Election and Predestination l Voddie Baucham
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มี.ค. 2023
- Understanding the doctrine of Predestination and Election is essential to the presentation of the Gospel. In this sermon, Dr. Voddie Baucham presents, defends, and applies this biblical doctrine. In this systematic exposition concerning the election and predestination of Jacob, Dr. Baucham also walks us through the importance of confessions and creeds to define what we mean when we refer to belief in Jesus and the Bible.
Election and Predestination l Voddie Baucham
Genesis 25:19-26
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So grateful for these uplifting and intellectual and truthful videos...
they are really helping me right now. God bless all the people who make this channel happen 🙏✝️🕊️
Praise God. Thanks for listening.
Lord I thank you from the depths of my heart. Bless your servants who serve as vessels for your Words to refresh our thirsty souls. Thank you Jesus 🙏
Thanks to pastor voddie for his time and his sermon GOD bless you pastor
You need to wake up and find Jesus… There’s no truth to election and predestination that is a demonstrate from the devil… Mohammed believes in predestination
Jesus says anyone who is thirsty may come… It’s also in revelation chapter 22 verse 17 through 18
Once you’re thirsty, and start seeking, then God draws you these demons do itching years preaching they will pay a high penalty when they face Christ for their garbage
To God be the glory for my salvation, sanctification, and glorification! Thank you Lord for choosing me before the foundations of the world!
I listen to Voddie everyday at work. He does a great job explaining the word in content. I'm a firm believer that you can't get all your substance from just one preacher. So I include Dr. Bauchan in my daily spiritual food. God bless you sir! Keep serving Yeshua.
Thanks for listening
Im a truck driver an i also listen to sermons all day i have actually listened to all of john McArthur seroman in less than 2 years now i have moved on to Voddie and paul washer sermons i mix them up now but yea 60+ years of theology cramed into my head in less than 2 years. And everyday i cry many times a day. Rideing around town listening to the gospel for 10+ hours a day. And i know i still have a long way to go and i try my best not sin. But man is it hard and i know its not works plus jesus christ. But jesus christ alone !!! But i tell you what i look forward to the day i never sin again. But the only way that will happen is by dieing. And another thing if jesus told me I had to stand in one spot for all eternity. I would do it with a smile on my face. You know why because i would be where jesus christ is. Heaven is just a by product. I dont care about that Heaven would be hell if jesus wasn't there. Every one wants to go to heaven but most dont want jesus christ there. How sad
Love ❤
Unfortunately, he is not serving Yahweh
@@nakasinkiwanukahow so?
I knew I was one of the elect since I was 10 years old, at 25 it was confirmed. The next 30 years I acted 10 feet tall and bullet proof. Living as a praying pagan until God grabbed my attention in the most compelling of ways. I humble seek God's will for me now with reverence and awe. I love you Jesus.
Your testimony is great evidence toward the truth, that the Calvinist teaching of the idea of the doctrine of election is horrible and leads people away from God. You were one of the fortunate ones to find your way back to right standing with God. How many thousands of others though have not been that fortunate and because of Calvinism have fallen away from God? Terrible.
Thanks for listening
How did he grab it?
Alrighty then Jacob
Sounds about right
This made me so happy and relieved. Because this just smashes the Lose your salvation thing. I know we’re not saved by works but I’m always worrying that I’m not doing enough and it’s so late in the game God probably won’t use me. But I’m definitely saved and seeking God daily to the point of obsession lately 😆 So I want to cry knowing I was chosen ! I’ve never been chosen for anything before. No even affection of my own parents or brothers. 🙌🙌🙏
Thanks for listening
There would bo no warnings in the entire Bible about endure to the end.How about i will not erase his name from the book of life?😊
My very best friend at work proved to me this doctrine. She is the kindest, sweetest person, has been through trials the God pulled her out of, yet she tells me she just "doesn't get the whole God-thing". I told her that I understood and that not everyone was chosen "to get it"...all I knew is that I understood that God chose me before I was even born because He has plucked me out of many instances where I should have died...it is hard to explain to people, but the fact that have felt this way for so many years tells me this doctrine is true! I still pray for my friend and love her...
I'm addicted to this series. I'm reading through Genesis now and each week my heart leaps up when I see these little light blue and white thumbnails pop up in my feed.
God bless this ministry.
❤
It's an excellent series.
I wish I would have heard this message at 18 years old when I was experiencing religious abuse. Thank you.
I just wanna jump up and holler, “Preach it Brother!!” The anointing of God is all over Brother Voddie! I needed this message, the Church needs to hear this message. Hallelujah
Thanks for listening
Profoundly said, to God be the glory.
Prasie God. Soli Deo Gloria.
Amen Amen ~ Glory be to God ~ Holy Spirit grow us in Your wisdom, conform us to You, Jesus.
Soli Deo Gloria
Amen amen (as spoken by the Lord to Nicodemus - Jn.3:3.) The Lord would have you know that it does not work that way you think. And that is why you are still in your sins. For one, you have to conform to the Image of the Son who is Mashiah. This is what we have been predestined to by Abba Patyr' (Whom you do not know) - Eph.1:5,11.Rom.8:28-30.12:2.
And that by being no longer conformed to the image of the world by the bond of sin. (Rom.12:1,2.) It is that introduction to the Heavenly Father that transforms you by the Word He writes on your heart making it new. (Ezek.11:19.18:31.36:26.) Your new heart goes with your new Spirit that is of Christ. (Rom.8:9.) But Abba Patyr' cannot write on your heart as long as you have a will to sin. That means to Him you have no fear of the Lord. He changes your fear to love! (agap(e)ytos!)
You have to come to know that without fulfilling righteousness by seeking the kingdom of God (Christ in you) he will never reveal Abba Patyr' to you. (Matt.11:27-30.) Growing in Wisdom is something we do as children if we have that covering in parents. Otherwise Wisdom (the Lord calls her Sofia) is not given until the Patyr' is revealed by His Spirit He calls Ruach. (Zech.4:6.)
