no way that an internet guitar warehouse is going to give you personalized service through your computer screen like an aware shop owner can across his counter, long live local music stores !
I live in West LA and you may be surprised to find out that about all that's left is GC. Retail in person took a heavy blow because rent is so high. It burns my ass that I live in probably one of the guitar playing capitols of the world and I can't get a set up done in under a week anywhere that I've asked.
Mark, this is exactly why I watch TH-cam. I want to hear reality from real people, sharing their little piece of life with everyone else. This is so much better than anything on TV or coming out of the propaganda mills. Thanks for your honesty. I’ve got my vintage Martins and Gibsons at this point and am out of the market. But I do enjoy keeping up on it closely. I wish you all the success with your channel and your store. Cheers ❤
It's the post COVID effect too, so many people got guitars during COVID and now that they have gone back to regular life routines, those guitars are just sitting around unused and they want to recoup some of the investment by selling them - you can call it an "apocalypse" I call it an opportunity to pick up some good quality barely used gear at a discount. I have even found some great deals at my local shops, but most are loaded with vintage gear that's out of my budget.
Exactly! I see the same thing happening with Mountain Bikes (my other hobby). Everyone wanted something to do during covid, and suppliers couldn't keep enough in stock. Now people are selling them off, and manufactures over stocked thinking the boom would never end. Now new and used prices have been driven down significantly
The value of a store is you can play the guitar and discover if you really like and bond with it. Most online purchases I have later sold, especially acoustics. The ones I keep usually store bought. I spent an hour or more playing those guitars because they felt and sounded great in ways I could not have anticipated. Wish there were more stores.
Thank you for being a level head and explaining the viewpoint of someone who not only sees the dealer's side of things (I used to work at a mom-n-pop shop so I appreciate this a LOT), but also is encouraging people to look at the economy more objectively to see that it's not the "doom-and-gloom" scenario some infotainment outlets want their demographic to believe. A lot of folks don't understand the mechanics of dealer pricing, and they're easily rattled by what we saw happen with the pandemic's effects on sales (and guitar culture in general), so it's good to have people like you explaining it in a way where folks who struggle with elements they're not too familiar with can better comprehend. Well done!
I love your insight. As a Canadian, much of our economy is driven by the U.S. economy. So that is why I tune into sites such as yours. Thank-you for what you do, never give up the ship. Cheers.
Not everyone is suffering, Taylor Swift came thru town and even though prices averaged 450.00, she sold 55,000 tickets within 3 hours and would have sold twice that if late buyers didn’t miss out. Plenty of blue collar workers brought their kids, spending over 1K for a concert…
April 2024, looking in the UK at the used SGs and Les Pauls, on eBay and Reverb. Even still, it seems to be mainly pro/semi pro flippers snapping up the genuine private sales that come up and still relisting them at high prices - it just continues on and on but very little is moving. I’m looking forward to this situation collapsing so the the used market can go back to mostly private sellers asking a reasonable price.
Loved the point you made about buying in a guitar from a store. I hear so many stories of badly set up guitars ordered online. I always buy from my locals store for that piece of mind.
Get to know your local dealer, even if that is Guitar Center. After they get to know you they generally give good advice and are honest when they can't. Also if your local store doesn't have a tech or luthier, they can usually recommend one.
As someone looking to learn to play, looking online the prices are crazy! You can buy new cheaper! And get a warranty as well as additional help with an issues.
I've been playing and buying guitars for 30 years. USUALLY if you are able to get 60% of what you paid for a guitar new (this is selling by yourself) you are doing alright. Think of guitars like car prices (pre Pandemic) where as soon as it leaves the door the price drops significantly. Outside of the Pandemic that's how it worked. I've owned over 60 guitars and with the exception of the last Squier I bought (all used) I paid $60 or less for player's grade models. A used Squier Affinity is not worth more than a new one. Just so you know,all of the Squiers I bought are from the Standard Line (pre Classic Vibes) and those sold nowhere near Affinity or Bullet prices. So lots of people are going to take a bath on their gear if they try to hold out for what they paid or anywhere near that when they actually sell it.
