We Need To Talk About D&D's New Warriors (Fighter, Barbarian and Paladin)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
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Let's take a look at the 2024 player's handbook new core warrior classes, the Fighter, Barbarian, and Paladin. Are they good? Are they bad? What did they do right? What's missing? Let's talk!
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0:00 - Intro
0:18 - Barbarian
2:23 - Barbarian Subclasses
6:02 - Paladin
7:17 - Paladin Subclasses
9:23 - Fighter
10:23 - Fighter Subclasses - เกม
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wow a whole 1% more than the "sale" they have running 365 days a year for at least the past 4 years (idk how they can even get away with running a "sale" like that when actual stores get sued for it). I do hope they are at least paying content creators decently for promoting their product.
"barbarians without rage are worse than fighters" Reckless attack????? are you insane?????
Curious about your Patreon and not seeing it answered in the FAQ -- Do you gain access to all your old content or is it stored/sold elsewhere from any of the subscriptions?
Barbarian: "I carefully inspect my surroundings for any traps or other dangers."
DM: Roll perception... Okay. You see nothing out of the ordinary.
Barbarian: (punches himself in the nuts) "I ANGRILY inspect my surroundings for..."
If there are enemies nearby, you would probably enjoy being raged, if not, feel free to take a rest and get it back
dude, the champion fighter could punch the barbarian in the balls and it would improve both of their stealth or perception rolls
It doesn't have to be angry, it can be like a zen mode
8:23 Aura of awarding sound like a buff to me. Spells from monsters in practice is uncommon and perhaps more so in the new monster manual.
It's worth noting that since the Primal Knowledge skill checks use strength, they will gain advantage from Rage. So it grants you both the use of your better ability score and the advantage, which is pretty substantial. Considering Rage now lasts for 10 minutes, this means you could activate it before combat when you're trying to stealth on an enemy, get the benefits, and then still have the rage for that fight.
While yes, it's not gonna be the most useful thing in the world, it's a lot better than it initially seems.
We don’t have confirmation the rage changes from the UA are in the final version but great call on the advantage, totally forgot about that
I think they're still restoring a rage every short rest, which makes it more reasonable to use it out of combat.
@@donaldcrankshaw1627 Yeah, it seems that they very much pushed Rage to make it viable outside of combat, with the extended time and the regain on short rest.
Based on what I've seen, there is a good chance that there will be a bit of a recharge on short rest.
@@DnDShorts Check out the D&D Beyond web site for actual written articles on Players Handbook, Weapon Mastery, Fighter changes, Paladin changes and Barbarian changes. The articles are posted around 3 hours after the youtube movie. The Barbarian article is about 2600 words long. And yes the article does say that rage lasts for 10 minutes.
We need to sneak past this guard. Barbarian guy, get super angry.
The guard knows it's better for him to pretend he didn't notice
The guard and the barbarian make eye contact… and the guard decides to take the rest of the night off.
“Thank you, Mr. Wick.”
You gotta think about rage as a supernatural primal state, not just "foaming at the mouth" angry. Jaguars, crocodiles and snakes are notorious predators that rely on stealth to ambush and kill their preys.
The Champion could punch him in the nuts if it helps. Then they both get a stealth bonus.
@@gp2917 It's the Batman Animated Series meme where the goon enters a room, sees batman, leaves, someone else asks him if he seen anything, he goes "nope."
Primal knowledge also gives you advantage, right? Because youre using strenght and are raging
Yes
Yep
Damn, your opinions about the new barbarian ignored the MOST IMPORTANT parts:
Rage being 10 minutes, advantage, recharge on short rest and etc.
10 minutes still isn't very long for out-of-combat stuff, advantage isn't confirmed for primal knowledge, now I can add the barbarian to the list of classes annoying me with constant short rests.
Yeah, really feels like he didn’t want to like the changes
The D&D beyond article implies rage last for 10 minutes at level 15 when you get persistent rage, it’s still 1 minute before that point.
@@TelsMaviston No, it’s 10 min from level 1. The Persistent Rage at 15 just allows you to maintain the rage without doing anything special each round, such as making an attack or using a bonus action.
Exactly
Primal Knowledge is actually fire and I will die on this hill.
First, Barbarians actually gain more rages as they level up starting at two and jumping to 3 at 3rd level. You also now regain one use of Rage on a short rest and all on a long rest, so it isn’t nearly as debilitating to spend a rage as it used to be.
Next, Rage makes certain ability checks into strength checks specifically so not only do you use your Strength modifier, you also gain advantage due to rage granting advantage to all Strength-based ability checks.
Lastly, with Rage lasting up to 10 minutes, you can activate a rage to gain a bonus to Stealth while entering a monster’s lair, gaining a bonus to Stealth, Survival, and Perception checks while exploring and then you already have rage active if and when a fight starts.
Dude, barbarians already have 3 rages at lvl 3 what are you talking about?
And just making it always be active is basically better, with an option to activate rage to give yourself advantage so... it's fine, but could and should be better.
It should not always be active. Balance. Something that good should need a resource. Otherwise it trivializes other classes and the barbarian's need to spec into those stats and skills.
@@glonx639 Also are you going to be in combat every single day of your life? Like I'd rather end up using it outside combat and having it not just have combat-exclusive uses.
It also works SUPER well with Indomitable Might. I’m curious if that’s back at lvl 18 like it was in the last UA, or if they made a little more useful again
Barbarian players are very happy, I know I and the barbs at my table certainly are
I think it's important to mention that barbarian gets rage back on short rest now, so imo it's not too bad to use up a rage for some important skill checks, especially when your DM doesn't throw a lot of combat encounters in a row at you
its also worth noting that barbarians are good in combat even without rage because reckless attack is one of the strongest class features in all of dnd. at lv 5 and below (where barbarian is best) reckless alone can let you keep up with an equal level fighter
Treanmonk stated that there is a lot that wasn't unveiled about Rage, notably about recovery. My guess is now you regain one use of your rage after a short rest. Plus rage now lasts 10 minutes so it's got way more use than the 2014 version. That would make barbarians more useful in dungeons and outside fighting.
