Has Bill Belichick's legacy taken a hit with Patriots ongoing struggles post-TB12? | NFL | Speak
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- The New England Patriots may have had one of the most famous dynasties in sports history, with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick leading the way. However, Belichick is 26-29 with no playoff wins since Brady departed New England in 2020. Emmanuel Acho, Joy Taylor, LeSean McCoy and James Jones discuss whether Belichick's legacy has taken a hit with the Pats ongoing struggles or not.
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The revamped SPEAK takes over the airwaves with Emmanuel Acho, LeSean McCoy and Joy Taylor covering the day’s hottest topics in sports and offering their unfiltered takes.
Has Bill Belichick's legacy taken a hit with Patriots ongoing struggles post-TB12? | NFL | Speak
• Has Bill Belichick's l...
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Y’all feel the same about Coach Pop and the Spurs?
@@bama2054Well, he’s got Wembayama now, so it might still change.
For years people kept saying Brady is a system QB. Now we know that he was the system.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
People who actually watched TB12's career know he was just a system QB to start.
@@Khris-wt7br People who saw him from the start, knew that he was no system QB, which is why he did what he did. Bledsoe could not move the ball down the field for an entire game. Once Brady took over, he easily moved it down the field, even if it only led to FG's. At the least, you want a QB who can move it. Dak can move it.
@@HardCold-Alquan he gained experience and became a better quarterback. In the beginning, he was just a manager.
@@HardCold-AlquanBledsoe wanted to air it out cause he had a cannon arm but that doesn’t fit with belichik’s defense, Brady worked cause he took what the defense gives him and relied on his RBs until he turned into an elite passer, once he did you’ll notice as the offense became top ranked, the total defense took a hit cause the offense ending td drives in 2 minutes but they still had great redzone defense so you could go for 400+yds all day but end up kicking field goals all game.
Tom masked a lot of Bill's mistakes with personnel. Tom also made sure the defense got enough rest between each series and that helped them play great. Tom taking pay cuts helped tremendously as well.
Tom made everyone better
@@Alex-sf9boI hate Tom, but man he was an amazing teammate to his receivers. I didn’t realize that until he was willing to live with AB to get him a shot.
Those defenses helped him aswell
@@twizzy585ful and he is the first one to say that. Bill's defenses also let him down multiple times, most notably SB52. Even at their height, conceded 29 in SB38.
@@Alex-sf9bo except Pats his last year... or Bucs his last year...
As a Patriot fan. I always believed Tom Brady was the main ingredient to the success that they had in New England. And bill belichick took a lot of credit for it too… now you guys see 😂
Same it was always Tom
Same! I was saying it for years. Finally feel vindicated
Brady was not only the greatest QB it was the way he kept the lockerroom togethe,r everyone who has played for the Patriots loved Tom he was the perfect foil for Bills grumpy attitude. Bill time and again cut loyal players and preached its better to cut them a year before they started to drop off than a year after, Kraft should of applied the same logic to Bill. Bill honestly thought the team's success was because of him and the coaching staff Coaches even said they could do it with any average QB. Bill even wanted to move Tom on years before he left which demonstrates how little he truly valued Tom's greatness.
U are right about coaches thinking that they are the main reason that their team wins eventhough, they are not bleeding on the field like the players! But i have to say a teams success depends on their offensive and defensive line, much more than any other position i have been saying it for years now, u can actually have a C rated QB and be consistent Super Bowl contenders, because a good O-Line is going to give a QB so much time to be calm and accuratley see who is open, and give the RB big holes to run through to tire the defensive down and eat up the clock, so that means the RB does not have to be pro bowl talented which means u spend less on the RB and QB and a good defensive line is going to make it were a team dont have to spend as much money to get pro bowl talented DBs, as long as they are decent DBs, the pro bowl talented defensive line is going to run the opposing offense off the field so quick that their QB will stay on the field more often with more opportunities to score and learn, because the defensive line made it possible. It use to be so boring when i use to see my favorite teams draft linemen in the first round, but when i really learned how to win, i knew that it was the best thing for a team to do is to strickly for several years straight only draft linemen in the first and seconds, trust me it works. And by the way Tom brady is the best QB of all time, but NOT the greatest NFL player of all time and if u understand what i typed above, then it explains why Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time but NOT the greatest NFL player of all time!
he was overrated IMO
@@ricreal6816 You typed a bunch of nothing Brady has more Wins Yards and TDs and had way bigger impact then any player at any position period there is no argument and you didn’t make one
Greatest QB? Pat Mahomes never played for the Pats under Belicheck.