Back iin the 80s i worked at a serious vintage store just as used was morphing into "vintage" It was the time of flouresent color pointy headstock floyd rose guitars U could leave a 73 strat on the front steps at closing and it would be there when u opened next day I had the great idea to start buying all these 300 and 400 dollar usa strats and pauls I was told by several big players dont waste my time they will never appreciate in value Boy did i get screwed....lol...u live and learn
I have this dream all the time! My time was a little later though, so I'm always wishing I would have bought all those dirt cheap Japanese guitars when I was a kid before people realized how good they actually were. Pretty sure most USA Strats and Paul's were a bit out of my price range when I was old enough to have money in my pocket, but I probably could have scored a few of them
@@shanewright9735 Man those early Japanese strats were killer guitars....saw dozens of them either on trade or in for repair I did some repair work on a few of the owners guitars and he let me pick be tween 3 or 4 import stats the one I picked became my main gigging guitar for years and it was dead stock except for a hot rails I put in bridge Awesome totally under radar guitars
@@shanewright9735 Those early import strats were awesome guitars I had one as my main guitar for years put a hot rails in bridge and I was good to go Played every dive and biker bar between Virginia and NY w that guitar😁
Inflation hasn’t been seriously in the mix for around 4o years. The market is priced in dollars. The market is a way to hedge against inflation. Eventually however, inflation must be brought under control or our entire economy will collapse under the weight of extreme levels of debt and ever rising interest payments. Last year we had 1 trillion of personal credit card debt, now it’s already 1.7 trillion. We owe 34 trillion as a nation. Just the interest payment on that debt is more than our military budget. People are borrowing just to pay rent and buy groceries. It’s a slow moving train wreck. It’s going to be challenging if not impossible for those with high debt levels.
I am debt-free every debt I accumulate gets paid in 3 0 days it is on the individual to keep his spending and debt down. As Led Zeppelin once said " Nobody's fault but mine"
The flaw in your argument is that the _solution_ to the debt problem _is_ inflation. The high inflation of the 70's and 80's is how the boomers came to be so "wealthy" the houses that they bought with high-valued (relatively) 1960 and early 70's was paid for with dollars that became massively eroded by inflation and repaid years later with cheap dollars. In other words, the "crushing debt" you incurred when you were earning $100/week became inconsequential when your pay had increased to $1,000/week due to inflation.
@@pulaski1 reasonable levels of inflation over time can be managed. Runaway or rapid inflation cannot. It is a destroyer and it’s an extremely difficult genie to reign in once it’s out of the bottle.
@ironmikehallowween Agreed, but luckily we don't currently have wild, or "runaway" inflation. What has happened in the US over the past couple of years is mild compared to what has been happening in Turkey, and _extremely_ mild compared to what various countries in South America have experienced sporadically over the past 50 years.
Bought my last guitar at Gary’s. Went in looking for something with a Floyd Rose, they happened to have a frankenstrat put together by and equipped with Stonewall pickups. Never heard of a Sofia trem system, now I can’t imagine life without. Same with the pickups. Got exactly what I wanted and beyond. Many thanks Marc!
The economy is fine if you're part of the ownership or white collar class - your accounts are doing fine. If you're part of the working class, it's quite difficult to afford the necessities of life. Rents are insane even for menial apartments - and home ownership is simply out of the question for most. There's a lot of BS'ing around the metrics used to characterize the state of the economy. Unemployed is claimed to be down because they simply stop counting people who have given up looking for work. And these metrics don't capture the huge number of people who are under-employed.
As I'm currently laid off, thanks for the empathy and the information. I didn't take any offense from your previous video though. The great thing is, like you said, you can get a great guitar for a couple hundred bucks that you'll be able to play for your lifetime. Unfortunately, if someone is winning big like that, someone else is probably losing big on the other side. God bless us all - everyone.
