*PLEASE READ CAREFULLY* THIS IS A TEST -- With this video, we are trialling a new way of doing things: the comments section below has been switched ON but will be *moderated by a third party*. The upshot? You get to leave a comment below the video and I don't get tied up by comment moderation to stay focussed on making the next video or podcast as well as keeping the Darko.Audio website and Patreon up to date. That means more content for EVERYONE. Our new third-party moderator is under strict instruction not to approve racist or sexist remarks, URLs, (the seeds of) conspiracy theories or the unsubstantiated ramblings of grumpy geezers.
I have previous gen Diamonds and they’re great. The soft dome tweeters are forgiving but still very detailed in my small room. Just an overall listenable and well-balanced sound.
One of the few sites that actually discusses system matching.Others would have you spend thousands and end up with a sound too dull or to bright and fatiguing.Subscribed.
If you can't afford all those components, I would recommend the Aiyima Tube T9 integrated DAC/Amp combo. Although it's a Class D amp, the tubes give it a warmth that suits the Diamond 12.1s perfectly. Another option that fits almost as well is the SMSL SA300 using the SDB EQ preset. Thats all you need if you're using a PC as a source. If you are running it stand alone then you can add the Wiim mini or Arylic S10 streamer for another 100 euros and you're done. I have run both the Diamond 12.1 and 12.2 speakers with these combos and they are really lovely. Yes I have both DAC/Amps and both streamers and both speakers. Yes, I have issues. My preference is using the PC as a source via USB. The audio quality is just delicious. If you wanted to improve it, then adding a sub for around 200-300 euros would be my next upgrade.
I've watched this review a couple of times and I have to say I truly appreciate the way you review these speakers and ensuring one thinks about the proper electronics to match with the Wharfedale. I went and listened to the Wharfedale 12.2s which sounded so warm and refined....Fingers crossed my current electronics (HK3250 from 90's, preamp Dayton Audio APA 150 @ 75 watts per channel, Denon turntable) are good fit with these speakers.
I'm in the process right now of putting together my first foray into the world of Hi-Fi. I've gone so far for the Marantz 6007 CD player and married it with the 6007 amp. So I'm now at the point of researching for speakers and so far these Wharfedales seem like they're right up there among the leading candidates. I'll need to get a bit more advice and look around a bit more before pulling the trigger on a purchase but videos like this are a huge help and a valuable resource, thank you!
@@neilrobinson142 Yeah I went with these 12.1's, very happy so far! I'll say this, it's the first time I ever felt bass frequencies hitting me in the chest outside of an arena show! 😄
I have a pair of Diamond 5 for over 30 years and I love them. They almost look the same. Separation is indeed very good. A bit more bass would be fine but overall I like them a lot.
I bought a pair! Matched with a [slightly warm] Arcam Solo which was 4 figures when new but £250 second hand. An excellent Arcam CD player built in, too - so a pretty good £500 system 😁
I gotta be honest I went to a hifi shop and I wasn't a big fan of the NAD unit I preferred the 150 dollar cheaper cambridge audio axa35 not as metallic sounding as the NAD, GREAT dynamics much more organic sounding and much more of a sit back and chill and listen to music for a few hours sound as opposed to a studying the music sound characteristic of the NAD my girlfriend loved the NAD though which I was surprised she heard the difference considering she isn't into audio stuff like that
Hi Following all your very good advices , I Bought the NAD C 316 BEE with the Bluesound NODE , BUT in my case using my previously purchased DALI OBERON 7 speakers , and the result was and is magic !!! It's amazing how that little amp drives the Oberon 7 !!! Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, it helped me a lot, I prefer the punch of the NAD class AB , and I sold my NAD C 368 80 W class D Amp with the inside Bluesound 2i card , I think the NAD C 316 BEE sounds much more harmonic to my ears and much warmer with the Oberon 7, Thank you very Much again !!!! Greetings from Argentina !!!