That is when Wisdom is given liberally in the secret place who admitted you into the Royal Priesthood Household of the Almighty. (Ps.91:1,15.) That is when you call Wisdom sister (Prov.74.) and she gives you the Double secrets of Wisdom. (mishnah tal-alluman Chakmah) Abba atyr' calls her Chakmah. She brings Understanding with her to give you clarity. Your teaches have no clue!
He says why die in your sins? Repent now before it is too late!
I love when he reminds us we deserve death 😂 I really enjoy how he exclaims all of us deserve hell ❤ BUT GOD his Grace and Mercy!
Praise God for His Grace and Mercy
Me too! When he says "you are a wretched sinner"!! Phew! i am sooo glad i now know in sincerity the price paid for me and the mercy and grace given; it is overwhelming and my mind cannot wholly process it... such love is beyond this fleeting body of dust, soul and mind of mine to process in its entirety🙏
This is fabulous!! 6 years ago i came to the doctrines of grace after 20 years in free will baptist, once my thinking started align with God only then did i begin a true walk in sanctification.
This is exactly what the Christian world needs to hear. God bless you Dr. Voddie Baucham and your family as well your ministry ✝️👑🛐🕊❤
Thank you for broadcasting these these gold valued sermons 🙏❤️
Thanks for listening
Such a profound message. God bless Voddie, and may He keep him. ❤
Praise God for His word
This is literally where I have to go to get spiritual guidance from cause walking into these buildings that don’t have the truth will cause you to just listen at home. Consistently ❤
Thanks for listening
Yes we can understand predestination and election... Predestinated to adoption... Elected for service... Neither regress to Salvation...
Election was explained the best I’ve ever heard. Thanks tonDr. Bauchum for breaking down parts that I had a hard time understanding.
Yes, I'm always concerned about people I love that are muslim, I can just show them Jesus's love and pray that some are God's chosen and He will call them.
Thanks for listening
Me too. God be praised my brother as we learn and apply that we may be drawn closer by the hoot spirit n let us keep Pastor Baucham constantly in our prayers.
Roman 6:16-17 states. "You are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads you to death, or of obedience to teaching, which leads you to righteousness." And 1 John 3:8-9 states, "Whoever sins belongs to the Devil. No one, who is begotten by God, commits sin." Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, please examine yourselves sincerely and determine which category you belong to. Many of you believe some verses in the Bible, think they know and follow Christ, and are saved; and find themselves to be in the first one. Why? Because they do not truly know Christ, nor the True Faith, and are separated from the Source of Grace like branches separated from the Vine (John 15:6).
St. Paul said in 1 Cor 9:27, "I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, after I have preached to others, I myself should become a reprobate." St. Paul, an Apostle, was concerned about the possibility of losing his salvation, thus proving that 'Once Saved, Always Saved', 'Faith alone", or 'Predestined" is a complete lie, and that the salvation requires a great efforts on our part to truly live according to Our Lord's Commandments of Love and observing All He commanded as taught by His One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church (Matt 28:20), so that we may be transformed into the True Image and Likeness of Christ (Rom 8:29, 2 Cor 3:18); because, we are judged, not by Faith, but according to our deeds and works (Rev 20:13, 22:12. Matt 25:31-46).
Our Lord said, "Sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven (Matt 12:31-32, Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10)." Do not be shocked, but you all, who follow false teachings of protestant churches, have sins against the Holy Spirit, who always remains with, and guide the Catholic Church (John 14:16-17, 16:13), by rejecting the Catholic Church teachings. Why remain outside the Catholic Church, Our Lord's Only Fold (John 10:16), His Body and Bride whom He saves (Eph 5:23), and risk your eternal salvation? Come to His Sheepfold quickly, like the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), before it is too late. Amen!
Our election is in Christ. it's not us individually.
What you teach me Mr. Voddie...this is exactly how I got saved..I'm so humbled because at first I thought it was something in me to say yes to Jesus..
Thanks for listening
God bless Voddie. What a gifted teacher of the word.
Thanks for listening
The doctrine of Calvinism is putting people in danger of hell fire. Be on guard because the enemy roams around like a roaring lion seeking whom to devour.
Thanks for listening
This seems to be a very hyperbolic statement.
false teachers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember God warned us. predistination could be why many have fallen away they will have to anser to that.
Read Romans 9
@@nathanfreeman8250 Please see "why romans 9 doesn't support calvinism" by Joel Korytko
Before this video i listened to R.C. Sprawls.. the Sovereignty of GOD. Paul Washer, Voddie and more have listened to him. How God has taught him to preach..PRAISE GOD..
Praise the Lord! I look at the book of Revelations, especially heavenly worship, and I don't see the angels and all hosts falling down before any man in worship and adoration. What we see instead are all the Hosts of Heaven worshiping The Father who sits on the throne and the Lamb of God our Lord and Saviour, that it may be shown that Glory belongs to God alone for our Salvation.
The lord giveth and the lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the lord
To God be the Glory
That was said by Job. Not much was known about Satan then. The devil comes to steal, kill and destroy. Jesus has come that we might have life and have it more abundantly.
What I learned from this teaching is that we
"MUST PRAY FOR THE SALVATION OF OUR LOVED ONES"
And believe that they will be saved through the
"PRESCIENT VIEW"
That Dr. Baucham is teaching.
I always start with asking the Holy Spirit to give me understanding & wisdom & block any outside (worldly) thoughts/problems or NOISES that satan tries to use to interfere. THAT DIAPER in a VIPER HAD ME stopping midway for....on- my-knees reinforcement🤔🤗 but I'll be back because Voddie is my last resort. I saved him for last on purpose this time. Ive listened to several already on this topic. I can't believe I'm having such trouble with this one. But, I KNOW IN MY ❤, if Voddie doesn't make me understand, NO ONE CAN. He just has that GIFT☝
Thanks for Listening!
Amen and praise God! How humbled and thankful that I am chosen. God is so merciful!
