What If You Put a Superconductor in an Induction Heater?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2022
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I show you what happens when you put and type 2 superconductor in a high power induction coil.
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I should add that superconductors can break down in high fields, but I also put it far from the coils so the field was weaker and it still acted similar to steel. This is a YCBO superconductor so the breakdown field should be pretty high. Also I should add that there are more mechanisms that cause resistance in the superconductor in AC fields. Not just the skin effect. I am learning that superconductors aren't so super in AC fields.
@@Call_Upon_YAH okay... does jesus love mario kart and summoner duel or something? I know it's not an issue but I see no reason for channel to contain video games and quote religious stuff at same time but does not upload anything related to it
The irony of posting this on a science channel.
Good to mention. Especially for these polycrystalline pucks, these critical fields are especially high. Agree that is not really a problem here, see my other comment for what I believe is.
I’m curious to see it react w/o the liquid nitrogen 😱🤷🏻♂️. Curiosity kills tho eh? Lol
Cool. Please, make the same experiment with DC current for comparison.
I really liked how you showed the part where you got an unexpected result. It would have been easy to edit that out and have the right answer from the beginning and still explain the experiment well. However, that would miss a critical part of the scientific process, which is encountering and trying to understand unexpected results. :)
Completely agree!
Science is less about the ‘Eureka!’ And more about the ‘Hmm, that’s interesting…’
Yes, there are eureka moments, but it’s the unexpected outcome that gets you to look at things more closely, specifically when what’s happening is outside expectations.
This is what makes him and other youtubers different from our science teachers. Teachers make us learn and cram things while youtubers explain and understand with experimentation and uncertainity.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat well, that’s a bit of a generalization. I bet if you ask a teacher stuff after class, there’s enthusiasm to be found.
In class though, all IQs need to get to a certain test result.
The experiment was literally to see what would happen. Editing out the unexpected result would have made showing the experiment pointless and the video shorter.
Superconductors are only superconducting at DC. At AC the momentum of the superconducting electrons causes them to lag a little bit, allowing some of the electric field to penetrate. This penetrating field causes the non-superconducting electrons, which are also present, to create a non-superconducting current and lose energy through resistance.
At higher frequency, this lag is more pronounced, and more of the electric field penetrates.
I couldn't find any information on how much resistance this creates. I wonder what percentage is from the penetrating field vs skin effect. Skin effect could be quite significant in the type 2 superconductor due to the fields around each imperfection.
@@TheActionLab Also, wouldn't the resistance go up when the skin layer is heated since it will heat the neighboring parts slightly?
@@TheActionLab There is also a maximum amount of current density that a superconductor can handle before it becomes a resistive load to any further current. I suspect this is what happened. This is why MRI machines have to be very carefully ramped up slowly
@@TheActionLab There's a simple proof of this -- although it doesn't tell you /how much/ at the experimental conditions. Simply consider this one fact:
The block doesn't become shiny when cooled.
Now, optical and LF waves are quite different; indeed, quantum effects are involved, for superconductors even around far IR. But it remains the case -- and it will be true between both classical and quantum cases (and thus LF to optical), that, at low frequencies, resistance approaches zero, while at optical, it's quite nonzero (black -- absorptive).
In fact, your magnet demo at the start, hints at the nature of this effect!
In the same way that ferromagnetic materials exhibit magnetic hysteresis loss (energy dissipation upon field change), type 2 superconductors exhibit conductive hysteresis loss (flux pinning). Work is done (you can feel it when you push the magnet into place!) deforming the superconducting path and trapping those flux tubes.
It stands to reason, if this is simply done faster -- indeed, a couple ten thousand times a second, say by a few hundred amperes through a coil -- the material will heat up.
There are other effects, I think, and also less well understood effects -- even for very pure and cold superconductors -- but this is a very hand-waving introduction to actually a very deep truth: namely, that there must be continuity in the impedance, from DC to (literally) light. The fact that it superconducts at DC, isn't actually much of a guarantee of behavior at AC; but the fact that it's not shiny at optical frequencies, is a guarantee that -- somewhere inbetween -- it will be lossy.
The best AC superconductors I'm aware of (and it's been a while since I looked, but probably is still relevant) are made of spun niobium (type 1, no flux pinning), cooled to 2.2K or so, with a Q factor in the 10^8 range -- better than quartz crystal resonators, but still not infinite -- operating at 500MHz or so. These are used in particle accelerators, basically because the bunches of particles have very little charge, macroscopically speaking, so they couple to the applied fields very weakly, and thus require a large multiplication ratio (Q factor) to drive effectively.
