Searching for Fallen Angels' Lost Lens
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- Sorting through obscure sources and decades of conflicting rumors to finally identify the ultra-wide lens used to shoot Wong Kar-wai's Fallen Angels.
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How Hitchcock Turned a Town Into a Film Set: • How Hitchcock Turned a...
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Works Cited:
"It's All About Trust." Cinema Papers, No. 111 (p.28-33, 62-63), Aug. 1996
Teo, Stephen. "Johnnie To and the Hong Kong Action Film." (p.79, 259), 2007
Gary. "A Coin of Wong Kar-wai." City Entertainment (Hong Kong) No. 427 (p.33-35), 1995
Brunette, Peter. "Wong Kar-wai." (p.61, 62, 116, 144), 2005
Links:
Part 1: An Introduction
"Fallen Angels"
esfilmstylesandmovements.word...
"Not back to the future, but ahead to the past"
www.davidbordwell.net/blog/200...
"Wong Kar Wai's "Fallen Angels" and 6.5mm non-fisheye lenses" (Jan. 16, 2013)
www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...
"Gel/lighting choice for dream sequence in bathroom: tips/advice?" (July 28, 2015)
cinematography.com/index.php?...
"Are Wong Kar-wai's new 4k restorations better than the originals?"
www.scmp.com/magazines/style/...
Part 2: The 6.5mm
"Anyone have any info about the lens(es) used by Christopher Doyle on Wong Kar Wai's 'Fallen Angels'?" (r/cinematography, Aug. 22, 2018)
/ anyone_have_any_info_a...
"Zoom lenses..." (Jan. 21, 2004)
cinematography.com/index.php?...
Cinema Papers, No. 111
issuu.com/libuow/docs/cinemap...
"Repair: Cine-Nikkor 6.5mm f/1.9" (Apr. 14, 2021)
richardhaw.com/2021/04/14/rep...
"Cine-Nikkor" (lens series brocure)
www.savazzi.net/download/manua...
Part 3: Kinoptik 9.8mm
"Film Products from Century Precision Optics" (Sep. 1, 1995)
www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/0...
Carvalho. "The ambivalent identity of Wong Kar-wai's cinema." (p.162, 243), 2009
ateve.files.wordpress.com/201...
Motion Picture Lens Database
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Part 4: The 6.8mm
Protsenko. "The Emotional Cinema of Wong Kar-wai" (p.65, 156), 2018
www.tdx.cat/bitstream/handle/...
"Fallen Angels in the city of metaphors" (Feb. 28, 2014)
movie.douban.com/review/6566498/
Part 5: Deductions & Conclusions
Vantage Lens Table (Nov. 2014)
www.vantagefilm.com/file/edee...
Century 9.8mm Kinoptik Product Info
www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/0...
Additional vids:
Media Division: Legendary cine lenses on a budget - Zeiss Super Speeds vs Contax Zeiss
• Legendary cine lenses ...
BBC: Moving Pictures (with Wong Kar-wai & Christopher Doyle)
• Wong Kar Wai and Chris...
A Beautiful Evening (Fallen Angels featurette)
• [CC] Fallen Angels (19...
Timestamps:
00:00 Opening
00:40 Lens primer
03:37 An Introduction
04:48 The 6.5mm
08:51 Kinoptik 9.8mm
13:10 The 6.8mm
15:07 Deductions & Conclusions - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Fallen Angels and Chungking Express are sister films made fairly fast during/after the filming of Ashes of Time. One thing that I particularly remember is that a critic describes the use of wide lens in Fallen Angels and the use of long lens in Chungking Express, Fallen Angels is about “close but far” and Chungking Express is about “far but close”.
makes so much sense!
Yeah they didn't put any effort into promoting a tiny budget, tiny film stock product that was going to fail in a week's time and never make it.
If the original audience has almost completely forgotten the movie 🎬, the characters, the actors etc...somethings wrong.
If you look closely at the shots, especially while panning, you can see two different distortion patterns intersecting, a normal rectilinear distortion in the center and a slight barrel or fisheye effect at the edges, very indicative of a converter at least on non-zoom lenses
Have we considered a screw on wide angle adapter ?? There's a macro photographer i watch and he's built a few custom lenses --- i would love to hear his input
Or a YTer called Hyugen Optics - he's a lens wizard
Or a 180 degree fisheye meant for Medium format ?? Cropped on the 35mm frame ?
