Do we still need to ETTR if the ISO is kept under 400 ? the new gen sensors are pretty advanced to handle details is shadows. pl correct me if i am wrong..
I think it is still a good idea to push that exposure to the right, because while dynamic range is getting better on sensors, you still see your details capture in the "bright" side of the histogram.
Your explanation of why the higher end of the histogram retains details, better than the lower (highlight retention, shadows are detail-poor), is way too complex. The real reason is that a digital sensor collects light as single pixel signals, and each pixel collecting light has the same digital noise as any other on the same sensor. So, when the collected signal is weak (shadows), the signal-to-noise ratio is way lower than in the highlights, where the signal-to-noise ratio is high. The lesser the signal (shadows), the harder it is for the camera to interpret the signal instead of noise, so the noise is amplified more for shadows than for highlights.
I just recently started trying ETTR. As you demonstrated the first thing I have seen is a reduction in noise using higher ISO setting. It seems counter intuitive but the results are consistent. I need a lot more experience before I can definitely say that as a landscaper it will be beneficial to my work flow. Thank you for the great content, on this and so many other subjects.
You are very welcome Timothy! How far are you using pushing the histogram? I think it is so hard to do in the field, so I am curious how people handle it. I will push till I am close or just starting to touch, but in the studio, I can go a lot further.
I am shooting Fuji but mainly SOOC. I was shooting ETTR but trusting the diagram, which was fine. Learned about how RAW can be pushed further and the ISO aspect… I need to get much better at editing in order to get the results my Fuji gets SOOC (Classic Neg with Regies’s Portra recipe)… Thanks a lot for this very useful video… I’m binge watching the channel :)
Thank you for watching. ETTR takes times to get used to, and it is hard to do without a tethered computer, because you really don't know how far you can go, but you certainly can push 2/3 to a full stop in most cases. So happy you are enjoying the channel.
Found your channel while looking for a video on ETTR. Best explanation I've found. On my a7rii I found that using the zebra stripes was a disaster. Although I believe they're improved on the later marks. More adjustability. I've been pushing more to the right lately and have found a big improvement. I used bracketing to get over the fear of ending up with no usable files on a shoot. I did find that night mode in the creative menu seemed to be closest to raw on the viewfinder? Imagination, maybe. I have been using high ISO a lot lately. Dull light and windy conditions. Ireland! Have you looked at DXO Pure Raw? Great for high ISO shots. Might be a good subject for a video for you.
I liked your video a lot. Nevertheless, I would like to point out that you compared two photos with the same iso (6400) but with different exposures. When you changed your shutter in the second photo, the signal to noise ratio changed. The second one has more noise, because you reduced the exposure. In digital cameras, ISO is not part of the exposure triangle, only applied gain. Your experiments demonstrate that the clipping point in digital sensors is higher than we think, and that ISO isn't relevant when you calculate the signal to noise ratio. For my part, I never use the exposure meter, only zebras. I set them in +109 and my photos tend to be overexposed in general. I will follow your advice and try not to worry about specular highlights.
I like to expose more like it's done in cinema. For most stills cameras, from middle grey to pure white clipping, you get about 3.5 stops. If you've got a camera with 14 stops of dynamic range, it's essentially exposing to the right, for you. I expose in low light, to the lowest shutter and widest aperture I can use, iso doesn't matter unless you've got two base isos, can boost it later. More light = less noise, because individual photons are the majority of the noise you see these days. Ecposing to the right at hish iso just does the same thing as using a lower iso at the same settings - you just lose more highlights. Cinema cameras usually shoot at an exposure index of 800 or so, which is 3 stops underexposed compared to a stills camera at base iso, so they shift 3.5 stops over and 10 under, to 6.5 over and 7 under, more or less. Shooting outdoors in the shade, not blowing the direct lit parts of the image is very difficult otherwise.. it's all a compromise.
Excellent Tutorial. I have always been uncomfortable, using ETTR because it was counterintuitive to the way I understood that sensors worked. However, after watching your tutorial (twice I might add), I feel much more comfortable experimenting with the concept. Thank you.
You are very welcome. Please share with others. Just really getting the channel up and running, and I need all the grass root support I can get. Thank you again.
Thank you. I think ETTR is a good approach, but it is not for everyone or all things. It is good to know, and also how the sensor captures detail, and noise.
Wow, so many questions answered n one video, especially was interested in the relationship between ETTR and high iso, couldn’t find information anywhere as to wether I should stick to base ISO and not ETTR or crank the iso to get an overexposed image, this has given me so much information to make an informed decision at my shoots now!! THANK YOU
Do we still need to ETTR if the ISO is kept under 400 ? the new gen sensors are pretty advanced to handle details is shadows. pl correct me if i am wrong..
I think it is still a good idea to push that exposure to the right, because while dynamic range is getting better on sensors, you still see your details capture in the "bright" side of the histogram.