@@hitek9too255 Lucky for Mahomes never had to deal with the trash offense Belichick always puts on the field he got the best head coach best TE ever and best WR why Alex smith lead the league in passer rating with Mahomes watching from the bench in 2017
Remember, Belichick’s teams are a miserable work environment. Players were willing to overlook that because of all the winning and prime time games. Now without the winning players are avoiding NE
It’s pretty clear that Brady was the reason for the majority of success New England had
And to think he was constantly tryna get rid of Brady.
I think he knew it was Brady and he was thinking he could plug in Jimmy G and ride the wave of success and act like it was him. You never know, Jimmy G probably could have won one for him - at the time.
@@HardCold-Alquannever
@@Thaulin Never ever!! Craziness
Pete Carroll was the coach at USC when Matt Hasselbeck led the Seahawks to the SB in 2005.
Belichick was lucky he had Tom Brady all those years or I don’t think he would have won all those Superbowls.
Shows you how much Pete Carrol got jobbed. He was replaced by a mediocre coach after three years of winning seasons. Imagine replacing a guy that never had a losing season with a guy who only had one winning season out of four with the Browns? If Pete had one more year to prove himself, he would have gotten Brady and the history of the NFL would forever be different.
As far as I’m concerned he wouldn’t have any
His total record as a head coach without Brady is ridiculous
Acho KILLED this segment ! As a pats fan BEFORE Brady! Belichick is OVERRATED LIKE NO OTHER!!! It was ALL TB since he pulled that jersey and went in the huddle ..
Free agents went to New England to play with Tom, not to be coached by Bill. Tom was the best GM the Pats ever had. We saw it clearly in Tampa when Tom's three recruits to Tampa, Gronk, AB, and Lenny Fournette impacted their season and we're responsible for all TDs in Tampa's Super Bowl win.
For context Andy Reid coaching tree includes, Harbaugh, Pederson, Ron Rivera, Sean McDermott, Todd Bowles and those are just the active ones. There were others that had mild success like Nagy, Childress, Shurmu, Frazier and others. But his tree is much better Belichick.
Dougie P.
Spoken as a true football fans. I didn’t think of this but I looked it up and it was straight facts thank you for the ammunition to those bill belchick lovers
and Belichick has more rings than all of them
Bill Walsh's coaching tree is better than Andy Reid's. Especially when you remember that Reid came from Bill Walsh's tree.
Not a one of them got a Ring except Pedersen who's looking like fluke.
WTF is the point of this ?
Stop it.
Brady made him who he was that's why
Who made you ?
@@zcam1969His mom i assume
@@jamesxm4240tell it to your other mother brother
Brady and belicheck helped each other them first 3 Super Bowls was Defensive teams especially the first superbowl run let’s not forget that first afc championship Bledsoe was the Qb and won it with the help of defense but Brady did go win the other 3 plus another with Tampa Belicheck got 8 rings been to 11 superbowls appearances his legacy is good he needs to get with the times or retire
terrible personnel & executive decisions are CLEARLY EXPOSED withOUT TB12
The fact that the coaching tree was so bad for the Pats (Post Pats) shows that even those guys looked good ONLY because of Brady
That was Hologram, not Pete Carroll, that went to the SB with Hassellbeck
LAST TIME THAT I CHECKED
They looking at him like he’s stupid
Holmgren(corrected) is actually another great example of what they were talking about. Won with Favre but then went to Seatle and got to a SB there too.
Man they just be talking smh
Playoffs not superbowl
The Patriots held Brady back!! Belichick cost them at least 3 more Superbowls!!
Matt Hasselbeck and Pete Carroll never was on the same team. Pete Carroll was in USC when Seattle went to a Super Bowl with Matt Hasselbeck.
bilichick was just along for the ride lol
he's Phil Jackson riding the coattail of Michael Jordan & then Shaq & Kobe
You gotta get him credit for some of these defenses and specials teams. Also don’t act like bb don’t have players in the HOF. Bb has done amazing things for some and a lot of these players
Jordan never won without Jackson. Brady won without Belichick@@olewis1000
He needed to be stripped of his GM title years ago. If that had happened he could just focus on coaching.