And Brutal strikes actually synergises with weapon mastery so you can get some crazy combo. It gives options and is much more reliable than Brutal critical that happen like 9.75% of the time (assuming you relentless attack every turn).
I am confused about the criticism others had of brutal strikes as "not always better than just taking the advantage". Is it not a good thing to have meaningful choice? If so, there should be times to use the advantage, others to use the brutal strikes. Right?
@@liberalideas8224 Absolutely. Choice nodes make the game more fun if you ask me. This does nothing but make the Barbarian a more interesting class to play.
As Primal Knowledge is worded right now (in the beta), you'd not only use your strength modifier, but you'd be doing a strength check, therefore you'd gain advantage in those checks from being in rage
some notes on barbarian
while raging you have advantage on all strength checks, so you have advantage on all those checks too.
Rage now also recharges on a short rest, and lasts 10 minutes.
This is extremely relevant.
Still tying it into your rage is stupid.
Just give them the bonus
Imagine being mad that a martial class gets a non-combat utility feature that ties into their main gimmick. As a Barbarian player, this is a dream come true for me, not sure why people are mad about it lol
@@erikwilliams1562tying Wizard powers to spell slots is stupid. Just let them do everything for free
Jesus y'all butt hurt.
Look Rage is a limited resource.
Best example i have is that Battlemasters don't need to use Superiority dice to study their foe.
It's not too much to allow Barbarians to use their Strength for Intimidation Checks without having to Rage
I'd have been fine with making Smite a once per turn thing, but making it a Bonus Action?? And a spell? As if it wasn't bad enough that Bards could steal Greater Steed before Paladins even had access to it!
I'm fine with bonus action smite..but as a spell? Really tones its power down since it can be counterspelled now and some enemies are outright immune to it now. Smite should just be a BA ability with "x uses per long rest" and let the other smites just be modification that sacrifice damage for other effects, akin to a Rogue's Cunning Strike options.
@@dilkertoquendo8219 Yeah, my table is never going to run divine smite as a freaking spell. Wizard of the Coast has a slight case of the dumbs.
@@dilkertoquendo8219 I’m sorry, but the “some monsters are immune” is not a valid excuse. There is exactly one in the MM. And there are 3 in campaign specific books that almost no one uses. And those campaigns provide ways to get around it. So, no, spell immune creatures are not going to affect the viability of divine smite.
And if an enemy is counterspelling the paladin’s divine smite, your group should be happy. That is a huge waste of a counterspell.
@@dwil0311
Ain't no way a crit 4th level smite is a waste of a counterspell lmao
@@kurodo9926Compared to spells like Banishment, which instantly removes an enemy from the combat, it absolutely is a waste.
Barbarians getting a codified version of "using Skills with different abilities" when you could do it already.
They don't have to beg the DM for it I guess
@@shadow-faye EXACTLY!!! not havcing to ask a dick DM for permission is a FEATURE all in and of itself
If your dm lets you roll stealth and perception with strength then they must be 1 in a 1000, I've never even heard of that happening. Sure you occasionally get to use strength for intimidation or something but this is still a massive buff to barbarians out of combat.
Codifying it makes it an absolute instead of a fight at the table.
I have verbally fought others at tables and online over this.
Using Strength for other abilities isn't particularly common. I've heard some allow it for intimidation, but trying to argue Strength for perception or stealth just doesn't seem like it will ever happen. This is an absolute. You CAN do this for skills, no need to argue your point.
8:21 its worth opting this is more of a sidegrade than a nerf. Resistance to spells covers a lot more damage types but especially with recent additions, monsters have been using spells less and less, while resistance to a couple damage types is broadly applicable to spells, attacks, legendary actions, lair effects and so on
ok but not everyone runs only books adventures, a lot of campaigns have humanoid who can cast spells as enemies
And the end of magic BPS damage from weapons means that the advanced damage from advanced enemies will come from stuff like radiant, psychic, and necrotic damage. I still prefer resistance to spell damage, but this IS providing SOME consolation.
Eeeeh. I think it's still a nerf but a much lesser nerf than people think. Maybe if the resistance applied to more damage types, it would be more applicable. Not to mention spells that don't do damage.
im currently playing an ancients paladin who just lost a fight vs a mind flayer clairvoyant and would GLADLY give up "resistance to spells" for resistance to radiant/necro/psychic damage, so many creatures dont even use spells these days
Resistance to spells, if kept would have been a nerf as spell caster monsters don't use spells to damage players anymore
You got the barbarian all wrong First of all now the rage recharge 1 use After a short rest making It more easy to use it outsider of combat. Second Primal awarness make you use strenght so they now count as a strenght check and with your rage you do them with advantage, so it's not changing your +2 for a +4 (even if you have to tell me Witch barbarian have also a +2 in charisma for intimidation check for example) but you also do them with advantage. Third now rage last 10 minutes, and not 1 so even outside of combat It could be useful
Very unhappy with the divine smite nerfs.
jap. i think this was THE CORE ability for paladins. My Disappointment Is Immeasurable And My Day Is Ruined
I am too, but it was an overall buff. Paladin was already a very powerful class, arguably the best half caster. So what would happen if they buffed the Paladin (which they did) then didn't take power away from other parts of their kit?
Granted, there are way more tasteful ways of nerfing divine smite, like making it a spell/magic action so that it procs the now codified "one spell per turn" rule that was hinted at to stop Action Surge spell casting
Same here. You're not alone
@@Stonewariorsame
Yeah… if the DM doesn’t let me play the new Paladin with the old Smite then I’ll stick to the 5e version
The Ancients aura may not be a nerf in the updated game, a lot of monsters no longer have spells, but magic like effects, so it wouldn't help with those.
A lot of DMs (like myself) don't run book adventures often, so customized humanoid spell casters are more common for me to utilize than "new" creatures. The aura change is a straight nerf.
@@Seoul_Soldier I mean, same, but a lot of DMs also do use the base the monsters, so I don't think you can put it that simply. I couldn't tell you if there's more DM's who use the base monsters than ones who customise, but given that apparently most groups don't use feats, I would say it's likely most keep the basic monsters the same.
