Under the Control of Charles Manson? | Leslie Van Houten Case Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2022
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Leslie Van Houten?
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Here’s the forgotten victim of the Manson Family. Gary Hinman, a music teacher who befriended the Manson gang. He got weirded out by them after a time and cut ties. The Manson gang thought Gary was well to do, and asked, uh, demanded money from him. They killed him for not having the money they demanded. And Manson was one of the perps.
Dennis Wilson felt overwhelming misery and guilt from having even been associated with them. He was never able to shake it from his life and I’m sure it factored into his depression and substance abuse.
There was also a city worker that the police think was murdered by Manson. They never found his body though.
@@VetteMAE2 people who knew dennis said he was haunted by the murders for the rest of his life and regretted bringing manson into his world.
Niggas die every day B
They also tortured him. For this horrid murder alone they should have placed Tex and Manson on death row.
Frankly, I don't think simply saying "she's not a danger to society" is sufficient reason to parole Leslie.... she took someone's life in a heinous way, and a jury of her peers decided the appropriate punishment was to forfeit her own. Allowing her to leave jail simply because she's had the good fortune to live long enough to apply for parole seems to fly in the face of what that jury intended. She's already had more time out of jail than she deserved, and she chose to throw that opportunity in the faces of her victim's family & the American public by attending the Oscars. If she wants to contribute to society she can do that from behind bars.
Sorry to disagree but here's my opinion: After living a comfortable, middle class childhood, Van Houten went off the rails against the wishes of her family and walked blindly into a disastrous situation without any misgivings. This resulted in drug use, abusive sex, theft and, eventually, murder. Since her incarceration, she has been nothing other than a "model prisoner". Considering her accomplishments, as a whole, the "model prisoner" part is about the only positive thing she has been able to achieve. She's on a streak. Why ruin it now? I say let her continue to do what she obviously does best: model prisoner.
yep. Hell I don't even want to give the majority of those with Brutal upbringing a get out of jail free card because of their past. My youth sucked :) I never did Any violent crime...never thought of it. I just screwed up myself, at least that's my business :)...years later I got things on track....I hated the world but no individual...I attempted suicide and failed for which i am glad...that was wrong but she killed SOMEONE ELSE in a really really bad way.
sorry girl goodbye
It's hard to believe she's been officially released today (Tuesday, 7/11/23). The people brutally murdered were just minding their own business in their own homes. I can't imagine the nightmare their last moments were.
and she is enjoying her first Friday night of freedom
"Eat the rich", as they say... Manson said it was about starting a race war, but I think they all really hated people that represented wealth. Especially with the whole country basically at war with one another, Vietnam had bred the "hippy generation", the war on drugs started, minotities were fighting hard for equal rights, but the rich got to be excluded from all that. While being to blame for parts of it... the only people back then that had h privilege to mind their own business were rich. Obviously that doesn't excuse murder. But I really believe that L.V had been mentally ill already, from all the abuse, and had been almost brainwashed. Look what people did at the capital, almost killing police in the process. Brutalized them. They were brainwashed... it's a powerful thing. I always thought she was the only one that shouldn't have been given life.
She is living near one of the Slave Handlers of the Rainbow Family right now. They use her as a Viewing Screen. Pretty sick Cult.
HER LAST DAYS ON EARTH PROLLY WONT BE GREAT. SHE IS IN HALFWAY HOUSE, SHE IS ON PAROLE 3 YEARS. SHE DOESNT KNOW THE WAYS OF SURVIVAL OUT IN THE REAL WORLD. SOCIETY WILL PROLLY SHUN HER. SHE IS OLD. IF SHE CAN GET HER HANDS ON THE 25 MILLION DOLLASRS SHE IS ALLEGEDLY WORTH, SHE MIGHT HAVE EASIER TRANSITION INTO THE REAL WORLD.
Shouldnt be happening. Should be Life without exceptions for murder
none of them should get parole...we need to be very severe with murderers
they also injected terror into the minds & hearts of many.
Especially murderers committing crimes so horrendous they stagger the imagination.
Manson tried to recruit my mother in law in the late 1960’s, they frequently ran into each other at mutual friends/famous musician’s parties…thankfully she thought he was a creep and wanted no part of it. I’ll respectfully disagree with Dr. Grande here, I don’t think any of the surviving family members should ever be released.
So disgusting
you're mother in law dodged a major bullet!😮😮
@@lisabradford8180 That’s for sure!
Riiiiight.
@@lisabradford8180. You bought this crap? Everybody wants their “Manson connection.” Funny how there are millions of them.
I lived in San Diego when the murders occured. I was 20 years old. It was shocking to us... I could not understand how young women could be so cruel and violent.
Yes, me also. The contradictory thing is how easily manipulated the murderers were and agreeable, compliant toward Manson and yet the brutal agressive, vigorous attacks they perpetrated. To me that was an anomaly.
I would do anything for love (but i won't do that)
Also he probably got them addicted to pills or something. It is very easy to manipulate an addict?
@@claudinejames7731 Manson didn't make them do anything. They went to both homes with Tex Watson to steal drugs a nd money. They were following Watson, not Manson.
@Claudine James Their resistance to Society's norms and standards, moral values, and familial ties were broken down and erased over time through self imposed isolation, manipulation, mind control, and continual and excessive drug use. I don't think this was accomplished easily as it didn't happen overnight but over months and even years for some of them.
The female of the species is often the most dangerous.
She was the girlfriend of Bobby Beausoleil. She'd already done crimes with him (she just hadn't been caught). Original sentence was death. It's only fair she pay a life sentence in prison.
They already released Squeaky years ago, even though she tried to assassinate Gerald Ford after the others were already in prison. I really would have a hard time trusting any of them.
Yeah and she was still a whackjob and dangerous.
Keyword - tried.
She was unsuccessful. Imagine if she succeeded.
@@ArizonaRed - she didn’t fire the gun. She hadn’t even chambered a round so it’s hard to say what her real plan was.
I think I remember reading that Squeaky would have shot Gerald Ford but she forgot to put bullets in the gun - or something weird like that. To me, it is one more example of the weird distracted and disjointed thinking that the followers of that “family” exhibit.
A friend of mine is related to Leno LaBianca. Under no circumstances does he want to see her released. Personally I do think she is no longer a danger but...you can't convince everyone. Once you've done something like what she and the others did, you trade in your humanity card.
Very well said @BlueEyed Wolf
It's not up to him. It's up to the parole board.
@@Nikes62 and the governor
who most likely heard from him so perhaps it has been up to him
I wouldn't bother to keep her locked up just to assuage some special interest unless he's paying the whole bill. and 'humanity cards' aren't taken away until you pass away into the beyond!
She committed a horrific crime that gave a life sentence to her victims families . She held down a woman who screamed in terror while she heard her husband being murdered in the next room. Danger or not she deserves to die in prison . Show the save amount of mercy abs compassion she showed the Labianca s
I don’t really care that Leslie “has changed” or that she has been “a model prisoner”. The people she murdered are still dead. She has forfeited her right to be free.
What about all the other murderers that Governors Brown, and Newsom have paroled. The ones that haven't even tried to change. It's all political bs, guy, that's why she's not paroled.
I agree 100%. What she did was just despicable and senseless.
The only difference is Charles Manson performs a show to the media and until his death, never took responsibility (even though Manson didn't actually murder those victims).
That’s not what the law says.
So all murderers should serve life without parole? You see no reason to allow for extenuating circumstances? Ever?