Hi John, thanks for these brilliant videos. I’m learning a lot. Re this one on the 12.1s, I’m gonna turn the question on its head: what speakers would you suggest I should pair the Powernode with? I’ve just bought a house back home in Scotland and am building a system from scratch so I want an all-in-one for now. I was considering the 12.2s but not so sure after watching this.
so I just bought a uturn turntable with built in preamp but i want the wharfedale adn not sure what route to go. not sure if the built in preamp is good enough for the speakers. also do you need a receiver as well? or is that NAD amp enough? sorry...im new to all of this.
this video is just a bargain for itself. Sorry I'm not an nativ english speaker;) As you are 30 years in HiFi universe I'd like to ask you if you know the 1990s range of Heco superior speakers. Types were 740, 840, 940 and 1040. I'm so curious what do you think bout' thes kind of speakers today. You do an excellent job in this channel, thank you. Cheers
Listening from my handphone , hooked to Sennheiser headphone . If that was the sound of the wharfadale , yes the bass is not low enough . In my terms , I call that mid bass , rather than the bass . If the speaker , or any bookshelf speakers , can reach lower frequency , than it will will sacrifice the mid bass sound section . The bass can become bloated . Remember , there is only one woofer . You can't have both world from one woofer .. Having said this , speaker like this , is ideal for bookshelf , because you can hook up to subwoofer to get to the lower section of bass . So you can have all sections of bass when subwoofer is used .
Correct. I had a very brief audition of tower 12.4 and it had great bass. No need of subwoofer for most music types ecxept hip-hop like low bass. But I aminterested in Evo series.
There is more to get for more money. Otherwise the Wharfedale Evo and Elysian series would not be a thing in the first place. I own both the Evo 4.2 and Diamond 12.0. There is simply a bit more detail in the Evo's than in the Diamonds. With an upright bass solo it is clear that the Evo's reveal a lot more in the low mids compared to the Diamonds, which adds to the realism of a performance.
Iam undecided since weeks between the diamonds 12.2. and dali oberon 3. Cant find a shop in munich who has the diamonds in their shops. Does anyone has a comparison between these2
I would say the 50:50 rule work well when it comes to home cinema, for 500 you get 4 speakers, with a center you are at 600-750. Driving that with a 400$ 7 channel AVR should work well, about 1000-1200 seems fair priced for a "full size" casual home cinema only missing the sub. The thing is, as soon you want a real upgrade, you have to upgrade both, speakers and amp. If you really want "good", more expensive stuff but missing budget a bit, i would recommend to partially build up your system. Good AVRs costed damn much money as i was going into HiFi/Home Cinema, the transition from analoge to digital began at AVRs (so soon upgrade needed), So instead of making directly a 5.1/7.1 or similar, i bought 2 proper front speakers and began with a "good" stereo setup for small part of the money a 5.1 in similar size would have cost. Within a few years i got damn fair priced used speakers of the same line as my existing ones and 2 good moments to get AVRs (for me as 7.1 receivers got affordable and were more or less fully digital and the 2nd. as Atmos was a thing) And AVRs are not much worse than dedicated stereo stuff, a proper AVR for above 1k can be even better than a 500$ stereo amp, in stereo ofc. So nowadays you can easily begin with a 600-700$ AVR and upgrade your speakers over time when the budget allows it or like in my case there was a good moment and offer. In overall i would say these small ones are more for home cinema, for 2.0 stereo you need bigger speakers for proper lows. I once tried IQ10, they were literally blown away by IQ30, only a slightly bigger case and driver made a huge difference, especially in the lower mids the IQ30 were much more present while the IQ10 barely sounded like a typical small satellite/sub system.
Great review. Thanks for the insights into matching the amp to the speakers. Would this setup shine for jazz? Given you r music choices I'm thinking it would.
I get caught out forgetting the stand when working out the costs of speakers. I tried buying a used pair off an auction site after I realised my faux pas, but they weren’t that great
Greetings from the very hot state of Texas good sir. I'm in the process of putting together a desktop system because that's all I can afford and mostly that's all I have room for. I'm going to be getting an SMS l a 300 amp for my desktop and I've got my choice of speakers narrowed down between the wharfedale 12.1 and some q acoustics 3020s, I found a scent on Amazon for $200 USD. Do you have any input? Eventually I do plan to add an 8-in sub but that might not be for another several months. Thank you in advance
This is going to maybe sound a bit stupid yo a lot of you, but would these make for an appropriate computer speaker upgrade? Or would being so close to them really just spoil their beauty?
If you're still wondering, these have to be powered by an amplifier, connected to it by speaker wire. Your computer would have to be connected to the amp. They won't go straight into the computer. They are great value speakers but you do lose a lot by not having proper placement and distance.
I've just purchased the 12.1 and seen alot of hate across the internet on them people saying the 12.0 is alot better. starting to regret my choice already! 😞
Dont. You made the right choice. The bigger the speaker in the diamond range, the better. I have the 12.2 and I was floored when I heard the 12.4. Difference is HUGE.
