Join me in playing TrainStation2 today! Click pixelfederation.onelink.me/Aaa9/qbtxk28l to download and use code LUCAS for 10 free in-game gems! Thailand's Special Express 9 is one of Southeast Asia's most popular tourist trains, connecting the capital of Bangkok to Chiang Mai in the jungle-bound north. I took a ride on their deluxe first class sleeper car, including shower, food, and solo occupancy of the berth all the way to Chiang Mai and I really enjoyed the trip! Follow me on Twitter: @paul_winginit ¦ twitter.com/paul_winginit Follow me on Instagram: paul_winginit ¦ instagram.com/paul_winginit
I did the same journey 23 years ago, it looked exactly the same as I remember. Me and a girl friend and two kiwi mates, we had adjoining rooms and could open the two together. Fantastic experience, a bottle of Thai rum and the views in the morning were incredible. It was easy to book then just turn up pay and get on. Love the video
I did this very same trip almost exactly 30 years ago when travelling around South East Asia. Loved leaving the utter chaos of Bangkok and arriving in the relative calm of Chiangmai Mai.
I took the local or rapid open-air trains along the Northern Route instead of the air-conditioned Special Express. Stopped for two nights apiece at Lop Buri, Phitsanulok, Sila At (Uttaradit), and Nakhon Lampang. Total cost 182 baht, over 750 kilometers of country covered. Great service at every stop. Awesome scenery...pictures come out so much better in an open-air carriage. Traveling in the afternoon is sweltering, but it makes for leisurely checkout and check-in times.
What do you mean open air trains ? Do you mean the 2 nd class non a/c ? I have taken such a train both ways between CM and BKK .I paid around B250 in 2019
I did something similar but headed south from Bangkok. It was nice to see less touristy areas and meant I didn't have to travel for more than a few hours at a time.
I love your videos Paul! You are right to the point, whereas some other travel bloggers focus on themselves or their spouses in the video, which makes those other channels hard to watch. I hope you never change the way you present these! Keep on the good work
My wife and I have taken the First Class sleeper in the opposite from Chiang Mai to Bangkok several times, terminating in Hua Lamphong. Very convenient and comfortable.
You can ship your luggage in the cargo section of the train. They will charge you for it but not much more than 200 baht for 2 pieces of luggage. To do this, you have to walk out the back of the terminal with the luggage, cross the street, walk over railroad tracks, and the area where they take your luggage is just to the left. It is the old Bang Sue railway station. To pick up in Chiang Mai, go out the east side train entrance, before you see the ticket counter, and look to the left. You will see a lot of boxes awaiting loading on the train.
We did this journey a few times in 1999... in second class! We also did the journey by bus, but were scared sh*tless the whole time: we got the seats at the front, above the driver. He just expected oncoming traffic to yield to him when he crossed the centre line. Loved Thailand. Oh, the food.
I did this trip a couple of weeks ago (but 2nd class). It's a great journey. The station at Bang Sue in Bangkok is not nearly as convenient as Hua Lamphong, but a better experience once you get there. I wasn't even aware that the train had a dining car, but will check it out when I take the return journey tomorrow.
I Loved the 2nd class upper berth sleeper train from BKK to CM long time ago when you could just go at the end of the car, open the door and smoke your cigarettes sitting on the stairs while riding between rice fields and jungle... and in my memory the ticket was 350THB, just over $10!!! ... usually arriving ~1h late ;-)
I was intrigued when your video came up on my you tube. Going back around 16/17 years I used to use this train journey but in reverse. Like you I used to buy the complete room but back then it was an older colonial style carriage with an outdoor step down at the front and rear. During the early part of the journey you could sit on these steps while riding through the jungle. There was always a lady present with an ice bucket full of cold drinks. There was a certain charm in travelling retro style. As nice as the Chinese sleeper train is I think I prefer my memories….
Thank you Paul. Travelled first class from the old station in 2016 having previously travelled 2nd class. Well worth the extra cost. Unfortunately almost impossible to book 1st class these days. Wish they would increase the number of carriages. Now retired and love following your adventures.
When I use night trains in Thailand I prefer second class over first class when travelling alone. It offers more privacy. And the food in the dining car is not too bad, but as I am old enough to remember the dining car in the old days when food was freshly prepared...and waves of chili came out of the kitchen making you sneeze... and eating your food by an open window... of course it is diffrent now.
