Ned Christie - Cherokee Outlaw?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ย. 2020
- In 1887 NeDe WaDe aka Ned Christie, a Cherokee Nation blacksmith & statesman, was accused of murdering a deputy U.S. Marshal. The conflict that followed, sometimes referred to as Ned Christie's War, lasted 5 years and saw the media and law enforcement brand Christie as a rank outlaw. But how true were these claims? Was Ned Christie a criminal or simply a man unwilling to take the fall for a crime he didn't commit?
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Check out the book Ned Christie: The Creation of an Outlaw and Cherokee Hero by Devon Mihesua!!!
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Excerpt From Ned Christie: The Creation of an Outlaw and Cherokee Hero - OUpress.orgwww.oupress.com/content/assets/excerpt/9780806159102.pdf
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Cherokee.org
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Sitting in the Quah drinking a beer revisiting this episode. My wife is Cherokee and I'm Choctaw. She has been to the sight of Neds fort. Anywho keep up the good work.
Tahlequah is pronounced like "towel- a- kwaw" by Oklahomans.
That’s where my family is from. 100% Cherokee. Bunch and Cookson Oklahoma
That's what I'm saying my family is from tahlequah Oklahoma and we always pronounced it different than how he's pronouncing it
@@maj3stikq122 really I got family from cookson too
You clearly aren't from around here cuz anyone from or around tahlequah calls it the quah and pronounces it Tah-La-Cwah
Council meetings held here. My dad will be attending this year. Who else is going?
Being from Polk County Tennessee, I can confirm that the signs of the Cherokee are still everywhere. Finding arrow heads is common when turning the garden.
Grew up and continue to live within a few miles of both the Zeke Proctor shootout at Whitmire and Ned's fort at Wauhilla. Know some of the descendants of both men. They're good folks. Enjoyed the podcast and ,as usual, appreciated the fair way the story was told. Food for thought: It could be that Ned knew he was innocent and saw no reason why he should have to defend himself in a white man's court for something he didn't do and that he shouldn't have to answer for. But there is another story. If you were starting across a foot log in as rough and tumble a place as Tahlequah at that time, and someone yelled at you out of the darkness and in a threatening way would you shoot first or would you take the time to ask him if he was a marshal? If he was a marshal and you'd already shot, then what would you do?
Smile
@@allanjohnson6083 😁
Nice job, several atrocities were still be caused as late at 1970s by the government. Like you I feel their plight is ingored all to often.
I'm glad you gave him respect by not showing that ghoulish death picture of him.
Really looking forward to that Heck Thomas episode. One of my personal favorites!
EXCELLENT channel, man!👍
Thanks, man!
I think you were pretty close to the actual truth on Neds story ! There was no established truth to link him to the deputys death yet he was pursued as the killer! Very well done !
Hands down you have my absolute favorite channel on TH-cam thank you for the content.
You're far too kind, Logan
Loved this one very informative and kept me laughing. Keep making history fun to listen to
Thank you, Danny! Keep listening!
Quickly becoming my favorite new channel. Currently reading Blood Meridian.
I love that book so much
I currently live in Oklahoma. Central, near the Kansas border. Sometimes when the wind is whipping across the prairie I swear i can hear the echoes of an age gone by. Last book I read about this area was empire of the summer moon. Oh, to be a 15 year old boy in this place 200 years ago.
My maternal great grandmother was a member of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation. I have Cherokee on my father's side too, with Irish , German and Ashkenazi (European Jewish ) thrown in. I've subscribed and will look forward to your videos.
I remember that series of books put out by Time-Life
I remember a couple different ones. But I do remember Ned posing with his armaments - propped up whilst stone cold dead. I always confused him with Bill Doolin, reclines with a chest full of buck shot.
DO ONE ON FRANK LESLIE
Ned christy had hair almost to his ass was propped up fully clothed with his dead hands holding his Winchester! Bill doolin was layed out on some plank boards shirtless perforated with bullet holes with empty dead hands
Good job with your story. I enjoyed listening to it. Had some funny parts in there too. Paden Tolbert was one of the Deputy U.S. Marshal’s who went to get Ned Christie. I’m from where Tolbert was raised in Arkansas. Paden served as a deputy sheriff in Johnson County prior to being a US Marshal. Paden’s brother John was also a marshal. Paden also served with another well known Deputy US Marshal Bud Ledbetter. Ledbetter was a town Marshal in Coal Hill, arkansas and a Johnson County Deputy prior to being a marshal. Locally the story is told that Paden and his posse met at the, later burned down, Johnson County Court house during the night so no one would know their plan. Then they rode the train to fort smith where they met some other Marshals and went to Talequah from there. Paden, OK was also named after Paden Tolbert.
