Thank you for doing this, you helped me found my business 10 years ago and I really wanted to thank you.. I was able to do so much without having gone to school because of your videos.
Im 16 years old and ive been building all kinds of circuts and started using embeded processors like the AVR's not to long ago and I just wanted to say that I love your blog and its helped me so much with learning all these concepts :) so thanks for all your doing and keep it up.
Thank you! I had very little knowledge of the charging characteristics of lithium ion cells. I watched a couple videos on the topic and came away confused. I didn’t know there was a constant current charge cycle followed by a constant voltage charge cycle. As always, I thought you explained it extremely well and I easily understood what you were saying. I have often said, how much you learn is not as dependent on how smart you are but how smart your teacher is. Thank you!
One thing to watch is power dissipation on the linear chargers - at charge currents over a few hundred mA, you don't need too much input-output voltage differential before the charge time gets extended due to the charger going into thermal limiting. Most of the cheap ones aren't packaged to conduct heat out well.
this guys amazing and very knowledgeable. although he looks to have been filled with a couple hundred volts over time himself.thanks for the great videos.
Min 12:00 , what i dont get is . Does the battery voltage increase because the charger increases the voltage ? Or is the charger applying 4.2V constantly and still the battery voltage increases just slowly ?
Dave - I've been watching EEVblog videos all weekend. Looking to get back into my hardware engineering roots. I find these incredibly useful and motivating. Thanks so much for all your work on them.
Overall Your videos are awesome, thanks - helps a lot! :) But story behind Li-ion, LiPo and LiFePo is a bit different. Li-ion: Vn = 3.6V (uses transition metal ion eletrolitic compound) LiPo: Vn=3.7V (uses synthetic polymer compounds as eletrolite lowering internal resistance... this is where +0.1V in avg comes from) LiFePo: Vn = 3.3V (same synthetic polymer compound as eletrolite + different anode that changes reaction electrochemically itself).
Minor remark: charging is never exothermic with respect to the charged battery. The heat production comes from energy loss, the energy coming from the charger. Charging must be endothermic, because the chemical reaction to deliver energy necessarily must be exothermic. Great explanation and great videos, BTW. Thanks a lot.
Actually past Dave, Li-poly are different from Li-Ion. Poly cells are prismatic and typically for high drain applications up to 30C, while most ion versions are for lower drain applications up to 20A and are usually manufactured as cylindrical cells
Seriously appreciate the content as an aspiring creator / engineer trying to learn on my own. Advice is top notch. Bloody good channel and keep up the great vids ❤
@blackmuzzle You can't just make that blanket statement that "modern cells" have no problem. Read the datasheets for all those Li-Poly cells I showed. 0.5C recommended as standard charge, 1C absolute maximum for "fast charge". Always read the datasheet, cell types and their recommendations are many and varied. Yes, some are specifically designed for very fast charging. The price you pay will usually be cell life.
Love the video, Dave's back! Please keep up the long videos like this, this information, level of detail, and overall information is not easy to get elsewhere. I always feel like I've learned a bit more after watching one of these, please keep it up!
Thank you so much, Dave! I was just thinking that I’ve seen more hours of your videos than anything Hollywood has produced. Lol. Your videos are amazing.
Digital camera batteries for popular camera models can be a nice cheap source of ready-packaged batteries. Ditto camcorder ones, typically 7.2V, and also phone batteries. Just be aware that clones tend to have 10K resistors instead of thermistors...
Dave Jones you are my favorite TH-cam personality. I would follow you anywhere. I only wish that I lived in Australia because then I would ask if I could be shop boy. I would sweep floors, scrub toilets and dismantle electronics for you. I would work for beans and biscuits. I would put a cot in the broom closet and call that home. Is it true that you have a locker at the bottom of the sea where pirates disappear to?
Can you explain please how balance chargers are implemented for simultaneous charging to cells in series? Component level explanation as shown in this video would be appreciated.
Li-ion and Li-po do have a difference now some Li-Po have higher charging and nominal voltages and they are also also available in large capacity pouches where as li-ion are not and they have higher C ratings much higher compared to Li-Ion
Fantastic explanation! I worked on power supplies and converters and inverters and find this a really simple but good video explaining the whole thing of Li Ion and charging ckts!