Also, to the people who complain about guitar companies pricing stuff too high, there’s one way to fix that real fast: don’t buy it. Gibson only charges astronomical prices because people pay it. Same with any other company. Now if they don’t sell any at that price, they’re faced with the option to either reduce the price to something more reasonable, or just not sell it - which is _not_ an option for them
@@cornstar1253 I take it one step further. I only buy used. Used MIK Epiphones are just as good as Gibsons (at least mine are) and are 1/10th of the price 💪So I definitely agree
....and Gibson SUUUUUUUUUCKS now. Agree with you 100%, sir. PEOPLE PLEASE, STOP BUYING GIBSON GUITARS...the build quality is shameful for the prices being asked. By used or some other brand, if you can.
The reason people perceive the economy as bad is because of high food and energy prices. Many people are cutting back on non-necessary purchases like buying guitars, art and karate lessons etc. because of the perception of a bad economy.
@@TomBaddleyCorporate greed? Most are operating on margins thinner than David Lee Roth's hairline. They have bills to pay too, they don't get a pass on inflation, they have to pay just like everybody else. Many won't be around in two years because of this, and it has nothing to do with greed.
Honestly, I think this applies to vintage instruments to some degree as well. I don't think there will be an overstock of them necessarily, but expect to see prices flatten out and decrease to an extent. The demographic that collects vintage instruments (has the money to) is aging. It seems like everyday now I see a post online about a vintage guitar that someone just inherited, and they want to know what it's worth. Often times they don't even play, or if they do, could use the money more than a vintage guitar.
Dude got me an 80s US strat for 1200 cash Australian dollars . He was crack dealer who was gonna sell it to a pawn shop to recoup what he was owed which was 1200 . When I picked it up to have a quick jam and he saw me play it . He said its yours man . STOKED
Regardless of a person's personal economy, people will always buy what they want to buy, go where they want to go, etc. But buying power has definitely decreased.
There is an old saying that if America sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold, and this is very true at the moment. The whole used guitar market is now flooded as the buyers who bought them during the pandemic are now trying to sell them, but the demand is not there, hence values will only keep going down for mass market guitars. The higher end samples from the established brands will always find a buyer, but not anywhere near the price you paid for them.
Inflation remains a problem. Why? Because even though the current inflation numbers are lower than the last couple of years, it's a cumulative thing. The current number is in addition to the sky high number from a year or two years ago. FYI, the number indicative of the level of inflation does not include consumables like food/groceries and fuel. Consumer price index is a better indicator of where the economy is headed. Also look at trends in credit card debt. It's scary.
You don't get it, Gary. Metrics and measurements told, right now, don't matter for squat. THE DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. When the price of a value meal has more than doubled; when groceries cost 40% more for less product; when fuel prices stay constantly high without relief; when some people are FORCED TO WORK FOUR PART-TIME JOBS- NO, metrics and measurements are bogus when you open yourself to the reality of the streets. I'm glad that you aren't suffering and that your niche of the market is okay. You were part of the surviving 60% of small businesses after 2020! Good for you! A lot of other good people who used to own their own business weren't so lucky. But people aren't lying, and not buying, because they are playing Politics. POLITICS PLAYED THE PEOPLE.
You're confusing profit maximization with the economy, these companies charge what they charge to satisfy shareholders, that's not the economy, that's shareholder capitalism. Republicans did this in the 80s by promoting maximizing shareholder value as the primary purpose of publicly traded companies, cutting the corporate tax rates and cutting the top individual tax rates from 70% down to 35% under Reagan. Politics didn't play the people, people played themselves by buying into "trickle down economics" which is total bullshit and has resulted in a massive wealth disparity while something like 40% of eligible voters DO NOT VOTE which favors Republicans. If everyone did their civic duty, we could turn this all around tomorrow but people are still sitting out elections in droves.
Get a real job. Walmart doesn’t count. Trump really screwed us by printing all that money and giving away stimulus checks. Bums took those I just worked like a man is supposed to. Not fukin whine about everything. Grow a pair.