Another job well done, love the passion you have for this subject and time in our great countries history. Always look forward to the next episode. Don't listen to HR bud OUTLAW UP and handle your business. Your episodes are always talked about at The Outlaw Saloon over a beer or Whisky depending on the taste of the day or just how drunk we want to get. Keep doing what you do love the podcast.
Love the Outlaw Saloon posse!!!!
As an over the road trucker and an avid old west/ American history lover I’ve got to say, I absolutely love your podcast! I have that entire time/life old west series as well as the civil war series
Thanks! Stay safe out there on the road
Genuine simulated hand tooled leather? 👏🤠
Thank you so much for this thorough, balanced accaount of his story. I too, have the Time-Life book, that piqued my interest in the man and WTF actually happened between the featured photo and the infamous "grip 'n grin" on the door. In the 40-odd years since, I've found little more than the 2 pix and the "renegade Injun" narrative. You've very masterfully told us "the rest of the story". And the contextual "epilogue" was so essential and well prsented. Full fuckin' respect and kudos!
Wow, thank you
Dude this show is awesome! We love it!
Story I heard was Heck Thomas fired the shot that hit the bridge of Ned's nose and ricocheted into his right eye and blinded him from that socket. After that, Ned shot left handed. Also during the last fight Ned bolted from the burning cabin running right past a deputy who turned and fired a shot that hit Christie in the back of the head just behind the right ear that killed him instantly. Christie never fired a shot at anyone during that final dash.
From Cherokee and Creek heritage.Another great video.Look forward to the next one
Thank you, sir
Great podcast! One of my favorites! 👍🏻👍🏻
You and I might have been buddies if you’d grown-up in central Ohio. I have the whole set of those Time-Life, “leatherette” bound, ‘Old West’ books-ordered directly from the television screen on an old rotary-dialed telephone that I had to walk over to the desk it sat on to use! (The hardships of growing up in the 60s and 70s) 😂 I’m dismayed to hear they aren’t 100% historically accurate! Having two English professors for parents, books were one of the only things I could USUALLY get them to bust out a credit card for! Another great video brother! Semper Fi (Keep your powder dry) 👍🏼❤️
Great job 👏🏻 I really appreciate this episode
Read Ned's story about 20 yrs ago. Can't remember the author - lost the book somewhere. But what you recounted here was about the dame thing I'd read, even with the supossitions about the unknowns.
Great job, Josh! Keep the good work up!
Thanks
Larry McMurtry wrote a story called "Zeke and Ned". A historical novel based on Ned's last year or two. Excellent book.
I came here after listening to the podcast Legends of the Old West. I was very intrigued in the story of Ned and now I'm hooked on your channel. I like the way you narrate it reminds me the narrator from Dukes of Hazzard. And I'm going to inquire to donate to a charity for the Native Americans. Your message towards the end messages opened my heart. Thank you. I look forward to more on your series. I'll keep within my video viewing listening rotation. ✌🏽
Thanks, legends of the old west is a great show!
My family was mixed with cherokee. The land was part of it but what you failed to mention is cherokee women were friggin HOT!
Awesome brother. I fall asleep listening to you cast, cuz I work for a living driving truck, but I like a good story and this soothes my 55 yr old souls yes soul's think I've been there done that!
Or (Iam bat shit crazy) IDK your podcast is great and I can finally dream at night. Without drugs lol. Nice job Josh great stories and truth as best as you can find it , I send them to my friends . Keep up the great works and history my friend.✌️❤️🙏💯🇺🇸
Thanks man! Don't fall asleep driving!
So much research had to be found and placed in a sequence. Great research sir! The humor ads extra entertainment, much appreciated.
Glad you enjoyed it!
there is a good book by Larry McMurtry titled Zeke and Ned about Christie, enjoyed reading it. The way to say the name of the town is more like Tally Kwa btw ;)
Love your podcasts Josh! Thank you so much! Really look forward to them. And keep cussing! Lol
Thank you, Cory!
Glass was probably discovered by someone who may have seen sand hit by lightning, glass is mostly sand. Depends on the time in history. But yeah when lightning hits sand it turns to glass.
I’m Chickasaw and my great grandmother got sent there too.
I have just found this "podcast" and share it on MeWe on several different pages, Tombstone old West history & several Native American pages. All enjoy it as it tries to paint the real history of the old west from a modern perspective.
I like that your willing to be corrected and even mention the times you are corrected. It shows a dedication to the truth and that makes you a bit more of a historian than your ego allows you to claim.