@bcsupport Most chip manufacturers have devices designed for more than 1 cell. It's usually an option in the parametric search table. You can't just use a single cell charger chip with those.
That was exactly what I needed. I'm interning at NASA and we're building a prototype lunar lander and rover that powers a Li-Ion/Li-Po off solar panels and we were having trouble charging and some other things. I have a question though: Why is part 2 of the charging process (I believe it's called trickle charging) necessary? Why can't you just charge using the part 1 method up to 100%? Is it a safety thing, an efficiency thing, or something else? Thanks
@mikeselectricstuff Yep, good point Mike. Could probably do another whole blog on just how to implement the charger IC's. Many of the packages like DFN will have thermal pads on the bottom to help with dissipation. The on-chip die temp monitors usually kick in around 120degC and limit the charge current.
@TheEPROM9 Reminds me about 15 yrs ago I made a portable BBC micro - used the original case with a 320x240 mono EL display in the lid, and PSU full of nicad D-cells and a DC/DC converter. ISTR I had to mod the sound circuit to run without the -ve rail.
@vaneenbergen I totally forgot to mention the protection circuit built into the bigger cell I was waving around. You really should be using these protected cells, they protect against shorts, over-discharge, over-voltage etc. With the unprotected cells, you have to take more care, and either add your own protection circuitry and/or design your product properly to ensure the battery is not abused.
Hi, I want to replace my defective laptop battery from a 15 years old PowerBook G4. It's using US18650GR cells which are rated at 2100 mAh. They have no integrated protection circuit. Is it possible to change to XTAR cells rated at 2200 mAh or maybe cells rated at 2500 mAh or 3000 mAh? Will it change the charging process and damage my power supply by using a higher current? Will the protection circuit affect the laptops behaviour? Note: when opening the battery, it seemed like there is a built in temperature sensor for the whole package of 6 cells. Kind regards
You can't push the cell to higher than 4.2V without damaging it (which might make it go bang). Unless you use a ridiculously low charge rate the cell will reach that voltage before it's 100% full. As the battery charges its voltage gets higher, so to maintain a constant current you have to keep raising your charge voltage. Once you hit the voltage limit you can't raise it any more, so the current starts to reduce and the last few percent takes for ever.
you're right.i've had that happening to me in galaxy s7 wich ended up destroying the whole universe so i've hooked up a 1N4148 to gnd to prevent any reverse polarity. i only have 4 alternate dimensions points left on my driving licence.
Dave, we can always rely on you for very solid material, like this one, on Electronic Engineering. Thanks very much. Keep them coming. Question: 1/ In a charging system, like say on an Electric car (Completely Electric), where REGENERATIVE BERAKING charges the battery, how is this possible? Since, during the REGENERATIVE BERAKING charging process, the battery is still supplying power to operate the various systems on the car (i.e Lights, radio, the Mini fridge with the cold drinks etc). I would be very grateful if you could explain how the battery gets charged during breaking AND if possible, point me to any in-depth detailed reading material, and 2/ Would this explanation apply to other battery types such as Led Acid 3/ Where could I find in-depth detailed information on Lead Acid Battery charging. Thanks very much.
Is there a video on charging unprotected batteries? Would a charger know when a unprotected battery is full? If not how do i tell if battery is full or at the end process of CV if time not available on data sheet and cant measure current
The main thing that is reducing the capacity is the discharge rate. The difference between 1C and 2C discharge is about 3% for 300 cycles. Of course, this differs between batteries also.
@vaneenbergen Lithium Ion Polymer are more robust than Lithium Ion. But if you are really concerned, try LiFePo4 as @Pook365 said, they are much safer and won't go exothermic.
Hi Dave, I'm not fully agree about the amount of energy accumulated since the voltage reaches 4.2v and the current starts to fall. I have bought an Icharger 206B and made some experiments with the three types of balance modes it brings. I have logg all the charging proccess data and I would like to share it with you because I know you will get more information about them than me and maybe make another intersting video. If you are interested in, please let me know how to send you the data. The software I am using to see the data is LogView Studio.
try 3 battery packs in circulation on samba, keeping 1 pack for the load 1 charged and waiting or charging and 1 on charge , this way there's no charging and discharging simultaneously
All Lithium ion polymer batteries are lithium ion batteries, but not all lithium ion batteries are lithium polymer. Those which are not "polymer" are the ones which catch on fire because the electrolyte is so flammable. In polymer electrolyte batteries, the electrolyte is bound in the polymer.