But, then his sons would not have jobs.
I can see that happening eventually. Kraft can only have so much patience, and Belichick has pretty much used up all his equity.
Their egos won’t let them admit it’s the players that made them what they are .. I encountered a lot of Patriot fans over the years that truly believed once Tommy departed Bill’s days were numbered ..
He is famous for the quote "Player win them, coaches lose them"
I was told by fans & “experts” for years bill can win with anyone off the street so far that’s been proven to be a fallacy.
I mean, youre not wrong. People were saying that for a long time
He can't. Kyle Shannahan, Mike McDaniel and Andy Reid can. Maybe Ben Johnson, Lafleur and McVay too. They inflate QB stats. Can get Sam Darnold to put Peyton Manning esque stats. Bill is the total opposite. He ruins QB stats.
@@erikpuka2627can you give specific examples. Because I’m trying to find any instances where those coaches have won anything with “anyone off the streets”
@@HugeRing Brock Purdy, Tua, Garappolo, Alex Smith. Doug Pederson in 2017. Theie playcalling so great they make bad QBs produce good stats
He could win as LONG AS BRADY WAS THERE
I’ve been saying this for years!! So happy the truth is coming out
I guess it was Brady. He really is the GOAT.
Shady is brutally and brilliantly correct 🙂.
BS
@@zcam1969 Compare what Belichick's defense did in 2001 playoff to Jeff Fishers's defense did in 1999 playoff. Remember, Belichick invested lot lot more on defense.
Brady needed defense, NOT Brady needed Belichick's defense.
Saying that about anything shady says is crazy
@@twizzy585ful With THE Brady of early 2000s, the Pats in last 3 seasons would be SB contender, and Belitard would look like a genius.
@@williamli6200 Brady was pivotal but to disregard the defense over the course of the pats dominance is ignorant and Bill was the head of the defense... he's a terrible GM
He's a good coach, but Brady was the secret ingredient
Brady isn’t just the best quarterback he is the literal best player ever!! Idk how idk why but you can’t coach that
I've been saying Andy Reid was a better head coach than Belichick for a while. Before Reid got Mahomes, he went to 4 NFC titles and a SB appearance with McNabb, coached Vick to the best season of his career, and In 5 seasons with Alex Smith, all 5 were winning seasons with 4 of those having playoff appearances. He's had success with multiple QBs outside of Mahomes while Belichick has struggled without Brady. The difference between him and Belichick is that Belichick got his generational QB earlier in his career with Brady, while Andy got his generational QB later in his career with Mahomes
Love big red, great at maximizing his qbs' talent (I think all his qbs literally had their best years with him) but his clock management in Philly was atrocious and cost him big games, and iirc he missed the playoffs because of that. Bill's clock management and understanding of the rules is top tier.
I’m glad people are finally willing to listen to this argument. Bill Belichick isn’t a bad coach but he’s definitely not the greatest coach of all time. If he wanted that honor, he should have retired when Tom left
He's a mediocre coach and a terrible GM.
And he wanted all the glory to himself so he thought he would win a ring without Tom… and it won’t happen and I think the world is starting to see that.
No kidding he proved it when he got full of himself and tried using a DC as an OC and continues to neglect spending serious draft capital on skill positions.
@@chadwickerman hahah u r funny
He's a bad coach. It's clear now
Take out the Brady years, and Belichick has a losing record! JUST THE FACTS!!!!
Belicheck benched the superbowl hero Malcolm butler during the pats eagles superbowl and costed Brady another chip. Never forget that.
@@thefitnesslife4988 nah butler was terrible in playoffs that’s why he was benched
@@thefitnesslife4988 Belichick threw that game in a temper-tantrum because Kraft made him trade Jimmy G, when Bill was wanting to trade Brady! He cost the Patriots MORE than just a Super Bowl - he cost them the historic opportunity to be the FIRST franchise to win 3 in a row! I would have fired him for THAT!!!!
@@Alex-sf9boEric Rowe who played in place of Butler only played 3 games that season and was getting cooked all thought out that SB though 😂
@@dacryptkeeper6836exactly!!!!! I will never forgive him for that.