@@BracaPhoto thats something i was also thinking about. or a fisheye for 35mm photography, which would also mean a crop on 35mm movies: the size of the image on the film is 36x24mm for photography, but only 22x16mm for movies.
so would you think it's safe to say the ultra wide shots in the film that don't have tons of barrel distoration are just the kinoptik 9.8mm without the adaptor and then the ones with obvious barrel distoration (like the famous shot of the agent eating noodles at the end) is with adaptor on?
@@jiefuti That could be the secret they do not even speak of in the interview, or did not remember as clearly on the spot when that was taken/given, the article that proves the connection to the kinoptik, good idea, I just thought I was being pretentious and re-explaining what was already said, but I think yes, there is an element of shooting without it and just cropping any frame the image circle didn't fill, or perhaps the kinoptik had a large image circle for safety against future large formats, which was common in designs around and post-70mm / todd AO / VistaVision / scope and all the others that didn't last, like used even in star wars '77, the converter needed for anamorphic on the old cameras, and that went in FRONT of the shooting lens, which was very tricky to shade without a full black wrap from flare, especially in the sun I Imagine, as it is an open-body alignment, which is most uncommon outside of perhaps geared-large format where the elements of lens and film plane are more organically and without touching or external security barrel and only a fragile baffle for the image cone, but if it was good enough for the aristocrats taking photos for engraving reference and eventually photo duplication, so its not a bad limitation to have/place on oneself
This was randomly thrown at me by TH-cam, from someone i don't know, about a film I've never heard of. And yet it had me engrossed the entire almost 20 minutes. Not just awesome sluthing, but such a well presented , fascinating narrative. Thank you.
definitely watch the film (and its predecessor chungking express)
This video is better than most multi-million dollar Netflix documentaries. Nice work!
Hey just letting you know I just credited this video in a brief review I did on the film, as this video is incredible.
Always cool to see new people dipping into Hong Kong cinema, thanks!
Well done, really well done. Finally a film analysis video that isn't pretentious or shallow.
Nerdwriter cough
Except he obviously can't tell the differene between a wide angle and telephoto lens.
This is one of my favorite videos ever, such an obscure topic on a kinda obscure movie. This why TH-cam was made, this is the internet or whatever.
I'd love to know who determines what youtube was made for.
The super wide attachment would've been my second guess if there was no standalone super wide-angle lens for 35mm use. At that time these attachments were quite popular. Lens manufacturers even produced these attachments for lenses used in 8mm and 16mm format. I've had a Schneider super wide angle which is extremely useful as it not just looks cool but in that range DoF range extends greatly. At large f-stops you don't really have to worry about missing focus, so after a certain aperture it works like a zone focus lens. I guess around T2/2.8 infinity focus is achieved from around 1 meters.
Have you tried contacting Doyle himself? It would be nice to hear his answer.
this really reminded me why crediting is important
A measure of how rare such lenses are, Nikon's 6mm f/2.8 fisheye Nikkor sold at auction for US$145,000 a few years ago. Great video, well researched.
This video is a masterpiece on it's own! I came here right after finishing Fallen Angels for the first time and I am in awe of the movie itself, the neo-noir nostalgic feel that it has, the story and the cinematography.
Crazy stuff. I'm very glad I subscribed even though you haven't uploaded in 2 years. Keep your own pace and as long as the videos are always this consistently good, I'll keep watching.
Brilliant man! I have been wondering about this for about a year now and you cracked it! So grateful, many thanks!!!
Thanks so much for sorting this out and the well done video presenting it. The wide angle perspective is an essential critical part of this wonderful film, but like you said, is just one important piece of a number of other fantastic elements. I have to go watch Fallen Angels again immediately!
I love how to the point and well-edited this vid is, while not sacrificing any detail to achieve it. I really hope you do keep making more, your work's great.
Brilliant! Thanks for not jumping to lazy conclusions. I deeply appreciate that you put in the work to figure this out so thoroughly. Thank you!
Wow, this video is so good. Love seeing fallen angels being talked about on this platform especially about the lens too.
