Interesting chat, but the initial question isn't the right one. The so-called 'HS2' is not an intended fast passenger line for it's own sake. It only happens to be High Speed due to the incremental small cost over any other new line. It is actually a relief line to the East & West Coast lines intended to free up freight paths to allow High Speed Freight, I was one of the original specification reviewers , and am probably one of the few to still remember.
HS2 is not a relief line to any thing, when it opens it will be the principle hi speed route for West Coast Main Line Servoces between the North West and Birmingham to and from London and the existing WCML from Stafford to London will become the relief line for freight services nd now has nothing to do with the East Coast Main Line at least 90 miles from the HS2 route and the specifications have changed since the original reviews in the 1970's
HS2 in it's original spec was actually designed to relieve pressure on the ECML and WCML allowing more local services on those two lines and speeding up freight. Somehow that got lost in the nimbyism, poor planning and cost over runs over the years. Perhaps there is an argument that the money could have been spent upgrading the two main lines for faster trains, not 200+mph but 150+mph on both lines. Large sections of Britain's mainlines are already of a standard that would allow 150/160mph trains but the aforementioned congestion and cheapening out on the signalling systems means we're stuck with 125mph maximum speeds instead.
For me, Kenilworth station is a symbol of our failed railways and wider infrastructure planning. It has only a single track, despite seeing regular stopping, non-stopping and freight services. It has an expensive new building which is never open. It has two footbridges when only one is needed. It has a bus stop but no buses stop there. The public realm in front of the station consists of a glorified traffic island when it could have been a nice pedestrian square.
I'm not sure what not having enough green belt has to do with anything. I think what you mean is that it's a small country with a large population, but this is completely undermined by you through miles and miles of open countryside. The isn't full, it isn't fully paved over and urbanised, there plenty of room for new housing, a new high speed railway, new infrastructure without destroying a huge percentage of the countryside. I think you should do a video in 5-10 years cycling the same the route and you should see it is still a green and pleasant land with only the odd train passing through for a matter of seconds every 30 minutes.
A line that could link Manchester and Sheffield to London would be useful. In the 1980’s a detailed plan to use the Creat Central route linking Manchester and Sheffield to London via the Great Central Route. It appeared that it was never going to be Bern Guage but as I was the last mainline to be built to London with very shallow curves to maintain speeds. Sadly as this would not produce the very high speeds but with todays rolling stock it would be faster than 125mph. However a brand new high speed railway would have produced build costs resulting in eye watering profits for private constructors. Also an industry has built up debunking this low cost workable route which would have been operating now. The uk HS2 has sucked cash out of other deserving public transport projects and of course how will HS2 be of benefit the people of North Wales wanting to travel to South Wales, also the Scottish traveller that want to travel from Galashiels to Carlisle or in the North trying to get from Liverpool to Leeds or Newcastle. Simply this exercise in willy waving benefits no one and costs everyone a packet but makes others rich. A job creation scheme in all but name
I've asked lots of times why it didn't start in the north. However, as it will now terminate at Old Oak Common, the journey from Birmingham to Euston is quicker on the current Avanti services because on HS2 you'll have to complete the last bit of your journey on the Central line from one of the Acton stations. The 15 or so minutes it would have saved are gone. Perhaps if they extend it one day to the north and Scotland it be beneficial.
Terminating at OOC is only a temporary thing for 2 years as they are now boring to two running tunnels from OOC to London Euston and like the rest of HS2 the station will not be constructed until the track formation including tunnels and cuttings have been completed long with trackwork as what is happening at Birmingham Curzon Street and Birmingham Interchange Stations where the land on which these stations are be built is there, but no building work is going on yet until the tunnels, bridges and track formation is constructed and once this is done London Euston will be built. The thing is once HS2 is completed from the North West and Birmingham the only high speed services into London Euston will be run on HS2 by Avanti West Coast Trains who will be the operator of train services on both the WCML and HS2
If I understand correctly (which I may not), the link I from OOC to EUS is dependent on private finance which hasn't been committed as far as I can see. Personally, I'd like to have seen a bit of joined up thinking with regards compatibility to see big improvements around OOC-Acton Wells Junction - Willesden junction and then a split at Camden Junction so trains could either run into EUS or travel slowly via Camden road and merge with HS1 at York Way South Jn for onwards travel to the continent. Long term planning for the whole countries benefit could have seen the UK be part of European High Speed rail instead of just a capital connect service. That's the trouble with leaving large scale infrastructure projects at the mercy of governments who may only get one term and rich businesses who's only goal is financial profit.
