244. Electric Narrowboats: the future for our canals?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ค. 2021
- At the end of May 2021, I attended a narrowboat trials day arranged by boat builder Ortomarine. Starting on the River Severn and going up the Droitwich canals, eight boats using a variety of power plants would have their fuel, efficiency and any solar input measured and compared. This video summarises what happened and the results.
Update 31/10/21 - they’ve finally (!) released the event report. See www.ortomarine.co.uk/wp-conte...
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Ortomarine:
www.ortomarine.co.uk
Hybrid Marine:
www.hybridmarine.co.uk
More details about two of the serial hybrid boats can be found here:-
Perseverance: www.perseverancenb.com/
Old Nick: thesumpnersafloat.com/
Other videos I’ve done about electric boats:
Silent Running: • 69. A hybrid diesel-el...
Positive Charge: • 168. Electric narrowbo...
Hire Purpose: • 169. Electric narrowbo...
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At last, the final report has been released! See www.ortomarine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Ortomarine-Narrowboat-Trial-Final-Report.pdf
whats to stop you being attacked by robbers at night or stealing your whole boat
Very interesting, thank you! I like it very much that the results are presented in clear terms at front.
@@iftikharhussain4715 The question "what's to stop" implies that is the norm. Most boaters are cautious about where they stop for the night. The only real problem I've seen in narrowboat videos from UK are groups of unruly youths who harass. And the occasional nighttime theft who dont want to be discovered usually. But that isn't even a monthly or probably not even yearly problem for UK boaters.
What country are you in? Maybe you're thinking canal bandits are everywhere like bandits are everywhere in other regions of the world.
It would be nice to have seen what it looks like inside the boats and the kind of room they have.
@Kurt C That was totally not the point of the video. This was not a look at the boat layouts, it was focusing on the trials day and the electric engines vs diesel.
Canal boats seem like a great idea for solar electric. They don't need to go fast. They don't need to go far. They have plenty of surface area for panels and plenty of space for batteries which can even act as ballast. And if moorings have power outlets then you could even top up if you had to, or just moor and charge from the sun.
This is the most straight to the point and positive reply on here......and technically correct! Thanks
I am not a scientist nor am I a mathematician.
If we were solely talking boats here I don't think the conversation would be taking place plus I don't totally believe the combustion engine is really the deal breaker. I just feel this is another Neon/Halogen moment where we were all told to buy it but they already knew Led was the future.
I am intelligent enough to know that if we sit back and do nothing the Earth will take care of itself, we are already witnessing that where icbergs are breaking off and glaciers calving so as to cool down its oceans, ( are you with me ). The Earth has adjusted and evolved since the beginning I don't ned to tell you this but I think there is a better way forward than electricity I'm not sure what but I am sure Tesla and others has to get back their input first.
Having lived on a 60ft narrowboat I would have gladly traded the diesel engine for solar panels and a leccy motor.
@@goldielocks2621 I'm afraid that view isn't really supported by science. While the Earth does cycle in temperature naturally (e.g., the ice ages), we are out of sync for the Earth to be warming up this quickly naturally, and from things such as ice core samples, we can see that the Earth has never warmed up this quickly either.
Very informative thank you
as an electrical engineer considering buying and living on a narrowboat, I found this video incredibly interesting. It's also making me consider 'steering' my career in the direction of canal boat and EV propulsion installation. Thank you!
I think maybe the only thing lacking are charging stations. If the canal trust and marinas would install fast charging at water/sanitation stops the adoption of all electric could happen at a much faster pace.
I would GLADLY pay a premium for the quiet and zero fumes you get from an electric boat.
That is an absolute NO BRAINER !
Yes but don’t you dare tell the rest of us by building a new boat, you are using less energy and doing less harm than restoring an old one. It is a huge big ugly lie, whether you admit it to Yourself or not. And you are just making it someone else’s problem, where rare Earth magnets are extracted. Or the steel is made
@@sre331l diesel was the answer to petrol engines...bringing they're own problems..now it's batteries mined in places where people are treated appallingly....we care how our coffee arrives in our homes and turn a blind eye to kids being used to mine lithium.....
@@alanleahy2047 not to forget the destruction caused during the mining of lithium, and the fact these types of batteries are useless when worn out and don't degrade very quickly.
Delightful. Electric propulsion was perfect for something already a wonderful way to travel, made for these wonderful boats.
Electric propulsion seems to actually be very well suited to narrowboating in principle. Weight isn't really a concern so the battery can be quite large if need be. Lots of roof surface area for solar, a steady slow pace throughout with little sudden peaks of powers needed, and a constant vicinity to infrastructure in the rare case of running out of power.
There's also a lot less risk, if the battery explodes as newer tech lithium batteries can do, or you get into a crash, you're on a river... You don't need 24 hours of the fire service pumping water over it to cool the lithium fire down and stop a hole being melted in the road, like with electric car accidents.
If you run out of power just tie up the boat for a few hours and it'll recharge enough even on overcast days.
Weight can't be ignored and neither can the current in particular on Rivers or coastal waterways. It would not be wise to depend completely on electric power just yet I think.
@@IanZamojc ever tried using solar power in the UK in winter? I have 800w on my boat roof and the output in winter is pitiful.