@@tomgymer7719 yea, i would assume the majority of DMs, myself included, use premade monsters rather than making their own NPCs, and when i DO homebrew, im more likely to make somone with interesting abilities and attacks rather than just picking spells from the spell list
@@Seoul_SoldierI don’t run book adventures either, but that doesn’t mean I’m home brewing every enemy in the game. I still use the monsters from the books, which means it will be relevant either way
I think primal knowledge will be most useful in dungeons between encounters. Now that rage lasts for 10 minutes, it means that a barbarian can make use out of the rest of that time while they look around, interrogate the person they fought and kept alive, sneak up on the next group of enemies, etc. Also, based on what they've said about the new versions of the subclasses it sounds like Barbarian is falling into a similar spot as the Tasha's ranger where it's a pretty good chassis that is brought up significantly with its subclasses
it also means you can play a barbarian in a more social campaign without feeling like a useless party member
always great to see you make a rewview on dnd books
The Ancients Paladin damage resistance isn't *strictly* a nerf, since it applies to non-spell damage, unlike the previous ability.
You get plenty of rages per day now because you get one back on a short rest, you don't have to worry about rages
Like, one of the reasons to get more rages is because of the out of combat uses
Smite being a bonus actipn spell lets them build in lay on hands as a bonus action, because the limitation was always meant to be no lay on hands in the same turn as smite, now you can make your attacks regardless, letting you feel like a true divine spellblade
Also, everyone else at the party doesn't like you double critical oneshotting the final boss before they got a turn, (happened to me)
RIP Paladin/Barbarian multiclass
There goes one of the like 3 reasons to multiclass into paladin
Why?
@@moonlight2870now that smite is a spell, you can't smite while raging. Thus, barb is useless.
Not only that, they made 2 weapon fighting incompatible with smite while simultaneously giving paladins access to the 2 weapon fighting style
Absolutely baffling at best
They're overbalanancing the game based on feedback from DMs mad that their players can multiclass at all
@@PhalisoBringerOfDoom You can use weapon with Nick mastery and still have full advantage of TWF as a paladin.
Good summary. Thanks for the video!
For the Paladin, I will remind of a few things.
1) Nick property means Paladins can TWF just fine and still smite, TWF doesn't take a bonus action with Nick
2) I ran the math on PAM vs Divine Smite. PAM is less damage, can miss, but does more damage if you crit. Divine Smite is automatic damage (because it triggers on a hit) and more damage than baseline PAM. True, you can't do both, but you also can't PAM and drink a potion, or use lay on hands. Overall, if you aren't planning on smiting PAM is still a good at-will ability
3) Remember, Counter-Spell is likely changing to a Con Save, and you don't lose the spell slot. Sure, a lich might use a 3rd level slot to force a Con save that gets boosted by your aura, and you might fail the save and not deal your extra damage.. but I'd argue the lich got the worse end of that exchange.
PAM SHOULD do less damage than smiting when comparing the two, it costs 0 resources rather than precious spell slots. Does smiting do enough more damage than PAM that it’s worth spending this spell slots and your bonus action on it regularly rather than an entire extra attack?
Also including the numbers that you ran is a lot more helpful than just stating that one is better than the other.
@Fyrzz True, but I was busy.
Wasn't too hard of math either. Divine Smite can't miss, does 2d8 or 9 average damage. At best PAM does 1d4+5 or 7.5 damage, reduced due to 60% hit rate.
If you crit, 2d4+5 is is 10, which is more, but by that point you've already chosen not to smite.
Most of the various damage buffs are now 1 per turn also (like GWM) so they won't raise the PAM attack.
@@Chaosmancer7 Was the dueling fighting style changed? If not that's often one of the fighting style chosen by PAM paladins, which would bring up the average PAM hit by 2.
Again though, divine smite is an ability that costs a very heavy resource, it should be expected to do more damage than the bonus attack from PAM when it's used
@Fyrzz Dueling doesn't work with 2-handed weapons? Usually I see people taking the +1 AC when wielding Glaive and such
@Chaosmancer7 spears, and while "technically" not pole arms, most dms allow tridents as well, which if the UA is unchanged, got bumped to d8-d10 instead of d6-d8 versatility.
I love the barbarian changes, my favorite class got buffed and it’s great
Just going to ignore smite changes, otherwise good enough
I love ALL DnD Shorts videos!
@DnDShorts I really just wanted to stop by and say I appreciate your videos and more importantly your delivery. Keep on making your quality content it is appreciated whether it’s stated frequently or not! 😁🍺
Simply put, they should've just said "you can only smite once per turn" and then it at least becomes a reasonable nerf instead of a paizo level nerf that it currently is. Smite now is counterspell-able, doesn't work in an antimagic field, can't be used on opp attacks, can't be used if you want to use your BA for anything else, if the weird BA spell rule is still there then it conflicts with that, it can be silenced now since it requires a vocal component, and creatures like tiamat and rakshasas are now immune to divine smite because they're immune to spells of 6th level or lower and paladins only get up to 5th level slots.
Needless to say if I play in this new edition I'm just letting someone play a 2014 paladin and i won't ever play a paladin in 5.5. It sucks.
I hope they don't keep making this game more like pf2, but based on the paladin nerfs I'm worried for all my favorite classes now. I hope this is the most substantial change they've made cuz I don't enjoy the "we must bow at the feet of the optimization channels who complain every moment about how strong the hexblade is" direction they're going in rn.
You hit it on the head where I feel weird about the Zealot
Exactly, it feels like they kinda stripped it of it's cool factor being a holy warrior so zealous they refuse to die and just keep coming back for more
they most likely changed it because of those DMs that kept banning this subclass for being too strong. IMO thats bs
All they had to do was limit Smite use to once per turn. Why did they change so much to bring them down?
Edit: My biggest issue with that is that Barbarian-Paladins can no longer smite while raging.
That would be literally the worst thing that could ever happen to Paladins.
@@boogienightsmarkwahlberg6011 It's already like this in this version, you can cast a ba spell only once in a turn
@@boogienightsmarkwahlberg6011 Which..... they have now done.
@@Xorrin no, it isn't
they did a lot more than that
first off, the action economy has been nerfed to the ground for it
but more importantly:
-it can be counter spelled
-verbal components, so cannot be used in silence
-cannot use in anti-magic bubble
-it's not special, because eloquence bard can pick it up an use it
paladin in general is dead, because it's main feature got old yellered
@@boogienightsmarkwahlberg6011 You're kidding me, right?
