I love how a lot of other channels just say 120 AIO's are garbage and to throw them out but they are comparing them to full tower coolers in big cases in an ITX environment, this is actually super useful and interesting thank you !
99% of people build ATX so sure, most people shouldnt get a 120mm AIO. Look at prebuilds ATX, many come with 120 AIO, just so they can say its watercooled which is awesome for marketing. 12700k-12900k with a 120 AIO is crazy ^^
Congrats on the new addition 👏 Maybe a 120mm aio comparison? Cosidering how the h60 did against those popular options and not been that good amongst other 120mm aio it would be interesting to see.
So here's the thing. If you look at the 120mm AIO market, it's shrunk big time. NZXT, Corsair, Cooler Master, Phanteks and a bunch of others haven't launched 120mm options alongside their new series. But yeah, a roundup might be in the works.
@@HardwareCanucks Alphacool , EK, and Be Quiet make 120's. I do think that price wise AIO's are a different animal. I love the L9i its simply such a good cooler.
yes, i d like to see if there are really major differences. And maybe compared to a really slim 140mm aio (if there is such). And since it's for ITX, maybe try slim 15mm fans (noctua, arctic).
Congrats on the new addition and thanks for another interesting and informative video. I've really enjoyed all of your cooling stuff, because while I'm not in the target audience to use it there always seems to be something useful to take away. Personally I use water cooling in my primary gaming machine, but nothing else. I really like having no obstructions around the GPU and being able to keep the CPU heat away from it as well. When I did my first AIO build it was using the same GPU as my prior build, but the temps on it were significantly better despite the case having worse airflow and I haven't looked back.
I'm on "Team Air cooling on desktops", since water cooling is most of the time a hassle, and in my opinion if it fails catastrophically than other components are also ruined, as well as that air coolers have a better resell value (high end ones than high end water coolers), so yea, water cooling is for me similar to people who like liquid metal, the gains are there (sometimes just minimal) but the risk of damaging and maintaining stuff is just too much.
I’ve personally been building ITX builds in cases such as N-Case M1, Skyreach mini S4, Cooler Master NR200 (original version) and recently the Phanteks Evolv Shift XT …. I use a Cooling Loop or AIO all most setups except the Skyreach Mini S4 which I use an Alpenpfon Black Ridge which with stock fan (not 140mm due to ram clearance issues) with a Ryzen 5800X3D and temps are perfectly fine, even under full loads and long 1080P gaming sessions 🥰😇👍. I’ve been building ITX builds now since 4th Gen Intel CPUs and never looked back to air cooling unless I’m case restricted 😉. Great video Mike. Glad to see you back 🥰👍
Would've loved to see a 120 mm fan on the Noctua. Noctua L12g has more thermal mass then black ridge. Also would've liked to see a 140mm AIO. Great video tho!
When you started presenting I was like 'whos Mike?" Now I'm like, "where's Mike?". Welcome back and congratulations! I would take the air over the water any day. There's just a peace of mind in the simplicity of an air cooler.
Damn! What a timing, I was looking for a comparison between Low profile Air Cooling an AIO. Great video I'm going to AIO because I live in a Warm County.
I use a Black Ridge with a 120mm fan UNDER it, using VLP RAM to make it fit. This way you get L12S equivalent performance at just 47mm height. This works out perfectly with the FormD T1 case which has 50mm CPU cooler height restriction in 3 Slot GPU config. One thing to note on watercooling vs air cooling, is that you will in most cases get better GPU temps since you can populate the same radiator area with fans, that don't have to push/full air through a dense radiator.
@@HardwareCanucks dude that's so awesome. I can't believe you're 40 you look younger than me and I'm 36! It's crazy how unprepared you feel when the kid arrives but everything just works out.
I would never get an AIO over an air cooler. I like that air coolers have fewer points of failure and have a lot more longevity, as long as you have mounts for the new CPU sockets.
Even the Alpenfohn cooler thermal throttles my 5600X in a silverston SG13. I bought a $25 alienware pull out 120mm AIO and it keeps the 5600X under 70C in the same case, all else equal. AIOs certainly have their place. I also wouldnt use a large air cooler in a computer I planned on moving around frequently or shipping, AIOs keep all the weight mounted to the chassis and not hanging off the motherboard.
@@DJ.1001 I know they have their place, but I don't like them, it's a personal opinion. If I would make a PC that I would take with me, certainly tower coolers are too big of a risk of bending the motherboard or something like that. It's safer with downdraft coolers (if they CPU is low powered enough or undervolted and underclocked a bit) or an AIO. But I'm not sure if Chinese AIOs from AliExpress are particularly safe in long term. Hope you don't have problems with it, like some reviewers had in videos.
I was always in the air cooling camp, but as cpu and gpu generations pump more heat, due to the ever increasing power draw, I'm starting to shift towards AIO to keep up with a quiet SFF build. The tech has matured and a lot of the earlier faults have been fixed. ITX cases are better designed now, so it's not unusual to see 240mm AIOs fit with a 300mm gpu (or longer). Thanks for the comparison tests. It's so useful.
I'm def in the Air Cooling crowd... I just installed a top-down Noctua NH-C14S air cooler on my i7-10700k inside a Hyte Revolt 3 case. It fit wonderfully and works great!! Less cables, no hoses... this setup was the easiest of the 5 builds I've done in an ITX. in this setup I attached a 120mm pressure-optimized fan on the bottom of the cooler, and 2 140mm fans on the "swinging door" above the cooler (the lower of the 2 140mm fans is above the cooler). In an attempt to improve the exhausting of warm GPU air, the fans actually blow down-top; they blow air out of the case. At some point I will make them top-down 7 see how it impacts CPU & GPU temps. No need to do it now though because all is cool.
Congratulations on your newest addition! May she grow to be happy and healthy! As far as coolers go, I’m still paranoid about AIOs in small environments. Air coolers need so much less maintenance and sometimes can be quieter because the pumps/moving water can actually be notably louder than a tiny amount of air moving over the cooler. But sometimes, the AIO just makes more sense for compatibility.
I'm personally for water cooling because I'm confident that I can do the maintenance. But when I build a PC for someone else, I take into account of whether or not they're going to do the repairs themself. Lower experience = air cooled
Thermalright AXP120-67 please!! Also with a 25mm Noctua A12 fan too lol. Also want to add that case space/motherboard compatibility factors into these ITX builds too.
@@bat0u I got the msi unify well I'm sure it will handle the i5 fine its just how much it can handle the i7, I'm sure I will need to undervolt sadly they didn't have the 12700k in stock and I didn't want the 12700kf so gonna wait for a few more days for it to arrive
The longevity of AIOs are usually not worth it because once it begins to fail, your temps will spike through the roof and needs to be replaced immediately whereas with air cooling, you normally just have to worry about the fan which will show audible signs of the bearing wearing out, and doesn't need to be replaced right away.