@@nodrogwarob If you look through You tube there are vidios explaining about the two tunnel boring machines that are tunnelling from OOC to Euston as it was decided under the last Government that these tunnels had to be bored out now as once HS2 is up and running they would not be able to get the tunnel boring machines in for safety with operating trains so once the rest of the line is completed and all station are fitted out and trains start running they will then with in 2 years start sorting Euston out as they suddenly found out rthat London Old Oak Common HS2 station had not been desighned as a terminus station and lacks the amenities to be one permanently. The bit about joining up to this line and that line arround London then through Camden and join on to HS1 to the Continent, why!! there is no requirement or need for HS2 trains travelling from Birmingha, Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland to go to the Continent, it has been tried in the past and failed and Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Scotlnd have their own Airports to the Continent which is quicker and Cheaper than slowly winding through London Suburbs and then travel Through Kent, the Channel Tunnel and France/Belgium to get to Paris or Brussels
Good video but only comment. Coventry WILL benefit from HS2. As will Berkswell, even Aberwyswyth will benefit from HS2. This is because the fast trains will have their own set of tracks (HS2) allowing more trains to go onto the local lines as well as freeing up space in train stations for more LOCAL trains. Take all the stations between Brimingham New Street and Birmingham International. They receive a train every 1/2 hour. Whilst this is quite good compared to lots of rural areas, for a suburban line it is poor. Compare it to the London Overground which has a train at a minimum of every 15 minutes. The service PHYSICALLY CANNOT be increased beyond every 1/2 hour because fast expressed between London and Birmingham get in the way. Building hs2 could allow these services to become every 10 minutes or even better. HS2 is NOT ABOUT SPEED despite the name it is about capacity allowing other sections of the railway system the flexibility it needs to run more frequent and better timetables. HS2 was and still is a good project which was advertised in the wrong way because politicians decided to focus on the flashy high speed element of the project.
Fantastic comment, Thank you. I guess, what I meant; people in this area wouldn't gain any speed by jumping on HS2, they may as well use the current line. Yes, I agree, HS2 will generate additional capacity and improve services on the WCML as a result. Cheers James.
@@traveltrainshigh speed lines are for large conurbations and markets to bring them closer together not silly little towns and villages that benefit from slower more regional services, hs2 does exactly what it is meant to do, it connects the largest, second, third and fourth largest metropolises of London, Midlands, North of England and Scottish central belt
It was nice to see you back at my local station again I think hs2 is a total waste of money they should of used it on upgrading the west coast mainline great video 👍👍
@@ashleyhoye this is the clarion call of ignorant views that have no awareness of the capacity constraints on the wcml and the inability to squeeze any more mixed traffic on that line, including station capacities, passing loops and speed differences, in short you are wrong.
Sorry the east coast line has long time running at 125 mph then the west coast mine line. 😊 . Its not really the track that limits the speed it the signalling and the gaps between train . When you got train running at 125mph and ither doing 65mph on same line you have to have big gap between train . The idea of HS2 was put all the fast train on one line so you can run more train on the wast coast line
You are probably right, the extra rails were needed, but where? No matter what was done, the project would upset somebody somewhere. So in 2012, the surveyor's pen that scored ambivalently through the parishes of Radstone, Thorpe Mandeville and Wormleighton deftly followed an abandoned railway through the centre of Burton Green. Unlike these other places Burton Green will benefit by reuse of the old railway cutting by creating a tunnel, reinstating a landscape and threading an existing greenway through the whole thing. And while the residents hold HS2 to account for every wrinkle in the community wallpaper, the works at Burton Green alone contrive to send the cost of the enterprise into the stratosphere
@@traveltrains well, if you compare it to cars it is bloody fast. The most special thing about the southeastern high-speed service is that it is a regional rail service. You won't find a 225 km/h regional train anywhere in the world except with them.
