I want to extend the Battery Shelf. But not to gain more capacity...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2023
- I thought about this for a while but did not really have any ideas on how to proceed: extending the battery shelf!
I have several options to connect more batteries to the shelf. Not all of them are great or thought through but still are ideas.
At the end, there is only one real solution using a 200A MCCB and a 375A Anderson connector. I know.... Anderson... but, let me explain.
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Build a small cabinet for the 200A breaker, out of aluminum sheets left overs from earlier, mount it on the outside of the shelf. Then just make 2 holes for new cable glans to get access to the busbar below shunt. Then no need to remove endplate of the battery shelf.
I would probably use an appropriate plastic case for the breaker... But mounting it on the outside is probably the only solution.
Im a truck driver amd 100 percent off grid when im home. Usually only 3 or 4 days a month but still off grid non the less. Thanks for all the knowledge you give us diy people.
SEPLOS 3 BMS Update is out
as they describe the update progress in this video titled: How to upgrade the SEPLOS BMS3.0 to solve the passive balance?
Not sure if it will really solve the issues but might be worth a closer look and give it a try.
Finally do it your self! The best of this Channel.
Can't wait your test of the new JKBMS !!!! At least some real RS485/CAN communications !!!!!!! Yes great for parallel installation !!!!
Yayy, build videos 🥳🎉🍻🍻
Lot's of build videos...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ♥️🍻🍻
I'm using Anderson-Connectors (300A types, the red ones shown in the video) for all of my Batteries for about 7 months. I pulled them under havy loads of up to 150A per battery several times. And what can I say: absolutely no issues! The contacts looks shiny and clean like at the day they were mounted. Really good decision!
Great, thanks for sharing. I would have a disconnect switch/MCCB/MCB first before I pull them apart. The spring seems to be very strong and 200A should be no problem for them
It is a good plan, and will be more representative of real use. Cheers for doing these tests.
It's be so much work!
If your going to test Anderson connectors , buy some Anderson connectors. Hopefully you test the real ones along side the china versions. Also if you wanted to keep it all modular you could put the breaker in a small box with Anderson connectors on both ends . Just hang it on the wall . Plug and play , move it around for different things etc . PS : Anderson makes a pull loop handle for those bigger guys and it makes it easy to connect and disconnect them .
More ideas... thanks
6:30 I prefer mounting a Lynx Distributor on the box itself - it has fuses for each connection.
And it's clean, small, easy to reach. I just don't like the screw connections but thought the Andersons would be an easy upgrade. I need to figure out the space necessary though. It's all very tight. The battery shelf was never designed to take such an upgrade.
A schema basic and then a schema more detailed would help. I was lost in the middle😅 I need to look twice the video. I will do when I'm more focused. Thank you for all the videos. It's a pleasure
Hi Andy, nice project coming up! Why nog connect the Anderson 350A to the top of your busbar, unsecured, then make a small enclosure for the mccb with 350A Anderson as input and on it's output 3 170A Anderson as output. Then you have a secure coupling, you could even fit a 350A Anderson on the out as well and a 350A on the Lynx so you can switch, mix and match. Gives you flexibility and enough options for future tests. No big alterations to your main cabinet, all specials can be in an external smaller cabiner which you can assemble on your workbench. The leads will be a tad longer, but who cares. Take a SPAT and go round all options, good luck!
Uh, I like this idea!
Cyrix-i 24/48 V 400 A
Victron Energy
software of the Cyrix-i does more than simply connect and disconnect based on battery voltage and with a
fixed time delay. The Cyrix-i looks at the general trend (voltage increasing or decreasing) and reverses a previous
action only if the trend has reversed during a certain period of time. The time delay depends on the voltage
deviation. *Multiply Values x 4 (40-80 volt battery)
LOL, Those BIG Anderson connectors can be a real bear to disconnect. Good Luck!
I have two of them and it's not too bad. They also have these pull handles, so it's relatively easy...
New JK BMS 😊 the older one is a nice device
I still have the first gen of the JK and it has been running flawlessly since.
One solution is to get those big fuses that you pull out and act as a switch at the same time. It’s so rare occasion that it fits for that well. Only downside is that those fuses are classic burning types and not resettable.
That would work as well. I have no intension to blow any fuses or disconnect them under load.
Thanks Andy
Wayne, thank you.
The amount of time, money, and potential income would suggest you must have very good insurances. You can never forecast everything that may come your way. So you mentioned a safe option, and that's my 2 penny's worth. Keep safe Andy, and thanks so much for your videos.
Very true!
I liked the idea of having multiple connection points instead of just one.
Why not running a second busbar in parallel to the big one (you have this nice Victron PowerIn) in the shelf and connect the two of them via the big breaker and a second smart shunt? You'll probably find a way to mount multiple Anderson connectors in the powerWall 2.0.