@@jeremysmetana8583that’s hard when one ideology sells bullshit and another will send you to prison for disagreeing with them. We are in serious trouble unless more people learn and embrace alternative political ideologies
Prices on almost everything have doubled and sometimes tripled since Covid. Pay has remained stagnant. This might not affect 30 percent of people but the other 70 percent feel it.
I was looking at PRS guitars from a local dealer like 6 months ago, darn expensive guitars. They've since had another price hike it seems. None of them are moving.
Every day it seems I see a new brand of guitar hit the market and the Chinese, Korean, and other low priced guitars just keep getting better and better. I'm actually kind of surprised that Fender and Gibson are still in business.
Consumer debt is at an all time high. Real estate is in a bubble state. Housing costs are over the cliff. Sorry dude, the economy is a house of cards. When it comes down it will be global and epic.
Thanks Mark for being spot on with your macro and micro economic outlook. I wish you well in your guitar business adventure. Open a roth ira as well for backup!
Brilliant explanation over the two videos. You are a sincere guy who is playing it straight. I would vote for you as a politicians because you seem honest. If I lived in the States I would travel to your store to check out your stock and just to hang with you for a while. Keep up the good work.
Really hard to get young customers to brick and mortar stores anymore. Brands are so focused on immediate gratification, there’s little in the way of the good old experience you’d get walking into a store or a mall and just look at stuff, thinking ‘if I save enough, I’ll be able to by me that nice Strat’. Now it’s just one click for this, and free 6 months credit, and free delivery within a day or two. Eventually though, there’ll be a correction of that as well: people will realize how wrong it is to buy so much crap and what’s wrong with the whole value chain. Re guitar stores, I’ll say this: the sales guy should have tell me to buy that gold top for $2,000 back in 91 instead of my $1,300 ovation (still have it and fell back in love w it). And sales people at GC and Sweetwater aren’t musicians and rude af.
From a player's perspective - ROI on musical instruments is the enjoyment of playing them. Expecting anything more than that is a recipe for disappointment.
I’ve had some good success moving gear recently. All used non vintage..I guess it really depends on your pricing and the desirability of the item for sale. I have priced items accordingly based on recent sales. IMHO..I think that the Fender Custom Shop instruments will take a beating in the used market place since they were over priced to begin with. With regard to the economy..7-8% interest rates for home buyers is not a good thing.
Home loans will be 12% by the end of the year. You think there is a used guitar apocalypse? Wait until you see what is about to happen in real estate {both commercial and residential}. Slaughterhouse.
When HB, Jet, Fazley and others offer strats or teles with roasted necks (worth $500+ elsewhere) for a retail price of $150+ you obviously do not need to consider the "main" brands. If you are a man and know how to use a file and a screwdriver you possess enough skill to do basic setup on a budget guitar. It would be crazy to think of it as an investment, when a quality instrument can be had for the price of a no frills family dinner. The big brands have themselves to blame for moving their production to China 30-40 yrs ago and letting people without respect for copyright to learn wood and guitar production. It would be obvious for a 7yr old to realize that a flood of copycats would follow especially with advent of CNC and other modern manufacturing technology. Thanks Gary for keeping us up to date.
Reverbies include a great number of people who own vintage guitars as investors, collectors, and some legit sales cites. These guitars also have value to legit musicians, but seldom because they can use them to produce popular music or music that will draw crowds. They can nevertheless produce high quality vintage and restyled vintage music on them if they could afford them, which they seldom can. Plain and simple, maybe half to 95% of all quality made vintage guitars are owned and collected by individuals who can afford to invest or just collect them but can seldom do more than strum a few chords. IMO.
People have been saying the economy is bad since 1776 and theyll continue saying that for eternity.When the economy is great people still complain. Live on a budget.Dont spend more than you earn.