I mean... this really just speaks to how great Brady is people talk about mahomes as the goat now but really think about what these guys are saying and think that Brady only had a super team for bout 2 years of his career....
Even the two losses to the Giants under 20 points scored 😂😂😂😂😂🤡
What do you mean? Yeah he lost them two but I mean miracle catch off the helmet and all that but man think about this Brady played how many years and had how many superbowl appearances? Then look at the percentage of how many Superbowls Brady was in compared to how many years he played.... that's the most insane stat that will never happen again. And no other superstar in any sport can compare... I think it's close to 40% however if he had retired from New England than it would be like he was in half of them.... that's such an insane fact.. I'm a raiders fan unfortunately because it hurts and I hated Brady until the later years and then I cheered for him because I'm a fan of people making history
Non of Belichick coaching trees succeeded outside of N.E. It was because they didn't have Brady. Now Belichick is in the same boat. He has become an embarrassment just like his other coaches.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Bill O'Brien the HC was successful and Brian Flores in his short stint as a HC had a winning record and was only fired because he held a grudge against the organization for taking Tua over Herbert.
@@Lord_Clarke uhhhh....you got that info mostly wrong my brotha 🙏🏾 Brian was pushed out because he wasn't trying to TANK for Tua. He was offered $ for losing and that didn't sit well with him.
Your a clown Bill created that culture and you gonna believe in what these people say and what ur feeble mind thinks.... Je created culture from top to bottom.... first 3 super bowls were defensive driven. Just like the other one against the rams 13 years later..... you think Tom was gonna win if he got drafted in 6th round by another team do youuuuuu... I'll never understand the lack of depth people don't have.... I can paint a bigger picture ... I don't have time
Andd amoron
I agree with Joy that Bill has not evolved nor pivot from being defensive minded now the NFL is more offensive league and Bill is probably stubborn and since he push Tom out he’s reaping what he sow. Robert Kraft had to watch his adoptive son Tom win his 7th ring
It's that he didn't evolve🤔the point is that he is getting exposed. Brady covered his flaws
He Is too arrogant to evolve or perhaps a bit of a senile
Man I love when 25 say “I don’t see no growth, I don’t see no developments”.🤣🤣🤣
Sure has. Brady was the key.
Yup. Bill's system only works on the defensive side of the ball, not the offense.
And he had the nerve to think he ain’t need Brady in 2016 when he tried to replace him with jimmy g
@@bobbybetwirlin8442 Can't lie Jimmy was looking good though in that system.
Certainly not. If Tom didn’t have bill early he would have NEVER turned into what he did. They both helped each other at times in their careers.
@@corning1not THEE Greatest but, definitely a great QB
Joy felt that analogy by Acho 😂😂😂 shout out to Jason Taylor!!! MIA Legend! 💪🏾
Great takes always. Love the dynamic between the four of you. James Jones was the perfection addition to take this quartet to the next level!! Best move! Keep the content coming!!! Loving it!!
James Jones is an awful addition.……. 5:36 “his legacy has absolutely tooken a hit”. This brotha is on here saying “tooken”…not “taken” but tooken…..I am embarrassed
Nah, James has been far from perfect, but he did have a solid take on this segment.
@@tmc31390 maybe so Huey but it was some cringe moments listening to him get to that point. Does he always create f'd up words like he did in this vid when he makes his points?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣@@crittoneida958 like why young dough boy told young ricky not to bring that football in boyz in da hood ☠☠☠
...Belichick usta trade all his first round picks for a whole bunch of 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks then go head and make pro bowlers out of those same late round picks...what it boiled down to was when you got Brady and you winning, players step up to they highest potential ( remember Troy Brown playing corner? lol )...I call it the "Jordan Effect" but in this case it was the "Brady Effect"
Pete Carroll was not the HC when the Seahawks went to the SB with Hasselbeck.
As a patriot fan…i have to agree 100% Bill has not done anything after TB12 left and it def showing clearly that he is not the best coach but a good defensive mind coach.
And thus we finally understand the saying, "coaches coach. players play."
Shady you the man, Preach!
Look, there is no doubt Bill is a very knowledgeable coach. However, Tom was the leader of the team. All Bill can do is grumble. He inspires no one with out Tom's winning discipline and leadership.
Belichick always had good to great defenses the problem was having him drafting the offensive players and being the GM
ALL HE NEEDS IS A QB .I'M NOT KNOCKING ON mac ..but
No better example than him taking N'Keal Harry over AJ Brown.