As for me, I will trust in the Lord.
Thank you, God.
Thank you, Rev Baucham.
J W
Soli Deo Gloria
What an amazing sermon on such a foundational Christian doctrine. Even that kid babbling in the background agrees. Thank you Voddie for preaching the word of God. We need more pastors and leaders like you in the corporate body of Christ.
My God... just profound.... I pray this does not go to my head and that I may celebrate and stay faithful and humble.
I can tell you that you can...I finally came to the election Calvin's view when I looked at the attributes of God...the first thing I did when the Holy spirit showed me the truth ..I just fell to my knees...everyday I'm in awe and since we have no idea who will be saved it makes us want to proclaim the gospel even more...
Predestination, the best way to undermine our most loving, gracious God. Only a devil would create a being only to condemn them
Thanks for listening
@@gfbc1689 oh, I only opened your worthless video to make a comment. I guard my mind from hearing error
Some are vessels of wrath others vessels of grace we are but clay
Definition of Grace: "the act of giving acceptance unconditionally and voluntarily to an undeserving person by an unobligated giver."
Freewillers say that God is merciful/gracious and just but then say that it's evil for God to choose to save certain people and condemn the rest to the lake of fire. So we're deserving of forgiveness now, deserving of grace? God is obligated to forgive us? That isn't grace then, nobody deserves heaven, only the lake of fire for their sins. You may say that it's evil for God to condemn someone for a crime He created them to commit, but then is God the Truth, the ultimate standard by which all goodness is derived or not? If God is the Truth then His decisions are always true and just, if God choosing people for heaven and hell makes Him evil then God is NOT the truth and is subject to some law or authority outside of Himself, namely yourself, amongst all those who cast this charge against Him, as you seem to want to judge God for His actions. God's justified in punishing our sins whether there's freewill or not. I've seen no predestinarian ever call God evil, wicked, or a devil for not conforming to their preconceived notion of what He should do and be, nor refuse to worship Him if there was freewill (for you it would be "if there was predestination") but that's just Tuesday in the freewill camp. God is the POTTER we are the CLAY, it's not a scripture problem but a problem of pride and humanism. When an Anti-Theist says "How could a loving God send people to hell" or "How could a loving God let all this evil happen" the free willer, perhaps unknowingly, agrees with the Anti-Theist that God could not do such a thing, if He so chose, apart from our actions and yet God created the world knowing that all these things would happen, His omniscience, remember? "Predestination" or not, these things were known about by God and He still created the world knowing that evil was going to thrive in it, so we can call God a devil and join hands with the Anti-Theists or submit to God's authority to do as He pleases. Nothing here is being undermined but your preconceived notion of what God can and cannot do with His creation, thankfully God has given us grace, grace we aren't deserving of, by His will when we were *dead* in trespasses and sins, incapable of knowing God He gave us eyes to see and ears to hear and granted us repentance unto the acknowledgement of the truth. I'm no calvinist but I do acknowledge God's grace as grace and you should to my friend.
th-cam.com/video/qSEsqvLamfg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=eUj5fpr17IGJ780I
Thank you for explaining this truth so clearly. I learned so much! I had so many things wrong. This is why it’s important to have solid doctrinal exposition of scripture. May God bless this ministry.
If we had contributed anything, it would take away from God's glory and grace. ❤ . We are all unprofitable servants. To God be the Glorcy. . Thank you, God, Lord Jesus, and Holy Spirit. For the spirit of regeneration, faith, and forgiveness ❤.
How profound this sermon is! Thank you Pastor Baucham for this incredible thought provoking sermon!
God's blessings to all who serve Him 🙏
The Lord doesn’t want me wasting the time it’s gonna take to see is this about predestination that you are predestined before you were born?
Voddie, you are matched by no other in your preaching of God's Written Word. I praise God for using you like he does.
Amen Amen! So happy i heard this message.i will happily listen to it again and again
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. For who so ever believe, shall not perish but have Everlasting life....
Amen. Thanks for listening
yes for WHOSOEVER :D
Whosoever that God draws to believe on Christ u can’t cherry pick scripture and run with one Bible verse the Bible must be read and declared in totality.
@@ThemantleofElijah
And you can’t add words to the text to make it say something it doesn’t say.
@@Slavelife9279 in what way was I saying or doing that, we clearly see in scripture even from the mouth of Jesus and Paul the theme of scripture is clear that God draws us and he draws the elect and there predestined by him this false teaching of man choosing God is heresy and scripture is used out of context all the time to support the heresy that man chooses God. The whole world is not the whole world of every sinners whenever they want to come to God l, but those who so ever believes. Guess what they won’t believe except God draws them and gifts to them the ability to believe which is faith, God only calls and draws the elect and he predestined the elect. How about you don’t make scripture say what it doesn’t say
Can I just take a minute or a few to praise God?!
Father You're all together wonderful, You're amazing!!! Thank you ❤
😢 I have been beating myself up asking our Father if my son would make it. I felt a chain break 🙌🏾
"The only thing I brought to the party was the sin that needed forgiving"
I cry now, everytime I think of how close I was to eternal damnation, or so I thought, and the humbling experience I had around Easter 2022 while studying Roman's, after hearing your Revolution series. So much to say, but now isn't the time or place. I just wanted to say, I'm so grateful for every opportunity to learn more of the Word
Ty for your service work.
Soli Deo Gloria
Unfortunately, Voddie is right, but he’s wrong. the implication of this quote is right that we don’t bring anything of value to our salvation, but he’s wrong that all we bring is our sin. Very importantly, we also bring our responsibility, given to us by God, to surrender to God and repent of our sins. Leaving that out causes people to fall into the heresy of Calvinism.