Thermalright AXP120-X67 is an excellent easy to install air cooler & comes with fan clips for 25mm thick fans @ 77mm height It performs at the cooling level of the Blackridge. If you have the height (91mm) Noctua will supply free upper 25mm fan clips for the L12 Ghost Edition - it runs about 5 degrees C cooler than the Blackridge or AXP120-X67 when both have 25mm thick fans mounted.
I used a 240mm Corsair pro capellix on a 5900X CPU, in a phanteks shift air XT, and it's awesome. Ran cinebench for 10min and it never got to 80 deg Celsius
So... I don't have an SFF build, but I do have experience with a water cooler. I've been running a 280mm from Corsair since 2017. No issues, no odd noises, seems like it's going to keep running for a while longer. Yes, there are more points of failure in water cooling (just as a mathematical reality), but I don't think the difference is nearly so great in practice as it might seem from a spec sheet.
One of the things that Optimum Tech has brought up is that the most recent ITX boards have so much crap on them and so little clearance that sometimes you can't fit things like the Black Ridge on there. For this reason, I think AIOs are actually easier to install, so I have to disagree with that assertion. I often hear about the reliability thing but I have been running an H100i for like 7 years and the only time I have a problem is when Corsair resets all my custom fan curves when the software updates. The hardware is working fine.
I just recently did this test with a few low profile coolers vs an H60 on a 12700k, but set it to an unreachable power draw so it would thermal throttle. The low profile coolers were able to handle anywhere from 80-120w depending on fan speed (silent to max), but the H60 handled the 150w load at 90c, so it didn't throttle at a reasonable fan speed. The are very worth it for people who expect to cool more than 65w chips in small spaces.
1:55 Thanks for taking India's consensus in consideration. Here taxes are already added in displayed price (as some countries have taxes on billing the product) & as compared to USD prices are always 30%-60% higher. Also, many companies having registered with US & UK origins are considered as luxury brands because comparatively an average citizen's amenities are lower than developed nations.
The problem is that most ITX cases are not designed with a 120 AIO in mind, you have plenty of options which focus on support for low profile air coolers, but then the next step up is to a 240 aio.
the advantage of AiO watercooling is clear. However, since I had my AiO's pump dying for only less than 5 years, I used air cooling till now. The convenience and reliability of air cooling is just better for me in the long run.
Same here, the pump of my H80i died in less than 4y of use, and it was also mounted the "right" way (so that air does not reach the pump). While my noctua nh-d15 on my second build is still going strong since 2014, just had to replace a fan (3moths ago) after about 25'000h of use
I’ve always been an air cool person. It has always been fun to create good airflow in a case and growing up with an og Xbox 360 has trained me well. You can’t beat the simplicity of fans.
I been using aio for 3 years now and decided to go for a id-cooling is-67-xt since I down sized my case. A couple of case fans and a server 120mm fan for the cooler along with liquid metal I was able to drop my temp almost the same to my aio, my aio average 59-63c on full load while the air cooler averaged 60-70 on full load.
I got that ID cooling 50X, and absolutely hated the installation on it. Once I managed to install it with what I considered even mounting pressure (due to lack of backplate usage), I couldn't deal with the doubt of whether I overtightened it or not. Results weren't particularly impressive either, whcih still led me to believe it was not installed evenly. At that point, I decided to throw it away, and ordered a Thermalright AXP120-X67 that has been causing quite a stir, uses backplate and spring loaded screws. Straightforward installation. I'd love to see that one included in your round-ups. haven;t gotten mine, but have high expectations as a long-time Thermalright fan.
The water cooling crowd managed to convert me to air cooling. I have had 6 Corsair AIOs over the span of 2 years (in 3 different models) 2 of them failed in 2 years and 3 of them failed in the span of 2 weeks 😂. No clue what happened but the things just start flashing red and you can’t get them to stop. Tried everything and basically rebuilt my computer trying to figure out what it was but to no avail. The only thing it could have been would be the PSU, but it works just fine now, what can I say. I have a 360 Icue link aio right now working just fine but never switching back to AIOs until I absolutely need to.
Many years have passed since I move to liquid cooling, and I still see little reason for AiOs. They are cheaper than custom loops, but in ITX world, cheap is not really an advantage for many (if not most) ppl. Custom loops just do way better. 5800X + RTX 3080 in sub 15L case at much warmer that 22C room - can be done. For most ppl, to put loop with 280 rad in something like NR200 is not that complicated. That cost is high, but most of the time the only thing that have to be upgraded is the GPU block. There are parts in my loop that are about 10 years old. And even older functional parts in reserve.
You kinda forgot the biggest reason why aio is preferred: you don’t have to deal with custom watercooling. Custom watercooling is just not for everyone and can be disastrous if done wrong and a leak occur.
@@sentryion3106 Simple soft tubing loop is not complicated at all. Anyone that is able to put together a functioning computer in ITX case should be able to do it. Leaks are overrated. nothing happens if distilled water leaks into the running system. It is much easier do permanently damage AiO - like bending teflon coated tubes a bit too much. Also, AiOs have very limited lifespan. Custom loop have significant performance advantage. Especially in SFF. You should try, and will be surprised. It is easy to do, with great performance, and even more cost effective in a long run. Not to mention fun and satisfaction :)
I'd love to see the Sycthe Big Shuriken 3 instead of the 2. I do also want to note I have 5900x at 145w on a BS3 with a Noctua A12x25 swap and hit 77-78 degrees on a 10 minute Cinebench R23 run. Seems to be a beast of a cooler.
@@iTouch4444 curve optimizer at negative 24 all cores. Best multi run at 145w is a little over 21500. Cores start at 4.3/4.275Ghz and settle at about 4.25Ghz. Should also add My memory is at 3800 Cl18 with IF at 1900Mhz for 1:1
Congrats on the youngling. Regarding the review, I tend to go with Air cooling. While and AIO can cool better, in some ITX cases getting everything mounted in the case properly is a pain in the ass. Just less hassle with an air cooler. What I often do though is swap the slim fan for a standard one if the case has clearance. Gets a bit better performance and usually better acoustics.
Man that Black Ridge is really something else lmao, so glad I have one on hand! Good video though I had actually wondered this very thing. Would've been curious to see the thicker Arctic 120mm AIO with maybe one of the 30mm fans on it.
My ITX PC has a 280mm EK AIO. There's nothing wrong with air cooling, but I prefer some sort of water cooling in my builds for their thermal capacity. The only time I go for air cooling are for workstations that I don't want to maintain as often.
my prebuild came with an air cooler. upgraded it to and all in one and never looked back :) Now using a corsair rgb pro 360 in my first pc build. Very quiet aio in my opinion :) and works great
I think water cooling vs low-profile air cooling is really case specific most of the time. I've never used a low profile air cooler unless the case I was using required it, and most of those cases couldn't accommodate water cooling. I suppose sandwich style cases that can accommodate a 240mm AIO would require a low profile cooler if doing air instead, but a 240mm AIO would always be dominant in those cases (pun intended). The only exception I can think of is the SG13. I was using a Noctua L12S because it was the largest cooler that would fit AND could exhaust up into the SFX PSU, but I switched to a 140mm AIO attached at the front (once I got a shorter GPU so a 140mm AIO would even fit) and that obviously performed substantially better.