I have no idea why this is in Gokanaru's Hong Kong Chronicle's playlist but it was a damn good ride for someone who's never even heard of this movie, much less any of this stuff
I had no idea it was on that playlist until this comment - what a nice surprise, Gokanaru does great work. Gotta thank him for force-feeding my favorite Hong Kong film and director to new people.
incredible research. out of all of wkw's films, Fallen Angels has always stuck with me but i had no idea why. it was through these specific camera choices and your research did i realize how special it was. thank you for this!
Super interesting find. I have been interested in the background of film art for a long time, but I have never dealt with this topic before and found it very fascinating. I'm looking forward to the next video.
Dude! Every couple of years I try to find this out. Today was one of those days! Thanks SO much! This is a huge itch I've had in my head ever so often and you stopped that itch! Awesome!
Oh my god, you're just crazy. I LOVE your research. Great job. Thank you!
Excellent documentation of your search! I've never seen the film before but the cinematography featured is lovely. What a bold choice to shoot with such a wide lens.
I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS, I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH TIME N DEDICATION IT TAKES!!! THANKYOUU!
awesome video and found!
I was lucky to be on set with doyle on Underwater Love. It was a life changing experience to see him preparing his shots few minute before (mostly focusing on color atmosphere and accesoiries), and just shoot as he feel. Great memory!
Well, this is a banger that I've watched more than once. Love how thorough you are. Great work.
Really great video; shines some clarity on what makes this film so unique and special, even among WKW's own works. :) Thanks for doing the sleuthing and for sharing it.
I finally watched Fallen Angels for the first time last night, and had been saving this video for when I did. Incredible research and video explaining how this masterpiece was shot!
Hell yeah! Just discovered this movie the other week after a deep-dive into super-wide photography and layering. Such an influential movie for this look. Thanks for your research
Had a blast watching this. Thank you and please keep em coming!
Your investigation is incredible! Thank you
I have been looking for this video for a long time. Thank you for making it.
thank you for solving a mystery I have wondered about since the 90s... thank you
I love that you linked everything in the description ty.
Funny thing. As soon as this video started, I thought this looks exactly like the Kinoptik that Kubrick used in Clockwork Orange, since I went to lengths to find out what that was 20 years ago, and it has such distinct distortion and chromatic aberration. Awesome
Bravo. Sensational. The world needs people like you that have love and curiosity for things. Hats off, man.
Genuinely had fun watching the video, bravo man, will share this!
Think 6.8mm would be way too wide for what I see and around 10mm range is more correct. One thing also is he was able to focus quite close to the subjects and see vignette of diopter filter in some of the shots and 6.8mm would been impossible to add a diopter. Also checking Hong Kong rental houses none of them have the adapter for the 6.8mm. Also Doyle had shot another movie called First Love with Eric Kot which got scenes with similar looks and listed only using Zeiss and Angenieux lenses only. Likely more be Zeiss 10mm and softness could been from an filter instead of that it’s a look from the lens itself as First love have the wide angle but without then softness.
6.5mm on a 16mm film camera tho
It would crop into about a 12mm or 14.
16mm film camera 🎥 I mean
Lol just watched the whole video they used 35mm nvm
@@shanecampbell288 yo Im confused , this doesnt look like 6.5 , does he mean 6.5 full frame on 35mm?
Fallen angels is my fav movie ever and this was so interesting and informative!!! It made me fall in love with the movie all over again, thank u soo much
This is so impressive…Thanks for sharing the whole story about the journey 🤩
WatchingtheAerial... Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Glad to see you're still doing content. I subbed after I saw the Matrix vid. Also, great job with the research, I gotta watch Fallen Angels now.
I had to pause the video to subscribe. This is the hard hitting investigative journalist we need.
Such an amazing video. Made me comment, when mostly I never do. Looking forward to more from you, this was perfect.
Enjoyed this video a lot. Your passion for the magic of Film is obvious.
Fabulous research. Great and inspiring material and movies
Love the soundtrack for this video as much as the subject matter. Always loved that opening theme from The Wild Goose Lake, glad someone else appreciates it and used it in a video about another one of my favorite films
fun fact, Wild Goose Lake not only rules, it's just obscure enough that it doesn't set off youtube's crazy copyright sensors so i love getting to use music from it. chinese art house films no one else has seen are great for sourcing background music. if you haven't yet, check out Black Coal, Thin Ice and Night Train by the same director, Yi'nan Diao is awesome.
