I taught canoeing for 23 years before i took up kayaking. And yes we use nearly the same biomechanics...bottom arm straight, push with the top hand at eye level, rotate the torso. It is different only in that it is done in the vertical plane. 😀
So, it is Sunday morning. Guess what I’m doing? You got it right. I am drinking my coffee and watching Brett teaching us about kayaking. Today, he presented the forward stroke. I had thought I mastered it. I did and did it all wrong. I have been pulling not pushing. I have rotated my core greater than the 10 to 2. Only saving grace is that my feet were pushing correctly (at least when I remembered to use them). No wonder I am in physical therapy for shoulder pain. Back to the water I go and try to do it Brett’s way. Timely and powerful information. Thanks for the education and your commitment to the environment.
Just did my first kayak race--an 18.5 mile "marathon." Was thinking about the push, torso rotation, pushing with the water side foot, and hand across the face the whole time. And I was able to finish without needing to stop and rest. Thanks for the tips!
Fantastic help! I am only a month into exploring my recreational kayak and have been taking on a lot of water on my paddles - ugh! This morning I worked on implementing your tips, most importantly shorter strokes and lifting the blade out of the water vertically. It seems silly simple, but it really helped. There was no water in the boat and no evidence of slower speeds. Thanks so much!
I like your presentation! I always do the talk and demonstration first too, and splash around a bit. Then I have paddlers maintain a stationary position so I can go off a ways and paddle towards and then past them. I do this to demonstrate both a 3 mph and a 5 mph forward paddle stroke. Then after we go off and paddle. I set a 3 mph pace. Its not a race, its just the pace. If they can't keep up or if they are too out of breath or tired after a bit, they get it! Its not their physical conditioning or their hull design, its their forward paddle stroke efficiency. Thats the best technique I have found to help people get a better forward stroke. I can always talk till I'm blue in the face or piddle paddle, but getting out of first gear just seems to work the best. Just my 2 cents!
@@AdventureOtaku I have a visual line-of-sight reference for a measured statute mile along the shoreline where I paddle with new folks. (I think statute miles are easier to think with than nautical miles, IMHO). So, when we go for a 3 mph paddle, we go for 1 mile. That would be 20 minutes. When I get there, I turn around and time their arrival. While they are resting, I do some simple math to figure out their speed and ask them which muscle groups they feel they energized. It seems like that is the best way I have found to help them self identify with direct feedback about their own technique.
Ive done similar to this, I have also used a GPS for live speed info with people. The advantage of nautical miles/knots is that it makes navigation easier if you use charts. 1 minute of latitude is a nautical mile (which is then easily measured on the side of the chart). 1 knot is 1 nautical mile an hour. Its pretty simple, and super convenient. But if you haven't made an effort to get in that grove, it definitely seems harder than statute miles. I get it.
@@AdventureOtaku Oh I agree on the benefit of chart use of nautical mile, and I do get that. What I was thinking of is just how I go about; "Hey, lets do this..." kind of thing when I'm sharing a paddle with new folks. Its totally less complicated and unscripted. I've got electronics I use too for solo trips and other things but it always seems to be way more fun and organic to come up with some fun ways to demonstrate when someone asks me to explain something like the forward stroke. Making it fun tends to eliminate the mansplaining vibe too!
How much hip rotation are you doing? I feel like touring kayaks are quite constricting for the legs due to knee braces. In racing kayaks where you really rotate the hips you are completely free.
Most touring kayakers aren’t taught to rotate at the hips. We teach it to rotate at the core. (The terminology I use is imagine a pencil sticking out of your belly button, it should move from 10 to 2 and back to 10 on each stroke.) The hips aren’t usually locked in - though sometimes they are, but you are right, thigh just above the knee and the feet are firmly (or should be) in place.
Ive been trying to emphasize proper paddling technique since upgrading my boat from a 10' rec to a 14' touring (jackson journey). Ive went for about 5 paddles now and Im still struggling. I find that if im not super focused on all the mechanics; torso rotation, arm position/elbows, paddle entry/exit and active feet, then my boat will quickly start drifting one way and it totally disrupts my flow. It really feels similar to a golf swing; where it appears easy but all the small mechanics must be fine tuned for consistent and proper results.