@@TheActionLab You should hook the superconductor up to an Oscilloscope and measure the frequency respone. Should be interesting.
I love induction heaters, definitely got a "kid with a magnifying glass" feel with them. Especially cool are the really strong ones that get something so hot they can melt it, but can also magnetically levitate the molten material inside it... that is until you turn the power off and then watch out... that's something the Backyard Scientist would wearing shorts and flip flops.
Safety shorts and safety flip flops!
He wore glasses, that's protect you right?
@@Derekzparty Steel-toed Crocs-
@@gallium-gonzollium Genius idea from stuff made here
@@Derekzparty Hilarious comment dude! Lol
This one little experiment illustrates the important difference between theory and observation. It's easy to arrive at conclusions based on logic but we always need to make sure there isn't some variable that was missed in the train of thought. Great video!
I'm curious to know - what was your initial "conclusion based on logic"?
@@AdityaMehendale Oh, that was a generic reference to ideas we have about things. But the natural conclusion in the case of this video is that a superconductor should not heat up at all through induction since they have zero resistance. This experiment clearly shows that the conclusion was mistaken. It serves as a great example of how we can take things for granted
@@jacobopstad5483 I had expected the SC to "jump out of" the LN beaker when the coil was switched-on.
I am sorry, but the statement "This one little experiment illustrates the important difference between theory and observation." is fundamentally wrong. A scientific theory is at the highest level of rigorous understanding of the physical world. It has explained all of past experiments and current state of the world and it can also make predictions about future experiments. If an experiment defies an established theory, the theory would be thrown out and a more refined/correct version would be put in its place.
In this situation, the theory perfectly predicts what has been observed. There is nothing against theory here and no surprise at the scientific level.
What you should actually say is that: "The observation went against MY expectation because I was not fully aware of the depth of superconductivity theory". Nothing more can be said here.
@@Thesignalpath Well said, Shahriar :) It's surreal to find you in the comments' section!
The main effect here are AC losses inside the superconductor, not the penetration depth. The constantly changing field is constantly getting pushed in and out of the superconductor. Specfically, the 'pinned' fluxes are moved around a lot. This costs a relatively huge amount of energy. It is also one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, issue in making superconductors usable in practical applications. Also your puck of ReBCO is bulk polycrystalline. This is great for flux pinning (which is why it's used for these pucks) due to the very high amount of grain boundaries. But in this situation it works against you, as it costs even more energy to move these fluxes around. Even more of an issue is that these grain boundaries are normal conducting, and with a very high resistance at that. You're trying to induce huge currents in something with a terrible transport current capacity. For more information, you might want to look into topics like these AC losses in superconductors and the Bean critical state model.
As a sidenote: your steel penny might also heat up so much more because it is ferromagnetic
Yes, but what are the AC losses? It has to translate into actual resistance in the superconductor. The magnetic fields that are allowed to penetrate this type 2 superconductor also have a skin depth around each imperfection. So isn't that the same as saying it is due to the resistance from the skin depth?
@@TheActionLab It does have to do with a penetration field, but not specifically this skin depth effect. That effect is there don't get me wrong, but it's not the main reason for the loss of energy. You have to think how the superconductor gets magnetized "up and down" all the time. This is called magnetization losses or hysteresis losses. Another AC loss type that happens here are coupling losses, due to current moving between strands or grains of superconductor, so through normal material.
@@WouterVerbruggen Yes I see there are many more mechanisms for losses. The bottom line is that superconductors are pretty lame in AC fields
Also about the steel penny, I don't think that hysteresis losses (from being ferromagnetic) from the steel penny are the main reason for the heating. I think it is a mainly due to the eddy currents with high resistance. Even at high temps above the curie temps the iron heats very quickly.
@@TheActionLab Absolutely! AC effects is the root of many of ours problems working with applied superconductivity.
As for the penny, that's a good point. Would have to compare some numbers then to know for sure. I do know some induction cooking pans work better than other due to their stronger magnetic properties. But maybe the effect of frequency is different in those appliances.
6:50 “Super conductors aren’t that super in alternating fields” well said.
Having an unexpected result is the best part of this video. It's what science is all about.
👍 good vid. Another interesting aspect of superconductors is they contain "normal" non-superconducting electrons, but the effect of the normal electrons is not observed in DC currents and magnetic fields because the superconducting electrons "short-out" any E-fields that might be produced. However, at AC frequencies the short-out effect is never quite perfect, and normal electrons get to respond and lose energy in the process.