The magic words that justify HS2 and the other greenfields lines is “Loading Gauge” and technical debt. Loading gauge is basically what size+shape carriages you can fit on the track, especially ISO sized containers. Most of Britain’s network is early adoptor Victorian stuff, old tracks too close together with narrow tunnels, W6A size. Great for the time but out of date now. You can’t fit modern UIC GC carriages or refrigerated ISO container freight down there and to modify them you’d have to close it and rebuild it all anyway. Nobody wants the West Coast Mainline closed for years, so building new is the most feasible plan.
Modern UIC Containers do fit on UK freight trains by lowering the height of the container flat base from track height nd fitting one container per freigh wagon instead od 2 or 3 containers but HS2 is just a passengr line and yes people do need the WCML
@@peterwilliamallen1063I think you’ve demonstrated the problem quite well, the oldest parts of WCML date to 1837. As you say it’s been designed primarily as a passenger line, but this is a 200+ year asset, does your crystal ball for how the line will be used extend to 2224? We have one chance to get this right, we can either do another British bodge or take the Bazalgette approach and deliberately build for the future needs.
@@technicalvault HS2 will never operate freight services as it is being desighned as purely passenger carrying Railway route with no connections to freight facilities and only connecting to the existing rail network at Handsacre in Staffordshire and a connection at Euston Station where one platform is being desighned to accomodate either a HS2 service or a WCML service, you can not run a 250 mph passenger service long side a 90 mph freight service and freight services on HS1 to the continent operate over night when the Eurostar service don't operate
HS2 was designed to unrealistically high standards. Due to this, the costs spiralled out of control and it was inevitable that the politicians couldn't carry on with it due to the very poor value for money - money that could be spent on more popular things like investment in schools / hospitals etc.Maybe one day it'll be finished with a more realistic top speed of 140mph or so which is more than enough considering the short distances.
We should look ourselves on Google Map. We shouldn't done ages ago, what phases to begin with. The government somehow hit or miss information for any of it.
How would it of been cheaper to reopen the old Great Central Mainline, most of it now has been rubbed away with new developement, viaducts destroyed and at Nottingham the line has been built over by the City Centre, not only that the old Great Central goes no where nere the main principle City of HS2 the UK's second largest City Birmingham
The money would be better spent on the existing infrastructure. There are far more urgent needs than shaving a few minutes off the west coast mainline.
The purpose of HS2 was never to “shave a few minutes off” travel between London and Birmingham… it is to increase CAPACITY. The west coast main line is used by both intercity and commuter services - HS2 moves the intercity trains off the WCML, freeing up space for other traffic, resulting in more local trains, less overcrowding and less delays up and down the country. This isn’t hard to understand.
@@harrygraves6870 I agree with you completely, apart from your last point. It seems it is hard to understand. But then perhaps this space is inhabited by ignorant people. Pip Pip.
@@harrygraves6870(Genuine question). There is a bit of a gap in that logic. Why not build a new 200km/h line instead of HST? It would add the same capacity as HS2, and presumably would be a lot cheaper and less environmentally damaging.
@@jack2453 imagine you have two pipes carrying water. Both have the same diameter, but in one of the pipes, the water flows much faster compared to the other. Which pipe carries greater volume of water from A to B per unit time? The one with the faster flowing water. Volume of water is then analogous to volume of passengers. If you can move the passengers faster, then you can move more of them. Yes, speed and capacity are not equivalent, however speed is inevitably a key component in a high capacity rail network.
@@jack2453you need the speed to join up with Scotland and remove the need for almost all domestic flights from Glasgow and Edinburgh to London, London to Glasgow and Edinburgh is about the same distance as marseille to Paris
Why do Brompton cyclists insist on dumping their bikes where people are getting on and off the train? It's your luggage. Why don't you keep it with you? That way people won't trip over it.
LOL, I will tell you secret.... They are heavier than you think (Owners hate to admit that!) and they are too big to take to the seat on the train - I always stand with mine (they are expensive too!)
So are your one of the few happy at the prospect of paying a £3 HS2 phase one surcharge, one every Network Rail ticket you purchase, anywhere in the UK, from 2029, for fifty years, to cover the interest on the £70bn or so capital costs of a service you cant't access, despite living in its corridor? A service that despite utilising the old Junction railway and Great Central mainline trackbed, will now bypasses all towns those lines once served, like Burton Green, and Kenilworth, to offer the residents of central London and Birmingham the possibility, at some point, to ride at 400kph, between conurbations, at the expense of those in the towns they are passing by.
