Mercedes-Benz C300e hybrid 2021 review - Do the sums add up for Merc's uber PHEV? / Electrifying
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Mercedes has been a player in the plug-in hybrid (PHEV) market for some years now with both petrols and, rather unusually, diesels. They've made some very impressive PHEVs and they're the best of both worlds for some people, while others can't understand the whole PHEV thing.
The new Mercedes-Benz C-Class comes as a PHEV - it manages up to 60 miles of pure-electric running and returns around 400mpg on the claimed testing cycle. Is it one of Merc's hits? Tom Ford finds out.
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For those intersted, I have one like this in estate form since may. It's a great car. I charge it every day at home with an 11KW charger and filled it up with fuel only a few times since
I bought it. My combined average is about 80km/liter. In summertime and not on highway, I can do 104 km /charge, in wintertime it decreases to about 60 to 70 km, depending on the weather. When freezing, you need a lot of energy to heat your car, of course. I bought it primarely for tax reasons, but i really like it. I go almost full electric, but still have my long range when I need it. Gives me some assurance.
hi, still the electric range the same ? or decrased with time ? still satisfied with the car ?
@@jayceontalylor4244 If battery capacity loss in general for EVs is about 10% in 7 to 10 years then I don't think this question is very much warranted on a car that's only been out (with this size battery) for one year.
Had an XC40 PHEV (realistic 20 mile range) which was frustrating and not worth the effort. Currently have a Golf PHEV (realistic 35 mile range) which is ALMOST enough. The realistic 60 miles pure electric range of the C300e is enough for most of us on a daily basis AND it works for holidays and high speed journeys too. Brilliant.
I have been driving my A250e for nearly a year. fueled 2 times.
This is exactly the video I need. .. Great job!
Good point on the sweet point of plug in hybrids versus full electric, 100km electric brings it to the next level!
For me this works. I have a CLA 250e… I get about 45miles pure electric and it gets me to and from work everyday on pure electric. I have a charge point at home but the charging network where I live is poor so I’m glad of the petrol engine too if I fancy a day trip further out.
I have an old PHEV and your description sums it up perfectly. My lifetime span usage of gasoline is just 1.8l per 100km which increases when doing long trips. For daily commute it is 95% electric. That is just a 16kwh battery limited to 11 kwh. Quite happy with it. Fast charging is something I do not have in this car nor do I care for with a battery this size. The car charges during late evening to not put too much pressure on the power grid. Fast charging depletes battery life, it is much better to charge slowly if possible. Also it costs less to have installed regular 220V socket near your parking space than a fancy charger. Even for people that have teslas with 85 kwh batteries, the reality of the fact is that a person on his daily commute does not drive 200 or 300 kms. You drive 60 to 90 km probably. So there is no need for fast charging if you have a socket right next to your car parking spot. If you have full electric car like a desla, you definitely need to do fast charging after long trips, but not for your get back from work routine. So zeah the PHEVs are really perfect if the battery thy come with is big enough for you daily routine. If not, well they still provide fuel saving but yeah it is frustating running out of battery on small trip. For me winter is frustrating since my battery is not big enough for winter temperatures with heating, there i do a trip 75% electric and rest gasoline.
Possibly this is the pinnacle of PHEV development before the oily bits get dumped completely. I have an EQC, so I guess I have made that transition already. The problem with PHEV’s in the UK is not the technology or the use-case logic, but the company car tax system - or specifically fuel benefit. So people get a PHEV as a company car because it has a lower company car tax rate (6-10% vs. 20%+), but then never charge it up with electricity because they also have fuel benefit - which means beyond the benefit-in-kind tax hit, it personally costs them nothing to fill it with petrol or diesel (because this is paid for by their company) but it does cost them personally to charge it up with electricity, and they still have to pay the tax for the fuel benefit - so why would you bother charging it up?
Some company car users have to claim their fuel back via the pence per mile system (look up HMRC Advisory Fuel rates). They kind of have to plug it in or otherwise they'll will be out of pocket because the car won't do enough MPG.
Maybe if they pair it up with solar panel incentives for businesses or something?
