You are the only mechanic on UTube that shows and explains in detail what, how and why. No beer drinking, backs of people doing God knows what and jerking around like a pack of gorillas. You are the professional. Thanks Mike.
Always great to watch your videos Mike. Calmly explained without cursing or condescension or slick editing to make it appear as though you never struggle or forget something. Always get what I need; every time. A true gentleman. Thank you for all you do.
Thanks a lot man! I've built Harley, and car engines for 30-plus years, but I have learned a lot from watching you and your techniques. Really appreciate it!
this is such a great lesson and timely for me too since I have to replace the cam on this '81 WG I just got. I really love how you tell us the little details of what you're doing, like when you're pulling the cover back off and you say, "I'm holding the cam gear with my thumb..." - seems like a little thing, maybe obvious but for newbies to a cam chest like me those details are music to my ears. From watching your videos I'm building up the confidence to do this job. Thanks so much Mike you're the best!
Thank You. I do try to show the things that are done "automatically" by people who do them often. Word to the wise for you: Be very careful selecting a cam for your 81. There are certain differences in the cylinder heads that have to be allowed for. Check with the manufacturer of the cam. Notice in the literature, that it addresses 81's.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you Mike - yes I've noticed when looking for a bolt-in replacement that nearly every manufacturer states, "bolt-in except 80/81" but none explain why. I know the guides changed from steel to cast iron in 1980 and also the length changed to 2" in 1981. Beyond that I assume the manufacturer will know so thanks for the advice I will speak to the manufacturer before I buy a replacement.
This video along w/ comments helped a ton. Hard to believe the timing marks on left don’t have nothing to w/ the ones on the right. Now we know. Awesome as per usual. Thank you sir.
I’m digging how calm you are building these old Bikes. I enjoy wrenching on my Ol’ Shovelhead, as I find it relaxing. Looks like you enjoy it as well. Thanks for passing on the wisdom. By far best build videos I’ve found yet...
Thank you. Kind words. I love these bikes and we're trying to show the enjoyment of exactly that. If I'm not calm, I wait 'til I am to work on something.
Great video! This shows very well that a gasket has a big influence on clearance in the engine in some cases! Never realized that fully I guess, also using non-factory gaskets (silicone bead gaskets etc.) might change things considerably. I really learned something today, thanks!
Mike- I figured it out. A shim was stuck onto the thrust washer. I got it apart, cleaned everything up, and installed a smaller shim- problem solved. The end play currently reads 9 thousands. I may install a slightly thinner shim for a bit more end play. Thanks so much for the advice- your instructional videos are the very best!
Thanks Mike, I'm waiting for my stuff to come back from chrome and will check this rear wheel width when tires off. anywho, thanks again for all the help you do .
Finally found some one I can watch and understand,I have built many diesl engines,Cat Cummins Mack International et al,but this shovelhead is driving me crazy! S&S 80 inch jugs and pistons,Andrews cam S&S Super B and everything is great runs like a bear,my problem is sumping oil!!!!!!it'll dump half a quart if I dont ride it everyday,good excuse to ride it everyday,tried different hose routing,raising the breather hosee,adding a catch can and it still sumps!breather gear new with cam install,timing marks right on,points set everything cool 'cept the sumping,I'm ready to put a diaper onit!GREAT VIDEOS!!
There is a comment a couple above yours. Make sure you're not overfilling the tank. Always leave room for the breather to put some air in there. Watch it run with the oil cap off to make sure the oil is returning to the tank.
Hey Mike....this is Germany. Thanx a lot for your Videos. I keep a lot of Money for spending it for Alcohol :) It´s a Joke !!! I have a 1977 Shovel and I make all by myself. Cause of your help. Thank you very much ....Bro...!!
Excellent video as always,Mike.. Gotta save it on my phone for the next rebuild me an my friends do! Had to go through the manual to do mine,but you made it SO much easier to understand.. I appreciate what you do on here! Great stuff,my friend.. Love my ol 72,80" now!!
Love these videos. I just aquired a 1976 1200 Shovelhead. It was last riden 9 years ago. Now it smokes when we start it. Which has been going away, but leaks oil. Im about to do this procedure as well. Thank you very much for your videos.
just found your channel, pretty cool. I like the real world instruction. no edits, not always right the first time. just like the rest of us.. thanks I know that putting this stuff on you tube takes some time.
These is a great vid series! I have this very motor sitting on my bench now that needs quite a bit of work. I have a sporty trike that I built and I think in the future I'm going to build another trike and use the shovel as the powerplant.
every video is really worth watching. I don't have an old Harley. now i'm thinking about getting one. oh I would have loved to do an apprenticeship with you .... cool guy! Keep doing what you doing 🤙
Here in England I enjoy you video's, I have a 1975 Shovelhead and I have learned a lot, I'm a dyed in the wool BSA guy and I'm not a fan of Evo's at all, but the Shovel really does it for me.
Go to the home page of our TH-cam channel. Then, click on "Playlists." There are several headings. Click on Shovelhead Engine Stuff. You may have to use a computer rather than a phone.
Lots of great tips, like how you you put the socket extension in the socket backwards so you could use it as a driver, never would have thought of that
You have great videos Mike!! I worked on aircraft for 22 years, and was always told that if you double click a while torquing , you are over torquing that bolt, screw, cap, etc. Can you expound on that?
Great videos....you explain each process perfectly.On this,I would have liked to see you turn the motor over by hand at the end,to ensure all well and good with cam,breather and cover installed.My shovel tightened up after 2/3rd revolution.On rechecking,finding nothing,reassemble..... and same problem? With a new cam and bearing,breather,timing cover bush etc. it was found that the genuine cone cover was at fault. It had been bored incorrectly (about 0.025" out) for the bush,so cam ran out of alignment.....which would explain the excessive wear in there and the thrust washer blue with heat and welded to the cam! Just one of those freaky instances. It taught me to rotate everything by hand at each stage of assembly,to ensure all is good. That cover now hangs on a nail from the rafters! A second hand cover was found,re bushed,honed to suit cam, and all was perfect. Thanks again for these very watchable and educational videos. God bless.
I agree. When I look things over, it's easy to tell they were in good working order. But rotation of everything to check is good and necessary practice. And, thank you for the compliment.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks.Just thought it would have been a good point for the less experienced builders out there,myself included,as all seemed perfect for almost a full rotation,as mentioned.......then suddenly all very tight. Could have been easily missed,and a costly lesson. Keep up the good work and ride safe.PS. The yellow Knuck is outstanding....
@@pacificmike9501 Not criticising your great videos or work,sharing an experience of the importance of paying attention,especially to the minor details......
Great video as usual Mike. Thank you very much. I do have one question if you don't mind though. I never see you use thread locker. Why is that? Thanks again.
Mike, This video series has become invaluable to me and extremely relevant to my situation. My Dad passed and I brought home his 14k mile Dyna Glide Shovelhead that's been sitting for 30 years. I feel like following your videos are the guidance I need since I'm still learning about what makes a Shovelhead work. I'm wondering...what your technique is for getting to crankcase so clean? What do you think about trying to get it to fire up before taking anything apart?
I'd check things out very carefully first. I'd crank the motor over by hand with the spark plugs out. How about the oil. I'd probably freshen an awful lot of stuff first. There are no Shovelhead Dyna Glides.
@@pacificmike9501 My Dad's old Super Glide (Dyna oops) is still "new" to me as you noticed. How did you get that motor so clean? Brakecleaner? degreaser? brass brushes using either? Thanks for all the advice..I've checked all the pre-start up boxes and then some. Is there such a thing as priming the oil in a Shovel?
Hey Mike, thank you for putting out many video's on all different model bikes! I've learned a lot, I have a question many you can help me with this one. it's a 73 FLH, after I set my cam, pinion and breath gear and all my timing marks all line up right, does the fly wheel need to be on the lower dot which is the TDC or on the advance center line, or neither, and just adjust my points accordingly ? boy would love to hear from you! there really aren't a lot of old timers that know about older bikes, between watching TATRO and Mike's garage, your more thorough and easy to follow. thanks again for making these awesome videos!
Thank you for the kind words. The timing marks on the flywheel won't line up with the timing marks in your camchest. Once those are set, and the cam cover is back on, bring up the advance timing mark (the straight vertical line) on the flywheel. This must be done with the front piston on its compression stroke. Both the intake and the exhaust valves on the front cylinder, should be closed. Read it in your service manual. With what they say and what I say, it should be fine.