And I would love to see all the cabling involved.
Yeah, something like this. I like the Lynx Power-In because it's compact and fused. I don't like the screw terminals and adding Andersons... I'll have to see...
Extend the Victron bus bar with Lynx ### and connect test setup via new breaker/isolator
How about this:
1. cancel Powerwall 2.1 (2.2) and stack new and future batteries from Battery 2.0 to the closed garage door in the vacated space
2. connect all new and future batteries to the original two vertical busbars in exactly the same way as Battery 2.0
3. the entire Battery 2.0 would be extended with a new panel (30-40cm) of all battery disconnects oriented from the front for all original, new and future batteries, each disconnect would be described to which battery it belongs
This would be a nice clean solution where all batteries would be:
- nicely stored in a single row connected to the same two original busbars system
- switching off/on all batteries in one place from a new panel of all battery disconnectors
Thank you, some good ideas and thoughts
I think adding the new breaker is a good solution!
5 Frogs for safety!
An interesting just me that takes some time to concider the best solution.
It will be interesting to see the batteries you have and furure boxs and the frankenstien battery under load.
It will be importnat to monitor them separately and assume you will also pit a smart shunt in between the additional batteries your testing on your main set.
Luckily you have plenty of sunshine coming, ours is dropping away now although 2 or three days we srill get a full charge.
I look forward to seing how this develops and enjoy and appreciate your projects.
My feeling as with others above is a seperate contriol board with multiple types of connectivity and your single big breaker with some fuses would be the best solution and provide more flexibility and the option for change in the future.
Thank you for your feedback. It takes some time to sort this out, hence I started early to make this video and collect ideas and thoughts from everyone...
I'd run cables from the bottom of the busbar, into a switched fuse and then 3m of cable with Anderson connector on the end. On all the batterys add Anderson connectors so you can plug whichever battery into it thst you want to test whilst isolating your shelf
Something like this was my plan to quickly change and connect.
I would prefer your first version, connect the powerwall 2.0 zu your primary battery. It will give you the most flexibillity.
Love the idea of testing Anderson connectors. They have their place in industry, say for forklift charging. I would never use one in my labratory for testing personally. I'd sugest ditching the Victron stuff and use what I use in my setup Andy, A long bus bar, drilled and tapped with holes, mounted on the wall with various sized din rail mounted breakers attached to it. Each breaker has it's own shunt. This way you can pick and choose the protection level as needed, and acurately record charging and discharging (testing does not always include a BMS for me.). I use a hinge attached to acrylic in order to cover the bus bar so I don't create the sun by accident. The acrylic has velcro on the ends to hold it either opened or closed. This setup allows the most flexibility for testing imo. My setup is extensive with many voltages available on many bus bars. 12 to 1000 VDC. You don't need to go with this extensive of a voltage range, but say maybe 3 voltages? 12, 24 and 48 VDC, I know people ask about voltages other then 48 volts. 72VDC maybe? I know this is a DIY chanel, but if you are going to continue testing like this you, should have a proper setup that uses lugs instead of Anderson connectors.
High amperage, highly acurate shunts with displays are available on the cheap if you look hard enough.
I would use the Lynx Power In as the bus bar. It has fuses and connectors as I need them. I'm just not a friend of using tools to connect a battery. I like the multi voltage setup, that's a great idea but also would involve a hell lot of changes to pretty much everything, MPPTs, Inverter, cabling... so that's too much to be just an upgrade. It's more a reset.
And, I will keep using Victron. There is nothing comparable on the market...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I think you may have misunderstood me Andy. I'm an autorized Victron dealer, I don't want you to ditch all your Victron equipment. It is one of the best sytems for this type of stuff in the world. I'm just sugesting something a bit more flexible for testing. I don't think the Lynx Disributer or the Power In are what you need for a flexible setup to test batteries. Fuses need to be replaced if they blow. A bus bar with various sized circuit breakers is something you can reset and use again if you make a mistake. You can still use the Victron shunts if you prefer, they are expensive though, so my sugestion was to help you save money. The set up I'm sugesting isn't cheap even for 1 voltage, so saving where you can might be something you want to do.
@@boatelectricaldiy thanks for the clarification. Yes, I misunderstood your last comment. That makes sense now. I think I've got a plan/vision now which way to go. Thanks for your inspiration, my friend.
Hi Andi , first of all you need a schematic of your System and how everything is connected to . Then you could decide where the best point is to connect your DuT . Use breaker and Anderson connector for each DuT
I've got the schematic and have only limited points where I can connect the additional batteries.
