3DS so much was because of the ranking system. Those S Ranks meant something
Advance 3 ALSO makes the team system is super cool and can use your team to beat the level, like sunset hill act 2 or 3 theirs a big wall that covers most of the stage BUT if your knuckles you can climb over it to get an amazing time.
Yeah thats why the 3ds version has a better ranking system
Becuase I went back to emerald coast on the 3ds version I had a B rank I played the lvl and I got an S rank for it was rewarding
@@cowgaming7186 the handheld games are so good and underrated
You love that one cyberspace from frontiers if only more were that strict with the time, currently replaying Generations on PC because of the hype of Sonic X Shadow Generations & no joke it took me 16 minutes to beat Classic Planet Wisp & still somehow got a B.
The most challenging aspect of the entire game so far was the achievement to get through Modern Chemical Plant without ever being submerged in water. It took nearly an hour of attempts, but once I got it, it felt amazing. For replayability & longevity, I hope they add fun achievements in the stages in future games.
I agree with you. I'm not that hardcore player that always 100% everything and I actually only did this on Riders, Zero Gravity and Adventure DX (from Sonic games), so you might think I'd want to get best ranks just by playing the game, but it honestly feels so bad to get good ranks after being objectively bad. I remember how I sucked at some stage in Forces (I do not remember the details) and almost got offended when I got best rank possible for it, lol
At the same time I'd like to point out that the feeling when I struggled with something in these games as a child just to get the worst rank possible is horrible (I freaking sucked at Heroes 😢)
sonic unleashed ranking system was the best imo out of the whole series u feel so accomplished when u get an s rank u gotta know the level in and out to get it
I feel like you were on the losing side of the debate (Sorry), but this was one of your best arguments/points in that debate:
"Sonic Colors you have the option just complete it fast and get a shit rank and have the ego of 'hey, I got a fast time' *or* you can have the ego of 'hey, I beat this level and I mastered it with all the level gimmicks and all the wisps.' You can do that. You can have all sides. Sonic Generations only has one side, and that is time. Sonic Colors has everything."
And unrelated to that, a ranking mod for SA1 would be interesting. (If there isn't one already)
Enjoyed the video, Matt.
In sonic unleashed years ago when i was a kid i beated eggmanland fater 3 HOURS with barely any score and lots of death in the end i got an E rank and even tho i should have been pissed hearing the werehog screaming and the music becoming weird ended up making me laugh
an turn for the best i guess
In Generations and Forces it was an issue anyway. They just handed out S ranks there. You know there's a problem when you have to try really hard to get a B rank or lower. Great video!
I’ve only recently started to care about S ranks recently and it really helps prolong the games playtime. I’ve put over 30 hours on Sonic Colors trying to complete everything
I recently started replaying generations after all this time. I was surprised I was making so much mistakes, taking things slow and safe, and still getting S rank. The only way I'd get a lower rank was if I died trying to get a tricky red ring on my first try. It's really forgiving and easy to get an S rank, while colors (the original, haven't played the new one) I remember it being at least somewhat hard to get S ranks.
I totally agree with you, a ranking system should be hard to master.
Tbf sonic forces ranking system wasn't that bad. The game was just so easy that u were guaranteed an s rank. If u have 0 rings at the end of the stage you won't get the s rank, it's just that the game is so easy that u won't actually have the challenge of not losing ur rings.
Perfectly said
Basically, the problem is not the rank system, the problem is the game lol
uh no
the video game’s design is structured partly by the ranking system. if it’s the game’s problem,, then it is the fault of the ranking system by default
Maybe with the tails save, they could make it to where if you use it, your score lowers, meaning you get a worse rank than what you would if you beat it without using the tails save. I think that would keep some of the challenge with getting S ranks in colors ultimate.
Soniv unleashed for the PS2 has it ridiculously hard. Like, eggmanland has it for 4 and half minutes to get an s. I'd suggest to anyone to see clips for it.
The main issue I see with Sonic Adventure 2's ranking system is that you have to know what you've gotta go out of your way to do, and it's a lot more cryptic feeling than how Sonic Colors handled that. If you haven't memorized where certain things are, you're basically stuck no matter how hard you play the level... and Metal Harbor is actually a good example of what looks like bad ranking design, with the short tunnel section with absurd bonuses that could significantly boost your rank if you A) get lucky or B) have somehow memorized the movements you need to make in this incredibly slippery section.