@@gfbc1689 amen
To God be the Glory forever and ever. Amen!❤
Roman 6:16-17 states. "You are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads you to death, or of obedience to teaching, which leads you to righteousness." And 1 John 3:8-9 states, "Whoever sins belongs to the Devil. No one, who is begotten by God, commits sin." Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, please examine yourselves sincerely and determine which category you belong to. Many of you believe some verses in the Bible, think they know and follow Christ, and are saved; and find themselves to be in the first one. Why? Because they do not truly know Christ, nor the True Faith, and are separated from the Source of Grace like branches separated from the Vine (John 15:6).
St. Paul said in 1 Cor 9:27, "I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, after I have preached to others, I myself should become a reprobate." St. Paul, an Apostle, was concerned about the possibility of losing his salvation, thus proving that 'Once Saved, Always Saved', 'Faith alone", or 'Predestined" is a complete lie, and that the salvation requires a great efforts on our part to truly live according to Our Lord's Commandments of Love and observing All He commanded as taught by His One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church (Matt 28:20), so that we may be transformed into the True Image and Likeness of Christ (Rom 8:29, 2 Cor 3:18); because, we are judged, not by Faith, but according to our deeds and works (Rev 20:13, 22:12. Matt 25:31-46).
Our Lord said, "Sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven (Matt 12:31-32, Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10)." Do not be shocked, but you all, who follow false teachings of protestant churches, have sins against the Holy Spirit, who always remains with, and guide the Catholic Church (John 14:16-17, 16:13), by rejecting the Catholic Church teachings. Why remain outside the Catholic Church, Our Lord's Only Fold (John 10:16), His Body and Bride whom He saves (Eph 5:23), and risk your eternal salvation? Come to His Sheepfold quickly, like the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32), before it is too late. Amen!
Thank you a million times Dr Voddie and GFBC; I would have never understood this better if it weren't for you. I also appreciate the last portion of the sermon - giving us wisdom as to how to apply and accept such great truths that are beyond our minds and yet being open and honest that we do not know it all and we will ponder all the days of our lives but that never to be main concern. Grateful.
Thank you for a wonderful message and for your commitment to preach and teach the truth of Gods word. 🙏prayers for you
Soli Deo Gloria
TO those who overcome, all through Revelations, to him who overcomes.
To God be the Glory
And who is it that overcomes? Those who have been born of God!! 1 John 5:4-5
Revelation (the book of) has no "s" on the end of the word. There is no book of RevelationS - it is the Book of Revelation.
Thank you for this important teaching!
Praise God 👏 for His word!!!
Thank God Dr. Voddie Vauchan nice hearing you the Word of God,here in the Philippines,continue preaching if there is an opportunity.God blessh you.
5 pages of notes and not my first rodeo with Reformed Doctrine. So good, So rich! So Grateful!
Amen and Amen..... Sovereignty...
Amen. Thanks for listening
WOW! What a revelation! Made me jump from my seat when he exegeted the texts that supported predestination especially John 3:16. I didn’t think of it that way before and how it harmonised with the utter deadness of man to respond to the gospel unless we are drawn to God..
It says all who call on his name and believe in their heart thay God raised him from the dead and you shall be saved
Who is going to call on His name?
I believe that I am beginning to understand. This is hard, so I will keep doing it until it is no longer hard.
Thank you, Brother Baucham for this sermon.
Great teaching. Thanks for putting this on line.
Thanks for posting this
Our pleasure!
Thank you for believing Brother Voddie. 🙏
Thank You for sharing the message, it has helped so much.
Glad it was helpful!
Brilliant exegesis. 🙏 Thank you again, brother.
Thanks for listening
God is God! Jesus is King of Kings! Lord of Lords! God has created absolutely everything and keeps our world moving.
I'm with you Ms. Q😊
Thanks for listening
Thank you Pastor Voddie for this teaching. I didn't understand some of it completely, but I will pray about it. I ask that God blesses you greatly and continue to bless you, your ministry and your lovely family. The last 10-15 minutes was priceless to me. And that wasn't even part of the teaching, but it is something all Christians should hear.
Thanks for listening
@surrenderdaily333: This might work for you as it's worked very greatly for me: I listen to the teachings over and over and each time I do, what I didn't understand becomes clear and concise. I usually understand all of Pastor Voddie's teachings, such as this one, the first time hearing them because HE is so clear and concise and explains things extraordinarily well. Whenever I re-listen to his teachings, it's because I wanna memorize them as much as possible. Thank you. (Lauren Waters)
Love Love Love Voddie B's Videos! God Bless Him for Preaching the True Word of God!💕 † † †
Thanks for listening!
Absolutely beautiful exposition
Beautiful explosion..❤❤
Thanks for listening
I am grateful and blessed by Voddie's sermons. This one I have way too many questions about and it has me very confused. I appreciate these sermons even when they challenge me!
Thanks for listening
This is not good Bible teaching.
@@nakasinkiwanuka I do have many questions.
How so?
From what I remember of this sermon the same scriptures can be used to explain the non Calvinist point of view.@@TheHillrat4wd
Thank you Dr. B it is very hard.
"You can't foreknow it, unless its been predetermined" 🤯
Thanks for listening
The elect are called to bear fruit . If you’re not bearing fruit you might not be one of the elect . Probably not saved. Wow!!
God pretermines in Christ that we all get saved and follow Him. But we have to agree. He doesn't force us. Because God decided to show more mercy to some does not mean he predestined most people to hell. You had kids believing this?
👼 Amen!.👼..
Amen, Thanks for listening.
Amen!
When God gives us a new spirit/Heart, we are a new creation, therefore we have a strong desire to do the will of God. The person doubting predestination with an attitude of why does it matter if we preach to people if once saved, always saved... is a good indication that, that individual has not been regenerated themselves. You shall know them by their fruits....test yourself!
Thanks for listening
To the person posting these..first off thank you. One request, can you possibly turn the volume up if at all possible?? Thank you Voddie, RC, Washer for bringing the truth
We will look into it
@@gfbc1689 Thank you! And thanks for uploading these. Where I live even the reformed church I was scouting had an Easter egg hunt 👎 so for now TH-cam is my church until I find a home that doesn't celebrate pagan myths and traditions like Santa Claus and Easter eggs.