Hey mike, great vid! I’m installing an Andrews A2 in my 72 shovel. My pinion has two marks. I aligned the breather gear and pinion gear marks before removing cam. But the pinion has a mark at 12 o’clock and about 2 o’clock. Is that correct?
Problem is, I can't see it from here. But, it sounds like you have an earlier pinion gear. Looking straight at it, the mark at two o'clock would align with the circuit breaker gear on a '69 and earlier motor. The mark straight up will line up on your cam gear. Check this out very carefully before starting your motor. I think it's a case of mix and match.
Depends on the gasket. The manufacturer's recommendations should be followed. The thick ones usually are installed dry. They compress and make a seal without any help. The thin ones, well, maybe a little sealant. Oil pumps can be difficult. I like white lithium on them. You need to find the products you like. We just show how I do it.
I was wondering how you removed the seal too... LoL well I guess I'm going see if you have another video on it. I have replaced them before but I was just curious on how you removed them. The way you removed the main drive gear seal on the transmission was awesome. I'm thinking about doing it the same way just smaller screws.
Mike, love your channel. I have a 2 part question. I have a 1966 FLH that the previous owner installed an ss oil pump-love it. Noticed that he has plugged off the primary chain oiler on the pump and removed the hose feeding it to the chain. He left the fitting in the inner primary but did not plug it, it is open to the atmosphere. When I pulled the outer primary off there was a small amount of oil in it, maybe a couple ounces? #1-Should I plug the fitting in the inner primary and add oil to a sealed primary, if so how much oil should I put in. #2-Should I install the fitting in the oil pump, run a new oil line and run it like stock? I'm not sure how this would not eventually overfill my primary, I don"t understand the oil return back to the crankcase set up either. Please let me know your opinion on this, I cant seem to get any definitive answers from any mechanic I know. Thanks, Bill
I explain this on one of our videos (oil lines on a Shovelhead). I recommend setting it up like the factory did. A lot of people think they can eliminate the original oiling system to the primary. By putting a couple of inches deep oil in the primary, iit leaks out and never does oil the primary chain like it needs. If you look in your service manual ( probably the 59-69 book) along with our video, it should become quite clear. If not, write in again and we'll go over it again. The stock system works fine. That's the way it was designed, it doesn't leak everywhere and it runs a dry clutch.
Hi Mike , thanks for all your videos on you tube they are very helpful. I have a question about end play .As you discuss in the video Cam end play should be 5 thou . I have done that but find myself questioning myself as on the Net and forums talk about 10- 15 thou end play with Andrews Cams as they expand on Heat. Confused to say the least .just don't want things to bind once Running. .
Good question. I don't remember what your bike is. The generator type motors call for the 1-5 thou type of end play. Sorry. Too tight for me. The later manuals (alternator type motors) call for much more. I favor loose over tight any day in a motor. The late manuals (Evos) say enormous camshaft endplay. I believe most of them didn't even have a cam shim in them. .011, .012, .014, .015. All good to me. If you have a Knuckle or Pan, or even a generator Shovel, you can run it a little tighter. I hope this puts you at ease a bit.
Where I live, winter riding is great. Very little snow below the mountains, and, if I want to go to the mountains, I wait for it to melt and ride where there isn't any.
hey mike, this is Dave, jude;s husband. got your mail on the rear centerline rim. we have a 73 flh. do you know what centerline or harley road king aluminum solid wheel would fit our electraglide. we have the 2 inch rotor hole. i needed to watch this video for help on cam washer placement. your video's are always helpful. thanks a bunch.
Thank You. That wheel took a great deal of adaptation. I used one of Paughco's super long axles. I used sealed bearings, like the wheel came with, only 3/4" rather than 1" i.d. I had to use a very late rotor for the 2.2? center hole. I made my own caliper mount and spacers. It was quite a project.
Hi mike.. great channel.. in the Harley manual it shows cam end play is to be set between 1 to 5 thou.. why are you setting end play at 11 thou ? I’ve set my 1977 flh shovel cam end play at 4 thou is that going to be a problem
A little too tight for me. A seized cam is really ugly. Be sure and pay attention to what service manual you're using and the cam grinder's recommendations.
I have an 83 flht that I am rebuilding. I dont like how hard it has to work to keep up with traffic on FL highways so I am looking at replacing the the cam, rear sprocket and trans sprocket. Do you have any recommendations on what I should get to give me the power and performance needed to keep up with the flow and not kill the bike? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
A couple of teeth on the trans sprocket usually will do it. The five speed gives you a low enough first gear. A nice hydraulic cam (first step, nothing too wild unless you build everything else to match), but I don't push brands. You'll have to decide what compression you're running to pick a cam. Use a good set of aftermarket hydraulic lifters. If possible, a more free flowing exhaust system, better carburetor and ignition system. This should all be planned carefully.
Love the videos but I do have a question when u have the cam installed are you on TDC? I'm working on a 78 shovel head and it's a rebuilt engine but had to remove cam gear cover due to engine setting but with it off TDC marking on flywheel never has the cam and crank and the breather gear line up
Don't try to find a correlation there. They aren't interested each other. Don't let the right side even converse with the left side. I know it sounds silly, but it is true. TDC is with the flywheel mark (Front cylinder) with both intake and exhaust valve lifters on the front cylinder in the bottom position.
Hey mike, got your email on the rear centerline rim. i wrote down all the info you gave me and will be looking into it. my axel is at the salt lake chrome with some other parts, as we are in northern wyoming and he has done good stuff for me in the past. i think the previous owner who is dead now so i cant converse with him as yet, put on a wider rim. i measured the out side to outside and its like 4 3/8 wide with calipers across the outside. i thought 73 flh's had a 3 inch rim. so when the axel comes back i'll measure the length and see if its a longer than stock. we purchased the bike in 2008 and the previous owner who bought it new did some stuff to it like S&S rods and flywheel for 4 1/2 stroke and S&S pistons. Offhand, do you know what stock harley rim width for 1973 flh was. I have to get a new tire anyways, thats why i was contemplating that rim i saw on yours. I'll remeasure the rim inside when the tire is off. I guess that rim like yours would work on the 73 flh if i change the bearings to accept the 3/4 axel and have to wait and see what my axel length is when it comes back. and i would have to fabricate brake brackets. that is a 16 inch rim? that frame in video you have the shovel head engine and that harley centerline rim on, is that a 70's shovelhead FLh frame? thanks Mike. Dave in northern wyoming
Yes, stock rim width is 3". I did so much stuff there, I think yours is a little simpler. Stock axle is long enough and should work fine after you've installed bearings with 3/4" i.d. I used an earlier round swingarm. It was something I always wanted on the bike. The brake was the big part of the job. The caliper and rotor are off of a (I believe) 2008 Dresser. The center hole has to be 2.2?. I made the caliper bracket from scratch.
Hahahahaha Really Mike, fart jokes,running out of assembly lube and a technical issue with your high tech lighting system...What sort of a hotel are you running here...I do so love your videos mate,I can totally relate to you and your workshop...What shop do you use for your spare parts,if it’s not a rude question?And where is your donations page?You are soooo worth it..Regards from Australia 🇦🇺..Dave
Thank You. And backatcha. I order from all of the major suppliers and haunt the swap meets. We're not asking for donations. I love the generosity, but there are people in greater need that need all of our attention. We'll make it. Thank you again. You are truly appreciated.
Mike, you’re the Bob Ross of Harley. Your paint is your wisdom and pallet is that of an old raw hide mallet your canvas are beautiful motorcycles. I do have a question. Could you please elaborate on why you like more rather than less endplay on the camshaft? Really appreciate it.
Sure. The case swells, taking up clearance. Always remember, aluminum swells in ALL directions. I've taken new Evos apart that had so much end play in their cam, it was amazing. But, I always go along with the cam grinder"s recommendations. Thank You.
Before you timed the cam, pinion, And breather gear did you put front cylinder on top dead center I'm setting mine up and I want to make sure I'm doing it right? Or does it not matter as long as the pinion gear timing mark is up?
It's not set up that way. Just do it, like you said, by the mark on your pinion gear. Don't overthink this one. The pinion gear only goes on in one position. It's a little maddening when you think about it. Line up the mark on the pinion gear with one of the marks on the cam gear, with the other mark on the cam gear lining up with the breather. Just be sure of your end plays.