Thanks
Thanks a lot for your ongoing and frequent donations Charles. You are a huge supporter of my channel for a long time. It is very much 👍🍺
Hi Andy. I have that same 200 amp breaker (under another name) and they are excellent! When you switch them, they don’t mess around and can wake the dead with a loud clank 😅! However, during my curiosity disassembly I noticed that the threads for the terminals are in copper so use common sense when tightening or see if they have supplied a torque spec. Also if you’re going to add that fuse, I highly recommend using fast blow T class fuses and the best holder for them is from Blue Sea Systems. Those you can torque down👍
Thanks for sharing Karl. I think I have read 7Nm for these breakers
Can we know under what brand they are also existing and are they for 100% equal
the thing is, adding capacity to the big battery bank is " you have to change the setting of the shunt everytime you add or remove a battery bank in the system". then it would intoduce a problem in the capacity coz you have to fully charge the big battery to calibrate it to 100% again, i think adding capacity would be a permanent upgrade and not a for testing puposes upgrade. and oh not just the shunt, but the whole victron system.
Yeah, changing the battery capacity in the shunt would take 30s. That's not a problem. Nothing else to change for such a test...
If it were me, I would use the Power-In. It's such an elegant busbar system and if you convert it so each battery can be fused, even better. Then, to carry out testing, simply connect the battery to the Power-In using a cable with the appropriate terminal connector.
Yeah, it seems to be a very flexible and versatile, has got the fuses and it is small.
I would model the battery shelf in CAD first to see what would fit.
One change you might want to make to the battery shelf, regardless of what direction you go in, would be to make the side panel removable with to having to remove the circuit breakers.
The circuit breakers are hard wired into the vertical busbars. Once he undoes the screws removing the panel leaves them in place.
It's just a bit of a faff to line them up with the cutouts when he replaces the panel.
Yep, I should be able to take the side panel off and the breakers should stay in place just with the cable connections. There is one other screw for the earth wire and one other holding a bus bar standoff.
I would put the big breaker between your battery shelf and the Anderson connectors.
That way one breaker is only needed to disconnect your battery shelf.
That's the plan.
Please link a garage fire alarm with your house so you have early alert to any issues
Have the same breaker :) heavy yeahhh. I have just finished install a new 3,75kW pv but its late night and I have no chance to test it today 🤣
Hello Andy, I will have any time a Breaker between a Busbar and an extern Battery. From this Breaker you can make a main connection to the blue DC Distributer and have these 4 connects for the externe Battery with this one Fuse(100A...)
The Lynx Power In are messy with all the cables hanging out. They are really designed to work with cable ducting.
i would mount the bb braker to the wall and attach to the main battery by the top terminals of the main battery then your not having to cut huge holes in the casiing
Andy, Since your goal is to have the loads available to the DuT, you definitely want to be able to runs tests including/excluding the battery shelf.
1. Big Breaker - Essential, as you said
2. I think Big Breaker should go to the top shelf bus bar. That way the shelf batteries can be isolated or connected during testing.
3. "Below" the Big Breaker you could have the Anderson. This would allow you to connect different DuTs. A standalone power wall, the Power Wall 2.x with all the batteries it has connected, you could run big, fat, $$$$$$ cables out to some other testing area etc. Options are limited only by budget, physical space or imagination.
4. As for shunts, if you want to individually coulomb count the battery shelf and the DuT as well as the over all system, I think you'd want one "above" the Noark Big Breaker to the top shelf bus bar, another similarly connected from new Big Breaker to top shelf bus bar and then keeping the existing shunt for overall system stats. You could also measure flow between shelf and DuT batteries that way also.
So do you have room (physical/budget) for 2 more shunts "before" the top shelf bus bars, the new Big Breaker and a giant Anderson connector (or maybe an alternative)?
Outside of the shelf is then flexible to be used for anything you can imagine.
Agree ... to the top, seperate from the main setup
Hopefully not off topic but can you test that breaker and fuses in general?
Hahaha, probably not.
Heya, yes what is the best solution and options that you need and want and even try to think about the future too (upgrading/expanding) and of cores it has to be profesionally installed so we don't have safety issues
You are right that the additional batteries need to connect thru the Smart Shunt on the top shelf.
But the 200A breaker needs to be wired IN PARALLEL with the existing 250A breaker. (Shunt is OK for 500A, so is still fully protected by the two in parallel.)
Then Anderson connector from the 200A. Connect the frankenstein to test just that in parallel with the 44kWh shelves. Powerwall 2 can still charge the Tesla.
Or, connect the Lynx 1000 to test any combo of the other batteries.
Well, if I would parallel the existing 250A breaker with the new 200A breaker, I need to upgrade my cabling to the main busbar system in the top shelf.
It's a lot to consider...