I ended up getting the noctua cooler thanks to one of your previous videos, and it went into my torrent case... I can't get the cpu to exceed 44C even with an artificial load. I had a coolermaster tower on there before and it was maxing in the 70C range... A 30 degree drop from a cooler alone is kinda staggering.
Another benefit to water cooling is thermal redirection. For example if you have your ITX case in a TV stand, pulling cool air from above is probably less effective than exhausting heat to the rear via a radiator
For me Air cooling left better idle temps and mild usage temps as well. Where the AIO wins out for me is when I beat the systems up doing some video work or compiling new code. Both which are long running tasks and stress out the system well. X299 is a little touchy and only one evga board matx.
Would love to see how the Corsair H60 AIO compares to low height single tower coolers such as the Assassin King 120 Mini (135mm) or the Assassin King 90 (125mm).
Im in the same boat as you, air cooling every time unless a case I need to work on can only work with an AIO. I chose my phanteks shift because of the desk space saved so this is the only PC I will probably own that will have liquid cooling, using the be quiet pureloop 120mm to cool my 5600x and its doing a great job so far but I do want to add another fan to help it some more.
How long did the stress tests take?...I'm asking precisely because of the thermal mass, because once the water system is heated, it becomes clear how much thermal energy the fan can release to the air in the room. A distorted picture is often hidden here, if it is only tested for about five to ten minutes... at least an hour at 100% load shows at what temperature the water settles in water cooling. Congratulations to the new father...the most beautiful thing you can do in life is to give life😃👍
AIO are pretty neat and I've ran a few different ones, but I default to air cooling nowadays when possible. Air for small to medium stuff and AIO if I'm running something real high TDP.
Air colling for me is better, because of the long term reliability. If you push any component in the territory over the capacity of air cooling into water, you are way past any effisency points and for me the per/$ or per/W is way more important than the absolut maximum 5% that is unnoticable in day-to-day anyway
Arctic LF2 120 would probably drop that H60 by 5 more degrees noise normalized, but the issue is that it is CHONKY and will be very specific for some certain low profile scenarios
right now I'm running an AIO H110 or 110i from Corsair don't remember right now, for more than six years, just hoping that I'll be near it when it fails, But on my next build I will go with an badass Air-cooler, MA620M, probably should be fine for a 5800x running in Stock
Unless you're ultra small ITX builds, especially when so many sandwich (and even some of the bigger standard) layout ITX cases can manage a 240/280 AIO with room to spare
Are you sure you that the higher thermal mass of the watercooler is why it has better performance? I would think it more has to do with the pumped water more effectively carrying the heat from the cpu to the heatsink compared to a regular heatpipe. This would result in a smaller temperature difference between the cpu and heatsink which also means higher temperature difference between the heatsink and ambient air which would mean better performance at the same fan RPM. It is basically the same principle for why liquid metal performs better than regular thermal paste: Decreasing the temp delta between cpu and heatsink.
These low profile aircoolers are also more likely to offer VRM and RAM cooling where AIOs really only offer cooling to these parts if the case airflow allows
The thing about the Black Ridge is that it's not designed for a typical ITX case. It's designed to be the best for cases that require very low profile coolers. With the single 92mm fan (I have mine swapped for a Noctua) it is the best for my Velka 5 (v1.1) and K39 cases. No way could I fit an AIO in either case, nor could I even fit a 66mm tall L12 ghost edition. There are plenty of other examples where 48mm is the clearance limit, and that's why people will pay a premium for what otherwise could get beat or matched by a cheaper, larger cooler.
I feel like air cooling makes a lot more sense for ITX because the AIO takes up more space. Like, physically more space, because it has water, tubing and a pump. And like you said, you usually have to give up space for something else in order to install one in an ITX case, assuming the case even fits it at all. I suppose there's always going to be a few people who want an AIO anyways, but for most people if the goal is to build a computer that takes up the least amount of space possible, air cooling is the obvious choice.
Had a few water coolers and as someone that travels and loves a quiet system they are just not for me. I've never had a pump that is as silent as a good fan at 200-300rpm. And I've tried almost all of them thanks to my former workplace. Though I have to say that I am very sensitive to noise. For perspective, I don't use be quiet fans, since they have a very very slight clicking noise. Also, traveling with a water cooler, especially by plane is just an hassle.
I don’t think it’d change the relative performance results significantly, but perhaps testing a game like doom for the purposes of assessing CPU temps under a gaming load is less than ideal. My understanding is that it is super well optimized such that the load is most likely going to be on the GPU under pretty much any reasonable config.
A couple points I do not agree with in this video: First of all, why are you comparing those coolers in general without picking the case first? Each SFF case has its own restrictions and capabilities, here we are just looking at coolers without maximizing available space. Formd T1 fits 240 AIO, NR200 fits NH-C14s, NH L12S in Ghost S1 - subjectively, those are the best options. If your grouping is based on 'low profile' why would you strap 25mm fan to BlackRidge and increase its stock 47mm height to 72mm? Most cases that require low profile cooler (under 50mm) cannot fit this. SFF coolers should not be compared in the same way as full tower coolers as even depending on the ITX board you pick your cooler choice may be limited (due to heatsink clearance or even tubing of AIO). Another thing to point out with AIOs is pump hum: an air cooler while without heavy load is often idle and completely silent. Even new premium AIO will always make the annoying pump noise, even when the fans are not spinning. So noise advantage is not always with water cooling. Finally, if you test 120mm AIO why not test 240 in the same video? Most cases that have space for 120mm will have enough for 240 as well. It is the 92mm AIO that is more common in SFF cases that has space just for itself (like sm560). I hope my small rant will motivate you to research a bit better for the next SFF themed video and avoid generalizations like this one.
For the cases, there are far too many permutations of ITX cases to comfortably choose one and expect it to apply to anything but a niche within a niche. Hence why we use a controlled environment without pigeonholing the results into a very narrow bracket. As for the pump hum, other than a few very cheap AIOs available on Wish or AliExpress, pump noise even at 100% speed is often undetectable over fan noise.
@@HardwareCanucks This supports my point that SFF cases are not the same beast as full tower cases. Can't have a regular cooler compilation that fits all, at least group by layout and strictly limit the boundaries to avoid unfair comparison. After your mods to some of those coolers, you now open the door to other coolers with similar height that are better / on par with what was reviewed (example: Big Shuriken 3). In terms of AIOs, never had a chance to try Aliexpress AIO, so no point of reference on that. I've had experience with Corsair H100i Elite Capellix, Alphacool Eisbaer, & EK AIO Basic - all of them had audible pump noise / hum, especially when compared to a good air cooler. I'm not saying AIOs are bad, if you run renders for work every day or other CPU intensive work on i7 / i9 / 5950X it is an excellent alternative, just keep in mind the potential noise increase.
If you go water, go custom water or not at all. AIOs just don't have the long term reliability. For me, it's custom water or air coolers. And with a lot of CPUs now being 65-70w stock, there's little reason not to go air. Many AMD Ryzen models will even sustain a mild overclock on the included (depending on model) stock air cooler.