Erin Audio does some measurements on them whuch dont hold up to the sensitity ratings the specs states. These dont like 'loud' anything above -16bd before distortion comes into play. And although i except its only a mid sized 100w speaker, its bigger brother at 120W also has the same issue. See Alpha Audios measurements and review.
*PLEASE READ CAREFULLY* THIS IS A TEST -- With this video, we are trialling a new way of doing things: the comments section below has been switched ON but will be *moderated by a third party*. The upshot? You get to leave a comment below the video and I don't get tied up by comment moderation to stay focussed on making the next video or podcast as well as keeping the Darko.Audio website and Patreon up to date. That means more content for EVERYONE. Our new third-party moderator is under strict instruction not to approve racist or sexist remarks, URLs, (the seeds of) conspiracy theories or the unsubstantiated ramblings of grumpy geezers.
I always appreciate the precision of your word choices.
I have previous gen Diamonds and they’re great. The soft dome tweeters are forgiving but still very detailed in my small room. Just an overall listenable and well-balanced sound.
The 11 series with foam instead of rubber in the woofer?
One of the few sites that actually discusses system matching.Others would have you spend thousands and end up with a sound too dull or to bright and fatiguing.Subscribed.
If you can't afford all those components, I would recommend the Aiyima Tube T9 integrated DAC/Amp combo. Although it's a Class D amp, the tubes give it a warmth that suits the Diamond 12.1s perfectly. Another option that fits almost as well is the SMSL SA300 using the SDB EQ preset. Thats all you need if you're using a PC as a source. If you are running it stand alone then you can add the Wiim mini or Arylic S10 streamer for another 100 euros and you're done. I have run both the Diamond 12.1 and 12.2 speakers with these combos and they are really lovely. Yes I have both DAC/Amps and both streamers and both speakers. Yes, I have issues. My preference is using the PC as a source via USB. The audio quality is just delicious. If you wanted to improve it, then adding a sub for around 200-300 euros would be my next upgrade.
Nice suggestion...I was wondering if you still use this setup or have any thoughts on using either amps since the review. :D
I've watched this review a couple of times and I have to say I truly appreciate the way you review these speakers and ensuring one thinks about the proper electronics to match with the Wharfedale. I went and listened to the Wharfedale 12.2s which sounded so warm and refined....Fingers crossed my current electronics (HK3250 from 90's, preamp Dayton Audio APA 150 @ 75 watts per channel, Denon turntable) are good fit with these speakers.
I'm in the process right now of putting together my first foray into the world of Hi-Fi. I've gone so far for the Marantz 6007 CD player and married it with the 6007 amp. So I'm now at the point of researching for speakers and so far these Wharfedales seem like they're right up there among the leading candidates. I'll need to get a bit more advice and look around a bit more before pulling the trigger on a purchase but videos like this are a huge help and a valuable resource, thank you!
Which speakers did you go for?
@@neilrobinson142 Yeah I went with these 12.1's, very happy so far! I'll say this, it's the first time I ever felt bass frequencies hitting me in the chest outside of an arena show! 😄
I have a pair of Diamond 5 for over 30 years and I love them. They almost look the same. Separation is indeed very good. A bit more bass would be fine but overall I like them a lot.
They're not budget speakers. They are quality speakers with a great sound.
I bought a pair! Matched with a [slightly warm] Arcam Solo which was 4 figures when new but £250 second hand. An excellent Arcam CD player built in, too - so a pretty good £500 system 😁
£300 gets you a good amp, £200-300 for a matching DAC. That's how it was done in my day (the 90s) just replace the DAC with a CD player.
I think its better to compare WD12.1 to QA3020i rather than 3030i as per woofer size , price may be higher for 12.1 though.
You listen to some great music. And your reviews are exquisitely detailed. Thank you. Wanted to hear about you pairing these with a sub!
Plus cost of stands?
I gotta be honest I went to a hifi shop and I wasn't a big fan of the NAD unit I preferred the 150 dollar cheaper cambridge audio axa35 not as metallic sounding as the NAD, GREAT dynamics much more organic sounding and much more of a sit back and chill and listen to music for a few hours sound as opposed to a studying the music sound characteristic of the NAD my girlfriend loved the NAD though which I was surprised she heard the difference considering she isn't into audio stuff like that
A very good and inspiring review:) Thank you!
I love the cow sounds you insert in your videos.
Hi Following all your very good advices , I Bought the NAD C 316 BEE with the Bluesound NODE , BUT in my case using my previously purchased DALI OBERON 7 speakers , and the result was and is magic !!! It's amazing how that little amp drives the Oberon 7 !!! Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, it helped me a lot, I prefer the punch of the NAD class AB , and I sold my NAD C 368 80 W class D Amp with the inside Bluesound 2i card , I think the NAD C 316 BEE sounds much more harmonic to my ears and much warmer with the Oberon 7, Thank you very Much again !!!! Greetings from Argentina !!!