Your explanation of why the higher end of the histogram retains details, better than the lower (highlight retention, shadows are detail-poor), is way too complex. The real reason is that a digital sensor collects light as single pixel signals, and each pixel collecting light has the same digital noise as any other on the same sensor. So, when the collected signal is weak (shadows), the signal-to-noise ratio is way lower than in the highlights, where the signal-to-noise ratio is high. The lesser the signal (shadows), the harder it is for the camera to interpret the signal instead of noise, so the noise is amplified more for shadows than for highlights.
Thanks for watching!
I just recently started trying ETTR. As you demonstrated the first thing I have seen is a reduction in noise using higher ISO setting. It seems counter intuitive but the results are consistent. I need a lot more experience before I can definitely say that as a landscaper it will be beneficial to my work flow. Thank you for the great content, on this and so many other subjects.
You are very welcome Timothy! How far are you using pushing the histogram? I think it is so hard to do in the field, so I am curious how people handle it. I will push till I am close or just starting to touch, but in the studio, I can go a lot further.
I am shooting Fuji but mainly SOOC. I was shooting ETTR but trusting the diagram, which was fine. Learned about how RAW can be pushed further and the ISO aspect… I need to get much better at editing in order to get the results my Fuji gets SOOC (Classic Neg with Regies’s Portra recipe)… Thanks a lot for this very useful video… I’m binge watching the channel :)
Thank you for watching. ETTR takes times to get used to, and it is hard to do without a tethered computer, because you really don't know how far you can go, but you certainly can push 2/3 to a full stop in most cases. So happy you are enjoying the channel.
Found your channel while looking for a video on ETTR. Best explanation I've found. On my a7rii I found that using the zebra stripes was a disaster. Although I believe they're improved on the later marks. More adjustability.
I've been pushing more to the right lately and have found a big improvement. I used bracketing to get over the fear of ending up with no usable files on a shoot. I did find that night mode in the creative menu seemed to be closest to raw on the viewfinder? Imagination, maybe.
I have been using high ISO a lot lately. Dull light and windy conditions. Ireland!
Have you looked at DXO Pure Raw? Great for high ISO shots. Might be a good subject for a video for you.
Thank you for watching.
I liked your video a lot. Nevertheless, I would like to point out that you compared two photos with the same iso (6400) but with different exposures. When you changed your shutter in the second photo, the signal to noise ratio changed. The second one has more noise, because you reduced the exposure. In digital cameras, ISO is not part of the exposure triangle, only applied gain. Your experiments demonstrate that the clipping point in digital sensors is higher than we think, and that ISO isn't relevant when you calculate the signal to noise ratio. For my part, I never use the exposure meter, only zebras. I set them in +109 and my photos tend to be overexposed in general. I will follow your advice and try not to worry about specular highlights.
Thanks for watching.
I like to expose more like it's done in cinema. For most stills cameras, from middle grey to pure white clipping, you get about 3.5 stops. If you've got a camera with 14 stops of dynamic range, it's essentially exposing to the right, for you. I expose in low light, to the lowest shutter and widest aperture I can use, iso doesn't matter unless you've got two base isos, can boost it later. More light = less noise, because individual photons are the majority of the noise you see these days. Ecposing to the right at hish iso just does the same thing as using a lower iso at the same settings - you just lose more highlights. Cinema cameras usually shoot at an exposure index of 800 or so, which is 3 stops underexposed compared to a stills camera at base iso, so they shift 3.5 stops over and 10 under, to 6.5 over and 7 under, more or less. Shooting outdoors in the shade, not blowing the direct lit parts of the image is very difficult otherwise.. it's all a compromise.
Thanks for watching.
Excellent Tutorial. I have always been uncomfortable, using ETTR because it was counterintuitive to the way I understood that sensors worked. However, after watching your tutorial (twice I might add), I feel much more comfortable experimenting with the concept. Thank you.
SO happy to hear it is helping you in your photography! And thank you for subscribing!
Excellent video, very educational, this is the first one I watch that explain in detail ettr. Thanks for sharing and hope more people can watch it.
You are very welcome. Please share with others. Just really getting the channel up and running, and I need all the grass root support I can get. Thank you again.
Very well done. Great examples and explanations. I also appreciate that you make your point without insisting that this is the only way to photograph.
Thank you. I think ETTR is a good approach, but it is not for everyone or all things. It is good to know, and also how the sensor captures detail, and noise.
Wow, so many questions answered n one video, especially was interested in the relationship between ETTR and high iso, couldn’t find information anywhere as to wether I should stick to base ISO and not ETTR or crank the iso to get an overexposed image, this has given me so much information to make an informed decision at my shoots now!! THANK YOU
You are very welcome.
I am agree, this is an excellent video! Explains how to reduce noice using higher ISO. Thank you for educational content!
Thank you so much for watch. Happy to hear you enjoyed the content!