@@fireman-phil7307 Just take a generator for the rare times you need it. Its essnetially a hybrid. My home solar still output 1.5kw of electricity on a rainly cloudy day yesterdy btw....
It just dawned on me why narrowboats are, at least for me, so much more beautiful than caravans or sailboats. It's the speed. Just puttering along at a few miles an hour, relaxing, taking in the sights and senses. Heck if I could drive a convertible camper at 3 miles an hour across the U.S. on a special scenic, meandering road... well I'd be totally down for that.
It's the Art of the 'Saunter'. Many people just can't do it. An ex GF of mine, a hiker, could not manage a saunter along a riverbank for more than 30 seconds before she was itching to speed up. Saunters don't care about the clock. A true saunter can take ten minutes to cover 100 yards, with 'stops of appreciation' as you pass interesting things. Drove her crazy!
But try skippering one on a rainy day and having to get somewhere by a time. Maybe for work next day, seams the fun goes out of it until the next sunny day.
Spent years boat and it seams the UK's weather has it organised to rain, when ever we came to moor up.
PS I remember driving a convertible through the North California Red Woods, it was great and I even paid a dollar to drive through a Red Wood Tree. This was back in the 1980 when Pan Am did Fly Drive Holidays.
@@terencejay8845 both my wife and daughter are fast walkers, always walking slightly ahead of me - even when I speed up! I walk fast when I need to, but otherwise I want to enjoy the 'journey'. Often, when I get home from a walk along the same route they would have taken earlier, I ask if they saw this or that, and they rarely have.
Must be fantastic to wind down so easily in such lovely surroundings.
This video is a perfect example of why we can't let David quit vlogging cold turkey. I mean, who else is going to bring this much-needed attention to the huffing and puffing of displaced swans (not to mention the rowers)? And how can you not view sneaking up on ducklings and fishermen as a plus?
"Shhhhh, see that duck up there? We're going to sneak up on it and blow the horn real loud. That never gets old."
Seriously, it really does seem like a diesel-electric hybrid is the smartest solution out there (especially if you're running said diesel on used cooking oil). Maybe one day the tech will be available where you could continuously cruise on solar power alone, but if you have to sit and charge for days after cruising for only a few hours that day isn't likely to be anytime soon.
Running the diesel on used cooking oil ??? L.O.L. tried that in my 4 WD, folks complained of the fish chips smell making them hungry.
@@itchyvet 😆 The last trip I made in the Kenworth before leaving the trucking gig was with biodiesel. That turbo Cummins ran just fine. I wish it did smell like fish & chips, but alas it was the same diesel stink.
@@itchyvet now I'm hungry for fish and chips just because you said that.
But in all fairness I should point out that I'm never really NOT in the mood for fish and chips, so there's that...
They just need to put fast chargers outside of the locks, you can charge while you're waiting for your turn
im not a fan of electric motors in general but this... the whole cruising on the canal in complete silence apart from what's around in nature would legit be one of the best things ever
I’m the biggest fan of electric motors, silently and efficient;y powering the modern world around us!
What a breathe of fresh air this video is
Certainly quiet air...
Perfect for narrowboats, enjoying nature in silence, listening to the birds and the wind in the trees :o) Lovely.
Maybe people like rattling of diesel engines. I do...
@Agent Smith You don't need 3 phase; just a normal household socket would be fine to charge a narrowboat overnight. And no, there aren't any of those other than at marinas but that's why the current generation of electric boats have solar and onboard generators.
@Agent Smith Every marina I've ever been to has a 16A, 240V hookup at the end of every single pontoon for every single boat. So multiple boats could certainly charge overnight.
As for solar, it's much more than a trickle charge as this video demonstrates. Even on this rainy day, one of the narrowboats made 2.9kW on a journey requiring 10kW so, as explained in the commentary, it would require another two similar days without motion to generate the balance of power used. The battery bank doesn't need to recharge from empty to full, just to fill up whatever was used on the last journey or needed for the next.
But yes, outside summer this would take longer hence why all the boats have generators - but it is much more efficient to use a generator working at optimal efficiency than a diesel motor pushing a boat at canal speeds.
I went on a canal boat holiday once, the only thing to spoil it was the noise of the engine, which, after a while, began to reverberate in my skull. Electric seems the way to go.
The ambient sounds of birds chirping and waves lapping against the shore while you navigate the canal is quite the experience.
If I had a narrowboat I would prefer the electric route for the pure pleasure of silence and listening to nature sounds and to sneak up on the Piano Boat whilst piano is being played.
It's the perfect application for hybrids! I expect that most boats spend more days parked than moving, so lots of time to charge the batteries. And when docked for long periods, no gas purchases.
I’ve been rewatching/listening a lot of your old videos waiting for your new video to drop. Stay safe buddy
As an American, it's so interesting to see these narrow "canals" and manual hand operated locks. I'd love to visit the UK one day ^_^
Hi there Bud ! -You OK fella I have been looking into your American Canals ? - Believe it or not ?
- Linking the Big Lakes together - Gotta say that I cannot believe the size of some your Canals comparing them with our Canals - Its like your freeways being compared with our 'A' Roads ? - So wide - One Day I would love to travel your canals One day !
Love the loop system too !
All the Very Best S.B. ( Just up the Road from the Leeds Liverpool Canal) British Isles
Instead of the news I really enjoy waking up with one of your videos. Relaxing and joyful. Thank you.