Like your vids, I'm a novice guitarist from England I have 4 guitars 1 was a gift from a friend and q I brought new the other 2 I bought from a local used guitar shop they are quality I love my 4 guitars lol 👍🎸🎸🎸
Thank you for making this video and sharing your perspectives on all this. I want to add a broader point that sort of backs up what you are saying. Starting maybe 4 or 5 years ago there seems to be a glut of used gear on the market. It used to be easy for me to move used gear but it’s much slower now and there is a lot of competition for the same item. I suspect that consumer habits may have changed as well. I have a feeling guitarists buy a lot of stuff online (especially pedals) and sell them shortly after and this puts a lot of gear onto FB, CL and RV. Suppliers are producing at a high volume to keep up with this and pumping this stuff out. You mentioned that Reverb listings give the impression that items are worth more than they really are and that might be true. Interestingly Reverb openly says that a large amount of sales on their site are from LOW OFFERS built into their site. As a consumer this fact is mostly obscured unless you know how to look for it.
Mark,your comment about the other stores in your town closing really made me think. When I was just starting my journey in music the local music store was like a club where we went to see all the latest gear and new instruments. We were meant to feel like we were part of a big community. We aspired to get better and to work our way up to the next best guitar. We were encouraged by each other and by the store owners. Lifelong friendships were made, bands were formed, and our love of music was nurtured, all in that music store. Well, the internet killed that, didn’t it? You could draw a direct parallel from a music store to a record store as well.
You can draw a direct parallel with everything in life because of the internet. A lot of people don’t go to the grocery store anymore. They use delivery services instead of going to restaurants. They work from home. Isolation is becoming a major problem for us as naturally social beings. The result is on the way. There’s going to be major emotional challenges in our society within 15 years or less if another means of social interaction doesn’t unfold. Young people walk out of their last college class and never end up having daily friendships again.
Hi this is Bill. I was in your store the other night, after hours. I was snooping around and was about to steal a bunch of guitars and then I read the price label; so cheap! I thought to my self, "self why steal these when I can come and buy them at this reduced price?". Anyways, I'll be in tomorrow and I'll pay for the broken glass too.
Yes Mark the economy is good, that is why I work as an automotive technician making 17 an hour and when I go on lunch I pay $17 for a sandwich, chip and drink. so they're essentially saying that 1 hour of my trade, tools, experience and bodys health is worth a sandwich, I think you need to rethink things soon and fast. Check inflation calculation especially against past wages and home prices, and just general commodities like gasoline and groceries.
Like he said, some people are having a hard time, but many are not. By the way, you could make your own lunch. When you buy lunch, you are paying for other people's time and the business's overhead.
Yes. A sandwich, chip, and drink is not worth $17. So it’s not fair to say that you’re getting paid a sandwich as an hourly rate. Make a lunch for less than $5. That’s the true cost of the goods. Otherwise you’re paying for luxury of having a servant make your food for you. And if you can’t afford servants, nobody is feeling bad for you.
People do not sell their "extra" guitars unless they need the money! Pure and simple. They don't sell them because of a fiction of their imagination. Its not a perception that the dollar is not worth the same amount as it was 4 years ago. Its worth about 20 % less, that is a fact. So when the cost of food, energy, taxes and the like go up, people sell their extra stuff so they can buy what they need. I agree the market is flooded but it is not because people are tricked into thinking the economy is bad, its because they need the money or many people bought guitars during the pandemic and never really learned to play and they want to get rid of their gear. This is much more likely.
Great content and very sensible response to the criticism from the video. I personally loved the previous vid as a slice of life from a unique set of experiences
So true you said..." for a few hundred dollars you can find a (high quality built) guitar for life. I visit the pawn shops and judge the guitars by its playability,l intonation ,action, I don't bother plugging it in..about every six months i find an amazing cheap instrument, a few times a decade Ill find a cheap holy grail classical instrument
Hello, Mr. Gary, like the video and just like the other one you made both make a lot of sense, but do you sell all alone? Would love to see some of your have a website. One could go to browse or possibly purchase
I noticed people think they should get half of the newest versions value for their factory guitar center guitar. Just because it’s 30 years old doesn’t mean it’s worth more. Mind blowing that people think their assembly line guitars should increase in value.
