The fun thing about Beast Boy is the fact that, by all accounts, how they explain him is actually fully correct: he’s one of the most powerful shape-shifters around. He technically SHOULD be able to turn into humanoid beings that are of a different species, but he’s usually only restricted to “animals”. So you might not see him becoming a Kryptonian like Superman, but he COULD become a Kryptonian ANIMAL, like Krypto. Hell, Beast World literally establishes that Beast Boy could actually become swarms of animals, but it’s harder for him because he has to stretch his consciousness across multiple beings, and that has more ramifications on him than if he were to turn into a singular being. So like, he could be one bee and be fine mentally, or he could become a swarm of bees and be way more of a threat, BUT it’s harder for him to control all the bee hims in terms of like, complex maneuvers, reaction time, and if some of them die he feels that and remembers it. That being said, now I want a book or collection of books where Beast Boy trains with Martian Manhunter.
Seeing Batman and Superman being protrayed as best friends is easily one of the most wholesome moments ever I really hope that James Gunn adapts this story in his DC universe.
"What book are we discussing today?" "Sit down, we're only talking about Tim Drake and how awesome he is and how everyone forgets what he brought to Robin. The doors are locked until I'm finished."
Been going through it for so long, can I have tried but they just don't know what to do with him outside of I guess chip zadarski because you can tell he really likes the character 😭
1:05:38 Funny enough Mora actually made a post about this on IG a month or so ago about how he regrets not adding a cape. He even modified the action figure to have a red cape 😁
lol “I will not be carried”😂that reminds me of this episode of Young Justice where the sidekicks have to incapacitate The League & they take out all of them leaving only Batman & Superman against Dick Grayson Robin & Connor Kent Superboy & the kids are just getting schooled at every turn. So Robin finally calls it & says they can’t win this way so when Batman & Supes start flying down at them, Connor just grabs Robin’s arm & whips him fastball special status & he finally gets a good hit on Bruce at that speed & knocks him out. It’s just a funny move. A literal Hail Mary throw.
Absolutely love that run. One interesting thing I noticed as time went by was how the book was Waid processing 9/11. The run started beforehand, but gets darker tonally around that time, especially with the Franklin trauma and invading Latveria plotlines. Of course, I did not make that connection until years after loving it right off the shelf.
7:50 I mean, you can argue that he lost his relevance when Damien showed up to the picture and then he became red Robin and then he continue to red Robin, and then he stopped being red Robin, and then he became robin again. Then went back to going as red Robin. And then he doxed himself by calling himself, the Drake. And then went back to Robin.
11:10 Counterpoint to that Waid/cape metric... That Flash run. I always interpreted it as Wade really enjoying his superheroes being bright, happy, optimistic, and it's really hard to make Batman that way. Much easier to make Robin that way, especially Dick Grayson.
You're correct about Beast Boy, because he is pretty comparable to Animal Man in powers and has ties to The Red, which allowed Animal Man resurrect himself and have kryptonian powers.
11:06 i think Mark waids' enthusiasm for characters is really determined by their more fun pulpy roots. Superman, captain america and the FF have that "fun pulpy and cheesy scifi" core with a lot of pure hopeful optimism at their roots. But batman is a little gritier. Not to say theres no pulp or cheese there it is detective fiction after all but his stories especially in a modern context tend to be a lot grittier and darker.
@@mttylerdurden9 yknow what... I'd read it. that sounds sick. i think him writing flash gordon, the Phantom or Dan Dare would absolutely slap. honestly i'd also love Mark Waids thunderbirds or captain scarlet
I love how the conversation at the end devolves into “then they must have a power that makes it so they don’t die when they use their powers” I’ve had the exact conversation with a buddy of mine. We basically came to the consensus that you can’t just have 1 power. If you had super strength you’d probably be crushed by the weight of what you’re lifting unless you have some level of invincibility. Superspeed only works if you have some kind of power over friction.
You know growing up I had a robin toy. I always thought it was Dick Grayson, but now I realize that I had Tim Drake Robin. The comment about the black and yellow cape told me. To be fair he also rolled around in the 1960s batmobile so continuity wasn't all that important too my child brain
Early Ultimate Fantastic Four spent a little time considering how Reed's biology would work. Ethan might find it interesting if he hasn't already read it.