It would be nice if our criminal justice system could figure out what it's goals are. That said, I'm 100% ok if she never got to see the sun again.
How on earth do we live in a world where Leslie was allowed to attend the Oscars? My goodness the world is sick. And I haven't even addressed the killings!!! I'm just talking about the Oscars! Ugh. Thanks, doc, as always for your analyses.
They do these sort of things to rile the masses. The powers that be seem to get off on not just letting people be happy and live their lives. They have to keep doing things to wind people up. Look at council culture and what's it's doing.
I was thinking that too. Messed up for sure.
Well they not only let Roman Polanski attend the Oscars they gave him one and he received a standing ovation! He should have been taken into custody at the door. I don't care how talented he is he's a rapist, a paedophile, (spelling?), AND a child molester. He's the one who should be locked up forever not Leslie but no he's living the high life abroad. I didn't know he was even allowed back in the states. Statute of limitations must have run out. He and Mr. Nicholson are both evil human beings who walked away from their punishment because they're rich and part of the A list. If that happened now with the Me Too atmosphere in Hollywood I believe they would be in prison right where they deserve to be.
hollywood has shown itself to be perverted, degenerate and amoral time and time again. i haven't been to a theater in over 2 decades.
She hadn't been convicted yet. And, she was free, out on bail until her trial in the latter part of 1978.
"you had to slap yourself, there was no actor that would come up and do it for you" lol 😆
😂 Dr Grande has jokes!
What about Will Smith?
@@brendafrausto4345 you
Don’t talk about the joke
😂😂😂
I'm so disgusted about her release...
Any person stabbing another human 16 times, should Never be released from prison! I'm forever disappointed in what our distorted society has become...
Almost like you can commit the most atrocious crime, but you can get out eventually! Wow ☠️🤯
The insanity that was the Manson family is horrifying. Leslie should NEVER see the light of day.
SHE IS FREE NOW.
I agree!
I'd like to know how someone who was originally sentenced to death is now free person?
The LaBianca's aren't free.
Both of them were brutally murdered in the privacy of their own home, not bothering anyone, and their convicted murderer is free?
Makes no sense.
Where's the justice?
Yup, there isn't any.
Too bad nobody is listening to you! 😆
@@myotheraccountissuspended921
Too bad you don't have any empathy for those whose bodies are in coffins thanks to that pathetic pile of dung.
I hope she visits you with her "family"...
I am thinking of the victims and what they went through when they were brutally and viscously murdered just for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I am also thinking of their families and how they were expected to move on in life, leaving their murdered family behind. I am on the victims’ side on this one.
How can you be in " the wrong place at the wrong time" when you are sleeping in your own home?
I was 15 when this happened. and like many people, I paid attention. If one reads in detail what they did to those people, one comes to the conclusion that a "life sentence" should mean exactly that. Charlie did life, just as they all should.
they were given death sentences.California overturned their sentences when they abolished the death penalty.They should not even be eligible for parole.
I was 15 too and remember it like it was yesterday. I agree that they all deserved life in prison!
@@dixiebrantnerdereus3416 You bet, everyone had some sort of reaction. Living as I was, in the hippie capitol of the pacific north west (Eugene Or.) Not everyone saw it the same way, but mostly everyone was just freaked out.
My mom went to High school with her.
@@spiderlily4386 They first made a deal with Susan Atkin. Her own laywers fed her the "Charlie controlled them all" story. A book was even written before the trial even happened called "The Killing of Sharon Tate". It was based on the story told by Atkins. Then Bugliosi decided (or was told to) kill the deal with Atkins and give it to Linda Kasabian instead because she looked more wholesome and innocent than Atkins. Kasabian was Tex Watsons girlfriend and Charlie barely knew her. It was Kasabian and Watson who were the prime instigators of both sets of murders. Look up NIKOLAS SCHRECK to learn what really happened.
I met Tex Watson as a kid- he was in prison with my dad and during a family visit, I ended up playing with his son in the activity area of the facility. Tex came over and read us the story of the 3 little pigs- out of nowhere, my dad and mom run over and I heard my father cuss for the first and last time of my life- he was not happy about this guy talking to his kids- I had no idea until many years later what had happened that day but I will always remember that mans ice blue eyes- even at age 8, I could see there was something very off about that man.
I don't understand why Tex wasn't sent to one of those notoriously tough Federal prisons. Why did this fiend get sent to a soft, easy prison?
It was a max security prison- just located in a really nice coastal town in CA. It still really sucked. @@micheleemcdaniel389
I think Watson may have been the REAL culprit, not Manson, and so at the behest of Roman Polanski. Just what I think.
@@micheleemcdaniel389 He was at CMC in San Luis Obisbo in the early-mid 80's when my dad was there- it was a max security prison but yes, it is/was the nicest one in the state in my opinion
A little known bizarre fact is that Van Houten was actually briefly released at one point for several months or so, and in that time appeared on the Phil Donahue show, which was quite bizarre. She was treated very sympathetically by the audience and host, and most of the discussion was about her interest in feminist politics, which drew several rounds of enthusiastic applause from Donahue's audience.
You might have thought she was on the show because she was a representative of the National Organization for Women or some such rather than because she helped hack several people to death.
Hollywood celebrities had this woman at the Oscar's even though she was involved in the murder of one of their friends. Wow......
Hollywood is evil so I'm not surprised with the elites welcome her there
Imagine that! Good point.
I know! Unbelievable
Really?!🤷♂️
🤯
Hollywood is more shallow than mud flats at low tide and more hollow than an old dead tree.
Respectfully disagree that Leslie should ever be released and I'm glad to see most of the people in the comments agree.
Leno never got to see his son grow up to be a man or ever got to meet his grandchildren. What she and her "family" did was horrific and will reverberate through history. She needs to serve the rest of her sentence- life in prison without parole.
If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
agree.
That’s not a good argument how does she pose a threat
Disagree on the reason. Your response is to punish not to correct.
@@sigmundsigma6888 Killers should not be set free. Their victims will never see life again.
The acquaintance was John Waters. He lost me when he did that. He was such a shock jock. Horrible for the victims and their families for him to parade her that way. He’s awful.
Yes, and I wish Dr. Grande emphasized that. He disingenuously gave the impression that "Hollywood" in general invited and celebrated Van Houten. They didn't - it was just Waters, with no evidence anyone else welcomed her to the Oscars.
Waters is such an ick, him and his movies. I never understood the appeal. Gutfeld had him on his show promoting his book. Icky, icky man.
@@AngelinaX23 Waters was all about shock value. I made the mistake of watching the so-called movie Pink Flamingos long ago. I have a strong stomach but felt like throwing up a few times when watching it. In one scene they crushes a live chicken in a rape scene. In another, the drag queen star of the film literally eats dog shit.
No it wasn’t. They didn’t meet until 1985.
@@chad3232132. It wasn’t Waters. They didn’t meet until 1985.
I have been waiting for this analysis since I started following Dr. Grande. I believe Van Houten is remorseful, fifty years in prison will do that for some folks. However, the heinous nature of these connected crimes is too terrible to ignore. I agree with Dr. Grande's assessment of Van Houten's change in beliefs, intellectually. Emotionally, I cannot get past how terrifying the murders of the LaBianca's were. I just can't. It may seem unjust, but I still believe prison is where Van Houten should remain for the rest of her life.
I think she's only "remorseful" cuz she wants out of prison.😬🤷🏻♀️
@@Autistic_Pelican_Fucker420
And how would you know that?
