Itachi is a utilitarian and consequentialist. His goal is to minimize harm as best as possible, and that he'll weight the morality of an action based off of the predictable consequences of his actions and who it'll affect
Itachi had a really toxic love/relationship with Sasuke. Itachi did emotionally, and physically, abuse Sasuke. He also neglected him, we know that will fuck a child up. Seeing sasuke’s downward spiral was horrifying, and anxiety inducing. Even though itachi’s actions were horrific, the hokage all say Itachi was a hero, and made the right choice. It makes you ponder over how dangerous nationalism can be.
@@allipse8224thank you I appreciate it. I had to rewatch his and sasuke’s scenes in dub and sub to get to this conclusion. It just freaks me out how no one sees the nationalism in the story. If bad acts are done for people’s own gain, it’s bad. But if you turn yourself into a monster for the village…it can be forgiven, and your honor will be restored. I see a lot of kids coming away from Naruto thinking Itachi was always good. Hopefully as they get older they’ll see why that’s not the case. I don’t see people talk about this enough
The thing about itachi wanting Sasuke to kill him is that it wasn't just about itachi wanting to die at the hand of another Uchiha. He believed that having Sasuke kill him would make Sasuke a hero of the village who would become famous and beloved for defeating one of the worst criminals in the history of konoha. He wanted to ensure that Sasuke would be loved by people even after itachis death.
Telling Sasuke to hate ensure the plan backfired on him. In the end Itachi never consider Sasuke's feeling at all until his death and sort of playing puppet with Sasuke's life.
The thing is, Itachi did all of the abuse to Sasuke simply so Itachi can be his main hatred, and in a clan where you are stronger the more you hate, he decided to be Sasuke’s beacon of hatred so he can protect his little brother by making him grow to become a powerful shinobi who can protect himself since Itachi can’t be there for him. He promised his parents he’d look after Sasuke. This was his way of doing that. You can’t look at it from an out of world perspective, he’s an Uchiha and that’s how they grow in strength. Morally it may seem wrong but if he hadn’t then Sasuke wouldn’t be as ambitious to grow stronger. Every single thing he did to Sasuke was for Sasuke’s growth in hatred. It wasn’t because he wanted to be killed by a member of his clan, he knew of Obito and how big of a threat he is and wanted Sasuke to take on the role of defeating him knowing that his own hands are tied as they’re in the same organization together. This is evident when Itachi implanted the Amaterasu to go off whenever Sasuke sees Obito. Obito is the same person who caused Itachi to awaken his sharingan in the first place by killing his teammate, and the same person he collaborated the massacre with under the only rule that Obito doesn’t attack the leaf, something Obito honors until Itachi’s death.
@@noctiscaelum5125 Itachi's plan was to make Sasuke stronger and due to his clan's past, Itachi chose hatred over love (since no MS user ever gained a Mangekyou sharingan from loving someone so much or being so happy they get an MS)
You should do one of these for Hiruzen. Hiruzen is dog shit morally he's just played up as good, worst Hokage by far. This has been a known thing in the community forever. Hiruzen is just played as a soft pacifist and because of this he causes a ridiculous amount of serious damage, problems, but it comes off more to be as just bring lazy, not caring enough to be bothered, Morally he's a pretty shit person as well. He literally let Naruto near starve, eat like shit and live like shit knowing he was Minatos son when as Hokage he very easily could have at the least secretly have made sure he ate well etc with ease .The ramen shop owner basically kept Naruto from starving when he was young. Hiruzen was basically solely responsible for everything that came with Orochimaru including his own death by refusing to kill or even capture him and just letting him go free when he literally found out he was experimenting on, killing and torturing kids and baby's. Then let's not even get into how little he did, looked past with Danzo, Route. He basically if your his friend or someone that's not a blatant af direct enemy looks past anything done and does nothing. A the things he allowed with Danzo, root and the elders were responsible for half the bad shit that happens in the series. Most of which he could have stopped with a little effort. Because he's a happy old man tho and portrayed as good it's looked past. Only real excuse that's logical I ever see is that be sacrificed himself to (unsuccessfully) kill Orochimaru later on. That however to me definitely doesn't make him a good person. In the ninja world or really isn't that crazy a feat even for bad guys to fight to the death, give themselves up for a fight.
@@New_Horizons Would be dope, I dont think I've ever seen any known TH-camr I. Depth touch on this. It's been briefly brought up in passing in other subjects, videos but not its own thing in depth.
@@New_Horizons Agree, even feel like it's more controversial than Itachi. Itachi's actual issues, morality is more complex but I feel like most agree on Itachi for the most part. I feel like before everyone thought Hiruzen was good simply because of him not being directly "mean" to characters and being cheerful. It wasnt until years after the series I feel 40-50% of people began really assessing and thinking Hiruzen was morally not a good person.
Ok so there are a few ways we can look at this 1: from our moral worldview, in this case even tho itachi is a child soldier the slaughtering of off duty soldiers and civilians is considered immoral and wrong no matter what. We wouldn’t justify a school shooter because they thought they were doing what would save the world. What’s worse is itachi is aware that he likely made the wrong choice and that he could have made more of an effort meaning he can’t plead insane or even necessarily under mental duress. 2: From the world of Naruto’s morality. While murder is far more justifiable in naruto the murder of one’s own clan is still considered especially heinous. While itachi is probably the most justified here he’s still leaning on the immoral side as his motives were primarily his brothers safety. You could say that if itachi didn’t do it someone else would have but 1 that wouldn’t have been successful and 2 naruto proved that characters can stick to their moral beliefs thus itachi is still immoral 3: Finally from itachi’s own worldview, this one actually might be the most important. Itachi consciously and willingly betrayed his morality to accomplish a utilitarian greater good that he thought was feasible. The problem is that right there basically admits that he was acting immoral as he both feels guilt for what he did and he did numerous things he believed were wrong. And in reality he didn’t actually accomplish much and if anything just massively boosted the chance that the akatsuki would succeed. The problem is itachi actually has a strong sense of morality he knows what’s right and wrong which means he actively chooses to go against that because he doesn’t believe another choice is possible his lack of faith is what led to his sins
Except that's a complete lie. Itachi didnt accomplish much? Itachi was singlehandedly responsible for keeping Konoha off limits to the Akatsuki. Obito says this? DId you not see that happen? This enabled Naruto and Sasuke enough time to get strong and then Itachi literally COMES BACK FROM THE FUCKING DEAD to stop Edo Tensei and basically convince Sasuke to hear Konoha out and then Sasuke helps Naruto take down Madara. Did you watch the series? Did you even read it?
@@crunkalac I’m saying considering what he was trying to do in the grand scale he wasn’t that successful. 1: Once itachi died they still attacked and wiped the leaf, you can also argue they wouldn’t have attacked sooner as they were generally waiting as they had to seal the beasts in order. 2: He did stop the edo tensei but most of the edo’s were sealed by then except madara and he wasn’t affected so it didn’t do too much. 3: He didn’t do much convincing of sasuke in fact he couldn’t convince sasuke which is why he left it in the hands of naruto.
@@kaison12205 This is literally copium. We're going to pretend Itachi wasnt extremely important in helping seal Nagato then went and helped defeat Kabuto which no one was able to even locate. Then we're going to pretend Sasuke doesnt resurrect the Hokage literally because he was curious about Itachi's love for Konoha and that they had no effect at all against their fight with Madara. They wouldnt have attacked sooner because they collect in order? They collected the 5 tails first then the 7 tails then the 1st then the 6 tails then the 2nd....bro that was so easily disproven head canon. Stop lying....why you lying for? You said Itachi didnt accomplish much....pffftt thats just a blatant lie.
@@crunkalac umm its the THIRD party, kabuto who revived itachi lol itachi never planned to come back from the afterlife, at all its you who don't watch naruto lol
also, what did itachi do when orochimaru killed millions of konoha people including hokage himself? kishimoto never planned to make itachi as a good guy, he's a rogue ninja, traitor No Wonder he didnt help konoha when they're on WAR againts sound and sand, millions died
I know where you stand on the topic, but Itachi bargained for Sasuke's life and threatened to leak secrets if he were harmed. So, it almost feels like he did it out of his own self-interest. Itachi cried about killing his parents but their philosophies differed and as the leader of the coup d'état, he held resentment towards his father. If it was a true trolley dilemma, Itachi would have to choose Sasuke or the village
Exactly…He’s fine with killing other Uchiha children-some of which were probably too young to even remember, but will make an exception at all costs when it comes to HIS little brother.
I’m not sure what novel ideas you could cover, but you could do something similar for Pain’s philosophy of peace through complete devastation, or Madara’s/Obito’s philosophy with the desire to use the Mugen Tsukuyomi. Until he realizes he was tricked about the true effect of that jutsu, Madara seems like one of the most ideologically consistent characters besides Naruto and Jiraiya.
Itachi was always a steadfast utilitarian, though I absolutely believe that he was inherently a good person, just one caught between two impossibilities. The choices he made as a child were ones within the restraints and situations that surrounded him, which did not leave him with many options. This is why I always enjoy his lecturing of Naruto; "There are times where a Shinobi will have to make very harsh decisions." Naruto had the luxury of the story behind him, thus his naive ideologies were seldom challenged in a meaningful way. He was never truly placed in a situation where there were only two extreme outcomes, unlike Itachi.
Yes many of villains were right pain was right about the cycle of hatred madrara was right about shnobi system being hell zabuza was right about shnobi being used by thier village and people and neji was right about destiny naruto is the child of destiny they had a better understanding about life than naruto kishimoto himself said that naruto is too naive and idealistic he thinks that friendship can solve real life problems like war poverty and political even when nagato asked how well bring peace naruto said I don't but he will magically figure it out that is what is so annoying but he character at times and don't forget when called obito the man that killed his parents the coolest guy ever it really makes think that his is carzy
Fugaku Ushiha would be a better hokage then Hiruzen, Tsunade or Danzo. Given how incompetent the Senju establishment had become (for instance, alienating the village's entire strongest clan and police force over nothing provable), and how blatantly sabotaging the Danzo's foundation was, Konoha was long overdue for a change in management. So no, killing the by far strongest clan as opposed to supporting them is not morally better then the would-be coup.
OMFG,, you got Fugaku's character all wrong ... what you said about him in the first part of your video is nowhere close to the truth - he was one of the few good Uchihas and his love for his sons was unconditional.
@@LinkLovesCrawfish Nope. In fact it was Fugaku who discretely held the radical Uchihas back for many years. Itachi was only 4 when they already were all pissed up and Fugaku kept telling them to calm the f*ck down. Fugaku lost his patience towards the village and proposed to throw a coup mainly, because he was hurt by the fact that his elder son's dream - to become the Hokage - was impossible only because of a corrupt system. He wanted a better world for Itachi, Sasuke and their kids in the future. Fugaku realised after Shisui's death that Itachi chose the village, but didn't stop or betray Itachi - for over a year. But, he didn't stop the clan either which he later regretted. (source.: Itachi Shinden)
The problem I truly have is that the village is never punished for its wrong doing, the leaf basically strong armed the uchiha and wanted to cry when they fought back, they literally kept poking the bear and when the bear had enough they say the bear was a threat, the bear was only a threat when you made it one, but the leaf was always doing this crap I say it alot but hiruzen is the worst hokage the leaf ever had, he was a push over who gave danzo to much power, he was ready to lead anbu to slaughter children but couldn't keep that same energy for danzo who tried to kill him multiple times what itachi and hiruzen should've done is kill danzo, disband root and include the uchiha in the leaf and make fugaku hokage because after minato died, and orochimaru left he was obviously the next best option, hiruzen could then step down and oh I don't know RAISE NARUTO BECAUSE HE PROMISED HED LOOK AFTER HIM WITH HIS PARENTS DEAD SO HE HAS PROPER TRAINING AND DOESNT WIN BY DUMB LUCK ( and let's be real here Part One naruto won by dumb luck alot ) The story of naruto is making every wrong choice possible then complaining why there's no peace in the world when literally the road to peace was always there for you you just chose not to take it, so I don't feel bad for itschi, if an idiot like me cam find a better solution then the so called genius should've found it also Also he joins the akatsuki and how did that in anyway help the leaf village? They still started a war killing alot of people and captured 7 of the 9 tail beast and committed even more crimes, itachi didn't really do much but make things worse
Hiruzen's biggest and fatalist long term mistakes are Danzo and Orochimaru being allowed to operate even after he found about their dark intentions and desires. So many of the world's and Konoha's issues grow from the actions of them two. Or they always find outside problems and insert them into Konoha. Hirzuen allowed his childhood friendship and later mentorship and the feelings connected to them to blur his actions when it came to end those two.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD exactly yet he had the nerve to talk about the will of fire all the damn time, if he truly believed in the will of fire then doing what was best for the village would be eliminating orochimaru and danzo, and from a logical standpoint the uchiha were an asset to the leaf village I'm not just gonna kill them all off like nothing, the massacre should've been the last resort and even then things never should've gotten that bad in the first place, hiruzen is the worst
@@dj2k460 hiruzen didn't want to massacre the Uchiha. He wanted the entire situation to end peacefully. It was Danzo and the elders who ordered the Uchiha massacre behind hiruzens back. He had no reason to eliminate Danzo. Also the village was correct to assert an Uchiha caused the nine tails attack. Danzo caused nagato to become pain but hiruzen wasn't aware of this as far as I've seen. Hiruzen thought Danzo disbanded root and weren't the parts where he tried to kill hiruzen filler? As for Orochimaru not killing him was bad judgement on hiruzens part.