I like this video, although many of the coolers listed are very hard to find in Canada. I have a lian li q58 and really the only option is the l9i. I have a 6600k
Would you say that Air coolers for SFF builds are better because it actually allows for additional airflow for the components around the CPU? i.e. cooler VRMs/ MOSFETs
I think the Noctua NH-L12S is missing in this comparison - it is usually a bit better than Blackridge. Regarding what is best - it reaaallly depends on the case. For example, the popular budget Silverstone SG13 usually performs better with the AIO, because the aircooler is blocked by PSU.
I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. Right now, in one of my older builds, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I bought it back in 2017. If there's any performance degradation in 5 years, then it can't be much.
I can speak from personal experience here. I've built a good 200 systems in my time and I've had more AIO pumps die or start grinding than I've had fans die.
Don't listen to this air-loving author. I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. I've never had a pump fail yet. Right now, in one of my older builds, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I bought it back in 2017.
@@HardwareCanucks I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. I've never had a pump fail yet. Right now, in one of my older builds from 2017, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I have AIOs in ALL of my builds.
The cost of an 120MM All In One Liquid Cooler costs in Belgium 40-60Euros New and a Low-Profile Air Cooler 60Euros. edit and my AIO performans a bit better too it has the same performance as a Freezer 34
My thought, if you're building itx, you're not worried about ease of maintenance or installation... Go with the water. If you're worried about longevity and ease of use, build an atx or open bench and use a large air cooler like a Fuma2 or a mugen.
I'm surprised you didn't throw a Scythe Shuriken 3 in here. I thought it was fairly popular with the low profile crowd. Actually just ordered one because for the 2nd time in 6 years my H60 went out on me. So on average it seems to last about 3 years. Not very reliable. Opened up to find out there was a ton of sediment in the innards and that's probably what prematurely killed the pump. Otherwise an AIO is KILLER for low cooling temps.
I stay with air cooling, don't want to worry about water and pumps. Air coolers are pretty much for life. If you buy a high tier air cooler from a brand that supports future socket types it is certain to outlive almost every aio. As far as I know there are almost no aio's which can be easily serviced by the customer.
LC has no unicorn tears in it or smth. One can have bigger radiator and ability to cool it with cooler air. When one has similar radiator surfaces so only advantage is to cool it with cooler air from outside of the case.
I'm using a Black Ridge in pull config with a noctua fan in a Dan A4 for a 3700x and I'm pretty happy with the performance and especially the low noise levels. In the A4 you can only fit a 92mm aio or 120mm with a short GPU, so I think this was the best option. Actually there would be not a lot of airflow on the motherboard with an aio so it might've affected vrm temps (although probably not with the 65w tdp of a 3700x).
It's monopoly of sellers here in India to raise prices as much as you can of any electronic product related to PCs or laptops until they can. The RX 6900XT which costs $800 USD in US costs $1500 in India and that's just sad.
I have a Ryzen 5600x in a Phanteks shift XT, started off with a Noctua 65mm cooler it did okay but the CPU almost never boosted to 4.6GZ normally 4.2/3 at best. Swapped to a 240 AIO hit 4.6gz straight away which it would never do previously. Strangely with the air cooler temps never went over 70C, however with the AIO its 55C max. So you would think it would still boost to the max on the air cooler but just would never do it until i installed the AIO.
Exactly this kind of behaviour is the reason people are arguing about aircooling a ryzen 9. Temperaturewise it absolutely works. Only the clocks stay a bit behind their potential.
I think the motherboard is of fault, not the air cooler. In theory, until a CPU gets to its Tjmax (95°C for 5600X), it should boost at its maximum clock. 70 degree isn't even that high. Many people run Intel Alder Lake on a stock cooler at 90°C, and it still boosts like normal. It's best to check the motherboard settings when weird things like that happen, water cooling is not magic, it's just cooling with water. Some motherboards give more TDP to CPU if you connect a water cooling system for some reason, even if the air cooler could have cooled the higher TDP.
@@luckyowl10 luckily i have access to two different boards an Aorus pro X570 itx and an B ASrosk B450 also itx, it performed just the same on both boards and improved with the water cooling. Like you i was stumped as my assumption was it should boost fully on the air cooler. I also have a Ryzen 3600XT chip which is a 95 watt TDP, and it did the same thing boosted fully water cooled but not with the air cooler, although in the case the temps were a bit higher 80 on the air cooler and 60 with water cooling.. It's weird though stumped me. I would have preferred to Air cool if I am honest.
Haven’t seen an info on a new cooler that came out under the company “densium” the cooler name being Z39, supposed to be a sff-use cooler and I was curious how it’d stack up!
Talks about addressing the elephant in the room, completely ignores the elephant on his shirt.
That was the point. :P
@@HardwareCanucks engagement for the win
That’s the joke bruh…
I love how a lot of other channels just say 120 AIO's are garbage and to throw them out
but they are comparing them to full tower coolers in big cases
in an ITX environment, this is actually super useful and interesting
thank you !
Every type of cooler type has its use cases.
@@HardwareCanucks agreed!
thank you again for this.
great discussion!
congrats on the new member btw :)
Yeah i see that alot and while not the go to option they do have their uses.
The problem is a lot of pre-builts throw in 120mm AiOs in ATX towers, just so they can say it's "water cooled".
99% of people build ATX so sure, most people shouldnt get a 120mm AIO. Look at prebuilds ATX, many come with 120 AIO, just so they can say its watercooled which is awesome for marketing. 12700k-12900k with a 120 AIO is crazy ^^
I will always stick with air cooling because of reliablílity, also I kinda like the looks of huge heatsinks on a CPU.
Congrats on the new addition 👏
Maybe a 120mm aio comparison? Cosidering how the h60 did against those popular options and not been that good amongst other 120mm aio it would be interesting to see.
So here's the thing. If you look at the 120mm AIO market, it's shrunk big time. NZXT, Corsair, Cooler Master, Phanteks and a bunch of others haven't launched 120mm options alongside their new series. But yeah, a roundup might be in the works.
@@HardwareCanucks hopefully an artic 120mm aio is included with stock and argb fan. Its a bit chunky but should perform really well.
@@HardwareCanucks Alphacool , EK, and Be Quiet make 120's. I do think that price wise AIO's are a different animal. I love the L9i its simply such a good cooler.
@@HardwareCanucks id cooling also have their own 120mm aio hope you can review it also since it much more cheaper than corsair
yes, i d like to see if there are really major differences. And maybe compared to a really slim 140mm aio (if there is such). And since it's for ITX, maybe try slim 15mm fans (noctua, arctic).
Congrats on the new addition and thanks for another interesting and informative video. I've really enjoyed all of your cooling stuff, because while I'm not in the target audience to use it there always seems to be something useful to take away.