Yeah she took a life she will suffer the consequences, she doesn't deserve freedom after that.
@@judyives1832 geez, read the comment. Danko said “I think…” not “I know”. And how do you “know” she is truly remorseful? See how that works? Remember Charlie said “women should not talk but do what they are told”
So shush.
Did you actually listen and understand what the Doc said? From your comments, it appears not.
After given the death sentence it was commuted to life when California repealed the death sentence for a short 9 months. She was given "parole" when her sentenced was commuted to life.
Doris Tate once asked at a parole hearing "are these seven victims, and possibly more, going to walk out of their graves when you get parole?"
My sentiments for sentencing murderers has always been, "when you can bring back the people you killed, You're free to go".
That sounds so chilling and so sad. I cannot even imagine the constant fear and terror and grief the families felt and will probably feel the rest of their lives - people are still very much haunted by these deaths (and the other, lesser discussed murders adjacent to this horrific reign of terror).
@sheila lopez - £#%€ Yeah, nailed it. Perfectly said.
there's plenty of murderers that get parole, but they don't have the name Manson tied to them. Its only political bs that keeps her in prison.
@@rullmourn1142 if that's what keeps her there, and i don't disagree, so be it. no sympathy here for her and the rest of them. let them die behind bars as manson and atkins did.
Honestly, I am ok with all the "family" staying in prison till death.
The Family actually goes on Tour and Camps and holds music festivals peacefully. Everything else was an SRA Satanic ritual abuse cult for HUSH HUSH magazine.
yea of cours eyou are.
When I was younger than these women they seemed so much older and seasoned than me. Now that I'm much older than they were at the time of their crimes, I can see how young and stupid these people were
Having been somewhat (not entirely) under the sway of a narcissist, I can see how it happened. Plus they were heavily under the influence of drugs at the time. Unfortunately for them they crossed paths with Charles Manson and latched on to him. I am very confident they will never be forgiven; which is certainly understandable.
@Gloryetta Harper Except that many other members of the Manson gang, who were also in the same situation as Van Houten and her coterie of fellow murderers, still managed to turn down flat Manson's request that they too should kill.
@@goldilocks3593. A psychopath.
There is a documentary where audio of Leslie Van Houton is explaining how eager she was to go to the Labianca's after hearing Susan Atkins talk about the murders on the prior night. While I can actually understand a young impressionable woman with issues finding herself in a manipulated situation where she reluctantly participated in something of this nature, perhaps deseving some grace after many years of paying a debt to society, I can't find any reasonable justification for someone who eagerly volunteered to go murder people. If your soul is so black that you are capable of that, then I can't believe that you miraculously became remorseful later.
"If insight is required to be released, she better get comfortable in prison" - an for something like this I just love you, Dr. Grande!!
Incite from the hypocrite [liberal] governor, maybe.
the victims' families will always show up to prevent her parole.
more power to them.
@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 Eight and a half month old "fetuses" are sometimes aborted deliberately.
@@enjoyslearningandtravel7957 The point is the inconsistencies, contradictions and double standards practiced so routinely by you people on the left, because basically you're getting a script from within your choirs and echo Chambers, rather than thinking about what words in any sense of practice actually mean.
What will she have when she gets out? Nothing. She’s actually better off where she is. Somewhere to sleep somewhere to eat and people to talk to. It’s not that bad.
@@frankpaya690 nobody legally aborts an eight and a half month fetus.
Hopefully, she'll outlive them!
When you’re good looking people always want to help… she’s out on bail, invited to oscars, pro bono legal counsel (from suitors), John Waters wants to be her friend.
None of the other Matson family members garnered this level of sympathy.
As a teen myself at the time, I remember this vividly. There were other mass murders in the intervening 53 years but you didn't see the perpetrators prancing around, laughing about their crimes and at their victims. The Tate-LaBianca murders are not going to be separated in the minds of the public, Dr. Grande. Van Houten felt she missed out on the first night and made sure to be included in the second night of murder. In a way, it is her misfortune that she's one of the last to die, thus keeping the horror of the murders still alive in the collective mind of society. Many have said that the Tate-LaBianca murders brought about the end of the hippies, the end of an era. It was hard to reconcile a free spirit/free love life after August, 1969 when every older person in America bestowed on us the sins of those murderers. Based on Dr. Grande's analysis I've searched my conscience to see if there is room for forgiveness of van Houten, particularly since I did not know her or any of the people involved. I have a sliver of empathy for her but mostly I'm still angry and bewildered. She willfully & willingly made choices that took her to the point where she finds herself today. What she represents is so pernicious that people want it, I mean her, out of sight.
I was nineteen at the time of the murders, and can remember how horrendous this incident was, I think the more so because Sharon Tate was just a few short weeks from giving birth. I also subsequently read the book 'Helter Skelter' in which all the horrific details were laid out.
The demeanor of each defendent did them no favors, but I think it was the butchery and overkill of the victims, plus the messages written in blood on the walls that sealed their fate. It's hard to imagine anyone, particularly young girls, being so savage, especially to a pregnant woman. In one of the chapters it stated how Abigail Folger escaped, and how Patricia Krenwinkle ran her down and stabbed her so many times, officers at the crime scene initially thought her white nightgown was red. It was the viciousness of these killers that demonstrated they were devoid of any humanity, and proved that monsters do walk amongst us.
@@peggygreeby5065 👍👍
@@peggygreeby5065 I was 10 at that time and a new sister was born into our family. I had just found out about the miracle of life from my mother. It was so unthinkable what happened. I would never meet the families associated with the losses. It's unthinkable to imagine, the most horrible crimes. I feel for their loss.
This woman personally stabbed a tied up victim 16 times and refused to even acknowledge any feelings of regret afterwards. I also think Dr. Grande is wrong that the only reason she has never been released is because people only view her as part of the Manson group or are afraid of future similar crimes. What she personally did is enough to keep her locked up for life.
Just because times has passed, does not make these crimes any less horrendous.
Aww, poor Leslie "I Only Stabbed a Dead Body" Van Houten. She has done nothing but blame others for her own choices since Day One. "They made me do this" and "He controlled my that." When all else fails, claim, "Well gee, the victim was already dead when I stabbed her, so that's not so bad, eh? Can I go home now?" She could have saved the lives of the LaBiancas and enthusiastically chose not to. She's already been spared the death penalty, that's more than enough mercy for me.
PLUS SHE CLAIMED ZSHE BEAT UP HER ADOPTED SISTER .
Me too. The woman are still devoted to Charles Manson, they made that pretty clear. That's the thing about anti socials, they are good at putting on an act, for a very long time.
@@thekrrib I don't even think they're devoted to "Manson" as much as they are devoted to class warfare. Manson was just their confirmation bias.
She was spared the death penalty so that’s enough mercy for her.
Amen
Such a Heartless, Heartbreaking Crime!! And then the same Cruel Crime the next night! Dear GOD! 💔💔💔💔💔🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 And the Poor Little Baby!💔🙏💔🙏💔💔💔🙏🙏
Renee - You always find the humanity! Thanks for that!💐
She absolutely SHOULD NOT BE RELEASED. These crimes were so heinous and so disturbing. Certainly, you can blame drugs, and you can blame Manson's "spell" but you can never convince me that she did not want to commit this crime.
Neither drugs nor Manson's "spell" had anything to do with these horrible killings. These were sociopaths who willingly murdered the LaBianca couple. One or of them killed a woman who was 8 months pregnant (Sharon Tate). I'm old enough to remember when that happened. It was the most evil thing I had ever heard of or seen in my life at the time. None of the killers should ever be paroled -- EVER!!