Great video Paul, i recently went about half way to Chang Mai to a city called Kampaeng Phet and went and visited Khlong Lan National Park. I took a bus to Bangkok on the way back ehixh was a little unnerving as the bus rocked about like it was a boat on choppy water. The bus from Bangkok to Phuket was more modern, a complimentary snack, and with ice cold A/C blowing, so if you boarded in a T shirt & shorts, you would be grateful for the complimentary blankets they provide . There were also buses leaving to Chang Mai from Kampaeng Phet, but was told that the winding roads can also be a little unnerving on those buses.
Ja, habe ich gerne genutzt zu Radrennen. Morgens sogar geduscht aussteigen. Das Startfoto ist die Brücke hinter Lampuhn nach Goldplatz zum Aufstieg zum Kuhntan Tunnel. Bin schon LANGE nicht mehr damit gefahren oder anderweitig von Chiang Mai weg. Aber meiner Tochter will ich diese entspannte Reise (upps ohne Internet eine 14 jährige ...) nahe bringen. Das schöne an der Route ist, das die Bahnstrecke meist wirklich abseits der Autobahnen oder Haupttrassen verläuft = viel Landschaft. Es soll aber lange nicht mehr so rattern und schaukeln wie bis so 2015 ...
Nice ,clean , lovely train ; makes the journey inviting and interesting . It's looks more like a fancy airport than a railway station. Would love to have tasty meals in those pantry cars . I'd travelled more than thirty years earlier in the most basic train out of Hua Lamphong sitting on wooden benches when the vendors used to hawk their food stuff including fish ,up and down the aisles . That then was really an atmospheric trip !
I’ve been in the new Bangkok train station and I think everyone’s first comment is that it feels like an airport. I’ve heard that the food served there is pretty good. If you have excess luggage, you can “check” it in, but not the same way that you would at an airport. You can pay 150=200 baht to put 1-2 pieces of luggage in the cargo section of the train. At the Bangkok station, you need to go out the back doors, cross the street and carry luggage over 2 railroad tracks. Look to the left then and you will see an area with cargo ready to be loaded and several booths to pay and get a receipt, which you will show when you get to Chiangmai. I’m taking it in May and May use that method. But, I’ll be taking the older train, 2nd class sleeper. They have luggage racks next to the seats and I may just take my 2 pieces of luggage there and use bungee cords to secure them to the racks. I haven’t taken the overnight train in 7-8 years and am looking forward to it.
Great trip. Finally Southeast Asian Train, starting from Thailand. First thing came in my mind about Chiang Mai is Sea Games, because at 1995 it becoming First Non Capital City in ASEAN Countries to host this event. Overall great train, great cabin, and yeah the dinner may be dissapointing you, but at least the breakfast is great. And yeah the legendary mashed up of summary video at intro is back.
Great video.Brings back memories of my ride on the same route as a backpacker in feb91 but 2nd class. The trains have improved but the food looks pretty much the same. I miss Thailand.
Nicely done. I love train travel but have never taken a sleeper train, mostly because I am about 1.90 ( a bit over 6"2) and always figured the bed would be too short.
Great video, Paul. That train trip is on my list despite visiting Chiang Mai a couple of times now. I've done Surat Thani to Bangkok Hualomphong in 1st class sleeper a few years ago, and Bang Sue KTA to Nong Khai in 2nd class sleeper last month - both enjoyable experiences although in much older carriages. I hope you enjoyed Chiang Mai. Cheers from Australia - Phil.
Been on the over night sleepers a few times to Chiang Mai, Udon Thani always 2nd class aircon tho. Your right First Class books out very early and is difficult to get. 2nd class aircon is great as well :)
The ride from BKK to Chiang Mai is quite scenic, especially the hrs thru the Khun Tan mountains, worth spending the whole day. Take a day trip instead.
Ha! Where have I heard those drums before? I've always flown into Chiang Mai from either Singapore or Bangkok but will definitely consider doing this journey either to or from Chiang Mai in the future. My local rail journeys in Thailand, although always memorable, have been quite uncomfortable and hot. I hadn't realised this level of comfort was available on this long-distance route. Thanks for all the info and enjoy your stay in Chiang Mai. It is, indeed a huge contrast to Bangkok and such a great town in which to relax and chill out.