Great episode this week, and on one of my favorite comics. This brings a smile to my face. Also, as a huge fan of the Composite Superman, I'm always giddy when there's a reference to him, so seeing the Superman/Batman fusion made me happy. Seriously fun episode, the banter was on point. And about Beast World, I think it was decent, and I appreciated it, but I've forgotten most of it. I only remember the fun designs, which led to some great fan art, particularly from furries.
Really sad that Mark Waid is quitting, really hope he cools down and reconsiders, life is a journey filled with scary downs and astonishing ups, really hope Mark Waid doesn't lose hope
He’s a really emotional guy, I think it’s one of his assets that makes him such a good writer! I won’t lie, that was an *incredibly* difficult thing to hear from my favorite Superman writer today (amidst many other extremely difficult things to hear) but I’m confident that he’ll come around.
@@minaofmordorI don't know if he's quitting entirely, but he did say his work might decline because he can't see American's having basic goodness after Trump got elected again
This was a fun episode. I picked up this book because of Sal covering it on Off The Rack. It does sound insane when having to explain it, but it's a really fun series. I hope we get more of this series on the couch. Great Beast Boy discussion at the end 😄
I took Waid's playing with continuity as a way to please everybody, fans of all versions of characters, and didn't think much into it until the Tim Drake Erasure was brought up. you're "but GODDAMMIT" sums up the emotion well
all superpowers fall to pieces if you think about them too hard, I loved the x-men has a kid but even then the book always made me look at Cyclops who fires a physics-breaking energy beam and Beast who is essentially a fuzzy blue kinda-gorilla and think "Yep, X-Gene doin some real heavy lifting on these two."
Especially if they can find the 2017 trade of it that uses the cover for the 1989 "Unauthorized Biography of Lex Luthor", which is a pastiche of the cover of Art of the Deal.
I do want the beast boy vs. plastic man comic. It would be a really cool elseworld book that a fight between the two caused an apocalypse, and there are plastic remands that developed a will and also a beast monsters as the main enemies... maybe at the end, you realize the whole world is plastic man, and beast boy is acting like big size bacteria trying to still kill him 🤔... 😅
YES. What a honestly fantastic series that just has fun with its universe. This is going to end up being a great jumping on book for people new to DC comics or just comics in general
Your videos are getting me, and I'm sure many others, through the dark moments. Thank you for re-igniting my love of comics and for bringing smiles to your fans' faces
In fairness, I don’t think Beast Boy can ‘become a Tree’ His powers seem to be directly tied to ‘The Red’/‘Animals’, so humans could at least pass for that. Not the first time either, with how Animal Man during 52 basically dies and regenerates because he was close enough to an alien species that regenerates.
Thank you for pointing out when they steal shit from Tim, Sal….as someone whose favorite character used Tim Drake before New 52….its bums me out how they remove Tim’s stuff and give it away to everyone else. Much like how they give Barry Wally’s stuff.
@@comicpop I don't know how I forgot, but the original Earth-Two Robin, the one from Detective Comics #38, wore pants when he grew up. It's why Robin in Batman: The Brave and the Bold wears the weird costume, it is his costume from Earth-Two.
7:33 Dick Grayson designed the suit. Well depending on the version. I definitely think they should have just have given Dick his Escrima instead of a staff. Just use them sparingly. Also Nightwing Year one has an issue where Dick is Superman’s Robin for a day.
Pretty sure the scooping posture thing has to do with Batman/Robin being tactical. The way they are dangling, they could easily be prepared at a moment notice to be dropped on a roof if bad guys are seen from above. If they were dropped from a scoop position, they wouldn't land well...which is okay for Lois since he won't be dropping her into a battle.
No Sal, PLEASE defend Tim Drake. They've taken everything but the sling shot from him at this point. He's barely adapted too. He has like 1 episode where he speaks in YJ s3, awful in Titans and an even worse comic run 2 or 3 years ago. It's hard to be a Tim fan.
I think in regard to Mark Waid's preference, I think it's less that he knows/likes DC over Marvel and more of the fact that he just idolizes the ideal superhero archetype (which is DC's bread and butter i.e. Superman). Kingdom Come is a good example of this. When there's stuff like Watchmen or The Boys trying to deconstruct superheroes or show them to not be all that good, Waid wrote a story showcasing that the new violent heroes don't work and the need of the classic hero. On the Marvel side that's why all of his stories there are bit on the optimistic side (hell he even tried to make Daredevil seem happy). I think the only place it really worked was Fantastic Four, who can sometimes feel like your grandad's hero. While they're not as cheesy as Golden Age DC stuff, compared to modern Marvel's more angsty/quippy/snarky characters like Wolverine, Deadpool, or Hawkeye, they can feel a bit vanilla. Which works for Waid's writing. On the flipside this is why him trying to write X-Men doesn't work out, bc the whole mutants being oppressed and persecuted is probably just too dour for him.