Oh, I don't mind "long" video's like this. Please don't make them shorter. I'd like to have all the info on a particular subject explained to me in one go. I don't want all that information crammed in 10 minutes, or something. I also don't like video's that just explain the basics of some concept really fast. That's why I like your video's: long and detailed information. Going to have a look at a supplier for these batteries and for their charger ICs. Very useful for my next project. :)
@blackmuzzle Yes, the RC packs are usually designed specifically for high charge/discharge rates, to drive motors and the like. They have different requirements and specs to regular cells that are designed for your ordinary electronic gadgets. Totally different ball game, and one where temperature monitors and safety timers are much more important.
Can you please talk a little bit about battery protection circuits and how to protect the battery with MCP73831 + LDO configuration against under voltage discharge (over discharge).
Lithium polymer is different to a standard lithium ion battery. Li ion polymer has a plastic electrolyte, while lithium ion batteries have a liquid electrolyte.
I've seen a lot of manufacturers state the "full" current as .03C, or 3% of the batteries A rating, so remember to check that before charging one. Don't just go with 10% as a universal rule.
its better to use a higher value. it doesnt really matter if your value is a little higher. unless you need that 1% more charge on it. you won't get more then a few % more amps toward the max capacity if you use 3% instead. if you use 3% even though your cell is 5% it'll never stop charging(which is bad). if you use 10% instead of 3% it'll just a stop a little sooner. and its not charging very fast at the last few percents anyway since the amp's already dropped all the way down. if you set it to 10% it'll finish charging a lot faster(not to 100% however) for a little less capacity.
What it the best way to charge Lithium-ion batterers to maintain the life of the battery in a device like the 7 inch Kindle Fire tablet? By battery life, I mean the life of the battery before it will needs replacement. Some say it should be completely discharge about once a month. However, I also heard that is only valid for the old nickel-cadmium batteries.
Presuming it’s fine for the alternator, can you use an alternator directly as a charger for big lifepo4 packs? It puts out a Constant voltage of 14.6. And current is limited to 100 amps. It costs a lot to get a 100amp ic
. I also found the following when I googed: "For proper reporting of the battery’s state of charge, be sure to go through at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down)." To me, the above means for proper reporting of the how much charge is left in the battery, not to make the battery last longer before it need replacement. Am I correct?
Nice video, very educational :) I'm building a charger using a MCP73833. The datasheet mentioned a design with a mosfet and a Schottky diode to isolate the load behind the charger. This negates the (possible) issue of the system connected to the battery from being affected when the battery is charged.
Some say there is no problem leaving the charger connected, even when in use, the charger regulator in the device will protect the battery from being over charged. Is this true? Also, will the device like a Kindle Fire use the charger's for power and not the battery, thus extending the live of the battery before it needs replacement?
I have a 3 (in parallele) cell Li-ion batt from sparkfun (google finds them quickly) and Im having a lot of trouble designing a charger for them because all of the Li-ion charger IC i find specify the they only charge One cell batteries but Im not sure if they refer to one cell in series or parralel? thanx in advance for any help.
If they are truly in parallel, then this would be defined as "One cell". For this case, the current ratings for the charging circuitry would be three times that of a single individual cell. However, the advertised specs for the whole battery may be rated for all three in parallel already. redrok
Alot of youtube videos shows how to build batterypacks and how to charge them. One thing I don't find an answer on is: If I build my own charger for a batterypack, should I treat the entire batterypack as 1 large battery, OR, shall I treat each battery in the pack as individuals, and adjust my charging accordingly for each individual battery? :)
Is the Charge Protection built into those tiny Li-Po cells, usually covered by yellow tape, the same as the Battery Charging Chip you talked about? As in, if my Li-Po cell has built-in Charge Protection circuitry, can I just connect it straight to a 4.2V power supply and expect it to charge correctly on its own? (You may have mentioned this in the video, in which case I missed it...)