I just like getting better times on my runs. Like getting the minus times is super satisfying in generations. And getting the A ranks in adventure 1 is also fun then improving that time still bring me back to that game.
Um, adventure 1 doesnt have a ranking system, it debuted in adventure 2
In sonic frontiers cyberspace, all u need is speed
It's so terrible in forces that I s ranked all stages by just beating them without dying
I'm gunna defend generations because of its large priority of best times I feel like generations instead of striving for the S-Rank wants you to improve upon your time
Getting an S rank in Unleashed is satisfying, getting one in Generations is not.
Been loving the recent videos a lot!
The Sonic Rush trilogy had good ranking systems too, don't forget those. Those really pushed me to my limits and forced me to get good lol. In the case of 1 and Rush Adventure, it was all about doing tons of tricks, blazing through the level, and getting tons of rings, and if you don't do one of those well enough, you get an A Rank instead. In the case of Colors DS, you mainly get S Ranks by clearing the stages fast, but you WILL NOT get an S Rank on your first go. It was all about using the Wisps to your advantage, and using those to go faster. I also thought Episode Shadow had a good ranking system, Virtual Reality is infamous for the VERY strict S Rank requirement
Damn I always thought that I was the only to get mad at the forces and gens super easy S ranks
Sometimes getting the strategies and training the level can be pretty frustrating, but when you se the shining S (or pink/red A) the satisfaction is great, then you see that wasn't that hard to get it, and now you're not just better at the game but you feel that
Oh, and nice video :^)
Really good topic to discuss. I really liked the ranking system of every Sonic game up until Generations. It actually feels like it was going to have a better one but at the last second they toned it down. Even Generations 3DS has a better one.
7:11 My name is Evan so I jumped out of my skin when Matt aggressively said my name lmao
If they do the ranking to be like SA2 or Unleashed, they better add in the E rank.
And the funny Erank music
Maybe someone else has mentioned it, but the ranking system actually started in SA1, sure they were called "levels" but it was effective the same thing
Sonic colours ranking is actually sick with difficulty to get an S rank
adventure 2 and unleashed had the best ranking system in my opinion. they really push the players to play better
I personally am OK with harsh ranking systems, but I prefer it to either be points or time. Not both. I need it to be measurable. I need to be able to understand my progress.
Unleashed ranking was brutal but it did drive me to play stages more.
Generations S ranks are definitely more difficult in the extra missions, though. They aren't that easy there, you will struggle for those S ranks
I definitely agree with you, but I also think there should be a slightly better balance. I think Sega is trying to make the S ranks super easy so everyone can enjoy getting them, because other games it was so difficult. But the way it is now makes ranks pointless.
I would prefer things closer to the level of sa2, but maybe just a tad less difficult. I don’t want to take the challenge away from the people who love perfecting and completing the most difficult challenges, but it would be nice if I didn’t have to be a god at the game to get the highest rank also.
The funny thing is despite that, the easy S ranks in Generations is one of the least annoying issues I have with the game. While I do like Generations, there are so many things that make it a frustrating experience. But I’m not gonna get into that.
This is exactly why I like the fact that Colors is getting remastered. That game had the best ranking system of the boost games in my opinion. We haven't had a good ranking system like that since the Adventure days. (I could be wrong tho.)
I would like to see the ranking system from sonic unwiished came back,it is just like crash 4.
Why can't it be like unwiished, sonic is after all, all about speed
The ranking system is very important but also very underrated of its effects
I'm currently grinding for A ranks in Sonic Heroes. You forgot to mention that Heroes also has something special for getting every A rank: Super Hard Mode.
metal harbor was so hard to get an s rank but it was so satisfying to pull it off and i am still running one the pure happiness of A ranking it
I liked sonic rush's ranking system. You had to earn a certain amount of points to get an S. Just being fast isn't enough, you have to do tricks, defeat enemies and be stylish overall kinda like SA2's but a little toned down. I don't consider that a bad thing though
I can end the Black Knight debate: It's good. there :)
There is one thing Sonic Forces doesn't get enough credits personally. You said that Sonic can do like the relics in Crash Bandicoot, and make you have to complete the stage super fast. Well, while Sonic Forces has pretty easy S ranks, the time trial missions are exactly that. They make you complete the stage as fast as possible, and beat the time. And even as soon as Ghost Town, those missions are very hard in my opinion. You need to perfect your run, and not lose time. Of course not every stages have those missions, while every stages have a S rank, but at least there is some mastery of the stage required in the game, and is in my opinion the best part about Sonic Forces.