@@Balancedtilt no the part with danzo trying to kill hiruzen wasn't filler that was apart of the kakashi backstory from the novel danzo tried to assinate hiruzen but he overlooked it and stripped him of his power and made his disband root which danzo ignored just did in secret anyway that's why the root had those underground bunkers hidden away because he was always working against hiruzen, and even if hiruzen didn't wanna massacre the uchiha he dragged his feet and allowed the mistreatment and didn't deny planning to kill them Also while an uchiha did cause the 9 tails attack it was a Rouge uchiha and the whole clan shouldn't be blamed with that logic if a senju was born with wood release and captured the 9 tails and attacked the village should the whole village hate the senju clan now? Look at what happened to the uzumaki and uchiha and its just plain wrong
The whole abusing Saskue thing goes out the window due to him being a descendent of the Six Paths. Putting him out his misery would basically be the end of Naruto
I don't support Itachi because he's the most moral person, he isn't. I support him because he strove to be so despite everyone around him causing him to have to go so far as to kill his clan. the Uchiha being too prideful, Hiruzen not "laying down the law" enough, etc. I don't see him as the most moral but good lord he strove to be
itachi didn’t want to fight sasuke until he had the mangekyo so sasuke could eventually take his and obtain ems and never go blind, which can explain why he put sasuke through so much mental tournament, in an attempt to awake his mangekyo. If itachi obtained his mangekyo from watching his best friend commit suicide, its likely for itachi to think that sasuke could awaken his by watching his parents be murdered by someone who he loved and was his brother
FUN FACT: Itachi kill less people than each of the Sannins, Madara, Pain, Obito, the first 4 Hokages and the first 4 kages of each nations while playing a major role in obtaining peace. This makes Itachi the 4th most effective peacemaker per body count in the entire series with only Sasuke, Naruto and Gaara killing less people than him while playing a major role in obtained peace despite not being a main character throughout the series. So to answer many fandom question... Itachi is not a psychopath or love killing yet people call him one otherwise.
To be honest, his character always felt a little scattered to me. It seems like he chose to follow through on extremely violent terrible things when there could have been better options. Maybe that's just me though
A better way to put is, is itachi is the reason we even have a naruto in the first place, can you imagine all the popular cast of kids you grew up with got slaughtered before they got a chance to do anything
Claiming the “Uchiha is the strongest in the world” is bold considering they are always second to their rivals, and considering they are the only clan that’s about to be extinct lol
Itachi made the worst decision he could in the moment, and only chose from the options given to him by a madman who he should've just killed on the spot.
He cant kill danzo since that would start the uchiha's coup, plus i dont even think he could considering shisui got ambushed and lost his eye and he was stronger than itachi
Let's simplify itachis actions, he murdered one group including the innocents among them like the children and his gf for example. He did this in the name of appeasing another group so he could prevent any of their innocents dying. Then when it came to actually killing everyone he was selfish and saved his brother who later became a criminal and defected due to itachis abuse and physiological infliction on his brother. But how will people try to justify Itachi being good morally they'll try to talk about why he did it as if why makes him morally better. Also there's no justification for his abuse of Sasuke at all. Almost forgot Itachi let orochimaru live during his Akatsuki days. Not to mention he never tried to kill Danzo either. This itachi guy sucks morally.
Agree entirely, he was written as a ruthless, deadly killer but then they changed their minds. He was much better as a merciless assassin than a 'misunderstood older brother'. There was no reason to wipe out a whole clan, just the combatants. We can blame his Uchiha bloodlust or even let it be explained that the survivors would suffer without the men around so it was a sort of mercy, but in the end the massacre of the Uchiha clan was a real blow to the hidden leaf and could have been enough to encourage an immediate response from enemy villages. I'm sure he went insane at some point after losing everyone, especially when he talked about taking Sasuke's eyes you can see the insanity coming out. In the end the most evident driving force of Itachi was power, he sought power for himself (which he obtained greatly) and then when he realised his time was almost up the next best thing was for his brother to obtain the same power. Sasuke would surpass his failures and redeem the Uchiha.
@@obe1withtheforce785 so you're saying the murder of only some of them would be more justifiable? Cause if that's what you're saying, an entire generation of Sasukes (curse of hatred) sound like a bad idea to me. If ANYONE is to blame for the tragedy, it's Fugaku. He could've stopped the escalation, but he decided to use his own kid as a tool for his own purposes, just like Donzo. Many more people would've died, regardless of anything Itachi, himself, did differently that night. Also, if Hiruzen really *was* the strongest Hokage to that point, as the early lore stated, why did he not let it happen and just body the best fighters for a victory via demoralization? Him and Minato could've easily disarmed the people in the situation and forced a treaty, but they just let it happen, and you're blaming a 14 year old for a zero-sum game he was forced to play? Not to mention, Donzo walked all over Hiruzen's authority, and Hiruzen did nothing there, either. Odd you hold Itachi to the standard of someone in the position of Hokage, and the Hokage with the standards of a child. Your argument is just flat out backwards (to me), dawg. The only reason Itachi stressed the eyes in their fight/made himself look manic over them is because Sasukes a dipsh¡t and didn't know anything about it till after that, cause he was too worried about pleasing daddy orochimaru. You can call em immoral all you want, but at the end of the day, every character is a trained killer in the grand scheme of the show trying to accomplish their goal: protecting the future of the people they love. I'm not an Itachi tard, but you're missing a$$loads of nuance, my guy. Same with OP. I mean, age of consent is 16 because you literally cannot conceptualize the weight of your actions until that rough benchmark, so how do you expect a 14 y/o to make a sound moral judgment in a civil, race war he never cared about? Simple - he's gonna protect what HE cares about. I dig the username, btw.
@@--...--...--... Would you like some fries with that salt? I'm not holding any fictional character accountable for anything, just observing the logic in the anime. Specifically Itachi's. You say 'he made himself look manic' so he was acting? Among his various talents, he also deserves an Oscar for pretending effectively, to be mentally unhinged. He isn't actually emotionally scarred from as you said having 'to make a sound moral judgement' as a 14 yo? Contrarily, what makes you equate an average 14 yo mind to that of a super powered elite assassin from a warring feudal nation in a Japanese anime who also happens to technically be part space 👽? Also yes, I am saying that wiping out just some of them would have been better, specifically the combat age men who were plotting against the hokage. The argument that they are all cursed with hatred that would inevitably lead them to ruin is exactly what caused them to become outcasts in their own village. Tobirama's distrust and segregation is to blame. A more realistic operation would be Itachi heads an assault that wipes out the insurrectionists when they are gathered together, forcing any other militants to surrender and desist. Easy. That's not what the writer's went for. Itachi was a ruthless, deadly, assassin among assassins, who was able to wipe out every/any other Uchiha on his own. Until they added more to the story to make it 'make sense'. There's no moral or logical path that leads to genocide. You don't need to be aged with wisdom to understand that. Itachi was bonkers and his every ambition flopped. Save hidden leaf? No. Protect Sasuke? No. Price - Mother, father, girlfriend, home and reputation. The progression is he gained mangekyo, susano, totsuka, akatsuki (whose objective was to collect the ultimate chakra weapons) - then obsessing over the eternal mangekyo just so his younger bro could get a power up? His story makes sense up until that point. He is a merciless killer obsessed with power above all else until he is a misunderstood secret hero of the hidden leaf who loved his brother above all else. One viewpoint is based off of ACTIONS, OUTCOMES, the other is based on a couple retroactively inserted plot points and 'hidden sentiment'.
I completely agree. People who crap on Itachi tend to ignore the situation he was in. It's not like Itachi ran around with a smile on his face as he slaughtered his people either. I personally don't think Itachi would've stood a chance against Fugaku had they actually fought. Fugaku was well composed while Itachi was mentally falling apart. A nerfed Itachi vs Fugaku wouldn't have been a close match IMO.
I blame Hiruzen to be honest, He allowed the likes of Danzo and Orochimaru to wander free and continue their actions which clearly where not for the good of Konoha. Itachi was sadly just another poor soul who had to make a unfair choice due to the actions of Danzo.
Itachi being « good » was definitely a retcon, so let’s start there. Secondly, if the leaf village wanted to prevent a civil war so bad because they wanted to avoid casualties, why not simply work with the Uchiha to resolves their grievances? Instead, they all but exiled the clan to the outskirts of the village. That’s not even the main point. The leaf village had ONE ninja that could take care of the entire clan in itachi! What civil war would there have actually been? Between all of the Jonin, the 3rd Hokage, and Itachi, any « war » would be settled almost instantly, it will be the fastest war ever. The leaf wouldn’t need more than 5 ninjas to deal with it. Imagine not only itachi, but the 3rd, kakashi, guy, Innashikacho?? How quickly would the Uchiha have admitted defeat? How many more lives could have actually been saved??? That’s what happens when you have crappy writing and a poorly done retcon.
@@AK-MS27LOT of stuff in itachi's writing between part 1 and 2 itachi does not mesh well together and makes itachi look extremely stupid. His plan was dumb, make no sense and him being a good guy is 100% a retcon.
@@AK-MS27One example just like that..... Itachi planned to use koto on sasuke as once as the crow came in contact with his sharingan so that he would be forced to fight for the leaf sake right ? Then why did he give the crow to naruto instead of using it vs sasuke ? Itachi was a major threat not only to the leaf but to the entire shinobi world too so sasuke would still had wanted to kill itachi under koto influence. That's literally the point of the illusion, fighting for the leaf and itachi was viewed as a threat, he's a dumbass 😅
If you are at a pathway that splits you can - go left (meaning you will feal extreme remorse and people around you will think you are a bad person. ) - go right (meaning you will feal extreme remorse and people around you will think you are a bad person. ) - stop (meaning you will be in extreme regret because you could end up making a slitly less worse outcome people around wont know so you in their eyes wont be a bad person. ) - go back (the worst solution no one will be happy. )
@@scrollingdownonlytofindcom2663 yh that was before he’d fully developed, he hadn’t confronted obito yet, but yes after fighting pain naruto did hold that same ideology for a while, just not to the same extent as sasuke
Danzo had just stolen Shisui's unused left eye for himself a day before and knew abou his capabilities, he also was shown to use it behind cover on the summit. Kind of lame but considering it's less like control and more like a extremely influential and overwhelming suggestion, that you actually 100% believe that you're acting of your own free will, it makes sense in a context of Itachi allowing others to dictate their options for his brilliant mind in an eminent, alarming situation. He was always shown to be far more decisive, coldly analytical and confident in his own actions prior and after the massacre, even though they still concerned people he emotionally cared about, so it makes sense that not only would he regret his part, but also understanding later that his hands were tied before he even knew it.