Thank you. Glad you enjoy them :-)
The electric boats will get to move on BOTH sunny days in English summer.
Hahahaha true
:DDDD
😊😊😊 Tee-Hee!
Don't know if you noticed, but we're getting a lot of sunny days in recent years, and certainly this year. At least in the Midlands.
@@christinerigden1403 If you want more sunny days, burn more coal........ why go to the tropics, when you can bring the tropics to you?.......
I can well imagine that cruising through a narrow tunnel and not being choked by diesel fumes would be a definite plus.
And down in the locks too!
Absolutely
@@jaqui0806 Down in the locks would be bad enough it's true, but you can climb out of a lock.
Without doubt the most interesting canal boat video I've seen. I must compliment David John on this, a beautifully composed and edited piece of work. If I have a boat built it will most definitely be mainly solar electric with a small diesel backup. Cruising quietly must be delightful
Glad you enjoyed it!
It's the perfect application for hybrids! I expect that most boats spend more days parked than moving, so lots of time to charge the batteries. And when docked for long periods, no gas purchases.
True!
One problem - sun - it’s the UK - there is no sun.
@@rupert5390 still quite bright even when overcast, and most boaters aren't really power users anyway.
Very interesting here in Germany on the resivior Edersee you can only use electric motors. Have a lovely evening.
"Episode 245 - Shopping for electric narrowboats" 😂
I was thinking the same lol.
Electric just seems so much better for narrowboats
@@radders261 That's three of us! What a lovely way to travel ~ no other word for it!
I agree, so long as there is adequate space for a good solar array on top, electric just makes sense, I don't see it working nearly as well on almost any other boat design, but for narrow boas, electric is the obvious choice for me.
yes, when we bought our first narrowboat with a much loved lister engine, it was to noisy on the back deck to enjoy the peaceful tranquil setting that you travel through. Electric all the way.
You are right David the cruising vlogs has been done to death and these little docuvlogs are excellent and so varied. I’ve watched all yours since beginning and when I fancy a cruising blog I just jump back a year or five to you back catalogue 👍 keep it up 👍
I love cruising vlogs as they are so relaxing.
It's wild to think that these 'modern' versions are using the same setup that German u boats in WWII at the turn of last century were using.
Another stellar piece of reportage (to say nothing of post production)! Thanks very much.
Thank you!
Wow.. it was the tunnel section in the video that really shows ow quiet they can be.
Agreed!
A family member works for BP's electric charging arm.
I asked if there would be any interest from BP to install charging points on canals, where there was easy access to high voltage supplies. My thinking being that a lot of canal runs alongside railways.
His answer was "not a chance". His reason being, there was no money in it. You can only make money from charging of it's "attached" to a retail outlet that will help you spend money while you wait!
Shame ☹️
For myself, if I cruise for 3hrs in a day I’ve had quite a long days travel. I may then haul up for 2 weeks. The greatest benefit of electric then kicks in because I would then have a massive battery and electrical generation capability. Travelling is probably less important to me than most with living off grid being the most important part of narrow boating.
I know you said this was not a "scientific" survey but this looked like a very comprehensive comparison of the different propulsion systems. A terrific effort by all concerned.
Perhaps not scientific, but a valuable comparison under real-world conditions. These are results that current and future boat owners can understand and use.
I’d say the approach was quite scientiffic. However, for an officially recognized study, you’d need more boats and they’d have to do the same stretch of river/canal several times. Perhaps even with different helmspeople. As it is, you have an indication. What I just described there would amount to statistical verification.
I would love it of someone with a hybrid would film a very long video of a trip up the canals with all the sights and sounds....and no music..just the sounds of water rushing into the locks, the wash from the boat, birds singing, swans demanding, perhaps a hello from a passer-by .
And the odd intriguing snatch of conversation - did I hear right that someone has got something either for or against Teesside University? (It's the aural equivalent of curtain twitching.)
There was something a few years ago, from the series of 'slow TV' programmes. 2 hours on the K&A at the Bristol end, filmed from the bow of a fairly quiet boat. No music or commentary, apart from the occasional informative phrase printed on screen, so you could hear the wildlife, the passing boats, people's conversations, etc. (Sadly, no longer available :-( www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05t7kc1)
"Barely a burble" from the generator. Excellent! That's what I needed to know.
I run my 5m launch on electric. Everything a narrowboat isn't - deep V hull with concrete ballast (for rough water), never fitted out the cabin. Strictly day trips. Lives on a trailer and is charged off domestic mains at the end of the day. However many passengers comment that it's quiet - you hear the sound of the water slapping against the hull instead of the roar of an engine. No fumes. One thing I notice is the fumes when someone with a 2 stroke outboard comes near. On my boat, I don't get any extra speed putting more than about 2.8kw into the motor. I just draw more power making bigger waves. I converted the boat when the 2 cylinder, 2 stoke engine was unrepairable after years of storage at my father's place.
Wasn't the Broads Authority pushing electric boating quite hard for several years? - providing charging facilities at mooring places ?. How's that working in practice?. One thing I remember from our 4-day hire on the Broads was the smell of diesel through the boat. I would have lept at an electric option, but they didn't offer such things back then.