Now I know there are such nice clean trains and stations in Thailand. Thanks for sharing. I only wish India Railways sold cabins for solo occupancy. This would be the perfect sleeper train for my upcoming solo trip to India.
A solo cabin will in no way improve your journey - the crowds and cacophony will drive you crazy if the compartment itself is not disappointing to say the least .
Superb video mate! Even though I’d still probably rather fly, like everywhere, it still looked like an amazing trip & I would definitely live to try a train trip and do a trip report vlog type video about it! Cheers mate! Caleb 🇺🇸 😊
anyone else out there ( of a certain age) who misses the old rattlers from Thailand and Malaysia when travel was hard work and it is was go local or dont go at all. Nobody spoke ANY english K/San road was yet to be found, only seriously determined oddies made it to Ko Samui to sleep on the beach and we couldnt even go to Cam or V/Nam
Umm, thank you for posting this! I'm headed to SE asia in March 2025, and I'm planning to try to go to Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand by train/bus and excited for this one!
At 2:37 it looks like you saw everyone standing for the National Anthem . How many countries would you see that, where everyone would stand for the King without question?
Little bit of misuse of the term 'express' there, just like Transpennine. We looked at it last time we were there but in the end the 1 hour flight won. Fun Fact: Don Mueang is the only airport on earth with a golf course between the two runways.
Join me in playing TrainStation2 today! Click pixelfederation.onelink.me/Aaa9/qbtxk28l to download and use code LUCAS for 10 free in-game gems!
Thailand's Special Express 9 is one of Southeast Asia's most popular tourist trains, connecting the capital of Bangkok to Chiang Mai in the jungle-bound north. I took a ride on their deluxe first class sleeper car, including shower, food, and solo occupancy of the berth all the way to Chiang Mai and I really enjoyed the trip!
Follow me on Twitter: @paul_winginit ¦ twitter.com/paul_winginit
Follow me on Instagram: paul_winginit ¦ instagram.com/paul_winginit
Your videos are always happy, positive and non-toxic, yet factual. No moaning , no getting people sacked, no fighting with others. Loved them!
Thank you! I try to be as positive as I can 😃
He's the anti-Josh Cahill.
There is moaning when he is balls deep in a thai girl
Yes just like real life ! Absolutely 0 problems or conflict ever !
I did the same journey 23 years ago, it looked exactly the same as I remember. Me and a girl friend and two kiwi mates, we had adjoining rooms and could open the two together. Fantastic experience, a bottle of Thai rum and the views in the morning were incredible. It was easy to book then just turn up pay and get on. Love the video
I did this very same trip almost exactly 30 years ago when travelling around South East Asia. Loved leaving the utter chaos of Bangkok and arriving in the relative calm of Chiangmai Mai.
I took the local or rapid open-air trains along the Northern Route instead of the air-conditioned Special Express. Stopped for two nights apiece at Lop Buri, Phitsanulok, Sila At (Uttaradit), and Nakhon Lampang. Total cost 182 baht, over 750 kilometers of country covered. Great service at every stop. Awesome scenery...pictures come out so much better in an open-air carriage. Traveling in the afternoon is sweltering, but it makes for leisurely checkout and check-in times.
What a cool sounding idea. I might do that! Can you buy those tickets on day of departure? Do you know if they ever sell out?
@@erikmarcus In the weeks around New Year's Day, the trains get extremely crowded, standing room only. In March, they were half empty.
What do you mean open air trains ? Do you mean the 2 nd class non a/c ? I have taken such a train both ways between CM and BKK .I paid around B250 in 2019
I did something similar but headed south from Bangkok. It was nice to see less touristy areas and meant I didn't have to travel for more than a few hours at a time.
I love your videos Paul! You are right to the point, whereas some other travel bloggers focus on themselves or their spouses in the video, which makes those other channels hard to watch. I hope you never change the way you present these! Keep on the good work
My wife and I have taken the First Class sleeper in the opposite from Chiang Mai to Bangkok several times, terminating in Hua Lamphong. Very convenient and comfortable.