Good question you ask yourself is how come itachi couldn’t get rid of danzo Maybe at time he wasn’t skilled enough so he had to obey danzo but I’m surprised the jonin to Kage level uchihas didn’t get rid of danzo when they had the chance
Getting rid of Danzo wouldn't help Itachi in anyway though like at best it would bring Itachi some kind of satisfaction but at worst The third Hokage gets angry about it
@@SRVaris I hear you it’s a good thought I had and lord third getting angry about danzo getting killed even though he been on slick backstabbing ways behind lord third and would still be forgiven Which why lord third had lord fourth be homage cuz he was getting old on making decisions on who to keep in circle Lord fourth would’ve made sure danzo be gone if he knew about him sooner
Killing Danzo would weaken the hidden leaf village, something Itachi wouldn't want. There's a lot of bad things that the foundation does, but there's also good things they do to help protect the village and as a former Anbu Itachi is aware of this.
One of the things I never understood is why he slaughtered literally everyone. One of his main points to Danzo for leaving sasuke alive was that he posed no threat, he was just a child. And the same could be said for other children as well. Not to mention there’d obviously be some newborn uchia babies or just babies in general that are uchia. What’s the point in slaughtering literal babies… or even the elderly whats the point they pose no threat why slaughter them as well. I’d say why not the most notable thing would have been to just take out the notable fighters, and the kids who had the most potential based off acandmey scores, test scores, etc. everyone else though just let them live. Not all uchia are super mega strong ninja those ones really died for no reason. And the ones who were ( like the elderly ) are old they’d pose no threat. I just don’t see why literally every last uchia had to die. Also itachi did this to prevent a coupe. A group of academy aged children with ( at most ) 2 tomoe sharingons aren’t posing a threat to almost anyone. I’d also like to mention kakahsi himself stated the byakugon is superior to the sharingon ( he said it during the preliminary fights of the chunin exams in the manga) so again I don’t see the point. If again my point just take out the kids who showed the most potential. Late bloomers are rare among uchia kind ( the only one being obito) so they’d have nothing to worry about when they’d grow up.
@@sullea3267 I forgot about that, though kishimoto seemingly for no reason added obito into the equation. Like itachi could have wiped them out on his own. Adding obito never made any sense to me his presence doesn’t change anything at all. Either way all the uchia would have died.
@@0vern9K the reason Obito was needed was cause in the book Itachi believed Fugaku would be to much of a challenge for him so he seeked out the help of Obito. It was also so he could make the deal with Obito to not have Obito go after Sasuke until he died
My guess is in the same way Sasuke's hate natured him for revenge. Saduke being alive and allowed to grow was a massive problem already. I imagine more would be worse
The absolute best thing he could have done IMO was: 1. Kill only the adult males/coup members of the Uchiha 2. Kill Danzo if he moves to kill the rest of the clan No coup, no clan genocide. I kind of don't buy that a war would start due to this. No one attacked the hidden mist when their coup happened
What if the Third Hokage just made/announced plans to make Itachi the next Hokage? Would that stop the coup and ease tension with the Uchia clan? Also I know there’s a process for deciding Hokage and a current Hokage can’t just point at someone and make them the next Hokage (Tobirama aside but maybe those were just different times😬) but it’s not like Itachi wasn’t going to be qualified enough for the job anyway.
The same Uchiha clan that literally hated Itachi and wanted to put him jail every time he talked? Literally every time Itachi opens his mouth all he does is garner hatred from the clan.
@@crunkalac They wanted to arrest him because they assumed he killed Shisui. And they didn’t hate him every time he opened his mouth, some members felt like he was sympathizing with the village over his clan. The point of the coup was overcome the unfair treatment placed on the Uchia after the nine tails attack. They wouldn’t even negotiate with the third Hokage. They wanted to overthrow the local government, but putting an Uchia (and the clan leaders child prodigy at that) in the Hokage seat could be enough to convince the clan not to rebel. This is all hypothetical obviously, but I am saying there’s a chance it could work… even if he wasn’t like 4 Uchia guys favorite person
Itachi is not naruto his not the protagonist. Naruto can choose save his village and save his friend at the same time becase he said so and his motto. Itachi has 2 options and 1 choise. Thats it. In the novel is much more clear yet than the manga and the show. Yes he was capable of doing what he did. Some people would never do it. But who wouldnt do the dirty stuff would regret becase of the consequences
@XxneveragainxX yeah i like it although is very shonen for me, i would prefer the adult way of exploring that as it was with itachi but yeah, thats just naruto that can do that. I do dig talk no jutsu that naruto kid i belive in him hehe
Loved it, honestly I never thought of itachi as moral as what is the difference of following your clan or village even though both are In the wrong. The decision comes down to the lesser evil in this case killing your clan would prevent a world war from breaking out but I wish the hidden leafs actions could be addressed and those two elders that are somehow still alive in boruto would finally die!
Its not about that at all. Itachi is a pacifist. Uchihas are starting a war. Itachi can prevent the war and save as many lives as possible by stopping the Uchiha so thats what he does. The village were scared of the clan and did not trust them. This is not justification to start a massive war especially as a pacifist like Itachi.
@@crunkalac LOL Actually according to Itachi, if minority wants to riot about their discrimination, the correct path would be gen*c*de-ing them. K- the minority to save the majority. That's a f-ed up approach. Kishimoto really likes to support gen*c*de of minority & history negationism of that gen*c*de. After all, he's a right-winger Japan & obviously supporting Japan pretending Nanking Massacre never exist.
The whole problem comes in because itatchi didn’t want his clan name slandered on top of all of that, he wanted the coupe to be a secret, which forced him to leave the village.
He wanted Sasuke stronger because he knew everyone and the mama was gonna come after him after he was going to be the new name of the Uchiha and he needed to be a fine example
I never got how Kishimoto thought this out. Why would you kill all the Uchiha when all it would take is one yamanaka and another Uchiha with their sharingan on to have all the evidence they would need that the Uchiha were planning a coup’ then go from there. Have Itachi and your best sharingan counter unit Anbu go in place seals on the Uchiha that seal or drain their chakra then take away those who were planning it. Or have shusui use his genjutsu to make fugaku loyal to the leaf. It just feels like there were way to many easier options than a clan famicide
@@SRVaris fought back against what? It’s the same as a no knock warrant. They are ninja it wouldn’t be too hard to go in stealthy and subdue the ones that were planning this. Two teenagers took out the whole clan why would you think a group of Anbu couldnt apprehend the ones who were planning the coup.
@@PlayerJay425 Do you think the Uchiha just don't have guards they would notice a large amount of Anbu trying to enter the compound and warn the others A Group of Anbu couldn't do what you are describing also sealing chakra isn't something you can just do its likely a Ritual like the Evil Sealing Method(the thing Kakashi used to seal the curse mark think about that Kakashi the Student of the best seal master needed a ritual to seal away the Curse mark now imagine the process of sealing away someones chakra) Also Shisui Tried to use his genjutsu on Fugaku but Danzo stopped it
@@SRVaris who said it had to be a large amount of ppl, two ppl took out the whole clan itachi and 2 or 3 more ppl shouldn’t be a problem when it’s only one more person than originally. There are seals for draining chakra so a seal for sealing it off or stoping it’s usage is more then likely do able or you know have one of the Anbu be a hyuuga and gentle fist the path way to their eyes. Or have it be an Aburame and have them poison the ones then capture them. The sealing is really just to stop them from using whatever hacks their few mangekyos might have. If they take our fugaku first there’s an increased chance the rest would give up if he’s supposed to be the strongest one. Danzo is a problem solely because Sarutobi was too soft on him I think he wanted to kill all the Uchiha period coup be damned.
@@PlayerJay425 2 people who were within the top 5 strongest people on the planet at the moment one of them being the number 1(who they wouldn't have) And Itachi was unsure of actually defeating Fugaku so that can't even be counted on Fugaku was a hokage candidate he isn't going to go down without a fight which would draw a lot of attention Also your forgetting because Danzo wanted the clan slaughtered he might send a root agent to warn the Uchiha before that happened or a group of agents to take the Anbu group out Another thing what happens after this after the news of the coup The Uchiha clan would be universally hated and would be thought of as no good traitors and would cement the Uchiha as the people who orchestrated the nine tails attack think of there treatment after that how terrible that would be and how those Uchiha would react to that you now have a bunch of Uchiha(With at minimum 2 tome sharingans) who are pissed off
It is only my conjecture but if Itachi and Shishui could have teamed up and assassinated Danzo and his minions first and kill all warmonger elders of the Uchiha clan, then cooperated with Hiruzen to have peace talks.
When he said he should’ve been honest with sasuke and find a peaceful way…nah dawg Danzo would’ve fuck shit up and the 2 elders don’t have brain so they’ll just stick with danzo and hiruzen
I’d let all 5 go instantly without even thinking about it lol. Who why would I steer a trolley into one person just because there’s more on the other. One event you essentially had no control over, the other it was your actions and not the natural course of things. There’s no telling if those five people were even worth the one.
Ya Itachi even says to Naruto that what he did wasn't the right option but that's what I loved about that moment in the novel where you can understand that from Itachi's prospective he had no choice but after a while you come to other answers on how he could have done it better but you realize with everything one his mind at the time and limited time to think in that moment it seemed smart and moral but had he had more time to think and someone to confide in probably could have found another way
Personally I don’t like itachi I know that this comment will get a lot of hate but I just don’t like him reasoning being is itachi murdered his intire family I know that it was for his brother but he tamitized his own brother by thinking that this was just for him to get power and not only that he didn’t even explain why he then made his brother kill him that’s even more tramitizing.
You present three choices. Support the village, support the Uchiha, or do nothing. But that's false. There are many different choices. And every choice is filled with further nuance. Confront Fugaku, and try and talk him down. Did we even see a scene of Itachi attempting such? Kill Fugaku. Threaten both factions that you'll support the other. And so try and convince both that a violent solution is too risky. Kill the Uchiha, but not ALL the Uchiha. Despite what is said, I refuse to believe that Sasuke was actually the only one who didn't know. Wasn't there anybody even younger then him? Try to convince the Uchiha clan to simply leave the leaf village. Assassinate Hiruzen yourself. Take all the blame for it and still become a missing ninja. Fugaku might just become the next Hogake naturally. Undoubtedly there are other things Itachi could have tried. What he ended up choosing was, to put it bluntly, inexcusable. As Itachi plainly isn't an evil man, the only conclusion I come to is that he is a fool.
He already tried/did most of the things you said. You have to read the light novel. 1. He talked to the uchiha countless times, but there hatred towards the village was too much to change there mind, hence the reason why they came up with the plan to use kotoamatsukami on Fugaku. 2. Also, he did end up killing fugaku, but he killed everybody else because many uchiha would bear hatred that will cause even greater deaths in the future. You already got Madara, shisui, Obito, Itachi, and Sasuke. Having more people of their caliber that bear hatred towards the leaf or want to conquer the world would be terrible. 3. Assassinating Hiruzen is one of the dumbest choices ever. Danzo would end up becoming hokage, and the elders would back him up. This is the same danzo who destroyed Itachi and Shisui’s peaceful plan to help the uchiha and leaf make amends. I’d recommend reading the light novel, you’d find out a lot more
@@fvrloading4324 You sound like Tobirama. That the Uchiha clan is just doomed to always fall to hatred. Counter example, Didn't Itachi have a girlfriend in the novels? Was she also a leaf village hating nutjob? What makes you think Danzo would become Hogake? He wasn't a consideration when the fourth Hogake was about to be chosen. The choices were Orochimaru, Minato, or Fugaku. The fire daimyo woudn't pick Danzo unless he is placed under a genjutsu.
@@najex1 1. Itachi didn’t have a girlfriend in the novel. Izumi was the person who fell in love with Itachi, but he put his feeling aside and separated himself from her because he had to achieve his ultimate goal of becoming the strongest shinobi in the world to end all conflict. During the massacre, he gave Izumi what she wanted, a peaceful life with him where she lived to 80 and had kids with Itachi. He did understand her feelings, and did his best to fulfill them. That’s why before she died, she told Itachi “Thank you.” 2. Minato was already dead. Orochimaru was no longer in the village around the time of the massacre. Nobody wanted the Uchiha in charge of things, hence the the reason why Danzo would be the next choice, just like he was during the 5 kage summit. 3. I don’t sound like tobirama because Itachi already tried other ways, which were ruined. The only option left was a massacre of either the leaf or the Uchiha. If he chose the leaf instead, the neighboring villages would take advantage of the situation and that would cause even more bloodshed than massacring the Uchiha. He simply just chose the option with the least amount of casualties, after trying and failing all of his peaceful attempts.