@@FrizzKid05as a pat fan om still annoy by that draft the crazy part they could of got aj brown and Metcalf.
@@FrizzKid05 both are bums
certainly you guys could do better than Bill .NOT
Easily the best and most entertaining sports talk show around. Love you all!
BB was an economics major and is good at numbers. But he is not a good GM or a 'player's coach' and upset the team numerous times, including TB12, with his moves based on money and or something personal and not on what was best for the morale of the team. But Brady held the locker room together through all the chaos. At times BB looked heartless, like holding out Butler in the Philly SB.
Life without Brady
Mike Tomlin has been an awesome coach without needing an elite quarterback the last few seasons. Can we talk about him?
The Steelers has done nothing in a decade and a half. He wins regular season games then does nothing come playoff time. Last time they got past the wildcard was 2017. Don’t let his wins fool you, he’s done nothing since 2009. And when he was winning a lot, he had elite talent on both sides of the ball including and elite qb in Big Ben. Kenny Pickett has been awful. What are you watching?
I've been impressed by Joy's growth she really has been making alot of great points compared to the other guys
she has bums for co=host
Just want to point out... John Madden still has the highest winning percentage of any head coach.
And has his own video game that belichecks never been in
Madden is better than belicheeet
@@user-tm8sc2kz8f🙄🙄
And only has 1 ring.
@@hitek9too255 without needing Tom Brady to get it for him
Bill is who we thought he was🥶🥶🥶😤😤😤
Some people fall into pits of despair. Some fall into pits of money. That’s fate. Tom Brady fell into Bills lap and changed his fate for the better
Turns out Brady didnt just take average players to the superbowl, he took an average coach/GM
Ooouuuu....that was Mike Holgrem in Seattle with Hasselback my brotha James 🙏🏾
So wait Joy’s point was that if Bill retired we wouldn’t have known so his legacy as a great coach is still valid because he didn’t retire and so we do know? 😵💫😵💫
Brady made Belichick and The Patriots. Patriots fans know that.
No we don't baby ain't tackle or int no passes
football fans *
Brady was groomed through Spygate his first 7 seasons that's why Brady became what was for 20 something years.Belicheck is grooming Mac Jones naturally not through spygate so that's why we see more of a struggle or failure... can't steal playbooks and signals no more.
@@learnwithsofiajade Patriots fans we seen him more often
@@colbyryans1018 so what did Belichick do ??
He's only still coaching in order to prove it wasn't just Brady that made new England good but it really was
Exactly give Brady "his" statue infront of Foxborough
Shout out to all the people who said Tom had no talent and it was all Bills system that made him look good
GREAT SHOWS GANG!!!
That was great team work and was fun watching!!!
I think it depends on how you define legacy. You can't start erasing Belichick's resume like he wasn't the coach when they won those 6 rings, but I do think it provides more context for his resume. Part of legacy is your accomplishments, but the other part is people's opinion of you. The opinion now is that he wouldn't have gotten those 6 rings without Brady and that absolutely damages his legacy
how many rings phil jackson has without michael jordan and kobe bryant? reid without mahomes?
Reid without mahomes is way better than Bill without brady
Love it. Love it. Love it. Belichick exposed for the middling coach he is. Without Tom Brady he has never accomplished jack. And saddest of all, Belichick would never give Tom credit for his contribution. Now that's low. Time to give Belichick the boot. 🥾🏉
there is a lot of debate on Tom Brady being a system quarterback and how much credit could be given to him vs Bill and the defense. There’s not really that debate around Mahomes and Reid. Let that sink in for a moment.
achos analogy with the rich kid stuff was nice asl 😂😂 hit him with the mmmm
Every team Andy Reid has been on, they’ve found ways to lose.
Andy has only won because of mahomes
@@luffymonkey9552wdym chief Ms we playoff contenders with Alex smith
Joy can make ALL the excuses she wants, Belicheck is an EMBARRASSMENT without Brady! And I'm not surprised, I tried to warn the Belicheck WORSHIPPERS that this would happen!
Padawan Tom Brady to Darth Belichick: what have you become?
Darth Belichick: “what you made me…” (red lightsaber ignites).