I think the golf analogy isn't bad. DOn't focus on all at once.... do one at a time. Work on the push. When you get that down, rotation.... then leg drive. take it slow.
Yeah, you could. I think I say it opposite, because that emphasizes where the power is coming from, across your body. But sure, if it is easier to follow. Water hand/push foot.
Or you could focus on really feeling the water, feeling the push on both the paddle (with the air hand- or the push hand) and the push on the foot brace. Incorporating listening for the feel helps with learning faster; feedback is so valuable.
Yes! But… that works well for kinesthetic learners. But there is so much going on for new paddlers that can be hard to focus on. Some students have a hard time noticing when the wind changes
You describe the fwd stroke well, but you are mostly arm paddling. And you drop the top hand on every stroke. Also you aren't burying the blade at the catch.
@@virginiabeachpaddlesports5034 Ya know, it is always surf ski paddlers who use wing blades who come here and tell me I am paddling a sea kayak wrong. Torso rotation is far more subtle in a sea kayak than a surf ski - and the dead give away of pulling the paddle is a bent elbow which I don’t have. The plant of the blade is completely different in a low angle paddle stroke compared to an aggressive high angle stroke like you use in a surf ski. And yeah, from time to time my hands dip. I actually did a video recently about how everyone - even me - makes this mistake. I would also add, it is not easy to to mount two cameras on a boat, explain how to do a forward stroke - remembering all you have to talk about - and do it perfectly. Sorry. Im not perfect. So I challenge you to do this perfectly, every week, for 5 years. Thanks for watching.
@@AdventureOtaku I constantly wonder about how much torso rotation is actually happening in a normal (typical) sea kayak stroke (so I like your 10-2 cue). And whether holding the olympic sprint kayak or surf-ski type stroke as the paragon of paddling virtue is valid or even helps. Typical speed and effort for sea kayaking is fairly modest (for me when I check my HR when paddling is lower than walking, which always surprises me). As you want to paddle faster, or need more power (stronger wind, towing say) then I do find a higher angle and more focus on pushing with my leg helps. Also interesting about the trailing hand comment. After a lot of trying to actually figure out what I do paddling I have boiled things down to start the catch further away than you think (helps you sit upright) and end before you think you should. This seems to keep the stroke in the "power zone" and lets me up my cadence. I validated this while I was towing a client (I guide day trips in the 1000 Islands) and could try different things and I really noticed that I was moving better with this shorter, faster, more forward stroke. One other thing I observe frequently is that novice paddlers don't realize that the water paddle blade moves away from the boat during the stroke. As soon as you try to do this your "air" arm has to go above the shoulder, with all the associated issues. This was a very useful video, helped my thought process. Thanks for that.
@AndrewMoizer I use the Olympic example not as a “you should paddle like this” more as a this is an example of rotation for people who say they can’t see it. Yes! Plant the blade as far forward as you can and pull it out at your hip. And to how much rotation is really. Happening… less than it Olympics but still very important. It’s key.
A bit of an offtopic, since I hear and see this often: garbage next to garbage bin at the beginning of the video. Typically those garbages are not thrown around next to bin by careless people. Usually you find those garbages lying around on the ground in the morning time. The birds. Birds look for food from bins and tend to through garbage out of the bin 😇.
It absolutely could be birds…. But I will say Norfolk is a small city, and like many small cities litter is a real problem. And now that I think of it I have seen surprisingly few seabirds… but could absolutely be birds, lets hope.
I taught canoeing for 23 years before i took up kayaking. And yes we use nearly the same biomechanics...bottom arm straight, push with the top hand at eye level, rotate the torso. It is different only in that it is done in the vertical plane. 😀
THANK YOU! I can’t believe it took this long for someone to answer this question.
So, it is Sunday morning. Guess what I’m doing? You got it right. I am drinking my coffee and watching Brett teaching us about kayaking. Today, he presented the forward stroke. I had thought I mastered it. I did and did it all wrong. I have been pulling not pushing. I have rotated my core greater than the 10 to 2. Only saving grace is that my feet were pushing correctly (at least when I remembered to use them). No wonder I am in physical therapy for shoulder pain. Back to the water I go and try to do it Brett’s way. Timely and powerful information. Thanks for the education and your commitment to the environment.