I was just the other day discussing the idea of fighter multi-attack being able to burn a cantrip as one of the attacks, so that is actually a neat idea to see implemented. Like Primal Savagery being combined with a weapon strike
Barbarian and Fighters: Frolicking in the fields
Paladin: crying in the shower.
jap. i think this was THE CORE ability for paladins. My Disappointment Is Immeasurable And My Day Is Ruined
paladin got a net buff. smite got nerfed but its power was properly distributed.
@@bittermixin i dont see the buff part outweighing the smite nerf... this is just so bad for me.... T_T
@@bittermixin Net buff, sure, but its made divine smite really trivial when stuff like Blinding Smite exist and take up the same bonus action.
If I remember correctly, in the playtest most of the smites are just better now, so it's not that bad. Paladin was arguably the 2nd best class in the game next to wizard and miles ahead of the other martials. Taking it down a peg in this way is only logical.
Its kind of strange that vow of emity and sacrad Weapon do not require actions, but input some Divine energy to a strike needs your BA
It's in line with the "you can hit very hard once per turn and you don't need your full action to buff yourself" that is common among this edition
great summary!
I love how every video you make ends with variant of "REMEMBER, NO PREORDERS" 😁
If i remember correctly, and it has not been changed. Counterspelled spells do not take the spell slot.
for now theres no more info then before about counterspell
It would kinda suck tbh if counterspell didn’t eat up the spellslot but we will see
@@ericgropuiswell for non-BA spells you are basically trading your reaction for their action, so i'd say it's a fair trade. Plus now you don't have to upcast it since it's just a CON save
Assuming the stuff Crawford left out from the UAs went through, most of your issues are being addressed.
Barbarians: Crawford forgot to mention it, but barbarians rage now lasts for 10 minutes and also they get one charge of rage back each short rest.
Regarding Primal knowledge - while raging you have advantage on strength checks. Turning a check into strength means not only are you using your primary score but you're getting advantage on it.
Regarding berserker: The "little" extra damage is a number of d6s equal to rage damage modifier. A great sword does 2d6 + mod damage. At level 3 this is almost a great sword attack. At lv 9 it's 3d6.
Wildheart: You change your animal every time you rage. Not on short rest. Also all the animals have changed. Crawford mentioned stuff like gaining climb and swim speeds. You can change your passive boost on long rest (the part not tied to rage).
Regarding paladin: You said no two weapon fighting. Two weapon fighting is changed. Paladins can now use any weapon mastery and any fighting style. So you can pick a two weapon fighting paladin with the nick weapon mastery and smite just fine.
Yeah polearm master paladin is dead, but doesn't effect too much else. Personally, I'll take bonus action smite in exchange for more smites per day, free mount spell cast, way better channel divinity usages, very buffed subclasses and of course weapon masteries. Smite was toned down so that everything else could be better.
EDIT: If you still want to make three attacks per turn as a Paladin and still smite, The answer is two weapon fighting. Go strength or dexterity. It doesn't matter, Just pick a weapon with the Nick weapon mastery. It will still synergize with the level 11 Paladin feature which adds radiant damage onto each hit.
Is the bonus action attack really what people took polearm master for anyway?
@@shadow-faye primarily, yes. The reaction attack was situational. It may trigger 50% of the time. It may never trigger at all after the first round. The bonus action was on every turn.
A very well reasoned point my friend, to which my only response is, screw you I want my smites. 😡
@@shadow-faye
The Bonus Action attack makes Critfishing a little easier.
Agreed.
~_~
The Ancient's Aura is only going to feel like a nerf until you run into a mind flayer or like creature. The old version did not protect you from psionics.
The other Paladin change is mounts from Find Steed use regularised opposed to specific creature stat blocks.
I think everyone is going to homebrew divine smite to be the same that was in 5E. Is probably a universal thing, like the bonus action potion.
Will this apply to all smites or just the divine one?
@@codebracker only divine smite. Just like 5E.
@@dokuro4316 well that doesn't seem fair to the other smites
@@codebracker i know but Is more accurate to 5E. Plus, locking smites to paladin only (for example, searing smite on the ranger Is a top spell) would be very cool but limitating. I see a post on reddit that gives how to use the smites Just like you suggested.
@@dokuro4316 why is copying 5e a good thing? Afaik most people just don't use other smites cause divine smite is just that much better
As for ranger, most of their unique spells are basically ranged smites as is
1:11 the whole point of that new ability was so that the Barbarian doesn't have to feel like a 5th wheel out of combat. So now on days when there's no combat occurring (days spent in town or similar) you can still use your Rage for something useful. Yes, of course on days when you expect to be in combat you will save your Rage for combat.
*doesn't feel like a third wheel. a fifth wheel is a hitch used to tow a large trailer. if you're the party's fifth wheel, the party is being hauled along by you.
@@morganb6717 Which does actually sound like a Barbarian thing to be lol
@@morganb6717 thanks
Oh so now Barbarians have to be omniscient and know when fights will happen.
@@Finckelstein Do you not ever have sessions where your party spends a day (or more) in town? Dealing with NPCs, shopping, debriefing with the town mayor about the quest, interrogating prisoners, etc? No down time in your campaigns ever? No interactions at noble gatherings to make connections, gather intel, celebrate? Hanging out at the tavern and resting up from your adventures?
My parties (both as a player and a DM) tend to spend at least a day in town between each excursion, sometimes a few days, a week, a month or more if the party wants some downtime for crafting or something.
The idea that a campaign would be 100% (or even 80%) constant adventuring, with never a day spent resting or engaging in peaceful interactions in town, is a very rare game style and completely unrealistic.
Also with primal knowledge, depending on the dm and the check, you can already do that. Strenght or contritution for an intimidation check come to mind.
Very happy with the Eldritch Knight buffs
Wait, free re roll every turn for a champion fighter that gets an expanded crit range? Critfisher build seems primo
It's also worth noting that the expanded crit ratio applies to death saves, and they stated that getting a crit on a death save gives you 1 hours back. Meaning they are also pretty annoying to kill.