Nope. You don't time your cam and breather gear to the flywheel marks. You time to the the pinion gear which only assembles one way on to the pinion shaft. Mark on pinion gear points straight up. It lines up with one mark on the cam gear. The other mark on the cam gear lines up with the mark on the breather gear. Now, before starting the engine, rotate it to time the ignition to the timing mark on the flywheel when the front cylinder is on its compression stroke. Both valves are closed and the piston is coming up. Its hard to accept the fact that the timing marks on the right side don't reference to the timing marks on the left side.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks Mike! That makes sense. I'm getting tripped up on my rear cylinder pushrod adjustment, because I'm not getting the small dot in the viewing window. I thought it was due to my cam being out of sync. I'll keep at it 👍
I think you're looking for a problem you don't have. Set up your camchest. All this is on the right side. Now , adjust your valves and set your timing (using the flywheel "advance" mark, which is a straight line). This is done off of your front cylinder. I'm assuming you're not dealing with a "dual point" setup. Just a question for you: You've picked an Andrews "B" grind cam. Are your valves set up for that much valve lift?
I used the headless bolt alignment method, time and frustration saver! Question, 3 types of gaskets are available for the cam cover, paper (.031 thickness specified), paper with bead (thickness not specified), and rubber covered metal with bead. (thickness not specified) The choice may impact the cam gear end play? The old one was paper, no bead. I'll most likely stick with that unless there's a strong recco to change to one of the other options. Thanks for the vids and in advance for reading this.
The point of using any specific gasket is to end up with the endplays (cam and breather gear) that you want. Set the breather gear acoording to the service manual and the cam according to the cam grinder. If you use the same kind of gasket each time, you'll more easily be in the ballpark on your requirements.
thanks. If I am understanding, the manual says for Cam gear end play .001 - .005. Measuring mine, I can't get .0015 in there.Current spacer size is .075. My choice is a space of .070 so I will end up with about .005. Correct path? @@pacificmike9501
For both measurements I used the gasket that was on the bike when I began the operation. I'm waiting for a new one. I measured the thickness of the one I'm using in it and it is .030. when I measured the cam gear end play I also put the cover back on and torqued it down to the 80-in pounds. My take is they're both a bit tight. So I bought the appropriate sized spacers. I have a second super glide exactly like this one. I'm going to put it on the lift and measure the cam gear and play for a point of reference.
mike, if you need a shim surface ground at any time to a specific thickness , send it to me ill grind it to what you want anytime for free. i have a full machine shop with lathes and grinders and verticle mill. thanks again for your videos. Dave
Mike--i have a question. I am in the process of installing an Andrews J grind cam in my '77 FXE. In measuring en-play, it seems to be good without a spacer ( only the trust washer is installed). Is it OK to run the cam without a spacer? Thanks.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks. Yes, I've measured it with a new gasket installed. I can't detect any movement in the cam w/o a shim installed but the thrust washer moves freely--so, it obviously isn't jammed against the washer.
You have me a little bit concerned. '77 early bikes had different gears in the camchest than late '77 and up. The late cam gear has a groove on its face and the early does not. Make sure you have that right. Next, is this the original cam cover that came with the engine? Is the breather gear shimmed correctly. Next comes the face on the bushing pressed into the cam cover. Is the cam bearing seated into the crankcase all the way? Finally, there are different cam cover gaskets made by different manufacturers. Some are thicker than others. Remember, that camshaft is better a little loose, than too tight. I'm truly sorry I can't see it from here.
question ...... on a panhead ... all the timing marks gears in place, if i drop the Distributor in place with the timing marks to the points TDC ... does that guarantee that the front cylinder, with the flywheel mark is the correct TDC for the timing order ? and not 180 de grease off?
Nope. Once all the timing gears are in order, forget about them. Now, we'll time the distributor. Rotate the engine to bring up the timing mark and watch the valve lifters go up and down for the front cylinder. When the flywheel timing mark comes up and the points cam is getting close, and both front valves are closed, you are there. You are timing on the slash mark which is the Timing advance mark. Look in your service manual. This is with the timing fully advanced.
Sounds like someone has done some work on that breather and has retimed it. Better have it checked out. By the way, is that motor maybe a stroker? You may have more questions.
I'm just wondering why you couldn't smack the cam cover with a soft mallet to get it loose? I mean instead of using the puller. The manual is awesome. But it doesn't always tell the whole story. Great video by the way!
No. Everything in the camchest times off of the pinion gear. It all matters, but you arrive there by timing the camchest, then the flywheel mark and then the ignition. The pinion gear only installs in one position.
Some of that stuff only goes together one way. Flywheels onto the crankpin. Pinion shaft onto right flywheel. Pinion gear onto pinion shaft. Now it goes into the cases. When the pistons come up, the timing mark on the left flywheel comes up in the window. Other than adjusting the ignition, it's all timed. Oh, now you want the gears in the camchest. Timing marks on pinion gear (which only goes on one way). Now slide the gears in place as per the picture in your service manual.
can you do a short video on how to check your cam shaft bearing to see if it is bad and also do I have to check the inplay on the breather gear if I'm just changing the cam cover I'm changing it because I've already put in 2 cam seals and it's still leaking i don't know if where the cam seal fits is to scratched up and causing it to leak or if the cam shaft bearing is bad and causing the cam shaft to wobble and breaking the seal of the cam seal causing it to leak if the cam shaft bearing is ok I can just replace the cover any help would be appreciated I have a 79 shovel 74 cubic inch it was rebuilt the last time in 2014.
It's no big deal to change the cam bearing. The tools are specific to the job. I can't tell you how many guys would bring their bike in the back of a truck, with the cam cover off. It only takes a few minutes to r&r the cam bearing. Breather end play should always be checked and set as per your service manual. Be respectful at the shop. If they're willing to help you, you'll learn a couple things while you're there. Replacing the cam bearing is the same all the way through Evos.
Pacific Mike thanks Mike that's a lot of help, unfortunately I'm on disability and can't afford to take it to the shop so I have to do most everything myself that's why I like your videos because they show everything in a straight forward way and. the information you gave is greatly appreciated I have a clymer manual that has general info on shovelheads so I'll check that it should have the tolerance on the breather gear inplay thanks again
The cam bearing should be replaced if there is any question. Replacing one when the cam is replaced is standard procedure. It's simple to do with the proper remover and installer. Otherwise, should not be attempted. And, proper breather gear endplay is equally important. I know this stuff gets expensive. I'm actually trying to help. Sometimes, not spending some money, will make you spend more in the long run. I get it.
Pacific Mike thank you Mike, I save all your videos because they are so helpful I know you've been at it a long time and that's the people I listen to when I have questions wisdom and experience are important to me you have my respect my friend and thanks I look forward to the next video you put out as I'm sure many others do also keep at my friend I know you love what you do and so do I.
Hi Mike On a 69 generator shovel is it possible to have the breather gear 180 out . All timing marks where lined up. Went to kick it over to make sure oil pump was working now before bolting up the cam cover and the breather gear slid out of alignment. I was able to kick it over and slide breather back into alignment. Just didn't know if it can be 180 out.?? Thanks
First off, don't do that. You can rotate things slowly by hand before pushrods and sparkplugs are installed. The cam should be supported by the cam cover, If your gears are all lined up properly, they are because the marks are all in place. They only go together one way. You're probably just fine.
@@pacificmike9501 Hi Mike . The pump stop working. Pulled the outer pump cover and the gears were not turning so pulled the cam cover and the key way was laying in the bottom.. pulled the pump put it all back together and now have oil pumping. Not sure how the key way came out all 3 looked fine. Thanks. Love your knowledge and TH-cam videos. Thanks Mark
You must be speaking of a cone motor Shovelhead. There is no high and low side. There is a misaligned center bolt which can be tapped on with a very small brass hammer.
@@pacificmike9501 it does got the cone but I meant to say was wide side and narrow side maybe do u have a video of doin one? I marked the plate but wanna set the points to spec
Very little. The manufacturong techniques changed a bit, but the 80" flywheels are close to the same design and can be used in either motor. The crankcases are different to fit the different topends. That's a real short quick answer. They do not interchange.
As I said before, you have the experience, but I don't understand why you would install a new cam seal, until everything else was completely done? The installation, and removal of the cam cover can damage a brand new seal.