Just one big con.birmingham london 100 mil give or take .todays train time moor st Marylebone 1 hour 40 mins.hs2 will take 20 mins of this time ?????? How fast will this train go.basic arithmetic says less than 100 mph.in 1926 the steam locamotive the flying scotsman don kingscross waverly in just over 4 hours with a man with a shovel.100 years and going backward.just ask yourself why america has no high speed trains as industrialised as for the last 100 + years.anyway who wants to go to London on this state of afairs with labour about to take power many buisnesses will be shipping out
It was never about speed, and it's infuriating that the governments sold it as such because then folk like you rightly ask why pay billions for a slightly shorter journey? The answer is capacity - that was always the main cost justification for the line.
Yes, I value the capacity over the speed on this project. This should be one of many projects though. Electrifying ALL lines should be a priority too! Thank you for you comment.
From Birmingham Snow Hill to London Marelabone time varies between 2hrs 30 mins and 1hr 58 mins depending on what service you catch on the West Coast Route between London Euston and Birmingham New Street the Avanti West Coast Service takes about 90 min but when HS2 opens from London Euston to Birmingham Curzon Street the trains will be doing 225 mph and take 50 mins nto do the journey knocking 40 mins off the journey time
Interesting chat, but the initial question isn't the right one. The so-called 'HS2' is not an intended fast passenger line for it's own sake. It only happens to be High Speed due to the incremental small cost over any other new line. It is actually a relief line to the East & West Coast lines intended to free up freight paths to allow High Speed Freight, I was one of the original specification reviewers , and am probably one of the few to still remember.
HS2 is not a relief line to any thing, when it opens it will be the principle hi speed route for West Coast Main Line Servoces between the North West and Birmingham to and from London and the existing WCML from Stafford to London will become the relief line for freight services nd now has nothing to do with the East Coast Main Line at least 90 miles from the HS2 route and the specifications have changed since the original reviews in the 1970's
HS2 in it's original spec was actually designed to relieve pressure on the ECML and WCML allowing more local services on those two lines and speeding up freight. Somehow that got lost in the nimbyism, poor planning and cost over runs over the years.
Perhaps there is an argument that the money could have been spent upgrading the two main lines for faster trains, not 200+mph but 150+mph on both lines. Large sections of Britain's mainlines are already of a standard that would allow 150/160mph trains but the aforementioned congestion and cheapening out on the signalling systems means we're stuck with 125mph maximum speeds instead.
Thank you for the detailed comment. The construction around Burton Green and Berkswell already has changed a fair bit since filming this video.
high quality video with some impressive knowkedge! Wishing your channel all the best
Thank you for the comment! I’m having a go!
For me, Kenilworth station is a symbol of our failed railways and wider infrastructure planning. It has only a single track, despite seeing regular stopping, non-stopping and freight services. It has an expensive new building which is never open. It has two footbridges when only one is needed. It has a bus stop but no buses stop there. The public realm in front of the station consists of a glorified traffic island when it could have been a nice pedestrian square.
£13 million to build too!
Thank you for taking the time to comment.
@@traveltrains That's not a lot, the new Coventry station building* cost £82 million!
*multistorey car park
It had 2 lines and 2 platforms but the Tories beeching plan saw it close. Once you remove infrastructure it costs a hell of a lot to reinstate it.
I'm not sure what not having enough green belt has to do with anything. I think what you mean is that it's a small country with a large population, but this is completely undermined by you through miles and miles of open countryside. The isn't full, it isn't fully paved over and urbanised, there plenty of room for new housing, a new high speed railway, new infrastructure without destroying a huge percentage of the countryside. I think you should do a video in 5-10 years cycling the same the route and you should see it is still a green and pleasant land with only the odd train passing through for a matter of seconds every 30 minutes.
A line that could link Manchester and Sheffield to London would be useful.
In the 1980’s a detailed plan to use the Creat Central route linking Manchester and Sheffield to London via the Great Central Route.
It appeared that it was never going to be Bern Guage but as I was the last mainline to be built to London with very shallow curves to maintain speeds.
Sadly as this would not produce the very high speeds but with todays rolling stock it would be faster than 125mph.
However a brand new high speed railway would have produced build costs resulting in eye watering profits for private constructors.
Also an industry has built up debunking this low cost workable route which would have been operating now.