Thank you. Excellent request!
Oh my! Well done Voddie! This is way better that what J MacArthur had preached about this. Let me tell MacArthurs teaching on this shook me to my core and made me doubt my salvation. I will never listen to his sermons again.
Thanks for listening
Yeah MacArthur misfires sometimes, you gotta use discernment with his sermons
@@DemitheGod412 You got it, @DemitheGod412!
Lol..voddie and MacArthur view it the same..voddie speaks at his seminary all the time..sometimes people are just clueless and need to just listen
Thanks!
Thanks
The elect are chosen to minister to others during the tribulation
I’m sitting here going yes yes yes yes yes! AMEN 🙏🙏🙏 a woulda , coulda, shoulda
🎉😢 yes sir
Thanks for listening
It's tragic that a man of this influence doesn't understand that election for salvation is corporate and not individual. 😢
We respond to the Gospel BECAUSE we are of the elect?
Never considered it that way before.
Much to ponder and pray over.
Thanks and blessings to you.
Thanks and praise be to God most high!
No we respond to the Gospel because we love him & he gave us that choice. Don’t listen to these Calvinist reformers they twist the scriptures alot.
I would recommend that any one who is interested in this topic and wants a very honest un biased look at this I would highly recommend to go check out Mike winger on Calvinist and Arminianism and his videos on predestination he hits it on the nail perfectly I used to be a Calvinist but after listening to him Calvinism stopped making sense and started seeming very highly unlikely every one has just enough faith to believe and when God calls on you then you must answer in repentance if you deny his calling you harden your own heart Calvinism is wrong and so is Armenianism
Jesus predestined all of His children He created to be saved and live forever with Jesus, and only when we choose to reject Jesus, are we condemned. John 3:17
Thanks for listening
I know me. At least enough to know I'm too wicked to have done the most righteous thing in the world myself; choosing Christ. He chose me. And I don't understand why.
Thanks for listening
I have a question. I was raised not to believe in predestination, in fact I didn’t know of this doctrine. I was in a Baptist church all my life. At 19, going into the Bible caused me to have a million questions and seeing the non logic of no predestination. Years later someone shared this doctrine with me and I was over excited, because it all made sense. The question, how do preachers who study and love the Lord and much smarter than me, not see it? It has given me such peace, humbleness and a greater reason to share the good news.
@Cindy Baker Hi there is BIBLICAL predestination and then their is Calvinist predestination which is not Biblical at all.
Predestination is mentioned 4 times in the Bible in 3 separate verses and not once is it referring to salvation.
In each case the passage clearly says WHO is being predestinated and TO WHAT they are being predestinated to.
In all those passages ask your self WHO is being predestined and WHAT are they being predestined to?
*Not once is it an unbeliever.*
*Not once is it predestined to salvation.*
Rom 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, he also did PREDESTINATE {G4309} to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 - Moreover whom he did PREDESTINATE, {G4309} them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Eph 1:5 - Having PREDESTINATED {G4309} us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINED {G4309} according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
BELIEVERS are chosen to be Holy and blameless IN CHRIST, are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS, predestined to be to the praise of His glory and predestined to be conformed to His image
EPHESIANS 1:4 - BELIEVERS chosen to be Holy and Blameless IN CHRIST.
EPHESIANS 1:5 - BELIEVERS
are predestined to be adopted children of God BY JESUS:
EPHESIANS 1:11,12 - BELIEVERS (who first trusted in Christ) are predestined to be the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY:
ROMANS 8:29 - BELIEVERS (those who are in IN CHRIST) are predestined to be CONFORMED TO HIS IMAGE (through sanctification).
The DESTINATION has been determined beforehand and NOT the individuals that go there.
Heaven or hell.
CHOOSE ye this day whom ye will serve.
Predestination is NOT about the salvation of lost people.
It’s about the guaranteed future of SAVED people.
Predestination doesn’t speak to who is saved or not.
Rather, it speaks to the ‘DESTINY’ of those who are ALREADY saved/elect.
It speaks to God’s ENDS for the elect who are ALREADY IN CHRIST THROUGH FAITH (Believers).
It is the BELIEVERS who are the ones who love God, and who are therefore foreknown by Him.
IN CHRIST they possess redemption and the forgiveness of sins by faith.
BELIEVERS are predestined by God.
*It does NOT say that unbelievers are predestined TO BE believers.*
@Aaron Pilkey I'm totally confused......
1. Those adopted are not saved?
2. Those that are predestined, called ... glorified are not saved? Called to what? Called from what?
3. Are not the ones conformed to the image of Christ are those that are saved?
I may kinda/ maybe get where you are coming from.....but
Where does belief/faith come from?
Can man come to Christ without the Holy Spirit -- unto salvation?
Does man save himself???
@@BouncySlim1 Not sure what Bible you’re reading but nowhere in scripture is predestination ever used for an unbeliever.
Please show me 1 passage of scripture where an individual unbeliever is unconditionally elected or chosen or predestined to become a believer before the foundation of the world.
To clarify incase you misread this… you need to satisfy all of the following:
1) The election is for an individual UNBELIEVER not a believer.
2)The election is UNCONDITIONAL.
3)The election is explicitly to SALVATION and not to service or to something else.
4)The election was BEFORE the foundation of the world and not in time.
… no one is saved without believing.
Are claiming to have eternal life prior to believing in Christ?
Wait, you weren’t taught about predestination but going into the Bible caused you to come away with an understanding that predestination was necessary?? What were you reading?? Just go back and read Jesus’ words in the gospels. Fix you right up.
@@TheRomans9Guy Predestined is in scripture.
The Calvinist’s perversion of Biblical predestination is not in scripture.
THANK YOU BROTHER; PREACH THE TRUTH UNTIL YOUR ASSIGNMENT IS COMPLETED
Every message I hear that viper in a diaper back there 😆😆
Dang Voddie you did a better Job the DR Walter Martin on this!!