You can ship your luggage in the cargo section of the train. They will charge you for it but not much more than 200 baht for 2 pieces of luggage. To do this, you have to walk out the back of the terminal with the luggage, cross the street, walk over railroad tracks, and the area where they take your luggage is just to the left. It is the old Bang Sue railway station. To pick up in Chiang Mai, go out the east side train entrance, before you see the ticket counter, and look to the left. You will see a lot of boxes awaiting loading on the train.
Did this trip in 2nd class a number of years ago. One of those experiences that you never forget but doubt you could recreate.
Super video Paul thank you and great to hear the old drums intro again, haven’t heard that since Paul’s Trip Report Days🙂
Glad someone noticed them 🤩
@@Paul_Lucas
How many passerger per sleeper cabin?
We did this journey a few times in 1999... in second class! We also did the journey by bus, but were scared sh*tless the whole time: we got the seats at the front, above the driver. He just expected oncoming traffic to yield to him when he crossed the centre line. Loved Thailand. Oh, the food.
Sleeping in a train comes so naturally. Watching your video is great experience in itself
You brought the old intro back, YES!
I did this trip a couple of weeks ago (but 2nd class). It's a great journey. The station at Bang Sue in Bangkok is not nearly as convenient as Hua Lamphong, but a better experience once you get there.
I wasn't even aware that the train had a dining car, but will check it out when I take the return journey tomorrow.
I see at breakfast one can't escape the "Thai/Lao/Issan/local "sausage" (read bad hot dog).
I Loved the 2nd class upper berth sleeper train from BKK to CM long time ago when you could just go at the end of the car, open the door and smoke your cigarettes sitting on the stairs while riding between rice fields and jungle... and in my memory the ticket was 350THB, just over $10!!! ... usually arriving ~1h late ;-)
So much better from the train I travelled on 25 yrs ago. Thanks Paul😊
As an Indian, the idea of a relatively empty railway station is, well, bizarre. I wish you tried one of our fancy trains Paul.
Breakfast looked OK, dinner ghastly. Pretentious moaner Noel Phillips would have a seizure - no first class lounge, amenity kit or en suite shower
In fairness, Paul, I quite fancy that dinner!!!
Mind you I was at boarding school in the 70s, so I'd probably eat anything except swede.
The cafeteria coach is always my favorite spot on the train.. just the best place to chill out
Paul! Another great video, thanks again for sharing your travels and making us envious of your life! Kidding of course! 😂❤
I was intrigued when your video came up on my you tube. Going back around 16/17 years I used to use this train journey but in reverse. Like you I used to buy the complete room but back then it was an older colonial style carriage with an outdoor step down at the front and rear. During the early part of the journey you could sit on these steps while riding through the jungle. There was always a lady present with an ice bucket full of cold drinks. There was a certain charm in travelling retro style. As nice as the Chinese sleeper train is I think I prefer my memories….
Thank you Paul. Travelled first class from the old station in 2016 having previously travelled 2nd class. Well worth the extra cost. Unfortunately almost impossible to book 1st class these days. Wish they would increase the number of carriages. Now retired and love following your adventures.
Great video Paul, love the look of your 1st class compartment, and also your boarding station !
When I use night trains in Thailand I prefer second class over first class when travelling alone. It offers more privacy.
And the food in the dining car is not too bad, but as I am old enough to remember the dining car in the old days when food was freshly prepared...and waves of chili came out of the kitchen making you sneeze... and eating your food by an open window... of course it is diffrent now.
This is really a quality channel. Thanks Paul!
Wow such a great video, you are so precious and valuable and based.
Thank you Albie 😀 hahah
Really love using the old intro music ❤
Now there's a blast from the past.. The old Bongo Drums that use to be at the start of all your vids. ;D
Your train videos are so much more entertaining than the plane videos, keep new train videos coming….!
Great video Paul, i recently went about half way to Chang Mai to a city called Kampaeng Phet and went and visited Khlong Lan National Park. I took a bus to Bangkok on the way back ehixh was a little unnerving as the bus rocked about like it was a boat on choppy water. The bus from Bangkok to Phuket was more modern, a complimentary snack, and with ice cold A/C blowing, so if you boarded in a T shirt & shorts, you would be grateful for the complimentary blankets they provide . There were also buses leaving to Chang Mai from Kampaeng Phet, but was told that the winding roads can also be a little unnerving on those buses.
Fascinating video, Paul. I trust there's a video of your stay in Chiang Mai forthcoming! Cheers!