The uk HS2 has sucked cash out of other deserving public transport projects and of course how will HS2 be of benefit the people of North Wales wanting to travel to South Wales, also the Scottish traveller that want to travel from Galashiels to Carlisle or in the North trying to get from Liverpool to Leeds or Newcastle.
Simply this exercise in willy waving benefits no one and costs everyone a packet but makes others rich.
A job creation scheme in all but name
Thank you for the detailed comment.
I've asked lots of times why it didn't start in the north. However, as it will now terminate at Old Oak Common, the journey from Birmingham to Euston is quicker on the current Avanti services because on HS2 you'll have to complete the last bit of your journey on the Central line from one of the Acton stations. The 15 or so minutes it would have saved are gone. Perhaps if they extend it one day to the north and Scotland it be beneficial.
Totally agree! thank you for your comment.
Terminating at OOC is only a temporary thing for 2 years as they are now boring to two running tunnels from OOC to London Euston and like the rest of HS2 the station will not be constructed until the track formation including tunnels and cuttings have been completed long with trackwork as what is happening at Birmingham Curzon Street and Birmingham Interchange Stations where the land on which these stations are be built is there, but no building work is going on yet until the tunnels, bridges and track formation is constructed and once this is done London Euston will be built. The thing is once HS2 is completed from the North West and Birmingham the only high speed services into London Euston will be run on HS2 by Avanti West Coast Trains who will be the operator of train services on both the WCML and HS2
If I understand correctly (which I may not), the link I from OOC to EUS is dependent on private finance which hasn't been committed as far as I can see.
Personally, I'd like to have seen a bit of joined up thinking with regards compatibility to see big improvements around OOC-Acton Wells Junction - Willesden junction and then a split at Camden Junction so trains could either run into EUS or travel slowly via Camden road and merge with HS1 at York Way South Jn for onwards travel to the continent.
Long term planning for the whole countries benefit could have seen the UK be part of European High Speed rail instead of just a capital connect service.
That's the trouble with leaving large scale infrastructure projects at the mercy of governments who may only get one term and rich businesses who's only goal is financial profit.
@@nodrogwarob If you look through You tube there are vidios explaining about the two tunnel boring machines that are tunnelling from OOC to Euston as it was decided under the last Government that these tunnels had to be bored out now as once HS2 is up and running they would not be able to get the tunnel boring machines in for safety with operating trains so once the rest of the line is completed and all station are fitted out and trains start running they will then with in 2 years start sorting Euston out as they suddenly found out rthat London Old Oak Common HS2 station had not been desighned as a terminus station and lacks the amenities to be one permanently. The bit about joining up to this line and that line arround London then through Camden and join on to HS1 to the Continent, why!! there is no requirement or need for HS2 trains travelling from Birmingha, Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland to go to the Continent, it has been tried in the past and failed and Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Scotlnd have their own Airports to the Continent which is quicker and Cheaper than slowly winding through London Suburbs and then travel Through Kent, the Channel Tunnel and France/Belgium to get to Paris or Brussels
Brilliant presentation. THANK YOU
Thank you for the comment. Pleased to hear you enjoyed it. Thank you.
Good video but only comment. Coventry WILL benefit from HS2. As will Berkswell, even Aberwyswyth will benefit from HS2. This is because the fast trains will have their own set of tracks (HS2) allowing more trains to go onto the local lines as well as freeing up space in train stations for more LOCAL trains. Take all the stations between Brimingham New Street and Birmingham International. They receive a train every 1/2 hour. Whilst this is quite good compared to lots of rural areas, for a suburban line it is poor. Compare it to the London Overground which has a train at a minimum of every 15 minutes. The service PHYSICALLY CANNOT be increased beyond every 1/2 hour because fast expressed between London and Birmingham get in the way. Building hs2 could allow these services to become every 10 minutes or even better. HS2 is NOT ABOUT SPEED despite the name it is about capacity allowing other sections of the railway system the flexibility it needs to run more frequent and better timetables.
HS2 was and still is a good project which was advertised in the wrong way because politicians decided to focus on the flashy high speed element of the project.
Fantastic comment, Thank you. I guess, what I meant; people in this area wouldn't gain any speed by jumping on HS2, they may as well use the current line. Yes, I agree, HS2 will generate additional capacity and improve services on the WCML as a result. Cheers James.