Thanks for listening
So I’ll preach on the doctrine of election and predestination using my intellect in conjunction with the gospel but say…don’t ask questions on why some are elected or predestined.
1 Timothy 2:4
On one hand Calvinism claims that we are save ONLY by Grace but it must be through FAITH but on the other hand demands works to authenticate that FAITH!.In other words the way for us to judge if someone believed the gospel and is save is by 1st looking at his works to determine if his FAITH is the type of FAITH needed to be save or NOT!.That is works salvation because our salvation is not dependent on how we performed but on the sole redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross who through his payment to God The Father of our debt declares us JUST in God's eyes (we acquire Jesus Christ Justness).
Voddie make this topic very clear. With a good explanation.
Yet, there are always godly and sincere questions that we can made that tells us that he is not completely right.
For example: "Why would God Chose me and not chose my father and mother? Because, according to this truth 'God is good' it would make sense that, since He chose me, he would also chose the people around me. Specially if i live my life according to the scripture to preech the gospel with words and with actions, so the people around me can believe in Christ. So, again, if God chose me, why he would let my most loved ones die without his salvation?"
This contradicts the attribute of "justice" and "goodness" of God. Assuming that God did not chose then, but chose me, only because he fliped a coin, is not a good point. "But it is not your work, Voddie would say". I agree, its not my work, yet, this way of thinking contradicts the attributes of God.
I believe in the election, but i also believe that god chose people based on something. And i believe this 'something' is this: 'Loving the Truth above all the things'. Because Truth is one of the greatests atributes of god. Matter of fact, Christ said He was the Path, the Truth and the Life. Truth is something important for God, thats why i belive that is the reason. And it doesnt mean that we can glory in our love for the truth, because its not even close to what is necessary to go to heaven. That would be only an attribute in which God elected us for salvation. All glory is his
What scripture verse helped you to come to the conclusion that God sees something in us?... like "we want the truth" and then He chooses us. I would like to think that too...but I don't see that in scripture...
@@TMSBLU3 I havent find anything like this in scripture. There is no direct answer for this question because there is no direct text saying this.
Matter of fact, many doctrines dont have. But we can use different ways to look at all the doctrines. Most of the time i use the logical way.
Based on this, what i said in the previous comment is exactly what the logic imply: "Saying that God choose, at random, to save or not save, is contradictory to a specific attribute of God: Equity"
It is wrong to think that god flips a coin and decides whether you go or not to heaven. That is why many people dont even believe in election/predestination.
@@TMSBLU3 Like i said, there is not direct text for this. But Romans 8:29 says something intersting:
" For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."
From this text, we can say that God, before predestine someone, he had to know something about him.
I’m not sure if I’m on board with the predestination stuff in the normal understanding. The only way I can see it is if God has predestined that all should be saved, but it is determined based off our reaction to the gospel. We have free will and decide if we will give our life to Christ and believe on all that he has done or not.
Exactly that's why their names are blotted out of the book of life. Had to be in there in the first place.
My brother, the question wether or not a person is among "the elect" should never come to our minds, because "the elect" is whosoever will, and only God knows who will.
Not wether they are chosen by God for Heaven inspite of their will (oh, they don't have a will) or are they left by God to go on to Hell.
God Bless
Dr. Baucham, I am so glad that the spirit of our Lord put it in you to teach this controversial message. I knew when I 1st listened to you that you were willing to go into deep waters for our King. You are truly a man of God. You do however have a way of saying This wrong to prove That right. Which lead me to write this... (please clarify) When you say that "Foreknow" means that God has seen the future & therefore he knows which of us will choose him?" I hope that's 1 of your Wrong to prove Right, because that is most def incorrect. The word "Foreknow in Greek is "Progenosko" meaning God had an intimate relationship with us (like father & child) before the foundations of the world.. Selah. You did say that "WE don't (can't) choose Christ, that He Choose Us. Which negates the message of God knowing which of us would Choose him. You were correct to say that surrendering
If I may - Pastor Voddie does what I believe is "a play on words". A "play on a conversation or thoughts someone might have". In other words, he's play acting. And yes, while what he's play acting is to show how wrong we all can be at times, Pastor Voddie DOES get to the "right part" about his point. If you have to re-listen to that part, (or other parts in other teachings) do so. I've found that to be of great help. Maybe you will too. As a footnote to Pastor Voddie's play acting, it's totally hilarious at times!
Just to clarify that it's not Dr. Baucham's words when you stated, "You did say that "WE don't (can't) choose Christ, that He Choose Us."
Those are the very words of Jesus that Dr. Baucham is quoting.
John 15:16 NASB1995
[16] You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
I am so thankful for these presentations but why is the volume of the videos so low.
I listen other kinds of videos so I know it's not my phone.
Thanks
Thanks for listening
Are we then saying the disobedience of Adam was stronger than the obedience of Christ.
Who is “we”?
@@gfbc1689 the church
God foreknew what we will decide because He is omniscient God. It is so sad to think that I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and when I die and face God and He will tell me I am not elected to go to heaven but destined to hell.. What happened to 2 Peter 3:9 states, “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
Yea Calvinism is demonic
Exactly. It’s more grey than saying God either controls everything or nothing. We have free will, and He enacts His will as He sees fit.
That's a nice strawman you have there
I'm trying to understand election and pre destination
Can’t speak for others but I am born totally depraved and wretched. God predestined and choose me out of His grace. I can’t resist it. Why? It’s because in my depravity, I will never go to God and choose God’s plan of salvation. There is no reason in human terms for Him to choose me. It humbled me then and bring me back to Him whenever I get derailed. Me and my family, we were called to salvation. We were not only called but being brought into salvation.
“Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”
Romans 8:30 NKJV
Thanks for listening!
A lot of people on these comments want to boast and we have nothing to boast about, as we are but clay and God the Potter who are we to be upset about what the Potter does to us.... people need to understand the concept of luck when it comes to God and also the fact that our free will is yet another thing GIVEN to us by God..
Did God not have the right to bless whom he chooses and curse those he chooses??