The exact relation between itachi and Izumi is besides the point. What matters was whether she too was a leaf hating nutjob that had to die. She wasn't. I was giving an example of people besides Sasuke that didn't need to die. I'm not saying killing Hiruzen was a good choice. I was just shooting example. A true hero would place himself between the clan and the leaf village. Only allowing the two to come to blows over his own dead body. That's what I feel Naruto would do, and it will always be the choice I'll respect the most. Even if there is a chance you'll lose everything in the end. Never give up on finding a way out of the no-win-scenario. I've skimmed that novel, and even in the end, it was clear Fugake didn't know for certain that Itachi would side against the clan. It's clear Itachi never gave Fugake a clear statement that no, he will not support this idiocy. And considering that Fugake's big plan relied on Itachi helping, that might have changed things.
@@najex1 You make good points. The Naruto way is another choice he could’ve made. But personally I think he made the right decision. Also, that is your definition that a hero should be like “Naruto” and never give up in a no win scenario. Itachi isn’t Naruto and chose what he thought was best at 14 years old. To the leaf, he was a hero. To the Uchiha, he wasn’t. It’s subjective. The Naruto way wouldn’t have worked regardless anyway. A 14 year old boy is not stopping both the leaf and Uchiha by himself, especially since shisui is dead. Also, the “Naruto never giving up in no win situations,” failed against pain. He only succeeded because the nine tails came out after he lost control when pain showed him that his morals were only subjectively right. Itachi doesn’t have a trump card like that, he would’ve just lost and a war would’ve broken out regardless. Choosing the option with the least amount of casualties after every peaceful attempt failed has a way higher chance of success rather than choosing the bizarre option of using all of your might to stop both the Leaf(the literally strongest village), and the Uchiha, one of the strongest clans as a 14 year old by himself with no help. He made the right choice in my eyes.
I'm going to shoot itachi some bail on the doubling down on Sasuke because time isn't enough for what happened. Killing your own family had to be extremely traumatic. Time without therapy I'd negligible help in healing at best. I also think part of making Sasuke seek power was also so the leaf had a powerful asset I feel like that was said or implied but I cant remember so I could be wrong
I don't blame Itachi, Itachi murdered his own clan due to pressure from grown adults and the issues they created first. Danzo and the fact Hiruzen left him to fester his disgusting schemes can often be found to be the root for most of the worst things of Konoha. Danzo and I even dare say Orochimaru being allowed to continue their plans and never stopped by Hiruzen is the biggest flaw and cause for a lot of the issues.
@@jaredgreathouse3672 exactly, though adult Itachi's actions later on though I will say harder to justify. Like his attempt of kidnapping Naruto or trying to get Sasuke to kill Naruto.
Danzo and Orochimaru both instrumental in stopping the end of the world later on though. It was Danzo that came up with the idea of the shinobi alliance, told the world Madara was back and told the villages the Akatsuki's goal in capturing the tailed beasts. Not to mention preventing the collapse of Konoha which Konoha is pretty much the only reason the Shinobi alliance had any chance in winning. It was Orochimaru's knowledge that enable the Shinobi alliance to even have a fighting chance at all.
Fun fact: Obito Was actually the one who killed the Women & Children During the Massacre. Itachi wanted to Do it and actually told him he would. but tobi insisted that he do it instead that way he won't have all that on his Concious. I forgot exactly Where I read that from but yeah. Great Video my boy. Itachi Is Great. Easily top 5 characters in the show
IF itachi really thought things out, maybe he could have realized that simply killing his father fugaku, and possibly shisui, that would have completely stopped the uchiha rebellion in it's tracks, having the strongest 3, and possibly only mangekyo users aside from "madara" out of the picture, the uchihas would stand no chance, obito would still get stomped by minato resulting in the uchihas running back home.
Tbh thats the same thing as putting fugaku under kotoamatsukami, if anything the uchiha were going to do the coup regardless, with fugaku dead they would target the leaf higher ups and itachi
@@UnknownUser-iy7yb @Nightmare X dude you don't understand. without any magekyo users minato could incapicitate the entire uchicha clan within seconds. Minato and the 3rd hokage not to mention jiriyah could easily beat 10000 plain sharingan users it's not even a question.
@@joseole1117 true but jiraiya already left the village at this point but i do agree if he thought things out they could’ve improvised and done something else
@@UnknownUser-iy7yb yeah not to mention kakashi and danzo would have tipped the scales undoublty far in the leaf villages favor, even quickly and discreetly enough that no other village would notice.
@@implexitykyuubi yeah but the novels wrote how Itachi mainly targeted the police force and men while Obito the Women and children + elderly because Obito said Itachi wouldn't be able to handle it and might go insane
I think the fact that Itachi has made what a lot of people consider mistakes and acted in either morally ambiguous or outright immoral ways is what makes his character so compelling. You have to remember, he was only 14 when he was forced to wipe out his entire clan. As brilliant as he was for his age, you just can’t expect a kid like him to perfectly understand how to prevent a rebellion. If you believe the Uchiha Clan Massacre to be immoral, I think it’s much more reasonable to put the blame on the Hidden Leaf Elders. They’re supposed to be the wisest and most experienced shinobi in the village, so it makes sense to place more of the responsibility of stopping a rebellion on them than a 14 year old kid. Some people argue that Itachi’s morally questionable actions he took, between the Uchiha massacre and the way he handled Sasuke’s development, make his character more interesting. He admits to Sasuke that he made mistakes with him and is part of the reason Sasuke became a criminal. Itachi’s heart was in the right place and he was only doing what he thought would be the most beneficial at the time. Perfect characters really aren’t all that interesting, and Itachi’s imperfections are part of what make him a holistically interesting character.
There was no easy fix all strategy to prevent the coup attempt. They choose the 14 year old Uchiha to do it because he was the best guy to do it by minimalizing casualties on their side. Not to mention the village was under the impression this is the Uchiha's second coup attempt and because of how soft Hiruzen was by letting them off the hook after Minato's death...the 2nd one is around the corner. Now they're going to do it Danzo's way and prevent that tragedy from ever happening again. The real blame is Obito unleashing the Kyubi on Konoha to kill Minato framing his clan and then participating in their slaughter afterwards. What a sick bastard. If the village knew it was only Obito acting alone none of this even happens.
I dont care what he did, his moral was impecable, he cared more about others than about himself and took the better course of action preventing the most deaths while saving his brother and being under blackmail, i mean, they basically told him that either he murders most of his clan or they kill all off them after a deadly civil war
People try and say Itachi was just a kid yet he was an elite level ninja and considered a genius when he killed his clan. So that’s irrelevant. Itachi was fully capable of assessing the situation and chose GENOCIDE as the answer. The fact the writer tries to describe him as a pacifist just FURTHER let’s me know Kishimoto does not know how to write and doesn’t know what he’s writing, he’s just doing anything to make the character seem more sympathetic.
Complete BS. Itachi was under genjutsu and his decision was not his. This was never stated but it would be what I would do if I was Danzo to guarantee success which is in his character. Killing off whole clan to protect Konoha is complete BS. Sparing Sasuke despite such strong genjustsu makes more sense to show off his love for him. Its pretty much obvious. How can this be missed? O_o
I’ve seen people try and claim itachi did the right even tho he was a mere child however itachi at this age was still a prodigy and relative genius I think itachi was right in the claim that the uchiha rebellion would have done nothing but make matters even worse and create a whole series of murders and war. Anbu or not I think itachi should have absolutely fought for his people to exchange and entire culture for your brothers safety is quite sweet in my eyes that doesn’t changed the fact you pretty much helped created one of the most bloody and traumatizing events in yours and sasukes life. I’ve seen people say itachi is the best big brother that truly loved his brother when even tho all this was to make sasukes eyes and resolve strong enough to further protect him in future endeavors, a parting gift to his brother as he had received once himself its extreme to say such things when most of his race being wiped he had part in. Also something I found funny is that I doudt itachi saw all this shit coming like sasuke eventually wanting his eyes. Now what if sasuke flat out rejected being like his brother and never learned the truth, we would be screwed by a war as well sasuke hating itachi forever. Hell I find it funny how sasukes eye transplant could have been the perfect time to kill him and be done with it but ya know
This isn’t a debate, itachi knocked on the door to kidnap naruto, his morality is unmatched
“Excuse me, may i kidnap you?”
@@velo836 😂😂
🤣🤣😭
@XxneveragainxX 🤣
@XxneveragainxX 🤣
Itachi was planning to mind control Sasuke into protecting the Leaf Village. Enough said.
Itachi is a utilitarian and consequentialist. His goal is to minimize harm as best as possible, and that he'll weight the morality of an action based off of the predictable consequences of his actions and who it'll affect
Which is why he raw asf bro was a psychologist frfr who had great combat skill
Even though he caused harm
I would say nagato is more of a utilitarian
@@lastlivinglegends1351 because of his persona, inacting harm was necessary, however he tried to minimize harm and damage
@@UnknownUser-iy7yb but he didn’t he killed his own clan that ofc that was going to cause a problem
Itachi had a really toxic love/relationship with Sasuke. Itachi did emotionally, and physically, abuse Sasuke. He also neglected him, we know that will fuck a child up. Seeing sasuke’s downward spiral was horrifying, and anxiety inducing. Even though itachi’s actions were horrific, the hokage all say Itachi was a hero, and made the right choice. It makes you ponder over how dangerous nationalism can be.
True. I'm glad like you are in naruto fandom. Itachi is written very good but the problem comes when the narrative treats him like a hero..
@@allipse8224thank you I appreciate it. I had to rewatch his and sasuke’s scenes in dub and sub to get to this conclusion. It just freaks me out how no one sees the nationalism in the story. If bad acts are done for people’s own gain, it’s bad. But if you turn yourself into a monster for the village…it can be forgiven, and your honor will be restored. I see a lot of kids coming away from Naruto thinking Itachi was always good. Hopefully as they get older they’ll see why that’s not the case. I don’t see people talk about this enough
@@camcam794 same here. I watched naruto again thru reactions. Debated and analysed a lot..
The thing about itachi wanting Sasuke to kill him is that it wasn't just about itachi wanting to die at the hand of another Uchiha. He believed that having Sasuke kill him would make Sasuke a hero of the village who would become famous and beloved for defeating one of the worst criminals in the history of konoha. He wanted to ensure that Sasuke would be loved by people even after itachis death.
and he wanted sasuke to take his eyes
@XxneveragainxX 💀
True. I also think that if Itachi didn't made Sasuke hate him that Sasuke would only feel pain without having a straight goal in his life.
everything he planned is meaningless cuz there's tobi who knows his secrets DUH
he's still as stupid as always
Telling Sasuke to hate ensure the plan backfired on him. In the end Itachi never consider Sasuke's feeling at all until his death and sort of playing puppet with Sasuke's life.
The thing is, Itachi did all of the abuse to Sasuke simply so Itachi can be his main hatred, and in a clan where you are stronger the more you hate, he decided to be Sasuke’s beacon of hatred so he can protect his little brother by making him grow to become a powerful shinobi who can protect himself since Itachi can’t be there for him. He promised his parents he’d look after Sasuke. This was his way of doing that. You can’t look at it from an out of world perspective, he’s an Uchiha and that’s how they grow in strength. Morally it may seem wrong but if he hadn’t then Sasuke wouldn’t be as ambitious to grow stronger. Every single thing he did to Sasuke was for Sasuke’s growth in hatred. It wasn’t because he wanted to be killed by a member of his clan, he knew of Obito and how big of a threat he is and wanted Sasuke to take on the role of defeating him knowing that his own hands are tied as they’re in the same organization together. This is evident when Itachi implanted the Amaterasu to go off whenever Sasuke sees Obito.
Obito is the same person who caused Itachi to awaken his sharingan in the first place by killing his teammate, and the same person he collaborated the massacre with under the only rule that Obito doesn’t attack the leaf, something Obito honors until Itachi’s death.
No... the only rule was to never attack his little brother
@@noctiscaelum5125 ?
@@slicenice5603 ???
Itachi even told sasuke that “madara” (meaning Obito) helped kill the clan. This obviously would make sasuke plan on killing him too.
@@noctiscaelum5125 Itachi's plan was to make Sasuke stronger and due to his clan's past, Itachi chose hatred over love (since no MS user ever gained a Mangekyou sharingan from loving someone so much or being so happy they get an MS)
You should do one of these for Hiruzen.