This speaker sound good with the SMSL AO300 :)
I always consider the type of music I want to play before choosing the components
Can you tell me how far out from the back wall did you place the 12.1's in your test -given the rear ports? Tks
Steljes ML30HD is a cracking amp with DAC , phono stage and valve buffer. Can be bought for €150 (rrp £400)
Had to look up ebullient! 😄
Hi John, thanks for these brilliant videos. I’m learning a lot. Re this one on the 12.1s, I’m gonna turn the question on its head: what speakers would you suggest I should pair the Powernode with? I’ve just bought a house back home in Scotland and am building a system from scratch so I want an all-in-one for now. I was considering the 12.2s but not so sure after watching this.
Are these better than my old Monitor Audio bronze BX2? I was looking also at the 12.3
Well done, thanks
Great analysis Johnn
Thanks for your review. Do you think pairing them w/ the Cambridge Audio AXR100 is a good idea?
Seems like they would be good for music making as monitors
holy we are listening almost the same！Mouse on mars，square pusher！
How does the smaller 4" Wharfedale 12.0 compare?
Would they be an upgrade on the Dali Spektor 2s?
Do you think that these speakers would be a good fit for the sonos amp?
Brilliant video, I will be pairing my wharfedales with an audiolab 6000a, biwired, will tell you how it goes.
How did these speakers match up? I have the audiolab 6000A too, and have struggled to sync match speakers.
Hi John how does wharfedale 12.1 or 225 stand against the klipsch rp600m and dali oberon series and is Foward sound a good thing
Was price your main reason for reviewing these over the 12.2 or diamond 225⁉️
so I just bought a uturn turntable with built in preamp but i want the wharfedale adn not sure what route to go. not sure if the built in preamp is good enough for the speakers.
also do you need a receiver as well? or is that NAD amp enough? sorry...im new to all of this.
this video is just a bargain for itself. Sorry I'm not an nativ english speaker;) As you are 30 years in HiFi universe I'd like to ask you if you know the 1990s range of Heco superior speakers. Types were 740, 840, 940 and 1040. I'm so curious what do you think bout' thes kind of speakers today. You do an excellent job in this channel, thank you. Cheers
Nice review, Darco. If these speakers go well with NAD amps, does that mean that they would also pair well with Marantz amps? Thanks.
Oh yes... definitely. A lot of dealers here are matchung the 12.2s with Marantz and they sound out of this world.
transistor amps sounds very similar to the next one. atleast in the same price bracket at normal listening levels
Have you tried vacuum suspension instead of using doorstops ?
Listening from my handphone , hooked to Sennheiser headphone .
If that was the sound of the wharfadale , yes the bass is not low enough . In my terms , I call that mid bass , rather than the bass .
If the speaker , or any bookshelf speakers , can reach lower frequency , than it will will sacrifice the mid bass sound section . The bass can become bloated . Remember , there is only one woofer . You can't have both world from one woofer ..
Having said this , speaker like this , is ideal for bookshelf , because you can hook up to subwoofer to get to the lower section of bass . So you can have all sections of bass when subwoofer is used .
Correct. I had a very brief audition of tower 12.4 and it had great bass. No need of subwoofer for most music types ecxept hip-hop like low bass. But I aminterested in Evo series.
There is more to get for more money. Otherwise the Wharfedale Evo and Elysian series would not be a thing in the first place. I own both the Evo 4.2 and Diamond 12.0. There is simply a bit more detail in the Evo's than in the Diamonds. With an upright bass solo it is clear that the Evo's reveal a lot more in the low mids compared to the Diamonds, which adds to the realism of a performance.
@@andreassouth1523 The treble is smooth and clear, not harsh. :)
Iam undecided since weeks between the diamonds 12.2. and dali oberon 3. Cant find a shop in munich who has the diamonds in their shops.
Does anyone has a comparison between these2
Really helpful
Wharfedale diamond 12.1/12.2 or elac debut reference/6.2? Can you help me to decide? Best regards
Hi Darko. Thanks for a very inclsive video.
How do these compare with an old shool Mordaunt Short MS 300s. Any thoughts?