Is there a distinction between elect and “for who so ever believes “ shall be saved?
What is bearing the fruit as assurance of salvation? If the fruit is love, kindness, patience,long suffering, perseverance etc., in the result of salvation, so as an elect and knowing your election, why does sin still permeate our being like getting grumpy, angry, frustrated, impatient etc, through life’s journey even though you repent and believe and have received salvation? but yet still even though you hate it, I still do it, but it just happens when a circumstance comes about?
Because the flesh competes with the spirit I think is the simple explanation. I'm a baby in christ so don't go crazy on me if I'm wrong please
Thanks for listening
I was so looking forward to listening but I can’t see the charts or slides. He said it’ll be confusing without them. 🤷🏻♀️ God bless you Brother Voddie, Brother John and your families. ❤
Matter of fact… God bless all of you because someone uploaded this and takes the time to take responsibility of the channel. God bless you and your family as well. ❤
Sorry, we didn't have video recording capabilities at the time. This was back in 2009. It was three years into our church plant.
You are welcome. Please share it with others.
@@gfbc1689 absolutely!😊
@@gfbc1689 No apologies necessary. I understand completely.
How do Calvanists reconcile the many variations of Calvanism that disagree with each other?
I want to say I have a lot of respect for Voddie however I strongly disagree with this doctrine. Without going into a long debate, let me point out some pretty big holes in this message. I don't doubt Voddie's salvation, however this is a dangerous doctrine, and I just want to point out why, and also why I believe this message has quite a bit of contradictions and holes in it. (it's extremely dangerous that he tells people just because they have a desire to follow God that automatically means they are one of the elect, and they don't need to worry. What an awful day when people believe a God given desire to find truth is misinterpreted as being saved, and then these people come to judgement and realize that they believed a lie and had lived in apathy because of a false belief).
#1. Voddie is a leader with a voice and presentation that makes a person sit up and listen. He commands respect in his tone as well as his knowledgeable and presentation style. But don't let that 'feeling' make you believe something that may be false.
Here is an example. Delivering something with factual authority doesn't necessarily make it true. When he read the doctrine statement, it sounded quite legit with all the official words. Quote: 'there is no contradiction between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility". They understand the question this doctrine raises, yet make this statement to somehow appease the question. Yet this question was actually never fully answered except saying, "God is God and does whatever He wills." And that "Grace is Grace because we all deserve death (which is absolutely true) so we should just be thankful that at least God chooses some. That also does not answer the question, and contradicts some of God's attributes. Also, Voddie often uses a somewhat disparaging, mocking tone when referencing the opposite view point, and so it gives the listener the feeling that the viewpoint is ridiculous, when actually it was a very good point, but the way it was voiced creates a feeling that makes you more quickly agree with the speaker because you don't want to be one of those that's he's making fun of. So keep that in mind when listening to his messages, and know your Bible as well.
#2 He kept trying to explain that God's foreknowledge does not equal predestination, which I do not feel he had a strong argument for. Just a lot of powerful deliveries and verses used in the context he wanted them to be. Now, I admit, I do not fully understand Romans 9 and the story of Jacob and Esau etc. however, I also take the verse that says, "Who can know the mind of God?" And how could we ever understand what it is like to have all knowledge, past, present and future, and while at the same time giving man free choice (which I firmly believe in. I still need a good explanation for the why the tree was in the garden if God did not create man with a free will).
We cannot come close to understanding all this, but I do believe somewhere in God's foreknowledge and His choice to give us Free Will through love, that the term predestination falls into that in a way none of us can fully understand. So to quote Voddie, I also choose to believe because God is God! And He says it! (in reference to all the verses that cite that we do have a choice to believe and repent, and that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.)
One of the things Voddie keeps doing when He doesn't fully have an answer. BECAUSE GOD SAID TO DO IT! or BECAUSE GOD IS GOD! Yes, amen, however, the opposing viewpoint can also use this same verbiage for the things they don't understand. So this is a two way street.
#3. If you were to give the Bible to a child and they were to read the gospels in it's entirety, I dare argue none would come out with this viewpoint. Jesus said the kingdom of Heaven is like little children. It's a simple gospel and faith easy to understand. So when it says that something as simple as 1 John 2:2 And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. ("ours" being those already saved, thus 'the elect') Where do you get around the "WHOLE WORLD?"
How about reading the John 3:16. A child would not come to the conclusion that only certain people are able to believe. There are so so many verses that when put together, all come to the same conclusion... it's man's choice. Also, Jesus said that Narrow is the way and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT. A child would fully understand that the person is seeking and finding. (whosoever seeks, will find) They aren't being dragged their by force.
Once again Voddi spoke down of people sharing testimonies and trying to make it sound that if anyone believes they have a choice of their own are taking the credit of their salvation on themselves. This falls flat on it's face, but was delivered with a bit of mockery that makes it feel believable. Yet, in the same message he commands that we repent and believe. Where is the difference? If you are commanded to repent, but you believe God made you repent because you were predestined to repent, than "huh"? What's the message here? Those two do not go together.
Are you doing the repenting or is God forcing you to repent, because he's drawing you so strongly that you have no choice but to repent? We are the ones to be repenting willfully, not being forced to repentance. That wouldn't be repentance, now would it?
#4 The big question, "What is the point of sharing the gospel if God predestines?" He tried to answer this, but once again, under delivered excepting in the way that he presented it. It makes no sense to have a Jesus come simply to save whoever he feels like, ("BECAUSE GOD IS GOD AND DOES WHATEVER HE PLEASES" does not cut it) then command his followers to share his message to the whole world, and be martyred and DIE HORRIBLE DEATHS simply to go out and tell people what they will eventually find out anyway. As Voddie alluded to earlier in His message... the Holy Spirit takes us by force and referenced how God wrestled with Jacob by force! So if God is doing all this by force, I will happily remain in a comfortable life. There is NOTHING my actions can do that would aid in the spreading of the gospel. If I know these people are going to be saved, I honestly could care less when it happens. I'm definitely not willing to die a terrible death to spread a truth that they will for sure come to know at some time.