Buy Batman/Superman World's Finest 1: The Devil Nezha! amzn.to/4eiBxiH
You may think you've dumped a person after a bad date, but then there's Supergirl who dumped a person so hard, he ended up in the 1800s.
Woah, harsh
tbf I would also want to go back to the 1800s if I fumbled Supergirl.
I'm surprised you aren't mentioning the DBZ parallels in this story lol
Out of everything to come out of this episode, a pitch for Beast Boy vs Plastic Man was definitely something I wasn't expecting, but now I want it!
The fun thing about Beast Boy is the fact that, by all accounts, how they explain him is actually fully correct: he’s one of the most powerful shape-shifters around. He technically SHOULD be able to turn into humanoid beings that are of a different species, but he’s usually only restricted to “animals”. So you might not see him becoming a Kryptonian like Superman, but he COULD become a Kryptonian ANIMAL, like Krypto. Hell, Beast World literally establishes that Beast Boy could actually become swarms of animals, but it’s harder for him because he has to stretch his consciousness across multiple beings, and that has more ramifications on him than if he were to turn into a singular being. So like, he could be one bee and be fine mentally, or he could become a swarm of bees and be way more of a threat, BUT it’s harder for him to control all the bee hims in terms of like, complex maneuvers, reaction time, and if some of them die he feels that and remembers it.
That being said, now I want a book or collection of books where Beast Boy trains with Martian Manhunter.
Seeing Batman and Superman being protrayed as best friends is easily one of the most wholesome moments ever I really hope that James Gunn adapts this story in his DC universe.
"What book are we discussing today?"
"Sit down, we're only talking about Tim Drake and how awesome he is and how everyone forgets what he brought to Robin.
The doors are locked until I'm finished."
Please!!
Thank you for the Tim Drake rant 😭 we fans have been starving!
Sal is Tim Drake’s strongest soldier
Been going through it for so long, can I have tried but they just don't know what to do with him outside of I guess chip zadarski because you can tell he really likes the character 😭
"Lanterns don't have capes!"
*cries in Alan Scott*
I can't tell you how much watching this had brightened my day today. Sad that Mora will be off of it soon but I love these series
He’s moving onto JLU which is kind of basically the same thing for the most part lol
The replacement artist is really good though
Gutiérrez fits the bill and did a great job with #31-32. Also, I’m beyond stoked for Waid and Mora to be doing Justice League together.
I needed this right now. I think I'm just gonna live in back issues play list for awhile.
That feels like a good idea.
Yep.
1:05:38 Funny enough Mora actually made a post about this on IG a month or so ago about how he regrets not adding a cape. He even modified the action figure to have a red cape 😁
lol “I will not be carried”😂that reminds me of this episode of Young Justice where the sidekicks have to incapacitate The League & they take out all of them leaving only Batman & Superman against Dick Grayson Robin & Connor Kent Superboy & the kids are just getting schooled at every turn. So Robin finally calls it & says they can’t win this way so when Batman & Supes start flying down at them, Connor just grabs Robin’s arm & whips him fastball special status & he finally gets a good hit on Bruce at that speed & knocks him out. It’s just a funny move. A literal Hail Mary throw.
"A kryptonian is like a seal", is my takeaway from this episode. I'm going to tell that to other folks with zero context.
Ah I see knight quest in the corner right there Sal don't tease me like this🤣🤣🤣🤣
1:16 Waid’s Fantastic Four is excellent and one of the best runs they’ve ever had.
That's Right!!!
Agreed.
Absolutely love that run.
One interesting thing I noticed as time went by was how the book was Waid processing 9/11. The run started beforehand, but gets darker tonally around that time, especially with the Franklin trauma and invading Latveria plotlines.
Of course, I did not make that connection until years after loving it right off the shelf.
Truth.
I thought his Captain America was good, but I’m not an avid Cap reader so I can’t compare it
7:50 I mean, you can argue that he lost his relevance when Damien showed up to the picture and then he became red Robin and then he continue to red Robin, and then he stopped being red Robin, and then he became robin again. Then went back to going as red Robin. And then he doxed himself by calling himself, the Drake. And then went back to Robin.