@vaneenbergen When used properly their dangers although real are very unlikely to ever be encountered. You could always try LiFePo4 batteries instead as they are more or less safe. IC's are available to charge those from Microchip (I presume other ppl as well) I've used the MCP73X23 but they do a couple of others to.
Hello, your demonstration is just perfect (as others) I am trying to "revive" LIIon batteries for portable vacuum cleaners, they where not used but they are old now (exposition models) I am not sure, if I plug my CC CV alim directly on the battery elements, may I use for instance 20% of the total voltage and 10% of the charging amp ? I tried on one cell as on the whole group and I see no amps asked by the batteries, nothing happens, SO there is no charging at all I suppose ? Thank you and sorry for the may be stupid question.
Hi, thanks for this useful video. I have a question about LiPo chargers. What would is the difference between a normal LiPo Charger, for example, four cells, and a Balanced LiPo Charger for four cells. I mean, is there any difference for the lifespan of the cells?
During the CV phase of charging, an exponentially falling current is still going inside the battery so why doesn't the voltage across battery increase during that phase?
33:54 I don't think it's actually that high with respect to your diagram. The 20% in your diagram was with respect to current. Your precondition voltage showed 2.8V which is about 67%--pretty much exactly what the datasheet shows.
Could you please clarify this for a newbie? Let's say I have a simple 150 USD "linear" power supply. And set it up at 0.10C and 4.2Volts. The supply will keep a constant current of 0.1C until the voltage reaches 4.2V and then will go into c.v. mode until the current drops to almost nothing and then I have to disconnect the battery. Exactly at what point of this theoretical procedure will reality deviate due to thermal limiting on the power supply? Also, are linear PSs ok for this job?
Thank you for doing this, you helped me found my business 10 years ago and I really wanted to thank you.. I was able to do so much without having gone to school because of your videos.
Yeah I think Dave said he went to electronics school but built things before that that helped him self pass through.
Your enthusiasm is taking me with you :) Just found you because I was suddenly wondering how li-ion batteries charge
Im 16 years old and ive been building all kinds of circuts and started using embeded processors like the AVR's not to long ago and I just wanted to say that I love your blog and its helped me so much with learning all these concepts :)
so thanks for all your doing and keep it up.
I love the way the Aussies talk! :) All happy and positive 👍🏻
Thank you! I had very little knowledge of the charging characteristics of lithium ion cells. I watched a couple videos on the topic and came away confused. I didn’t know there was a constant current charge cycle followed by a constant voltage charge cycle. As always, I thought you explained it extremely well and I easily understood what you were saying. I have often said, how much you learn is not as dependent on how smart you are but how smart your teacher is. Thank you!
One thing to watch is power dissipation on the linear chargers - at charge currents over a few hundred mA, you don't need too much input-output voltage differential before the charge time gets extended due to the charger going into thermal limiting. Most of the cheap ones aren't packaged to conduct heat out well.
this guys amazing and very knowledgeable. although he looks to have been filled with a couple hundred volts over time himself.thanks for the great videos.
You've gotta love Dave's enthusiasm!
Btw, great video!!!
@@MrDoneboy=0
good job man
Min 12:00 , what i dont get is . Does the battery voltage increase because the charger increases the voltage ? Or is the charger applying 4.2V constantly and still the battery voltage increases just slowly ?
I come back and rewatch this when I'm getting fuzzy, Dave is the best.
Dave - I've been watching EEVblog videos all weekend. Looking to get back into my hardware engineering roots. I find these incredibly useful and motivating. Thanks so much for all your work on them.
Overall Your videos are awesome, thanks - helps a lot! :)
But story behind Li-ion, LiPo and LiFePo is a bit different.
Li-ion: Vn = 3.6V (uses transition metal ion eletrolitic compound)
LiPo: Vn=3.7V (uses synthetic polymer compounds as eletrolite lowering internal resistance... this is where +0.1V in avg comes from)
LiFePo: Vn = 3.3V (same synthetic polymer compound as eletrolite + different anode that changes reaction electrochemically itself).
Minor remark: charging is never exothermic with respect to the charged battery. The heat production comes from energy loss, the energy coming from the charger. Charging must be endothermic, because the chemical reaction to deliver energy necessarily must be exothermic.