What's worse is that company car drivers typically drive large motorway miles at high speeds, whereas PHEVs and EVs are better suited to cities. In cases where diesels are being switched for petrol PHEVs, overall emissions are likely higher afterwards. It just seems a shame to me that diesel PHEVs like the V60 dual engine didn't become as popular.
@@bobandbobandbob6285that’s not completely true. At motorway speeds (sub 80), the electric motor does the driving. The engine charges the battery enough for driving. Which is very efficient compared to a straight petrol. My Golf GTE sits at about 1500 rpm at 70 and the electric motor just nudges it along.
So your argument is from a company car perspective only..... ok then.
I’d love if the upcoming GLC comes as a PHEV instant lease for me.
I think here in the states particularly in the southwest, this car is perfect. E range for work but if I want to go from AZ to CA then this car is perfect.
Rapid charging for a phev with double the range of a normal one makes it massively more usable but I wonder what range they could give it with all the oily bits removed
It would be an interesting experiment.
What is the MPG or MPL in just the hybrid mode once the battery is out of charge?
Is this available only in the Europe? Haven't seen in US, all dealerships say c300 22 is not PHEV :(
Can we make a phev installation in an existing diesel c220 2012 model?
This looks to be a wonderful car.
Think this sort of range is well on the way to the sweetspot of 100 miles of electric range backed up by an engine I'd be looking at for an phev. Let's hope it's cheap enough in 4/5 years to buy as current phev alternatives to my current car were twice as much when I was looking to buy.
Will it be available in the US?
I am wondering what mileage does it give in hybrid mode??
As a former long range company cars driver I can see the benefit of this. Leave in the morning with a optimistic 60 miles range (ish). Do your stuff when you stop at a horrible service station get another 60 miles while you get your Greg’s pasty or send that crappy email. Shoot along with another charge in the bag. Charger broke again (Ecotricity) no problem just crack on.
Actual factual day in the life of a company car driver
In order to address your question, we need the price to evaluate - now much more than a C200?
I quite like it and was in fact looking at the very same model this morning :-) That said, I'd appreciate a 4matic version and for that I'll probably be better off waiting for Merc to unveil their new GLC (due to the boot size etc). That one will get the same dash as the C-class, will be longer than the current GLC and should also come as a hybrid from the get-go.
And cost another £15k on top of c class
Really good bridge technology until the charging network is fully extended.
PHEV like this is good, hope more OEMs will do the same. For example new T7 Multivan should have bigger battery pack to give it around 80 km of electric range (real range), but without increasing the price, which is high, very high.
It’s € 65000 in the Netherlands. That’s quite a bit. It drives great, but how reliable is it?
We need a running cost video of this car
When Plaid?
The perfect car at the moment, unfortunately it costs a fortune! Most journeys are less than 60 miles so perfect electric but with the safety net of petrol.
Very nice. I think the point will be if the petrol engine can get used regularly. It's not just about finding out that most driving can be done in EV mode, but hopefully not finding out that the petrol has degraded whilst sitting too long between fill-ups. Does the manual for this specify anything about that, such as always using E5, or driving until the fuel warning light comes on at least, say, once every month or two, or keeping a minimum amount of fuel on board and only sticking a tankful in right before using it on a long journey? Just a thought.. 🤔
In my i3 range extender the tank is pressure sealed. But it’s thought best to top it off so no moisture messes with the mix. Burning off the fuel every 6 months is no problem. Just turn the extender on for a long ish trip 70 miles plus. This could be a issue if you have 16 gallons of fuel though.
@@jaybenny7719 Thanks - good information. I know that regular/classic cars that do limited mileage have a real problem with ethanol, and there is even 99 octane "storage fuel" that has no ethanol in it, but is capable of being kept in a tank for maybe 3yrs. Pressure-sealed systems get around that, as you say. 👍
Most phevs at least Toyota reminds you. I think petrol has a 6 month lifespan
Golf GTE is also pressure sealed.
I keep about 5 to 10 litres in my tank, dont want to lug heavy petrol about. Fast charging away from home is a joke, the price they charge for electricity. Cheaper to run on petrol.
I just part exchanged my phev that I purchased in May (used car prices, made a profit) for a full electric.