I would say the 50:50 rule work well when it comes to home cinema, for 500 you get 4 speakers, with a center you are at 600-750. Driving that with a 400$ 7 channel AVR should work well, about 1000-1200 seems fair priced for a "full size" casual home cinema only missing the sub. The thing is, as soon you want a real upgrade, you have to upgrade both, speakers and amp.
If you really want "good", more expensive stuff but missing budget a bit, i would recommend to partially build up your system. Good AVRs costed damn much money as i was going into HiFi/Home Cinema, the transition from analoge to digital began at AVRs (so soon upgrade needed), So instead of making directly a 5.1/7.1 or similar, i bought 2 proper front speakers and began with a "good" stereo setup for small part of the money a 5.1 in similar size would have cost. Within a few years i got damn fair priced used speakers of the same line as my existing ones and 2 good moments to get AVRs (for me as 7.1 receivers got affordable and were more or less fully digital and the 2nd. as Atmos was a thing)
And AVRs are not much worse than dedicated stereo stuff, a proper AVR for above 1k can be even better than a 500$ stereo amp, in stereo ofc. So nowadays you can easily begin with a 600-700$ AVR and upgrade your speakers over time when the budget allows it or like in my case there was a good moment and offer.
In overall i would say these small ones are more for home cinema, for 2.0 stereo you need bigger speakers for proper lows. I once tried IQ10, they were literally blown away by IQ30, only a slightly bigger case and driver made a huge difference, especially in the lower mids the IQ30 were much more present while the IQ10 barely sounded like a typical small satellite/sub system.
Great review. Thanks for the insights into matching the amp to the speakers. Would this setup shine for jazz? Given you r music choices I'm thinking it would.
I get caught out forgetting the stand when working out the costs of speakers. I tried buying a used pair off an auction site after I realised my faux pas, but they weren’t that great
Greetings from the very hot state of Texas good sir. I'm in the process of putting together a desktop system because that's all I can afford and mostly that's all I have room for. I'm going to be getting an SMS l a 300 amp for my desktop and I've got my choice of speakers narrowed down between the wharfedale 12.1 and some q acoustics 3020s, I found a scent on Amazon for $200 USD. Do you have any input? Eventually I do plan to add an 8-in sub but that might not be for another several months. Thank you in advance
I only wish I could hear the things that you hear in such detail !
2 YEARS LATER JEJEJE: Was this setup better than the one with the Mission Lx-2 mk2?
Are those Tannoys in the background?
Whats the sensitivity per watt of the Wharfedale Diamond 12's? I am asking as I have a tube amp for my primary amp.
88db
Hi! Great channel and videos!
How these compare with the DALI Spektor 2?
Cheers!
I have the Dali Spektor 2s and thought they were great but, I have also the Diamond 12.1 and personally I much prefer the Wharfedales.
$250-ish front end setup = Loxjie A30 + Raspberry Pi 4
Just ordered the 12.0 + Loxjie A30, also habe the XTZ 8.17 Sub available :) i think this will be pretty good for a desktop.
i use my diamonds with the cambridge audio azur 640a
are the speakers powered or passive?
This is going to maybe sound a bit stupid yo a lot of you, but would these make for an appropriate computer speaker upgrade? Or would being so close to them really just spoil their beauty?
If you're still wondering, these have to be powered by an amplifier, connected to it by speaker wire. Your computer would have to be connected to the amp. They won't go straight into the computer. They are great value speakers but you do lose a lot by not having proper placement and distance.
There lot to learn from
I've just purchased the 12.1 and seen alot of hate across the internet on them people saying the 12.0 is alot better. starting to regret my choice already! 😞
Dont. You made the right choice. The bigger the speaker in the diamond range, the better. I have the 12.2 and I was floored when I heard the 12.4. Difference is HUGE.
I've seen more love than hate. How do YOU ike them?
Erin Audio does some measurements on them whuch dont hold up to the sensitity ratings the specs states. These dont like 'loud' anything above -16bd before distortion comes into play. And although i except its only a mid sized 100w speaker, its bigger brother at 120W also has the same issue. See Alpha Audios measurements and review.
Yes but it's again how good are your ears from 20 to 20 and what your ears here.
I heard there's another british brand called neat acoustics like d iota alpha and sx3 really really good but it's expensive
"You know that was the whitest list of music I ever railed off in one of these videos" LMAO
Be proud 🎉
I wish someone would judge speakers in absolute terms. Otherwise a £10 pair could be categorised as fantastic.
Pair them with the Sony STR Dh190 with bluetooth...system is now under $500
5:09 that is the whitest list of music - why on earth is the terrible?
Would the wharfdales pair with a vintage music fidelity B1 amplifier?