03 avalanche had a bad trans fliud leak at the radiator and in the return line, they drove the truck low on fluid a lot until 3-4 started slipping. Now 3-4 is gone. So probably nothing else was the cause but thank you very much for pointing out the importance of checking that drum when hot!
This is the first time I've seen any mechanic or Tech do this in any video on TH-cam. This guy is the real deal. 👍🏻Above the rest. Greetings from CommieFornia aka California U.S.A.🇺🇸 TBD3.0 (Toothless Bull Dog 3.0)
@@scatteredrustyprojects i got a refurbished 4L60E to replace my old one in my 2006 Avalanche. it started stalling in 3rd gear, wouldn't really drive in or above 3rd most of the time, although sometimes it did just fine. im thinking the refurbished transmission they replaced the 3-4 clutch but didn't fix the issue causing it to get damaged since i got that issue very shortly after getting the transmission replaced. im still trying to troubleshoot the issue, but if the 3-4 clutch is broken/damaged would 3rd gear be always broken? or can it sometimes still drive normally? I've been to a dozen mechanics and none have had any answers to my problem so im trying to learn about it so i can get it fixed
@@roaden7637 there are multiple reasons for deficient apply pressure to 3/4 clutches. Both inside the trans and external causes----like MAF. The one I mention in this video is an obscure hidden cause. I was in this industry for 20 years or so before going in profit losing circles chasing down this problem. Hopefully this video has helped someone find why their 3/4 burnt up after rebuild when they've already fixed all other causes.
At GM, we had two units nationwide that had a porous case. We had one in the shop that was a repeat failure, because of the intake hose was folded over on the throttle body. It was an in-range failure, so no MAF code was present. Those units can be temperamental when they fail.
@@scatteredrustyprojects there was a trick that I learned years ago. If you don't have a similar vehicle to compare data to, count the grams per second. At idle, it should be one gram per second, for every cylinder. Plus or minus one gram overall. So for a V8 it's 7-9 grams. But we found our problem, because GM engineering had us take a snapshot of data display. After we emailed it over, they did a frame by frame plot and graph on the tech2. I wish I could remember more, but unfortunately it was years ago.
Bro had me Rollin XD when he kept burning himself I'm yelling at the monitor don't do it bruh don't do it. And he did it 4 times you would think he would already of known not touch it like that after thermal checking it and fully aware lmao.
You could be loosing the ground wire you can fix all the trans you want keep throwing them in the truck you dont fix the ground issue it will smoke the 3-4 clutch packs every time
A heat gun might work. Just not sure if it would heat evenly. Heating in the pot of oil would better simulate how it heats up in the trans. Thanks for watching!
Hi. I saw the video here on TH-cam. You mentioned here in the video about putting green loctite on the input shaft. I Google it and there are several types of green loctite on the website. What part number is the green loctite did you use ?
I’m rebuilding mine now and I done all the test,replaced all the major failing points but never could pin point my exact cause of failure,pump housing looks great,check balls are good but when I did the drum test cold like you said it was ok with just some bubbles but not enough it made me worry,so after this I believe the problem is when it gets hot it’s causing a major leak so tomorrow I’m going to do the fix.Have you ever heard of someone using JB Weld instead of loctite
It's been a while since I've done one of these. Mark the shaft to the drum before pressing apart. I haven't heard of anyone using JB Weld. I think a problem with JB weld is it can block one of the passages if it gobs up in there. Most people replace the drum, especially if the shaft has a loose fit. If the shaft needs to be pressed, I just use the loctite along with hitting the splines with a hammer in the middle of their length to create an interference fit. Just don't hit the leading edge of the splines so they can line up and don't over distort the splines where you tap them.