11:10 Counterpoint to that Waid/cape metric... That Flash run. I always interpreted it as Wade really enjoying his superheroes being bright, happy, optimistic, and it's really hard to make Batman that way. Much easier to make Robin that way, especially Dick Grayson.
You're correct about Beast Boy, because he is pretty comparable to Animal Man in powers and has ties to The Red, which allowed Animal Man resurrect himself and have kryptonian powers.
11:06 i think Mark waids' enthusiasm for characters is really determined by their more fun pulpy roots. Superman, captain america and the FF have that "fun pulpy and cheesy scifi" core with a lot of pure hopeful optimism at their roots. But batman is a little gritier. Not to say theres no pulp or cheese there it is detective fiction after all but his stories especially in a modern context tend to be a lot grittier and darker.
@@NovastarDoughnut so what you're saying is that Mark waid needs to write a SHADOW comic? That's where my mind went at least.
@@mttylerdurden9 yknow what... I'd read it. that sounds sick. i think him writing flash gordon, the Phantom or Dan Dare would absolutely slap. honestly i'd also love Mark Waids thunderbirds or captain scarlet
I love how the conversation at the end devolves into “then they must have a power that makes it so they don’t die when they use their powers” I’ve had the exact conversation with a buddy of mine. We basically came to the consensus that you can’t just have 1 power. If you had super strength you’d probably be crushed by the weight of what you’re lifting unless you have some level of invincibility. Superspeed only works if you have some kind of power over friction.
Sal’s scream at 44:37 😂
“To what end” is definitely on the comic pop jeopardy question of most popular sayings.
44:34 might be my favourite Back Issues moment LOL
Yet another great Comic pop equation. 1 cape + 1 Cape = No cape. 1 no mask + 1 half mask = 1 Full mask
I really needed you guys today
There's a lot of that going around.
LMAO L😂
SAME
Hey @lilbill15 just wanted you say I hope you're doing okay.
Other than comicpop, what are you watching
Also thank you, Sal for giving us a nice Worlds Finest story on a tough day. We do really need this. You're loved and appreciated
You have made my day today thanks my man and my other man and my other other man and the woman
I hope you get to more arcs from this series, its my favourite series currently being published! Great episode!
I’m onboard for the Tim defence, staff and pants for Drake only 🙌🏻😂
You know growing up I had a robin toy. I always thought it was Dick Grayson, but now I realize that I had Tim Drake Robin. The comment about the black and yellow cape told me. To be fair he also rolled around in the 1960s batmobile so continuity wasn't all that important too my child brain
Early Ultimate Fantastic Four spent a little time considering how Reed's biology would work. Ethan might find it interesting if he hasn't already read it.
Great episode this week, and on one of my favorite comics. This brings a smile to my face. Also, as a huge fan of the Composite Superman, I'm always giddy when there's a reference to him, so seeing the Superman/Batman fusion made me happy. Seriously fun episode, the banter was on point.
And about Beast World, I think it was decent, and I appreciated it, but I've forgotten most of it. I only remember the fun designs, which led to some great fan art, particularly from furries.
Got this book this morning, read it and loved it. I really enjoyed the episode and the random tangents.
Really sad that Mark Waid is quitting, really hope he cools down and reconsiders, life is a journey filled with scary downs and astonishing ups, really hope Mark Waid doesn't lose hope
He’s a really emotional guy, I think it’s one of his assets that makes him such a good writer!
I won’t lie, that was an *incredibly* difficult thing to hear from my favorite Superman writer today (amidst many other extremely difficult things to hear) but I’m confident that he’ll come around.
Quitting what? He’s still writing dc books? Did I miss something
@@minaofmordorI don't know if he's quitting entirely, but he did say his work might decline because he can't see American's having basic goodness after Trump got elected again
It’s really hard. I like to think Superman would still have hope. It’s a struggle tho.
@@carlybehrendt5096 Hold on to that hope, we'll get through this, won't be easy, but we will
Honestly, the craziest part of this story is Mark "The DC Encyclopedia" getting the bo staff for Dick Grayson Robin wrong
So far I think Dick has only used the bo staff that one time in the whole series so either Waid or Mora caught the mistake.
Come on Kara. Robin's got to be better than Comet.