That makes sense; thanks!
Now that you explained it and I think about it, it makes sense. A superconductor can have zero ohms as long as the electricity we are passing through it has ANY straight path to get from one side to the other. However, that doesn't mean that the entire block of material has zero ohms. There can easily be some areas with higher resistance due to imperfections in the material, but those imperfections won't raise the resistance, since the electricity automatically looks for the path of least resistance. But when that electricity is being generated by tiny eddy currents all throughout the material, it is much more likely to get trapped between some of the imperfections and be forced to flow through a portion of the material that isn't quite a superconductor. This is my hypothesis anyways. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
You always do experiments that I didn't know I wanted to see.
He's making you smarter every day.
He's making unknown unknowns known.
Sheeesh! You have all the fun tools and experiments. I appreciate that you explain details like regular conductor and superconductor. Definitely makes your videos more enjoyable to watch!
Unless the penny you used was old (before 1982) it is copper-plated zinc, which has a much higher resistance than copper. It didn't get hot because it had too much internal resistance. Try a copper (pre-1982) penny and it will probably get hotter faster than the steel penny.
I came into the comments to say this exact same thing. The penny he used is defiantly a newer one based on the union shield side of the penny. This means that the penny used was 2010 or newer so defiantly coper-plated zinc making it more zinc than copper.
@@vintilk I hope he sees this and re[eats the experiment with a copper penny. As far as the superconductor caused boiling, there are probably some experiments that can better explain that action, too. It would be nice if the RF filed could be adjusted to see if there was a non-linear point that would help explain the results.
We don't know the frequency of the induction heater, but they tend to be around 100kHz, which (google...) should mean about 100u skin depth. And the copper on that penny is only (google...) 20u, so yeah, I'm pretty sure that was mostly a zinc penny in that test.
Came to to comments to see if anybody pointed out 'recent' 1 cent pieces are primarily zinc because copper is too expensive. Also heard that zinc "fumes" (heating, burning, vapor, etc.) is on the toxic side and should be avoided, but don't know the specifics of this myself.
@@dx9s I put a small stack of pennies on the concrete floor and then aimed my propane torch at it. The pile collapsed as the zinc melted.
Interesting experiment! Can’t wait to see the results!
You do the coolest videos with such amazing constancy!
This is a neat explanation of some of the complexities of superconductivity in a benchtop experiment.
I believe that the reason the steel penny generated more heat is mainly because there is greater magnetic flux in the steel than in the copper. Same as why we use iron in the cores of transformers. That is why you can only use ferromagnetic pans on induction stoves, in principle you could use a copper or aluminum pan, but the efficiency would be much lower.
You are talking about magnetic hysteresis losses. In ferromagnetic materials some heat is generated due to the magnetic domains alternating. But eddy current heat due to the resistance in iron is much more significant than the hysteresis heat created. You can see this is true because even at high temperatures (above curie temps where there are no more magnetic domains) the iron will still heat up faster than copper.
Love this channel. I've seen the shorts a million times but only today did I actually subscribe. It's nice to see something so educational can do so well in YT.
The thing I love most about your channel is you ask the same questions I ask. The difference is, you have an induction heater and a super conductor. .... I only have an induction heater and it doesn't work
an experiment i would never of thought to do, but now i really want to do it myself!
It will blow up probably lol😂
Hahahahhahahahhahahah so funny 🤣🤣🤣
😑😑😑😑
@@quantumrishi who spit in your cereal?
Nah
It didn't lol
@@jiddy30 he put the milk before probably
Another reason may be that not everything in that puck is superconducting. YBCO is AFAIK made by sintering, and it's possible that there's a mix of superconductor and "loose oxides" for lack of a better term.
For magnetic levitation only the superconducting parts are relevant. The rest of the stuff might be magnetically inert, but in the induction heater the non-superconducting parts might heat up.
Superb. This is one of your best experiments yet!
Thank you for this demonstration.
The new hairdo tho... Love watching the random stuff you get in to out in the garage, always pumped when I see a new upload in my subs
I believe superconductors also will stop superconducting if they're are exposed to too high a magnetic field along with the field changing too quickly. Not sure how strong the field is here though.
This!
The limiting amount for a good super conductor is about 0.1 Tesla at 0K. With the amount decreasing with temperature. Unless he's using YBCO which can do 120+ tesla
Saturation effect. It can only hold so many lines of magnetic flux.
This is a YBCO superconductor. Also I removed the superconductor from the center and put it farther from the field and still easily boiled the LN2 in a weaker field. It didn't seem like the field was too strong.