@@scatteredrustyprojects I can find the permatex green but I can’t find the green loctite but I think they are the same.I will go that route as well.Thank you.Its solid in there for sure so I think loctite would be more than enough
Hello. Thanks for sharing this test. Assuming the problem is known. Is there a test to confirm this before removing the transmission? I'm thinking about the line prssure port be tested with oscilloscope pressure transducer. I mean , early in the morning when its cold , start the vehicle drive a few meters and record the pressure. Then warm up the transmission and check for drop of pressure when 3-4 is been applied. Could this be a valid test?
With the gauge, we would only know there is leak in an active circuit at that time, we just don't know which one without testing individual components.
Mine burnt up twice 100 miles or less..3rd time rebuilder replaced the shaft and some sort of ball in a cage...700r4 but about the same...kickdown geometry and adjustment is right, but when it shifts from second under normal driving throttle it like drops into 3rd not like a punch into 3rd with a sorda slip...but under half or more throttle it shifts like it should with the shift kit and all built stuff in it? Any ideas how to make the 2-3 shift different?
You should make a 4L60e exclusive shop. You would make 5000 dollars a day. I'd pay you 1000 right now, just to trade mine out for one you rebuilt. I mean I pull it out and swap and just core charge it. Every one of these trucks is starting to have this problem. Absolute goldmine.
I don't have the facility or staff to export transmissions. Only local vehicles. While we still see 4L60e, the 6L80 is beginning to outpace it in volume.
You want one for $1,000? I won't build one for less than $1250, and that price is for a core without damage other than friction components. And that's really too cheap.
Silverado 2010 3rd time trans been built first time 25,000 miles second 1990 third time 700 always 3/4 only same issue this thrid time built a check ball was corrected adjusted , any recommendations this rebuilts where done at a Chevrolet dealer great informative Vid
The dealer is bound to build things only to stock GM specs. When I worked at a Ford dealer, we could only use what was available at the parts counter. There are areas of wear in the valve body and pump that might not be getting addressed during the rebuild. If they aren't installing some of the after market products available to address the areas of wear, then their option would be to replace the valve body or pump as an assembly. It's also possible you have the problem listed in this video. Have you checked with any independent transmission shops in your area?
@@scatteredrustyprojects have not next step is that just sucks all that money spent to start over again with parts labor, Appreciate the time to respond !!
what would cause ONLY the low/reverse clutches to burn up in the bottom of the trans, and everything else looks good.., some notes are, missing load release springs, a groove worn in pump body, has plastic 3.4 accumulator piston, tcc valve not locked. thanks
The leak around the shaft was the root cause of repeat 3-4 failure on this particular 4L60e. If the drum/shaft didn't leak it would not have been a problem that snuck up behind us.
replace the drum if it's excessive. Or, if light, press out the shaft, and use green lock-tite to seal around the circuit holes. Lock-tite the splines as well when reassembled. Blow air through the circuits before the lock-tite sets.
Scattered Rusty Projects.....I have an '02 Silverado 1500 4x4 5.3 4l60....Slipping in high gear. Did it 1 day, I stopped after just a few miles, had truck towed home. Trans has been "rebuilt" twice by a "reputable" Trans shop. Only did it in high gear...under load, or going up hill. Any ideas? Thank you sir.
the 3-4 clutch is what seems to be the weak link.. It is applied in 3rd and 4th gears. There are various causes. Internal trans possibilities are wear in the valve body and pump will reduce pressure to apply this clutch. Leaks in the circuit on the way to drum. Proper clearance on the 3-4 clutches. Omitting the load release springs in the drum could cause clutch drag on a forced downshift. A hidden external cause could be Mass Air Flow sensor. The MAF has a direct affect on trans pressure rise. An over oiled K&N air filter can contaminate the MAF, insulating the hot wire part of the sensor causing erroneously low readings. Sometimes a good shop can get caught off guard because of a hidden problem. This video was because one van kicked our butts for a while. Good luck on your repair!
@@scatteredrustyprojects Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day...on a Sunday no less...to answer my question!! Many Kudos to you sir!!!