Yay🎉
You did a great job with the Battery Shelf why mess with it. Agree with the 200A MCCB don't like the anderson bulky, hard to disconnect and not IP67, use Quick Plug 300A Terminals similar to the ones of the batteries you want to test and made a few couple cables for the most common sizes. You can put all in a distribution box and connect to the shelf bus bar with a 70mm cable. Since you have an extra lynx power in you could use it, next winter when you change your setup you can replace the distribution box for another solution.
Anderson does not need to be IP rated as it would be fixed installed inside the garage. Yeah, 70mm2 would be what I would be using to connect to the MCCB.
The terminals are a good idea though. It would be clean and quick.
Thanks.
In would love to see a Tesla wall charger and 3 phase inverter added to the mix. You’re getting close to being able to fully charge the car in a few hours with 3x 16A 240v - stress test
3-phase is maybe not an option right now. The sparky has plans to convert everything to single phase once the house can be connected as well.
I'm driving electric since 2015 and never had to charge at home in a hurry, so any wallbox would be a waste of money for me. But yes, for a battery stress test, I can see your point.
I would not use the Anderson connector. I would create a bolt on extension on the busbar and use screw on terminals. Much better and faster connection and disconnections. You can buy isolated versions of those.
Safer, yes but definitely not faster.
The, I can just use the Victron Power-In as shown...
Hi Andy, I would worry about differences in parasitic resistence between the different battery packs. In the current battery shelf 2.0 it may be well matched, but with additional breakers, cables and connectors it may be off. And then you might get inbalance between the packs and miss the whole point of your test goal. I think you should keep it separate on dc side and connect at ac side.
Though… this might be a nice aspect to test as well 🤓
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Mount the Victron bus bar (It would be nice if you built your own bus bar to show the viewer how such a project can be realised) on the outside of the sheet metal wall and secure it with the fuse switch between the inner and outer new bus bar. This way you can disconnect the whole busbar from the system, the battery storage units to be connected all have a fuse switch. From the new bus bar you can connect the respective battery with Anderson and also immediately connect it with a cable to the bus bar for comparison, so you can see the difference to Anderson and thanks for your answere Andy
That's not a bad idea. Thanks.
I think I have shown how to build a busbar in a past video in aaaaaall details 😉
Pull a breakered connection from the production bank to a Lynx Power in. Then have the Power In connected to a string of Anderson Connectors, or whatever else you want to use. to connect to the batteries. Maybe a busbar V2?
FYI ... by breakered, I mean off the main busbar. This way you can disconnect the three, and run the new .
Yeah, I get it... That was the original idea of the PowerWall 2.0 with the Power In and using Andersons for each battery. Still the cable mess is not great. On the other hand it would be only temporarily for testing...
Put them all in paralel and see how it works.
With the extension, I can do that.
"IT'S BOOM TIME 💥💥💥".
May I suggest an automatic Fire Extinguisher system?
Luv ya mate
Gaz 🏴
For what ?
@@onthelake9554 There are a couple of thousand Amperes sat in Andys Garage waiting to escape and have a party.
Fire surpession is just a suggestion. Things go wrong and shit happens.
Hahaha, Gaz, one which we have seen in the Polo batteries?😉
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Exactly Yeah, but whole garage sizes 😂
Hello from Austria. Thank you for your good Videos. Ich have a Question. How many Pannels or kWp have you Installed ?
44 panels at the moment from 400-510W
Klingt nach einem sehr spannenden Projekt, ich würde deine Akkubank so lassen wie die ist ich würde mit Kabel seperat an die Sicherung gehen und von dort aus mit Andersonstecker oder Variante zwei die ich persönlich besser finde, so wie es aktuell ist beibehalten und einfach mehr Solar an die Testbank klemmen 😀 und für einen volltest halt mal die anderen Laderegler von der ersten Anlage abschalten.
Hmmm, yeah, that is possible too...
Place all server rack batteries in server rack cabinets with doors.
Connect the batteries with vertical bus bars inside the cabinets,
which is better than using cables between the batteries.
It will be more safe and look much better and cleaner, then each battery can be pulled out
separately (when needed) than if they are stacked on top of each other.
Connect each server rack cabinet tower separately via their SmartShunt
to the system, but I don't know if Victron allows this.
While this seems like a clean solution, the problem is the different BMS at the moment. If they all would have the same, I would consider that.
Also, I don't have space for such a cabinet (yet). Maybe after the 'Power-Garage' upgrade.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Batteries with different BMSs can be in a same server rack cabinet, where there can be multiple basbar systems as needed, where only the batteries that can be connected together are connected.
@@tiborchren Ah, right, that's the idea... yeah, not bad...