Great explanation and great videos, BTW. Thanks a lot.
Actually past Dave, Li-poly are different from Li-Ion. Poly cells are prismatic and typically for high drain applications up to 30C, while most ion versions are for lower drain applications up to 20A and are usually manufactured as cylindrical cells
li po is li ion
Seriously appreciate the content as an aspiring creator / engineer trying to learn on my own. Advice is top notch. Bloody good channel and keep up the great vids ❤
@bcsupport You can get charger ICs for multi-cell packs. I've used a Microchip 2-cell one in the past
"You really should know because it's interesting." Love it! :D
Thank you for all the time invested. You have a knack for explaining
@blackmuzzle You can't just make that blanket statement that "modern cells" have no problem. Read the datasheets for all those Li-Poly cells I showed. 0.5C recommended as standard charge, 1C absolute maximum for "fast charge". Always read the datasheet, cell types and their recommendations are many and varied.
Yes, some are specifically designed for very fast charging. The price you pay will usually be cell life.
I love the passion! So glad you're doing something that you clearly enjoy. I hope that never changes
Those Microchip chargers look quite a good deal for a simple application. thanks for the video Dave.
Love the video, Dave's back! Please keep up the long videos like this, this information, level of detail, and overall information is not easy to get elsewhere. I always feel like I've learned a bit more after watching one of these, please keep it up!
Thank you so much, Dave! I was just thinking that I’ve seen more hours of your videos than anything Hollywood has produced. Lol. Your videos are amazing.
Yes, I totally agree. Dave, Im going to have to start donating with these real world tutorials
@chrisgj198 That's probably a separate blog on it's own, low battery detection and cutout. And that applies to any battery technology really.
Digital camera batteries for popular camera models can be a nice cheap source of ready-packaged batteries. Ditto camcorder ones, typically 7.2V, and also phone batteries.
Just be aware that clones tend to have 10K resistors instead of thermistors...
Awesome. So many things I wanted to know about these batteries and their charging all in one video. Thanks. You've got a friend in Raglan!
Excellent deep dive into Lithium Ion technology!
Dave Jones you are my favorite TH-cam personality. I would follow you anywhere. I only wish that I lived in Australia because then I would ask if I could be shop boy. I would sweep floors, scrub toilets and dismantle electronics for you. I would work for beans and biscuits. I would put a cot in the broom closet and call that home. Is it true that you have a locker at the bottom of the sea where pirates disappear to?
Can you explain please how balance chargers are implemented for simultaneous charging to cells in series?
Component level explanation as shown in this video would be appreciated.
Li-ion and Li-po do have a difference now some Li-Po have higher charging and nominal voltages and they are also also available in large capacity pouches where as li-ion are not and they have higher C ratings much higher compared to Li-Ion
Your blogs are actually brilliant! Please keep up the inspiring and passionate videos!
Fantastic explanation! I worked on power supplies and converters and inverters and find this a really simple but good video explaining the whole thing of Li Ion and charging ckts!
Best Video for understanding Lithuim Ion Charging process. Thanks Alot. Hope you upload Many more such videos dealing with electronics Stuff
Very helpful kickstart to my understanding of lithium Ion charging. Thanks!
@bcsupport Most chip manufacturers have devices designed for more than 1 cell. It's usually an option in the parametric search table. You can't just use a single cell charger chip with those.
That was exactly what I needed. I'm interning at NASA and we're building a prototype lunar lander and rover that powers a Li-Ion/Li-Po off solar panels and we were having trouble charging and some other things.
I have a question though: Why is part 2 of the charging process (I believe it's called trickle charging) necessary? Why can't you just charge using the part 1 method up to 100%? Is it a safety thing, an efficiency thing, or something else?
Thanks
Damn, when I read the discription, I was all like "this is EXACTLY the info I need". Timing couldn't be better, Dave. Going to enjoy this one. :)
@mikeselectricstuff Yep, good point Mike. Could probably do another whole blog on just how to implement the charger IC's. Many of the packages like DFN will have thermal pads on the bottom to help with dissipation. The on-chip die temp monitors usually kick in around 120degC and limit the charge current.