@@SkaalKeshdeath saves with rerolls and expanded range sounds terrifying, I'm gonna give this ability to a boss
5e 2024 is touting weapon masteries as their big revolutionary feature of the new edition. I would love to see you do a comparison video with DC20 and how they do weapon/attack maneuvers, to show how it's being blown out of the water by the new system.
It's DnD 4e maneuvers with PF 2e action economy. Who would of thought the next evolution of DnD was to go to back and play 4th edition.
That comparison would only work if the two games operated under the same system. DC20 is closer to Pathfinder than to 5e and it seems petty and not constructive to compare a different game to try to dunk on something you seem to not like.
They mentioned in the video about barb that rage was getting a time increase
I like the idea of primal knowledge, that it basically is the barbarian mentally becoming intensely focused when fighting to a near superhuman degree, able to sense things only the keenest of rangers usually would, and able to perform dexterous acts rivalling that of a rogue. However, with the limitation of being within their rage. I'd even argue it should be more limited, specifically to relatively serious combat.
It would have been interesting if, like Insight Check said, WOTC had instead made Paladin Amite remain as a class feature, but limit it to one use per turn, so it could still work with opportunity attacks/crit-calls, and even on top of other Smite spells. Then, it would have felt akin to a Rogue's Sneak Attack, but requiring resources to use instead of careful setup. It would also be somewhat synonymous with other subclass/spell features that have been changed to deal extra damage when you hit once per turn (like Zealot/Berserker, or the UA Hex/Hunter's Mark)
This. I'm absolutely going to use base 5e smites with "once per turn" tacked on in any games that are otherwise "5.5" as all the ripple effects from making it a bonus action + actual spell just really make them clunky to use now.
For barbarians I would put as long as you have a single rage you get the benefits of primal knowledge when you run out you don’t get the bonus anymore
Or the other way around if you run out of rage you get the benefits of primal knowledge
Rage lasts a lot longer now and can be extended easily out of combat. Add on the fact that you get back a use on a short rest and honestly it's nothing but upside change-wise.
Except he forgot to add that it literally gives you advantage on checks on top of using STR which would make it stupid broken and you would be making every single check for the party, all the time. With the new rage duration and self-damage changes I think it's fine RAW.
@@graysaltine6035 Nah, it sounds busted and needs more tweaks.
I skipped most 2024e videos so far, but watched that one because I trust your opinion. And now I don't know what to think. So much is about to change? Well, if I want to learn a new system, I just might chose Pathfinder or in a little while MCDM.
Chainmail & along beard? Your bravery always impresses me 😊
I like the idea of nerfing the nova damage of the paladin while buffing the rest of the kit, but i don't like how they went about it
Frankly they nerfed the kit because now that the only thing you can do to help smite is use an oath charge which were the best before any other use is worthless, find steed is frankly the most unfun trash I've ever had to deal with, there are no useful non-smite spells as if you do them that's one less turn until your worthless and the aura is pointless supporting Paladins, monks, and barbarians because Paladins have no damage unless you smite, monks have an in house feature to make it so they won't fail, and barbarians aren't worth much either, and finally lay on hands means no smite and heals less then the monsters will deal even if you use the whole thing
@@dylanthomas4208or just saying: it makes the paladin need the team more, & can't one man army like some builds of the past. the paladin has long been one of the top classes in the game, & that is unlikely to change just because it's not in the top tier of marshall classes before considering subclasses
@@leonvalenzuela4096 I'm be real your right, except one small problem, the paladin brings nothing to the party as there skill abilities are meh, there support is either unnecessary or worthless if you play the class as intended because you are designed to be in melee which leads to getting knocked out and supporting melee classes which are all trash as they don't do enough damage to be staring down death every round of the game and tanking is worthless as nothing really needs a tank past like level 5 or so, your sustained damage challenges Rogue for being the worst and unlike them your nova damage isn't free
@@dylanthomas4208 other marshals have been buffed too with them having better overall abilities then before & able to carry more of the battle then before. not to point out the aura of protection is still the best aura of the game, as its free & can't be interrupted.
smite before this nurf was the best move of the game: couldn't fail, doesn't give a save, ways to work against it was ineffective, & made the paladin NEVER cast outside of a bluemoon as a half caster, not to bring up there were thing that smite didn't work on before they just needed radiate immunity.... the rarest immunity in the game
@@leonvalenzuela4096 frankly I don't disagree that smite needed a nerf but making it a spell and a bonus are both to much and making it once per-turn and having the option to add a rider effect and besides it does have a negative, you need to be in melee for it to work also known as where you die instantly because nothing is actually designed to survive there, and melee classes are the only thing that's going to benefit from it making it significantly worse unless you ignore the ability that people play this class for, so yeah this class is competing with Rogue for the worst class in the game
RIP man too angry to die, *dies*
I mean you still have the "heal when you hit 0 hp" and it heals for more, but yeah it's less epic
You actually have, by far, the most creative, interesting, and funny 'sponsored ads' in your videos.
You can get one use of rage back on a short rest, counterspell requires a saving throw on the affected creature, and should said creature fail the save they don't lose a spell slot.
Before watching: i liked Fighter and Barbarian very much. Let's see if i let something pass D:
I mean, both of them are objectively better classes in almost every way, so you should be happy
@@malmasterson3890 Yeah. After watching the video i got some insight about details that i usually don't think much about, so it is good to know these things, but in general i think that both are improvements, because most things that they took or changed, was for more reliability or variability, even if "weaker".
@@BrunoFernandes-ty7mf Keep in mind that he missed most of the details in this video, especially regarding barbarian. Read through some of the comments and you’ll see that some of his takes are way off the mark.
@@dwil0311 Yeah, thanks for that. I saw some of the comments because i felt that he missed some of the points. I mean, he is right about "it is not confirmed to be 10min", but still to ignore this possibility (and high probability) completely made it look like he just wanted something to complain about the Barbarian because he liked the need for the player to force some creative solutions to keep the Rage going.
