I saw Dokken at the end of 94, when they reunited and played/recorded One Night Live, at The Strand in Redondo Beach. A friend of mine worked for the company that filmed the show, and asked if I wanted to help them unload/set up the recording equipment in exchange for admission to see the show. About an hour after we finished, Dokken shows up, and I think it was their manager, came up to us and says “hey guys, Mick’s got a flat tire”. Insinuating which 1 or 2 of you guys is changing it. When he saw the look I gave him, he changed his tune to “would it be cool if someone could change his tire”. So 2 guys (not me) went out in the rain to change his tire. When they came back in, they said his car was the biggest piece of sh1t. Anyways, the show was good, Jeff and Mick each sang a song. Was really surprised by how good Mick’s voice was.
I met the band during the Dysfunctional tour and all of them were super nice. Especially Jeff. He talked the 80’s days stories for 30 minutes. We were just fans hanging out. Jeff’s has a great voice.
This is a great question that was never formally addressed. I vaguely recall an interview with Don for Rip magazine when he was promoting his solo album. He said Jeff went out to Phoenix to work on Lynch Mob and he couldn’t hack it. There was another reference in that interview that he didn’t fit in, or he didn’t like the material, or something. Again, that came from Don so you have to take it for what it is. Imo Don might’ve used his connections with Electra to sandbag the 3 of them working together. He probably watched how Vinny Vincent Imvasion imploded when the entire band left Vinnie to form Slaughter. They went on to some success but Vinnie became irrelevant. Just a theory, but I don’t think Don wanted to compete against his old bandmates and the narrative that he was impossible to work with because of his ego.
Jeff went on a quest to get sober, he had a mad coke and booze addiction in the Dokken days, that's generally what fuelled Dokkens demise, they all had drug and booze problems. Jeff had enough and has been sober since 1989. I strongly believe that's why he kept a low key with War and Peace.
Back when I saw Dokken @ Monsters Of Rock something went wrong with Don's mic. Jeff just took over singing the lead while the techs figured it out. Dude can sing!
Yeah "something went wrong with Don's mic" alright--what went wrong was Don! He's got a history of blaming the equipment when his voice won't hold up. Jeff is fully capable of stepping into the lead singer spotlight, and often did when Don couldn't hang.
I read an interview with George Lynch about finding a singer for Lynch Mob. They were looking for a rock star frontman who would drive the girls crazy. He even mentioned they found a few guys who sounded great but weren't handsome enough. I think you're right the record company didn't think Jeff had star power.
I do remember the rumor "back in the day" about Pilson, Lynch, & Brown potentially working as a three piece after Dokken's demise...Oni Logan was actually a pretty good fit as the lead singer/frontman (think Lynch scooped him up from Marc Ferrari's project). George seemed determined to go with the flow of the bluesy metal trend that I remember developing. He was behind Jake E Lee's Badlands by about a year I think.
Dokken was my favorite band and I too was sad when they broke up. Jeff Pilson a few years back was asked in an interview what was his favorite concert he performed in. He said Monsters of Rock in Los Angeles. I was there about 10 feet from the stage for the entire Monsters of Rock in L.A. -- it was so awesome! Anyways it blew my mind because I only saw Dokken live twice... Monsters of Rock L.A. and a few months (or was it a year I forget) earlier when they opened for Aerosmith. [I would of never got that close to the stage in L.A. at the Monsters of Rock, but when Metallica started playing all the chain link fences came down.. I remember all those fold up chairs going overhead -- was crazy.]
I met Jeff years ago when he was going to do war & peace. I met Chip Znuff he was great asked if I was playing with anyone I wasn’t at the time. This was in Buffalo. Chip took my number this is back before cell phones so I figured he would lose it. Months later chip calls me from Chicago tells me he gave my number to Jeff, he was putting together war & peace they had a bass player but he might leave if he left they would fly me out for an audition. Unfortunately the bass player stuck around. Jeff called me back. I was very grateful for the chance. Years later Dokken was playing a club here Jeff remembered who I was. He was great hung out with him & Mick Brown on the tour bus talking Beatles. Great guys.
Yeah great story! Kudos man--you just bea good bassist to be considered to play bass in Jeff Pilson's band! That's like Neal Schon playing guitar for Santana! Or Chester Thompson drumming for Phil Collins.
@@ericpeterson7512 Thanks I guess I'm pretty good. Also did 5 shows with local band Talas after Billy Sheehan left to do David Lee Roth & Mr. Big. Last band I was in was called DoDriver there's some stuff on TH-cam around 2010. We opened for Kiss Queensryche Jason Bonham etc.
Jeff did sing lead on the track "Here I Stand" from Dokken's Shadowlife album. And, he eventually did make his way to Lynch Mob, playing bass on the Rebel album.