While I convinced myself that the phev was the perfect choice for my needs, I now realise I should have just gone electric straight away. No more getting annoyed that I ran out of electrons and the dinosaur juice engine has started up.
I'm betting you're now not so happy anymore with that choice when doing long trips.
Well done Sir. Great presentation and explanation of this fantastic motor.
I was confused which car to get for up to £30k budget
Options
1.Kia e niro - looks horrible, cheap feel inside
2.Tesla model 3 - too spartan, build quality issues, not adjustable regen, no free rolling
As you said this is the best of both worlds. Efficient enough, High quality combined with great performance. For me is a winner.
Once my crypto investments mature such as Hex, Hedron and Icosa will take some profit and surprise myself with this beauty.
More OEM should increase the battery capacity on PHEV's to a least 30 to 40 kw but welldone Merc for pushing the envelope on PHEV.
Nice car. A good mid-step in transition from petrol only to 100% electric car.
Well Tom the colour is diabolical but the range is fantastic if it measures over a long period (3 years) but I am looking at monthly leasing an EV thru ONTO - so not really of an interest to me as monthly costs would be outside my purse range.
Unfortunately this seems to be the perfect car. We have gone full electric (Kia E niro) and it is a too often a hassle when driving sponteneous or longrange. Sure their might be recharging in theory but with cues and recharging times (not to speak of broken chargers) are added in its not nice. Add to that a fully loaded car plus cold weather and your EV seems more like a around the city car....This on the other hand could do 60-70% of our day to day driving meaning emissions will be very small.
Can you drive at motorway speeds on just electric power?
Yes top electric only speed is about 90mph
I agree with the commentators in the video that this plug in hybrid might be a great choice for someone like me that does a mix of driving. We commute in town (often less than 60miles) but we also frequently drive 6hrs to our 2nd home.
I would take the wagon or estate in Hybrid but it appears Merc will not sell the C300e in Canada. Bummer
Would love to go electric or have a PHEV. However they're still too expensive.
Perfect car for me if in estate form. UK price?
To save you 3 seconds googling it ..... about 55 grand new in estate form
Well how much is it then ??????????
+£40,000 so takes a big hit in terms of car tax for first five years. Better for private owners to go full electric and pay no car tax. The car is mostly appealing to company car users who get tax benefits. Shame I'd buy one otherwise.
ma man rockin the same name as Tom Ford .... sheesh
Well... About PHEVs being worth it. I did some calculations about the battery of the 2016 C350e for example. It turns out, that for my country (Norway, where electricity is fully renewable and dirt cheap), you would save about $7100 of petrol costs throughout the life of the battery. Assuming it lasts 2000 full cycle equivalents. But I've heard anything from £15 000 to $5000 for a battery replacement from MB. However, the calculated number, was not accounting for the considerably lower efficiency or capacity per discharge that the batteries have when cold. And then there's the considerably more expensive electricity in the UK than here. So I kinda think that the savings over the lifetime of the battery may actually be considerably lower than the cost of replacing the batteries! So in reality it's not more economical to run actually. All you get is some extra performance, which is what you pay extra for over the non-hybrid when buying the car itself. So they might as well have offered a larger petrol engine, at least in the UK where electricity is produced with fossil fuels anyways. But it just feels "off" that the running costs of a PHEV is actually higher than a normal petrol, unless MB and others can get the replacement cost per kWh considerably down from where it is now. Which I think they could with a proper economy of scale. For the 6.5 kWh unit in the C350e, cost of acquisition for MB would in 2023 be 1k or something along those lines. And then there would be margins, transport and installation cost on top. But they should hopefully be able to make it lower than the roughly £1k/kWh they take now, if they want it to beat the pure petrol version on both performance AND actual running costs.
Plug-ins are a quarter step and might be nice for a very few or those looking for a used car but an all electric is the only way to go for a new car.