With limited wall space, maybe add a wall in the middle of the room. You could use both sides. A two fer😂
I will create some more walls soon...
just have the breaker to connect the 2 systems? you even get the pool fence solar then too?
The pool fence needs to go soon. I promised it to my wife.
The current JK-BMS is Not Good at tracking SOC and resetting to 100%. I couldn't understand the conditions to reset to 100%. When you test the new version, could you please investigate how accurately it tracks SOC during discharging (compared to a Victron SmartShunt) and how it resets to 100%? Thanks!
We will investigate that and more with the new JK BMS.
Hi Andy,
I recall the JAKIPER battery with the Pace BMS. The cells weren't initially top-balanced. It's been roughly 3 months, and I'm curious if they've naturally balanced themselves using the built-in Pace BMS after many cycles, or if you manually added an active balancer to achieve balance?
Any updates on this matter? I'm relatively new to this channel and find myself thoroughly engrossed in and analyzing every one of your videos! 😅
I'll do an update on that soon... Yeah, I know, it's a lot of info😊
How would different SoC batteries with different voltages interact with each other when connected together?
The battery with the higher voltage charges the battery with the lower voltage. I've shows this in this video: th-cam.com/video/Rsb8wRqtNs0/w-d-xo.html
Woohooooooo Like#1
🥉
Question for you from Alaska. Do you have any wind generators connected to your system? Very little info out there talking about how to connect 3 phase 800w ac to batteries.
No, I haven't. This is not a windy area here, so solar is the much better alternative.
@Andy you bastard, why didn't you lead with "brand new JK"....... DAMNIT
and yes, I did pause the damn video to let you know my mind :)
😂😂😂
Did you piss off TH-cam? They stopped alerting me of your new videos.
Just busy with life. New video is coming soon...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia It doesn't have anything to do with how often you release a video, but TH-cam isn't telling me that you released a video. Instead of being notified, I had to search for you.
Why not add another linx and remove the shunt and keep all as is and add individual breakers on the cabinet
Where have you installed the shunt? I didn't keep that in mind. When you use several batteries, will you install it after all batteries?
Yes, it needs to be installed between the batteries and everything else.
It's in the top of the shelf, next to the 250A main MCCB.
Andy, is the red switch from Blue Sea Systems rated for 58+ volt?
No
mines pinned full eveyday i come home she is 100% oh that cell came good was a balance issue ,cant beleve how well a little 6.6kwh 24volt sytem works saving power bill running just about everything 1400w solar made 5.5kw today thats nuts ,50amp charge going into cells ,think misses going get a shock on her bill when i move the system 400m away to my shed lol ,2 more days and my shed is built frame is up
Nice, keep building up this system until your bill is zero. Your missus will love it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia the victron keep putting cells in float when they are not even over 80% how do stop this , why the damn victron cant detect its at 80% and need to keep charging in bulk charge mode , every time i come home its in float and cells are not fully charged
@@AdventureMotoEnduro what are your settings for absorption, float, ....?
Check the VRM advanced page, it's great for analysing issues.
Maybe you have hit the absorption voltage at so point during charging.
I assume it's your settings...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yes i found out what was going on ,float voltage was set at 27.5v and at 80% charge the cells are at 26.7v ,when sun pops out behind cloud its getting smashed 1400w 50amps out of the victron 100-50, voltage spikes over 27.5 ,so i raised it to 28v and it still spiked over and went in to float at 80% charge so i then lowered the charge limit to 30amps and its working ,cells are now charging and staying in blulk charge mode seems the cells cant take 50amps at 80% state of charge with out over spiking voltage
Did you get in touch with Basen ever again...?
They have all new Basen Green battery 51.2V...looking promising...
😅
Nope, no contact any more...
TOMZN seems to sell ultra-cheap MCBs that I’m not sure about and probably never ever would trust, especially for DC applications, or am I too extreme?
Why not tap off the main bus bar by using fuses directly bolted to it. One set of fuses for each Anderson connector. Don’t need a switch for each connector because the external batteries all will have switches.
That would work too. But then I could just use the Power-In and some Andersons, right?
How about if you wire extension from battery shelf busbars to wall and have that massive circuit breaker in a wall and stack anderson connectors to wall?
Every wire that goes in or out of the shelf (top layer & the three batteries) has a breaker before it leaves the shelf.
I know you're only talking about a short wire run, but those busbars are rated at 1000A x 50V if there's a terrible fault or crossed wire inside that cabinet. This is too dangerous, as Andy flashed up on the screen himself.
@@Full-of-Starships good point 👍🏼 I was thinking to wire from those horizontal busbars like extend those to wall with short but thick wires. Feed 250A circuit breaker from bottom of the power shelf.