As depressed as I was by the breakup of Dokken in the fall of '88 I loved Don's album Up from the Ashes and Lynch Mob. I saw Dokken on the Monsters tour at the L.A. Coliseum and a few times before that. Regarding Pilson not working with Don or George, I think he wanted to remain neutral so as to not burn bridges with either of them. I don't know if Jeff ever had any sort of beef with George or Don. I remember the feud between Don and George was so notorious that they even posed for the cover of magazines as though they were mortal enemies, and this was before the breakup in '88. I also think a part of the tension between Don and George was because you had two who paid their dues and had a sense of what they were entitled to, something neither could agree on. George wanted the golden ring of guitar heroism. He came from the same amazing scene that produced EVH, Rhoads, Demartini, and so many other great players. George was one of the big dudes on the scene. He also had a family to support. The reason he lost the gig with Ozzy was because he had to keep his hair short for his job delivering liquor around L.A. The company he worked for would not allow him to grow his hair. One major point of tension between George and Don came down to the name of the band: Dokken. That sounds more like it's Don's machine than a real band. But I'm sure Van Halen sounded that way too to Roth who was, after all, the front man. I wasn't surprised at all when Dave was fired from VH. He was sort of asking for it. In hindsight, I don't know how good one more classic era Dokken album would have been had they stuck it out instead of splitting and going solo. It might have been a watered down paste up job to fulfill a contract. Also, same goes for classic Roth era VH. Had they done one more album after 1984, I don't think it would have been held in such high regard. 1984 is a good album, but extremely overrated. Yes, it sold 10 million copies, literally going Diamond in the U.S. But it's not heir greatest album. It was sort of a recovery from the very weak but still very popular Diver Down, which I consider the weakest album of the classic era. The best albums of that era are the first four. As for Dokken, Breaking the Chains is a very solid album, but pales in comparison to Tooth and Nail, which is their heaviest album. I like Under Lock & Key, mainly for George's playing, but feel the material is just too sappy at times. Back for the Attack is a great album, and George's tone is amazing. He's got this boosted crunch fuzz that's very hard to dial in. But that album is full of great playing, great tone, stronger songwriting than ULAK.
Yeah, Up From The Ashes is great. The guitar work is stellar. And I still have the Hit Parader with George and Don on the cover, back to back with toy pistols.
@@thebaldshredder That's one of the covers I remember. Also one with Freddy Krueger holding them apart like a referee, from the Dream Warriors era. Man, I loved that film and hearing that song as the end credits rolled. Loved the video too. I had that EP that also had the song Back for the Attack which was left off that album. Up From the Ashes has amazing guitar work from John Norum. As you know, besides also being the original axeman for Europe, before Kee Marcello, Norum also had a very strong solo career in Europe. Superb player.
In a way the Dokken break up was a blessing in disguise, we got Wicked Sensation and Up From The Ashes, BOTH killer albums. A few years later we got Dysfunction which is another killer album. Too bad Shadowlife sucks ass!
I'm going with Jeff wanted to be a lead singer. In a George interview he was asked the question and he answered, "Junior-Dokkenitis. Jeff wanted to do his own thing and have his own band."
Another great video, if your opinion. Was Lynch Mob better than Dokken? Years ago my dad told me he liked them better and Dokken was always #3 for me(Crue#2 VH#1) so I was like no way. I'm class of 91 so we are close in age. So now when I listen and play the songs on guitar, I kinda agree with him. I think Lynch Mob songs were better. I still love Dokken of course and seen them 2 summers ago. Keep rockin dude!
@@thebaldshredder yes your right sorry that was 30 years ago he mention a band Jeff was playing with - Jeff has been with Foreigner seems forever my mistake ??
you mention you wanted to play for Don but at the time he had the guitarist from the band Europe and his second guitar player was a "nobody " - Don was at Bobby house the drummer of rat and they were listening to some demo-tapes and Don liked one of the guitar players he heard and hired him ..
If it WAS a case where Jeff had been writing songs with them and then was dispatched, I'd say it's probably because Jeff sang a lot like Don, and maybe George or the record company didn't want George's new band to sound like Dokken. What you mention about George writing Dokken style stuff before Oni came into the picture makes sense with this as well. I remember reading something from George saying almost that exact thing. He said after leaving Dokken, he started writing a bunch of stuff in the style of Dokken, but then with the new band members, it all went in a different direction. By the way, I'm with you on BFTA being the best Dokken album. Agreed on that and Wicked Sensation being the best Lynch albums as well.
Tell the truth I only know one Dokken song. That was from a Freddy Krueger movie back in the 80s called Dream Warriors. That's the only song I've ever heard of you. I had no idea that was such a big fan I guess I just never checked into it. And I hear George Lynch is an amazing guitar player but once again I just guess I just never looked into it. Let me know about some of their songs and I'll look like. In a way it's kind of cool because if it's really good music and it's from the '80s and I've never heard of before and 90s. I get to discover something for my '80s and 90s listen to new cool music from there again
Oh my goodness! You don't know Dokken or George Lynch? You're really missing out. Here are a few songs to start with: Into The Fire, In My Dreams, Kiss of Death. After that, listen to the entire albums: Tooth & Nail, Under Lock & Key, Back For The Attack. You can thank me later.
I saw War and Peace at the Omni , awesome band, Always thought Jeff was the best vocalist in the Dokken, and really Don may have been the third best vocalist....