Thanks
Old time "Ruby Ridge"... amiright?!?....
Edit.! You brought this up too,! Great job!!
Great vid as always
You're great as always
"How's the weather up there?"
Spit on their head and tell them,"its raining"
That was the response I hear Wilt Chamberland used after hearing the same question so many times. I doubt it the same person asked twice.
The fact that he converted his pistols from black powder to cartridge is very impressive!
I wouldnt say impressive, he most likely just analyzed other guns enough to understand how it some what worked
I am Cherokee. Family is from tahlequah Oklahoma. Cookson, keys and bunch Oklahoma. Many of this history runs way back into my family. I love these episodes thank you sir
Very cool, thank you
You are a great historian! Keep it up!
I am descendant from Dan Maples, just extra bits to add to the story - He was killed the first night he had set up camp in the Cherokee nation. His son (Samuel) was also part of the group sent to find outlaws in the Cherokee nation. Dan and his son had come back from getting supplies from the nearby town and shots were fired from a nearby bush at the group, Samuel was behind his dad in the group and watched his dad get shot. He never returned to Oklahoma/Arkansas after Christie was killed, moving too California then Canada where he died in a blizzard. Before Christie was decided to be the only suspect, both the Cherokee nation and Benton county had rewards for the arrest of the killer.
This next bit has nothing to do with the story, but it still annoys me since I found out. Dan Maples daughter Daisy Pearl abandoned her twin girls after a divorce with her husband. He was supposed to take their 3 boys and she was supposed to take their 2 girls, he kept his word and she said well fuck it.
Interesting. Thanks.
I enjoyed the two intros in this one LOL
John Eldridge was the first white property owner in now Hamilton County, TN, Chattanooga area. I have both his descendant, my great grandfather Arthur Columbus Davis, and his wife's native blood. The five civilized tribes..."...they called us civilized because we were easy to sneak up on..." "...one must be Indian to know these things..."
another excellent podcast....thanks
Any Indian Outlaw is Half Cherokee and Choctaw
My great great grandmother was Cherokee. She was a reservation bride. Wives were far and few between so quite a few younger brothers went into the territories and took Indian brides.
Perfect mix of shelby foote and jeff foxworthy- too cool and great podcast!!!
Love your videos bro ! I think we have the same take on history for sure.
Thanks Allan
Ned and his dad were Eskimo brothers. Thats just classy right there. LoL. There's gotta be a trailer park and baby daddy mixed in this for good measure.
Sometimes I feel like it's Danny McBride narrating some cool old wild west stories.
Good episode. Not much is told about the Oklahoma history. Have you done an " Apache Kid " episode ?
Another awesome story, and some shocking news. Thanks for it all
Glad you enjoyed it
I like Ned Christie. I think that often, unjust laws push people into a corner and they end up fighting with their backs up against a wall. Ordinary good people end up turning violent, as it becomes a fight for life. This is a very big injustice. PS. You mispronounced Talequah. Tal - LA - quah.
The posse for ned Christie had a picture of themselves taken just before the capture.. All the posse looked arrogant. That they were involved in history. One of the posse members was a young kid from 13 to 15.
Gawd dayumn I luv these
Someone likes timesuck. New subscriber I listened to all your videos tonight's 16 hour shift. Very enjoyable. Doesn't get boring at any point. Me being from same generation as you is a plus. Keep them coming.
Confused about the numbering. Bloody beaver and this one. Think third from bottom said it was video 16. You got patron but unfortunately they don't take Google money
Hail Nimrod and welcome. Yeah, ignore any numbering.
@@WildWestExtravaganza . I was wondering if you have done an episode on " The Apache Kid " ..
I too read the Time Life books as a kid. I thought I knew something about history of this event. Boy was I wrong, thank you very much for this podcast. Great Job
It is good to see journalistic integrity is a time-honored tradition.
Hey buddy, love the vids. Just a heads up tho. As a grandson of a Cherokee that was raised on the rez near Tahlequah Oklahoma, no biggie cause a lot of towns in Ok are weird, it’s pronounced Tal-e-kwah. Tal like the word tally, short E sound like the word end and quah like the word squaw.
There was a book a novel actually named Ned Christy's War I don't remember who wrote but for a novel it was pretty well based on history and fact.
Part Cherokee here, wolf clan of the eastern band. My family fought for the South. Both the Cherokee and Irish side
I too have the Time Life books, and I can find good copies at second hand shops.
I have that time life set of books
Good presentation
Wild west history is something I find fascinating, especially since moving to Colorado, but its so far removed from what I studied, the ancient near east, but its still the same, just different costumes and weapons.