Hiruzen is dog shit morally he's just played up as good, worst Hokage by far. This has been a known thing in the community forever. Hiruzen is just played as a soft pacifist and because of this he causes a ridiculous amount of serious damage, problems, but it comes off more to be as just bring lazy, not caring enough to be bothered, Morally he's a pretty shit person as well.
He literally let Naruto near starve, eat like shit and live like shit knowing he was Minatos son when as Hokage he very easily could have at the least secretly have made sure he ate well etc with ease .The ramen shop owner basically kept Naruto from starving when he was young.
Hiruzen was basically solely responsible for everything that came with Orochimaru including his own death by refusing to kill or even capture him and just letting him go free when he literally found out he was experimenting on, killing and torturing kids and baby's. Then let's not even get into how little he did, looked past with Danzo, Route. He basically if your his friend or someone that's not a blatant af direct enemy looks past anything done and does nothing. A the things he allowed with Danzo, root and the elders were responsible for half the bad shit that happens in the series. Most of which he could have stopped with a little effort.
Because he's a happy old man tho and portrayed as good it's looked past. Only real excuse that's logical I ever see is that be sacrificed himself to (unsuccessfully) kill Orochimaru later on. That however to me definitely doesn't make him a good person. In the ninja world or really isn't that crazy a feat even for bad guys to fight to the death, give themselves up for a fight.
Hard agree, it would be very interesting.
Hiruzen always gave me government politician that puts on a show for people but is kinda shit deep down vibes.
I might make a video on Hiruzen similar to this one.
@@New_Horizons Would be dope, I dont think I've ever seen any known TH-camr I. Depth touch on this. It's been briefly brought up in passing in other subjects, videos but not its own thing in depth.
@@New_Horizons Agree, even feel like it's more controversial than Itachi. Itachi's actual issues, morality is more complex but I feel like most agree on Itachi for the most part. I feel like before everyone thought Hiruzen was good simply because of him not being directly "mean" to characters and being cheerful. It wasnt until years after the series I feel 40-50% of people began really assessing and thinking Hiruzen was morally not a good person.
The right where nothing is left. Even if it meant dying I’d die proudly knowing I fought alongside my family and loved ones for a just cause.
Me too.
Altho, if I was in place of itachi, I would kill uchihas behind coup. Definitely won't kill innocent children and my family
Itachi was the best anti villain, twist, tough love, brother character ever written into a story.
Ok so there are a few ways we can look at this
1: from our moral worldview, in this case even tho itachi is a child soldier the slaughtering of off duty soldiers and civilians is considered immoral and wrong no matter what. We wouldn’t justify a school shooter because they thought they were doing what would save the world. What’s worse is itachi is aware that he likely made the wrong choice and that he could have made more of an effort meaning he can’t plead insane or even necessarily under mental duress.
2: From the world of Naruto’s morality. While murder is far more justifiable in naruto the murder of one’s own clan is still considered especially heinous. While itachi is probably the most justified here he’s still leaning on the immoral side as his motives were primarily his brothers safety. You could say that if itachi didn’t do it someone else would have but 1 that wouldn’t have been successful and 2 naruto proved that characters can stick to their moral beliefs thus itachi is still immoral
3: Finally from itachi’s own worldview, this one actually might be the most important. Itachi consciously and willingly betrayed his morality to accomplish a utilitarian greater good that he thought was feasible. The problem is that right there basically admits that he was acting immoral as he both feels guilt for what he did and he did numerous things he believed were wrong. And in reality he didn’t actually accomplish much and if anything just massively boosted the chance that the akatsuki would succeed. The problem is itachi actually has a strong sense of morality he knows what’s right and wrong which means he actively chooses to go against that because he doesn’t believe another choice is possible his lack of faith is what led to his sins
Except that's a complete lie. Itachi didnt accomplish much? Itachi was singlehandedly responsible for keeping Konoha off limits to the Akatsuki. Obito says this? DId you not see that happen? This enabled Naruto and Sasuke enough time to get strong and then Itachi literally COMES BACK FROM THE FUCKING DEAD to stop Edo Tensei and basically convince Sasuke to hear Konoha out and then Sasuke helps Naruto take down Madara.
Did you watch the series? Did you even read it?
@@crunkalac I’m saying considering what he was trying to do in the grand scale he wasn’t that successful. 1: Once itachi died they still attacked and wiped the leaf, you can also argue they wouldn’t have attacked sooner as they were generally waiting as they had to seal the beasts in order. 2: He did stop the edo tensei but most of the edo’s were sealed by then except madara and he wasn’t affected so it didn’t do too much.
3: He didn’t do much convincing of sasuke in fact he couldn’t convince sasuke which is why he left it in the hands of naruto.
@@kaison12205 This is literally copium. We're going to pretend Itachi wasnt extremely important in helping seal Nagato then went and helped defeat Kabuto which no one was able to even locate. Then we're going to pretend Sasuke doesnt resurrect the Hokage literally because he was curious about Itachi's love for Konoha and that they had no effect at all against their fight with Madara. They wouldnt have attacked sooner because they collect in order? They collected the 5 tails first then the 7 tails then the 1st then the 6 tails then the 2nd....bro that was so easily disproven head canon.
Stop lying....why you lying for? You said Itachi didnt accomplish much....pffftt thats just a blatant lie.
@@crunkalac umm its the THIRD party, kabuto who revived itachi lol
itachi never planned to come back from the afterlife, at all
its you who don't watch naruto lol
also,
what did itachi do when orochimaru killed millions of konoha people including hokage himself?
kishimoto never planned to make itachi as a good guy,
he's a rogue ninja, traitor
No Wonder he didnt help konoha when they're on WAR againts sound and sand,
millions died
This youtuber is so underrated
This is such an interesting video. I really like looking at the morality of Naruto.
Bruh, can you not? Lol
@@--...--...--... And now my younger sibling is here. How fun.
I know where you stand on the topic, but Itachi bargained for Sasuke's life and threatened to leak secrets if he were harmed. So, it almost feels like he did it out of his own self-interest. Itachi cried about killing his parents but their philosophies differed and as the leader of the coup d'état, he held resentment towards his father. If it was a true trolley dilemma, Itachi would have to choose Sasuke or the village
Exactly…He’s fine with killing other Uchiha children-some of which were probably too young to even remember, but will make an exception at all costs when it comes to HIS little brother.
I find the question of "What could Itachi have done different?" to be a bit off. He never should have been in that position in the first place.
Best Narutuber 🔥🔥🔥🔥 (better than swag IMO) Noone quite analyzes this show this deep as you bro, keep it up!
On god
Fr
He has a nice voice too
that’s a fact
He still insists that Haku is a girl though
How does this guy not get more views, his voice is so relaxing
Swagkage ??
I’m not sure what novel ideas you could cover, but you could do something similar for Pain’s philosophy of peace through complete devastation, or Madara’s/Obito’s philosophy with the desire to use the Mugen Tsukuyomi. Until he realizes he was tricked about the true effect of that jutsu, Madara seems like one of the most ideologically consistent characters besides Naruto and Jiraiya.
I love peace so much im going to destroy everyone and everything 😂
Itachi was always a steadfast utilitarian, though I absolutely believe that he was inherently a good person, just one caught between two impossibilities. The choices he made as a child were ones within the restraints and situations that surrounded him, which did not leave him with many options. This is why I always enjoy his lecturing of Naruto; "There are times where a Shinobi will have to make very harsh decisions." Naruto had the luxury of the story behind him, thus his naive ideologies were seldom challenged in a meaningful way. He was never truly placed in a situation where there were only two extreme outcomes, unlike Itachi.
Yes many of villains were right pain was right about the cycle of hatred madrara was right about shnobi system being hell zabuza was right about shnobi being used by thier village and people and neji was right about destiny naruto is the child of destiny they had a better understanding about life than naruto kishimoto himself said that naruto is too naive and idealistic he thinks that friendship can solve real life problems like war poverty and political even when nagato asked how well bring peace naruto said I don't but he will magically figure it out that is what is so annoying but he character at times and don't forget when called obito the man that killed his parents the coolest guy ever it really makes think that his is carzy
Fugaku Ushiha would be a better hokage then Hiruzen, Tsunade or Danzo. Given how incompetent the Senju establishment had become (for instance, alienating the village's entire strongest clan and police force over nothing provable), and how blatantly sabotaging the Danzo's foundation was, Konoha was long overdue for a change in management. So no, killing the by far strongest clan as opposed to supporting them is not morally better then the would-be coup.
That intro was cold af bro
It was pretty cringe
@@shadowrealm3245 your name is shadow realm and the only two vids on ur channel are under a playlist named cringe ur opinion doesnt matter
@@AIVI227 love the roast lmao
Kid me: Itachi is so cool
2022 me: Itachi nearly killed his entire family just because the government told him to.
CHRIST IS KING
OMFG,, you got Fugaku's character all wrong ... what you said about him in the first part of your video is nowhere close to the truth - he was one of the few good Uchihas and his love for his sons was unconditional.
Itatchi’s father was going to throw the coupe However the only reason he didn’t because didn’t want to fight his son
@@LinkLovesCrawfish Nope. In fact it was Fugaku who discretely held the radical Uchihas back for many years. Itachi was only 4 when they already were all pissed up and Fugaku kept telling them to calm the f*ck down. Fugaku lost his patience towards the village and proposed to throw a coup mainly, because he was hurt by the fact that his elder son's dream - to become the Hokage - was impossible only because of a corrupt system. He wanted a better world for Itachi, Sasuke and their kids in the future. Fugaku realised after Shisui's death that Itachi chose the village, but didn't stop or betray Itachi - for over a year. But, he didn't stop the clan either which he later regretted. (source.: Itachi Shinden)
Why are you so underrated
Keep in mind im sure the writer came up with alot of the details after creating the plot
you expressed basically every thought and sentiment I have about Itachi perfectly
The problem I truly have is that the village is never punished for its wrong doing, the leaf basically strong armed the uchiha and wanted to cry when they fought back, they literally kept poking the bear and when the bear had enough they say the bear was a threat, the bear was only a threat when you made it one, but the leaf was always doing this crap I say it alot but hiruzen is the worst hokage the leaf ever had, he was a push over who gave danzo to much power, he was ready to lead anbu to slaughter children but couldn't keep that same energy for danzo who tried to kill him multiple times what itachi and hiruzen should've done is kill danzo, disband root and include the uchiha in the leaf and make fugaku hokage because after minato died, and orochimaru left he was obviously the next best option, hiruzen could then step down and oh I don't know RAISE NARUTO BECAUSE HE PROMISED HED LOOK AFTER HIM WITH HIS PARENTS DEAD SO HE HAS PROPER TRAINING AND DOESNT WIN BY DUMB LUCK ( and let's be real here Part One naruto won by dumb luck alot )
The story of naruto is making every wrong choice possible then complaining why there's no peace in the world when literally the road to peace was always there for you you just chose not to take it, so I don't feel bad for itschi, if an idiot like me cam find a better solution then the so called genius should've found it also
Also he joins the akatsuki and how did that in anyway help the leaf village? They still started a war killing alot of people and captured 7 of the 9 tail beast and committed even more crimes, itachi didn't really do much but make things worse
Hiruzen's biggest and fatalist long term mistakes are Danzo and Orochimaru being allowed to operate even after he found about their dark intentions and desires. So many of the world's and Konoha's issues grow from the actions of them two. Or they always find outside problems and insert them into Konoha. Hirzuen allowed his childhood friendship and later mentorship and the feelings connected to them to blur his actions when it came to end those two.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD exactly yet he had the nerve to talk about the will of fire all the damn time, if he truly believed in the will of fire then doing what was best for the village would be eliminating orochimaru and danzo, and from a logical standpoint the uchiha were an asset to the leaf village I'm not just gonna kill them all off like nothing, the massacre should've been the last resort and even then things never should've gotten that bad in the first place, hiruzen is the worst
@@dj2k460 hiruzen didn't want to massacre the Uchiha. He wanted the entire situation to end peacefully. It was Danzo and the elders who ordered the Uchiha massacre behind hiruzens back. He had no reason to eliminate Danzo. Also the village was correct to assert an Uchiha caused the nine tails attack. Danzo caused nagato to become pain but hiruzen wasn't aware of this as far as I've seen. Hiruzen thought Danzo disbanded root and weren't the parts where he tried to kill hiruzen filler?