In some countries ev infrastructure is bad and phev is the only way to lower your emissions
In short, PHEVs only make sense to me if the implementation is smart. Something I'm not so sure of for this, where the heavy batteries are lying this far of the ground above the rear axle. But it seems more ok on something like an audi A3 e-tron PHEV, where they're under the rear seats (without compromising to a torsion bar rear suspension like the A-class PHEV does), or a Volvo V60, where it lies in the drive shaft tunnel which is free to use for the FWD PHEV version. AND, even moreso, it only makes sense if the replacement cost of the battery is reasonably low! As the life of the petrol car is 20++ years, while the battery is maybe 8-10 years or something. If those things are the case, then I'm all for it.
I would kill to be able to buy this car in the U.S. So far, Mercedes hasn't said when or if it will come to North America.
"... as long as they make the commitment to plugging it in regularly..."
Yep - that's the crux of it...
Trouble is - and I'm sorry for sounding pessimistic about this - delighted to gain the BIK tax advantages of such a car, the 'typical' driver of this will be a senior executive / company rep, pounding the length & breadth of the UK's motorway network.
Only, since I used to be one of them, in my experience, such people are either too time-critical or simply 'not bothered' to be charging the car up regularly, rapid-capability or not.
They'll just do what they've always done - pull in to the most convenient petrol station on route to their next meeting, fill up on the company charge card and just haul that 25kWh battery around as dead-weight, crucifying the petrol engine's mpg.
I genuinely think that, in years to come, climate boffins will look back at PHEVs as being as damaging to the environment as the Government-tax-incentive-promoted switch from petrol to diesel engined company cars back in the 80s 😞
Does anyone know if rear wheal traction is a problem for this car? As the car is 2000 kg and 4MATIC version + with plug in not available, how's the handling on bad roads?
I know someone who has a plug in hybrid, they never bothered having the charger put in at home, so literally drive about with a huge flat battery pack and still spend £1.40 a litre of fuel. Makes no sense at all.
Sadly for a lot of company car users it makes a lot of sense if they also get fuel benefit with their car - so filling up with petrol/derv is paid for by their company, but charging up is paid for by themselves + they still have to pay benefit in kind tax on their fuel benefit
Doesn't it come with a granny charger cable? Speaking from experience, that's all you really need.
That says more about that person than the technology
Range is great, plus rapid charging.
Not a fan of PHEV, having owned one…I prefer a range extender if you must must as the PHEV drivetrain is so complex,.
They are only the best if you could get 50km of electric use each charge
Impressive performance!
Previous model more good looking though!
Previous model has ugly back, especially the back lights. Less agressive front as well. No, this current model is better looking.
I have a PHEV and only occasional access to public charging, so most of the time it is just hybrid efficiency, about double my gasoline-only car did.
However, with the new house there will be overnight charging in the garage, so the battery of the current car will cover the majority of the morning commute.
This C300e, that I just learned about today (Dec. 27th, 2021), would handle the daily round-trip on electrons with the gasoline engine covering the occasional longer trips. So I am going to be giving this car a closer look.
Actual electric range unlikely to be 60miles,a real world test would be interesting.
Yes, none of these review sites ever do a real world winter test especially with country roads and a few hills, guessing that 60 miles be more like 25-30 max
@@talkandplay only if driven very harsh . 2019 e300e had a range of 30/35 miles and would do 20 to 30 and if driven harsh like 15. So this c300e should do at least 45
Only thing I don’t like about PHEV is that we still need to pay for high premium for annual servicing… other than that, good range for 62 miles. I am thinking this C300e or just get a Tesla model 3 LR next year.
More weight, more complexity, more maintenance. THAT is why PHEVs suffer compared to EVs. And they often get such a small tank that they can't go further on it than a full EV on its battery....
A simple google will tell you that phevs are actually more reliable.
It’ll do atleast 350 and could do more on the petrol engine and 60 with electric . That’s atleast 400 450 minimum and you won’t have to wait at a charging port for an hour or so. Win win in my books
take care while driving at the wrong side of the road, it‘s dangerous
So this is basically the same car as my Vauxhall Ampera that came out 9 years ago...
Except the petrol engine in this actually drives the wheels, arguably a worse system I think.