I mean, I understand that many of the changes that makes the game functions better also take that vibe that D&D has like "does not really work as it should, but it is open enough that the player and DM can come up with something to deal with it, which adds flavor!". Flavor is important, but flavor and creativity etc can exist even if you're following all the little gritty rules. It is fine for seasoned players and DM to have ways to circunvent bad or poorly design choices, but for many unexperienced or "by the RAW" DMs and players tend to not try anything that seems to deviate from the rules. So they end up with a Barbarian losing all his rage uses too fast because the enemy teleports or just have Nimble Escape or whatever.
I think 5.5e looks great so far. Let’s see what else they reveal next week!
Seeing these changes make me happy for 5e, but also makes me well glad I moved to PF2E where martials are not fighting for scraps.
Something else about Divine Smite: it's a bonus action that PAIRS with another attack. So it uses your main action too, not even making it part of an attack like Booming Blade for example. Smiting now limits your action economy.
So they reduced the paladin damage output and multi-class potential but do they get any additional protection? Feels a bit bad that you need to risk it being in melee just to be rewarded with (maybe) 1 smite per turn?
im not sure what your frame of reference is but paladins were unequivocally the strongest class in the game in and out of the battlefield second only to high level casters. they can heal, excel in social situations, excel in physical combat with very low risk because they innately get heavy armor, a lot of defensive spellcasting, and the most coveted melee damage option in the game
nerfing the most coveted melee damage option in the game isn't going to kill the paladin class
So I've already decided if I buy the DnD 2024 players handbook. I will use the things I like from it to benefit the classes from 5e. But completely ignore the things I don't like.
Cause I was originally curious to see what they would do with each class to make improvements. But when I saw Paladin I realized that I definitely wasn't going to be most, if any of the 2024 version of DnD.
And it's all because of Divine Smite. Divine Smite being able to be Counterspelled shenanigans aside.
You're telling me that the Paladin of Bahamut can't Divine Smite Tiamat because of her Limited Magic Immunity? And that the Barbarian or Fighter will be able to do more damage with just one hit the knight who has vowed to destroy Tiamat in the name of their god?
Definitely not a feature I will be using in my games.
yeah same take the good cut the bad. at least fighters got nothing but buffs.
You realize they’re also redesigning the monsters, right? They are probably going to take this into account
My only issue with the Paladin changes is the fact Smite is now a spell, which can be counter spelled, kind of removing most of the hitting power for the class entirely if your opponent has the ability to counter spell you
The new oath of the ancient and bear totem barbarian is a great multiclass. 3 levels into path of the totem barbarian and 7 levels into oath of the ancient paladin, now you have resistance to all damage types in the game.
The not being able to smite multiple times per turn kills my desire to play a 2024 Paladin which is a shame because most of the changes for the 2024 are good.
Oddly enough, I never thought about really abusing divine smite that much, until all this talk about changes in One DnD. I was in the "wait for a crit" camp, not the "Nova the enemy with three level 1 spell slots at once" camp. Although only being able to do this once per long rest is a big nerf.
@@chadnorris8257 You can still smite as much as you have spell slots, its just that you can do it free one per long rest
If they hadn't nerfed paladins they wouldn't have been able to give them a single other change while keeping them in line with other classes. The rest of their kit sucked because the OG smite was the majority of their power budget. If people thought they were going to give paladins buffs and tweaks to make them feel better outside of smite with it as it was then you were huffing copium.
@@hr329085 Nah, they could have just not given paladins access to weapon masteries. it's their sheer power of will and adherence to their oaths that give them their power, not tons of methodical training.
Thanks for making this video.
I didn't realize they took away the berserker's extra bonus action attack and the zealots too- angry-to-die swagger And Crawford said really liked playing barbarian. It's like he looked around and said "OMG people are having too much fun. Quick, we've got to put a stop to it!"
I don't get how they could add all of these new mechanics and rules (and nerfs), but still not add taunt and a defensive fighting style that scales with how many enemies are attacking you in melee.
So I just started playing TT D&D again 2 months ago after not having played since AD&D. After finding out that rangers were finally good, I was lured back in. I spent a lot of time creating and planning my character, a gloom stalker ranger. My DM helped me with my backstory by asking really great questions that should lead to great narrative. But after seeing what they did to paladins, I think I know what's in store for my character from reading the testing UAs. I'm so discouraged and depressed, I don't feel like I want to play anymore
The berserker bonus damage is substantial though. It is +1d6 per rage mod, so it starts with an extra 2d6 damage every time you Reckless, then goes up. By also losing the exhaustion, it is a massive boost.
@@Chaosmancer7 I admit I didn't run the numbers to compare the bonus damage versus the bonus action attack. I'm always leery of giving up attacks, especially if it's damage now versus a damage later
@RPGFan253 Which is fair. I'm just trying to look holistically. And the berserker rarely used their bonus action attack, and can still get bonus action attacks through other means.
@@Chaosmancer7 That's fair. My son actually plays berserker, is a huge fan of barbarian and is more knowledgeable than I am. So I'm looking forward to hearing his thoughts
Fun fact about the berserker’s 3rd level feature it is once per turn not once per round so if you attack with your reaction from an AoO or Retaliation you gain that additional damage as reckless attack also lasts until the start of your next turn
I dont hate Primal Knowledge, I really dig it actually. I will wait until I see it in print to say for sure though of course. Using strength and I believe getting advantage on that is a pretty good buff to any roll for a barbarian, especially if it hits some useful skills for social encounters. Maybe its not as dramatic as the rogues expertise or as dynamic as a wizard with spells, but it doesnt need to be. My biggest issue playing a barbarian was feeling like I needed to sit in a corner for more than half the adventure unless I wanted to accidently knock stuff off a shelf during a shopping trip or whatever.