@TheEPROM9 Reminds me about 15 yrs ago I made a portable BBC micro - used the original case with a 320x240 mono EL display in the lid, and PSU full of nicad D-cells and a DC/DC converter. ISTR I had to mod the sound circuit to run without the -ve rail.
"the other kind of coke"
Great info Dave!! cheers for your efforts!!
Dave, thanks for the video. I don't know if you did this because of my post on the forum but it came just in time for me.
Willy Wonka and the Electronic Factory. Joking around aside, this is a very essential video, helped me a lot. Thanks!
It's been 11 years since this video was posted and I'm here because I've never built a charger before and I want to learn how.
I'm here because I want to learn how phone batteries work.
you're amazing thank you allllloooot i was looking for such understanding from a long time
@vaneenbergen I totally forgot to mention the protection circuit built into the bigger cell I was waving around. You really should be using these protected cells, they protect against shorts, over-discharge, over-voltage etc.
With the unprotected cells, you have to take more care, and either add your own protection circuitry and/or design your product properly to ensure the battery is not abused.
Hi, I want to replace my defective laptop battery from a 15 years old PowerBook G4. It's using US18650GR cells which are rated at 2100 mAh. They have no integrated protection circuit. Is it possible to change to XTAR cells rated at 2200 mAh or maybe cells rated at 2500 mAh or 3000 mAh? Will it change the charging process and damage my power supply by using a higher current? Will the protection circuit affect the laptops behaviour? Note: when opening the battery, it seemed like there is a built in temperature sensor for the whole package of 6 cells.
Kind regards
Man it’s crazy that we’ve been using Li-Ion and Li-Poly for 10+ years.
You can't push the cell to higher than 4.2V without damaging it (which might make it go bang). Unless you use a ridiculously low charge rate the cell will reach that voltage before it's 100% full. As the battery charges its voltage gets higher, so to maintain a constant current you have to keep raising your charge voltage. Once you hit the voltage limit you can't raise it any more, so the current starts to reduce and the last few percent takes for ever.
Hey Dave, will this method work for RC lithium ion battery packs?
yo did you find it out? justcurious
@@asificam1 q
Love this guy so much hhhhh "stick with me because this is easy!" lol it's a 40-min-video
@TheCrazyInventor Yes, I totally agree. Dave, Im going to have to start donating with these real world tutorials
Hi, im from the future! Thank you for this retro lithium based batteries tutorial, now days we just use flux capacitors.
well duh, it becomes a cold fusion reactor and generates perpetual motion .
yeah i only use the baterizer when i need to get 1.21 GigaWatt more out of my Mr.Fusion.
you're right.i've had that happening to me in galaxy s7 wich ended up destroying the whole universe so i've hooked up a 1N4148 to gnd to prevent any reverse polarity. i only have 4 alternate dimensions points left on my driving licence.
The 4148 is a silicon diode which is nominally 0.7V drop. You would be far happier using a 1N5817 which is a Schottky that drops 0.2-0.3V.
How many flux capacitors do i need to drive a Death Star and make the battle station fully operational?
He is great! Thank you very much for the great tutorial. To the point and enthusiastic
Dave, we can always rely on you for very solid material, like this one, on Electronic Engineering. Thanks very much. Keep them coming.
Question:
1/ In a charging system, like say on an Electric car (Completely Electric), where REGENERATIVE BERAKING charges the battery, how is this possible? Since, during the REGENERATIVE BERAKING charging process, the battery is still supplying power to operate the various systems on the car (i.e Lights, radio, the Mini fridge with the cold drinks etc). I would be very grateful if you could explain how the battery gets charged during breaking AND if possible, point me to any in-depth detailed reading material, and
2/ Would this explanation apply to other battery types such as Led Acid
3/ Where could I find in-depth detailed information on Lead Acid Battery charging.
Thanks very much.
Is there a video on charging unprotected batteries? Would a charger know when a unprotected battery is full?
If not how do i tell if battery is full or at the end process of CV if time not available on data sheet and cant measure current
Look at his video on charging Li-ion with a bench power supply, That explains the rest.
super later to the lipo battery thing. Thank you for your video and breaking it down for me.
@34:35 The 'Charge Complete' leakage current listed is _negative_ - a.k.a. float charge.
If you could explain the working of the controller in detail, that'd be awesome!