Thank you Bob. Let me know if you need help.
Great, comprehensive explanation of the steps needed for good mechanics. Wish I'd come across this when I first started.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for stopping by.
Just did my first kayak race--an 18.5 mile "marathon." Was thinking about the push, torso rotation, pushing with the water side foot, and hand across the face the whole time. And I was able to finish without needing to stop and rest. Thanks for the tips!
My pleasure. Glad it was successful!
Fantastic help! I am only a month into exploring my recreational kayak and have been taking on a lot of water on my paddles - ugh! This morning I worked on implementing your tips, most importantly shorter strokes and lifting the blade out of the water vertically. It seems silly simple, but it really helped. There was no water in the boat and no evidence of slower speeds. Thanks so much!
Glad I was able to help. Looking forward to your growing skills.
Thanks. Did 4 yrs MA. All power comes f/ the hips, boxing too. And then there's Aikido which is fluid.
Yup, I just gave a private lesson to a guy who had a history of aikido. Picked up the forward stroke super quick.
I like your presentation! I always do the talk and demonstration first too, and splash around a bit. Then I have paddlers maintain a stationary position so I can go off a ways and paddle towards and then past them. I do this to demonstrate both a 3 mph and a 5 mph forward paddle stroke. Then after we go off and paddle. I set a 3 mph pace. Its not a race, its just the pace. If they can't keep up or if they are too out of breath or tired after a bit, they get it! Its not their physical conditioning or their hull design, its their forward paddle stroke efficiency. Thats the best technique I have found to help people get a better forward stroke. I can always talk till I'm blue in the face or piddle paddle, but getting out of first gear just seems to work the best. Just my 2 cents!
That sounds like a good technique. Ill give it a try. Thanks for stopping by.
@@AdventureOtaku I have a visual line-of-sight reference for a measured statute mile along the shoreline where I paddle with new folks. (I think statute miles are easier to think with than nautical miles, IMHO). So, when we go for a 3 mph paddle, we go for 1 mile. That would be 20 minutes. When I get there, I turn around and time their arrival. While they are resting, I do some simple math to figure out their speed and ask them which muscle groups they feel they energized. It seems like that is the best way I have found to help them self identify with direct feedback about their own technique.
Ive done similar to this, I have also used a GPS for live speed info with people. The advantage of nautical miles/knots is that it makes navigation easier if you use charts. 1 minute of latitude is a nautical mile (which is then easily measured on the side of the chart). 1 knot is 1 nautical mile an hour. Its pretty simple, and super convenient. But if you haven't made an effort to get in that grove, it definitely seems harder than statute miles. I get it.
@@AdventureOtaku Oh I agree on the benefit of chart use of nautical mile, and I do get that. What I was thinking of is just how I go about; "Hey, lets do this..." kind of thing when I'm sharing a paddle with new folks. Its totally less complicated and unscripted. I've got electronics I use too for solo trips and other things but it always seems to be way more fun and organic to come up with some fun ways to demonstrate when someone asks me to explain something like the forward stroke. Making it fun tends to eliminate the mansplaining vibe too!
Lot of moving parts. Thanks for breaking the forward stroke down for us. Oh, thanks for helping tidy up the lake. #HealThePlanet
Indeed a lot of moving parts. Which is why I like to make it pieces that can be handled one at a time. Thanks for watching and commenting.
How much hip rotation are you doing? I feel like touring kayaks are quite constricting for the legs due to knee braces. In racing kayaks where you really rotate the hips you are completely free.
Most touring kayakers aren’t taught to rotate at the hips. We teach it to rotate at the core. (The terminology I use is imagine a pencil sticking out of your belly button, it should move from 10 to 2 and back to 10 on each stroke.) The hips aren’t usually locked in - though sometimes they are, but you are right, thigh just above the knee and the feet are firmly (or should be) in place.