Lynch Pilson, off of the "Wicked Underground" album, this is "Breath and a Scream". This song kicks ass. th-cam.com/video/r1D1C5JoQSo/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Drifter
from what i remember from Hit Paraders/ Guitar for the Practicing musician...george assumed that Jeff was going to remain the bass player and went off in search of a singer...found Oni and tried to woo him from "ferrari"(with the line do you want to be in a band called ferrari or drive one" ... after securing Oni, called Jeff about the bass position and jeff hung up on him
Yeah that Oni/Ferrari story is well known. I've heard variations of the calling Jeff or not calling Jeff stories over the years. I don't know if any of them are the full truth.
@@thebaldshredder I saw Lynch Mob at Sundance on Long Island on the Wicked Sensation tour (also saw Alice In Chains open up for Extreme there). at the end of the show, George, Oni and Anthony all did stage dives and were caught by the crowd. then Mick ran from behind the drum set and tried but because he was much bigger the crowd parted like the Red Sea and he landed on the floor like Jon Favreau in 'PCU'. I grabbed the drumsticks out of his back pocket as we were helping him up LOL. Sorry Mick.
If the classic line up we're to reunite Jeff would be perfect on vocals, and Don could play bass. Don couldn't stand playing with George cause of his consistent whining and crying, trying to get everything his way!
Jeff always struck me as the guy who tried to keep the peace and make things go smooth. On the behind the scenes of Return to the East, he seems like the one really trying to bring everything together. If I had to guess, I'd say he did it not to choose sides. Plus, maybe he really did just want to branch out on his own.
From what I remember, I actually saw an interview right after the Dokken breakup that included George Lynch. He said that he was looking for a frontman for Lynch Mob. He didn't say this but he kind of implied that Jeff was a musician first and he wanted a guy that could control a crowd and command the stage. George implied that he preferred a 4 piece, which would mean Jeff wouldn't play an instrument. I don't think George thought that Jeff was that guy. Jeff is a musician and that was probably a deal breaker for him. Plus George said something about the band name. I assumed that meant that Jeff didn't want to play under a George Lynch band??? Ultimately, I think it was just a difference of opinion on what they were both looking for. I don't think it was a falling out just a parting due to difference.
Yep. Jeff is one of the best all-around musicians in all of melodic metal. He's the glue that has held together many a band. Anyone who pays the tiniest bit of attention agrees the dude is an absolute monster. But he's too humble to be the front man for the magnitude of band all these guys wanted when they were younger. Everyone wanted to be as big as Van Halen back then. Swaggering front men had always dominated. From Robert Plant to David Coverdale, that's the kind of dude that was highly sought after in those days.
You know I heard don say in an interview that he told the record company he couldn't do another record with George or work with George anymore but he told Jeff and Mick that they could get a different guitar player and keep going as dokken but they sided with George
@@thebaldshredder Exactly and Jeff is a good singer Ive heard him sing as a lead singer and obviously on backing vocals in dokken. I almost think it had to be the record company saying no because I dont know of any big issues they had between them.
I actually prefer Lynch Mob better than Dokken I even think all the Lynch Mob versions of Dokken songs are alot better too. I wish Mason started off as the original singer Mason is such a beast
Oni Login joined Marc Ferrari’s solo band (Ferrari) then George confronted Oni and ask him, “ Do you wanna be in a Ferrari or own a Ferrari.” Marc was furious at George. I read Marc Ferrari’s book Rock Star 101 when it came out.
Wow. That brings back memories. I remember seeing War & Peace at the Troubadour in maybe 1991. Ricky Parent (went on to play with Enuff Znuff… RIP) on drums, Tommy Henricksen (went on to play w/ Alice Cooper) on bass, Russ Parish (currently Satchel from Steel Panther) on guitar and Jeff on vocals and rhythm guitar. Good band but timing wasn’t right. Got snuffed out by the great grunge apocalypse. The players on the War & Peace recordings were all stars like Reb Beach & Richie Kotzen. I never heard why Jeff didn’t sing for George. Can only speculate. I do know 2 people who have worked for Don & apparently working for him is not a pleasant experience.
I had heard a rumor that Mick was sleeping with Jeff’s ex wife, there was some kind of tryst that was resolved later on after a few years between them.
The songs and music would've been different. George even said that after they got Oni, they scrapped all the songs they had and started over because of the new vibe with Oni.
George has always been known to change on a dime. I think that last part was probably true. I don't see Jeff as that selfish. He relegated himself to merely a bass player with his session work with Dio and MSG. Heck, he's basically been just the bass player for Foreigner, with backup singer responsibility.
I was at the DOKKEN/LYNCH MOB show in Biloxi at the Hard Rock... oh my God Dokken was okay DONs voice is sub-par, but musically on point.... LYNCH MOB on the other hand my GOD Oni and crew took my ass to church that night they fkn rocked the fk out of that joint.
Jeff is a great singer but his style wouldnt fiy I don't think . Too much rasp . At least that's my take from what I heard from the dokken/Pilsen vocal demos .