As far as it using rage, I think that will be less impactful than people think since they come back on short rest now and it is not like you are garrenteed to have fights in every town you go to. Afterall, how many of us have had entire campaign sessions without any combat whatsoever? The rage being a method of a person tapping more into their primal awareness is okay too as that has been in the flavor text the whole time. The only critque I have to admit is yes, it would be nice if these were always on rather then using a rage and then effectively using your "bonus action" outside of initiative to keep it going. However, they said using a class resource in other ways is a bit of a theme they had going with 2024, so that is probability why.
i know we have to wait to see how it works, but i will appreciate your thoughts about backwards compatibility (:
I actually really like the buff to second wind. Overall I think the fighter improvements are definitely good, as apposed to the paladins trash (although I like the find steed for free)
yeah but a paladin doesn't need to use find steed every day, so they could prepare the spell and use it and change it the next day
I dunno if all that changes to paladin can compensate for the huge nerf at divine smite
yeah free ride, spells slots at level 1 already and better channel divinity are cool, but I'm gonna miss spamming smites
The one thing that does, I think, push Paladin over the edge is Weapon Masteries. Access to those gives them such a good splice of reliable utility, so overall the class IS stronger.
@@seisner6655 If that's really the case, they could have just, not given Paladins Weapon Masteries and kept Divine Smite as it was, thereby keeping the core of the class fantasy intact. Personally, I don't think the half-casters should have Weapon Masteries, since they have spellcasting and martial abilities, they should have something else to distinguish them from full martials, and Paladin already had that in the form of Divine Smite.
Weapon Masteries should be what buffs martials to make up for the fact that they don't have spellcasting. Half-casters have access to spells, so they don't need as much of a buff as full martials do, especially not the Paladin.
@@jacobyullman5005 I agree with you. I would have been fine not getting Weapon Masteries. I'm not fine with Smite being gutted. The damage per round at high levels is just sad.
@@jacobyullman5005 Divine smite has been problematic for years. Paladins constantly crit fishing hoping to go absolutely nuclear on a single turn that could in many cases end the fight immediately. They got a host of buffs that would NOT have been possible, not a single one, while divine smite was the way it was.
@@hr329085 who cares about that? you picked paladin for the smite anyway. crit fishing is a fun playstyle for some. if your baddie goes down cause one player is at your table then you suck at making fights. that's a skill issue not a paladin issue
The real issue with the Paladin nerf is that in these days. The Full casters especially Wizard's and Sorcerer's still are ahead of the curve damage wise regarding higher levels. In the first tier, many parties are kept alive from their frontliners.
As the tiers progress, the power curve goes to the caster. If this is supposed to make it more balanced, I have yet to hear of a buff for the Paladin's at the higher tiers.
Take away the Divine Smite just using a spell slot, that reduces one of the fun aspects of being a Palidin. Then possibly allowing other classes to pick it up. The Paladin is diminished even more.
Lastly, I haven't followed the Playlist updates. But I am surprised that the Conquest Paladin did not make the cut. That was a bit disappointing.
Overall, I find several if the choices they kept, suspect.
One reason rage took so many uses before is it was only good for a single fight, now with 10 minutes, you can do several dungeon mini fights before short resting and getting it back
Me the second i see paladins mentioned in a video *_click_*
i love balancing paladin's smite, honestly one smite per round seems fair(so many combo's currently allow 3-4 smites per roundattack three times with polemaster and use a reaction is a simple example). The main issue is requiring the Bonus action for it. This kills so many fun options. A dex paladin rogue multiclass to bash/disengage after smiting? nope. Barbarian Paladin, raging on a turn? no smite for you! any multiclass that uses a bonus action? nope! feats like shield master to knock people over? nope. etc etc etc. sure its is a choice to either smite or not but most combat's only last a few turns and putting out good single target damage is part of paladin's role/power fantasy. but now it limits massive swaths of character options between doing your main source of damage or not.
imo it boils down to this: if we want smite to now be a more consistent sustained bursts of damage, it should be easier to activate not harder. Hope i am explaining that well. it seems counter to what they are going for in the design change itself.
thoughts?
Yep, it is bad game design.
the bonus action is the LEAST of the new smite's issues
-it can be counter spelled
-verbal components, so cannot be used in silence
-cannot use in anti-magic bubble
-it's not special, because eloquence bard can pick it up an use it
paladin in general is dead, because it's main feature got old yellered
I don't agree on the nova problem at all: The option of burning all the paladin's slots for smites is not wrong, they trade their resources to end a fight quickly, if you nerf that you only make the fights longer. If your paladin always oneshots the boss maybe you don't have enough encounters in a day, it's their choice to use everything on that guy they don't want to stay in the field, but it's the dm job to make sure a class is not going to nuke the single boss they fight. Wizards can do a lot more damage with fireballs to a lot of enemies and i don't see people complaining about it
And maybe I'm just playing it weirdly but at least with 5e rules it seems like most of a paladin's early game combat spells (branding smite, thunderous smite, shield of faith, etc) are bonus actions that are most intuitive to cast at the start of a round, so even without multiclassing it's killing a bunch of the paladin's options. Why use branding smite at all when you might be able to use divine smite after your attack? This may very well be addressed with OneDnD but I haven't seen many people mentioning it yet
@@dragonriderabens9761 disagree, even if these are each undeniable nerfs.
If a wizard counter spells my divine smite great! Now he can't counter a hold person, suggestion, or another counter spell, etc. a smite is actually fine to have countered for the party's benefit imo.
Silence should get buffed imo. But this is your point I agree with most. But on a steed, so easy to disengage and move out of silence. So there is counter play.
Antimagic is pretty rare. No idea how often that comes up, but might be a big deal at very high levels.
From what I understand "paladin smite" needs one level of paladin, so bards and multiclass is only way. I'm personally fine with that. But for bards to use it bonus action is pretty big same as I said above. choose between bonus action to smite is a big conflict with bardic inspiration(not as big as other classes to be fair). My player with a valor bard sentinel smites 2-3 times a turn for so much damage then inspires a party member. For this build bonus action use is a huge nerf.
Rage stealthing seems so silly.
"Im so angry I am gonna furiously sneak so good!"
Its like Drax standing still to try and be invisible.
First Note: Rage is now tied to a short rest.
Second Note: I believe Rage has a longer duration now. This could just be me mistaking it for my ttrpg system, but it can also be sustained with a Bonus Action which is much better.
That's all I had.
Third Note: Because these skills become str base skills they are also rolled with advantage while raging
The Smite nerfs is unforgivable.
Easy enough to run it as a reaction instead of a bonus action. That's the way a lot of tables play the other smite spells already.