Ive been trying to emphasize proper paddling technique since upgrading my boat from a 10' rec to a 14' touring (jackson journey). Ive went for about 5 paddles now and Im still struggling. I find that if im not super focused on all the mechanics; torso rotation, arm position/elbows, paddle entry/exit and active feet, then my boat will quickly start drifting one way and it totally disrupts my flow. It really feels similar to a golf swing; where it appears easy but all the small mechanics must be fine tuned for consistent and proper results.
I think the golf analogy isn't bad. DOn't focus on all at once.... do one at a time. Work on the push. When you get that down, rotation.... then leg drive. take it slow.
Thank you, learned a great deal and have paddling wrong for some time. Wouldn’t it be easier to say and to follow: foot press with water hand?
Yeah, you could. I think I say it opposite, because that emphasizes where the power is coming from, across your body. But sure, if it is easier to follow. Water hand/push foot.
Or you could focus on really feeling the water, feeling the push on both the paddle (with the air hand- or the push hand) and the push on the foot brace. Incorporating listening for the feel helps with learning faster; feedback is so valuable.
Yes! But… that works well for kinesthetic learners. But there is so much going on for new paddlers that can be hard to focus on. Some students have a hard time noticing when the wind changes
Have you ever taught the forward stroke with a Greenland paddle?
Nope, I have played with Greenland paddles from time to time, but they really don’t sing to me. Sorry.
You describe the fwd stroke well, but you are mostly arm paddling. And you drop the top hand on every stroke. Also you aren't burying the blade at the catch.
@@virginiabeachpaddlesports5034 Ya know, it is always surf ski paddlers who use wing blades who come here and tell me I am paddling a sea kayak wrong. Torso rotation is far more subtle in a sea kayak than a surf ski - and the dead give away of pulling the paddle is a bent elbow which I don’t have. The plant of the blade is completely different in a low angle paddle stroke compared to an aggressive high angle stroke like you use in a surf ski. And yeah, from time to time my hands dip. I actually did a video recently about how everyone - even me - makes this mistake. I would also add, it is not easy to to mount two cameras on a boat, explain how to do a forward stroke - remembering all you have to talk about - and do it perfectly. Sorry. Im not perfect. So I challenge you to do this perfectly, every week, for 5 years. Thanks for watching.
@@AdventureOtaku I constantly wonder about how much torso rotation is actually happening in a normal (typical) sea kayak stroke (so I like your 10-2 cue). And whether holding the olympic sprint kayak or surf-ski type stroke as the paragon of paddling virtue is valid or even helps. Typical speed and effort for sea kayaking is fairly modest (for me when I check my HR when paddling is lower than walking, which always surprises me). As you want to paddle faster, or need more power (stronger wind, towing say) then I do find a higher angle and more focus on pushing with my leg helps.
Also interesting about the trailing hand comment. After a lot of trying to actually figure out what I do paddling I have boiled things down to start the catch further away than you think (helps you sit upright) and end before you think you should. This seems to keep the stroke in the "power zone" and lets me up my cadence. I validated this while I was towing a client (I guide day trips in the 1000 Islands) and could try different things and I really noticed that I was moving better with this shorter, faster, more forward stroke.
One other thing I observe frequently is that novice paddlers don't realize that the water paddle blade moves away from the boat during the stroke. As soon as you try to do this your "air" arm has to go above the shoulder, with all the associated issues.
This was a very useful video, helped my thought process. Thanks for that.
@AndrewMoizer I use the Olympic example not as a “you should paddle like this” more as a this is an example of rotation for people who say they can’t see it.
Yes! Plant the blade as far forward as you can and pull it out at your hip.
And to how much rotation is really. Happening… less than it Olympics but still very important. It’s key.
A bit of an offtopic, since I hear and see this often: garbage next to garbage bin at the beginning of the video. Typically those garbages are not thrown around next to bin by careless people. Usually you find those garbages lying around on the ground in the morning time. The birds. Birds look for food from bins and tend to through garbage out of the bin 😇.
It absolutely could be birds…. But I will say Norfolk is a small city, and like many small cities litter is a real problem. And now that I think of it I have seen surprisingly few seabirds… but could absolutely be birds, lets hope.