@@traveltrainshigh speed lines are for large conurbations and markets to bring them closer together not silly little towns and villages that benefit from slower more regional services, hs2 does exactly what it is meant to do, it connects the largest, second, third and fourth largest metropolises of London, Midlands, North of England and Scottish central belt
It was nice to see you back at my local station again I think hs2 is a total waste of money they should of used it on upgrading the west coast mainline great video 👍👍
It would be a total waste of money as there's no remaining capacity on the WCML.
@@ashleyhoye this is the clarion call of ignorant views that have no awareness of the capacity constraints on the wcml and the inability to squeeze any more mixed traffic on that line, including station capacities, passing loops and speed differences, in short you are wrong.
Sorry the east coast line has long time running at 125 mph then the west coast mine line. 😊 . Its not really the track that limits the speed it the signalling and the gaps between train . When you got train running at 125mph and ither doing 65mph on same line you have to have big gap between train . The idea of HS2 was put all the fast train on one line so you can run more train on the wast coast line
You are probably right, the extra rails were needed, but where? No matter what was done, the project would upset somebody somewhere. So in 2012, the surveyor's pen that scored ambivalently through the parishes of Radstone, Thorpe Mandeville and Wormleighton deftly followed an abandoned railway through the centre of Burton Green. Unlike these other places Burton Green will benefit by reuse of the old railway cutting by creating a tunnel, reinstating a landscape and threading an existing greenway through the whole thing. And while the residents hold HS2 to account for every wrinkle in the community wallpaper, the works at Burton Green alone contrive to send the cost of the enterprise into the stratosphere
Some excellent points, I totally agree with what you say about Burton Green. Thank you for the comment. James
The fastest domestic train in the UK is the Southeastern high-speed service that runs over HS1 at 225 km/h (140mph).
Thanks for the comment and info Stefan.
(It’s still not that fast) 😂
@@traveltrains well, if you compare it to cars it is bloody fast. The most special thing about the southeastern high-speed service is that it is a regional rail service. You won't find a 225 km/h regional train anywhere in the world except with them.
What about Eurostar ? 300kph
@@aldo4319 It doesn't run domestic services and only stops at London St. Pancras Int.
It would have been cheaper to make the WCML 4 tracks all the way to Preston. This would remove the bottlenecks where the lines go from 4 to 2.
True!
The magic words that justify HS2 and the other greenfields lines is “Loading Gauge” and technical debt. Loading gauge is basically what size+shape carriages you can fit on the track, especially ISO sized containers. Most of Britain’s network is early adoptor Victorian stuff, old tracks too close together with narrow tunnels, W6A size. Great for the time but out of date now.
You can’t fit modern UIC GC carriages or refrigerated ISO container freight down there and to modify them you’d have to close it and rebuild it all anyway. Nobody wants the West Coast Mainline closed for years, so building new is the most feasible plan.
But freight is not going used HS2 . HS 2 was to free space up on the WCML
Modern UIC Containers do fit on UK freight trains by lowering the height of the container flat base from track height nd fitting one container per freigh wagon instead od 2 or 3 containers but HS2 is just a passengr line and yes people do need the WCML
@@peterwilliamallen1063I think you’ve demonstrated the problem quite well, the oldest parts of WCML date to 1837. As you say it’s been designed primarily as a passenger line, but this is a 200+ year asset, does your crystal ball for how the line will be used extend to 2224? We have one chance to get this right, we can either do another British bodge or take the Bazalgette approach and deliberately build for the future needs.
@@technicalvault HS2 will never operate freight services as it is being desighned as purely passenger carrying Railway route with no connections to freight facilities and only connecting to the existing rail network at Handsacre in Staffordshire and a connection at Euston Station where one platform is being desighned to accomodate either a HS2 service or a WCML service, you can not run a 250 mph passenger service long side a 90 mph freight service and freight services on HS1 to the continent operate over night when the Eurostar service don't operate
HS2 was designed to unrealistically high standards. Due to this, the costs spiralled out of control and it was inevitable that the politicians couldn't carry on with it due to the very poor value for money - money that could be spent on more popular things like investment in schools / hospitals etc.Maybe one day it'll be finished with a more realistic top speed of 140mph or so which is more than enough considering the short distances.