I can charge our electric car on a 13amp socket anywhere in the UK, so if I visit my parents (who sadly don't have an electric car) then I can plug in and by the morning I have full 'tank'. Narrow boats should be really well suited to this 'slow' charge approach, so there really doesn't need to be the infrastructure changes that have been needed to build 'Rapid' chargers for cars in the UK.
@@videogalore
Don't forget that if every narrowboater changes to electric...
there will have to be more charge points, either rapid charge or slower chargers...
to cope with "everyone"...
Using a huge battery on shore, slowly charged off-peak or by solar array, to then rapidly charge multiple boats over the normal day...
may give the best of both worlds....
@@videogalore I agree. From the video they seemed to do the whole trip on 10kwh, a granny charger (13amp socket restricted to 10amp) would charge that in 4 hours.
I was just rewatching your videos and wondering “when will a new video be posted” when lo and behold a new crusing the cut video! My day just got much better!
Crushing the cut? Poor canals! Stop molesting them! - SCNR! Still, you aren't wrong, have been re-watching older vids (including Van-Videos on Vandemonium!) and was waiting for a new one, too!
@@dreamingflurry2729 yeah I watch vandeminum too. I just started watching the van videos recently
I always did think that if I were to go "narrow boating" that the engine noise would drive me crazier than I already am. Loved the video.
David, I live vicariously through you. Brining in in the USA, makes It even more so . If I could be there would make my life better. Your videos are making my life better. Thank you for all that you do.
Thank you
I bought mine fully converted by a fantastic team in the Bristol area. The instant power you get makes 62 foot narrow boat feel like a 35 footer.
Love that the intro is quiet rather than the putt-putt of the engine because, well, electric motor. Nice touch.
Thanks! 👍
If I had a electric narrowboat
I would put in a loudspeaker system to get that Ye Olde Timey PuttPutt engine sound
here on the Burgundy Canal, they used an electric tug boat to clear a very long tunnel. it entered service in... 1893. Yes, the century is correct. it got its energy from an hydroelectric station.
so electric boats are not that new. quite the contrary, in fact : )
Your title 'all on your bike ', very funny 👍
We are building an electric boat currently will be showcasing it at crick this year
As you build boats, I have always wondered why water can't be taken from the canal and filtered? They have brilliant filtration systems on American Motor Homes and can plug in to very dirty water off grid if needs be?....
@ Fireman-Phil There are such systems and I know of one narrowboat with it but they take up valuable space and aren't really necessary as there are plenty of water points around the network.
@@fireman-phil7307read the comment below 👍
Will you be coming to crick this year
@@fireman-phil7307 I wouldn't want to drink canal water, filtered or not! There's more in there than just weed and old tyres... Back in the 60s, we had a family camping holiday following the Thames to its source, and we drank the river water at each camping site - both filtering it and adding a tablet of some sort(?) to purify it. It was horrible! Even in tea and stews you could taste it. The holiday had to be abandoned half way through when my sister was taken ill and the hospital told us it was pnumonia! I don't think this was actually connected to drinking the river water, but it was the only time I've been glad to go home early from a holiday!
Ok I must say really good documentary styled videography and narration. I felt i was watching a David Attenborough styled picturisation and narration.
Just a quick observation before I watch the episode ... you are absolutely flying!
Grand pianos ... scooping the TV it seems.
And now on that research cruise!
Well done you!
Nice.
Very interesting.
If you're ever in the Berchtesgaden area, take a trip on the Königsee out to the monastery at Skt Bartholomae.
The fleet of water buses is all electric. Superbly quiet even with 40 odd passengers on board.
Afik these are all traditional, lead acid charged overnight from the mains, just like the old milk floats.
So you're preaching to the converted here.
Why are the passengers quiet?
Have ridden those multiple times. Never got to hear the canon fire, but only the trumpet being played out in the middle. Anything other than electric would ruin the setting.
@@grancito2 awestruck
Great video. We have 8 panels on our house providing 2.2 kilowatts and they cover about half our electric use. Most of the boats have around 12 panels.
Excellent vlog David, very interesting. I like the idea of quiet cruising, this is definitely the future 👍
Hi David, it was me who saw at Rugby boat sales the other day. ( Tiger Lilly) Shame Bumble wasn't about ( James' little dog).
However on with the task in hand.
I have admired hybrid boats, and for a new boat would be the way to go.
What would be very useful is an easily retro fitted setup. For those who have a serviceable engine.
It would allow more older boats to go greener, space could be found for a lithium battery pack to supplement electrical capacity.
Surely there's a market for such a system.
Yes, I was miffed not to meet the dog too! Nice to see you.
There are places around for DIY electric car conversions, so I guess they would be well aligned with the Q&A's - zero-ev.co.uk/
David, Thank you for creating this video. It is a good bit of history on what is to come and what will be.
You are very welcome
The prospect of almost silent canal boating is VERY appealing, even if it costs more up front. The tranquility of canals in the countryside is spoiled by diesel engines.
when I started driving my electric car, I would get halfway to work when I realized I forgot to turn on the music and I was enjoying the silence! I bet the ducks are the loudest thing in the canal
The loudest thing on the canal becomes other boats. It's quite useful on the Severn when everything is overtaking you.
I'm following your, and other narrowboaters, vlogs a few years now. Of course I've seen everything! But you make me wrong again! This was an absolute new angel of the narrowboating. Whats next? I'll wait and see.