Most newer dell laptops flash the charge light towards the end of charge, I suppose that means constant voltage.
fully charged, bob’s your uncle
Wow. Totally helped me out. Fixed me a wireless speaker but in turn, the charger circuitry died. Now I can fix that bad boy.
"Iudadaniaamericana
The main thing that is reducing the capacity is the discharge rate. The difference between 1C and 2C discharge is about 3% for 300 cycles. Of course, this differs between batteries also.
@vaneenbergen Lithium Ion Polymer are more robust than Lithium Ion. But if you are really concerned, try LiFePo4 as @Pook365 said, they are much safer and won't go exothermic.
Maximum charging voltage for LiFePo4 cells is 3.6V, correct me if I'm wrong.
4.2
Dennis Sewell
No 3.6V they are not lithium though, Iron phosphate.
Hi Dave, I'm not fully agree about the amount of energy accumulated since the voltage reaches 4.2v and the current starts to fall. I have bought an Icharger 206B and made some experiments with the three types of balance modes it brings. I have logg all the charging proccess data and I would like to share it with you because I know you will get more information about them than me and maybe make another intersting video. If you are interested in, please let me know how to send you the data. The software I am using to see the data is LogView Studio.
try 3 battery packs in circulation on samba, keeping 1 pack for the load 1 charged and waiting or charging and 1 on charge , this way there's no charging and discharging simultaneously
All Lithium ion polymer batteries are lithium ion batteries, but not all lithium ion batteries are lithium polymer.
Those which are not "polymer" are the ones which catch on fire because the electrolyte is so flammable. In polymer electrolyte batteries, the electrolyte is bound in the polymer.
Oh, I don't mind "long" video's like this. Please don't make them shorter. I'd like to have all the info on a particular subject explained to me in one go. I don't want all that information crammed in 10 minutes, or something. I also don't like video's that just explain the basics of some concept really fast. That's why I like your video's: long and detailed information.
Going to have a look at a supplier for these batteries and for their charger ICs. Very useful for my next project. :)
@blackmuzzle Yes, the RC packs are usually designed specifically for high charge/discharge rates, to drive motors and the like. They have different requirements and specs to regular cells that are designed for your ordinary electronic gadgets. Totally different ball game, and one where temperature monitors and safety timers are much more important.
Hey Dave, why don't you make a video about small photovoltaic cells, MPPT and such
3.7 is the nominal voltage.
The charging voltage is either 4.1 or 4.2, if you don't know be safe and keep 4.1 ;)
Can you please talk a little bit about battery protection circuits and how to protect the battery with MCP73831 + LDO configuration against under voltage discharge (over discharge).
Lithium polymer is different to a standard lithium ion battery. Li ion polymer has a plastic electrolyte, while lithium ion batteries have a liquid electrolyte.
I've seen a lot of manufacturers state the "full" current as .03C, or 3% of the batteries A rating, so remember to check that before charging one. Don't just go with 10% as a universal rule.
its better to use a higher value. it doesnt really matter if your value is a little higher. unless you need that 1% more charge on it. you won't get more then a few % more amps toward the max capacity if you use 3% instead. if you use 3% even though your cell is 5% it'll never stop charging(which is bad). if you use 10% instead of 3% it'll just a stop a little sooner. and its not charging very fast at the last few percents anyway since the amp's already dropped all the way down. if you set it to 10% it'll finish charging a lot faster(not to 100% however) for a little less capacity.
What it the best way to charge Lithium-ion batterers to maintain the life of the battery in a device like the 7 inch Kindle Fire tablet? By battery life, I mean the life of the battery before it will needs replacement.
Some say it should be completely discharge about once a month. However, I also heard that is only valid for the old nickel-cadmium batteries.
Amazing Video! Thank you, for helping to write my tesis with your videos.
Thank u so much.This is a great tutorial.This solved all my problems about Li-ion/Li-po battery charging.
As usual, very informative Dave. Thanks.
Presuming it’s fine for the alternator, can you use an alternator directly as a charger for big lifepo4 packs? It puts out a Constant voltage of 14.6. And current is limited to 100 amps. It costs a lot to get a 100amp ic
. I also found the following when I googed:
"For proper reporting of the battery’s state of charge, be sure to go through at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down)."