She's 73 years old now. How much longer is someone supposed to pay for a crime? The crime was horrible, but is there no such thing as redemption?
@@Wildflower5258_ she did not actually commit a murder. If she were your 18 yr old child caught up in a web of drugs when she was barely an adult, would you still want your child condemned until death when she didn't actually murder anyone? The autopsy proved it. Don't lump people all together. Look at them all as individuals. I say she deserves to get out and live her last days freely.
I would be life in prision, but government gave me permission. You dont see my buds in prision for innocent murdering ppl. They were made to be soldiers for his war.
She served her time and then some. She has rights like us all do,
As far as I’m concerned, they received their “parole”, ( and undeservedly) their death sentences were reduced to life imprisonment.
That part! I can’t get over the amount of times they all have went on to these parole hearings.. if they were remorseful then they would do the life bid & stfu.. People have been on death row & died on death row after their death sentences was commuted.. to me that was god right there so enough! They all have nerve to talk aggravated like someone getting on their nerves,, those interviews I watch with Patricia & Leslie my gosh the nerve.. Susan & Charlie interviews just a complete mess the way Susan lies… it seem like they were remorseful just to get out their bids, bc they talk to aggressive for me like ok I served my time let me out. No you served your time after you die in prison life sentence.. I kinda was wondering Why they didn’t get life w/o the possibility of parole…. Bc the families couldn’t even grieve properly nor live their lives they had to go to them hearings hearing them over & over! She needs to remain in prison even if she 99 don’t let her old ass out! Like Sharon mother said her daughter never coming out her grave so why should any of them be released
Leslie didn't get the death sentence. She got life with possibility of parole.
They all should have been put in "solitary confinement" for the rest of their lives. They would be alone in their cells, not being able to talk to other inmates or even have visitors. That, to me, is what they really deserved.
@@Wildflower5258_ yes, I agree. US prisons should allow psychological torture. We already imprison a higher percentage of our population than the rest of the world--with possible exceptions of China and Saudi Arabia.
May as well drop any pretense of being a modern, judeo-Chritian, western civilized nation.. let's bring back lions.
@@Wildflower5258_I dont see Muslims or Christians in prision for believing and following evil stuff, they are mere victims and victimize afterwards.
What would a fundamentalist church do if their pastor told to do shit? Yeah, most wont think, before they act. Neither do I find merican soldiers in prision for DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD
Amazing how those who kill others want to stay alive and live free.
YEAH LIKE THE MOB.
Hoax
Leslie van Houten never killed anyone I feel so bad for her 55 years of her life wasted by the evil justice system as evil as the Manson family. Van Houten as an example of the evil justice system.
Is it possible she just became more "educated" over the years and is able to hide her psychopathy? Either way, any Governor who releases her can say good bye to his or her career.
If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
Who knows.
you nailed it, don, on both counts. all those years locked down has just taught her to be smarter, conceal her psychopathy and no governor is going to toss away their career to let her or any of them out. i really can't see it. i wouldn't.
psychopathy doesn't really need to be concealed, no one hardly notices it. Not all people with psychopathic traits are murderers and sadistic people. I think since Leslie did contribute to the events of the massacre and she was a pliable individual under the power of a manipulating dominating person maybe there are some fears she could be a harmful individual, even in her 70's. I'm in my 70's and I know some strong 70 year olds. Each person is a unique individual so the risk asessment should be made very carefully. It was a really shocking crime. I think most of us knew hippie communes were pretty crazy environments, mostly full of unstable burnt out unemployed people who practiced unusual immoral living arrangements. As a hippie myself at the time I didn't feel any affinity with those types. I wore bellbottoms, beads, floppy hats and smoked Grass (weed). Nevertheless my short hippiedom went away as real life hit me, you know, like jobs, marraige and raising a family can quickly illiminate all the rough edges as surviving the real world requires some manner of compliance and attention to responsibility. I'm not sure about Leslie, I think I feel safer with her still in prison. Mostly because the crime was so bloody and violent. Just way too much abnormality regardless of all the years gone by. If she could bypass a certain line, cross over into that brutality, I feel uncomfortable trusting the amount of control she actually has over herself if a similar situation occured in her life even after all this time in prison. But heck, I even doubt women who have abortions. I feel uncomfortable around a mother who makes a conscious decision and asks for someone to kill her unborn within herself.
Donald trump and Kim kardashian released prisoners yet still have careers so it’s possible to do
In her book of essays, The White Album, Joan Didion brilliantly implies that the Manson murders were the death knell of the spirit of the 1960s.
This is absolutely true.
I think no governor wants the political ramifications of letting a Manson family member go free. It’s political. It’s nothing to do with her being a danger to society at this point. The influence of the cult has long worn off for her.
No Governor wants to be the one who didn’t reject her parole 🤔✌️
AGREE. THE GOVERNOR WOULD LOSE VOTES .
True. Even if the released person never committed another crime the political backlash would probably end the politician's career.
she's my age, so it won't be long now
Yes, it's all political bs.. If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
@@rullmourn1142 well duh!
How could she even be Considered for Parole????!!!!
I know they'll (hopefully) never release Squeaky Fromm. She was one of the worst ones, and even attempted to assassinate President Jimmy Carter.
Because she wasn’t sentenced to life without parole.
@Euripides Feldman III 73years old
Thank you.
How many times would she have had sex during her 53 years in prison?
I have to say that this particular criminal's fate is just about at the bottom of my list of things to worry about.
"It's believed Rosemary was already died when Leslie stabbed her"
It's believed by Leslie's fan club. It isn't believed by anyone who read the autopsy and applied some basic math to the number of wounds on Rosemary's back.
And even if she was already dead, the fact that Leslie stabbed her so many times is enough proof that she enjoyed it, which makes her a psychopath. She transferred her hatred for her mother towards other women, just like serial killers do. Killing someone by stabbing them so many times is not a mistake, but a conscious choice! Hope she rots in hell.
i sure don't believe it, leslie or her fan club.
Dead****🤨🤦🏻♀️
It was a matter of getting everyone’s hands dirty and she was encouraged to stab her whether dead or alive and she did. Manson knew exactly what he was doing and orchestrating to ensure no one ‘snitched.’
Regardless if the woman was dead already. She wanted to be in this murdering drug gang, so they are all guilty.
I love your frequent references to will smith slapping chris rock in recent videos.
Thank you very much for this analysis Dr. Grande. It's frightening to see how easily these young ones fell into Manson's cult/clutches.
Especially if you’re homeless and have no money. The new family becomes a real feeling.
@@barbaraspector6689they weren't all homeless & once the girls got passed around the first night they were there, wouldn't you think they'd run a mile?
It would be interesting to examine the cases of the Family members who weren't involved in the murders but remained loyal to Manson.
"Squeeky" Lynette Fromme wasn't chosen to go on the killing sprees because Manson knew she would be unable to participate. Some just didn't have it in them to kill strangers. The only reason Linda Kasabian was asked to go with them was she was the only person who had a drivers' license.
@@loralieisa. True dat. Poor Linda.
Sandra Good (an ironic last name if ever there was one), aka "Blue" has remained loyal to Manson until the end. A couple of interviews with her were some of the most frightening I've ever seen. Her wild-eyed expression was indescribable and was a textbook example of what is known as the "sociopathic stare."