As someone who is designing two electric narrowboats this video is GOLDEN. My own independant assesment seems bang on with the serial hybrids both in generator and battery sizes. Having a small battery bank shows its shortcomings in Perseverance and the need to have huge capacity where you can only us 50% of the storarge in lead acid tech. Ours will have 48v 400Ah Lifepo4 in one boat with basic systems and 800 in one with a high volume of AC services. It is also comforting in seeing a 10kW motor is enough for most scenarios.
One suprise was the small amout of solar on (relatively) low power flexible panels. On a river with less than 2kW installed solar, floating the driving load, even on the sunniest of days, on a river,seems extremely optimistic. On the day you could see the drain on your control panel shot.
Again, David has shown his vidoeo journolistic chops. Well thought out and well produced.
I don't know if you were aware of this but here's a tip I found from german gearheads into electric bikes; Lithium batteries can actually be REUSED.
and based on that you can assemble your own perfectly good second life battery at fraction of the cost of a new one. we're talking 50-100€ instead of 800-1000€ for new one (prices for electric bike battery pack).
What you do is basically source throwaway battery packs (from recycling yards and such, in most cases they just dispose of lithium batteries as recycling isnt economically feasable), you get them cheap like 0.25€ per battery (not pack). then you open them up to expose individual lithium batteries, you test them with a voltmeter. some 50% are gonna be goosed, but the other 50% are gonna be good. then you basically spot-weld or splice them together into a new pack. you build a charge controller - and that's it!
Anyways hope that helps!
"On a river with less than 2kW installed solar, floating the driving load [...] seems extremely optimistic" Didn't quite get what you mean here: Are you saying a larger pack lets you store up charge from the grid rather than relying entirely on solar during the day? Or is this some electrical terminology I'm not familiar with?
Also, what made you go for Lithium Iron over Ion? Cost, or safety concerns?
The energy consumed was the big tell. Electric is 90% more efficient That's a big difference. Don't get me wrong you'd need either a MASSIVE battery system or a small genset. I'd be curious what something like the honda inverter 2kw genset would do. Pipe it in similar to the hybrid system and it would be nearly silent, and would consume a lot less fuel. As always, fantastic video!
not 90 % but 900 %
I fully understand the electric idea, but there's something about the noise of a diesel engine whilst going along that I love. Providing the boat isn't rattling along with it :) Great video.
You can download it as a mp3 file.😉
The beauty of these vessels is a bit of the noise. !!!!!
Especially with the old, ineffiecient slow speed engines
Hi David, back safe and sound from having your jaunt on the Wash. I loved the video of the Steinway grand piano on the wide beam in London.
My boat is a hybrid. Beta 43 Diesel engine with an electric engine, all expertly put together by Hybrid Marine. I have 17 hours of battery power to use as “Go Juice”, so if my Diesel engine fails I can navigate to a safe haven. Well, that’s the theory. My boat was built in 2014. People can’t hear me coming when I use the electric (and most of them say the Diesel engine is ultra quiet and difficult to hear).
Stay Safe!
Ah, cheers - good to hear input from existing hybrid boat owners, thank you.
Well with a proper muffler IC engines can get really really quiet, so much that most of the noise you hear from a car while revving low is the wheels rolling on the asphalt and luxury cars add artificial noise so the engine sounds powerful instead of being almost absent.
Partly due to canals being quieter than the road and that a good number of folk find the puttering of the engine pleasant, I believe narrowboats both sound louder because they stand out more and manufacturers don't really aim to eliminate the noise entirely because in designing the muffler they wanted to preserve some engine noise.
The sound of the water from the propeller of the electric motor is actually very pleasant.
They absolutely are the future of canal craft. The CRT needs to make plans about laying cables for charging points ASAP. Electric motors and heavy batteries are ridiculous in cars, but ideally suited for big, slow boats. The fact that you can have a roof covered in panels to charge them is a considerable bonus. To return to the days of silent cruising would be a wonderful benefit- although the odd classic Diesel engine putting around would be a nice sight.
Why not add in the occasional true steamer burning coal for the boiler?
The CRT can barely afford to do reactive maintenance. The cost of electrifying the canals would be hundreds of millions of pounds, and swallow up decades of their entire budget. Remember too that most boats on the canals are probably twenty plus years old, and few are used more than a few weeks a year - do you seriously think that people would be prepared to spend the thousands required to convert their boats en mass?
@@spencerwilton5831 I think you dramatically over-estimate the cost. You don't need high-power lines to charge boats, a typical domestic socket will do just fine - those can be installed very cheaply by any electrician (electric is available almost everywhere anyways). There is no need for fancy chargers too - just put the socket into a box with a CRT lock on it. Payment could be as simple as billing a surcharge to your annual CRT fees if you own an electric boat.
Yes. As an electric car owner I just do not see why the boats cannot use car batteries and motors. If the boats use 2KWh and they have a 42 (effective) KWh battery that would give the boat 20 hours of cruising. Overnight mooring points would only need 7KWh chargers and lunch stops could have rapid DC chargers which could completely recharge a boat whilst the crew are eating lunch. Maybe boats could even use two depleted car batteries because weight would not be such an issue. One would have to keep the water away from the systems though.
let's just finish the thought with "dedicating more space to batteries and solar panels than to a diesel engine and fuel sounds more beneficial than staying diesel-powered entirely with electricity reserved exclusively to appliances and an alternator placed as a second thought"
Wonderful episode. ElectrifyingTheCut is indeed the future with maximized solar, and a large battery bank as they become cheaper. What really surprised me is the energy efficiency of the serial hybrids compared to the diesels, 1/10th! I love this style of content.