Personally I use water cooling in my primary gaming machine, but nothing else. I really like having no obstructions around the GPU and being able to keep the CPU heat away from it as well. When I did my first AIO build it was using the same GPU as my prior build, but the temps on it were significantly better despite the case having worse airflow and I haven't looked back.
I've had an H60 for 3 years. Totally fine AIO. I delidded my 7700k which gives the H60 a bit of a break and allows decent overclocking.
I'm on "Team Air cooling on desktops", since water cooling is most of the time a hassle, and in my opinion if it fails catastrophically than other components are also ruined, as well as that air coolers have a better resell value (high end ones than high end water coolers), so yea, water cooling is for me similar to people who like liquid metal, the gains are there (sometimes just minimal) but the risk of damaging and maintaining stuff is just too much.
I’ve personally been building ITX builds in cases such as N-Case M1, Skyreach mini S4, Cooler Master NR200 (original version) and recently the Phanteks Evolv Shift XT …. I use a Cooling Loop or AIO all most setups except the Skyreach Mini S4 which I use an Alpenpfon Black Ridge which with stock fan (not 140mm due to ram clearance issues) with a Ryzen 5800X3D and temps are perfectly fine, even under full loads and long 1080P gaming sessions 🥰😇👍. I’ve been building ITX builds now since 4th Gen Intel CPUs and never looked back to air cooling unless I’m case restricted 😉. Great video Mike. Glad to see you back 🥰👍
Would've loved to see a 120 mm fan on the Noctua. Noctua L12g has more thermal mass then black ridge. Also would've liked to see a 140mm AIO. Great video tho!
When you started presenting I was like 'whos Mike?" Now I'm like, "where's Mike?". Welcome back and congratulations! I would take the air over the water any day. There's just a peace of mind in the simplicity of an air cooler.
Thanks man! Really appreciated!
Damn! What a timing, I was looking for a comparison between Low profile Air Cooling an AIO.
Great video I'm going to AIO because I live in a Warm County.
I use a Black Ridge with a 120mm fan UNDER it, using VLP RAM to make it fit. This way you get L12S equivalent performance at just 47mm height. This works out perfectly with the FormD T1 case which has 50mm CPU cooler height restriction in 3 Slot GPU config. One thing to note on watercooling vs air cooling, is that you will in most cases get better GPU temps since you can populate the same radiator area with fans, that don't have to push/full air through a dense radiator.
The issue is LP memory for a lot of folks but yeah, makes sense
CONGRATS ON YOUR NEW BABY!!!! Idk if its your first kid or not but man what a life changer. My kid is 1.5 years old and life got infinitely better.
She's the first...and here I am just turning 40. It's a life changer all right!
@@HardwareCanucks dude that's so awesome. I can't believe you're 40 you look younger than me and I'm 36! It's crazy how unprepared you feel when the kid arrives but everything just works out.
I would never get an AIO over an air cooler. I like that air coolers have fewer points of failure and have a lot more longevity, as long as you have mounts for the new CPU sockets.
Even the Alpenfohn cooler thermal throttles my 5600X in a silverston SG13. I bought a $25 alienware pull out 120mm AIO and it keeps the 5600X under 70C in the same case, all else equal. AIOs certainly have their place.
I also wouldnt use a large air cooler in a computer I planned on moving around frequently or shipping, AIOs keep all the weight mounted to the chassis and not hanging off the motherboard.
@@DJ.1001 I know they have their place, but I don't like them, it's a personal opinion.
If I would make a PC that I would take with me, certainly tower coolers are too big of a risk of bending the motherboard or something like that. It's safer with downdraft coolers (if they CPU is low powered enough or undervolted and underclocked a bit) or an AIO.
But I'm not sure if Chinese AIOs from AliExpress are particularly safe in long term. Hope you don't have problems with it, like some reviewers had in videos.
I was always in the air cooling camp, but as cpu and gpu generations pump more heat, due to the ever increasing power draw, I'm starting to shift towards AIO to keep up with a quiet SFF build. The tech has matured and a lot of the earlier faults have been fixed. ITX cases are better designed now, so it's not unusual to see 240mm AIOs fit with a 300mm gpu (or longer). Thanks for the comparison tests. It's so useful.
I have the exact same thought process.
i was just looking for a video like this, perfect
I'm def in the Air Cooling crowd... I just installed a top-down Noctua NH-C14S air cooler on my i7-10700k inside a Hyte Revolt 3 case. It fit wonderfully and works great!! Less cables, no hoses... this setup was the easiest of the 5 builds I've done in an ITX. in this setup I attached a 120mm pressure-optimized fan on the bottom of the cooler, and 2 140mm fans on the "swinging door" above the cooler (the lower of the 2 140mm fans is above the cooler). In an attempt to improve the exhausting of warm GPU air, the fans actually blow down-top; they blow air out of the case. At some point I will make them top-down 7 see how it impacts CPU & GPU temps. No need to do it now though because all is cool.
Congrats!! Very happy for you and happy to see you back!
I was using an H60 in my NR200 but just a few weeks ago swapped it out for a Noctua NH-D12L, no regrets.
Congratulations on your newest addition! May she grow to be happy and healthy!
As far as coolers go, I’m still paranoid about AIOs in small environments. Air coolers need so much less maintenance and sometimes can be quieter because the pumps/moving water can actually be notably louder than a tiny amount of air moving over the cooler. But sometimes, the AIO just makes more sense for compatibility.
I like air cooling, just because it is easier to install, and less headache to deal with.
And also, congrats!
I'm personally for water cooling because I'm confident that I can do the maintenance. But when I build a PC for someone else, I take into account of whether or not they're going to do the repairs themself. Lower experience = air cooled
Thermalright AXP120-67 please!! Also with a 25mm Noctua A12 fan too lol. Also want to add that case space/motherboard compatibility factors into these ITX builds too.
I got it with the 12700k just waiting for the cpu to arrive!
@@iamnoob-ep3tz nice! what mobo actually? lemme know bout temps, not sure if I want 12700k or step down to i5 for better temps lol. thx =)
@@bat0u I got the msi unify
well I'm sure it will handle the i5 fine its just how much it can handle the i7, I'm sure I will need to undervolt
sadly they didn't have the 12700k in stock and I didn't want the 12700kf so gonna wait for a few more days for it to arrive
The longevity of AIOs are usually not worth it because once it begins to fail, your temps will spike through the roof and needs to be replaced immediately whereas with air cooling, you normally just have to worry about the fan which will show audible signs of the bearing wearing out, and doesn't need to be replaced right away.
Thermalright AXP120-X67 is an excellent easy to install air cooler & comes with fan clips for 25mm thick fans @ 77mm height It performs at the cooling level of the Blackridge. If you have the height (91mm) Noctua will supply free upper 25mm fan clips for the L12 Ghost Edition - it runs about 5 degrees C cooler than the Blackridge or AXP120-X67 when both have 25mm thick fans mounted.