There was a blog site on the Manson family for years that was being continually maintained and updated by a few children of cult members… it’s hard to fathom they refuse to separate themselves from any acquaintance with any members of the cult… many who still try to spread Charlie’s bizarre and racist “teachings”…
That’s probably why people have torched the few places once standing as a gathering place for these people… many of whom are related by blood because of how Manson manipulated his followers (which included the late Dennis Wilson of The Beach Boys), into having sex with whomever he chose! The blog was known as “The Manson Family Today”… although I don’t know if it’s still active.
Dr. Grande, can you do a video on Linda Kasabian? My family knew Kasabian in the early seventies. I only have a young child's memory of her. She seemed just like another mellow hippie chick. Though granted immunity and set free, the trauma ruined her life (IMO). She soon drifted into more trouble. Nothing on the order of Manson. Just social maladjustment and drugs. It was very sad. Her children had troubled lives too. Manson created misery that lasted multiple generations. Family member of the victims of the "Family" do show up to parole hearings. If the gang murdered my parent or sibling, I wouldn't want them to ever get out either. It is important to remember, however, that there were dozens and dozens of people in and out of Manson's sphere in just a couple of years. Only a few of them committed the murderous acts. Anyway, I'm interested in your analysis of Linda.
This "mellow hippie chick" drove the perpetrators to two grisly homicides, acting as the look out and therefore fully complicit in those crimes under California law.
She had many opportunities during the two day killing spree to alert the authorities by leaving a note, knocking on a neighbors door or simply driving away. She chose not to. She even drove the perpetrators to a third location where the target was not home. Nor did she alert authorities of said crimes even when she had left the state and her child was safe.
In exchange for her testimony, she turned snitch and was exonerated for her participation in these crimes, while the rest got the death penalty, later converted to de facto life sentences. My analysis? Complicit with sociopathic tendencies.
But yeah, according to Bugliosi she was a mellow hippie - a "heroine" - who just got involved with the wrong crowd.
Rest in peace, Linda Kasabian. Maybe.
My uncle’s 3rd cousin’s next door neighbor got his hair cut by Jay Sebring.
I remember watching one of her parole hearings on Court TV back in the ’90s; she never acknowledged the crimes by name and continually referred to “the incident that occurred.”
That's like when Chris Watts kept referring to his daughters as "girls" and "kids" in his TV and police station interviews. They call it distancing.
Let's free some more falsely convicted innocent inmates before we even think about releasing this obviously guilty monster.
AGREE
NICE ❣️CONCUR❣️
Everyone in jail is innocent though, just ask them
That’s a very good point!
Yes and who are these "falsely" "convicted" & "innocent" inmates you're thinking of?
As a young guy at the time of the murders, I attribute the Manson murders to the accelerated end of the hippie era. Young adults could no longer romanticize the lifestyle.
By no means were all young people of that era drug crazed hippie dippies. Some were very much against it. Most just watched from the sidelines
BS. They girls went to both homes to steal drugs and money. They followed Tex Watson. He knew both residences very well. Had nothing to do with anything else.
@@kevinc809 Your comment has almost nothing to do with my comment.
Whether or not she's changed, the fact remains Van Houten was a willing participant in crimes so horrendous that justice requires life behind bars, period. As far as the extent of Manson's influence goes, a number of his gang members still managed to turn Manson's murderous requests down flat, with one member actually telling him, "I'm not you Charlie, I can't kill." Paul Watkins, one of Manson's chief lieutenants, made sure he was nowhere near Spahn Ranch when he sensed something terrible was about to happen. Leslie Van Houten, on the other hand, chose to carry out these atrocities. Manson told them all to do something that would "shock the world" - Van Houten did just that, and now she must pay the price.
No she should’ve been released in 1976
@@yokolee5243 No she should've been released on the 12th of Never
@@guydreamr she never killed anyone and the world is far more fucked up. The prison system has essentially killed her at 19
That is flat-out false. "We started stabbing and cutting up the lady [Rosemary La Bianca]," Van Houten testified. Van Houten brought knives from the kitchen and she held down Rosemary while Tex Watson stabbed her. When Watson then told Van Houten to "do something" she stabbed Rosemary in the back 14 times. That's *far* more fucked up then most of the world is. See People Magazine, "Former Manson Follower Leslie Van Houten Released from Prison."
@@yokolee5243 That is flat-out false. "We started st---ing and cutting up the lady [Rosemary La Bianca]," Van Houten testified. Van Houten brought knives from the kitchen and she held down Rosemary while Tex Watson s----- her. When Watson then told Van Houten to "do something" she s----ed Rosemary in the back 14 times. That's *far* more fucked up then most of the world is. See People Magazine, "Former Manson Follower Leslie Van Houten Released from Prison."
“She would not have become a criminal without him” is the one thing I disagree on. She was heavily tied to Bobby Bolsouleil who was also a criminal/had a big influence on her. I think she would have still committed crimes because of this albeit maybe not as serious (although Bobby did murder someone too).
she made the choice to follow manson and tak;e lsd.
It's such a tough thing to ponder. Had she not crossed paths with Manson would she have still met the same fate? Who's to say she wouldn't have come across another detrimental influence? We will never know. One small change of circumstances and she may have never known the name Manson, we can only wonder how big of an impact that change would've had.
DJ Castano Was she tied to Beausoleil before she met Manson and his "family"? Just curious.
@@jimhumphrey she was yes. Part of the reason she went along with these crimes is because Bobby had murdered someone and was in prison and she thought the tate/labianca murders would make it look like they arrested the wrong guy. She was Bobby’s girl not Charlie’s. He brought her around and when he got arrested she stuck around to try to help “free him.”
@@djcastano1180 Jeff Guinn's biography is probably the best, most detailed account of Manson and the Manson Family.
In a sad way, Im glad this story is not lost in the dust. We need to be reminded of our innate horror as humans.
turn on the news, it's a daily reminder.
@@Jfladager Yah. It's normalized. Politicized. :(((
Nancy: "Innate horror as humans" re the Manson family, I must disagree. Oh, you are right about this, and this is true with so many humans, I simply have an innate NEED to believe that most humans are born innately good. Perhaps you are the realist. As an FYI, Vincent Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter" is the most fabulous account of these people. As a twist, see "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" With Bradd Pitt (Academy Award, and Leo D.) The story is there, a different ending of course. I loved it.
@@dianedo1234 :)))
I get what you are saying but there are so many horrible murders and other atrocities committed every day. Does this story really need our attention anymore? What a tragic waste of life in every way, this whole story has gone on and on. Manson is dead now but his notoriety lives on through phantom parole hearings. Governors are politicians who make decisions to please their constituents. Why have a parole board if you aren't going to take their advisement? Why waste time and resources on all these parole hearings? When their death sentences were commuted to life, why was there an automatic eligibility for parole? Is it just so we can all revisit this horrible story? Life should have meant life without the possibility of parole, period! Judges CAN and DO impose that sentence. Dr Grande is correct about this case garnering a lot of media product over the years. It has been milked to the last possible dollar it can produce.
I read one from Patricia Krenwinkle, another member. She made sense when she said no punishment is enough for what she did. She was the one who chased Abigail Folger and stabbed her to death in the yard/garden.
She was not the one who chased Gabby out the bedroom door she wasn't even there on that first night. Patricia Krenwinkle is the one who murdered Ms Folger. Get the facts before commenting.
I apologize when you stated "she was the one who chased Ms Folger" you were referring to the person who made the statement about punishment not the person who did the chasing. After their death sentences were overturned Vanhouten wasn't too happy about it. This was in a very early interview she said she would rather die than spend life in prison thinking about what she had done.