I cant talk enough about Dokken & Lynch who's the reason I'm a Guitarist now ! Dokken and Ratt are the two best Glam Metal bands of the 80's . I could add Crue but didnt like anything after Shout at the Devil until Dr. Feelgood came out and it was a good record but nothing compared to Shout ?? If you have a problem with my critique of Crue save it . Its just my opinion .
I actually think End Machine does sound like Wicked Underground. You can really hear Jeff's songwriting and bass influence on both groups and in Dokken when I went back to listen.
I'm glad it turned out the way it did as Wicked Sensation is one of my favorite albums of all time and the only thing in my opinion on par with the Dokken albums before the first break-up that George or Don has done since. the second Lynch Mob album and the Japanese version of Dysfunctional (before they re-mixed and ruined half the songs for the U.S. version) come close and I'm not a fan of anything Don has done without George.... Pilson and George and Mick worked together on T&N and The End Machine which are both great sounding albums but got ZERO airplay or attention and are just another in a long line of seemingly endless one off side projects like KXM, Sweet & Lynch, etc. for George. I'm happy for Jeff with his gig in Foreigner which in his own admission "pays the bills".
@@thebaldshredder I think if Pilson, Brown and George had been a 3 man band they would have imploded when grunge hit and then there may never have been a Dokken reunion.
I love Jeff but he doesn't have the look of a rock frontman, and he just isn't a lead singer. He can sing, but he doesn't have enough bass in his voice and he sounds forced in higher registers.
George was putting Lynch Mob together in 1989 after Dokken broke up. Jeff joined Foreigner in 2004, many years later. So it has nothing to do with his Foreigner gig.
Look, your credentials as a metal fan are gauged by the length of your hair. You've gotta have LONG hair to be a metal guy! Wait, let me take a quick look in the mirror..... Uhm, I just remembered that hair length is 100% irrelevant when it comes to gauging metal credentials. 😉👍 Seriously though, just because they had most of the same guys from Dokken, doesn't mean they are doomed to sounding like Dokken. Besides, didn't Don write most of Dokken's stuff anyway, and he wasn't in Lynch Mob last I checked. Also, Pilson is a great singer, so......
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I saw Dokken at the end of 94, when they reunited and played/recorded One Night Live, at The Strand in Redondo Beach. A friend of mine worked for the company that filmed the show, and asked if I wanted to help them unload/set up the recording equipment in exchange for admission to see the show. About an hour after we finished, Dokken shows up, and I think it was their manager, came up to us and says “hey guys, Mick’s got a flat tire”. Insinuating which 1 or 2 of you guys is changing it. When he saw the look I gave him, he changed his tune to “would it be cool if someone could change his tire”. So 2 guys (not me) went out in the rain to change his tire. When they came back in, they said his car was the biggest piece of sh1t. Anyways, the show was good, Jeff and Mick each sang a song. Was really surprised by how good Mick’s voice was.
I met the band during the Dysfunctional tour and all of them were super nice. Especially Jeff. He talked the 80’s days stories for 30 minutes. We were just fans hanging out. Jeff’s has a great voice.
Jeff is a great guy and a great singer.
Dio & Dokken in Dallas in 1984. Still one of my favorite concerts to this day.
I wish I could've seen that tour!
I was there. Great show.
Saw that show in Atlanta!
Hard to top that in my space, great to hear!
Jeff played bass on Lynch Mob's 2015 album "Rebel"
The only CD I ever returned was Pilson and Lynches first cd. It was like nails on a chalkboard. He’s a good back up singer that’s it
I always wondered that also.
This is a great question that was never formally addressed. I vaguely recall an interview with Don for Rip magazine when he was promoting his solo album. He said Jeff went out to Phoenix to work on Lynch Mob and he couldn’t hack it. There was another reference in that interview that he didn’t fit in, or he didn’t like the material, or something. Again, that came from Don so you have to take it for what it is.
Imo Don might’ve used his connections with Electra to sandbag the 3 of them working together. He probably watched how Vinny Vincent Imvasion imploded when the entire band left Vinnie to form Slaughter. They went on to some success but Vinnie became irrelevant. Just a theory, but I don’t think Don wanted to compete against his old bandmates and the narrative that he was impossible to work with because of his ego.
Back in 1990 George said Jeff got "Lead Singer's Disease". Rip magazine
There was one album,
Lynch Pilson
Which was pretty good
Yep. I like it. They also did the T&N album plus The End Machine among other things.
2 albums now of Wilson and lynch
Don't forget Heavy Hitters, Lynch and Pilson's album of covers! It's amazing!
Jeff went on a quest to get sober, he had a mad coke and booze addiction in the Dokken days, that's generally what fuelled Dokkens demise, they all had drug and booze problems. Jeff had enough and has been sober since 1989.
I strongly believe that's why he kept a low key with War and Peace.
Back when I saw Dokken @ Monsters Of Rock something went wrong with Don's mic. Jeff just took over singing the lead while the techs figured it out. Dude can sing!
When I saw them on the Dysfunctional tour, for "Just Got Luck" Jeff sang lead and Don played bass. It was really cool.
Yeah "something went wrong with Don's mic" alright--what went wrong was Don! He's got a history of blaming the equipment when his voice won't hold up. Jeff is fully capable of stepping into the lead singer spotlight, and often did when Don couldn't hang.