Ja, habe ich gerne genutzt zu Radrennen. Morgens sogar geduscht aussteigen.
Das Startfoto ist die Brücke hinter Lampuhn nach Goldplatz zum Aufstieg zum Kuhntan Tunnel.
Bin schon LANGE nicht mehr damit gefahren oder anderweitig von Chiang Mai weg.
Aber meiner Tochter will ich diese entspannte Reise (upps ohne Internet eine 14 jährige ...) nahe bringen.
Das schöne an der Route ist, das die Bahnstrecke meist wirklich abseits der Autobahnen oder Haupttrassen verläuft = viel Landschaft.
Es soll aber lange nicht mehr so rattern und schaukeln wie bis so 2015 ...
Nice ,clean , lovely train ; makes the journey inviting and interesting . It's looks more like a fancy airport than a railway station. Would love to have tasty meals in those pantry cars . I'd travelled more than thirty years earlier in the most basic train out of Hua Lamphong sitting on wooden benches when the vendors used to hawk their food stuff including fish ,up and down the aisles . That then was really an atmospheric trip !
So glad to see your experience on this train. This is a trip in my wish list. Great. Tks
You should definitely take it - if you can get the tickets!
I’ve been in the new Bangkok train station and I think everyone’s first comment is that it feels like an airport. I’ve heard that the food served there is pretty good. If you have excess luggage, you can “check” it in, but not the same way that you would at an airport. You can pay 150=200 baht to put 1-2 pieces of luggage in the cargo section of the train. At the Bangkok station, you need to go out the back doors, cross the street and carry luggage over 2 railroad tracks. Look to the left then and you will see an area with cargo ready to be loaded and several booths to pay and get a receipt, which you will show when you get to Chiangmai. I’m taking it in May and May use that method. But, I’ll be taking the older train, 2nd class sleeper. They have luggage racks next to the seats and I may just take my 2 pieces of luggage there and use bungee cords to secure them to the racks. I haven’t taken the overnight train in 7-8 years and am looking forward to it.
How pleasant. Thanks for bringing us along for the ride!
Ive now taken the 3rd class fan train 3 times. And its such a vibe hahaha. Seeing this fancy first class is CRAZYYY
I have watched other Thailand train videos, but this was the best of the bunch.
1:02 Wow what a station!
that station is IMMENSE!!! pretty awesome. I really want to get out to Thailand really bad someday
Great trip. Finally Southeast Asian Train, starting from Thailand. First thing came in my mind about Chiang Mai is Sea Games, because at 1995 it becoming First Non Capital City in ASEAN Countries to host this event. Overall great train, great cabin, and yeah the dinner may be dissapointing you, but at least the breakfast is great. And yeah the legendary mashed up of summary video at intro is back.
Great video.Brings back memories of my ride on the same route as a backpacker in feb91 but 2nd class. The trains have improved but the food looks pretty much the same.
I miss Thailand.
Nicely done.
I love train travel but have never taken a sleeper train, mostly because I am about 1.90 ( a bit over 6"2) and always figured the bed would be too short.
Made up for you that the channel is doing so well.
That looked like great fun, Paul - you are making me want to take a trip to Thailand now!
Great video, Paul. That train trip is on my list despite visiting Chiang Mai a couple of times now. I've done Surat Thani to Bangkok Hualomphong in 1st class sleeper a few years ago, and Bang Sue KTA to Nong Khai in 2nd class sleeper last month - both enjoyable experiences although in much older carriages.
I hope you enjoyed Chiang Mai. Cheers from Australia - Phil.
Been on the over night sleepers a few times to Chiang Mai, Udon Thani always 2nd class aircon tho. Your right First Class books out very early and is difficult to get. 2nd class aircon is great as well :)
Great video...i did this trip back in 2008 while backpacking after uni...good times
The ride from BKK to Chiang Mai is quite scenic, especially the hrs thru the Khun Tan mountains, worth spending the whole day. Take a day trip instead.
I do enjoy your videos. You were the first travel vlogger i subscribed to on here and it inspired me to follow others similar to your channel.
Thank you Paul always enjoy your videos around the world.
love the moody music in the twilight jungle..
Good to see you again. I would love to go on this train.
That could not be more shiny new. Impressive.
One of your best Paul, Thanks.
More Thailand would be great.