#5 He brought up a great question about parents holding their precious babies and wrestling with the idea that this sweet child might not be one of the elect. WHAT AN AWFUL FEAR TO HAVE IN YOUR MIND AS A PARENT! How can anyone deal with that, or look at heavenly Father God and believe that He can truly be a God of Love and create this child only to throw into hell without a choice? Voddie's explanation once again... (he couldn't fully answer except to trust God ) and to believe that if there are tribes in other lands with no Bible's that God reaches, why would God put a child in a home that is filled with Bibles and God's elect and not have placed them there if they weren't also the elect? "I like the odds of that." he said.
Well then, what about at the beginning of the message when we talked about Jacob and Esau. They were being born into GOD'S CHOSEN LINEAGE and yet if you interpret these verses as Voddie does, then God created Esau just for destruction. That's not so great of odds, now is it? There are just too many holes in all of this and contradictions when you really listen to the message.
Some final things to consider:
ALL HAVE SINNED and come short of the glory of God. We are "BORN IN SIN" as the Bible states. So, first off, there is absolutely no way possible that a person can live in this earth without sin. We will ALL SIN. The only person that could completely live without sin was Jesus as He as he was perfect. So I agree with Voddie saying that we are accountable for our sin. AMEN. But accountability can only come if we have a choice in our actions. If God created us "He knit me together in my Mother's womb" "Created us in His Image" then He is the responsible one for my existence. He's not responsible for my sin, but He is responsible for creating me and allowing me to be born in a place where I have no chance of being perfect. I had no choice in the matter. So if God is the source of Justice (one of His attributes, then He cannot change the definition of Justice simply because "HE IS GOD AND DOES WHATSOEVER HE WILLS". Justice cannot judge someone for something they had no choice in. I had no choice in my birth. I had no choice in the fact that I cannot live without sin. Those are two facts of life. So if I have no choice in these two things, then how can God call me before his Throne on final judgement day and judge me BY MY WORKS, if there was no other choice out of these works/sins. He made that choice of salvation available to all, and that is why He can then Judge us by our works.
God created us in His image. He put that God desire in our hearts that only He can complete. Look at the world, what is driving every single person on the face of the earth, as well as every religion? It's the desire to fill what sin took away from us.
"God wills that NONE should perish" and that "ALL would come to repentance". "Christ died for ALL". He died so that we all can have hope, but we need to choose to follow. And no, we can't choose without God drawing us, however, He calls everyone at some point in their life. And even if He knows ahead of time if that person will choose to not follow, it is his Sovereignty that He will still call. Because, when we get to the judgement seat of God, it says He will judge us by our works. The only way He can do that, (because every single person is sinful) is if He gave an option to escape the sin and overcome it, which He did through Jesus.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
None of us have an excuse to not believe in and follow God. And no, God is not calling us so strongly that we don't have a choice. That is the ENTIRE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL! What in the world is the gospel message if it isn't to get man to choose to answer God's call? If we are simply robots that God randomly takes captive and forces us to love Him. That is not love.
Jesus also said that we wouldn't give our son a stone if he asks for bread, because we love our son. and if we know such a little version of love how much more does God love us? (because God is love). So Jesus was saying that we understand Love. In that aspect, love cannot come from evil. All love comes from God. The same with all the other attributes of God. Justice as well. Even though we are human and have a limited understanding, we do understand the meaning of these words, and will fully understand them better once we get to Heaven.
Here is a scenario. I choose to have two children. Just for the story's sake, let's say the ultimate wrong is to get dirty and muddy. The two children are born in the rain, and immediately get muddy. They had no choice in the matter, but I look at them and say, child #1, I choose you on a whim just because I can. I'm merciful. I will shout to you so loudly that you will have no choice but to hear and to answer me by reaching out your hand. Then I will wash you from the mud.
The second child does not get clean because he has no way out on his own. I, the parent, never gave him the option... so all his life he lives in the mud. Now, because I have no tolerance of mud, I've also created a torture of forever fire to punish all mud. Just before I throw the muddy child into the fire, I tell him that am judging him for his choice to be muddy. The child says, "But I was born in the mud and never had a way out." and you answer, "All mud deserves death" so you throw the child screaming and kicking into awful fire and listen to his anguished torment... Because I am the parent I decide to call it Justice just because I'm the parent. Never mind that I'm the one that brought him into the world, and chose to leave him in the mud, without giving him anyway to escape the mud. Justice? Can Justice be redefined just because I AM THE PARENT?
What a ridiculous story, but there is not one person on earth that would look at a scenario like this and call it Justice. So if mere humans understand that this is not Justice, but rather pure evil... how can Christians flip the script and look at God who is the source of all good, justice, and love and say that He can do whatever He wants because He is God. No He cannot! GOD CANNOT SIN! and if God can't sin, then he can't do something that is unjust as that would make Him worse than Satan. He is HOLY. TRUE. RIGHTEOUS. How can a Christian believe that God randomly chooses and can still be Just in his judgement? How can he judge us on our works as the Bible so clearly states, when we have no choice in our actions but simply to sin? THIS IS AN AWFUL GOD TO SERVE and honestly makes Him worse than the devil.
The God I serve desires a relationship with me, and knows that a loving relationship comes from free will. Love cannot happen by force. Basic, simple concepts. Distorted by "intelligent" minds that cannot see the forest for the trees
Thanks for listening
@J. M. That was a lot to read, but very well thought out. I had a hard time listening to him preach on this election and predestination topic. Never even brought up free will. Or many of the arguments that show it doesn't vibe well with other parts of scripture. Thank you for this, as you put into words what I myself was thinking.
“Foreknowledge” is only meaningful to those of us confined by and subject to time…..God suffers neither of those so “foreknowledge” is not a term which can be logically applied to him.
Thanks for listening
How do we then take Romans 5:12-19