Pacific Mike . I’ve found a breather very hard to pull out.and a small piece of metal near to it, is it possible that the cover was too tight or the shim too big that press the breather in to the housing?
@@pacificmike9501 Sorry Mike, I'm new to your channel and just saw an episode where you asked us to do the obvious and give the details of the bike. I am currently working on a 1976 ,1200 FLH Shovelhead that is missing quite a few parts, but what I am mainly interested in is the stock cam gear, the breather valve, the rods lifters lifter blocks the tappets, the covers for the rods and so on. If you could make a suggestion as to where I might find a reputable parts house. Thank you. I also have a 57 pan that needs so head work, more on that later.
Put the oil pump gear spacer and pinion gear in, went through all the steps with the breather gear and clearance for camshaft. Gear on the camshaft is out further than the pinion gear by almost 1/8”. ????
I can't see it from here. Is the cam bearing seated in the case? Is the cam gear pressed all the way onto the cam? How thick is the cam shim? Is the "cam plate," the "bow tie" looking piece? What year is your motor? Is the camshaft correct for the motor. Big groove on the face of the gear for late 77 and later motor. No groove for 70-early 77 motor.
@@pacificmike9501 After looking at it and guessing at the measurement i got a straight edge and gauges and checked it, the cam gear is .056 out further than the pinion gear and breather gear. I am using a new set of S&S cases after i found that the right side case i was going to use was cracked. The cam bearing is seated correct, got the cam gear spaced correct , and after three tries i got the clearance for the cam shaft. The cam plate is indexed as you showed in the video, and the cam shim is .065. Cam is Andrews "C" for a 1974 shovelhead, also have a Andrews "7 grind" cam and they both fit alike. Everything was ordered for a 1974 shovelhead, hot kit, and cases.
On the 88 evo I got the rear tappet guide out and could see serious erosion on outboard edge of front intake lobe as well as inboard edge of it's tappet roller. I am guessing you would say that that metal has been turned into dust bit by bit and been running thru my bottom end rollers before getting caught in oil filter. This action will have degraded the ground finishes on the components and failure has already begun. Count 180k as great and just rebuild from crankpin on out. Would I be correct in this assumption? Would like to just replace cam and go on towards 200k. Bad idea?
@@pacificmike9501 will get back to you on that. So far I have project - creep. Next will be checking out oil pump. Manual says the pinion and cams are in color coded set of 6 different colors. Only want to replace cam so I need to extract it to notice color so match in diametral pitch is maintained. Then may as well check pinion shaft run out. Yes. Wow. 3 out of 4 tappets in like new condition after 180k. Pays to change oil and filter often. Thanks for responding and happy holidays.
@@pacificmike9501 I am back on the road with that 180k evo motor again. New cam and lifters, same cam gear, oil pump seal and gaskets new, same pushrods, new seals and gaskets, replaced cylinder base gaskets, new rings, ball honed cylinders as they measured well. Cycle-rama reworked the heads with guides, grinding, and spring shims as needed. Other than new seals and gaskets through out I did no further work. Went with a cam of same base circle and lift but longer duration. With s and s shorty and a proprietary cam design by cycle-rama this motor is spunky. What a powerfull machine compared to when I bought it at 0 miles. I check pinion shaft with tenths indicator. .0002 up and down near to bearing and .0003 run out at out side end. So to re cap the gear chest and top end were cleaned up in their entirety. Some hot assed mid Florida road work makes me real confident that the thing has many miles left. It idles better than it has it has in a few years. I did not think about the higher rate of fuel consumption. Haven't checked but I am fueling more often than before! Will evo cases put up with performance increases or are they prone to cracking? May want to go back to stock grind on cam. It is cool to be so quick sometime but to go slow I have to get the Indian out now. I am 63 and live in a metropolis, do I need the fast cam? Yes. Last you heard from me was "i will get back to you"and there it is. Your videos are cool. Like them
You are the only mechanic on UTube that shows and explains in detail what, how and why. No beer drinking, backs of people doing God knows what and jerking around like a pack of gorillas. You are the professional. Thanks Mike.
Thank You.
Always great to watch your videos Mike. Calmly explained without cursing or condescension or slick editing to make it appear as though you never struggle or forget something. Always get what I need; every time. A true gentleman. Thank you for all you do.
Glad you enjoy it. Thank You.
Thanks a lot man! I've built Harley, and car engines for 30-plus years, but I have learned a lot from watching you and your techniques. Really appreciate it!
Thank you.
this is such a great lesson and timely for me too since I have to replace the cam on this '81 WG I just got. I really love how you tell us the little details of what you're doing, like when you're pulling the cover back off and you say, "I'm holding the cam gear with my thumb..." - seems like a little thing, maybe obvious but for newbies to a cam chest like me those details are music to my ears. From watching your videos I'm building up the confidence to do this job. Thanks so much Mike you're the best!
Thank You. I do try to show the things that are done "automatically" by people who do them often. Word to the wise for you: Be very careful selecting a cam for your 81. There are certain differences in the cylinder heads that have to be allowed for. Check with the manufacturer of the cam. Notice in the literature, that it addresses 81's.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you Mike - yes I've noticed when looking for a bolt-in replacement that nearly every manufacturer states, "bolt-in except 80/81" but none explain why. I know the guides changed from steel to cast iron in 1980 and also the length changed to 2" in 1981. Beyond that I assume the manufacturer will know so thanks for the advice I will speak to the manufacturer before I buy a replacement.
This video along w/ comments helped a ton. Hard to believe the timing marks on left don’t have nothing to w/ the ones on the right. Now we know. Awesome as per usual. Thank you sir.
Glad it helped!
I’m digging how calm you are building these old Bikes. I enjoy wrenching on my Ol’ Shovelhead, as I find it relaxing. Looks like you enjoy it as well.
Thanks for passing on the wisdom. By far best build videos I’ve found yet...
Thank you. Kind words. I love these bikes and we're trying to show the enjoyment of exactly that. If I'm not calm, I wait 'til I am to work on something.
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Mike thanks heaps for the video , I am in the middle of doing the cam chest on my bike and your video and explanations are faultless . Thank you Sir.
Glad it was useful to you.
And here I am 5 years is what it looks like, man I hope all is well with ya, but sure do appreciate your vids
All is well. Wishing you the best.
Great video! This shows very well that a gasket has a big influence on clearance in the engine in some cases! Never realized that fully I guess, also using non-factory gaskets (silicone bead gaskets etc.) might change things considerably. I really learned something today, thanks!
Glad to be of help to you.
Mike- I figured it out. A shim was stuck onto the thrust washer. I got it apart, cleaned everything up, and installed a smaller shim- problem solved. The end play currently reads 9 thousands. I may install a slightly thinner shim for a bit more end play. Thanks so much for the advice- your instructional videos are the very best!
Believe it or not, I was worried about you. Thank you. Glad it all worked out.
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Thanks Mike, I'm waiting for my stuff to come back from chrome and will check this rear wheel width when tires off. anywho, thanks again for all the help you do .
Glad to be of service.
Another great video, Mike. I am about to install a cam in my '77 and this really oultined the process perfectly. Thanks!
Thank you. Glad it works for you.
MIKE YES HAVING A GREAT TIME.....keep the vid's coming thanks
Cool. Thank You.
Great video mike . Always clear and informative . (nice tip on holding the gasket in place)
Glad you enjoyed it
Finally found some one I can watch and understand,I have built many diesl engines,Cat Cummins Mack International et al,but this shovelhead is driving me crazy! S&S 80 inch jugs and pistons,Andrews cam S&S Super B and everything is great runs like a bear,my problem is sumping oil!!!!!!it'll dump half a quart if I dont ride it everyday,good excuse to ride it everyday,tried different hose routing,raising the breather hosee,adding a catch can and it still sumps!breather gear new with cam install,timing marks right on,points set everything cool 'cept the sumping,I'm ready to put a diaper onit!GREAT VIDEOS!!
There is a comment a couple above yours. Make sure you're not overfilling the tank. Always leave room for the breather to put some air in there. Watch it run with the oil cap off to make sure the oil is returning to the tank.
Hey Mike....this is Germany. Thanx a lot for your Videos. I keep a lot of Money for spending it for Alcohol :) It´s a Joke !!! I have a 1977 Shovel and I make all by myself. Cause of your help. Thank you very much ....Bro...!!