Everything which leaves the main busbar needs to be fused immediately. Hence the idea to have the breaker sitting directly above the busbar. But the room is not enough, I think.
Maybe just think of where you really want to put batteries for testing. Should they be close to the computer.
Do you also want to test more solar panels or new inverters without interfering with the existing setup?
Should the switch be near you, the battery or the battery shelf?
How about height and position of the switch in case of a malfunctioning cell?
It's a lot to consider. I think I would separate some solar panela or add some more. Or maybe look into software that mimics solar charging and discharging if that is much easier. Not sure what's out there.
It is a lot to consider and decide. As I will re-arrange the garage in this area a bit, I may may wait for that design to finalise.
Leave the breaker on the outside
Use its lugs
Also much less work
Building some covers for the exposed breaker should be easier.
And you would be able to mount it at the top of that panel
I may be able to get a plastic enclosure for the breaker... so, yeah, mounting it on the outside is a possibility too.
Andy, I have been meaning to ask a question. Is the main house connected to the grid or equally off the grid? And if off-grid, how did you run the connection? Could you give us a tour?
It is still grid connected until 2028 when the feed-in contract runs out. However we have connected some loads and feed them from the battery: hot water, pool, EV charging, dishwasher and washing machine and yeah the S.P.A.T. fridge of course.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia What else is there left to power in the house then? Just lights and TV? 😆
@@carlca Yeah, not much else. We only use 1.5kWh per day in the house now. I have trained my wife well, to handle all the extension cables when needed. She's onto it and tries to save as much energy as she can while running the household.
Next will be to replace the gas BBQ with an electric one...
I would first sit and wait. The Battery 2.0 if I remember it right should simply stay as it is - just to make it easier for the thousands of new subscribers that come new to the channel and might go back and watch the older videos. The battery shelf 2.0 was a big milestone and it is very well documented so I would keep it as it is.
Everything else or new should be separated from that like a productive world in the IT and a kind of playground or sandpit as you had tried it.
If you really wanna replace the productive world for a few days with such new racks that arrive then it should be done by a separate connection and the current shelf 2.0 can be turned of to run those new racks or batteries in real world scenarios even though I doubt if that is bringing real benefits or new insights and understandings that are worth the efforts.
If you can charge and discharge them and they deliver the capacity promised and the max current then it should be done at least in the current world of BMS with passive balancers. What else do you wanna test to achieve what gains ?
You can not run them in a 300 or even 3000 real life cycle test within half a year and even if you could the real world is that meanwhile the manufacturers do no longer produce the rack you are testing cause they have found a new bms or cell or what not supplier to improve it - or lower their costs.
I would be realistic and first look for my home that this is running the best and separate and protect that from the whole testing world except maybe 2 power lines and 1 dataline to run such batteries for a few weeks in the real world charge and discharge scenario.
Everything you want to improve comes along with a lot of new work and far more complexity you might not recognice but it becomes harder and harder to understand where you are right now and where you really wanna go.
At the end it might be time to think about another garage to start in that from scratch with a dedicated purpose to replace the productive system you have from time to time with a test environment. But I would try to keep it simple that all the new subscriber get into it. I had watched so so so many hours of your videos last year to keep up and learn a lot that I doubt that it would be a good idea to abandon the current state just for a small improvement.
Simply call victron in the netherlands and let them equip your victron 2.0 garage cause they should support you more and enable you to do these things cause at the end your channel is a whole huge victron show case - which I not mean bad.
WOuld save a lot and you might have time to find a smart way to load test all those rack batteries that might be coming but I guess these will be at the end far too many that you might be able to test them all and I also bet you will be loosing interest in checking ready made build batteries for quality the whole time - it has already become too much rack or wallbox focussed content over the time with same or similar brands. I guess you wanna to stay the andi from the off grid garage and not the andi lfp battery checker channel.
KIS - keep it simple would be my advice, call victron for support, think about a victron garage 2 or dedicated test area to separate that from the productive world.
Would be easier and not so much confusing for all the viewers.
Very good points!
The 'Power-Garage' is coming this winter. Which is just over...
@@OffGridGarageAustraliaI guess you are in contact with the german channels, that meine techwelt and meine Energiewende cause we are hoping that you will appear in their monthly show called PV quartett or so.
They both have the closest contact to Victron, meine Energiewende seems to get the newest (maybe even beta) stuff from Victron and I bet that both of them and a lot more would support such an idea of a victron show case in sunny hot australia for the whole (yt) world rather than supporting their channel cause sunny hot australia has the big advantage of more sun and few clouds and therefore better opportunities for great content.