@@ericpeterson7512 yeah, this was like 88 or so, MOR.
They did record together if I remember Jeff was on Rebal Lynch mob , and T&N maybe Jeff wanted to do a different
This is a little off that topic but I think I like the 2nd lynch mob album as much as the first one the are different but they both rock
I read an interview with George Lynch about finding a singer for Lynch Mob. They were looking for a rock star frontman who would drive the girls crazy. He even mentioned they found a few guys who sounded great but weren't handsome enough. I think you're right the record company didn't think Jeff had star power.
That's my best guess but who knows.
I do remember the rumor "back in the day" about Pilson, Lynch, & Brown potentially working as a three piece after Dokken's demise...Oni Logan was actually a pretty good fit as the lead singer/frontman (think Lynch scooped him up from Marc Ferrari's project). George seemed determined to go with the flow of the bluesy metal trend that I remember developing. He was behind Jake E Lee's Badlands by about a year I think.
Dokken was my favorite band and I too was sad when they broke up. Jeff Pilson a few years back was asked in an interview what was his favorite concert he performed in. He said Monsters of Rock in Los Angeles. I was there about 10 feet from the stage for the entire Monsters of Rock in L.A. -- it was so awesome! Anyways it blew my mind because I only saw Dokken live twice... Monsters of Rock L.A. and a few months (or was it a year I forget) earlier when they opened for Aerosmith. [I would of never got that close to the stage in L.A. at the Monsters of Rock, but when Metallica started playing all the chain link fences came down.. I remember all those fold up chairs going overhead -- was crazy.]
I met Jeff years ago when he was going to do war & peace. I met Chip Znuff he was great asked if I was playing with anyone I wasn’t at the time. This was in Buffalo. Chip took my number this is back before cell phones so I figured he would lose it. Months later chip calls me from Chicago tells me he gave my number to Jeff, he was putting together war & peace they had a bass player but he might leave if he left they would fly me out for an audition. Unfortunately the bass player stuck around. Jeff called me back. I was very grateful for the chance. Years later Dokken was playing a club here Jeff remembered who I was. He was great hung out with him & Mick Brown on the tour bus talking Beatles. Great guys.
Awesome story! Jeff is a class act.
Yeah great story! Kudos man--you just bea good bassist to be considered to play bass in Jeff Pilson's band! That's like Neal Schon playing guitar for Santana! Or Chester Thompson drumming for Phil Collins.
@@ericpeterson7512 Thanks I guess I'm pretty good. Also did 5 shows with local band Talas after Billy Sheehan left to do David Lee Roth & Mr. Big. Last band I was in was called DoDriver there's some stuff on TH-cam around 2010. We opened for Kiss Queensryche Jason Bonham etc.
Jeff did sing lead on the track "Here I Stand" from Dokken's Shadowlife album. And, he eventually did make his way to Lynch Mob, playing bass on the Rebel album.
Whatever it was in the stars the Wicked Sensation album broke wide! tone raven-guitar(Hollywood Ca)
As depressed as I was by the breakup of Dokken in the fall of '88 I loved Don's album Up from the Ashes and Lynch Mob. I saw Dokken on the Monsters tour at the L.A. Coliseum and a few times before that. Regarding Pilson not working with Don or George, I think he wanted to remain neutral so as to not burn bridges with either of them. I don't know if Jeff ever had any sort of beef with George or Don. I remember the feud between Don and George was so notorious that they even posed for the cover of magazines as though they were mortal enemies, and this was before the breakup in '88. I also think a part of the tension between Don and George was because you had two who paid their dues and had a sense of what they were entitled to, something neither could agree on. George wanted the golden ring of guitar heroism. He came from the same amazing scene that produced EVH, Rhoads, Demartini, and so many other great players. George was one of the big dudes on the scene. He also had a family to support. The reason he lost the gig with Ozzy was because he had to keep his hair short for his job delivering liquor around L.A. The company he worked for would not allow him to grow his hair. One major point of tension between George and Don came down to the name of the band: Dokken. That sounds more like it's Don's machine than a real band. But I'm sure Van Halen sounded that way too to Roth who was, after all, the front man. I wasn't surprised at all when Dave was fired from VH. He was sort of asking for it. In hindsight, I don't know how good one more classic era Dokken album would have been had they stuck it out instead of splitting and going solo. It might have been a watered down paste up job to fulfill a contract. Also, same goes for classic Roth era VH. Had they done one more album after 1984, I don't think it would have been held in such high regard. 1984 is a good album, but extremely overrated. Yes, it sold 10 million copies, literally going Diamond in the U.S. But it's not heir greatest album. It was sort of a recovery from the very weak but still very popular Diver Down, which I consider the weakest album of the classic era. The best albums of that era are the first four. As for Dokken, Breaking the Chains is a very solid album, but pales in comparison to Tooth and Nail, which is their heaviest album. I like Under Lock & Key, mainly for George's playing, but feel the material is just too sappy at times. Back for the Attack is a great album, and George's tone is amazing. He's got this boosted crunch fuzz that's very hard to dial in. But that album is full of great playing, great tone, stronger songwriting than ULAK.