@@scatteredrustyprojectsThanks for the tip on the KN filter. After my engine was due to an overhaul. I was using KN filter. During the overhaul. I found the intake runners caked with dirt. The KN filter was passing very fine dirt and caked my runners. I got rid of that junk and never used it again.
from what i understand, if the 3-4 clutch is damaged, then gear 3 stalls/acts like its in neutral? im trying to troubleshoot my 2006 avalanche which is having a stalling issue in 3rd gear and i would say its the 3-4 but its not consistently dysfunctional. sometimes it drives just fine but most of the time it doesn't. could this still be the issue?
yes, when the 3/4 clutch has failed, 3rd gear acts like neutral. It might get lucky and sometimes hang on a bit under light conditions. The other scenario is if you go fast enough in 2nd, then it goes to 3rd, feeling like neutral.....if you have just enough mph, taking your foot off the gas it will command 4th. It then feels like the trans is re-engaging. What is actually happening is 2nd and 4th use the same band. The band in on for 2nd, the band turns off as the 3/4 clutches come on for 3rd----but they are not holding so it feels like neutral unless you rev the engine high enough to realize a 1st gear ratio. Under normal conditions in 4th gear the 3/4 clutches will stay engaged and the 2/4 band re applies. Since the 3/4 do no hold, what you actually end up with is a 2nd gear ratio despite the computer commanding 4th. In short, when the 3/4 clutches fail, when starting from a stop it will act as 1st---2nd---N---2nd.
@@scatteredrustyprojects I also wanted to ask, when the 3-4 clutch pack is failing, can this cause the speedometer to flicker? when 3rd gear isnt working in my truck the speedometer will be going between 10 and 80, it will keep doing this even if its forced to stay in second gear although will drive normally in second.
You never said what year you are working on. 96 to 99 they had a computer problem with ground was bad led to 3 4 clutch burn out plug was bad in computer..one more thing not sure your test is accurate... If your trans is running that hot 🔥 you need to fix the problem.. Thank you for the great video
This hidden problem applies to all years of 700 and 4L60e. Yes, 96 had the ground wire issue and that is something to be aware of when working on those years. I try to target the temp of where the shaft fits into the drum to 150-ish which is normal operating temp. The fluid in the bottom of the pot was a bit warmer, but that wouldn't hurt anything for this test. Yes, definitely address any overheating issues. The hotter these get, the more potential there is for the aluminum to expand away from the shaft. Thanks for watching!
03 avalanche had a bad trans fliud leak at the radiator and in the return line, they drove the truck low on fluid a lot until 3-4 started slipping. Now 3-4 is gone. So probably nothing else was the cause but thank you very much for pointing out the importance of checking that drum when hot!
This is the first time I've seen any mechanic or Tech do this in any video on TH-cam.
This guy is the real deal. 👍🏻Above the rest.
Greetings from CommieFornia aka California U.S.A.🇺🇸
TBD3.0 (Toothless Bull Dog 3.0)
Thanks! Finding the root cause to problems is the only way to longevity.
@@scatteredrustyprojects i got a refurbished 4L60E to replace my old one in my 2006 Avalanche. it started stalling in 3rd gear, wouldn't really drive in or above 3rd most of the time, although sometimes it did just fine. im thinking the refurbished transmission they replaced the 3-4 clutch but didn't fix the issue causing it to get damaged since i got that issue very shortly after getting the transmission replaced. im still trying to troubleshoot the issue, but if the 3-4 clutch is broken/damaged would 3rd gear be always broken? or can it sometimes still drive normally? I've been to a dozen mechanics and none have had any answers to my problem so im trying to learn about it so i can get it fixed
@@roaden7637 there are multiple reasons for deficient apply pressure to 3/4 clutches. Both inside the trans and external causes----like MAF. The one I mention in this video is an obscure hidden cause. I was in this industry for 20 years or so before going in profit losing circles chasing down this problem. Hopefully this video has helped someone find why their 3/4 burnt up after rebuild when they've already fixed all other causes.