Awesome a Dan Mora book! That dude is killing it on pencils. He's definitely one of the best in the business right now
This was a fun episode. I picked up this book because of Sal covering it on Off The Rack. It does sound insane when having to explain it, but it's a really fun series. I hope we get more of this series on the couch. Great Beast Boy discussion at the end 😄
"You had a real dad and he took care of you and raised you and taught you who you are"
Excellent point, mr Pennyworth, i mean, Wayne
Yes, I’ve been waiting for you guys to cover this 🤙🏾
I love the debate at the end.
I took Waid's playing with continuity as a way to please everybody, fans of all versions of characters, and didn't think much into it until the Tim Drake Erasure was brought up. you're "but GODDAMMIT" sums up the emotion well
1:16:49 This needs to be a running gag for every episode from here on
all superpowers fall to pieces if you think about them too hard, I loved the x-men has a kid but even then the book always made me look at Cyclops who fires a physics-breaking energy beam and Beast who is essentially a fuzzy blue kinda-gorilla and think "Yep, X-Gene doin some real heavy lifting on these two."
I feel like President Luthor should be your next Back Issues, considering current circumstances.
Especially if they can find the 2017 trade of it that uses the cover for the 1989 "Unauthorized Biography of Lex Luthor", which is a pastiche of the cover of Art of the Deal.
The sudden tangent to Beast Boy's powers is so ComicPop lol
So you're throwing batarangs with the strength of Superman
That sounds like a brutal way to die😮
The rants at the end of the episodes are the best, thanks for the laughs.
Not too distant past = Dick as Robin
Distant past = year one.
Too distant pass = pre Batman
Blue and Grey Batman is best! I love this run 🤘
The idea of Garf turning into a Czarnian and immediately becoming entirely unruly would be incredibly funny.
The fusion is so cool and I need more of it.
Red Tornado wasn't under Nezha's control. He just wanted to be included.
Man I love this series, the only low so far was that Metal Mej arc but even then the art on that was fantastic
Love to Hear the Tim Drake (the best robin) praise in this video
Super excited for this episode because i love this book but then i remember Waid basically said he's done with superhero comics today. Bittersweet.
The ring is a fickle bitch is the best line I’ve ever heard. Thank you, Ethan.
I'm the ultimate universe, Reed talks about how he doesn't have normal organs anymore and they're all kinda an elastic sac I think. Gross trivia lol
I mean, there's a Swamp just outside of Gotham, Slaughter Swamp where Solomon Grundy was made. Gotham's gotta be warmer just based on that
Fuck yes, please more books like these Sal, can't wait to see you do Batman and Robin Year One, Absolute Batman, Absolute Superman too
If Mark waid, Grant Morrison, and Geoff Johns competed in a competition of who has the best encyclopedic knowledge of DC, who would win?
I think Waid would probably win. Add Greg rucka and BOOM, you’ve got “52” lol
I do want the beast boy vs. plastic man comic. It would be a really cool elseworld book that a fight between the two caused an apocalypse, and there are plastic remands that developed a will and also a beast monsters as the main enemies... maybe at the end, you realize the whole world is plastic man, and beast boy is acting like big size bacteria trying to still kill him 🤔... 😅
WORLDS FINEST EPISODE LETS GOOOOOOOOO
42:26 sal's years of thambnailing prepped him up for this
11:48 A World's Finest team up fighting Poison Ivy and Metallo? I see Mark Waid has read 1996's "WF3" by Karl Kesel.
As a avid doom patrol fan, they are not really similar to the x-men really. And also that wasn't negative man, it was the spirit
YES. What a honestly fantastic series that just has fun with its universe. This is going to end up being a great jumping on book for people new to DC comics or just comics in general
If you have no idea who the Doom Patrol are, read Milk Wars. And you still won't know.
such a great series, would love to see you guys cover the stuff with lightning lad and the return to kingdom come one day
Your videos are getting me, and I'm sure many others, through the dark moments. Thank you for re-igniting my love of comics and for bringing smiles to your fans' faces
Shoutout to Sal for standing up for Tim Drake!
Thank you so much for this guys this makes this horrible day at least a little brighter
thank you, gentlemen, as always, top-tier episode !
1:04:25 Sal Todd used the Kal-El Bruce Wayne Batman figure mode for Fusion (also used for Black Lighting)
Just finish moving to New York State, can finally watch and catch up with all the episodes I missed!