Yeah, Up From The Ashes is great. The guitar work is stellar. And I still have the Hit Parader with George and Don on the cover, back to back with toy pistols.
@@thebaldshredder That's one of the covers I remember. Also one with Freddy Krueger holding them apart like a referee, from the Dream Warriors era. Man, I loved that film and hearing that song as the end credits rolled. Loved the video too. I had that EP that also had the song Back for the Attack which was left off that album. Up From the Ashes has amazing guitar work from John Norum. As you know, besides also being the original axeman for Europe, before Kee Marcello, Norum also had a very strong solo career in Europe. Superb player.
I saw Europe with Kee on guitar, opening for Def Leppard on the Hysteria tour. That was a killer show.
it was roth's idea to name it van halen
In a way the Dokken break up was a blessing in disguise, we got Wicked Sensation and Up From The Ashes, BOTH killer albums. A few years later we got Dysfunction which is another killer album. Too bad Shadowlife sucks ass!
Excellent question shredder! That would have been kick ass!
I'm going with Jeff wanted to be a lead singer. In a George interview he was asked the question and he answered, "Junior-Dokkenitis. Jeff wanted to do his own thing and have his own band."
Another great video, if your opinion. Was Lynch Mob better than Dokken? Years ago my dad told me he liked them better and Dokken was always #3 for me(Crue#2 VH#1) so I was like no way. I'm class of 91 so we are close in age. So now when I listen and play the songs on guitar, I kinda agree with him. I think Lynch Mob songs were better. I still love Dokken of course and seen them 2 summers ago. Keep rockin dude!
That first Lynch Mob album is a classic for sure, but none of it comes close to the Dokken stuff in my opinion. Thanks.
was offered job with Foreigner.. ?? was talking with Don and he had Jeff with him I think 1992 he mentioned Jeff playing with Foreigner ???
Jeff didn't join Foreigner until years later in 2004
@@thebaldshredder yes your right sorry that was 30 years ago he mention a band Jeff was playing with - Jeff has been with Foreigner seems forever my mistake ??
you mention you wanted to play for Don but at the time he had the guitarist from the band Europe and his second guitar player was a "nobody " - Don was at Bobby house the drummer of rat and they were listening to some demo-tapes and Don liked one of the guitar players he heard and hired him ..
If it WAS a case where Jeff had been writing songs with them and then was dispatched, I'd say it's probably because Jeff sang a lot like Don, and maybe George or the record company didn't want George's new band to sound like Dokken.
What you mention about George writing Dokken style stuff before Oni came into the picture makes sense with this as well. I remember reading something from George saying almost that exact thing. He said after leaving Dokken, he started writing a bunch of stuff in the style of Dokken, but then with the new band members, it all went in a different direction.
By the way, I'm with you on BFTA being the best Dokken album. Agreed on that and Wicked Sensation being the best Lynch albums as well.
Tell the truth I only know one Dokken song. That was from a Freddy Krueger movie back in the 80s called Dream Warriors. That's the only song I've ever heard of you. I had no idea that was such a big fan I guess I just never checked into it. And I hear George Lynch is an amazing guitar player but once again I just guess I just never looked into it. Let me know about some of their songs and I'll look like. In a way it's kind of cool because if it's really good music and it's from the '80s and I've never heard of before and 90s. I get to discover something for my '80s and 90s listen to new cool music from there again
Oh my goodness! You don't know Dokken or George Lynch? You're really missing out. Here are a few songs to start with: Into The Fire, In My Dreams, Kiss of Death. After that, listen to the entire albums: Tooth & Nail, Under Lock & Key, Back For The Attack. You can thank me later.
Oni did a great job on Wicked Sensation. Jeff's a great singer and live performer. Foreigner has been a consistent gig for JP.
I saw War and Peace at the Omni , awesome band, Always thought Jeff was the best vocalist in the Dokken, and really Don may have been the third best vocalist....
Jeff Pilson was fronting War & Peace with Russ Parrish aka Satchel from Steel Panther.
Yep, I saw them play several times around L.A. I talked about it in the video.
Lynch Pilson, off of the "Wicked Underground" album, this is "Breath and a Scream". This song kicks ass.
th-cam.com/video/r1D1C5JoQSo/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Drifter
Lots of good songs on that album.
from what i remember from Hit Paraders/ Guitar for the Practicing musician...george assumed that Jeff was going to remain the bass player and went off in search of a singer...found Oni and tried to woo him from "ferrari"(with the line do you want to be in a band called ferrari or drive one" ... after securing Oni, called Jeff about the bass position and jeff hung up on him
Yeah that Oni/Ferrari story is well known. I've heard variations of the calling Jeff or not calling Jeff stories over the years. I don't know if any of them are the full truth.
Jeff is a good singer no doubt however, nobody wanted to see him lead Dokken. Don was a one of a kind back in 1988.
Of course. I hate that they broke up. I wanted that next studio album after Back For The Attack.
I saw the Cinderella 'Heartbreak Station' tour it had Nelson, and Lynch Mob .. All Three bands were Awesome sounding ! George was a SHREDIN !!