As for Orochimaru not killing him was bad judgement on hiruzens part.
Facts!!
@@Balancedtilt no the part with danzo trying to kill hiruzen wasn't filler that was apart of the kakashi backstory from the novel danzo tried to assinate hiruzen but he overlooked it and stripped him of his power and made his disband root which danzo ignored just did in secret anyway that's why the root had those underground bunkers hidden away because he was always working against hiruzen, and even if hiruzen didn't wanna massacre the uchiha he dragged his feet and allowed the mistreatment and didn't deny planning to kill them
Also while an uchiha did cause the 9 tails attack it was a Rouge uchiha and the whole clan shouldn't be blamed with that logic if a senju was born with wood release and captured the 9 tails and attacked the village should the whole village hate the senju clan now? Look at what happened to the uzumaki and uchiha and its just plain wrong
The whole abusing Saskue thing goes out the window due to him being a descendent of the Six Paths. Putting him out his misery would basically be the end of Naruto
I don't support Itachi because he's the most moral person, he isn't. I support him because he strove to be so despite everyone around him causing him to have to go so far as to kill his clan. the Uchiha being too prideful, Hiruzen not "laying down the law" enough, etc. I don't see him as the most moral but good lord he strove to be
itachi didn’t want to fight sasuke until he had the mangekyo so sasuke could eventually take his and obtain ems and never go blind, which can explain why he put sasuke through so much mental tournament, in an attempt to awake his mangekyo. If itachi obtained his mangekyo from watching his best friend commit suicide, its likely for itachi to think that sasuke could awaken his by watching his parents be murdered by someone who he loved and was his brother
Unfortunately Sasuke didnt obtain MS. Maybe because it was a genjutsu and Sasuke knew it
FUN FACT: Itachi kill less people than each of the Sannins, Madara, Pain, Obito, the first 4 Hokages and the first 4 kages of each nations while playing a major role in obtaining peace. This makes Itachi the 4th most effective peacemaker per body count in the entire series with only Sasuke, Naruto and Gaara killing less people than him while playing a major role in obtained peace despite not being a main character throughout the series. So to answer many fandom question... Itachi is not a psychopath or love killing yet people call him one otherwise.
Itachi killed innocent children. He is a psychopath
@@allipse8224 Minato also killed innocent children in the war, is he a physchopath?
Underrated
Can you make a video about itachi vs jiraya?
PS can you do sound 3 vs every team in the chunn exams
Itachi: "I cherish peace with all my heart. I dont care how many men, women, and children I have to kill to get it"
🤣
That is something Pain would say lol
@@Aleclovito I think it can apply to most villains in Naruto lol
@@ChaotiX1 now that you mention it, you’re right! Lol
Itachi was my favorite character in the series.
To be honest, his character always felt a little scattered to me. It seems like he chose to follow through on extremely violent terrible things when there could have been better options. Maybe that's just me though
A better way to put is, is itachi is the reason we even have a naruto in the first place, can you imagine all the popular cast of kids you grew up with got slaughtered before they got a chance to do anything
That opening intro was dope
It’s interesting to think what might’ve happened had Itachi not done what he’d did
Claiming the “Uchiha is the strongest in the world” is bold considering they are always second to their rivals, and considering they are the only clan that’s about to be extinct lol
Itachi made the worst decision he could in the moment, and only chose from the options given to him by a madman who he should've just killed on the spot.
He cant kill danzo since that would start the uchiha's coup, plus i dont even think he could considering shisui got ambushed and lost his eye and he was stronger than itachi
@@SrMadru he prob could but thats only if were assuming theres no root anbu nearby
Can you do each team and the forest of death versus orchimaru
Where you read Naruto manga in color?
Let's simplify itachis actions, he murdered one group including the innocents among them like the children and his gf for example. He did this in the name of appeasing another group so he could prevent any of their innocents dying. Then when it came to actually killing everyone he was selfish and saved his brother who later became a criminal and defected due to itachis abuse and physiological infliction on his brother. But how will people try to justify Itachi being good morally they'll try to talk about why he did it as if why makes him morally better. Also there's no justification for his abuse of Sasuke at all.
Almost forgot Itachi let orochimaru live during his Akatsuki days. Not to mention he never tried to kill Danzo either. This itachi guy sucks morally.
“Let’s straw man itachis entire character”
@@user-jm9gj9ph6e OP is just someone who doesn't understand what a character without plot armor looks like lol
Agree entirely, he was written as a ruthless, deadly killer but then they changed their minds. He was much better as a merciless assassin than a 'misunderstood older brother'. There was no reason to wipe out a whole clan, just the combatants.
We can blame his Uchiha bloodlust or even let it be explained that the survivors would suffer without the men around so it was a sort of mercy, but in the end the massacre of the Uchiha clan was a real blow to the hidden leaf and could have been enough to encourage an immediate response from enemy villages.
I'm sure he went insane at some point after losing everyone, especially when he talked about taking Sasuke's eyes you can see the insanity coming out.
In the end the most evident driving force of Itachi was power, he sought power for himself (which he obtained greatly) and then when he realised his time was almost up the next best thing was for his brother to obtain the same power. Sasuke would surpass his failures and redeem the Uchiha.
@@obe1withtheforce785 so you're saying the murder of only some of them would be more justifiable? Cause if that's what you're saying, an entire generation of Sasukes (curse of hatred) sound like a bad idea to me.
If ANYONE is to blame for the tragedy, it's Fugaku. He could've stopped the escalation, but he decided to use his own kid as a tool for his own purposes, just like Donzo. Many more people would've died, regardless of anything Itachi, himself, did differently that night.
Also, if Hiruzen really *was* the strongest Hokage to that point, as the early lore stated, why did he not let it happen and just body the best fighters for a victory via demoralization? Him and Minato could've easily disarmed the people in the situation and forced a treaty, but they just let it happen, and you're blaming a 14 year old for a zero-sum game he was forced to play? Not to mention, Donzo walked all over Hiruzen's authority, and Hiruzen did nothing there, either.
Odd you hold Itachi to the standard of someone in the position of Hokage, and the Hokage with the standards of a child. Your argument is just flat out backwards (to me), dawg.
The only reason Itachi stressed the eyes in their fight/made himself look manic over them is because Sasukes a dipsh¡t and didn't know anything about it till after that, cause he was too worried about pleasing daddy orochimaru.
You can call em immoral all you want, but at the end of the day, every character is a trained killer in the grand scheme of the show trying to accomplish their goal: protecting the future of the people they love.
I'm not an Itachi tard, but you're missing a$$loads of nuance, my guy. Same with OP. I mean, age of consent is 16 because you literally cannot conceptualize the weight of your actions until that rough benchmark, so how do you expect a 14 y/o to make a sound moral judgment in a civil, race war he never cared about? Simple - he's gonna protect what HE cares about.
I dig the username, btw.
@@--...--...--... Would you like some fries with that salt? I'm not holding any fictional character accountable for anything, just observing the logic in the anime. Specifically Itachi's.
You say 'he made himself look manic' so he was acting? Among his various talents, he also deserves an Oscar for pretending effectively, to be mentally unhinged. He isn't actually emotionally scarred from as you said having 'to make a sound moral judgement' as a 14 yo?
Contrarily, what makes you equate an average 14 yo mind to that of a super powered elite assassin from a warring feudal nation in a Japanese anime who also happens to technically be part space 👽?
Also yes, I am saying that wiping out just some of them would have been better, specifically the combat age men who were plotting against the hokage. The argument that they are all cursed with hatred that would inevitably lead them to ruin is exactly what caused them to become outcasts in their own village. Tobirama's distrust and segregation is to blame. A more realistic operation would be Itachi heads an assault that wipes out the insurrectionists when they are gathered together, forcing any other militants to surrender and desist. Easy. That's not what the writer's went for. Itachi was a ruthless, deadly, assassin among assassins, who was able to wipe out every/any other Uchiha on his own. Until they added more to the story to make it 'make sense'. There's no moral or logical path that leads to genocide. You don't need to be aged with wisdom to understand that.
Itachi was bonkers and his every ambition flopped. Save hidden leaf? No. Protect Sasuke? No. Price - Mother, father, girlfriend, home and reputation. The progression is he gained mangekyo, susano, totsuka, akatsuki (whose objective was to collect the ultimate chakra weapons) - then obsessing over the eternal mangekyo just so his younger bro could get a power up? His story makes sense up until that point. He is a merciless killer obsessed with power above all else until he is a misunderstood secret hero of the hidden leaf who loved his brother above all else. One viewpoint is based off of ACTIONS, OUTCOMES, the other is based on a couple retroactively inserted plot points and 'hidden sentiment'.
I completely agree. People who crap on Itachi tend to ignore the situation he was in. It's not like Itachi ran around with a smile on his face as he slaughtered his people either.
I personally don't think Itachi would've stood a chance against Fugaku had they actually fought. Fugaku was well composed while Itachi was mentally falling apart. A nerfed Itachi vs Fugaku wouldn't have been a close match IMO.
I blame Hiruzen to be honest, He allowed the likes of Danzo and Orochimaru to wander free and continue their actions which clearly where not for the good of Konoha. Itachi was sadly just another poor soul who had to make a unfair choice due to the actions of Danzo.
He’s a lot like emiya from fate/zero
Who is considered immoral
At least Kiritsugu didn’t want Shirou become like him. Unlike Itachi who Took advantage of Sasuke for guilt felt for massacre.
7:32 l cannot explain to you how much sense this guy is making this shit is prolly spot on
Itachi being « good » was definitely a retcon, so let’s start there. Secondly, if the leaf village wanted to prevent a civil war so bad because they wanted to avoid casualties, why not simply work with the Uchiha to resolves their grievances? Instead, they all but exiled the clan to the outskirts of the village. That’s not even the main point. The leaf village had ONE ninja that could take care of the entire clan in itachi! What civil war would there have actually been? Between all of the Jonin, the 3rd Hokage, and Itachi, any « war » would be settled almost instantly, it will be the fastest war ever. The leaf wouldn’t need more than 5 ninjas to deal with it. Imagine not only itachi, but the 3rd, kakashi, guy, Innashikacho?? How quickly would the Uchiha have admitted defeat? How many more lives could have actually been saved??? That’s what happens when you have crappy writing and a poorly done retcon.
Except it wasn't a retcon at all because there's proof lmao
@@AK-MS27LOT of stuff in itachi's writing between part 1 and 2 itachi does not mesh well together and makes itachi look extremely stupid.
His plan was dumb, make no sense and him being a good guy is 100% a retcon.
@@AK-MS27One example just like that.....
Itachi planned to use koto on sasuke as once as the crow came in contact with his sharingan so that he would be forced to fight for the leaf sake right ?
Then why did he give the crow to naruto instead of using it vs sasuke ? Itachi was a major threat not only to the leaf but to the entire shinobi world too so sasuke would still had wanted to kill itachi under koto influence.
That's literally the point of the illusion, fighting for the leaf and itachi was viewed as a threat, he's a dumbass 😅
I love you itachi
Itachi being the covert good guy was one of the most idiotic retcons in anime/manga history
You didn't understand the foreshadowing*
If you are at a pathway that splits you can - go left (meaning you will feal extreme remorse and people around you will think you are a bad person. )
- go right (meaning you will feal extreme remorse and people around you will think you are a bad person. )
- stop (meaning you will be in extreme regret because you could end up making a slitly less worse outcome people around wont know so you in their eyes
wont be a bad person. )
- go back (the worst solution no one will be happy. )
hes also not not a gary sue, he literally propogates the ideology that sasuke takes as the antagonist at the end of the story
What is that ideology?
@@Umarohh that peace can only be brought about by taking all the hatred onto yourself
@@doodoo5594 didn't Naruto say something similar to that as well? It was when he talk no jutsu'd Kurama into submission, I believe.
@@scrollingdownonlytofindcom2663 yh that was before he’d fully developed, he hadn’t confronted obito yet, but yes after fighting pain naruto did hold that same ideology for a while, just not to the same extent as sasuke
Can't believe even in this day when everyone is so educated and literate, we would struggle to justify child murder and torture.
Danzo had just stolen Shisui's unused left eye for himself a day before and knew abou his capabilities, he also was shown to use it behind cover on the summit.