The first Sonic Adventure had a basic ranking system as well. It took the form of Ranked Missions. So in order to get the A Rank, you had to first complete B Rank run, and to get access to that, you’d need to complete the C Rank mission. Generally, they were the same stage, but with a stricter time limit or score requirement. SA2 also had a similar mission structure with the Mystic Medley missions for example, requiring five different runs through each stage.
That's not really a ranking system, though. It's not rating your performance, but giving you alternate objectives.
@@Tom-jw7ii it was essentially the prototypical ranking system, and what would eventually evolve into a proper ranking system. It was certainly not a true ranking system. I agree.
@@Red7Ent Maybe you could consider it a predecessor, but it really shares no similarities with a ranking system except for the lettering. Also considering that the system still exists in SA2 along with a separate ranking system, I think it's safe to say they're completely different things.
@@Tom-jw7ii I see it as the team experimenting with ways of challenging the player, and implementing it again in SA2 to provide different missions (SA1 was generally just increased difficulty challenges as opposed to the variety in SA2 like Mystic Medley for example). I think they weren’t sure which they wanted to settle with, so they tried both in SA2. Personally, I see the ranking system and the mission stages as two separate evolutions of the same idea. Over time, the two became more and more distinct from one another, and now we have things like Red Rings and other in-stage objectives that are the modern evolution of the mission based system in SA2 whereas the ranking system we still have today has largely gone unchanged since SA2, but again, I see both as an evolution of the one in SA1.
"If everyone's S Rank, no one will be"
-Tsun Zu
I think for the ranking system it should be fairly easy to get a B rank, but for A and S you gotta do quite the challenge. If it's too hard it might be discouraging for some players. Imagine playing and feel you did well, but the rank said D or E 😅😅
I just wish Forces have you a REASON to replay levels.
SA2 has Green Hill and Generations has cool unlockables. Forces has no collectibles.
SA2 did the ranking correctly, you had to grind for the A and it felt damn good to see it!
I also think the rush series does these pretty well
What pisses me off with unleashed's ranking system is that the game doesn't reward you for getting all S ranks while getting them is extremely hard. If there was a reward then there wouldn't be any complaints imo.
300th Also I would like to see a video where you beat sonic with your feet. No hands. That would make for interesting content. How would it go. It must be an easy Sonic game but not too easy. A game that is mostly casual.
If you beat it try harder Sonic games.
I think generations’ ranking system was perfectly fine, but unleashed (HD), SA2, heroes & colours definitely had better ranking systems though.
Also sonic games replay-ability wise are more than just their ranking systems & generations’ is no exception cause it still has great replay value in the form of the hard mode bosses, extra missions, the Red star rings for unlockables etc.
I loved A ranks in Sonic Heroes because It feels like a huge achievement like I just finished a 1000 Piece Lego set or something
well, also in SA2, you can guarantee an A Rank if you get all the rings in that stage. But Idk if that means you fully mastered that stage
“Mmm yes this will age well.”
The problem with a hard ranking system is that it will make casuals feel like they suck
Unleashed Ranking on the Wii I like it a lot and uses the emblems for something more optional. There, the higher the rank, the more emblems you get. The more emblems you get, the more side stuff (cinematics, music, concept art, lives, etc.).
How do you get an S rank there?
Day stages: Reach the goal under X minutes
Night stages: Number of enemies killed required, reach the goal under x minutes, and collect X quantity of rings
You'd think it sounds simple, but it is a better way and a simple way to make the rankings, and also hard. Believe me, getting the S ranks in the day stages requires you to know the level perfectly and making almost no mistakes.
Wait, wasn’t the ranking system present in Sonic Adventure 1?
Shouldn’t that be considered as the first Sonic game to introduce the ranking system instead of Sonic Adventure 2?
No, there was no ranking system in Sa1. There was a challenge mode though.
And just like that, Matt started another war in the community.
Have you played Spark the electric jester 2? It has the best Sonic Ranking system by far. Especially if you play on the hardest difficulty.
2:48 what’s wrong with the rocket
He's mean :(
@@Matthasnocuts oh nuu
When the sonic is blue:
I still feel the pain from Lost World’s Time Attack Rankings. Those were just cruel.
And I guess to give Forces SOME credit, getting S Ranks did reward you with more Avatar items. But then again, it’s easy as pie lol.