"I fear the tickets will be very very expensive too, it was always going to cost more"
We should look ourselves on Google Map. We shouldn't done ages ago, what phases to begin with. The government somehow hit or miss information for any of it.
And for a fraction of the cost and still get the same speed of trains, they could have reopened the Great Central Railway Line!
How would it of been cheaper to reopen the old Great Central Mainline, most of it now has been rubbed away with new developement, viaducts destroyed and at Nottingham the line has been built over by the City Centre, not only that the old Great Central goes no where nere the main principle City of HS2 the UK's second largest City Birmingham
The money would be better spent on the existing infrastructure. There are far more urgent needs than shaving a few minutes off the west coast mainline.
The purpose of HS2 was never to “shave a few minutes off” travel between London and Birmingham… it is to increase CAPACITY. The west coast main line is used by both intercity and commuter services - HS2 moves the intercity trains off the WCML, freeing up space for other traffic, resulting in more local trains, less overcrowding and less delays up and down the country. This isn’t hard to understand.
@@harrygraves6870 I agree with you completely, apart from your last point. It seems it is hard to understand. But then perhaps this space is inhabited by ignorant people. Pip Pip.
@@harrygraves6870(Genuine question). There is a bit of a gap in that logic. Why not build a new 200km/h line instead of HST? It would add the same capacity as HS2, and presumably would be a lot cheaper and less environmentally damaging.
@@jack2453 imagine you have two pipes carrying water. Both have the same diameter, but in one of the pipes, the water flows much faster compared to the other. Which pipe carries greater volume of water from A to B per unit time? The one with the faster flowing water.
Volume of water is then analogous to volume of passengers. If you can move the passengers faster, then you can move more of them. Yes, speed and capacity are not equivalent, however speed is inevitably a key component in a high capacity rail network.
@@jack2453you need the speed to join up with Scotland and remove the need for almost all domestic flights from Glasgow and Edinburgh to London, London to Glasgow and Edinburgh is about the same distance as marseille to Paris
Why do Brompton cyclists insist on dumping their bikes where people are getting on and off the train?
It's your luggage. Why don't you keep it with you? That way people won't trip over it.
LOL, I will tell you secret.... They are heavier than you think (Owners hate to admit that!) and they are too big to take to the seat on the train - I always stand with mine (they are expensive too!)
So are your one of the few happy at the prospect of paying a £3 HS2 phase one surcharge, one every Network Rail ticket you purchase, anywhere in the UK, from 2029, for fifty years, to cover the interest on the £70bn or so capital costs of a service you cant't access, despite living in its corridor? A service that despite utilising the old Junction railway and Great Central mainline trackbed, will now bypasses all towns those lines once served, like Burton Green, and Kenilworth, to offer the residents of central London and Birmingham the possibility, at some point, to ride at 400kph, between conurbations, at the expense of those in the towns they are passing by.
No . Put the money into state owned power and gas then use the profit to construct the new line....
LOL, not actually a bad idea!
thats the same as the 125,s which has been in service since the 1970,s.
havent we moved on eh,
the govt are a joke!
LOL I know. Don't forget the bus replacement services on the weekend (Shhh) Thank you for your comment.
Just one big con.birmingham london 100 mil give or take .todays train time moor st Marylebone 1 hour 40 mins.hs2 will take 20 mins of this time ?????? How fast will this train go.basic arithmetic says less than 100 mph.in 1926 the steam locamotive the flying scotsman don kingscross waverly in just over 4 hours with a man with a shovel.100 years and going backward.just ask yourself why america has no high speed trains as industrialised as for the last 100 + years.anyway who wants to go to London on this state of afairs with labour about to take power many buisnesses will be shipping out
It was never about speed, and it's infuriating that the governments sold it as such because then folk like you rightly ask why pay billions for a slightly shorter journey? The answer is capacity - that was always the main cost justification for the line.
Yes, I value the capacity over the speed on this project. This should be one of many projects though. Electrifying ALL lines should be a priority too! Thank you for you comment.
From Birmingham Snow Hill to London Marelabone time varies between 2hrs 30 mins and 1hr 58 mins depending on what service you catch on the West Coast Route between London Euston and Birmingham New Street the Avanti West Coast Service takes about 90 min but when HS2 opens from London Euston to Birmingham Curzon Street the trains will be doing 225 mph and take 50 mins nto do the journey knocking 40 mins off the journey time