Hi fellow Vaxhall Ampera owner, not many of us out there. It's like I bought the car 2nd hand four years ago and it's still more advanced than most cars on the road. Costs virtually nothing to run and has hardly depreciated. Probably will last forever if this video for a Chevy Volt which is the same car is anything to go by "th-cam.com/video/kxlxc-E8lJ4/w-d-xo.html", my car should have another 350k miles in it!
@@donaldduck5731 same car and virtually same name , I'm John Jenkins
2:23 saying 400+ mpg is meaningless to us. please explain how many miles per charge that is for. if you did 2 miles it would be infinity mpg, if you did 6000 miles it would be much lower than 400mpg. they give non-sensical stats but as a reviewer i expect you guys to make sense of it for us.
Stop moaning! He said how many miles per charge at least twice
@@BHBeckenbauer nope. miles per longer drive that gets to 400mpg. did not say at all so 400mpg means nothing. miles of EV range is a completely different thing. and i'm perfectly entitled to moan all i want, it's one of life's pleasures. who are you to tell me i can't?
One can find better options for 70k…
PHEVs, because of their smaller batteries, go through even more charging and discharging than BEVs, negatively impacting their battery health. Don't be surprised a 4yo PHEV with just 70% battery health left, especially if your drives are mostly electric only.
Of course they are a dead end. They can make sense because we are in a transition period. All transitions eventually end. For me, personally, 100 km range is already too much. I can almost get to my cottage and back on that (it's about 60 km away and I can recharge there). I don't need fast charging (50+ kW) in a PHEV. What I want is an 11 kW onboard AC charger. So that I can use three-phase supply. Which many plug-in hybrids lack.
When you say things like you need to charge regularly to get 400 mpg, it suggests you have no clue how that value is calculated. Sure, you have to charge regularly. But your travel profile matters. If more than half of your miles are long distance trips where you'll be running on petrol, you'll get nowhere near 400. That calculation makes assumptions. If you have a powerful PHEV with 100 km electric range, then the assumption is that 80 % of your miles will be on electricity from an outlet (100 / (100+25)). Generally speaking, the assumption is that, to put it simply, you'll travel additional 25 km using fuel for every full battery on average. Unless they changed the calculation. It' the R101. Those are UN regulations; they are made in Geneva, not Brussels. EU just implements them on behalf of the member states so that we don't have to do redundant work (we are all members of the UNECE). Another titbit that journalists often miss.
One problem with plug-in hybrids is that manufacturers are not that motivated to tune the hybrid system for efficiency when running on fuel. Because of how the consumption is calculated, big batteries give them great numbers without bothering with it (avoiding fees for excess fleet emissions). That's one thing I liked about Toyota's HSD. I didn't care for the CVT-like character, but it was well sorted. Not exciting, but very rational. Another problem is that many people buy them for a tax benefit which doesn't require them to actually charge the car. They don't mind paying for the fuel, they mind paying the taxes and fees. Or they want free parking or whatever benefit. That's no good. Pure EV at least requires you to charge it. :-) I believe there are people for whom PHEV is a perfect fit - two cars in one - which saves a ton of emissions compared to buying that second car. I'm just not convinced they should be supported by governments as the benefit is behaviour dependent. One could argue that a hybrid is better than a conventional car but the less it's charged, the bigger waste of resources the hybrid system is. It would be better if those batteries and motors were used in pure EVs, than just lugged around to claim a benefit. Who knows, perhaps things have changed and my information about user behaviour is outdated. Car manufacturers do know.
400mpg? How in lame mans terms do you arrive at that figure? These electric car stats are more vague than Boris Johnson trying to tell the truth!
Ü
Yoi are driving fast and looking alot more on thr fucking camera ,i will be scared if i am on same road
What is the point of buying this gas guzzler with its semi-electrification? Still going to cost you more in the long run as that 2 ltr engine will need servicing as well the gearbox and other parts known to a regular driver of cars BUT go for a pure Electric version, if that ever comes out and you save, save save - so in my opinion I'd go either way if what you prefer to drive is a stated car without a top up facility.
Utterly missing the point!
No use driving anywhere when the planet has warmed by another 4 degrees, few of us will be left alive to visit.
Car with engines are a big part of the problem, go electric and change the way you live.
i Drive about 50 miles 2 times a day this would be nice but its not a E class sadly