To me, the above means for proper reporting of the how much charge is left in the battery, not to make the battery last longer before it need replacement. Am I correct?
awesome vid! i was woundering is it possible to charge li pols off a solar panel and what kind of electronics would be involved. thanks
Nice video, very educational :)
I'm building a charger using a MCP73833. The datasheet mentioned a design with a mosfet and a Schottky diode to isolate the load behind the charger. This negates the (possible) issue of the system connected to the battery from being affected when the battery is charged.
All circuit diagrams are super simple for this guy!😂
thanks Dave! that was pretty easy.
Some say there is no problem leaving the charger connected, even when in use, the charger regulator in the device will protect the battery from being over charged. Is this true?
Also, will the device like a Kindle Fire use the charger's for power and not the battery, thus extending the live of the battery before it needs replacement?
My IMax charger has a 3.6V setting for LiIon and 3.7V for LiPo, so surely there is a difference?
I have a 3 (in parallele) cell Li-ion batt from sparkfun (google finds them quickly) and Im having a lot of trouble designing a charger for them because all of the Li-ion charger IC i find specify the they only charge One cell batteries but Im not sure if they refer to one cell in series or parralel? thanx in advance for any help.
If they are truly in parallel, then this would be defined as "One cell".
For this case, the current ratings for the charging circuitry would be three times that of a single individual cell.
However, the advertised specs for the whole battery may be rated for all three in parallel already.
redrok
Alot of youtube videos shows how to build batterypacks and how to charge them. One thing I don't find an answer on is: If I build my own charger for a batterypack, should I treat the entire batterypack as 1 large battery, OR, shall I treat each battery in the pack as individuals, and adjust my charging accordingly for each individual battery? :)
@EEVblog Where did you get that one? Powerstream only has the protection optional.
very informative.......for my phd work.....thank you for this wonderful video
Is the Charge Protection built into those tiny Li-Po cells, usually covered by yellow tape, the same as the Battery Charging Chip you talked about? As in, if my Li-Po cell has built-in Charge Protection circuitry, can I just connect it straight to a 4.2V power supply and expect it to charge correctly on its own? (You may have mentioned this in the video, in which case I missed it...)
@vaneenbergen
When used properly their dangers although real are very unlikely to ever be encountered. You could always try LiFePo4 batteries instead as they are more or less safe. IC's are available to charge those from Microchip (I presume other ppl as well) I've used the MCP73X23 but they do a couple of others to.
how to voltage decrease of lithium ion cell by electronic circuit 3.6v to 1.5 v
@bcsupport
You can also get IC's for 2S (the MCP73842 for instance). I've no idea past that as that is the highest I've had a use for :)
Hello, your demonstration is just perfect (as others) I am trying to "revive" LIIon batteries for portable vacuum cleaners, they where not used but they are old now (exposition models)
I am not sure, if I plug my CC CV alim directly on the battery elements, may I use for instance 20% of the total voltage and 10% of the charging amp ? I tried on one cell as on the whole group and I see no amps asked by the batteries, nothing happens, SO there is no charging at all I suppose ? Thank you and sorry for the may be stupid question.
Haha I had to google "Bob's your uncle". Great stuff!
Hi, thanks for this useful video.
I have a question about LiPo chargers. What would is the difference between a normal LiPo Charger, for example, four cells, and a Balanced LiPo Charger for four cells.
I mean, is there any difference for the lifespan of the cells?
During the CV phase of charging, an exponentially falling current is still going inside the battery so why doesn't the voltage across battery increase during that phase?
Because the energy is being consumed in the internal resistance of the battery at almost the same rate.
33:54 I don't think it's actually that high with respect to your diagram. The 20% in your diagram was with respect to current. Your precondition voltage showed 2.8V which is about 67%--pretty much exactly what the datasheet shows.
Could you please clarify this for a newbie?
Let's say I have a simple 150 USD "linear" power supply. And set it up at 0.10C and 4.2Volts. The supply will keep a constant current of 0.1C until the voltage reaches 4.2V and then will go into c.v. mode until the current drops to almost nothing and then I have to disconnect the battery. Exactly at what point of this theoretical procedure will reality deviate due to thermal limiting on the power supply?
Also, are linear PSs ok for this job?