I used a 240mm Corsair pro capellix on a 5900X CPU, in a phanteks shift air XT, and it's awesome. Ran cinebench for 10min and it never got to 80 deg Celsius
So... I don't have an SFF build, but I do have experience with a water cooler. I've been running a 280mm from Corsair since 2017. No issues, no odd noises, seems like it's going to keep running for a while longer. Yes, there are more points of failure in water cooling (just as a mathematical reality), but I don't think the difference is nearly so great in practice as it might seem from a spec sheet.
congrats on the new team mate.
One of the things that Optimum Tech has brought up is that the most recent ITX boards have so much crap on them and so little clearance that sometimes you can't fit things like the Black Ridge on there. For this reason, I think AIOs are actually easier to install, so I have to disagree with that assertion. I often hear about the reliability thing but I have been running an H100i for like 7 years and the only time I have a problem is when Corsair resets all my custom fan curves when the software updates. The hardware is working fine.
I just recently did this test with a few low profile coolers vs an H60 on a 12700k, but set it to an unreachable power draw so it would thermal throttle. The low profile coolers were able to handle anywhere from 80-120w depending on fan speed (silent to max), but the H60 handled the 150w load at 90c, so it didn't throttle at a reasonable fan speed. The are very worth it for people who expect to cool more than 65w chips in small spaces.
1:55 Thanks for taking India's consensus in consideration. Here taxes are already added in displayed price (as some countries have taxes on billing the product) & as compared to USD prices are always 30%-60% higher. Also, many companies having registered with US & UK origins are considered as luxury brands because comparatively an average citizen's amenities are lower than developed nations.
The problem is that most ITX cases are not designed with a 120 AIO in mind, you have plenty of options which focus on support for low profile air coolers, but then the next step up is to a 240 aio.
the advantage of AiO watercooling is clear. However, since I had my AiO's pump dying for only less than 5 years, I used air cooling till now. The convenience and reliability of air cooling is just better for me in the long run.
Same here, the pump of my H80i died in less than 4y of use, and it was also mounted the "right" way (so that air does not reach the pump). While my noctua nh-d15 on my second build is still going strong since 2014, just had to replace a fan (3moths ago) after about 25'000h of use
I’ve always been an air cool person. It has always been fun to create good airflow in a case and growing up with an og Xbox 360 has trained me well. You can’t beat the simplicity of fans.
I been using aio for 3 years now and decided to go for a id-cooling is-67-xt since I down sized my case. A couple of case fans and a server 120mm fan for the cooler along with liquid metal I was able to drop my temp almost the same to my aio, my aio average 59-63c on full load while the air cooler averaged 60-70 on full load.
I got that ID cooling 50X, and absolutely hated the installation on it. Once I managed to install it with what I considered even mounting pressure (due to lack of backplate usage), I couldn't deal with the doubt of whether I overtightened it or not.
Results weren't particularly impressive either, whcih still led me to believe it was not installed evenly. At that point, I decided to throw it away, and ordered a Thermalright AXP120-X67 that has been causing quite a stir, uses backplate and spring loaded screws. Straightforward installation.
I'd love to see that one included in your round-ups. haven;t gotten mine, but have high expectations as a long-time Thermalright fan.
Was thinking to get that Thermalright AXP120 too. Review still very few for that cooler.
The water cooling crowd managed to convert me to air cooling. I have had 6 Corsair AIOs over the span of 2 years (in 3 different models) 2 of them failed in 2 years and 3 of them failed in the span of 2 weeks 😂. No clue what happened but the things just start flashing red and you can’t get them to stop. Tried everything and basically rebuilt my computer trying to figure out what it was but to no avail. The only thing it could have been would be the PSU, but it works just fine now, what can I say. I have a 360 Icue link aio right now working just fine but never switching back to AIOs until I absolutely need to.
Many years have passed since I move to liquid cooling, and I still see little reason for AiOs. They are cheaper than custom loops, but in ITX world, cheap is not really an advantage for many (if not most) ppl. Custom loops just do way better. 5800X + RTX 3080 in sub 15L case at much warmer that 22C room - can be done. For most ppl, to put loop with 280 rad in something like NR200 is not that complicated.
That cost is high, but most of the time the only thing that have to be upgraded is the GPU block. There are parts in my loop that are about 10 years old. And even older functional parts in reserve.
You kinda forgot the biggest reason why aio is preferred: you don’t have to deal with custom watercooling. Custom watercooling is just not for everyone and can be disastrous if done wrong and a leak occur.
@@sentryion3106 Simple soft tubing loop is not complicated at all. Anyone that is able to put together a functioning computer in ITX case should be able to do it. Leaks are overrated. nothing happens if distilled water leaks into the running system. It is much easier do permanently damage AiO - like bending teflon coated tubes a bit too much. Also, AiOs have very limited lifespan. Custom loop have significant performance advantage. Especially in SFF.
You should try, and will be surprised. It is easy to do, with great performance, and even more cost effective in a long run. Not to mention fun and satisfaction :)
I'd love to see the Sycthe Big Shuriken 3 instead of the 2.
I do also want to note I have 5900x at 145w on a BS3 with a Noctua A12x25 swap and hit 77-78 degrees on a 10 minute Cinebench R23 run. Seems to be a beast of a cooler.
At which mhz? Whats your score?
@@iTouch4444 curve optimizer at negative 24 all cores. Best multi run at 145w is a little over 21500. Cores start at 4.3/4.275Ghz and settle at about 4.25Ghz. Should also add My memory is at 3800 Cl18 with IF at 1900Mhz for 1:1
Congrats Mike...and thanks for another great video!
Congrats on the youngling.
Regarding the review, I tend to go with Air cooling. While and AIO can cool better, in some ITX cases getting everything mounted in the case properly is a pain in the ass.
Just less hassle with an air cooler.
What I often do though is swap the slim fan for a standard one if the case has clearance. Gets a bit better performance and usually better acoustics.
Man that Black Ridge is really something else lmao, so glad I have one on hand! Good video though I had actually wondered this very thing. Would've been curious to see the thicker Arctic 120mm AIO with maybe one of the 30mm fans on it.
My ITX PC has a 280mm EK AIO.
There's nothing wrong with air cooling, but I prefer some sort of water cooling in my builds for their thermal capacity. The only time I go for air cooling are for workstations that I don't want to maintain as often.
my prebuild came with an air cooler. upgraded it to and all in one and never looked back :) Now using a corsair rgb pro 360 in my first pc build. Very quiet aio in my opinion :) and works great
Great video as always, extra points for pronouncing Alpenföhn correctly haha
Congrats on new addition! I like both. I go bang for buck. My fave air cooler is the EVO 212 Black or Black RGB. My fave water cooler is the H110.
I think water cooling vs low-profile air cooling is really case specific most of the time. I've never used a low profile air cooler unless the case I was using required it, and most of those cases couldn't accommodate water cooling. I suppose sandwich style cases that can accommodate a 240mm AIO would require a low profile cooler if doing air instead, but a 240mm AIO would always be dominant in those cases (pun intended).
The only exception I can think of is the SG13. I was using a Noctua L12S because it was the largest cooler that would fit AND could exhaust up into the SFX PSU, but I switched to a 140mm AIO attached at the front (once I got a shorter GPU so a 140mm AIO would even fit) and that obviously performed substantially better.
