Like everything, it depends on the need and experience of the user. Need something you can plug headphones into so you don't annoy your family and/or neighbors while you practice a song 50 times in a row? Probably worth it.
I recently went through the process to upgrade my Yamaha P-125. My budget was $3000, and tried the main brands (Yamaha, Kawai, Roland and even a few Casio). I came to realize that this is a pretty competitive market, and you basically get what you pay for, in the sense that you get more for every extra $1000 (albeit with diminishing return). I went for a CA59 (which was above my budget, but worth it IMO), but also had the opportunity to try a Kawai CA99, NV5s and Yamaha NUX1 (among others). I thought that a soundboard (which the CA59 does not have) was a real plus because of the fuller sound and vibration. The NUX1 and NV5s had better keyboards. I thought these 2 pianos especially came very close to the real deal, with the advantage of a tight and relatively light package. If I can afford one at the time, my next piano will be one of these upscale hybrids, with a soundboard and a hammer action.
I played a CA901 and the NV10S the other week and both were cool instruments, but I wasn’t blown away. The actions were good, but as a novice, they didn’t feel remarkably better than the PHA-4 on my FP60x. The sound was good but not spectacular as I would expect. I am now running my FP60x along with other instruments through four Yamaha HS8 studio monitors and a KRK S10.4 subwoofer, and my makeshift sound system hits you in the face in a manner that the premium console digital pianos that I have played just don’t. That said, I did feel the soundboards on both instruments and felt that was a nice touch. I have also played all of the Clavinovas, which I prefer over the Kawai, but still would prefer a high end portable slab hooked in to a great sound system. Plus, my system can also be fed other instruments. I have my quad cortex guitar amp/fx modeler and an electronic drum set all running through the monitors and it sounds incredible. Studio monitors can be found secondhand all over the place too. I have about 6k into my setup including the Yamaha drums, quad cortex, FP60x, digital mixer, monitors, and subwoofer. Expensive, yes, but I can jam with a full band in my house at any volume. If you just want the piano and extra speakers, about $2k will get you a very premium sound.
I used to have one of the Suzuki Micro Grands…. It wasnt too bad. Loved the looked but the whole instrument wobbled when played. The keyboard action was ok. But felt very weak. I bought a Kawai CA49 on its clearance price and Im so glad I did. Its frigging awesome. The action and the tone generation is absolutely amazing!
And for what its worth I dont want all those automatic chord rhythm arranger stuff. To me it just takes up more space on the sound card that could be used for the piano sample. I just want to turn the thing on, have a great realistic experience in touch and tone. If I want other sounds Ill connect to an app like Garage Band and mess around. I do like it has bluetooth midi. Every new instrument built from now forward should have it.
Thank you guys for your discussions. They have a ring of unbias as they talk honestly about features at price points, not just selling instruments. For several reasons, I have waited for the past 6 years when I again took up piano, mostly jazz and popular standards, though classically trained, progressing on a Yamaha P-45. I paid $200 for it off of CL. Sound is pretty good through the headphones, very weak speakers and amplifiers, not as much fun playing "en plaine aire." Harmonies are there, articulations possible, but open sound is not rich, somewhat tinkly and thin above the bass, especially very high treble. Studying my decision, delaying purchase for 6 years has added some new great features. I think I'm down to the Yamaha CLP 785, recently dropped contention of CA 901 after talking to my digital repair guy, in business for 40 years. Toured as repair guy with some big acts. Can we order a piano online and have it delivered? You somewhere mention that your contracts with the manu's preclude that with Kawai. Do you deal in Yamaha also? I would drive to pick up at store if reasonable. Not going to drive from the Oregon Coast to SA for pick-up, though I have lived in Texas and SA back in the day. Maybe the nicest city in Tx. At any rate, your talks have been helpful for me and I'm sure for others. Right instrument at right price point is critical and very much context dependent.
Roland and Kawai used to build premium arranger digital pianos until a few years ago. I have played some of them. Yamaha makes 3 Clavinova series: CLP, CSP, CVP. The CVP800 series has been replaced by the CVP900 series, so the CVP809 mentioned in the video is not the latest release. I have played the CVP809: a lot of fun if you know how to use the built-in arranger, plus the speaker system is very powerful. It's a premium instrument. Kawai had until not too long ago the Concert Performer series, with the CP1 being a digital baby grand piano with 9 speakers and a built-in arranger. The shape of the piano helps to create a sound field similar to a baby grand. Yamaha had the CGP-1000 back in 2008, also a digital baby grand with a soundboard + transducers + speakers + arranger + digital piano with wooden keys. No one has done a digital baby grand with a soundboard, except Yamaha (2008), but they discontinued that piano. I have seen people buy an acoustic grand piano and a Clavinova CVP. The new CVP909GP has over 1,600 sounds + 657 auto-accompaniment styles + premium speakers, and looks like a baby grand. Likely to be found in hotels, cruise ships, among other commercial venues. Everything has a purpose and a buyer.