Well, this is a new spam bot.
@@madlad5199 probably generating likes and impressions with less "reports" before the channel is renamed and used for different botting... I've noticed a lot of these lately. even some just saying "whomever sees this I hope you have a wonderful blessed day" and they come up right after a video is posted, so they aren't authentic people.
2:09 really disappointed you didn't show more of the magnetic particles inside the coil when you activate it. That was SO freaking COOL!!
Hi. I have been watching and subbed to your shorts forever. I just found this channel today. I want to tell you I've Keane so much about science just from watching your channel. You make it so fun & interesting. I didn't pay much attention in school and have been left questioning a lot of things happening in the world. You explain a whole lot. Thank you. ❤️
Nice research! Most youtuber gloss over something like this as an error, but I love that you took the time to nail down what must be going on. Respect!
Your old hair cut looked more fitting than this new style. Nice videos.
It would be interesting to see some experiments with sympathetic resonance
interesting topic + to the point delivery + informative = entertaining video.. really good work..
James, your channel is awesome. The combination of broad knowledge in the physical sciences and childlike curiosity is a winning combination. Plus, you show a moment where something unexpected happened - not very common in a science video. Love it.
Pretty sure its because Super conductors have a limit amount of current /magnetic feild till it just becomes a metal again.
Super conductors work because electrons in a metal pair up and make cooper pairs which are fermions and cannot change momentum hence the '0' resistance.
When the magnetic field or temperature is too high they sort of go through a quantum phase transformation and revert into transferring current the normal way.
Yes, and it depends on both (and temperature as well) at the same time. Even worse, this stuff (ReBCO) is a ceramic in normal state.
@@WouterVerbruggen yeah but at super low temperatures its metallic state. I don't see its transformation into a ceramic being the limiting factor over the super conductor transition temperature
I've got some experiements I want to do with YBCO or whatever superconductor. That superconducting hockey puck of yours appears to be branded and maybe coated with something to make it a little durable. Where can I get something like that?
I feel informed. This clarified that superconduction is not so much an intrinsic material property as much as it is a statistical or structural one.
Great experiment. Thank you for doing and sharing it.
could there be an effect from vibrations at the same frequency as the current? or would this be neglegible? What I´m thinking is that if current was in one direction, the superconductor would want to float or spin (as they do when they levitate) but since you flip the current, they would sink or rotate the other direction. Would these switches(i.e. vibration) do anything?
In a way less, what's getting pushed/vibrated around are the magnetic field "fluxes" inside the superconductor (as mentioned also by James) which costs a lot of energy.
Interesting, learned something new about superconductors, I wonder how that would effect a quantum computer's communication. Would you have the same effect with a collapsing field of on, off, on? BTW was the man bunn always there?
Just thought I’d say, I LOVE your channel and what you show us! It’s BRILLIANT👍👍🇬🇧
This is literally the best example of the video we didn't need but we deserved.
Nice
*The superconductor will levitate.* Or it could. That was my instant response to the title question. But that depends on the induction coil being underneath the superconductor.
I was convinced no heating because no resistance. Eye opening experiment. Thanks for showing us that.
I wasn't expecting this result either and had to do some digging on why it would be happening!
@@TheActionLab I love it when science and evidence wins over beliefs and expectations. Knowing that you were also surprised meant a lot to me! 🙂
Excellent experiment and video!
Huh, that "copper" penny is *mostly* zinc: only the skin is copper. But this is an AC field... Did you do the math how deep the field would go at that frequency and how much of the interaction would be copper vs zinc?
1982 and older pennies are copper
Mostly
German silver is not silver
@@timk5867 1982 pennies don't have that obverse side (it would have the Lincoln memorial.) I can't quite make out the date on this one, but I believe it to be at least 2010 because of the design on the back.
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To the newbies, you should also note that this data is worthless without an existing understanding of data analysis.
This is very correct and good.
@Alina Fischer
WASP ⬇️⬇️
I'm really happy because this great channel exists and I'm one of it's subscribers and you are the best Physicist that I've ever seen even so much beyond the TH-cam platform, you love your field and we really receive this good sense for creativity 🌹🙏🏻🙏🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Love this topic you should do lots of videos with conduction and alternating currents.!!
Please get a hair cut.
Wonderful experiment. I loved it
Wow, did not think it would boil. Thank you for the science!
I mean he's a great guy, he's in hospital but still is doing things for us Great Job brother
Also I love how in your long videos there is so much more 'Ima press this button an see what happens' going on.