I ended up getting the noctua cooler thanks to one of your previous videos, and it went into my torrent case... I can't get the cpu to exceed 44C even with an artificial load. I had a coolermaster tower on there before and it was maxing in the 70C range... A 30 degree drop from a cooler alone is kinda staggering.
Another benefit to water cooling is thermal redirection. For example if you have your ITX case in a TV stand, pulling cool air from above is probably less effective than exhausting heat to the rear via a radiator
I've been wanting this video since long
For me Air cooling left better idle temps and mild usage temps as well. Where the AIO wins out for me is when I beat the systems up doing some video work or compiling new code. Both which are long running tasks and stress out the system well. X299 is a little touchy and only one evga board matx.
Would love to see how the Corsair H60 AIO compares to low height single tower coolers such as the Assassin King 120 Mini (135mm) or the Assassin King 90 (125mm).
too bad Scythe does not have the Ninja Mini anymore, but that was an amazing small tower..
Im in the same boat as you, air cooling every time unless a case I need to work on can only work with an AIO. I chose my phanteks shift because of the desk space saved so this is the only PC I will probably own that will have liquid cooling, using the be quiet pureloop 120mm to cool my 5600x and its doing a great job so far but I do want to add another fan to help it some more.
How long did the stress tests take?...I'm asking precisely because of the thermal mass, because once the water system is heated, it becomes clear how much thermal energy the fan can release to the air in the room. A distorted picture is often hidden here, if it is only tested for about five to ten minutes... at least an hour at 100% load shows at what temperature the water settles in water cooling.
Congratulations to the new father...the most beautiful thing you can do in life is to give life😃👍
AIO are pretty neat and I've ran a few different ones, but I default to air cooling nowadays when possible. Air for small to medium stuff and AIO if I'm running something real high TDP.
Air colling for me is better, because of the long term reliability. If you push any component in the territory over the capacity of air cooling into water, you are way past any effisency points and for me the per/$ or per/W is way more important than the absolut maximum 5% that is unnoticable in day-to-day anyway
Arctic LF2 120 would probably drop that H60 by 5 more degrees noise normalized, but the issue is that it is CHONKY and will be very specific for some certain low profile scenarios
right now I'm running an AIO H110 or 110i from Corsair don't remember right now, for more than six years, just hoping that I'll be near it when it fails, But on my next build I will go with an badass Air-cooler, MA620M, probably should be fine for a 5800x running in Stock
Unless you're ultra small ITX builds, especially when so many sandwich (and even some of the bigger standard) layout ITX cases can manage a 240/280 AIO with room to spare
ngl, I didn't have much faith in a 120mm aio since they get trashed by so many people and was shocked how well it did.
Are you sure you that the higher thermal mass of the watercooler is why it has better performance?
I would think it more has to do with the pumped water more effectively carrying the heat from the cpu to the heatsink compared to a regular heatpipe. This would result in a smaller temperature difference between the cpu and heatsink which also means higher temperature difference between the heatsink and ambient air which would mean better performance at the same fan RPM.
It is basically the same principle for why liquid metal performs better than regular thermal paste: Decreasing the temp delta between cpu and heatsink.
Used air cooling/ fan moding until I switched to an aio. Now, my itx build is just whisper quiet when gaming and nothing can beat that!
As of writing, the L12 Ghost edition is retailing for $55 USD on Amazon, so not really sure where the price point on here is coming from.
Great video.
What lamp is that in the background? The round one.
It's from a company here in Canada called Structube.
These low profile aircoolers are also more likely to offer VRM and RAM cooling where AIOs really only offer cooling to these parts if the case airflow allows
The thing about the Black Ridge is that it's not designed for a typical ITX case. It's designed to be the best for cases that require very low profile coolers. With the single 92mm fan (I have mine swapped for a Noctua) it is the best for my Velka 5 (v1.1) and K39 cases. No way could I fit an AIO in either case, nor could I even fit a 66mm tall L12 ghost edition. There are plenty of other examples where 48mm is the clearance limit, and that's why people will pay a premium for what otherwise could get beat or matched by a cheaper, larger cooler.
Correct. That's why I covered ultra thin coolers first, then regular LP Coolers and now this.
I feel like air cooling makes a lot more sense for ITX because the AIO takes up more space. Like, physically more space, because it has water, tubing and a pump. And like you said, you usually have to give up space for something else in order to install one in an ITX case, assuming the case even fits it at all. I suppose there's always going to be a few people who want an AIO anyways, but for most people if the goal is to build a computer that takes up the least amount of space possible, air cooling is the obvious choice.
Another great, comparative review!!!! Thank you very much.
Had a few water coolers and as someone that travels and loves a quiet system they are just not for me. I've never had a pump that is as silent as a good fan at 200-300rpm. And I've tried almost all of them thanks to my former workplace. Though I have to say that I am very sensitive to noise. For perspective, I don't use be quiet fans, since they have a very very slight clicking noise.
Also, traveling with a water cooler, especially by plane is just an hassle.
I don’t think it’d change the relative performance results significantly, but perhaps testing a game like doom for the purposes of assessing CPU temps under a gaming load is less than ideal. My understanding is that it is super well optimized such that the load is most likely going to be on the GPU under pretty much any reasonable config.
Great review Mike! thank you
A couple points I do not agree with in this video:
First of all, why are you comparing those coolers in general without picking the case first? Each SFF case has its own restrictions and capabilities, here we are just looking at coolers without maximizing available space. Formd T1 fits 240 AIO, NR200 fits NH-C14s, NH L12S in Ghost S1 - subjectively, those are the best options. If your grouping is based on 'low profile' why would you strap 25mm fan to BlackRidge and increase its stock 47mm height to 72mm? Most cases that require low profile cooler (under 50mm) cannot fit this. SFF coolers should not be compared in the same way as full tower coolers as even depending on the ITX board you pick your cooler choice may be limited (due to heatsink clearance or even tubing of AIO).
Another thing to point out with AIOs is pump hum: an air cooler while without heavy load is often idle and completely silent. Even new premium AIO will always make the annoying pump noise, even when the fans are not spinning. So noise advantage is not always with water cooling.
Finally, if you test 120mm AIO why not test 240 in the same video? Most cases that have space for 120mm will have enough for 240 as well. It is the 92mm AIO that is more common in SFF cases that has space just for itself (like sm560).
I hope my small rant will motivate you to research a bit better for the next SFF themed video and avoid generalizations like this one.
For the cases, there are far too many permutations of ITX cases to comfortably choose one and expect it to apply to anything but a niche within a niche. Hence why we use a controlled environment without pigeonholing the results into a very narrow bracket.
As for the pump hum, other than a few very cheap AIOs available on Wish or AliExpress, pump noise even at 100% speed is often undetectable over fan noise.
@@HardwareCanucks This supports my point that SFF cases are not the same beast as full tower cases. Can't have a regular cooler compilation that fits all, at least group by layout and strictly limit the boundaries to avoid unfair comparison. After your mods to some of those coolers, you now open the door to other coolers with similar height that are better / on par with what was reviewed (example: Big Shuriken 3).