Kind of lame but considering it's less like control and more like a extremely influential and overwhelming suggestion, that you actually 100% believe that you're acting of your own free will, it makes sense in a context of Itachi allowing others to dictate their options for his brilliant mind in an eminent, alarming situation. He was always shown to be far more decisive, coldly analytical and confident in his own actions prior and after the massacre, even though they still concerned people he emotionally cared about, so it makes sense that not only would he regret his part, but also understanding later that his hands were tied before he even knew it.
Good question you ask yourself is how come itachi couldn’t get rid of danzo
Maybe at time he wasn’t skilled enough so he had to obey danzo but I’m surprised the jonin to Kage level uchihas didn’t get rid of danzo when they had the chance
Getting rid of Danzo wouldn't help Itachi in anyway though like at best it would bring Itachi some kind of satisfaction but at worst The third Hokage gets angry about it
@@SRVaris I hear you it’s a good thought I had and lord third getting angry about danzo getting killed even though he been on slick backstabbing ways behind lord third and would still be forgiven
Which why lord third had lord fourth be homage cuz he was getting old on making decisions on who to keep in circle
Lord fourth would’ve made sure danzo be gone if he knew about him sooner
Killing Danzo would weaken the hidden leaf village, something Itachi wouldn't want.
There's a lot of bad things that the foundation does, but there's also good things they do to help protect the village and as a former Anbu Itachi is aware of this.
Video idea: how Haku would’ve done in the chunin exams
Awesome
One of the things I never understood is why he slaughtered literally everyone. One of his main points to Danzo for leaving sasuke alive was that he posed no threat, he was just a child. And the same could be said for other children as well. Not to mention there’d obviously be some newborn uchia babies or just babies in general that are uchia. What’s the point in slaughtering literal babies… or even the elderly whats the point they pose no threat why slaughter them as well.
I’d say why not the most notable thing would have been to just take out the notable fighters, and the kids who had the most potential based off acandmey scores, test scores, etc. everyone else though just let them live. Not all uchia are super mega strong ninja those ones really died for no reason. And the ones who were ( like the elderly ) are old they’d pose no threat. I just don’t see why literally every last uchia had to die.
Also itachi did this to prevent a coupe. A group of academy aged children with ( at most ) 2 tomoe sharingons aren’t posing a threat to almost anyone. I’d also like to mention kakahsi himself stated the byakugon is superior to the sharingon ( he said it during the preliminary fights of the chunin exams in the manga) so again I don’t see the point. If again my point just take out the kids who showed the most potential. Late bloomers are rare among uchia kind ( the only one being obito) so they’d have nothing to worry about when they’d grow up.
In light novels it was explained that Obito killed children while Itachi took care of all fighters
@@sullea3267 I forgot about that, though kishimoto seemingly for no reason added obito into the equation. Like itachi could have wiped them out on his own. Adding obito never made any sense to me his presence doesn’t change anything at all. Either way all the uchia would have died.
@@0vern9K the reason Obito was needed was cause in the book Itachi believed Fugaku would be to much of a challenge for him so he seeked out the help of Obito. It was also so he could make the deal with Obito to not have Obito go after Sasuke until he died
@@sullea3267 It Doesn’t really make a difference for itachi since he asked obito to kill those children
My guess is in the same way Sasuke's hate natured him for revenge. Saduke being alive and allowed to grow was a massive problem already. I imagine more would be worse
Yea new vid
All I know is Konohagakure has a really lame judicial system.
Can you do a video on Madara´s plan and actions? He was the best villain in the show - consistent with his plan, and intelligent AF
The absolute best thing he could have done IMO was:
1. Kill only the adult males/coup members of the Uchiha
2. Kill Danzo if he moves to kill the rest of the clan
No coup, no clan genocide. I kind of don't buy that a war would start due to this. No one attacked the hidden mist when their coup happened
It makes sense for people to care more about their family and friends than a village how does that make the uchiha evil
What if the Third Hokage just made/announced plans to make Itachi the next Hokage? Would that stop the coup and ease tension with the Uchia clan? Also I know there’s a process for deciding Hokage and a current Hokage can’t just point at someone and make them the next Hokage (Tobirama aside but maybe those were just different times😬) but it’s not like Itachi wasn’t going to be qualified enough for the job anyway.
The same Uchiha clan that literally hated Itachi and wanted to put him jail every time he talked? Literally every time Itachi opens his mouth all he does is garner hatred from the clan.
@@crunkalac They wanted to arrest him because they assumed he killed Shisui. And they didn’t hate him every time he opened his mouth, some members felt like he was sympathizing with the village over his clan. The point of the coup was overcome the unfair treatment placed on the Uchia after the nine tails attack. They wouldn’t even negotiate with the third Hokage. They wanted to overthrow the local government, but putting an Uchia (and the clan leaders child prodigy at that) in the Hokage seat could be enough to convince the clan not to rebel.
This is all hypothetical obviously, but I am saying there’s a chance it could work… even if he wasn’t like 4 Uchia guys favorite person
@@JT-mb6rr Point being is they thought of Itachi as a traitor more than an Uchiha clan member, making him the Hokage would barely have any effect
Damn bro this was deep af I loved it. U think u can do one for Madara
🔥 Idea
what do you want me to talk about exactly for Madara?
@@New_Horizons I really can’t even think but how u did this is excellent. Madara just my fav character
@@newman9022 Yes, agree
lol
Itachi is not naruto his not the protagonist. Naruto can choose save his village and save his friend at the same time becase he said so and his motto.
Itachi has 2 options and 1 choise. Thats it. In the novel is much more clear yet than the manga and the show.
Yes he was capable of doing what he did. Some people would never do it. But who wouldnt do the dirty stuff would regret becase of the consequences
@XxneveragainxX yeah i like it although is very shonen for me, i would prefer the adult way of exploring that as it was with itachi but yeah, thats just naruto that can do that. I do dig talk no jutsu that naruto kid i belive in him hehe
Tbh I like you more than I like Swagkage or Seth
Loved it, honestly I never thought of itachi as moral as what is the difference of following your clan or village even though both are In the wrong.
The decision comes down to the lesser evil in this case killing your clan would prevent a world war from breaking out but I wish the hidden leafs actions could be addressed and those two elders that are somehow still alive in boruto would finally die!
Its not about that at all. Itachi is a pacifist. Uchihas are starting a war. Itachi can prevent the war and save as many lives as possible by stopping the Uchiha so thats what he does. The village were scared of the clan and did not trust them. This is not justification to start a massive war especially as a pacifist like Itachi.
@@crunkalac
LOL Actually according to Itachi, if minority wants to riot about their discrimination, the correct path would be gen*c*de-ing them. K- the minority to save the majority. That's a f-ed up approach. Kishimoto really likes to support gen*c*de of minority & history negationism of that gen*c*de. After all, he's a right-winger Japan & obviously supporting Japan pretending Nanking Massacre never exist.
The whole problem comes in because itatchi didn’t want his clan name slandered on top of all of that, he wanted the coupe to be a secret, which forced him to leave the village.
He wanted Sasuke stronger because he knew everyone and the mama was gonna come after him after he was going to be the new name of the Uchiha and he needed to be a fine example
I never got how Kishimoto thought this out. Why would you kill all the Uchiha when all it would take is one yamanaka and another Uchiha with their sharingan on to have all the evidence they would need that the Uchiha were planning a coup’ then go from there. Have Itachi and your best sharingan counter unit Anbu go in place seals on the Uchiha that seal or drain their chakra then take away those who were planning it. Or have shusui use his genjutsu to make fugaku loyal to the leaf. It just feels like there were way to many easier options than a clan famicide
And The Uchiha will just allow this no they wouldn't they would fight back
@@SRVaris fought back against what? It’s the same as a no knock warrant. They are ninja it wouldn’t be too hard to go in stealthy and subdue the ones that were planning this. Two teenagers took out the whole clan why would you think a group of Anbu couldnt apprehend the ones who were planning the coup.
@@PlayerJay425 Do you think the Uchiha just don't have guards they would notice a large amount of Anbu trying to enter the compound and warn the others
A Group of Anbu couldn't do what you are describing also sealing chakra isn't something you can just do its likely a Ritual like the Evil Sealing Method(the thing Kakashi used to seal the curse mark think about that Kakashi the Student of the best seal master needed a ritual to seal away the Curse mark now imagine the process of sealing away someones chakra)
Also Shisui Tried to use his genjutsu on Fugaku but Danzo stopped it
@@SRVaris who said it had to be a large amount of ppl, two ppl took out the whole clan itachi and 2 or 3 more ppl shouldn’t be a problem when it’s only one more person than originally. There are seals for draining chakra so a seal for sealing it off or stoping it’s usage is more then likely do able or you know have one of the Anbu be a hyuuga and gentle fist the path way to their eyes. Or have it be an Aburame and have them poison the ones then capture them. The sealing is really just to stop them from using whatever hacks their few mangekyos might have. If they take our fugaku first there’s an increased chance the rest would give up if he’s supposed to be the strongest one. Danzo is a problem solely because Sarutobi was too soft on him I think he wanted to kill all the Uchiha period coup be damned.
@@PlayerJay425 2 people who were within the top 5 strongest people on the planet at the moment one of them being the number 1(who they wouldn't have)
And Itachi was unsure of actually defeating Fugaku so that can't even be counted on Fugaku was a hokage candidate he isn't going to go down without a fight which would draw a lot of attention
Also your forgetting because Danzo wanted the clan slaughtered he might send a root agent to warn the Uchiha before that happened or a group of agents to take the Anbu group out
Another thing what happens after this after the news of the coup The Uchiha clan would be universally hated and would be thought of as no good traitors and would cement the Uchiha as the people who orchestrated the nine tails attack think of there treatment after that how terrible that would be and how those Uchiha would react to that you now have a bunch of Uchiha(With at minimum 2 tome sharingans) who are pissed off
It is only my conjecture but if Itachi and Shishui could have teamed up and assassinated Danzo and his minions first and kill all warmonger elders of the Uchiha clan, then cooperated with Hiruzen to have peace talks.
Ya know…..IfSasuke had MS then him and Itachi could’ve just traded eyes to let them both have EMS
When he said he should’ve been honest with sasuke and find a peaceful way…nah dawg Danzo would’ve fuck shit up and the 2 elders don’t have brain so they’ll just stick with danzo and hiruzen
His heart was in the right place, but his actions were immoral.
Not really do you think minato, naruto, or hiruzen would kill civilians? Women and children? His own mother?
@@DrooledOn hiruzen knew itachi was going to do it and was ok with it/let it happen.
@@thesoupman8775 no he didn’t know it was going to happen, he was surprised when he reported to him…
@@DrooledOn oh shit you're right. My bad
@@DrooledOn Minato is a monster, he would slit your throat before you even knew he was around.
I’d let all 5 go instantly without even thinking about it lol. Who why would I steer a trolley into one person just because there’s more on the other. One event you essentially had no control over, the other it was your actions and not the natural course of things. There’s no telling if those five people were even worth the one.
Morality in world of naruto is carzy it not a simple white and black but moral gray
Ya Itachi even says to Naruto that what he did wasn't the right option but that's what I loved about that moment in the novel where you can understand that from Itachi's prospective he had no choice but after a while you come to other answers on how he could have done it better but you realize with everything one his mind at the time and limited time to think in that moment it seemed smart and moral but had he had more time to think and someone to confide in probably could have found another way
Personally I don’t like itachi I know that this comment will get a lot of hate but I just don’t like him reasoning being is itachi murdered his intire family I know that it was for his brother but he tamitized his own brother by thinking that this was just for him to get power and not only that he didn’t even explain why he then made his brother kill him that’s even more tramitizing.
Itachi did explain that...Sasuke needs to kill him in order to gain MS. Kind of saves the world later on.
@@crunkalac yeah that doesn’t really matter he still tramitized sasuke 2 times
@@BerxationCrew Saving the world doesnt matter okay bud
@@crunkalac what?
Itachi didn’t know that sasuke would save the world and sasuke didn’t naruto did majority of the work sasuke only arrived mid-fight.
Itachi had a pet shark and if you know anything about keeping great whites in containment, that’s all you need to know about itachi
Finally someone is gonna expose itachi as a immoral hypocrite 😈
well how did that go
Does morality even exist if free will is just an illusion?