I watched a doc about Patricia and watched her interact with Sharon Tate's sister. It was very disturbing. Patricia might "say" the right words at times but in this emotional state she clearly showed a lack of insight, selfishness, and a victim mentality. She believes the families OWE her forgiveness, bc she has repented. No, forgiveness is a choice and a gift. It's not a right of murderers who have decided they deserve it.
I think the documentary was on Amazon Prime video if anyone is interested in learning more about Patricia. I hope she is never released.
Patricia Krenwinkle said that as she repeatedly stabbed Abigail Folger, she said "stop stabbing me I'm already dead".
My best friend,was a close friend of Jay Sebring,one of the victims,keep all of them in prison.Sharon Tate begged for her life,and that of her baby,they showed no mercy,they are where they belong.
I think anyone who was alive during this horrible crime, such as the governors, would have the memory of this incredible atrocity forever etched in their heart, mind and soul. It was so high profile before many horrors of this magnitude were high profile.
So when a murderer is sentenced to life imprisonment without parole, that's what it means. Why can't there be clear boundaries with her case?
Just Say No to crime.
If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
@Gloryetta Harper I know I was referencing Nancy. Hey, she tried. No slogan has stopped the hideous drug dilemma.
On my side, I just pray the Rosary everyday for my own soul and everyone else.
I think Leslie is exactly where she needs to be. She was at one murder scene, and that didn't affect her. She was at/participated in the next murders. That is a pattern of behavior, not a one off - especially remembering there was a lot of varied criminal behavior previous to these particular murders.
Just about every prisoner finds 'God' when incarcerated. What they do when they get out may or may not relate to their 'come to Jesus' time in prison.
Serial killers should be separated from society. She falls into this category.
🎯 🎯🎯
I was in California in 1969. Big time for new drugs. Lots of homeless people wandering around not knowing what anything meant anymore. I got out. Thank God.
Serial killers and pedophiles... Throw in animal abusers too.
@@barbaraspector6689 ..Theres 100 times more of them in CA, now.
She wasn't at the first murder scene. You do need to get these things right if you're going to comment.
I respect your opinion in this case. I feel that the people of the State of CA already showed her and her co-defendants mercy by commuting their death sentences to life with the possibility of parole. While she may have been a model prisoner, the gruesomeness of her crime dictates that prison should serve as just punishment. Her victims and their families will never get parole or be able to separate themselves from those horrible nights or her actions. She should not get that privilege. She should never get to breathe free air again. She made her decision all those decades ago.
I saw many of Leslie’s interviews and parole hearings and it seemed to me that she was very sorry for her crimes now. On the other hand it seemed like Susan Atkins did not seem remorseful at all and could not even apologize because she thought those words were meaningless at this point. It would be interesting to hear an analysis of her too.
For some reason I am very put off by Susan Atkins.
Susan Atkins was a disgusting human being & at first she was proud of what she had done. Later she changed her story & said Tex killed Sharon because she couldn't bring herself to do it even though she held the knife in the air and was ready to bring it down on Sharon the hand of God reached out and grabbed her forcing her to stop so Tex had to take over and finish. Sharon's mom stated that she "knew that Susan Atkins face was the last thing her daughter saw". It was heart wrenching. As Susan told her story in the beginning she bragged how she was able to stay focused as Sharon begged for her life and the life of her baby;. Atkins just laughed and stated "bitch I don't give a damn about you or your kid". As she relayed details of the crime to the Grand Jury more than one ran out physically ill from her disgusting recount of what she saw and heard that night. If all she said was true then Atkins is the one who wrote on the front door using Sharon's blood. That woman was pure evil.
If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
Susan never sounded remorseful. Leslie and Patricia Krenwinkle have expressed their remorse many times. My understanding is that Pat Krenwinkle has worked with training guide dogs while in prison and has been an advocate for other prisoners, and Leslie also has worked with other women in prison as a group facilitator.
Susan atkins was the one who
Told Sharon Tate “B*, I don’t
give a damn about your baby,” when Sharon pleaded for her baby’s life.
I feel split on this one. She was supposed to originally be on death row but her sentence got commuted to life in prison (California getting rid of the death penalty). Someone explain to me how parole is then possible. I really don't understand this at all.
Well you do have a person there who either is rehabilitated or not. The victim can not be brought back to life so their life was lost and their family and friends lost also. But you still have the perpetrator to deal with and it seems to me that mercy can play a certain part in all of this mess!
If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
First off, her sentence commutation had nothing to do with California getting rid of the death penalty (which is technically still on the books to this day). It was a federal decision that affected all the states back in the '70s. Back then the default (non-death penalty) sentence for first degree murder in CA was life with the possibility of parole, so everyone on death row got that sentence by default after the courts (incorrectly) ruled the death penalty was unconstitutional. The death penalty was later reinstated, but the law does not allow for someone's sentence to be harshened after the fact. So, she only avoided the death penalty because of a legal technicality. If her re-trial had been 10 years later, she could have just as easily gotten the death penalty again - since, by then, the death penalty was back on the table both federally and in CA. (The only reason people in CA are not being executed these days is because there's a court injunction that our attorney general (at the behest of the governor) isn't challenging. The majority of CA voters, according to polls and a not that long-ago ballot measure, actually still approve of the death penalty in certain cases, but our elected dictators don't care about the will of the people or the law of the land - so they refuse to execute those sentences. (As recently as this year, people have been sentenced to death in CA by juries in various counties, but as long as the moratorium exists, and the governor refuses to challenge it, none of those people or the few hundred people on CA death row will ever face execution. Yet, on the other hand, the governor will deny their parole - ensuring they die in prison one day. It really makes no sense how adamant he is that the death penalty be abolished, yet at the same time, he's happy to deny parole and let someone die in prison. It's a very incoherent position if you ask me. But that's CA for you.
Extremely GOOD QUESTION?, life means LIFE!!!.
@@edwardcatton315 She wasn't sentenced to life in prison though
While she may not be a danger to others now due to her age, she will have notoriety and clearly doesn't mind media attention. We should not reward her with her freedom and possible financial gain when she killed so brutally. Attending the Oscars seems pretty arrogant. She didn't learn anything. The fact that she will be sought out for interviews and other offers is the reason she shouldn't be let out. In prison, she is limited in this kind of contact
AGREE
Exactly!
Oh for Christ sake she's not going to kill anybody she's never killed anybody she wasn't even there the first night. You could be right and she will probably be sought after for interviews but she also may be sought after by criminals who want to make a mark in history. I'm the ONE who murdered one of the girls who murdered Sharon Tate. If she ever does get out she probably should stay out of sight for her own safety.
Great points!!
What do you mean that she clearly doesn't mind media attention? That seems like a dumb sentence considering that for 53 years all of these murderers--except for Manson himself--have spent all their time turning down requests for interviews. In one of her parole hearings she refuses to take part when she sees the tv cameras. Despite non-stop media interest in this case, she's only granted a few interviews in 53 years. I'd say they arev all clearly not interested in more media attention.
Van Houten is a very complicated individual. I interviewed her briefly in 2002 at CIW (CA. Institute for Women), she seemed very contrite by that time, but WHO wouldn't after 3+ whole decades of living in a penal institution? CIW is rancid, raggedy, and rotten to the core. Even the ground water is contaminated. She was somewhat likeable then, now 20 years after that interview, I'm neutral about her release. Diane Sawyer went to CIW and interviewed her as well in '02. She's elderly now, how dangerous could she be? Thanks Dr. G.