Thanks for the videos. I have a couple guitars for sale on Reverb, vintage and non-vintage. My experience over the last couple years is that almost everyone is low balling and guitars aren't moving - the ones I'm trying to sell and the ones on my watchlist.
If guitars aren't moving then the prices being offered aren't low. It's not like there's some secret cache of buyers that are willing to pay more, but simply aren't bothering to. Sellers are just refusing to accept the reality that their guitars are worth exactly what buyers are willing to pay for them, not what they want to sell them for.
Well said, I am personally a victim of this via a Novo Solus, I bought into the pandemic hype and had to have one. I know I won't get all my money back, unless I wait on it. I am completely satisfied with the guitar and intend to keep it for as long as I can. I have only sold one guitar and that was after the 2008 boom and bust. It was a '68 Gibson LG-1 lost $50 on that one because I couldn't deal with the 9/916th neck. Now I wish I still had it as it is worth three times what I first paid for it. Live and learn. I would love to hear your take on the Pedal market.
Thanks for the info! I have been to your store many years ago & even bought a used acoustic there. Unfortunately, due to age related health issues I now own a small collection of acoustic guitars I can no longer play & would like to sell them. Based on your thoughts of impending "guitarmaggedon" it seems I am stuck.....would you advise a person in my shoes to wait it out or.....what exactly?
We've seen the same thing in the 2nd hand marketplace here too, I'm a bass player mainly, but I also own a drum kit... and post Pandemic I've managed to put together my drum kit with basically THE group of high quality cymbals (which I have NEVER owned before) I've wanted for it, for a fraction of the price... every cymbal was about half-price or a bit lower... best buy was a 21" Zildjian Organic Ride, which would retail go for about $750-800 AU, and 2nd hand similar things usually go for about $400-600 AU depending on condition: I got it for $250. It's a specialty cymbal, and not what common rock players want... so they just sit there online for ages (I think I bookmarked it and it was there for like 6weeks, then I just offered low, he sold it to me). I have seen similar things in all used market musical instruments here in Melbourne Australia! (hello from Australia!)... most people are getting rid of there extra stuff, and there is glut of instruments of all types on the 2nd hand market, and considering the lack of uptake of playing musical instruments, and the what a precarious career choice it is (as proven by the Pandemic, Melbourne had 2 years of lockdowns on and off), the 2nd hand instrument market is only going to get worse and lower priced I'd say.. (in the non-vintage stuff, as you say). So much so as you say, I AM also looking to buy a guitar and make an amp for it, as prices are so low, and opportunities come up atm...
Look at you and your facts! This is social media no one wants or believes facts! 😁 I guess this means it is a buyer's market! Since I am the king of cheap guitars I'm gonna have to keep my eyes peeled for something goofy and cool to add to my collection! 🎸😊
Godd videos, Mark; however, I'm in Canada and looking for non-vintage guitars on Ebay is ridiculous, as there are very few available, in any price range; one problem is shipping cost which has gone way up in Canada (and even higher in US); Reverb also charge a lot for shipping, then they up the price to cover commissions, and here in Quebec it's 15% more for sales tax on top of that; as far as Fender new guitars from any retail store up here, (and Squier), their standard items are out there, but what people really want are always on back-order somehow, and you can never get a definite delivery date. Since I can't afford vintage guitars, and I don't want to pre-order without a set delivery date, I tend to give up on everything; I was looking for a Squier Starcaster Classic Vibe guitar, which were reissued 4 years ago and were so popular, that you can't get them anymore, and they are discontinued again!
I just sold 3 used guitars on facebook in my area and a fender amp within a month for more than I paid. Hoping to sell 3 more to make room on my guitar rack. But I do agree it's comming because I found and bought a open box american fender pro 2 for $1,050.00 originally $1800 I love awsome deals if I could only find a steal on a gibson les paul classic.