Ha! Where have I heard those drums before? I've always flown into Chiang Mai from either Singapore or Bangkok but will definitely consider doing this journey either to or from Chiang Mai in the future. My local rail journeys in Thailand, although always memorable, have been quite uncomfortable and hot. I hadn't realised this level of comfort was available on this long-distance route. Thanks for all the info and enjoy your stay in Chiang Mai. It is, indeed a huge contrast to Bangkok and such a great town in which to relax and chill out.
Paul's back!
This trip is so cool!! :) Thanks Paul :)
I have been many times on the Chieng Mai sleeper it’s fantastic on new train, as is the new train from Bangkok to Ubon,or Nongkhai ,
Fantastic trip report Paul!!
AHH the old intro music is it 2018 😊
It's back!!
The key is to ride the first-class cabin. Thanks for the video.
Very enjoyable to watch, many thanks for sharing :)
Now I know there are such nice clean trains and stations in Thailand. Thanks for sharing. I only wish India Railways sold cabins for solo occupancy. This would be the perfect sleeper train for my upcoming solo trip to India.
A solo cabin will in no way improve your journey - the crowds and cacophony will drive you crazy if the compartment itself is not disappointing to say the least .
You do look absolutely knackered!
Great vid though, and so cheap compared to the posh trains.
VERY different to the 1st Class Cabin I had in 2011 from Hua Lamphong to Surat Thani. The leaking toilet into our room was probably the peak....
Superb video mate! Even though I’d still probably rather fly, like everywhere, it still looked like an amazing trip & I would definitely live to try a train trip and do a trip report vlog type video about it!
Cheers mate!
Caleb 🇺🇸 😊
Great vlog as always!
Ever thought about doing the Qinghai-Tibet rail trip? I did it, and it was an adventure
Interesting review of a ftrst class over night journey. 👌💚
anyone else out there ( of a certain age) who misses the old rattlers from Thailand and Malaysia when travel was hard work and it is was go local or dont go at all. Nobody spoke ANY english K/San road was yet to be found, only seriously determined oddies made it to Ko Samui to sleep on the beach and we couldnt even go to Cam or V/Nam
I'm Thai and travel a lot by train including this one. Everything seems OK but the foods. I've to buy some stuffs to eat before I left Bangkok.
Train number 51 is better for seeing the jungle view along the way
It wasn't thet luxurious when we did it in 1997. Great vid
awesome content my dude. safe travels.
Looks like a nice trip. I envy you!
Looks very intereting night train 🍒🍒🍒
Umm, thank you for posting this! I'm headed to SE asia in March 2025, and I'm planning to try to go to Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand by train/bus and excited for this one!
how was it? i’m going next month
@@acidtrep9546 This is next March - I haven't gone yet. Tell me how yours goes!
@@anomalily oops i read the date wrong!!
Thank you Paul!
I took the overnight coach for this journey, cost about a tenner!! Would prefer this 🤣
I will try to take train to chiangmai ....look good
My school in the 8th grade we get to go on this train I think! For the trip
At 2:37 it looks like you saw everyone standing for the National Anthem . How many countries would you see that, where everyone would stand for the King without question?
not quite the national Anthem. It’s the royal family anthem - standing to it is for honoring their ruler, the king and his family.
Awesome content as always.
That's very spacious for metre gauge. It must have a generous loading gauge.
Paul great vlog !
Good video enjoyed this thank you 😊
Just what I was looking for on you tube
Another Bangkok to Chang Mai rail trip
How many of these does there need to be?
Breakfast looked appalling. But for 100 baht I guess it's acceptable.😆
Where did you purchase a ticket?
Watch the video.
If this train still started at Hualamphong, you'd arrive at Bangsue 30 minutes late already.
Little bit of misuse of the term 'express' there, just like Transpennine. We looked at it last time we were there but in the end the 1 hour flight won. Fun Fact: Don Mueang is the only airport on earth with a golf course between the two runways.
How did you book the 1st class ticket? Can't find it anywhere
Very pretty views
That is probably Thailands most popular route you may not get a ticket unless you book at least a week in advance.
Hi. It is possible to go cafe from 1st class ? Just booked my room next 2 month to Chiang Mai.
Is there a way to see the old temple that are half way to chiang rai on this train
nice one mate!
Hi Paul do you have any more train journey planned for 2024?