My 3x Grandma Laura Young came through the Trail of Tears via South Carolina. She married my Madagascan 3x Grandpa Chsrlie , settling in McKinney.
They bulldozed his grave? How'd that even happen?
josh, you should do a video of that one old west gunfighter, think he's a colonel of something. sanders i think his name was
He sounds absolutely horrifying.
Sort of a "Cake or death" question isn't it?...@ roughly the 18 minute mark...😂
Killed it, glad you brought up John Paris, he's always been my pick for the murderer, making Ned innocent as hell. Just a guy that didn't give a damn about the white law.
Wade Christie was my 4th Great Grandfather.
Ned is my 1st cousin, 4 times removed!
Very cool
hey! could you make a podcast about felipe espinosa someday? there might not be much info about him but he's pretty insane
He's on the list!!!
@@WildWestExtravaganza i'm really thankful this channel exists 😢
This is a tragedy. He seems to be a good man who got a bad shake. If your supposition is true, it's a crime.
Thumbs up really good story.
Ned kept his word. He never gave himself up and went out boots on shooting on his terms. Well done Ned Christie.
Way to murder Tahlequah LMFAO. Texicans man.
25:44-25:51 WADO! Thank You for this statement.
Got that same Time Life book.
After Andrew Jackson ordered the Trail of Tears Indian removal Act I don't Blame any of them who choose the Gun ! I think adrenalin is addictive !
You should do a video on Mary Fields aka Stagecoach Mary.
I def will in the future. Check out the Black Cowboys podcast episode on her, pretty interesting.
Zeke and Ned by Larry McMurtry is a great read.Tells about Ned Christy.
Just a gut feeling, but an innocent man does not make himself scarce, a guilty man will. By what you have said, with no other proof, I'm leaning towards a hero
I have 5 vol. of Times/Life “The Old West”, leather bound; The Rivermen, The Cowboys, The Gunfighters, The Loggers and The Forty-Niners.
Good stuff!
Bro, you have to watch some episodes of Mr. Pickles. I feel like you could do a mean impression of the sheriff.
Just a thought that our good man Ned Christie didn't agknowledge the authority of the US government. Ned was a purest.
I'm a sheriff and I require all posse members be at least 6'5". Unfortunately I'm only 6'2" and live in Chinatown so we don't have the best success rate. The people must really love me though. I keep getting reelected. There's even groups of strong, civic minded, nice young men escorting and helping citizens cast their votes. Such good boys
I have two requests: Jerry Ambler and Bob Fudge pls.
Someone just discovered ian Tyson
Is it you?
Level action rifle? I think mean lever...
Yes sir. Sometimes I get excited and my words don't come out right.
Arch wolf was my great grandfather
Lol my goodness this was great
Glass is made super heated sand about 1700 degrees celcius
Bill Nye the science guy over here...haha, just kidding. Thanks, Danny.
@@WildWestExtravaganza that’s ok. I knew it was liquid sand, had to look up the temperature though. That’s why when you have a nuclear detonation in the desert they call it a glass parking lot. You wouldn’t want to spend too much time near it though
3000+ died my grandmother spoke Cherokee
Dig the Indian Outlaw holler out.
What, no mention of the Turkey call? Good show nevertheless.
@ 3:52min Glass is a byproduct of superheated silica particles. The art of glassmaking goes back thousands of years. As far as Ned Christie goes he was accused of several crimes which were alleged but never proven. He was a former member of the Cherokee Tribal Congress. During a week the Cherokee Congress was in session in May 1887 a Deputy US Marshal named Maples was ambushed and murdered outside of Tahlequah, Indian Territory. See referenced Wikipedia excerpt
below. On May 3, 1887, U.S. Deputy Marshal Daniel Maples led a posse into Indian Territory seeking sellers of illegal whiskey, which had been made a federal crime in that territory.[b] A principal suspect was Bud Trainer, who had a record for selling whiskey and was known for violence. After spending the day unsuccessfully seeking Trainer, Maples and posse member George Jefferson started back to their camp near Spring Branch Creek, outside Tahlequah. Maples was shot from ambush in the territory of the Cherokee Nation and died the next day of his wounds. The shooter had escaped.[1]
Ned Christie was falsely accused of the murder of Deputy Marshal Maples and was sought and several raids attempting
to either arrest or kill him by posses led by Deputy US Marshals
sent out by the US Court for the Western District of Arkansas administered by Judge Isaac Parker (known as the "hanging judge"). This series of raids was known as "Ned Christie's War."