Re: Beast Boy. He's connected to "The Red", which is the animal counterpart of Alan Moore's "The Green", so he can't turn into plants, only animals.
Batman/Superman World's Finest was and still is my favorite ongoing series. Glad to see y'all cover it.
Thank you for making this day better so many people. A little light goes a long way :)
In fairness, I don’t think Beast Boy can ‘become a Tree’
His powers seem to be directly tied to ‘The Red’/‘Animals’, so humans could at least pass for that. Not the first time either, with how Animal Man during 52 basically dies and regenerates because he was close enough to an alien species that regenerates.
Thank you for pointing out when they steal shit from Tim, Sal….as someone whose favorite character used Tim Drake before New 52….its bums me out how they remove Tim’s stuff and give it away to everyone else. Much like how they give Barry Wally’s stuff.
Finally, something I can actually look forward to today
Them just tearing down superhero powers and logic at the end was amazing
Dan Mora's art is fantastic
I still need you guys to do Tales From The Dark Multiverse: Infinite Crisis. Ted Kord finally gets a chance to shine.
Dude that's the Infinite Crisis one your talking about.
The Dark Multiverse COIE is wayyy more sad and depressing.
@@toxsun You're right. I corrected it.
YESSSS!!! I love this comic! It’s just so awesome!!! It feels like I’m reading a dragon ball adventure with Superman and Batman.
Ok now I gotta see you guys do “Knight Terrors” & “Beast World”
Based on the issue displayed on the right-hand side, I presume, that soon they will cover "Knightsqeust" and "Knightsend"...
Dick Grayson wore green pants in the New 52 timeline. Aside from looking dope, I think Mora and Waid are mixing timelines.
So after Tim Drake.
@@comicpop I don't know how I forgot, but the original Earth-Two Robin, the one from Detective Comics #38, wore pants when he grew up. It's why Robin in Batman: The Brave and the Bold wears the weird costume, it is his costume from Earth-Two.
Batman, Superman, and their son, Robin
Yay. World's Finest!!! Hell yeah!!
That might be the best ending discussion to a back issues episode I have seen. Maybe the funniest too
7:33 Dick Grayson designed the suit. Well depending on the version. I definitely think they should have just have given Dick his Escrima instead of a staff. Just use them sparingly. Also Nightwing Year one has an issue where Dick is Superman’s Robin for a day.
Really needed this ngl. Never stop being you guys.
Pretty sure the scooping posture thing has to do with Batman/Robin being tactical. The way they are dangling, they could easily be prepared at a moment notice to be dropped on a roof if bad guys are seen from above. If they were dropped from a scoop position, they wouldn't land well...which is okay for Lois since he won't be dropping her into a battle.
I never would have thought Batman & Superman would end up fighting an evil Nezha.
Love this series! The first volume especially is such a great treat for lore heads
No Sal, PLEASE defend Tim Drake. They've taken everything but the sling shot from him at this point. He's barely adapted too. He has like 1 episode where he speaks in YJ s3, awful in Titans and an even worse comic run 2 or 3 years ago. It's hard to be a Tim fan.
Tim fans are starving. But at least Titans didn't call him an idiot who doesn't read like they did Jason. I know your pain
I would love it if Ethan wrote a full pitch for this Plastic Man/Beast Boy/Flash story that he talks about at the end. It sounds fantastic!
Could Beast Boy become Krypto the Super dog with all his powers?
I think in regard to Mark Waid's preference, I think it's less that he knows/likes DC over Marvel and more of the fact that he just idolizes the ideal superhero archetype (which is DC's bread and butter i.e. Superman). Kingdom Come is a good example of this. When there's stuff like Watchmen or The Boys trying to deconstruct superheroes or show them to not be all that good, Waid wrote a story showcasing that the new violent heroes don't work and the need of the classic hero. On the Marvel side that's why all of his stories there are bit on the optimistic side (hell he even tried to make Daredevil seem happy). I think the only place it really worked was Fantastic Four, who can sometimes feel like your grandad's hero. While they're not as cheesy as Golden Age DC stuff, compared to modern Marvel's more angsty/quippy/snarky characters like Wolverine, Deadpool, or Hawkeye, they can feel a bit vanilla. Which works for Waid's writing. On the flipside this is why him trying to write X-Men doesn't work out, bc the whole mutants being oppressed and persecuted is probably just too dour for him.
You guys have to bring back Tangents