@Instrumental Covers this is unrelated, but have you noticed 1 of the meny things said why digital pianos are beter than acoustic pianos is because you can plugin headphones so that no1 can hear you practis? As you know this argument nowadays is a bit dated because of silent pianos🎹🎶
Thank for the video. The chat is interesting, but it gets hard to follow as models names are mentioned once, and then there is it, it, it. There is no summary, no diagram. I'm so glad that the issue of "toys" was raised. All pianos are real pianos, unless they are only virtual instruments or toys. I hate hearing elitists talk about acoustic pianos as the "real pianos". So, congratulations for not slipping into that habit. Should manufacturers be so keen to model digital pianos on acoustic pianos? Evidentally, it's very tempting, particularly in the home piano market. Home pianos are practice instruments. Many home pianists aspire to performing in places where grand pianos are still King. But when digital pianos are used on a big stage, it's mainly because they are required to perform in a way that's impossible for a grand piano. It makes sense therefore, that stage (digital) pianos should plot their own course, with minimal reference to acoustic pianos. The wild card is the portable digital piano. It gets used for everything from home practice to mini-arranger to smaller gigs to school concerts, and pucker (modern) stage gigs at a push. It does all of these things only moderately well. It's always obvious, which portable models most lean towards which of these functions/activities. Sorry if I digress from the point of the video which is about the sense in investing large sums in high end DPs and digital hybrids. It's probably worth it if an acoustic piano costing the same price won't perform the same set of tasks as well, and those tasks may include being transported frequently. But the acoustic piano will probably hold it's value better. When you're talking many thousands of dollars, the tuning costs become less relevant and the final resale price is very relevant. People don't really buy RVs to save money on hotels - they want the freedom to plot their own course. High end DPs and hybrids give us (costly) special advantages which go beyond what the acoustic piano was designed for.
i rhink anyone who spends a lot of money on a piano ,either already plays at some serious level or have ambitions to do that.THat already leaves i think many people out of the equation.The reason such a person would buy a digital over an acoustic is mainly i think because they may have problems with the sound level.The only problem i see with premium digitals is you actually not only pay for the action but you also pay a lotof money for the amp and speakers that you may not use.I think they could have cut costs and make home pianos with premium actions and sounds and cheap amp system.But as it is they usually go together in quality.
Like everything, it depends on the need and experience of the user. Need something you can plug headphones into so you don't annoy your family and/or neighbors while you practice a song 50 times in a row? Probably worth it.
By round 30, I am annoying myself. I could only imagine what everyone else would say.
There are hybrid acoustic pianos with silent systems that lowers a mute bar between the hammers and strings so you can play with headphones🎹🎶
I recently went through the process to upgrade my Yamaha P-125. My budget was $3000, and tried the main brands (Yamaha, Kawai, Roland and even a few Casio). I came to realize that this is a pretty competitive market, and you basically get what you pay for, in the sense that you get more for every extra $1000 (albeit with diminishing return). I went for a CA59 (which was above my budget, but worth it IMO), but also had the opportunity to try a Kawai CA99, NV5s and Yamaha NUX1 (among others). I thought that a soundboard (which the CA59 does not have) was a real plus because of the fuller sound and vibration. The NUX1 and NV5s had better keyboards. I thought these 2 pianos especially came very close to the real deal, with the advantage of a tight and relatively light package. If I can afford one at the time, my next piano will be one of these upscale hybrids, with a soundboard and a hammer action.
I played a CA901 and the NV10S the other week and both were cool instruments, but I wasn’t blown away. The actions were good, but as a novice, they didn’t feel remarkably better than the PHA-4 on my FP60x. The sound was good but not spectacular as I would expect. I am now running my FP60x along with other instruments through four Yamaha HS8 studio monitors and a KRK S10.4 subwoofer, and my makeshift sound system hits you in the face in a manner that the premium console digital pianos that I have played just don’t. That said, I did feel the soundboards on both instruments and felt that was a nice touch. I have also played all of the Clavinovas, which I prefer over the Kawai, but still would prefer a high end portable slab hooked in to a great sound system. Plus, my system can also be fed other instruments. I have my quad cortex guitar amp/fx modeler and an electronic drum set all running through the monitors and it sounds incredible. Studio monitors can be found secondhand all over the place too. I have about 6k into my setup including the Yamaha drums, quad cortex, FP60x, digital mixer, monitors, and subwoofer. Expensive, yes, but I can jam with a full band in my house at any volume. If you just want the piano and extra speakers, about $2k will get you a very premium sound.
I used to have one of the Suzuki Micro Grands…. It wasnt too bad. Loved the looked but the whole instrument wobbled when played. The keyboard action was ok. But felt very weak.
I bought a Kawai CA49 on its clearance price and Im so glad I did. Its frigging awesome. The action and the tone generation is absolutely amazing!
And for what its worth I dont want all those automatic chord rhythm arranger stuff. To me it just takes up more space on the sound card that could be used for the piano sample. I just want to turn the thing on, have a great realistic experience in touch and tone. If I want other sounds Ill connect to an app like Garage Band and mess around. I do like it has bluetooth midi. Every new instrument built from now forward should have it.