I have not a single victron product, so I am just watching an learning, cause we have only growatt installation due to reliability, scalability and a 10 year warranty that is a warranty cause growatt has german offices and repairs and replaces units but it happens only rarely. We have about 100 inverters and just a single case after about 7 or 8 years fully covered.
But I like the victron world too cause it forces you to understand the details what usually the hybrid inverters and so on do.
Therefore it might make sense to get victron power house in andy's garage as a back bone while playing with other inverters, devices, batteries and heatpumps cause sooner or later it might become a question where to go from where you are ? Waiting for Seplos BMS V22 might not be the greatest perspective.
Anyway, I will stay watching even though I have build enough Solar power systems, even for the first time a small east west array to observe and compare the performance of 3 huge 550 Wp panels on each roof. Winter is a bit away but we appreciate an untypical warm September with several days in the 30°C in the beginning, so we will add a water heatpump with additional heat exchanger to heat the house with surplus solarpower as long as we can.
Keep on rockin
Do not connect to the existing shunt, rather parallel the main DC bus with a test shunt
I've suggested wiring both the 200A & 250A in parallel to the output of the existing (500A) Shunt, but this is better if the control software can integrate multiple shunts (I'd expect that it can).
This is ready for integrating non-shelf batteries properly into the production system.
Why should I not connect everything to the existing shunt?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Only because it tracks the energy flows to the external batteries separately for your testing.
Hi Andy, switching batteries on and off could cause the shunt to loose track of the SOC of the permanent battery.
As you mentioned in the past the shunt is your absolute point of truth and if you are going to increase and decrease capacity and swop batteries in and out it will remove your point of truth.
A second test shunt incorporated in the main system should solve this problem, something to test if the VRM can work with 2 shunts. The battery shelf should with shunt should be regarded as a single standalone battery.
I might be wrong but this is my concern.
@@PierredeVilliersLife I agree with this.
Why not put some plastic sheet between the big barst and the bus bars in that 10mm gap?
I would do this anyway but also need to connect cables or flexible busbars to the breaker from them 10mm away busbar. That is the main challenge!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I see, I thought it was an insulation problem. Can the bus bars be moved?
@@foxythedirtydog4494 under no circumstances. They are part of the main shelf structure and built.
Use a second MP2 48 5000 or 10000 and use the Phoenix somewhere else.
What difference would that make for my test setup?
The main question is how to connect the batteries to the system! Why not just switch between 230V mains. That's much easier than installing a main switch like this... The transfer switch can certainly be easily accommodated in the sub-distribution for your off-grid system. Or two of the MP2 can also be loaded from your existing one. I hope I don't misunderstand anything, but the solution came to me spontaneously.
Hy house insurer ( sunshine coast) said any batteries other than on their "list" of approved, would absolutely invalidate my house insurance. How would you get around this?
It's not installed in my house.
Wait just a minute!
If you connect the new batteries to your battery shelf after the smart shunt you will have no way to work out the energy left in the battery shelf.
If it were my setup I'd connect all the new batteries T'd off of were the the smart shunt is for the curent battery shelf setup.
that way you can run a smart shunt for the new setup then out to a main disconnect breaker in the same manner you already have with that 250 amp breaker
I hope I'm expaining this right, it's been a long day
The batteries need to be connected the same side as the existing batteries from the smart shunt perspective. It's explained in the video.
Maybe it is time to split up the garage in a Production area and Test area. 😂
Agree
Andy kind of has that right now. The idea of the option to add test batteries to the main battery is to gain the use of the main loads. Don't forget the end goal... find a suitable way to connect the main battery LOAD to the battery under TEST. Of course he could have the option to test the battery as part of the bigger system or standalone (with/without the main battery shelf)
That's a great idea and basically as a test system it is used almost always.
Test area = Powerwall 2.1 (2.2) would be beneficial and useful to have portable.
Setting it up on a strong industrial cart where the bottom would be the whole Powerwall 2.1 (2.2)
and having a test battery on the work bench, basically a table on wheels :)
and the whole Powerwall 2.1 (2.2) under the table.
In this way the battery could be tested independently and if necessary,
the wheels would allow the test battery to be connected to the main power system.
Wait for the Power-Garage upgrade.
Yeah - I could have told you Andy, a big bastard can give you all kinds of concerns!
- When it comes to the MCB/MCCB's - did you ever do any testing of them?? The trip curve seems so "conservative" that nothing else than a direct short-circuit or a very heavy overload for a looong time, will trip them. Just something to beware of, if anyone should get the idea to directly compare their rating to fuses...
That's the same with all circuit breakers though. Depending on the trip curve, they can hold a long time before the thermal trigger actually trips the breaker. In this case, it is really more like a main switch and short protection. All connected batteries have their own fuses/breakers anyway.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Right- I was just curious if you - in all your testing - ever had done any on these breakers. I can't find any good tests online of them. And I just wonder if they work as designed, or just really is nothing more than a big on/off switch...