And then there is the benefit of no diesel pong.
Thank you!
A diesel engine should get like 30% efficiency but that is at their most fuel efficient rpm, on the canals they are (mostly) just running at tickover which is apparently very inefficient.
Not surprising the hybrids are more efficient. The diesel doesn't need to run all the time and when it does run, it is governed to run at its absolute best speed and load. The mechanical transmissions have the engine running at less than the most efficient speeds a lot of the time.
@@MatthewGeier The point you make about running the Diesel engine under optimum conditions is the crux of the whole matter. Even allowing for Ohmic losses in the electrical parts, the net efficiency has to be higher than that of a purely Diesel system. Add in the silence when running on battery + solar and the combination is pretty much ideal.
I have just found this video. Electric combined with solar is a brilliant idea. I’m sure it will be the way to go for most narrow boats in the not too distant future. I think that the sound of quiet cruising would be pure magic.
Be long way off range for one. Battery just not that good
The problem is it requires a lot of solar to do this unless you want to sit in one place for five days while you’re waiting to recharge because it is cloudy…..Now solar Using conjunction with either parallel or a hybrid that’s a different story
@@jimmunro4649 In 2021 you can already get solar panels the same size as seen in the video that produce 460 watts instead of the 120 shown, efficiency has massively ramped up especially with the new LG Neon - Version 2 panels. Each solar boat had 12 panels, so 12x460 watts peak efficiency is a lot of electricity (5.52 kW/h), the biggest issue would be storing it at that point.
Thank you, David. As we move to electric propulsion for vehicles running on land, it's natural that watercraft also make the change. The canal system was built to take advantage of the efficiency of watercraft (large loads moved by one horse) so electric boats are a natural evolution. It's interesting the boats moved by oars were far noisier - not only splashing but grunting and shouting - than the electric narrowboats.
I was just thinking yesterday (whilst nipping in and out of my polytunnel) how glad you must be at deciding not to continue with your regular boating vlogs. This heat, and the solo handling of the lock gates would have been a killer. Carry on being careful David.
Well done David! I said it before but I will say it again, the new format you are using to create content is wonderful. Granted I would watch you sort sunflower seeds from smallest to largest but I appreciate the truly interesting content.
Yes, but what would he do when one seed is fatter, but the other is longer.... so the drama!
@@princezzpuffypants6287 even more reason to watch David! ;)
Following the propulsion progression of the canals and canal boats, it has been horses and mules, steam engines, diesel and gas engines, now electric motors. From the audio on the video, it reminded me of a sailboat under sail and the noise was the bow cutting through the water. I have been on a sternwheel steamboat that the spent steam was directed through a condenser to reuse most of the water boiled in the boiler and the noise was mostly the paddles striking the water and the slight vibration of the paddles striking the water unless the whistle or calliope was being played.
Fascinating vlog again! Totally amazing to listen to the sounds of nature instead of a diesel engine. It enhances the experience, for sure. I totally love your vlogs.
This is a lovely lifestyle and the electric motors only enhances the experience by allowing you to hear everything in nature and not the engine. I have a deep respect and appreciation for European engineering. But what they’ve created hear out of it historical means of transportation is one of the most beautiful experiences you could get without having to buy a 30 million Dollar yacht.
And, talking of diesels, my inner-nerd always pops out when people talk of diesels running on "other" fuels. The diesel engine is named after its inventor, not the fuel. It was designed to run on almost any fuel - that was the whole point of it, it wasn't dependent on highly refined oil. After its invention, the fuel manufacturers developed a fuel designed specifically for the diesel (and called it 'diesel' fuel). So no one should be surprised that a 'diesel' can run on, for instance, waste cooking oil. The real question is why don't we do this a lot more? Why do we waste valuable fossil fuel, and create all that CO2, when we don't have to??
It's mostly a matter of volume. The quantity of waste cooling oil produced per day does not come close to the volume of diesel fuel consumed. Even the busiest restraint is unlikely to produce more than 5-10 gallons of waste vegetable oil per day, but a large truck can burn several times that in the same day.
Another potential fossil fuel replacement is Fischer-Tropse (sp?) Diesel, which is made from wood waste such as logging slash. Germany had some commercial scale facilities producing it a decade ago, but I have no idea where the idea went.
Exactly like he said taxes in the US in some states it is illegal to run a diesel on anything except diesel fuel…… for instance if you can get used fryer oil for free they are not collecting taxes on it
There is not enough used cooking oil, for bio diesel, and it is more expensive than diesel, when you can find it. It also has a lower calorific value, like alcohol compared to petrol, so you use much more. You don't win unless you get free cooking oil, from a place near you, and you use the methanol method for the home conversion. The methanol is expensive, and you need a contact in the group who race cars to buy it. The conversion process is time consuming, and tanks, filters and a separator need to be bought or made. Like brewing your own beer, it gets old and you go back to buying the real stuff.
Excellent point. I hadn't thought about that before. Thanks for enlightening me.