You make a good point.
I agree that the raking system is kinda bad these days and I would love it if they make it better but i still think that it is one of the last things that Sega had to focus on (because they have a lot to fix in the games)
I'd they ever remake/remaster Unleashed, maybe have getting an S-Rank open up the challenge stages for that level, out give your bonus sun and moon medals, or some new medal altogether, all of which can only be used to purchase stuff like cosmetics or remixed songs, and things of that nature.
The only problem I have with Adventure 2's ranking system is the fact you can get an A rank automatically by collecting every ring in a stage. Granted, in a lot of stages, that's probably down right impossible. But the fact that it's there is an issue. Generations is far too easy S rank, granted. I like the idea of having to complete the stage without dying to get it, if you do the best you'll get is an A rank. That's a good part of it. But it lacks the difficult of Adventure 2's ranking system
I think we should go b ack to A ranks like SA1-SA2. But I do agree with everything in this video. (Getting a S rank in generations is hard in my opinion.)
While I agree that the ranking system in Generations sucks, I think it's worth noting that the Doppelganger races, which are available for every level in the game as a side mission, have much stricter S rank requirements which I think make up for the trivially easy S ranks on the regular stages
Good point
9:13 TOOT TOOT SONIC WARRIOR!!!! 😱🥰
Should be pointed out that Sonic Generations is a much shorter game than Sonic Colors. It is very possible to get S ranks your first time in some of the stages in Sonic Colors and Unleashed, especially the early stages. But Sonic Generations doesn’t have very far to push the difficult level because it’s so short
They made the ranking systems easier in future Sonic titles. SA2 ranking system had a perfect balance when it comes to increasing points same applies to Sonic Heroes. The last Sonic game with good ranking System is Sonic Colors.
Lives + Old ranking system as a hardmode would give older fans what they want and still appeal to the younger fans or casuals who aren't as good at the game.
What are your thoughts on the Sonic Lost World (3DS) ranking system?
Generations Ranking don’t even bother me anymore cause there’s a mission in a every zine of the game which is about chasing a ghost opponent of Sonic and the S ranks for those missions are actually somewhat of challenging.
I remeber when i would grind out metal harbour for a ranks but would always get a c until i realised the top path on the rocket and got an a sa2 ranking sytstem not all about speed but it is so hard but so rewarding.
there should have atleast have the S Rank to make it challenging and give a reward not only for satisfaction but also shows the skills you have played and some type of extra to add to it
the redeeming quality of Forces' ranking system is that it counts how many times you die, making it automatically a great ranking system, too bad it was in a linear short game.
And that was it for the goods of recent Sonic ranking systems.
Others, especially the generations one, is really terrible.
I A ranked heroes recently and it was actually quite challenging I hope it goes back to that
Are you intrinsically motivated to achieve mastery, or do you need a carrot to coax you into having fun?
A question for every gamer to think about.
It’s as simple as just having a goal to shoot for. If the game doesn’t care if the player is good at it, then the player most likely won’t either.
imo s-ranking forces was really fun even for its level design, minus the daily bonuses
This video is so right.
I don’t know about this issue but what about the issue with Mama Robotnik?
Honestly All I want in a Sonic Game is good gameplay with replability and a good story, but I don't mind the challenge of the ranking system like Unleashed or even 06 at mind.
I agree with everything you said, except for Colors. The game itself is fine and all, but the ranking system is one of my least favorites. The reason for that is simply because of the wisps. Even if the ranking system in Colors is based on skill, I wouldn’t know that because I’ve perfected many of the levels and I would still get an A or B. The reason for that is because I’d always ignore the wisps, which, for me anyway, were huge pace breakers. However, they were crucial for getting S ranks because of the amount of points they gave. So essentially, they wanted you to speed through the stages with minimal error while also stopping your progress by forcing you to screw around as a wisp to get a lot more points. And that killed it for me.
About S Ranks on Generations
I dunno, i liked them, i think the fact that you get an Rank worse than S in that game kinda makes you feel pathetic for losing an easy challenge.
Talking about challenges, i think some S Rank challenges of Generations were way more satisfying than the Level ones.
oh, also, try to get an S rank on Episode Shadow's levels easily. Those are absolutely not easy, despite most of forces S ranks being simple, I definitely think people sleep on Episode Shadow
*whistle* THAT WAS TIGHT
Man said colors when that one literally is super easy to get an S with wisps