Good tech, thanks! Built several of these and never had that happen, lucky I guess. I'll be sure to check that on the next one😂
At GM, we had two units nationwide that had a porous case. We had one in the shop that was a repeat failure, because of the intake hose was folded over on the throttle body. It was an in-range failure, so no MAF code was present. Those units can be temperamental when they fail.
MAF problems without codes can be tough to find. Too bad the scanner doesn't have "desired" data for the MAF.
@@scatteredrustyprojects there was a trick that I learned years ago. If you don't have a similar vehicle to compare data to, count the grams per second. At idle, it should be one gram per second, for every cylinder. Plus or minus one gram overall. So for a V8 it's 7-9 grams.
But we found our problem, because GM engineering had us take a snapshot of data display. After we emailed it over, they did a frame by frame plot and graph on the tech2. I wish I could remember more, but unfortunately it was years ago.
Bro had me Rollin XD when he kept burning himself I'm yelling at the monitor don't do it bruh don't do it. And he did it 4 times you would think he would already of known not touch it like that after thermal checking it and fully aware lmao.
@@tylerjones477 it's all part of the job. Must not have been bad enough burn, cause I'd have to watch the video to remember it.
You could be loosing the ground wire you can fix all the trans you want keep throwing them in the truck you dont fix the ground issue it will smoke the 3-4 clutch packs every time
Ground issue ? Very curious Silverado 2010 3 time trans been built first time 25,000 miles second 1990 third time 700 as of now just collecting dust
excellent vid, any other way to test? a heat gun?
A heat gun might work. Just not sure if it would heat evenly. Heating in the pot of oil would better simulate how it heats up in the trans. Thanks for watching!
Hi. I saw the video here on TH-cam. You mentioned here in the video about putting green loctite on the input shaft. I Google it and there are several types of green loctite on the website. What part number is the green loctite did you use ?
Outstanding tips, a video worth watching!
Thanks! I should make transmission videos more often. Hard to find time during the day.
I never realized just how many parts are in an automatic transmission.
I hope my Transmission guy, knows this !
I’m rebuilding mine now and I done all the test,replaced all the major failing points but never could pin point my exact cause of failure,pump housing looks great,check balls are good but when I did the drum test cold like you said it was ok with just some bubbles but not enough it made me worry,so after this I believe the problem is when it gets hot it’s causing a major leak so tomorrow I’m going to do the fix.Have you ever heard of someone using JB Weld instead of loctite
It's been a while since I've done one of these. Mark the shaft to the drum before pressing apart. I haven't heard of anyone using JB Weld. I think a problem with JB weld is it can block one of the passages if it gobs up in there. Most people replace the drum, especially if the shaft has a loose fit. If the shaft needs to be pressed, I just use the loctite along with hitting the splines with a hammer in the middle of their length to create an interference fit. Just don't hit the leading edge of the splines so they can line up and don't over distort the splines where you tap them.
@@scatteredrustyprojects I can find the permatex green but I can’t find the green loctite but I think they are the same.I will go that route as well.Thank you.Its solid in there for sure so I think loctite would be more than enough
@@Horner181 yes, use the green. Threadlock color seems to be the industry standard between brands.
@@scatteredrustyprojects ok thank you.
Hello. Thanks for sharing this test. Assuming the problem is known. Is there a test to confirm this before removing the transmission? I'm thinking about the line prssure port be tested with oscilloscope pressure transducer. I mean , early in the morning when its cold , start the vehicle drive a few meters and record the pressure. Then warm up the transmission and check for drop of pressure when 3-4 is been applied. Could this be a valid test?
With the gauge, we would only know there is leak in an active circuit at that time, we just don't know which one without testing individual components.
That's a great tip man! Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks! Hopefully it helps the next guy to a successful rebuild!