Lack of infrastructure is probably the key factor. Not a lot of biodiesel suppliers (yet).
Brilliant! Its been a long time coming but what a fantastic step forward. Peaceful, no smell low cost.
That Perseverance was amazing. Well done piloting David…
Awesome episode David - more like this please :)
so over 10x the cost of making this happen, yes this fake green energy cost more on the your fake carbon footprint
Yup! I love solar and love even more when people adapt it to things such as narrowboats. It's so ingenious!
"The joy of being a passenger is that you don't have to do any of the hard work operating the locks".
How mean !! :)
Making my way home by bike along a canal through Brum and not in any hurry, I voluntarily assisted a boat down a flight of locks. At the bottom, I was invited aboard and was given a cup of tea and a helm ! (A first for me - or is it 2 firsts ?)
It's amazing! I have never thought of your boat being necessarily loud, David, but being able to hear every note of the passing birdsong is remarkable and a reminder of just how much noise we produce doing seemingly innocuous events. Have you put in an order?
Absolutely fascinating David. Thanks for the vid.
I love this kind of content. I have an off-grid solar system and its so reliable so seeing this feature makes watching better than any film out there. Bloody bravo from me.
This was fascinating and well put together, thank you - and a glimpse of a future that frankly can’t come fast enough.
Nearly 25 years ago my then wife and me and our 6 month old baby boy had an all electric hire narrowboat on the Brecon & Abergavenny canal for a week - and what an eye opener that was, after always having had diesels! I can still recall now the beautiful silence as we cruised the canal, we absolutely loved it. Making sure we moored up overnight next to a charging point was no difficulty, with the overnight charging simple and effective. Electric is definitely the future, both on the canals and on the roads. Bring it on!
Maybe this will bring back memories: th-cam.com/video/rNFDdgkiJGk/w-d-xo.html
13:35 The joy of being a passenger
13:37 is that you don’t have to do any of the hard work operating the locks.
Yes, that are the most wanted passengers on board.
Congratulations, what a well prepared benchmark between all those configurations come together with that tasty insights of the landscape 👌
Wow people are vehemently against electric anything. So much passion, so little research.
Their scepticism is justified IMO. There's a lot of loose public money swishing around green tech, so some pretty terrible ideas end up getting funded.
Research tends to find that electric motors aren't great for moving boats around.
@@73BigMC what research? The research in this video showed it was 10x more efficient.
@@73BigMC really because virtually all new ships are electric motors nowadays.
When you said Perseverence was taking part, I was expecting to see Jo, Michael, and George!
Aha, narrowboats do not have unique names ...
Me too!
@@CruisingTheCut And I half expected to see a Mars rover... ;-)
I've worked for a seller of small electrical sloops. You never know how annoying the constant thrum of an internal combustion engine is when just calmly cruising along and trying to have a conversation over the constant background noise of the engine. The ability to just have a chat without raising ones voice was something I always pointed out after taking people out and no-one ever notices until you point it out, at which point they can't NOT notice it any more. While cruising in a diesel sloop I'd often have a sore throat at the end of the day from having to speak with a bit of force to be heard well. That just didn't happen on the electrical boats. You could whisper to one another and be heard.
I do however think at this point in time, pure battery electrical propulsion for boats isn't QUITE up to the level of being suitable for boats that do lots of cruising day after day or cover long distances without knowing where the next stop will be. It's perfect for day trips ending in the same marina it started or leisurely cruises from one place to the next where you can rely on power being available. Solar panels THEORETICALLY should provide enough power, but in practice you'll be draining you batteries throughout the day, which means that by the time you need the power for lights and such, there's not enough left and they're flat by morning. At which point you need to wait all day to get a bit of partial charge back. And charge cycles like that are detrimental to battery life on top of that. I'm sure battery electric with solar charging will work for some but it has drawbacks one needs to be well aware of before choosing for such a system. Serial hybrid power solves almost all of the issues. With proper installation a generator like those used for a serial hybrid drive can run at their most efficient speed, and the exhaust can be optimized to be as silent as possible at that speed, which means they're very very quiet (as demonstrated in the video), unlike the diesels used for direct propulsion, as they have to be much more slow running and optimized more for torque at low RPM. Which makes them more noisy. Parallel hybrid works well, but has some drawbacks (always driving at least part of a gearbox, up to the clutch, takes some energy and overall the system is usually less space efficient as everything has to be at the back of the boat in the engine room. The generator part of a hybrid system doesn't have to run all the time. Some days, when you know you have plenty of battery power and/or plenty of time to recharge at the end of he day, it can be fine to run on battery power alone and leave the internal combustion engine turned off.
On a narrow boat you get used to the noise and it's quiet enough to talk over if you're right next to each other - but you can't hear people shouting from the bow 60 feet away, and when you get away from the engine, the canals are so peaceful (compared to the wind and waves of the sea) that it's a shame to ruin it with a diesel.
Excellent video, I loved your last sentence "you could hear how quiet the electric motors were".
Makes note to self: If David calls me "crew" then I'm labour. If David calls me a "passenger" then I sip tea while he does all the work.
Haha true
@@CruisingTheCut
You scuppered yourself with that one!
On any further recruitment drives for "crew", you'll have to find less attentitive volunteers.