Wow! That's great. Thank You.
Great videos! I wish they'd have been around for my first assembly. I'll definitely reference them on my next one.
Thank you. I'm glad we could help.
Excellent video as always,Mike.. Gotta save it on my phone for the next rebuild me an my friends do! Had to go through the manual to do mine,but you made it SO much easier to understand.. I appreciate what you do on here! Great stuff,my friend.. Love my ol 72,80" now!!
Cool. If you go to our TH-cam Homepage and click on the word "videos," there are over 200 of them available for free.
I'm a shovelhead guy myself, keep up the good work and don't stop making them video.
Thank you. More to come. Life's been getting in the way a little lately, but, more to come.
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Just subscribed. I built my twin cam motor. I’ve been thinking of getting a shovel when money allows. I really enjoy your videos.
Thank you. You're about to embark on a new adventure.
Great talk,..Id love to pull up a chair and turn off my phone, and hide out and watch you do repair all day, ha ha. Thanks for the info.
Love these videos. I just aquired a 1976 1200 Shovelhead. It was last riden 9 years ago. Now it smokes when we start it. Which has been going away, but leaks oil. Im about to do this procedure as well. Thank you very much for your videos.
Cool. It probably needs all new seals and gaskets. If you're going for "high performance," make sure everything else is in good shape first.
@@pacificmike9501 will be sure to do that. Thank You very much. Hope you have a great and Happy New Year.
just found your channel, pretty cool. I like the real world instruction. no edits, not always right the first time. just like the rest of us.. thanks I know that putting this stuff on you tube takes some time.
We do our best to show it for real. Thank you.
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These is a great vid series! I have this very motor sitting on my bench now that needs quite a bit of work. I have a sporty trike that I built and I think in the future I'm going to build another trike and use the shovel as the powerplant.
Sounds like fun to me. Thank you.
I was going to put my timing gear together tomorrow using a new gasket and all the original parts. Now I know better, Thanks very many
Thank You. Just set the timing marks right, and check the endplay on both the breather and the camshaft. Enjoy your work.
every video is really worth watching. I don't have an old Harley. now i'm thinking about getting one. oh I would have loved to do an apprenticeship with you .... cool guy!
Keep doing what you doing 🤙
Glad you like them!
As always, a great video, thank you Mike.
Thank you.
Hello Mike , Thanks again for the great video of knowledge.
Glad you enjoyed it
I heard that sound! Excellent instruction. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Great videos, very glad to have found your channel. Excellent info and content.
Thank You.
👍🙂
I learned that bolt trick from my apprenticeship back in the day, comes in quite handy especially with heavy pumps and drives that get gaskets.
Cool.
Very Kool vids. Enjoying and learning as I go. Cheers
Glad to hear it! And, backatcha.
Great lesson, Im confident i can do this after seeing this great video. Thanks for the video.
Thank you. That's very cool.
Here in England I enjoy you video's, I have a 1975 Shovelhead and I have learned a lot, I'm a dyed in the wool BSA guy and I'm not a fan of Evo's at all, but the Shovel really does it for me.
I understand. The further back you go, the more romantic they become. After 44 years with her, I still love my Shovelhead.
Very knowledgeable, easy listening.
Thank You.
Great video Mike , I missed the remove and install of the cam bearing . thats my next job on a 78 shovel !
Go to the home page of our TH-cam channel. Then, click on "Playlists." There are several headings. Click on Shovelhead Engine Stuff. You may have to use a computer rather than a phone.
Another successful and informative video. Thank you.
Thank you. Glad you liked it.
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I'll be doing exactly that shortly so yes, a informative movie. Thanks
Glad to help.
Thanks again I'm learning a lot from you thank you for your knowledge stay safe and upright.
Thank You. You too.
Thanks for this Mike! gonna share with a bunch of buddies.
That's what I love to hear. Thank you.
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Lots of great tips, like how you you put the socket extension in the socket backwards so you could use it as a driver, never would have thought of that
Just stuff. Glad you like it.
love the video, right to the point, learn a lot.
Thank you.
You are the bob ross of the biker world. Cheers!
Thank you.
cool videos as always mike
Thank you.
Great videos Mike. Would like to see engine removal video from a shovelhead FLH. These videos are very helpful. I refer to them often.
Thanks now i have a better understanding about end play, no pun intended
Thank You. Funny.
mister rogers of the biker world...great vid
Thank you.
I just want to thank you sir.
Thank you for watching.
Assembly lube fart will have me snickering ever time I build one now 🤣
I think it has to be the right viscosity.
You have great videos Mike!! I worked on aircraft for 22 years, and was always told that if you double click a while torquing , you are over torquing that bolt, screw, cap, etc. Can you expound on that?
I think you just did. I could be wrong.
Great videos....you explain each process perfectly.On this,I would have liked to see you turn the motor over by hand at the end,to ensure all well and good with cam,breather and cover installed.My shovel tightened up after 2/3rd revolution.On rechecking,finding nothing,reassemble..... and same problem? With a new cam and bearing,breather,timing cover bush etc. it was found that the genuine cone cover was at fault. It had been bored incorrectly (about 0.025" out) for the bush,so cam ran out of alignment.....which would explain the excessive wear in there and the thrust washer blue with heat and welded to the cam! Just one of those freaky instances. It taught me to rotate everything by hand at each stage of assembly,to ensure all is good. That cover now hangs on a nail from the rafters! A second hand cover was found,re bushed,honed to suit cam, and all was perfect. Thanks again for these very watchable and educational videos. God bless.
I agree. When I look things over, it's easy to tell they were in good working order. But rotation of everything to check is good and necessary practice. And, thank you for the compliment.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks.Just thought it would have been a good point for the less experienced builders out there,myself included,as all seemed perfect for almost a full rotation,as mentioned.......then suddenly all very tight. Could have been easily missed,and a costly lesson. Keep up the good work and ride safe.PS. The yellow Knuck is outstanding....
You know I try to cover everything and always wish I had said more. But, I'm really glad you're paying attention.
@@pacificmike9501 Not criticising your great videos or work,sharing an experience of the importance of paying attention,especially to the minor details......
I didn't take it as criticism. Really pleased you're watching, and, I agree, "It's all in the details."
Robert from Arizona. Good vedeo
Thank you.
Great video as usual Mike. Thank you very much. I do have one question if you don't mind though. I never see you use thread locker. Why is that? Thanks again.
Time and place for everything. There are a few places I use threadlocker.
Mike, This video series has become invaluable to me and extremely relevant to my situation. My Dad passed and I brought home his 14k mile Dyna Glide Shovelhead that's been sitting for 30 years. I feel like following your videos are the guidance I need since I'm still learning about what makes a Shovelhead work. I'm wondering...what your technique is for getting to crankcase so clean? What do you think about trying to get it to fire up before taking anything apart?
I'd check things out very carefully first. I'd crank the motor over by hand with the spark plugs out. How about the oil. I'd probably freshen an awful lot of stuff first. There are no Shovelhead Dyna Glides.
@@pacificmike9501 My Dad's old Super Glide (Dyna oops) is still "new" to me as you noticed. How did you get that motor so clean? Brakecleaner? degreaser? brass brushes using either? Thanks for all the advice..I've checked all the pre-start up boxes and then some. Is there such a thing as priming the oil in a Shovel?
You are the man !!!!
Thank You. I hope it helps.
Hey Mike, thank you for putting out many video's on all different model bikes! I've learned a lot, I have a question many you can help me with this one. it's a 73 FLH, after I set my cam, pinion and breath gear and all my timing marks all line up right, does the fly wheel need to be on the lower dot which is the TDC or on the advance center line, or neither, and just adjust my points accordingly ? boy would love to hear from you! there really aren't a lot of old timers that know about older bikes, between watching TATRO and Mike's garage, your more thorough and easy to follow. thanks again for making these awesome videos!
Thank you for the kind words. The timing marks on the flywheel won't line up with the timing marks in your camchest. Once those are set, and the cam cover is back on, bring up the advance timing mark (the straight vertical line) on the flywheel. This must be done with the front piston on its compression stroke. Both the intake and the exhaust valves on the front cylinder, should be closed. Read it in your service manual. With what they say and what I say, it should be fine.
Hey mike, great vid! I’m installing an Andrews A2 in my 72 shovel. My pinion has two marks. I aligned the breather gear and pinion gear marks before removing cam. But the pinion has a mark at 12 o’clock and about 2 o’clock. Is that correct?