Mine burnt up twice 100 miles or less..3rd time rebuilder replaced the shaft and some sort of ball in a cage...700r4 but about the same...kickdown geometry and adjustment is right, but when it shifts from second under normal driving throttle it like drops into 3rd not like a punch into 3rd with a sorda slip...but under half or more throttle it shifts like it should with the shift kit and all built stuff in it? Any ideas how to make the 2-3 shift different?
You should make a 4L60e exclusive shop. You would make 5000 dollars a day. I'd pay you 1000 right now, just to trade mine out for one you rebuilt. I mean I pull it out and swap and just core charge it. Every one of these trucks is starting to have this problem. Absolute goldmine.
I don't have the facility or staff to export transmissions. Only local vehicles. While we still see 4L60e, the 6L80 is beginning to outpace it in volume.
You want one for $1,000?
I won't build one for less than $1250, and that price is for a core without damage other than friction components. And that's really too cheap.
Silverado 2010 3rd time trans been built first time
25,000 miles second 1990 third time
700 always 3/4 only same issue this thrid time built a check ball was corrected adjusted , any recommendations this rebuilts where done at a Chevrolet dealer great informative Vid
The dealer is bound to build things only to stock GM specs. When I worked at a Ford dealer, we could only use what was available at the parts counter. There are areas of wear in the valve body and pump that might not be getting addressed during the rebuild. If they aren't installing some of the after market products available to address the areas of wear, then their option would be to replace the valve body or pump as an assembly. It's also possible you have the problem listed in this video. Have you checked with any independent transmission shops in your area?
@@scatteredrustyprojects have not next step is that just sucks all that money spent to start over again with parts labor, Appreciate the time to respond !!
@@frankmtz2010 Does the Chevy dealer have a warranty on their work?
@@scatteredrustyprojects inbox me if you’d like the full details
@@scatteredrustyprojects yes and no it’s complicated
what would cause ONLY the low/reverse clutches to burn up in the bottom of the trans, and everything else looks good.., some notes are, missing load release springs, a groove worn in pump body, has plastic 3.4 accumulator piston, tcc valve not locked. thanks
Valve body leaking in the PR circuit or cracked case.
What do you set your clearance on your clutch packs 3-4, forward, reverse input drum....ect?
so what was the actual problem if the drum/shaft didnt leak?..
and that was a great tip!
The leak around the shaft was the root cause of repeat 3-4 failure on this particular 4L60e. If the drum/shaft didn't leak it would not have been a problem that snuck up behind us.
Now it makes sense why at operating temp my 4l60e doesn’t shift.
If is a small leak in da shaft and is burning the clutch 3-4 u think is that the problem??
If there is sufficient leak around the shaft, it is definitely a problem.
What is the fix, when there IS air bubbles??
replace the drum if it's excessive. Or, if light, press out the shaft, and use green lock-tite to seal around the circuit holes. Lock-tite the splines as well when reassembled. Blow air through the circuits before the lock-tite sets.
Scattered Rusty Projects.....I have an '02 Silverado 1500 4x4 5.3 4l60....Slipping in high gear. Did it 1 day, I stopped after just a few miles, had truck towed home. Trans has been "rebuilt" twice by a "reputable" Trans shop. Only did it in high gear...under load, or going up hill. Any ideas? Thank you sir.
the 3-4 clutch is what seems to be the weak link.. It is applied in 3rd and 4th gears. There are various causes. Internal trans possibilities are wear in the valve body and pump will reduce pressure to apply this clutch. Leaks in the circuit on the way to drum. Proper clearance on the 3-4 clutches. Omitting the load release springs in the drum could cause clutch drag on a forced downshift. A hidden external cause could be Mass Air Flow sensor. The MAF has a direct affect on trans pressure rise. An over oiled K&N air filter can contaminate the MAF, insulating the hot wire part of the sensor causing erroneously low readings. Sometimes a good shop can get caught off guard because of a hidden problem. This video was because one van kicked our butts for a while. Good luck on your repair!