The other benefit of quiet cruising is how quiet it is for people in the cabin whilst underway. With a diesel it is almost unbearable!
Yes indeed! And smoother too.
@@CruisingTheCut If its a cruiser or semi trad, the noise inside is less than a trad and diesels aren't too bad in that configuration - I quite enjoy the quiet throbbing. Saying, I'd be intrigued to try an electric.
Our semi trad has a quiet engine with a hospital silencer, and at a relaxed cruising speed is a quite pleasant hum inside (round about 'G' on the scale!) But all the other benefits of electric are very appealing. :-)
Oh man, i love the silence. Surely the lack of noise increases the relaxation factor of narrowboating? edit: i posted before watching the entire video. :P
It really did for me on this trip
Fascinating comparison.
Very interesting and informative, lovely scenery and a joy to watch thank you Nicola
I really like the direction you have chosen since the beginning of the year. impactful and very interesting videos
Since starting watching your videos a month ago, I now want to buy a narrowboat.
Hahaha careful now... :-)
I really enjoyed this video and the insights on alternative fuels and boat propulsion systems. I'm throughly enjoying your new vlog formatting. It is worth the wait.
Thank you David. This was very interesting to watch and enjoy the semi-silent cruising.
Solar panels seem like a good idea, but I'm surprised nobody seems to have thought of mounting panels on the sides, or indeed covering the full length of the roof. There's also the possibility of having a flexible array (imagine a long but narrow awning) that could be erected alongside a moored boat, a bit like the awnings you see on camper vans. The solar panels fitted to the electric boats in the video look like they're only using a fraction of the potential available space, so, with more work, the gap between solar power produced, and solar power used, could be eliminated, even on a dull day.
And of course, with solar panels becoming both cheaper and more efficient, this has to be the future.
search "narrow boat 'Shine'." most of your answers are there, and the answers to most of the queries in other comments below the line.
An array that sticks out over the towpath or the canal would be very much in the way so not really practical. Many boaters use the roof for storage hence some area left “unpanelled”.
@@CruisingTheCut Ah, no. I wasn't suggesting people hang a solar array over the towpath, or the canal. There's often a strip of grass between the moored boat and the actual towpath. I've often seen boaters set up chairs and tables on this strip of land, and this is the bit of land I was referring to. Even if there wasn't a strip of land, you could have some brackets along the edge of roof and attach a roll of flexible panels to that, significantly increasing capacity when moored.
But my main point is that I'm just surprised that no-one seems to have thought about mounting solar panels on the actual sides of a narrowboat. If I had a narrowboat myself, I would also have panels mounted on the sides, which would be especially useful early morning and late evenings.
@@fulknerra6116 Cheers for that. I had a look at their boat. Plenty of panels on the roof, and being able to walk on them is very handy, but still rather limited because they've not installed panels on the sides.
I'm just really surprised that people are really getting into solar narrow boats now, but no-one seems to have thought about side mounted panels yet, to dramatically increase capacity.
My apologies if other people are discussing side mounted panels, but I didn't have time to check them all.
@@joules531 Side panels would only be useful on 1/4 mornings or evenings, assuming there are no trees blocking the low morning/evening sun. The panels on the far side of the sun would simply be wasted money every day.
The gains from side mounted panels would be truly marginal, and simply not worth the cost.
HOWEVER
Hinged panels are the way to maximise efficiency. A hinging system that allows side tilting (fwd/aft tilt wouldn't work on a narrowboat) is the way to do it on a canal boat because the mechanical loads are close to zero. The flexible panels have a short life, are more expensive, and can't be hinged.
I love that SeaDek matting, It looks so sharp.
Excellent little doco David...😀👍👏👏👏
We are surely enjoying these videos, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
I would like a boat like the Perseverance. Imagine the fun of sneaking up on unsuspecting boaters or the pranks you could play on your friends who won’t hear you coming. Ah well, just a thought even if an unrealistic mischievous one.
This is quality stuff. It's a relatively small thing when compared to the pollution from heavy industry and whatnot, but any and all movements to green energy is worth the trouble. Hell, even if this doesn't shave off a bit of the global pollution problem, the fact you can have a nearly silent boat that doesn't need to fill up (and potentially spill) fuel and doesn't stink up the place is great for enjoyers of wildlife
This video is relaxing as well as informative. Well done.
I love videos like this. Thank you for that David. Please more of it!
I could look at such test reports every day. This new technology is extremely interesting. Great work!
I'm still a bit sad you don't do your daily vlogs, but honestly, I do love your content! ♥
I never did daily vlogs! Oh my, that would be too much. Glad you enjoy these though :-)
@@CruisingTheCut Yeah daily wasn't the right word, your weekly cruising videos. Still this content is great! I actually found the breakdown at the end, of the power reports and fuel usages to be the best portion. With or without the sound tests, that was obvious the electrics win hands down. Its a strange feeling to see and not hear a boat under power, without sails.
It's a GREAT idea to put a electrical engine in boats like this.
Especially with the lowering of the batterie and solar panel prices.
And if someone is a good handyman...
easy to diy.
And with a silent generator as backup...
it's a perfect solution. 👌
BTW... I'm missing your cruising vlogs.
But thanks for this one. 🙏
I specially left in some silent cruising bits to give this a bit of a cruising video feel :-)
What a wonderful and serene video.
Glad you enjoyed it