Actually elderly can be extremely dangerous. You get closer to dying yourself, why pity a potential victim? And people let you get close to them, because you look like grandma.
It's not about her age. It's about consequences for choices she made! When Rosemary comes up for parole, then Leslie can!
@@lizhall2160 well said👍👍
How old? Older than her victims were ever able to be.
What an interesting and intriguing case! I love that you included information about all the characters involved. Excellent analysis, Dr. Grande! ❤️
Wow. Thank you. I just finished reading "Helter Skelter." Truly frightening stuff.
now read "Chaos"
As someone who is old enough to remember these murders, I don't think she will ever be released. Emotion was so high and news coverage has never really ended, reminding people of how horrible the murders were. No doubt she would be fine if released. But there are a lot of people who just want them all to be punished until the end of their lives.
If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
@@rullmourn1142 Oh no doubt!
why shouldn't they be? after all, they "punished" their victims until the end of their lives. no sympathy here.
@@lisabradford8180 Not much from me either. It was so horrible for the victims.
In order to commit these types crimes these individuals must be inclined to do so, stated earlier that she had beat others in her family for pleasure, all she needed was a small push to commit these crimes, trying to say that others to blame is false, she is now held accountable, she will commit these crimes again if given a chance if she could get away with it, she has no feelings towards others.
I'm glad she's free now. She's not a danger, she paid a HEAVY price, and her being in jail isn't doing anyone any actual GOOD anymore.
"She would have not become a criminal without manson" is a statement that can't be proven. We don't know what she may or may not have done because she was in prison. She may or may not have deserved parole, but if she did, I can't bring myself to say this was a miscarriage of justice.
I think the world needs to adopt the views of a certain Mr. Castle. Killers can be created whole cloth at a whim, but those that live by the sword should die by it. Our society should not cater itself to reformed monsters, it should line them against the wall and shoot them in the first place.
The fact is she did , period . Commit the crime you do the time .
They were all criminals before they met Manson. They followed Tex Watson to both murders to steal drugs and money. Helter Skelter is a complete lie.
“In those days you had to do it yourself, no one would come up and do it for you” 🙌🤣
I think anyone who wields a knife that aggressively, that many times, regardless if those stabs caused the death or not, should get life in prison.
Yes, I agree she should be released, but I don't think any Governor will allow that to happen. Do Govs get to reject every parole in California?
I found your connection between the “Satanic panic “and cancel culture to be very intriguing. I have also had this thought. The so-called Satanic panic happened when I was a teenager. Even at the time I had the strong impression that many adults had lost touch with reality. It made quite an impression on me. And I was even personally accused of reading satanic materials because I read fantasy themed books as a 12 and 13 year old. Perhaps a video exploring these connections would make a good topic. I am also of the opinion that there is a similar social panic going on regarding child abductions. While these obviously occur, they are quite rare compared to the degree of societal alarm around the topic.
child abductions are not as rare as you seem to think...do some research
@@American_Mary. Actually they aren't as common as many people think.
@@AndyColglazier lol
@@AndyColglazier look up Washington State. It's actually rising
Yeah that's what gave Christians a bad rap during the '80s and '70s when they would try to say that the devil was coming out of music sounds...
I wonder if there is any stipulation that she can't benefit financially from her crimes. Like if she were to be granted parole could she write a book or be financially compensated for giving interviews? One would hope she wouldn't be able to be paid for what she did but in today's upside down world, where bad is good and good is bad, I wouldn't be surprised.
that's been a law a long time.
You can write a book like this and get it published while in prison. That doesn't sound like a concern that should keep her imprisoned.
@@rullmourn1142. Yes it has. I believe it began right before Berkowitz.
That slap joke was LEGENDARY🤣🤣🤣
So glad Leslie finally got out. I hope things are going well for her!
😝 I'm sorry to laugh in such a serious video but I like how you threw the Will Smith slap in there without saying it 😁
I was looking for this comment...In the good old days pre-2022, Host and Guests had to Slap themselves during the Oscars 😃
@@dianamartin6718 I did not know that, I honestly can say I have never watched the Oscars. 🤷♂️ I'm only aware of them because of the video that I seen where Will Smith slept Chris Rock
Give her freedom on parole when the woman she participated in murdering gets her life back.
I fully understand your feelings on this. I often have the same feeling when I hear someone argue that a killer shouldn't get life or death and should be allowed to live on freely. I'm like 'Where was that compassion when they murdered someone and took THEIR chances at a life away'. But then, we can't be as the killers are. We have to be better than them, we have to DO better than them. I just don't know what that entails fully.
A very good question! We are NOT homicidal as a society so must be more merciful in some way. But what is right? The victims never get to testify! Even the families of the victims get little real expression of their feelings!
@@bthomson well said
@@FallingGalaxy you are quite the Pollyanna and cheap optimist aren't you, when you're only viewing something in the abstract.
@@frankpaya690 Aloha🌺 I think FallingGalaxy's comment is a valid point and question. I am not sure precisely how you interpreted it as 'cheap' optimism. I viewed it as stating the importance of holding a criminal accountable while ensuring not to take on the mentality of hate or disregarding life. This is important. Each person must pay attention and take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions, for we are all capable of hate, hurting others, adopting false beliefs and hypocrisy.
I believe Leslie should remain in jail to honor the life she took and accept accountability for her actions. In my opinion, this is compassion to all involved. If Leslie has had time to clear her mind, reflect and elevate her thinking, that is its own reward. The punishment has honored the victims, protected the public and offered her the one freedom we all have, in all situations, should we choose exercise it, freedom of thought.
before i learned about her fate, i saw sharon tate in a film and i thought "she's amazing, why haven't i seen her in anything else?" :c
I'm glad she has experienced rehabilitation in prison. However, the punishment must fit the crime.
Your sense of humor gets me every time. 😂 I wait for the jokes and am satisfied again and again.
Brilliant, Dr. Grande 👌
"Because of a dispute he had with a previous renter of the house".
Because that makes total sense. I guess when you have naive, impressionable stoners at your command you can get them to do anything.
Manson knew that if Melcher wasn't living there anymore, some other celebrities would. He wanted someone famous get killed and cause the stupid "Helter Skelter" thing.
This case presents a good opportunity to talk about the purpose of our criminal justice system and the effect of politics on it. There’s really no question about dangerousness - Leslie isn’t a danger and everyone knows that. The reason she hasn’t been released is: politics. No politician is willing to be the one who released a Manson. The moral/ethical question is harder- do we keep people in prison because they “deserve it” or do we release those who aren’t dangerous?
Life means life. I was an adult when this happened and is possible one of the main reasons I did not take mind altering drugs. .. also I read Susan Adkins book,Child of Satan, Child of God: Her Own Story. Also Vincent Bugliosi’s book Helter Skelter. This scared me. Only perverted, unnatural cruel persons could do the things like this. They should have gotten death.
@Gloryetta Harper well said!!!!
But life doesn't actually mean life though does it? Not in California or most states.
they did get the death penalty originally but , in 1972, the death penalty was struck down so their sentences became life with a possibility of parole.
@@lisabradford8180 That wasn't Leslie's sentence. She was tried separately from the others in 78. Legally, she never got the death penalty.
@@Firefoxy-rz1nw she was first tried in 1970 along with the others, found guilty in jan 1971 and they were all sentenced to death at that time. their death sentences were commuted to life in prison in 1972. so she did legally receive a death sentence.