Problem is, I can't see it from here. But, it sounds like you have an earlier pinion gear. Looking straight at it, the mark at two o'clock would align with the circuit breaker gear on a '69 and earlier motor. The mark straight up will line up on your cam gear. Check this out very carefully before starting your motor. I think it's a case of mix and match.
This is amazing! Just to clarify - do you not have to put grease on the Cam box cover gasket like you did the oil pump gaskets?
Depends on the gasket. The manufacturer's recommendations should be followed. The thick ones usually are installed dry. They compress and make a seal without any help. The thin ones, well, maybe a little sealant. Oil pumps can be difficult. I like white lithium on them. You need to find the products you like. We just show how I do it.
@@pacificmike9501 Awesome information, thank you for taking to time to actually reply!
hey Mike,
what S&S cam are you using in this motor. What size motor is this? Excellent instructional video.
Thank You. It is a "stock replacement" from S&S. It was handed to me. I don't remember what S&S called it.
I was wondering how you removed the seal too... LoL well I guess I'm going see if you have another video on it. I have replaced them before but I was just curious on how you removed them. The way you removed the main drive gear seal on the transmission was awesome. I'm thinking about doing it the same way just smaller screws.
Are you speaking of the cam seal? If so, just knock it out with a flat punch from the inside.
Mike, love your channel. I have a 2 part question. I have a 1966 FLH that the previous owner installed an ss oil pump-love it. Noticed that he has plugged off the primary chain oiler on the pump and removed the hose feeding it to the chain. He left the fitting in the inner primary but did not plug it, it is open to the atmosphere. When I pulled the outer primary off there was a small amount of oil in it, maybe a couple ounces? #1-Should I plug the fitting in the inner primary and add oil to a sealed primary, if so how much oil should I put in. #2-Should I install the fitting in the oil pump, run a new oil line and run it like stock? I'm not sure how this would not eventually overfill my primary, I don"t understand the oil return back to the crankcase set up either. Please let me know your opinion on this, I cant seem to get any definitive answers from any mechanic I know. Thanks, Bill
I explain this on one of our videos (oil lines on a Shovelhead). I recommend setting it up like the factory did. A lot of people think they can eliminate the original oiling system to the primary. By putting a couple of inches deep oil in the primary, iit leaks out and never does oil the primary chain like it needs. If you look in your service manual ( probably the 59-69 book) along with our video, it should become quite clear. If not, write in again and we'll go over it again. The stock system works fine. That's the way it was designed, it doesn't leak everywhere and it runs a dry clutch.
Hi Mike , thanks for all your videos on you tube they are very helpful. I have a question about end play .As you discuss in the video Cam end play should be 5 thou . I have done that but find myself questioning myself as on the Net and forums talk about 10- 15 thou end play with Andrews Cams as they expand on Heat. Confused to say the least .just don't want things to bind once Running. .
Good question. I don't remember what your bike is. The generator type motors call for the 1-5 thou type of end play. Sorry. Too tight for me. The later manuals (alternator type motors) call for much more. I favor loose over tight any day in a motor. The late manuals (Evos) say enormous camshaft endplay. I believe most of them didn't even have a cam shim in them. .011, .012, .014, .015. All good to me. If you have a Knuckle or Pan, or even a generator Shovel, you can run it a little tighter. I hope this puts you at ease a bit.
@pacificmike9501 yes too tight I am going with 10 thou . My bike is a 71 with a 77 engine..Have a great day Mike .thanks for your help.
Okay, .011-.014. Now that is exactly how I do it on my 77.
Speaking of seeing you out on the road do you get a chance to ride much in the winter time?
Where I live, winter riding is great. Very little snow below the mountains, and, if I want to go to the mountains, I wait for it to melt and ride where there isn't any.
hey mike, this is Dave, jude;s husband. got your mail on the rear centerline rim. we have a 73 flh. do you know what centerline or harley road king aluminum solid wheel would fit our electraglide. we have the 2 inch rotor hole. i needed to watch this video for help on cam washer placement. your video's are always helpful. thanks a bunch.
Thank You. That wheel took a great deal of adaptation. I used one of Paughco's super long axles. I used sealed bearings, like the wheel came with, only 3/4" rather than 1" i.d. I had to use a very late rotor for the 2.2? center hole. I made my own caliper mount and spacers. It was quite a project.
any videos on replacing the bearing and bushing? learning a lot from you and your videos
I think we did the bearing replacement in an Evo motor. It's exactly the same job as a Shovelhead.
@@pacificmike9501 thank you sir
Hi mike.. great channel.. in the Harley manual it shows cam end play is to be set between 1 to 5 thou.. why are you setting end play at 11 thou ?
I’ve set my 1977 flh shovel cam end play at 4 thou is that going to be a problem
A little too tight for me. A seized cam is really ugly. Be sure and pay attention to what service manual you're using and the cam grinder's recommendations.
I have an 83 flht that I am rebuilding. I dont like how hard it has to work to keep up with traffic on FL highways so I am looking at replacing the the cam, rear sprocket and trans sprocket. Do you have any recommendations on what I should get to give me the power and performance needed to keep up with the flow and not kill the bike? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
A couple of teeth on the trans sprocket usually will do it. The five speed gives you a low enough first gear. A nice hydraulic cam (first step, nothing too wild unless you build everything else to match), but I don't push brands. You'll have to decide what compression you're running to pick a cam. Use a good set of aftermarket hydraulic lifters. If possible, a more free flowing exhaust system, better carburetor and ignition system. This should all be planned carefully.
Love the videos but I do have a question when u have the cam installed are you on TDC? I'm working on a 78 shovel head and it's a rebuilt engine but had to remove cam gear cover due to engine setting but with it off TDC marking on flywheel never has the cam and crank and the breather gear line up
Don't try to find a correlation there. They aren't interested each other. Don't let the right side even converse with the left side. I know it sounds silly, but it is true. TDC is with the flywheel mark (Front cylinder) with both intake and exhaust valve lifters on the front cylinder in the bottom position.
@@pacificmike9501 ok i wanted to make sure that they didn't have to line up lol if I got any more questions imma be here asking Thanks again
@@pacificmike9501 need your number incase I need help but TH-cam will be good to let me ask
Hey mike, got your email on the rear centerline rim. i wrote down all the info you gave me and will be looking into it. my axel is at the salt lake chrome with some other parts, as we are in northern wyoming and he has done good stuff for me in the past. i think the previous owner who is dead now so i cant converse with him as yet, put on a wider rim. i measured the out side to outside and its like 4 3/8 wide with calipers across the outside. i thought 73 flh's had a 3 inch rim. so when the axel comes back i'll measure the length and see if its a longer than stock. we purchased the bike in 2008 and the previous owner who bought it new did some stuff to it like S&S rods and flywheel for 4 1/2 stroke and S&S pistons. Offhand, do you know what stock harley rim width for 1973 flh was. I have to get a new tire anyways, thats why i was contemplating that rim i saw on yours. I'll remeasure the rim inside when the tire is off. I guess that rim like yours would work on the 73 flh if i change the bearings to accept the 3/4 axel and have to wait and see what my axel length is when it comes back. and i would have to fabricate brake brackets. that is a 16 inch rim? that frame in video you have the shovel head engine and that harley centerline rim on, is that a 70's shovelhead FLh frame? thanks Mike. Dave in northern wyoming
Yes, stock rim width is 3". I did so much stuff there, I think yours is a little simpler. Stock axle is long enough and should work fine after you've installed bearings with 3/4" i.d. I used an earlier round swingarm. It was something I always wanted on the bike. The brake was the big part of the job. The caliper and rotor are off of a (I believe) 2008 Dresser. The center hole has to be 2.2?. I made the caliper bracket from scratch.
Hahahahaha Really Mike, fart jokes,running out of assembly lube and a technical issue with your high tech lighting system...What sort of a hotel are you running here...I do so love your videos mate,I can totally relate to you and your workshop...What shop do you use for your spare parts,if it’s not a rude question?And where is your donations page?You are soooo worth it..Regards from Australia 🇦🇺..Dave
Thank You. And backatcha. I order from all of the major suppliers and haunt the swap meets. We're not asking for donations. I love the generosity, but there are people in greater need that need all of our attention. We'll make it. Thank you again. You are truly appreciated.