Thank you guys for your discussions. They have a ring of unbias as they talk honestly about features at price points, not just selling instruments. For several reasons, I have waited for the past 6 years when I again took up piano, mostly jazz and popular standards, though classically trained, progressing on a Yamaha P-45. I paid $200 for it off of CL. Sound is pretty good through the headphones, very weak speakers and amplifiers, not as much fun playing "en plaine aire." Harmonies are there, articulations possible, but open sound is not rich, somewhat tinkly and thin above the bass, especially very high treble. Studying my decision, delaying purchase for 6 years has added some new great features. I think I'm down to the Yamaha CLP 785, recently dropped contention of CA 901 after talking to my digital repair guy, in business for 40 years. Toured as repair guy with some big acts.
Can we order a piano online and have it delivered? You somewhere mention that your contracts with the manu's preclude that with Kawai. Do you deal in Yamaha also? I would drive to pick up at store if reasonable. Not going to drive from the Oregon Coast to SA for pick-up, though I have lived in Texas and SA back in the day. Maybe the nicest city in Tx.
At any rate, your talks have been helpful for me and I'm sure for others. Right instrument at right price point is critical and very much context dependent.
Roland and Kawai used to build premium arranger digital pianos until a few years ago. I have played some of them. Yamaha makes 3 Clavinova series: CLP, CSP, CVP. The CVP800 series has been replaced by the CVP900 series, so the CVP809 mentioned in the video is not the latest release. I have played the CVP809: a lot of fun if you know how to use the built-in arranger, plus the speaker system is very powerful. It's a premium instrument. Kawai had until not too long ago the Concert Performer series, with the CP1 being a digital baby grand piano with 9 speakers and a built-in arranger. The shape of the piano helps to create a sound field similar to a baby grand. Yamaha had the CGP-1000 back in 2008, also a digital baby grand with a soundboard + transducers + speakers + arranger + digital piano with wooden keys. No one has done a digital baby grand with a soundboard, except Yamaha (2008), but they discontinued that piano. I have seen people buy an acoustic grand piano and a Clavinova CVP. The new CVP909GP has over 1,600 sounds + 657 auto-accompaniment styles + premium speakers, and looks like a baby grand. Likely to be found in hotels, cruise ships, among other commercial venues. Everything has a purpose and a buyer.
@Instrumental Covers this is unrelated, but have you noticed 1 of the meny things said why digital pianos are beter than acoustic pianos is because you can plugin headphones so that no1 can hear you practis? As you know this argument nowadays is a bit dated because of silent pianos🎹🎶
@@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12 Hi, yes. That's the best of both worlds: real piano when needed + headphones for silent practice. 🎵🎵
@@Instrumental-Covers exactlly🎹🎶
Thank for the video.
The chat is interesting, but it gets hard to follow as models names are mentioned once, and then there is it, it, it. There is no summary, no diagram.
I'm so glad that the issue of "toys" was raised. All pianos are real pianos, unless they are only virtual instruments or toys. I hate hearing elitists talk about acoustic pianos as the "real pianos". So, congratulations for not slipping into that habit.
Should manufacturers be so keen to model digital pianos on acoustic pianos? Evidentally, it's very tempting, particularly in the home piano market. Home pianos are practice instruments. Many home pianists aspire to performing in places where grand pianos are still King.
But when digital pianos are used on a big stage, it's mainly because they are required to perform in a way that's impossible for a grand piano. It makes sense therefore, that stage (digital) pianos should plot their own course, with minimal reference to acoustic pianos.
The wild card is the portable digital piano. It gets used for everything from home practice to mini-arranger to smaller gigs to school concerts, and pucker (modern) stage gigs at a push. It does all of these things only moderately well. It's always obvious, which portable models most lean towards which of these functions/activities.
Sorry if I digress from the point of the video which is about the sense in investing large sums in high end DPs and digital hybrids. It's probably worth it if an acoustic piano costing the same price won't perform the same set of tasks as well, and those tasks may include being transported frequently.
But the acoustic piano will probably hold it's value better. When you're talking many thousands of dollars, the tuning costs become less relevant and the final resale price is very relevant. People don't really buy RVs to save money on hotels - they want the freedom to plot their own course. High end DPs and hybrids give us (costly) special advantages which go beyond what the acoustic piano was designed for.
i rhink anyone who spends a lot of money on a piano ,either already plays at some serious level or have ambitions to do that.THat already leaves i think many people out of the equation.The reason such a person would buy a digital over an acoustic is mainly i think because they may have problems with the sound level.The only problem i see with premium digitals is you actually not only pay for the action but you also pay a lotof money for the amp and speakers that you may not use.I think they could have cut costs and make home pianos with premium actions and sounds and cheap amp system.But as it is they usually go together in quality.
Maybe you guys would be happiest with a VPC1 and an iPad full of samples. Dexibel at the premium end is another boutique option.
ya, im thinking of throwing a vpc1 into my 1917 heintzman upright. having 4 pianos is just too much money for maintenance all the time
The Casio CDP 350 is worth it. Although full 88 length, the chassis is slim slim. It's almost just keys.
Is there so much difference of the feel between a hybrid and for example the kawai mp11se?
No. They are not