@@scatteredrustyprojects Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day...on a Sunday no less...to answer my question!! Many Kudos to you sir!!!
@@scatteredrustyprojectsThanks for the tip on the KN filter. After my engine was due to an overhaul. I was using KN filter. During the overhaul. I found the intake runners caked with dirt. The KN filter was passing very fine dirt and caked my runners. I got rid of that junk and never used it again.
from what i understand, if the 3-4 clutch is damaged, then gear 3 stalls/acts like its in neutral? im trying to troubleshoot my 2006 avalanche which is having a stalling issue in 3rd gear and i would say its the 3-4 but its not consistently dysfunctional. sometimes it drives just fine but most of the time it doesn't. could this still be the issue?
yes, when the 3/4 clutch has failed, 3rd gear acts like neutral. It might get lucky and sometimes hang on a bit under light conditions. The other scenario is if you go fast enough in 2nd, then it goes to 3rd, feeling like neutral.....if you have just enough mph, taking your foot off the gas it will command 4th. It then feels like the trans is re-engaging. What is actually happening is 2nd and 4th use the same band. The band in on for 2nd, the band turns off as the 3/4 clutches come on for 3rd----but they are not holding so it feels like neutral unless you rev the engine high enough to realize a 1st gear ratio. Under normal conditions in 4th gear the 3/4 clutches will stay engaged and the 2/4 band re applies. Since the 3/4 do no hold, what you actually end up with is a 2nd gear ratio despite the computer commanding 4th. In short, when the 3/4 clutches fail, when starting from a stop it will act as 1st---2nd---N---2nd.
@@scatteredrustyprojects thanks for the info! I really appreciate it. hopefully i can get this fixed and have it driving well soon, thanks!
@@scatteredrustyprojects I also wanted to ask, when the 3-4 clutch pack is failing, can this cause the speedometer to flicker? when 3rd gear isnt working in my truck the speedometer will be going between 10 and 80, it will keep doing this even if its forced to stay in second gear although will drive normally in second.
Awesome tip bud
thanks, it was nagging me for 3 sets of 3-4 clutches before coming to this conclusion.
@@scatteredrustyprojectsI bet, Well done for thinking outside the box 💪
Nice video!
You never said what year you are working on. 96 to 99 they had a computer problem with ground was bad led to 3 4 clutch burn out plug was bad in computer..one more thing not sure your test is accurate... If your trans is running that hot 🔥 you need to fix the problem.. Thank you for the great video
This hidden problem applies to all years of 700 and 4L60e. Yes, 96 had the ground wire issue and that is something to be aware of when working on those years. I try to target the temp of where the shaft fits into the drum to 150-ish which is normal operating temp. The fluid in the bottom of the pot was a bit warmer, but that wouldn't hurt anything for this test. Yes, definitely address any overheating issues. The hotter these get, the more potential there is for the aluminum to expand away from the shaft. Thanks for watching!
You need to make a rubber plug on a old screwdriver or something to block the air hole. No need to burn your finger
A604 transmissions or 41te is more durable
604 was very popular in its day. We still are a lot of 62te.
The 604s definitely had their share of problems, particularly lube related issues causing catastrophic planetary failures and snap ring breakage.
Good information! Anders
Thanks! It took a few tries to determine this....if it helps someone avoid the same pitfall, them it wasn't as waste of time.
I'll bet the 2-4 band was smoked also
👍
New subscriber 🔥🔥🔥
If my rear end smells funny what should I do?
pull the plug, take a wif and look for debris
Take a shower and scrub in there really good. Get clean underwear and pants on for after the shower.
@@kylegreen378 Thanks for the input I will give that a shot. Getting the pants on the rear might be tuff but I figure a leg for each axel
@@stunem9743 Put the longest part in the pants first. For me, i have to start with my huge driveshaft.
@@kylegreen378 I wasn't even thinking of getting the drive shaft in. That's just too big and long to fit
4l60 is a 🗑️ transmission