Mike, if you don' t have as much end play, what will happen if its too tight?
Things seize.
Mike, you’re the Bob Ross of Harley. Your paint is your wisdom and pallet is that of an old raw hide mallet your canvas are beautiful motorcycles. I do have a question. Could you please elaborate on why you like more rather than less endplay on the camshaft? Really appreciate it.
Sure. The case swells, taking up clearance. Always remember, aluminum swells in ALL directions. I've taken new Evos apart that had so much end play in their cam, it was amazing. But, I always go along with the cam grinder"s recommendations. Thank You.
Pacific Mike, that makes perfectly clear sense. Thanks so much for the reply.
Wouldn't a soft Bristle wire brush clean those holes out just as good, Mike? I want to do this right without harming my threads.
Maybe. I'm a believer in "thread chasers," because they don't remove material, but the clean the threads as they are designed to do.
Before you timed the cam, pinion, And breather gear did you put front cylinder on top dead center I'm setting mine up and I want to make sure I'm doing it right? Or does it not matter as long as the pinion gear timing mark is up?
It's not set up that way. Just do it, like you said, by the mark on your pinion gear. Don't overthink this one. The pinion gear only goes on in one position. It's a little maddening when you think about it. Line up the mark on the pinion gear with one of the marks on the cam gear, with the other mark on the cam gear lining up with the breather. Just be sure of your end plays.
@@pacificmike9501 thanks man I knew I could count on you You're a good man Mike
Mike have you ever used a Reed breather instead of a timed breather?
Yes. And with, I believe, good results.
Mike, can your flywheel be 1 rotation out when you re-align your cam and breather? My timing marks aren't jiving with top dead center anymore. Thanks!
i have same question..... i just installed a new cam, andrews "b" grind.... there is no suction through carburetor
Nope. You don't time your cam and breather gear to the flywheel marks. You time to the the pinion gear which only assembles one way on to the pinion shaft. Mark on pinion gear points straight up. It lines up with one mark on the cam gear. The other mark on the cam gear lines up with the mark on the breather gear. Now, before starting the engine, rotate it to time the ignition to the timing mark on the flywheel when the front cylinder is on its compression stroke. Both valves are closed and the piston is coming up. Its hard to accept the fact that the timing marks on the right side don't reference to the timing marks on the left side.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks Mike! That makes sense. I'm getting tripped up on my rear cylinder pushrod adjustment, because I'm not getting the small dot in the viewing window. I thought it was due to my cam being out of sync. I'll keep at it 👍
I think you're looking for a problem you don't have. Set up your camchest. All this is on the right side. Now , adjust your valves and set your timing (using the flywheel "advance" mark, which is a straight line). This is done off of your front cylinder. I'm assuming you're not dealing with a "dual point" setup. Just a question for you: You've picked an Andrews "B" grind cam. Are your valves set up for that much valve lift?
I used the headless bolt alignment method, time and frustration saver! Question, 3 types of gaskets are available for the cam cover, paper (.031 thickness specified), paper with bead (thickness not specified), and rubber covered metal with bead. (thickness not specified) The choice may impact the cam gear end play? The old one was paper, no bead. I'll most likely stick with that unless there's a strong recco to change to one of the other options. Thanks for the vids and in advance for reading this.
The point of using any specific gasket is to end up with the endplays (cam and breather gear) that you want. Set the breather gear acoording to the service manual and the cam according to the cam grinder. If you use the same kind of gasket each time, you'll more easily be in the ballpark on your requirements.
thanks. If I am understanding, the manual says for Cam gear end play .001 - .005. Measuring mine, I can't get .0015 in there.Current spacer size is .075. My choice is a space of .070 so I will end up with about .005. Correct path? @@pacificmike9501
I measured the breather gear as you/then manual describes and end up with .002. Thanks
Did you allow for crush of the gasket? Sounds a little tight to me.
For both measurements I used the gasket that was on the bike when I began the operation. I'm waiting for a new one. I measured the thickness of the one I'm using in it and it is .030. when I measured the cam gear end play I also put the cover back on and torqued it down to the 80-in pounds. My take is they're both a bit tight. So I bought the appropriate sized spacers. I have a second super glide exactly like this one. I'm going to put it on the lift and measure the cam gear and play for a point of reference.
mike, if you need a shim surface ground at any time to a specific thickness , send it to me ill grind it to what you want anytime for free. i have a full machine shop with lathes and grinders and verticle mill. thanks again for your videos. Dave
Thank You. That's quite a resource.
👍🙂
Shovel head cam end play spec is .010 - .015 . I go for for.011- .013. has worked well for many cam installs.
You bet. The early models use a tighter spec. "Across the board" doesn't always work.
admire your gonna go get a smaller shim i get it 100 be always wondering about it after if not great channel
We shall see
Mike--i have a question. I am in the process of installing an Andrews J grind cam in my '77 FXE. In measuring en-play, it seems to be good without a spacer ( only the trust washer is installed). Is it OK to run the cam without a spacer? Thanks.
Yes, but, did you remember to measure with the gasket installed and allow for it's thickness?
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks. Yes, I've measured it with a new gasket installed. I can't detect any movement in the cam w/o a shim installed but the thrust washer moves freely--so, it obviously isn't jammed against the washer.
You have me a little bit concerned. '77 early bikes had different gears in the camchest than late '77 and up. The late cam gear has a groove on its face and the early does not. Make sure you have that right. Next, is this the original cam cover that came with the engine? Is the breather gear shimmed correctly. Next comes the face on the bushing pressed into the cam cover. Is the cam bearing seated into the crankcase all the way? Finally, there are different cam cover gaskets made by different manufacturers. Some are thicker than others. Remember, that camshaft is better a little loose, than too tight. I'm truly sorry I can't see it from here.
Also, the cam grinder recommends a specified clearance. Read and adhere to the directions.
question ...... on a panhead ... all the timing marks gears in place, if i drop the Distributor in place with the timing marks to the points TDC ... does that guarantee that the front cylinder, with the flywheel mark is the correct TDC for the timing order ? and not 180 de grease off?
Nope. Once all the timing gears are in order, forget about them. Now, we'll time the distributor. Rotate the engine to bring up the timing mark and watch the valve lifters go up and down for the front cylinder. When the flywheel timing mark comes up and the points cam is getting close, and both front valves are closed, you are there. You are timing on the slash mark which is the Timing advance mark. Look in your service manual. This is with the timing fully advanced.
@@pacificmike9501 thank you mike ... i'll recheck everything to make sure that i got it right ...
That sound, important but funny 🇨🇦
Everbody Funny (according to George Thorogood).
Hi Mike i have on the breather a T Mark and a dot. What do i need to take
Sounds like someone has done some work on that breather and has retimed it. Better have it checked out. By the way, is that motor maybe a stroker? You may have more questions.
I'm just wondering why you couldn't smack the cam cover with a soft mallet to get it loose? I mean instead of using the puller. The manual is awesome. But it doesn't always tell the whole story. Great video by the way!
Personally, I only hit things out of necessity. But, thank you.
Mike, does piston position in the cylinders matter to timing mark alignment in the cam chest? Thanks.
No. Everything in the camchest times off of the pinion gear. It all matters, but you arrive there by timing the camchest, then the flywheel mark and then the ignition. The pinion gear only installs in one position.
@@pacificmike9501 thank you Mike. There is so much bad info out there. The manual doesn’t address top-end timing when speaking to cam-chest timing.
Some of that stuff only goes together one way. Flywheels onto the crankpin. Pinion shaft onto right flywheel. Pinion gear onto pinion shaft. Now it goes into the cases. When the pistons come up, the timing mark on the left flywheel comes up in the window. Other than adjusting the ignition, it's all timed. Oh, now you want the gears in the camchest. Timing marks on pinion gear (which only goes on one way). Now slide the gears in place as per the picture in your service manual.
can you do a short video on how to check your cam shaft bearing to see if it is bad and also do I have to check the inplay on the breather gear if I'm just changing the cam cover I'm changing it because I've already put in 2 cam seals and it's still leaking i don't know if where the cam seal fits is to scratched up and causing it to leak or if the cam shaft bearing is bad and causing the cam shaft to wobble and breaking the seal of the cam seal causing it to leak if the cam shaft bearing is ok I can just replace the cover any help would be appreciated I have a 79 shovel 74 cubic inch it was rebuilt the last time in 2014.