Dude the water ice building up and being deposited in the magnetic field is awesome too
Answers to questions that I wouldn't even know who to ask.
Love this channel.
What a fantastic video, thank you!
Great video! Keep on keeping on
Oh my god i was looking for these videos, make more superconductor videos. I like it.
A most excellent video sir!
Another great vid😀😀
Best Channel For Science Experiments ... Action Packed ...
I kinda wanna see some "electrolyte solution" in the induction heater
Incredible experiments! Best physics teacher in the world :)
I was also surprised. That's Wild!
Excellent. We do love discovery!
This guy is doing actual magic I love this channel
Love the samurai bun.
Great vid
And that’s why I love my iSiler induction stove.
Please, do more experiments with super conductors
Very interesting stuff. 👍
Good science trying just the LN2. LN2 being affected and the superconductor being affected would both be weird results on the surface. I had correctly guessed that the superconductor exhibited more resistance than expected, but the LN2 still had to be ruled out to be sure.
Thanks ❤️
Very interesting!
Good one.
You should have shown the temperature variance of the supper conductor
Great videos 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽 Actual applied science 👏
So cool !
Brilliant!
Huh, I’ve got it right. Thanks ty my two yrs as an assistant in cryo lab back at uni. Kudos to Kamerlingh Onnes for discovering superconductivity.
Great video
Thank you
I have the answer as I make superconducting pucks.
The superconductor layer is very thin (less than a human hair in thickness) so it is in a sandwich of stainless steel and copper.
In addition these ribbons are soldered together more than likely to add up to the diameter so this would introduce tin and maybe lead.
The ultimate experiment would be to use a single domain chunk of YBCO or some BSCCO superconductor.
I've actually done a similar experiment with putting a chunk of YCBO in the microwave. When warm it sparks but under liquid nitrogen it does nothing! I made a video but never posted because I wasn't happy with my camera set up so .... feel free to try it! (with a chunk of pure)
Interesting I've only seen these pucks as powered ReBCO compressed in a mold instead of proper crystalline tape stacks. It would change the electrodynamics of the situation quite a bit, coupling losses would be much more significant. Wouldn't expect it to work as well as a "quantum locking" demonstrator then though.
Wonderful video
This is really interesting and I'd like to understand it more. First, I think we need to understand how the temperature of the solid gets increased. I guess the main process is electrons inelastically scattering off the lattice and transferring their energy to the lattice. If we calcualte the temperature of the electrons (here "temperature" basically means kinetic energy), it will be huge. The temperature we are feeling is actually the temperature of the lattice. (I guess this is not contradictory because electrons have a much smaller heat capacity than the lattice.) Therefore, the heating effect we get by the electric current is actually of a different mechanism than zero resistivity, which concerns the interaction between electrons and disorder. The disorder scattering is typically assumed to be elastic so I guess it doesn't play a role in the heating.
Then, the heating will happen as long as we have a current so the situation should be similar to that of a normal metal. However, I believe the material you are using is an insulator, so actually the real interesting thing the superconductivity is doing is to induce a current (the Meissner effect induced a current to keep the magnetic field constant). I guess we always use some kind of metal to do induction heating but by virtue of superconductivity we can use an insulator to do it.
I love superconductors and would love to see more vidoes about them. Thanks.
This is super cool.
.. we call this an induction stove - and it can be bought in any store for electric supplies .. we have been using that for over 10 years in our kitchen .. (pretty neat, as it has a glas surface)
amazing video
I'm glad I didn't predict the outcome haha. Very interesting, thanks!
Very nice
Love your new haircut
My soldering iron is induction. There is a small coil in the end of each tip and the core of the tip is different alloys depending on the temp of the tip you select.
Ferromagnetic metals heat up more than normal conductors with the same conductivity when inside an induction heater, that's something to note.
Love the giggle bro... me too lol.
Very cool.
Loving the Cyberpunk Arc with that hairstyle lol
Man you should look into magnetrons and thin film deposition!
Science is awesome!!
This was actually surprising
Normally I don't care for your content. This was actually pretty well done.
Waiting for you to put the magnet over the top of the cup to see what happens now lol
It should be added that ferromagnetic materials will also experience a heating effect from magnetisation hysteresis losses. They get magnetised by the field from the coils. Every time the magnetisation switches, some heat is generated.
This effect is usually much stronger than the heating from eddy currents. That's why only steel pots work on induction hobs.
Also why the bolt heats so quickly up to ~orange heat when standing up, but kind of just stalls out at that point!