Shady McCoy is 100% right
Acho actually used Phil Jackson as an example with winning with 2 different players and both are jordan and Kobe 2 of greatest players to play the game. What has coach pop done without Tim Duncan you need talent to win. And patriots lost the goat Tom Brady Ann not only him other hall of famers and great players.
People don't bring that up enough like this is an entire rebuild none of the players now have played with Brady they weren't there 4 years ago
Yeah that wasn’t a great example 😂
Like it was him and Kobe Bryant ain’t all that 🤣
Pop was still a playoff team with Kawhi and with Derozen. It wasn't until they traded them away and tanked that the spurs started stinking.
Pop was a great coach for years pre Duncan made WCF in 1995 and won 60 games and was Zaza cheap shot away from maybe winning the title the year after Duncan retired very bad analogy
Pop has made the playoffs more times post Duncan than Bill has made the playoffs post Brady
Brady was offense, defense and locker room. They had good defenses . Not great defensive players.
Your crazy , Ty law , Willie, teddy , Richard , Vince and the list goes on all pro bowlers and hall of famers
@@speedlife301 Bro they all play together as team, that's what they had. None of those you are mentioning better that Donald ,Von Miller Ray Lewis Ed Reed ect . The list goes on.
@@fazalishmail1386facts and plus the players he mentioned its only two hall of famers out that group
@@speedlife301Willie McGinest tedy bruschi are not in football Hall of Fame
Both Willie McGinest and tedy bruschi went to two pro bowls each that's it you act like they went to the pro bowl every year they played Willie McGinest tedy bruschi I don't think we'll ever be selected to the football Hall of Fame Vince wilfork is not in the football Hall of Fame Vince wilfork went to 5 pro bowl
Joy needs to stop making excuses for Belichick.
TY Speak
Joey muthafuckin Gibbs... nobody did more with less... 5 Superbowl app... with no franchise QB
Let’s not forget. At his peak WITH Tom Brady. Lost the SB to Doug Pederson and Nick Foles 😉
Because of ego…
@@KiLlACaMrOn94 yeah but who threw for more than 500 yards and pulled out all stops to win it?
(Also helped the Eagles did a fake “closed training session” knowing the Patriots would spy on it 😆)
@@KiLlACaMrOn94 also who could’ve seen Nick Foles playing the game of his life on the biggest of stages after a few not very good games after Wentz went down?
And Eli Manning TWICE!
Patriots lost because Belichek decides to bench Malcom Butler for reasons still unknown. I wish Kraft got rid of Belichek instead of Brady
The problem is bill as a GM. His downfall is him wanting control over everything which has led him to prioritizing the teams defense rather than offense. If he had the ability draft good WRs (something pats are terrible at) over the last couple years or trade for them, we would have been fine this year
I don't think he prioritizes the defense. He just doesn't know what to do with the offense. Last 5 first round picks for the Patriots, DB, OL, QB, S, WR. That's 3 out of 5 that are offensive players. He just can't select or develop those players correctly.
Bill cost Tom Brady several Superbowls especially benching Malcolm Butler.
Nah had nothing to do with that butler was awful in the playoffs and the pats held the rams the next year to 3 points without butler
Joy made some good points that I think went over their heads lol 🤷🏽♂️🤦🏾♂️😂😂
Exactly, Brady played with great defenses
Acho used Phill Jackson who had kobe and shaq.
Who won NOTHING before phiL just like MICHAEL JORDAN
Bill takes a little bit of a hit because unlike other coaches, bill is shopping for the groceries and it isn’t working out with him putting together his own team
He has to change to today's players.
That is why he always had a veteran team with a sprinkle of youth
What's in the dark. Comes out in the light. Numbers don't lie.
Joy is the best !!! ❤
Alex Curry >>
Let’s take away Lawrence Taylor from Bill Parcel , Kobe Jordan , and Shauq from Phill. Zonka from Shula..Emmit,Playmaker and Troy from Jimmy🤔 FOH they all average without Great Players 😑
@@peeweedee1Comedythat would be a valid argument however Bill picks the players, so that’s also on him
Naaaaah.
love the logic and common sense in this debate by these guys/gal. Great stuff
Matt Hassellback was with Mike Holmgren not Pete Carrol but he did do a good job moving from Wilson to Geno though!
Bill is a terrible GM. If they had a more competent GM their talent (especially from the draft in the last 10 years) would have been a lot better and Tom could have won a even more SBs.