This is an excellent piece of research that has been presented beautifully! Great work! :)
Now THIS was genuinely interesting, great video and story man
Solid Research man! Very insightful, Keep up the good work!! 👍
oh my gosh this is amazing.. i’ve learnt more from this video than a whole 3 yrs of media
Oh my god, this might just be my favorite video on yt! Thanks for the research
this is one of the best videos I've ever seen, the research and storytelling is so good. cant believe i just found this lol
This video popped up on my home page, as a huge Wong Kar Wai fan and budding youtuber / film maker I loved it!
I'm utterly stunned about how amazing this is, this research, dude- 🙌
Great commentary and in-depth analysis!
So glad I've found your video. You did great man.
Congrats on this blowing up and getting that boost. Awesome video my man.
These videos are a treat, even for a neophyte.
This is probably the best lens documental I ever seen, congratulations, I loved it.
Just so happened to stumble on this after wondering the same thing. Excellent video.
What a great upload. I’m here in Hong Kong now starting to experiment filming. This is all absolutely fantastic
This is an AMAZING bit of sleuthing man. Great job. And super informative. Gave me some ideas on bits of glass to get for my kit. Thank you!
Dude this video is amazing. Good work!
This, is super interesting content! Thx you for taking your time in making this videos!
A fantastic technical exploration and a real gem of a video 👍
Awesome presentation!
Amazing research!
great work - so glad to see this answered!
Yoo, you just got a new subscriber. This is the niche content I’m here for. I wish you posted more often, but I’ll take what I can get. Can’t wait to follow you down your next rabbit hole.
Amazing research my guy!
Great Video. That looked amazing
Underrated movie & underrated youtube video! This was great, thanks
I think people don’t realize that focal length is equivalent to zoom, and what different length lens do is expand or contract the cone of vision. It’s almost like cropping. The real thing that changes the perspective of the image, is the camera’s distance from the subject. Meaning if you took a 35mm and a 100mm shot from the exact same location, cropping a section out of the wider 35mm shot will give you the same result as the 100mm shot, besides resolution, lens distortion, and artifacts ofc.
I know it's two years too late, but I happen to live pretty close to Doyle in Shanghai, and happened to bump into him couple of times, I will definitely mention your video and hopefully get a confirmation from him if he still remembers
Absolutely! Who knows what he'll remember, but if you find out anything, I'd love to add it as a note to my research on this.
It’s never too late. Please ask him
Let us know ❤
and what happened bro? its been 4 months lol
super well made and interesting video!
I love your videos, really great work! Nice to see you're still active :)
there actually are black vignettes on some unedited rushes from fallen angels
Outstanding analysis.
Dude awesome video; thank you for putting it together and great editing and narration. You certainly deserve a load more subs and a heap more views and i wish you the best in finding your audience.
I dunno why the youtube algorithm recommended this for me, as ive never seen the movie, but thank you.
Riveting scene choices, excellent voiceover, and great detective work all wrapped up into a great documentary type video.
Thank you for this.
Definitely subbed and onto watching some more of your videos
I sign below your comment.
@@_Just_Some1 for why?
Thank you so much for sharing your research!
Cool video... thank you for sharing!
And THIS is the proper research I wanted for a small project (and a bet) I'm attached ath the moment. Dude, you are an epic reseacher.
Excellent research! I really appreciate this video.
Congrats for the video amazing approach.
Fantastic work mate keep it coming!
The research was outstanding 👏👏
thanks you so much man , one of my favorite investigation video
Awesome to see you alive :3 Can't wait to enjoy the video at leisure later.
Such a great voice you have man keep doing these videos
bravo this is amazing investigative work into filmmaking history
Fascinating stuff! Truly impressive.
one of the most impressive videos ive seen great job !!
Thanks for the amazing video!
Now I can die in peace, thank you man❤️
Nice video - thanks for sharing this! Very informative, interesting, and with the narrative feel of a detective whodunnit.
fantastic presentation
amazing content, sensational great work!!
Really big research. I'm satisfied too!
Very interesting cinematic investigation. More content like this plz!