Hmm...
Interesting...
The example...
Truth is he was retconned into incoherence
You present three choices. Support the village, support the Uchiha, or do nothing. But that's false. There are many different choices. And every choice is filled with further nuance.
Confront Fugaku, and try and talk him down. Did we even see a scene of Itachi attempting such?
Kill Fugaku.
Threaten both factions that you'll support the other. And so try and convince both that a violent solution is too risky.
Kill the Uchiha, but not ALL the Uchiha. Despite what is said, I refuse to believe that Sasuke was actually the only one who didn't know. Wasn't there anybody even younger then him?
Try to convince the Uchiha clan to simply leave the leaf village.
Assassinate Hiruzen yourself. Take all the blame for it and still become a missing ninja. Fugaku might just become the next Hogake naturally.
Undoubtedly there are other things Itachi could have tried. What he ended up choosing was, to put it bluntly, inexcusable. As Itachi plainly isn't an evil man, the only conclusion I come to is that he is a fool.
He already tried/did most of the things you said. You have to read the light novel.
1. He talked to the uchiha countless times, but there hatred towards the village was too much to change there mind, hence the reason why they came up with the plan to use kotoamatsukami on Fugaku.
2. Also, he did end up killing fugaku, but he killed everybody else because many uchiha would bear hatred that will cause even greater deaths in the future. You already got Madara, shisui, Obito, Itachi, and Sasuke. Having more people of their caliber that bear hatred towards the leaf or want to conquer the world would be terrible.
3. Assassinating Hiruzen is one of the dumbest choices ever. Danzo would end up becoming hokage, and the elders would back him up. This is the same danzo who destroyed Itachi and Shisui’s peaceful plan to help the uchiha and leaf make amends.
I’d recommend reading the light novel, you’d find out a lot more
@@fvrloading4324 You sound like Tobirama. That the Uchiha clan is just doomed to always fall to hatred.
Counter example, Didn't Itachi have a girlfriend in the novels? Was she also a leaf village hating nutjob?
What makes you think Danzo would become Hogake? He wasn't a consideration when the fourth Hogake was about to be chosen. The choices were Orochimaru, Minato, or Fugaku. The fire daimyo woudn't pick Danzo unless he is placed under a genjutsu.
@@najex1
1. Itachi didn’t have a girlfriend in the novel. Izumi was the person who fell in love with Itachi, but he put his feeling aside and separated himself from her because he had to achieve his ultimate goal of becoming the strongest shinobi in the world to end all conflict. During the massacre, he gave Izumi what she wanted, a peaceful life with him where she lived to 80 and had kids with Itachi. He did understand her feelings, and did his best to fulfill them. That’s why before she died, she told Itachi “Thank you.”
2. Minato was already dead. Orochimaru was no longer in the village around the time of the massacre. Nobody wanted the Uchiha in charge of things, hence the the reason why Danzo would be the next choice, just like he was during the 5 kage summit.
3. I don’t sound like tobirama because Itachi already tried other ways, which were ruined. The only option left was a massacre of either the leaf or the Uchiha. If he chose the leaf instead, the neighboring villages would take advantage of the situation and that would cause even more bloodshed than massacring the Uchiha. He simply just chose the option with the least amount of casualties, after trying and failing all of his peaceful attempts.
The exact relation between itachi and Izumi is besides the point. What matters was whether she too was a leaf hating nutjob that had to die. She wasn't. I was giving an example of people besides Sasuke that didn't need to die.
I'm not saying killing Hiruzen was a good choice. I was just shooting example. A true hero would place himself between the clan and the leaf village. Only allowing the two to come to blows over his own dead body. That's what I feel Naruto would do, and it will always be the choice I'll respect the most. Even if there is a chance you'll lose everything in the end. Never give up on finding a way out of the no-win-scenario.
I've skimmed that novel, and even in the end, it was clear Fugake didn't know for certain that Itachi would side against the clan. It's clear Itachi never gave Fugake a clear statement that no, he will not support this idiocy. And considering that Fugake's big plan relied on Itachi helping, that might have changed things.
@@najex1 You make good points. The Naruto way is another choice he could’ve made. But personally I think he made the right decision. Also, that is your definition that a hero should be like “Naruto” and never give up in a no win scenario. Itachi isn’t Naruto and chose what he thought was best at 14 years old. To the leaf, he was a hero. To the Uchiha, he wasn’t. It’s subjective. The Naruto way wouldn’t have worked regardless anyway. A 14 year old boy is not stopping both the leaf and Uchiha by himself, especially since shisui is dead.
Also, the “Naruto never giving up in no win situations,” failed against pain. He only succeeded because the nine tails came out after he lost control when pain showed him that his morals were only subjectively right. Itachi doesn’t have a trump card like that, he would’ve just lost and a war would’ve broken out regardless. Choosing the option with the least amount of casualties after every peaceful attempt failed has a way higher chance of success rather than choosing the bizarre option of using all of your might to stop both the Leaf(the literally strongest village), and the Uchiha, one of the strongest clans as a 14 year old by himself with no help. He made the right choice in my eyes.
I'm going to shoot itachi some bail on the doubling down on Sasuke because time isn't enough for what happened. Killing your own family had to be extremely traumatic. Time without therapy I'd negligible help in healing at best. I also think part of making Sasuke seek power was also so the leaf had a powerful asset I feel like that was said or implied but I cant remember so I could be wrong
I don't blame Itachi, Itachi murdered his own clan due to pressure from grown adults and the issues they created first. Danzo and the fact Hiruzen left him to fester his disgusting schemes can often be found to be the root for most of the worst things of Konoha. Danzo and I even dare say Orochimaru being allowed to continue their plans and never stopped by Hiruzen is the biggest flaw and cause for a lot of the issues.
We oftentimes forget Itachi was like 13 at the time. Prodigy or not, that's still a little kid
@@jaredgreathouse3672 exactly, though adult Itachi's actions later on though I will say harder to justify. Like his attempt of kidnapping Naruto or trying to get Sasuke to kill Naruto.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD I mean, people have argued he didn't wanna capture Naruto, you know
@@jaredgreathouse3672 Yet if Jiraya had not intervened it would have happened.
Danzo and Orochimaru both instrumental in stopping the end of the world later on though. It was Danzo that came up with the idea of the shinobi alliance, told the world Madara was back and told the villages the Akatsuki's goal in capturing the tailed beasts. Not to mention preventing the collapse of Konoha which Konoha is pretty much the only reason the Shinobi alliance had any chance in winning. It was Orochimaru's knowledge that enable the Shinobi alliance to even have a fighting chance at all.
akatsuki free for all?
Itachi did NOT kill the kids, obito did
Fun fact: Obito Was actually the one who killed the Women & Children During the Massacre. Itachi wanted to Do it and actually told him he would. but tobi insisted that he do it instead that way he won't have all that on his Concious. I forgot exactly Where I read that from but yeah. Great Video my boy. Itachi Is Great. Easily top 5 characters in the show
Think the uchiha would’ve been wiped either way but yea they would’ve been weak after an got attacked
No one ever said he was moral.
Cool
IF itachi really thought things out, maybe he could have realized that simply killing his father fugaku, and possibly shisui, that would have completely stopped the uchiha rebellion in it's tracks, having the strongest 3, and possibly only mangekyo users aside from "madara" out of the picture, the uchihas would stand no chance, obito would still get stomped by minato resulting in the uchihas running back home.
Tbh thats the same thing as putting fugaku under kotoamatsukami, if anything the uchiha were going to do the coup regardless, with fugaku dead they would target the leaf higher ups and itachi
If Minato fought Obito and Kurama at the same time, he would lose
@@UnknownUser-iy7yb @Nightmare X dude you don't understand. without any magekyo users minato could incapicitate the entire uchicha clan within seconds. Minato and the 3rd hokage not to mention jiriyah could easily beat 10000 plain sharingan users it's not even a question.
@@joseole1117 true but jiraiya already left the village at this point but i do agree if he thought things out they could’ve improvised and done something else
@@UnknownUser-iy7yb yeah not to mention kakashi and danzo would have tipped the scales undoublty far in the leaf villages favor, even quickly and discreetly enough that no other village would notice.
Family always comes first, f itachi
just putting it out there ... Obito and Itachi both killed the Uchihas ...Itachi killed the men and Obito killed the woman and children
There’s footage of itachi cutting down women
@@implexitykyuubi yeah but the novels wrote how Itachi mainly targeted the police force and men while Obito the Women and children + elderly because Obito said Itachi wouldn't be able to handle it and might go insane
I think the fact that Itachi has made what a lot of people consider mistakes and acted in either morally ambiguous or outright immoral ways is what makes his character so compelling. You have to remember, he was only 14 when he was forced to wipe out his entire clan. As brilliant as he was for his age, you just can’t expect a kid like him to perfectly understand how to prevent a rebellion.
If you believe the Uchiha Clan Massacre to be immoral, I think it’s much more reasonable to put the blame on the Hidden Leaf Elders. They’re supposed to be the wisest and most experienced shinobi in the village, so it makes sense to place more of the responsibility of stopping a rebellion on them than a 14 year old kid.
Some people argue that Itachi’s morally questionable actions he took, between the Uchiha massacre and the way he handled Sasuke’s development, make his character more interesting. He admits to Sasuke that he made mistakes with him and is part of the reason Sasuke became a criminal. Itachi’s heart was in the right place and he was only doing what he thought would be the most beneficial at the time.
Perfect characters really aren’t all that interesting, and Itachi’s imperfections are part of what make him a holistically interesting character.
There was no easy fix all strategy to prevent the coup attempt. They choose the 14 year old Uchiha to do it because he was the best guy to do it by minimalizing casualties on their side. Not to mention the village was under the impression this is the Uchiha's second coup attempt and because of how soft Hiruzen was by letting them off the hook after Minato's death...the 2nd one is around the corner. Now they're going to do it Danzo's way and prevent that tragedy from ever happening again. The real blame is Obito unleashing the Kyubi on Konoha to kill Minato framing his clan and then participating in their slaughter afterwards. What a sick bastard. If the village knew it was only Obito acting alone none of this even happens.
I dont care what he did, his moral was impecable, he cared more about others than about himself and took the better course of action preventing the most deaths while saving his brother and being under blackmail, i mean, they basically told him that either he murders most of his clan or they kill all off them after a deadly civil war
Daamn 😂😂😂i think you're the one who he would kill first 😂
People try and say Itachi was just a kid yet he was an elite level ninja and considered a genius when he killed his clan. So that’s irrelevant. Itachi was fully capable of assessing the situation and chose GENOCIDE as the answer. The fact the writer tries to describe him as a pacifist just FURTHER let’s me know Kishimoto does not know how to write and doesn’t know what he’s writing, he’s just doing anything to make the character seem more sympathetic.
Complete BS. Itachi was under genjutsu and his decision was not his. This was never stated but it would be what I would do if I was Danzo to guarantee success which is in his character. Killing off whole clan to protect Konoha is complete BS. Sparing Sasuke despite such strong genjustsu makes more sense to show off his love for him. Its pretty much obvious. How can this be missed? O_o
I’ve seen people try and claim itachi did the right even tho he was a mere child however itachi at this age was still a prodigy and relative genius I think itachi was right in the claim that the uchiha rebellion would have done nothing but make matters even worse and create a whole series of murders and war. Anbu or not I think itachi should have absolutely fought for his people to exchange and entire culture for your brothers safety is quite sweet in my eyes that doesn’t changed the fact you pretty much helped created one of the most bloody and traumatizing events in yours and sasukes life. I’ve seen people say itachi is the best big brother that truly loved his brother when even tho all this was to make sasukes eyes and resolve strong enough to further protect him in future endeavors, a parting gift to his brother as he had received once himself its extreme to say such things when most of his race being wiped he had part in.
Also something I found funny is that I doudt itachi saw all this shit coming like sasuke eventually wanting his eyes. Now what if sasuke flat out rejected being like his brother and never learned the truth, we would be screwed by a war as well sasuke hating itachi forever. Hell I find it funny how sasukes eye transplant could have been the perfect time to kill him and be done with it but ya know
Itachi is the one who told Sasuke about how to obtain the EMS, and it's definitely something he wanted Sasuke to do.
@@ChrisTheDreamchaser true but imagine if he just sat here and was like nah - 😂