In terms of AIOs, never had a chance to try Aliexpress AIO, so no point of reference on that. I've had experience with Corsair H100i Elite Capellix, Alphacool Eisbaer, & EK AIO Basic - all of them had audible pump noise / hum, especially when compared to a good air cooler. I'm not saying AIOs are bad, if you run renders for work every day or other CPU intensive work on i7 / i9 / 5950X it is an excellent alternative, just keep in mind the potential noise increase.
If you go water, go custom water or not at all. AIOs just don't have the long term reliability. For me, it's custom water or air coolers. And with a lot of CPUs now being 65-70w stock, there's little reason not to go air. Many AMD Ryzen models will even sustain a mild overclock on the included (depending on model) stock air cooler.
I like this video, although many of the coolers listed are very hard to find in Canada. I have a lian li q58 and really the only option is the l9i. I have a 6600k
Not really. Amazon has the AXP-90 and a bunch of the ID Cooling options.
Add Big Shuriken 3 Rev B. Fits perfectly in a meshlicious case with a 25mm fan.
Cool test, but I am really missing the normal Noctua NH-L12 with the two fans.
In my FormD T1, I go air cooling because I have a 4080 in there. I need the two top fans to help get as much air in there as possible.
I still prefer getting the is40X v2 while keeping my cpu choice to 12100-12400f only before 13th gen comes on my itx rig
Yay, Mike video!
Would you say that Air coolers for SFF builds are better because it actually allows for additional airflow for the components around the CPU? i.e. cooler VRMs/ MOSFETs
I think the Noctua NH-L12S is missing in this comparison - it is usually a bit better than Blackridge.
Regarding what is best - it reaaallly depends on the case. For example, the popular budget Silverstone SG13 usually performs better with the AIO, because the aircooler is blocked by PSU.
Would be interested to see how performance degrades in an AIO over time.
I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. Right now, in one of my older builds, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I bought it back in 2017. If there's any performance degradation in 5 years, then it can't be much.
Congrats on the new tiny human!
Dude you’re the man 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Everybody is saying AiOs don't have the same longevity but how does that actually show itself? How and when do AiOs fail?
I can speak from personal experience here. I've built a good 200 systems in my time and I've had more AIO pumps die or start grinding than I've had fans die.
Don't listen to this air-loving author. I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. I've never had a pump fail yet. Right now, in one of my older builds, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I bought it back in 2017.
@@HardwareCanucks I've had several CPU and GPU AIOs over the years. I've never had a pump fail yet. Right now, in one of my older builds from 2017, I have a EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 HYBRID that's been active and heavily used for going on 5 years. I have AIOs in ALL of my builds.
The cost of an 120MM All In One Liquid Cooler costs in Belgium 40-60Euros New and a Low-Profile Air Cooler 60Euros. edit and my AIO performans a bit better too it has the same performance as a Freezer 34
Was that a Nidec Gentle Typhoon or an "upgraded" XPG Vento Pro...?
MY GOD I WOULD VE PAID TO SEE THIS VIDEO JUST 2 WEEKS AGO!!!!!!!
My thought, if you're building itx, you're not worried about ease of maintenance or installation... Go with the water. If you're worried about longevity and ease of use, build an atx or open bench and use a large air cooler like a Fuma2 or a mugen.
I'm surprised you didn't throw a Scythe Shuriken 3 in here. I thought it was fairly popular with the low profile crowd. Actually just ordered one because for the 2nd time in 6 years my H60 went out on me. So on average it seems to last about 3 years. Not very reliable. Opened up to find out there was a ton of sediment in the innards and that's probably what prematurely killed the pump. Otherwise an AIO is KILLER for low cooling temps.
I stay with air cooling, don't want to worry about water and pumps. Air coolers are pretty much for life. If you buy a high tier air cooler from a brand that supports future socket types it is certain to outlive almost every aio. As far as I know there are almost no aio's which can be easily serviced by the customer.
LC has no unicorn tears in it or smth. One can have bigger radiator and ability to cool it with cooler air. When one has similar radiator surfaces so only advantage is to cool it with cooler air from outside of the case.
I'm using a Black Ridge in pull config with a noctua fan in a Dan A4 for a 3700x and I'm pretty happy with the performance and especially the low noise levels. In the A4 you can only fit a 92mm aio or 120mm with a short GPU, so I think this was the best option.
Actually there would be not a lot of airflow on the motherboard with an aio so it might've affected vrm temps (although probably not with the 65w tdp of a 3700x).
It's monopoly of sellers here in India to raise prices as much as you can of any electronic product related to PCs or laptops until they can.
The RX 6900XT which costs $800 USD in US costs $1500 in India and that's just sad.
Yay new daughter! I have 3 daughters, I love em all! So wonderful! Congratulations!
The Noctua L12 Ghost is $55 new on Amazon...are you using Canadian maple money?
I have a Ryzen 5600x in a Phanteks shift XT, started off with a Noctua 65mm cooler it did okay but the CPU almost never boosted to 4.6GZ normally 4.2/3 at best. Swapped to a 240 AIO hit 4.6gz straight away which it would never do previously. Strangely with the air cooler temps never went over 70C, however with the AIO its 55C max. So you would think it would still boost to the max on the air cooler but just would never do it until i installed the AIO.
Exactly this kind of behaviour is the reason people are arguing about aircooling a ryzen 9. Temperaturewise it absolutely works. Only the clocks stay a bit behind their potential.
I think the motherboard is of fault, not the air cooler.
In theory, until a CPU gets to its Tjmax (95°C for 5600X), it should boost at its maximum clock. 70 degree isn't even that high. Many people run Intel Alder Lake on a stock cooler at 90°C, and it still boosts like normal.
It's best to check the motherboard settings when weird things like that happen, water cooling is not magic, it's just cooling with water.
Some motherboards give more TDP to CPU if you connect a water cooling system for some reason, even if the air cooler could have cooled the higher TDP.
@@luckyowl10 That may well be the cause for that phenomenon. It would make sense, for sure.
@@luckyowl10 luckily i have access to two different boards an Aorus pro X570 itx and an B ASrosk B450 also itx, it performed just the same on both boards and improved with the water cooling. Like you i was stumped as my assumption was it should boost fully on the air cooler. I also have a Ryzen 3600XT chip which is a 95 watt TDP, and it did the same thing boosted fully water cooled but not with the air cooler, although in the case the temps were a bit higher 80 on the air cooler and 60 with water cooling.. It's weird though stumped me. I would have preferred to Air cool if I am honest.
What would you say is the best aftermarket fan to use on the IS-55? I’m trying to keep my 5800X3D as cool as possible in my itx build.
Haven’t seen an info on a new cooler that came out under the company “densium” the cooler name being Z39, supposed to be a sff-use cooler and I was curious how it’d stack up!
BTW I successfully cooled a 1950x at 180w stock with 120mm aio in P-ATX V1 :) With 1080ti mini next to it.