I really hope you’ll do an analysis of the sadistic woman and others who tortured Sylvia Likens to death. That case blew me away.
I was thinking of that case myself while reading these comments. And That Woman did get released from prison and lived under a new name. The release was big news in Indianapolis when it happened in the mid-80s. She was as evil as Manson.
Idk how that disgusting wench got out. I say do to her what she did to sylvia...& anyone else involved PERIOD
@@tmoore1144 wow! I’m surprised someone didn’t exact vigilante justice from her! She’s going to that really hot hot hot place one day- can’t be soon enough.
@@jhanimalluvr5932 she died ten years ago.
I never heard that she went to the Oscars. What psychopath would take her to the Oscars after Sharon Tate was just brutally murdered? And they allowed her in the building??!!
SICKOS!
she was working several years as a legal secretary while out on bond as well
Right?? That’s messed up. Especially every celebrity was terrified of the Manson Family.
no bad publicity, I guess
Cite source please.
She's served over 50 years in prison and appears to be a changed person. It costs more to keep her locked up than it would to release her. I agree with Dr.Grande's analysis.
It’s odd how much they used her background against her. If she had a bad upbringing, if she had been a troubled youth, would they have let her out early? That seems odd to me.
Yay! Can't wait to listen to this! I was thinking about reaching out to you, Dr. Grande, and ask you to speak on Leslie Van Houten!!
I think this case highlights the idea of redemption after a crime. Can someone be forgiven after something so horrible? But there's so much that goes into it; her background, Charles Manson's influence over her, over them all, her age at the time...she was a vulnerable young woman living transient lifestyle, no goals, no support. Its complicated, but I would hope that redemption is a possibility after all these years. But maybe I'm just an optimist. It was a horrible crime, but she's lived the majority of her life in jail and that's a terrible existence in itself. I don't know. Thanks Dr. Grande, I like having moral debates, they certainly get the gears turning in my head. 💓
Yes! These videos make us think!
she can redeem herself in prison
She chose that lifestyle. She wasn't from a background of deprivation. She had options and chose to be a transient and she chose to take drugs, she chose her friends and she chose to murder.
Well, that's why we have God and Jesus Christ....to forgive any and everyone unconditionally. This is why they are supreme beings and we mere mortals are NOT. So, they'll forgive me as well, and countless others, for being unable to forgive the Mansons, the Hitlers, the Ted Bundys, and the child molesters of the world. I'm sorry, it's just not in me to forgive monsters like the aforementioned ones here, because I am not God.
@@cht2162 We're not talking about a child she's was an adult. She came from a decent enough background. She was old enough to know right from wrong. She made her choices and no one twisted her arm. She could have just as easily chosen to go to school and or to work and made something of herself. She chose to becomes a bum and criminal. IDC what a fictional man named Paul has to say about it. I chose reality over ancient fantasies.
Just curious, does anyone know what became of Linda Kasabian? She didn't actively participate in any of the murders but went along as a driver--she had a valid license and Charlie didn't want to spoil the murders by "being pulled over on some seatbelt $hit". She turned states evidence on them in a hurry.
This has always been an extremely commlicated case, and I've spent many hours putting myself in their surroundings, and Ive come to the conclusion (from past, much lesser influencers) that there is a line that I would not cross, no matter what the pressure or cost. I truly believe it comes down to how much of your own moral ground you willing to sell to "fit in" And I could never cross such a cruel line if it meant harming another human being, no matter what the pressure and influences were. I've challenged myself, but I hold so incredibly firm in this belief.
There are many weak and bendable creatures- but it should never be used as an excuse for your own behavior. You ultimately have the choice- to follow, or to run. I would run as fast as my legs would carry me!
If she were not connected to the name Manson she would have been paroled over 20 years ago, it's political. These governors don't think she's a threat to society, that's obvious from being denied parole by these two super liberal governors who let other killers out on parole, and give violent offenders low, low bail. Brown and especially Newsome are complete hypocrites, they only denied her parole for their own political interests, and I can promise you that.
Agreed. I’m sorry but when you cross the line to harm other people because someone else told you to you have made a choice. There are naturally times this isn’t as black and white , like with child soldiers. But that isn’t the case here.
Great analysis, Dr. Grande. I would only make one correction: Leslie was raised in a very 1960's middle class neighborhood in Monrovia California, as opposed to "upper middle class".
I was best friends with Leslie's older brother throughout our last 2 years of high school (1963/1964). I enjoyed many sleep-over's at the Van Houten residence during this period, and I grew to know the existing family members, including Leslie, on an intimate basis. We all attended the same high school. When Leslie's brother and I were seniors, Leslie was a Freshman.
After our graduation in 1964, Leslie's brother moved north to San Francisco to attend college and to be near his father. We lost contact at this point. I reunited with the Van Houten family when I began dating Leslie's adopted sister in 1972. By this time, Leslie had been convicted and was incarcerated on "Death Row" at The California Institution for Women (CIW). I will tell you that the entire incident took a terrible toll on Leslie's mother, and siblings.
I can only attest to the young women I knew prior to her involvement with Charles Manson. Leslie Van Houten was a sweet, sensitive, outgoing, well-liked individual; and a typical teenager by contemporary standards. In the face of her sincere atonement, it is unfortunate that her parole continues to be denied for the sake of political expediency.
Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice kind too. At least until he graduated from high school.
@Gloryetta Harper She hasn't missed her whole life, she's very much alive and in prison. I think she may have forfeited the life she could have had when she committed murder. I don't have a problem with that.
@@THE-id1by Semantics. You know what this woman is trying to say. Do you feel clever now? She has not changed your mind and you have not changed hers. yawn. At least she appears to be genuine. Son't bother responding. I have no interest in your boring retorts.
@Gloryetta Harper I agree. She has been suitable for release for many years. She has the opportunity to help women on the outside, especially young women who have had problems with the law.
Objection, Dr. Grade is calling for speculation
Overuled
LMAO
Sustained!
Hearsay
Very cute thread!👩💼
I understand they talk about the drugs playing a big part in what happened and Im sure it did to an extent, but even still you must have some serious darkness inside you to actually be able to commit such horrific acts on another human being. Does that type of darkness ever fully goes away or does it just gets easier to hide as time goes by??
Yes. She's so phony.
The prisons are filled with hundreds of prisoners who “find God” and are “remorseful” and say they are different people. They also “appear” to change changed by their behaviors in the prison. Does this also mean they should be released too? Her release would open the door for the argument for many other convicted of murder.
Many other convicted murders have been paroled. The difference is Leslie is more of a political prisoner than a prisoner of our justice system. With that being said, I still feel she is where she belongs.
Young minds can be so easily influenced. The whole Manson Family story SHOULD serve as a constant tragic reminder.
Now the slapping herself in the face at the Oscars, tragically hip. 😂
Accountability is the best teacher & deterrent 👍
I went to C.I.W alil over 15 years ago n I went to there sweat lodge where Leslie worked at at the time,n she wasn't arrogant,manipulative or anything else bad they said she was.she did mature n has very good manners n does have remorse,she learnt How to CARE...yall can go by hear say but I met her n she does deserve 2 b out for the ending of her life,remember the sick mind was Charlie's he gave the orders to these LSD using people hell I might of done the same on lsd if he told me..les I pray u get one chance I no u won't blow it...
I find myself saying "Oh, Dr. Grande.." at least once during every one of your videos. You are such a gem.