I missed that tour, but I did see Lynch Mob at the Whiskey right when Wicked Sensation came out.
You guys SUCK! 🤣! I was like 13… I would have loved to see BOTH those! But years later I did live next to the whiskey on Sunset
@@thebaldshredder The Whiskey ! that had to be Awesome Man !
@@thebaldshredder I saw Lynch Mob at Sundance on Long Island on the Wicked Sensation tour (also saw Alice In Chains open up for Extreme there). at the end of the show, George, Oni and Anthony all did stage dives and were caught by the crowd. then Mick ran from behind the drum set and tried but because he was much bigger the crowd parted like the Red Sea and he landed on the floor like Jon Favreau in 'PCU'. I grabbed the drumsticks out of his back pocket as we were helping him up LOL. Sorry Mick.
@@billymuellerTikTok 🤣
Regardless of what happened.. "Wicked Sensation" is an Awesome record!!! My drum teacher introduced me to them back in the 90s
Indeed it is!
If the classic line up we're to reunite Jeff would be perfect on vocals, and Don could play bass. Don couldn't stand playing with George cause of his consistent whining and crying, trying to get everything his way!
Jeff always struck me as the guy who tried to keep the peace and make things go smooth. On the behind the scenes of Return to the East, he seems like the one really trying to bring everything together. If I had to guess, I'd say he did it not to choose sides. Plus, maybe he really did just want to branch out on his own.
He's always the guy who keeps things together. Good head on his shoulders.
Lukewarm Water (Spinal Tap reference)
Jeff = MVP. Always.
What's wrong with sounding like Dokken???
In my book? Nothing! But maybe the record company had other ideas. Who knows.
From what I remember, I actually saw an interview right after the Dokken breakup that included George Lynch. He said that he was looking for a frontman for Lynch Mob. He didn't say this but he kind of implied that Jeff was a musician first and he wanted a guy that could control a crowd and command the stage. George implied that he preferred a 4 piece, which would mean Jeff wouldn't play an instrument. I don't think George thought that Jeff was that guy. Jeff is a musician and that was probably a deal breaker for him. Plus George said something about the band name. I assumed that meant that Jeff didn't want to play under a George Lynch band??? Ultimately, I think it was just a difference of opinion on what they were both looking for. I don't think it was a falling out just a parting due to difference.
That definitely sounds believable.
Yep. Jeff is one of the best all-around musicians in all of melodic metal. He's the glue that has held together many a band. Anyone who pays the tiniest bit of attention agrees the dude is an absolute monster. But he's too humble to be the front man for the magnitude of band all these guys wanted when they were younger. Everyone wanted to be as big as Van Halen back then. Swaggering front men had always dominated. From Robert Plant to David Coverdale, that's the kind of dude that was highly sought after in those days.
You know I heard don say in an interview that he told the record company he couldn't do another record with George or work with George anymore but he told Jeff and Mick that they could get a different guitar player and keep going as dokken but they sided with George
Yep, and they both said "We're going with George" which makes all the more curious why he wasn't in Lynch Mob.
@@thebaldshredder Exactly and Jeff is a good singer Ive heard him sing as a lead singer and obviously on backing vocals in dokken. I almost think it had to be the record company saying no because I dont know of any big issues they had between them.
I actually prefer Lynch Mob better than Dokken I even think all the Lynch Mob versions of Dokken songs are alot better too. I wish Mason started off as the original singer Mason is such a beast
I agree on Mason. I always liked his voice better. But I like Dokken more for sure.
Jeff would have been awesome in Lynch Mob, even just playing bass and doing backup vocals
Yes he would have!
Jeff was in Dio for Strange Highway.
"Bring Down the Rain" , he had writing credit, definitely has a Dokken vibe, but with Dio on vocals .
Oni Login joined Marc Ferrari’s solo band (Ferrari) then George confronted Oni and ask him, “ Do you wanna be in a Ferrari or own a Ferrari.” Marc was furious at George. I read Marc Ferrari’s book Rock Star 101 when it came out.
Yes this story has been well known for many years. I actually heard it straight from Marc's mouth way back in the day.
Wow. That brings back memories. I remember seeing War & Peace at the Troubadour in maybe 1991. Ricky Parent (went on to play with Enuff Znuff… RIP) on drums, Tommy Henricksen (went on to play w/ Alice Cooper) on bass, Russ Parish (currently Satchel from Steel Panther) on guitar and Jeff on vocals and rhythm guitar. Good band but timing wasn’t right. Got snuffed out by the great grunge apocalypse. The players on the War & Peace recordings were all stars like Reb Beach & Richie Kotzen. I never heard why Jeff didn’t sing for George. Can only speculate. I do know 2 people who have worked for Don & apparently working for him is not a pleasant experience.
I saw some of those War & Peace shows. It was awesome.
Another great vid….although I have no idea why he wasn’t!!! 😂 All the best…J
Thanks!
I had heard a rumor that Mick was sleeping with Jeff’s ex wife, there was some kind of tryst that was resolved later on after a few years between them.