@@jbjensen11You would need a very controlled environment and setup to test such breakers safely. This is certainly nothing you would do in a garage.
But do the airbags and seat belts in your car work as designed? The fire extinguisher you have bought a while back?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I understand it's not easy to test and that is why you hardly ever see anyone do it. They come in many sizes. I was merely curious if you at anytime had tested any size of these breakers. I would find such test interesting.
I get your point - the items you mention are under much more strict regulations I trust, than chineese lowcost circuitbreakers, may be. - Anyway, just wanted to expres my curiosity. You are my fav testman, to consult :)
@@OffGridGarageAustraliaHi Andy,
I'm very curious too. What do you think about this MCCB TOMZN? Is it a quality product? Can you confirm that it is not polarized?
I have the same model in 200A and I wonder how many amps it really cuts? I couldn't get the curves from TOMZN...
A perfectly balanced “Tower of Power” and a fully calibrated shunt…. Are you sure you want to mess with that. AI think that the solution is on the AC side. Find the way to integrate another inverter on the test side, maybe with a second smart shunt. Another victron inverter maybe is the answer.
The problem is how I charge the additional batteries. It takes forever with the few temporary solar fence panels. I need more power.
Link of breaker to Ali Ex doesn't work.
OK, I'll check it tonight. Thanks.
Edit: seems to work for me...
"If " you some how you "feel " you need to disconnect any of those switches, it will be too late, fire and smoke will have taken over long time a go! 🤭
love your videos!
The switches are not for emergency purposes, just for isolating circuits.
Hello there you Victron owners :)
I have 24v of grid system (3.6kw 24v Easun inverter) with 2.7kw solar panels. Since I have not enough batteries in winter days I switch off my battery pack and use my inverter in SOL mode (in this mode solar panels directly supply power to the load, if solar is not enough the rest is pulled from AC, my inverter/charger handles this). I would like to add a new string and to use a Victron charge controller, will this cause me issues in winter when I will use my system without a battery pack? I am of grid so the current should not flow back to our house if it is not used
As the name implies, it's a solar charge controller. So what will you charge without battery? It's a DC-DC buck converter but you have nothing to connect to the DC output, so where is the energy supposed to go?
From which manufacture cells i need to buy from china. Im looking 280ah cell. Or battery storge ? Please help😊
QSO
@@Dbuklas tnx
Have a look in the video description, there are links to reliable manufacturers.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia where i can buy oreginal hithium cells as you know any suplyer who have genione oreginal hithium cells.please help
I would say don't have too many switches and connectors in any run as each one will have resistance and drop voltage, but to date everything I have ever said to you is dissagreed with, so do as you wish.
I would not be too concerned about such voltage drop as it is just for testing purposes.
🦦 You shouldn‘t touch the battery shelf ! Just bring the busbar out. With a huge huge huge huge cable, 🤗 To the mobile box for example and then make there what ever you want 🍁
Yeah, I think there is not enough space inside anyway. It will be so tight, almost impossible to handle any ring lugs, cables and connections. 70mm2 cable extensions might the way.
🦦 70 mil , 5m, 350 Amps 🫣 sounds good 🤗
What a problem to have, too much battery Capacity and no way to connect them all
It's not about the capacity though...
tzefix..🤣
42nd... 😂
Buddy do you ever consider this , Dementia sneaks in when are not ready for it !!!!! You can confuse yourself so easy with this method.🤔😳😖⚡️ . Remember the KISS rule👍🤨. Keep It Simple Silly !!!!! LOL.
ok, I have to ask. After you've done all of your voodoo that you do to batteries... Why don't you incorporate them into your overall battery capacity? I mean, I'm jelly - Taj-Ma-Haul is absolutely stacked with 112kWatt/hrs of batteries, but if I had land, I'd have a hell of a lot more than that... In fact, I have a goal of buying a MegaPack from Elon once I've found land to buy, just for me...
I will connect some of the batteries at some stage to my production battery. The others may stay separate for further testing. Too many options...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I suppose if you had a power outage or lots of shady days you could then simply connect what you wanted or needed to get through
@@paulcurtis5496 Yeah, I can charge one battery from another with the setup I have in place. It should give me enough power for at least one full week with everything (hot water, pool, EV, cooking, ...)
Shazam! That’s what I’m talking about!
I can last between 10-14 days depending on how hot/cold it is and conservation. I’m 100% electric, no propane. I have room for one more panel, I’m going to install a solar water heating panel and that may greatly help in the winter save electricity. It would augment my in-floor radiant heat and hot water heating.
Erster 😂
Siebter
🥈