He had written Judge Parked that he'd give himself up if the court would grant him bail to be allowed to go find evidence of
his innocence. (He was as the derisive saying goes "guilty until
proven innocent). They shot him after having set his cabin afire
once in 1889. Burning his cabin and blacksmith shop as well.
After he was nursed back to health he and his family built a fort
of a double walled cabin with sand packed in between the walls.
The next raid attempting to capture him in October of 1892. Six
Marshals sent by US Marshal Jacob Yoes. After a fire fight they withdrew with 2 men wounded. Yoes proposed a military-style raid on the fort. It was led by Deputy Gideon S. “Cap” White, a former captain in the U.S. Cavalry during the Civil War. Gus York, a civilian who was familiar with the territory, was hired to assist White, along with 14 other men. An army post in Kansas agreed to loan White a cannon for the expedition.

Photograph of US Deputy Marshals posing with the corpse of Ned Christie in November 1892. (1) Paden Tolbert (2) Capt. G.S. White (3) Coon Ratteree (4) Enoch Mills (5) deceased Ned Christie (6) Thomas Johnson (7) Charles Copeland (8) Heck Bruner
White's force surrounded the Christie fort on the morning of November 3, 1892. In addition to Christie, others at the fort included his wife Nancy, her son Albert, Ned's daughter, Mary; his granddaughter, Charlotte; nephew Little Arch Wolf, and Charles Hair, a 12-year-old Cherokee.[9][1] After the first exchange of rifle fire, the marshals allowed the women to leave, and held them elsewhere.[1]
The posse of lawmen killed Christie in their attack. The lawmen loaded a double charge of powder into the cannon for more power, but the next shot blew up the barrel. They pushed a wagon load of dynamite against one wall of the fort and detonated it. The explosion destroyed part of the fort and set the rest afire. Christie was fatally shot as he escaped the burning ruins.[1] Ned Christie had said he'd never be taken alive
and another interesting thing was he never spoke English again
after he'd been "framed" for the murder charge and how every lie he had ever had told about himself was in English.
Did you just copy and paste something from a website?
@@WildWestExtravaganza did you want to have a serious discussion of Ned Christie? Now if you reference
the source without pretending to present the content as some
of your own then you are good to go. I'm not a content creator on TH-cam. I never will be. The terms of use are so abused by
the content algorithms here that I made that choice years ago. I
mean no harm nor am I trying to "steal your thunder." To the best of my knowledge I've conducted myself in a upright manner attempting to add to the conversation. Nothing else could be further from my mind. If you think I didn't cite the source material sufficiently then I would beg to differ.
No offense meant. If you wanted to have a long form discussion you're probably better off emailing me...makes long blocks of texts easier to read.
@@WildWestExtravaganza No worries friend! That's just how I roll here. I do this everywhere. I have a Twitter account which most of the time when I visit I'm making some short comments and leaving a link. I am not a regular on any one channel I watch widely and have a broad palette of things which interest me. Indigenous people and how they have coped with interactions with the US government and it's citizens. I'm just like my Dad was I get bored easily. You're doing well and imho you don't need to
change a thing. Good touching base with you!
Thanks buddy
You got Tahlequah very wrong. Take it from a Cherokee living in Oklahoma about 20min away from Tahlequah. TAL-ə-kwah; think Oklahoma mid south mumble but native.
Noted
I guess I'm listening to his podcasts backwards. He addressed this in another episode and it was funny to hear it unexpectedly in this one 😂.
Thank you for distinguishing the differences between tribes! I’m part native (Taos Pueblo/Apache) and we all did not live like the cherokee! I always get suspicious when a white person says hey I’m Native too! And I say what tribe? 90% of the time they say cherokee🤣 lol
Haven't you heard? All white girls have at least one great grandmother who was a Cherokee "princess"!
@@WildWestExtravaganza yes 😂 I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that. Or they say they are cherokee and their family didn’t even come from the southeast haha
Oglala Lakota and proud of it ✌🏽
I always get skeptical of red people with European features that claim to be native too 🤣
Well... I'm white as fuhh... But my great great grandma was Modoc... Now why would anybody lie about that? It was like pulling teeth out of my grandmother to learn about it...
I don't know how historically accurate it is but, the book "Zeke and Ned" by Larry Mcmurtry is very good. There was a co=author and I'm disremember the name.
Dis hear be some good listenin
Thanks love listening keep up
Thanks for listening!
My aunt i love is back on tbe res. Love yo azz.
You did a good job but as a chrerokee citizen in Adair co. Oklahoma i have to say you pronunciation Tahlequah and Keetoowah were way off!! Other then that very good
Ahhh! My mush mouth has a hard time pronouncing words! Thank you for listening.