Yeah I know that story too. Not sure on the time line of that. I'm thinking that was after the formation of Lynch Mob.
Jeff is a good singer but I cant hear him singing Wicked Sensation with the growl of Oni Logan ??
The songs and music would've been different. George even said that after they got Oni, they scrapped all the songs they had and started over because of the new vibe with Oni.
George has always been known to change on a dime. I think that last part was probably true. I don't see Jeff as that selfish. He relegated himself to merely a bass player with his session work with Dio and MSG. Heck, he's basically been just the bass player for Foreigner, with backup singer responsibility.
Oni Logan. The only GREAT vocalist Lynch Mob had. The others were Doogie White quality.
Maybe George had Oni on his radar early on?
Jeff was already off doing his own thing while George was still looking for a singer, before he found Oni.
I was at the DOKKEN/LYNCH MOB show in Biloxi at the Hard Rock... oh my God Dokken was okay DONs voice is sub-par, but musically on point.... LYNCH MOB on the other hand my GOD Oni and crew took my ass to church that night they fkn rocked the fk out of that joint.
Jeff can sing well, yes.....but he's not front man material. He's no Oni Logan.
Richard- when did u live in LA? I was there from 2001-2013
I moved to Southern Cal in 1989.
@@thebaldshredder you still out there? I miss OLD LA!
@@jayteesgear I'm waaaay outside LA area now.
Jeff is a great singer but his style wouldnt fiy I don't think . Too much rasp . At least that's my take from what I heard from the dokken/Pilsen vocal demos .
I cant talk enough about Dokken & Lynch who's the reason I'm a Guitarist now ! Dokken and Ratt are the two best Glam Metal bands of the 80's . I could add Crue but didnt like anything after Shout at the Devil until Dr. Feelgood came out and it was a good record but nothing compared to Shout ?? If you have a problem with my critique of Crue save it . Its just my opinion .
thought he went on to join Dio? then there was a Lynch pilson album wicked underground.
Jeff first played with Dio in '94 I believe. Lynch Mob was formed in '89. Their Wicked Underground album came out in 2003.
George either needs to quit or try doing some rap songs, unfortunately.
Because a standalone vocalist puts on a better stage show.
Lynch Pilson Underground was great album with Jeff doing lead vocals. Completely different vibe than The End Machine which did have 3/4 of Dokken.
I actually think End Machine does sound like Wicked Underground. You can really hear Jeff's songwriting and bass influence on both groups and in Dokken when I went back to listen.
Drugs
I'm glad it turned out the way it did as Wicked Sensation is one of my favorite albums of all time and the only thing in my opinion on par with the Dokken albums before the first break-up that George or Don has done since. the second Lynch Mob album and the Japanese version of Dysfunctional (before they re-mixed and ruined half the songs for the U.S. version) come close and I'm not a fan of anything Don has done without George.... Pilson and George and Mick worked together on T&N and The End Machine which are both great sounding albums but got ZERO airplay or attention and are just another in a long line of seemingly endless one off side projects like KXM, Sweet & Lynch, etc. for George. I'm happy for Jeff with his gig in Foreigner which in his own admission "pays the bills".
Wicked is great, no doubt. But I can't help but wonder "what if?"
I still put it on, blow it out singing loud driving down the street.
@@thebaldshredder I think if Pilson, Brown and George had been a 3 man band they would have imploded when grunge hit and then there may never have been a Dokken reunion.
Jeff Pilson was way too smart for that.
I love Jeff but he doesn't have the look of a rock frontman, and he just isn't a lead singer. He can sing, but he doesn't have enough bass in his voice and he sounds forced in higher registers.
That's why I'm thinking the record label or management told George that Jeff shouldn't be the lead singer.
He got offered a Huge Purse to play with Foreigner...
George was putting Lynch Mob together in 1989 after Dokken broke up. Jeff joined Foreigner in 2004, many years later. So it has nothing to do with his Foreigner gig.
Because he wasn’t… who cares!
Well, mystery solved! 😅
He's probably on tour with Foreigner cover band it's not the real Foreigner
He wasn't in Foreigner in 1989.
@@thebaldshredder ok thought we were talking about current band
I'm talking about why Jeff wasn't in the very first version of Lynch Mob in 1989/1990.
Look, your credentials as a metal fan are gauged by the length of your hair. You've gotta have LONG hair to be a metal guy! Wait, let me take a quick look in the mirror..... Uhm, I just remembered that hair length is 100% irrelevant when it comes to gauging metal credentials. 😉👍
Seriously though, just because they had most of the same guys from Dokken, doesn't mean they are doomed to sounding like Dokken. Besides, didn't Don write most of Dokken's stuff anyway, and he wasn't in Lynch Mob last I checked. Also, Pilson is a great singer, so......
Well I USED to have long hair until it all fell out! 😃🤘
@@thebaldshredder
Yeah, judging by the increased volume of hair strands routinely found on my shower floor, I'm on my way there too...
I’m happy to help you set up an interview with Jeff! Message me…
who’s lynch mob? He cancelled his own name.
He just changed the name because he was getting static over the name just changed it a couple months ago