Bill is still a great coach, he’s just a horrific GM. Mainly the lack of talent is what Brady covered up.
Well said. This is how I feel as well. It was definitely the two working together that played a role in their success. And Brady masked Bill’s deficiencies, while Bill was able to coach up defense and the special teams with guys off the street. The argument has swung too far in favor of Brady in the last couple years and since Brady won a SB with the Bucs. The truth is somewhere closer to the middle and they needed each other. Arians was a great coach as well.
@@hawkner Compare what Belichick's defense did in 2001 playoff to Jeff Fishers's defense did in 1999 playoff. Remember, Belichick invested lot lot more on defense.
Brady needed defense, NOT Brady needed Belichick's defense.
Pretty much
“25” is right. That’s just an honest observation.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Seattle go to the super bowl with Matt hasselbeck but wasn't Mike homegren the head coach not Pete Carroll 🤔
I think you are right
@@StraightBleach ok because I was looking at James Jones kind of funny 😂
I think what people fail to realize is how much losing an asset like Tom Brady, who you've had for over a decade, can leave an organization bankrupt for a few years. They have less investments in young talent compared to other teams. Investments take time to flourish and drafting to rebuild takes a few years
Brady took pay cuts to allow them to build a team. Bill just sucks at building offenses that can compete.
@@FrizzKid05that truth
Product of Brady
Delusion.
@@HopefulNihilist You are clueless.
Belitard needed *high QUALITY plays from his QB with a CHEAP squad.* that is what Brady did for him.
@@williamli6200
How many SuperBowls does Brady have without a top 5 defense? I will wait.
@@HopefulNihilist firs SB, #6 defense on TPA, #24 on TPA.
BTW, in 2003 and 2004, Jets, Bills and and Dolphins scored total 76 points in 6 games, and they played tons of offenses ranked in 20s.
@@HopefulNihilist You don't have to wait, I never deny Belichick's greatness against lousy offense and 1-dimensional offense.
His defense just couldn't be relied on in 4th quarters, and NO CHANCE against elite versatile offense.
How is this even a question anymore?
I think Bill is a major case of "wait long enough to see you self become the villain" he might not be the greatest, but this conversation would have never been had when brady had just left
Bill with Tom has dominated the NFL for 20years. He has a drought for a very few years and you want to judge hus whole career on it. 3rd most wins, 6 SB and 3x COY... nothing to look down on.
The games the pats played with Brady looked a lot like the types of games Brady was playing at Michigan. Just saying
Shady with the HOT take but He’s RIGHT!
Belichick has always had a Top 5 Defensive unit. Paired with Tom Brady, THATS why they won so much. It wasn’t one or the other. Brady needs a Top 5 defense to win a SB, & BB needs a Brady. But it’s harder to replace a Brady than it is a Top 5 Defense.
Id10t, Compare what Belichick's defense did in 2001 playoff to Jeff Fishers's defense did in 1999 playoff. Remember, Belichick invested lot lot more on defense.
Brady needed defense, NOT Brady needed Belichick's defense.
No one mentioned Brady’s offense ranked high than Bill’s defense most the years
Not true, 2011 the patriots had the 31st ranked defense and it was the first time the last ranked defense to ever go to the superbowl!!!!! Just saying!!!
Tom allowed Bill to have a top defence as he kept the other team's offence off the field for such large chunks of time the defence was nearly always fresh. The minute Tom leaves and the offence starts turning the ball over you put the defence under so much more preasure.@@williamli6200
@@jianhkuangGreat point and most people don't know this but Tom Brady led a top 10 scoring offense every year but one. They were 12th in 2003. In fact if you average out the offensive scoring ranks for the Patriots with Brady as the QB you get a top 5 offense as an average. Under Brady the Patriots set a still NFL record of 14 consecutive seasons with 400+ points. Tom Brady was the single greatest offensive player the NFL has ever seen and he did it with nobodies.
Joy is the most sensible, unbiased person on this show and she shows it every show
😂
@@officialchoccypop ???
Joy's making a fool of herself YET again. She's so fun to watch !
All I’d say is that if we’re gonna discredit Bill, Pop should get the same criticism. Cause Pop and Duncan were basically the patriots of the NBA
Same goes for Pop and Tim Duncan.