As if paladin didn't have enough to worry about, bard is also taking their job
@@justinkopy3354 With a reaction every enemy can distance themself from the paladin with no problems, this is even worse than BA smite
@@shealupkesmost bard couldn’t even utilize smite properly.
Unforgiveable.. You're right we shall remember.
Grab the torches my friend Chris Perkins dies tonight.
Lol jokes aside though I agree it's pretty fucked
While I do recognize divine smite has been nerfed and am very sad about that, I do play with a player who is not very knowledgeable of game mechanics including class features who likes to play paladins for some reason even though they always look for divine smite in their spell list and don't use it correctly. This change also gives wotc the oportunity to buff the other smite spells and you basically get to choose which smite you use rather than stack them. Less nova, but probably better balanced for it.
I imagine the logic behind Primal Knowledge using Rage is because you can replenish them on a Short Rest now. I'm straight up going to ignore the Paladin Smite nerf though; it's not like your aren't getting your damage for free since Paladins only get so many slots.
Good news: if your smite gets counterspelled you get the spellslot back
Personally I like the nerf to the divine smite tho,as it now makes the other smite spells more appealing
I got over hyped and ordered all three books in limited edition, on the plus side I got them from my local so.... Yay for helping?
Divine Smite was always a bit of a noob trap. Anyone who actually burned all their spell slots smiting on every single attack was hamstringing themselves, and the actual experienced Paladins would learn how to leverage their actual spells in the right circumstances, and keep a few extra slots in their back pocket so they could pull out a smite when the most opportune moment presented itself. With these changes, it's become an even bigger noob trap, because anyone who would intentionally burn their entire turn and one of their few spell slots to add 2d8 damage to a single attack obviously doesn't have the experience to know how much a spell slot is actually worth to a half-caster.
I agree with your assessment and I’ll add to it. My take is that the optimizers are the ones fussing the most. It’s harder to break an encounter with the changes.
Additionally, with the half caster kit available to the Paladin and the potential to up cast past lvl 5 (It is a spell now) sorcadins just got a boost even though Palibarians got ham strung.
But what do I know…. I’m just a crazy ranger player who sometimes multiclasses with Paladin for the channel divinity and auras.
Ill be sticking with 5E and homebrew, 6th edition is odd
The barbarian: needs to see if the robed figure approaching the host of the ball is hiding a dagger under their cloak.
Also the barbarian: starts shouting like a madman in the middle of the ball because it makes him see harder.
About the primal senses, they did give back rages on a short rest now, so I think it may actually be worth it
the paladin nerf to smite is brutal and i very much despise it!. i think this was THE CORE ability for paladins. My Disappointment Is Immeasurable And My Day Is Ruined
Not up mention the Paladin spell list is already full of bonus action spells. The only thing I haven't heard is whether or not the "divine smite" spell in concentration.
Improved fighters and barbarians and nerfed my favorite Paladin ability
Looking at the nerfed divine smite: "i recognize the council has made a decision, but given that its a stupid ass decision ive elected to ignore it!"
I'm subscribed to the channel, I clicked the bell icon and still I did not get notified nor saw this video on my main page! WTF TH-cam?!
I think a better way to do it is you can trade out the bonus for a skill check with your strength bonus a number of times equal to rage bonus each day
Okay yeah I hate the change to divine smite and honestly they just cannot keep it this way in the official release.
They already started publishing the books, so it's done
@@Xorrin yeah i belive you are right. technically if there are major issues they could maybe change it if they havn;t done their full print, but i think everything in the book is locked in.
Ohhh... I know folks feel good when they call the stuff other people enjoy and work on "bad" but I REALLY like these changes. Like, a LOT.
Also, Treantmonk is a seriously positive and objective source for information. Kudos for the mention!
Honestly I don’t mind the reduction in nova potential of the paladin and love all the other changes. I do wish you could still smite on an opportunity attack though. Deserters will be shot.
Preaching to the CHOIR!
@@user-on7yg9wf7d xonsidering the fact that the clas shas been begging for a NERF, the fgact that they got some nice ikprovements as well makes it more than worth it
Yeah, as a Barbarian and Paladin player primarily, while I'm mad that they went after smites instead of the obviously more problematic aura, I'm mostly happy with how both classes ended up.
That's great, this product should serve you well. I'm still not sold.
I will stick with my 1st and 2nd editions thanks.
One of the things I love about ttrpgs is that if we like the new rules, we'll use them, but if not, we can just ignore them. Maybe even mix and match as we see fit.
Basically this video feels like the guy completely didn't playtest any of these awesome changes
Also forgetting the massive buffs to stuff like reckless attack, among other things, which obviously were not present in the review
soooo smite is one of those 400+ new spells?
whats next channel divinity also spells and punching too?
Most of those 400 spells aren't new
Love your show mr shorts
There are rumors that the power attacks (from GWM and SS) are gonna stay the same as the PHB version but with the +1 stat that every 2024 feat gives.
So Paladin Smite no longer gives you the other smites prepared for free? Only the Divine Smite spell?
If so then I’d probably just use the 2014 Divine Smite feature but use the new reworked Smite spells.
Disappointed but oh well
Other classes look good though so far
being a bonus action is the LEAST of the new smite's issues
-it can be counter spelled
-verbal components, so cannot be used in silence
-cannot use in anti-magic bubble
-it's not special, because eloquence bard can pick it up an use it
paladin in general is dead, because it's main feature got old yellered
and as someone who fell in love with Zealot barbarian because of the "man too angry to die" meme...it feels more like a guardian angel support role than a front-line tank
I hate it. I hate it so damn much
and tiamat is immune to the smites
@@MsCj333don't forget Rakshasa aswell
It can't be Counterspelled. Counterspell is a Con save, and you have an Aura that buffs all of your saves and likely a high Con; you'll be fine.
I'm happy with the eldritch knight changes. I'm curious about the "able to get spells from any school of magic" and wonder if that means we can get eldritch blast. If not, there is alsways the artofocer multiclass tonget multipurpose tools :D
Seems like Primal Knowledge should just be a separate ability with it's own pool of uses, equal to your pool of Rage uses.
If you can Rage 3 times for 1 minute per LR, you also can PK 3 times for 10 minutes per LR.
(And keep Rage 1 minute since should just be for combat)