It's no big deal to change the cam bearing. The tools are specific to the job. I can't tell you how many guys would bring their bike in the back of a truck, with the cam cover off. It only takes a few minutes to r&r the cam bearing. Breather end play should always be checked and set as per your service manual. Be respectful at the shop. If they're willing to help you, you'll learn a couple things while you're there. Replacing the cam bearing is the same all the way through Evos.
Pacific Mike thanks Mike that's a lot of help, unfortunately I'm on disability and can't afford to take it to the shop so I have to do most everything myself that's why I like your videos because they show everything in a straight forward way and. the information you gave is greatly appreciated I have a clymer manual that has general info on shovelheads so I'll check that it should have the tolerance on the breather gear inplay thanks again
The cam bearing should be replaced if there is any question. Replacing one when the cam is replaced is standard procedure. It's simple to do with the proper remover and installer. Otherwise, should not be attempted. And, proper breather gear endplay is equally important. I know this stuff gets expensive. I'm actually trying to help. Sometimes, not spending some money, will make you spend more in the long run. I get it.
Pacific Mike thank you Mike, I save all your videos because they are so helpful I know you've been at it a long time and that's the people I listen to when I have questions wisdom and experience are important to me you have my respect my friend and thanks I look forward to the next video you put out as I'm sure many others do also keep at my friend I know you love what you do and so do I.
Thank you.
Watch and learn ,these Men are disappearing fast. Thank you Mike and Mike ⏳
Thank You.
👍🙂
Hi Mike On a 69 generator shovel is it possible to have the breather gear 180 out . All timing marks where lined up. Went to kick it over to make sure oil pump was working now before bolting up the cam cover and the breather gear slid out of alignment. I was able to kick it over and slide breather back into alignment. Just didn't know if it can be 180 out.?? Thanks
First off, don't do that. You can rotate things slowly by hand before pushrods and sparkplugs are installed. The cam should be supported by the cam cover, If your gears are all lined up properly, they are because the marks are all in place. They only go together one way. You're probably just fine.
@@pacificmike9501 Hi Mike . The pump stop working. Pulled the outer pump cover and the gears were not turning so pulled the cam cover and the key way was laying in the bottom.. pulled the pump put it all back together and now have oil pumping. Not sure how the key way came out all 3 looked fine. Thanks. Love your knowledge and TH-cam videos. Thanks Mark
Wish I could give a second thumb up for the flatulent assembly lube bottle, lol
And you sir, are a gas.
@@pacificmike9501 rdex
Does the shovel and evo have them same bottom end?
Not exactly. The cases are different. The cylinders mount differently. The oil pumps are different. But, the design is similar.
Assembly lube farts are classic
Well then, I guess we both learned something today.
HOWdy P-M, ...
Thanks
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
...
Hello, Dave
Did you use the same cam bearing tool for the evo
Yes, it is the same.
@@pacificmike9501 thank you. Love your videos. Extremely helpful!!
So I can buy any evo cam bearing install tool correct?
Also do u have a video of the point set up explaining the high side and low side of the cam on a shovelhead
You must be speaking of a cone motor Shovelhead. There is no high and low side. There is a misaligned center bolt which can be tapped on with a very small brass hammer.
@@pacificmike9501 it does got the cone but I meant to say was wide side and narrow side maybe do u have a video of doin one? I marked the plate but wanna set the points to spec
@@pacificmike9501 it's the same set up as this engine but has points
The lobes on the cam are of the same height. When everything is centered properly, the gap should be the same.
The narrow lobe is the front cylinder and the wide lobe is the rear cylinder. I don't run points in these any more. I use electronic ignition.
What the difference between evo an shovel head bottom end
Very little. The manufacturong techniques changed a bit, but the 80" flywheels are close to the same design and can be used in either motor. The crankcases are different to fit the different topends. That's a real short quick answer. They do not interchange.
Don't forget to mention: Anytime you replace a cam, remove old and install new Torrington needle brg in the crankcase.
Yes, good practice.
As I said before, you have the experience, but I don't understand why you would install a new cam seal, until everything else was completely done? The installation, and removal of the cam cover can damage a brand new seal.
Lube it up and be careful. But, you're right.
What happens if the end play is too narrow or too loose?
Different thickness shim must be installed.
Pacific Mike . I’ve found a breather very hard to pull out.and a small piece of metal near to it, is it possible that the cover was too tight or the shim too big that press the breather in to the housing?
where do you recomend getting replacement parts
I don't plug companies. But, you didn't tell me what you're looking for, or what motorcycle you might have.
@@pacificmike9501 Sorry Mike, I'm new to your channel and just saw an episode where you asked us to do the obvious and give the details of the bike. I am currently working on a 1976 ,1200 FLH Shovelhead that is missing quite a few parts, but what I am mainly interested in is the stock cam gear, the breather valve, the rods lifters lifter blocks the tappets, the covers for the rods and so on. If you could make a suggestion as to where I might find a reputable parts house. Thank you. I also have a 57 pan that needs so head work, more on that later.
Put the oil pump gear spacer and pinion gear in, went through all the steps with the breather gear and clearance for camshaft. Gear on the camshaft is out further than the pinion gear by almost 1/8”. ????
I can't see it from here. Is the cam bearing seated in the case? Is the cam gear pressed all the way onto the cam? How thick is the cam shim? Is the "cam plate," the "bow tie" looking piece? What year is your motor? Is the camshaft correct for the motor. Big groove on the face of the gear for late 77 and later motor. No groove for 70-early 77 motor.
@@pacificmike9501 After looking at it and guessing at the measurement i got a straight edge and gauges and checked it, the cam gear is .056 out further than the pinion gear and breather gear. I am using a new set of S&S cases after i found that the right side case i was going to use was cracked. The cam bearing is seated correct, got the cam gear spaced correct , and after three tries i got the clearance for the cam shaft. The cam plate is indexed as you showed in the video, and the cam shim is .065. Cam is Andrews "C" for a 1974 shovelhead, also have a Andrews "7 grind" cam and they both fit alike. Everything was ordered for a 1974 shovelhead, hot kit, and cases.
I meant breather gear where i said cam gear spaced correct
On the 88 evo I got the rear tappet guide out and could see serious erosion on outboard edge of front intake lobe as well as inboard edge of it's tappet roller. I am guessing you would say that that metal has been turned into dust bit by bit and been running thru my bottom end rollers before getting caught in oil filter. This action will have degraded the ground finishes on the components and failure has already begun. Count 180k as great and just rebuild from crankpin on out. Would I be correct in this assumption? Would like to just replace cam and go on towards 200k. Bad idea?
Hey, it's your call, not mine. I'm sure we've all gotten away with things. Tough call. I'm still concerned about those cylinder studs.
@@pacificmike9501 will get back to you on that. So far I have project - creep. Next will be checking out oil pump. Manual says the pinion and cams are in color coded set of 6 different colors. Only want to replace cam so I need to extract it to notice color so match in diametral pitch is maintained. Then may as well check pinion shaft run out. Yes. Wow. 3 out of 4 tappets in like new condition after 180k. Pays to change oil and filter often. Thanks for responding and happy holidays.
And the best to you and yours.
@@pacificmike9501 I am back on the road with that 180k evo motor again. New cam and lifters, same cam gear, oil pump seal and gaskets new, same pushrods, new seals and gaskets, replaced cylinder base gaskets, new rings, ball honed cylinders as they measured well. Cycle-rama reworked the heads with guides, grinding, and spring shims as needed. Other than new seals and gaskets through out I did no further work. Went with a cam of same base circle and lift but longer duration. With s and s shorty and a proprietary cam design by cycle-rama this motor is spunky. What a powerfull machine compared to when I bought it at 0 miles. I check pinion shaft with tenths indicator. .0002 up and down near to bearing and .0003 run out at out side end. So to re cap the gear chest and top end were cleaned up in their entirety. Some hot assed mid Florida road work makes me real confident that the thing has many miles left. It idles better than it has it has in a few years. I did not think about the higher rate of fuel consumption. Haven't checked but I am fueling more often than before! Will evo cases put up with performance increases or are they prone to cracking? May want to go back to stock grind on cam. It is cool to be so quick sometime but to go slow I have to get the Indian out now. I am 63 and live in a metropolis, do I need the fast cam? Yes. Last you heard from me was "i will get back to you"and there it is. Your videos are cool. Like them