There are two prices - the buying price and the selling price. With few exceptions the selling price once left a shop is going to be atleast 25% below the buying price which is the tax element of the product. Yes in a booming market with demand there are people that will pay up when things start to stall the everything plunges because the free flow capital has been sucked out of people. Here is an example of image, Rolex are regarded as an exclusive brand made in small numbers with high end Swiss workers. Reality - Rolex make over a million watches a year every year - are they made by skilled Swiss workers ? Nope they are made by French workers who cross the border every day because the taxes in France are half those of Switzerland plus the cost of living is about half too. Now put that into the guitar market with Fender and Gibson, their production numbers are huge not the same level as the 50s 60s or even 70s or 80s. More guitars are made by one manufacturer in a week than were made in the whole of the 50s. Scarcity makes value - image makes value in bull markets - bear markets show the delusion that existed in the bull market.
The entire market was squeezed by the inability for companies to produce. People went from first to second choice on guitars, to third and eventually to just "give me any ****ing guitar I can actually buy and have delivered this month". I dont think the market will do another 2008, but it appears in all collecting hobbies there is going to be a noticeable correction. In fact, things will likely overshoot equilibrium the other way for a bit before stabilizing again, assuming we don't have any other major events. It remains to be seen if the looming boomer retirements/deaths, which are simply an inevitable consequence of the passage of time, also start putting downward pressure on prices. We're about to experience a massive shift of wealth and a lot of guitars are gonna get sold by kids of players which is normal and fine by itself, but there's a LOT more boomers than any other generation so... not sure the money or interest is there to soak up the stuff coming onto the market.
Love to hear this perspective. We hear way too much from the usual guitar influencer who's just trying to make money on affiliate links. It's good to hear from the POV of a shop owner.
A great 'Part 2' on the current state of the Guitar Economy... It mirrors my current experience. I'm a lefty who buys and sells fairly regularly on Reverb, and things are very slow right now. Stuff that isn't popular/high demand/rare is simply sitting there. You're right: the market is flooded with shutdown purchases that are looking for new homes. Only no one has the time to play, nor can they afford a new instrument (or the one they bought with stimulus money!). All the stimulus "free" money during the shutdown (I refuse to call it a pandemic; it wasn't) sold a LOT of guitars; I sold 5 guitars in a month during that time frame. At least two of those guitars were impossible to sell before; they moved at around 15%-20% more than I could have previously hoped because of the easy money people were getting. Now, of course, we're paying for that "boom".
I've bought my expensive Music Man Cutlass online and I am totally satisfied. But knowing what I know now I would never buy such pricey instrument online again. Things get very different when playing and hearing them, and there are so many great valuable surprises in the physical guitar stores. Sure, we can return it but.... Sometimes affordable stuff is great and vice versa. Plus, it is very reasuring to know that I have done my research and comparissons and have the best instrument for my money.
Here are the things I am seeing, a mid end type guitar (Schecter, Ibanez, and my current interest Hagstrom) seems to be able to be had above $450 at some times, and usually never above $1000 even for their most expensive models. However, the difference between their new and used/b stock prices is usually around $200-300. Gibson and Fender actually are more likely to have differences in new vs. used price because of initial price tag vs. market demand. In my head I should be able to buy a used Gibson Les Paul Studio for somewhere between $900-$1500… based on prices of the last few years and which model it actually is (this can’t be understated, not all guitars are created equally). However, that could easily sneak back down to $650-$1200 if the demand needs of players changes. But, sometimes you pay based on availability, versus the actual value. I encourage anyone wanting one of the new “overpriced” Epiphones to give those a shot, they are pretty cool, if you don’t want to wait for used to go down.
There is also the fact that a lot of people who picked up playing guitar during covid only know the covid era market and now want to sell their guitars because they do not want to continue playing.
no way that an internet guitar warehouse is going to give you personalized service through your computer screen like an aware shop owner can across his counter, long live local music stores !
I live in West LA and you may be surprised to find out that about all that's left is GC. Retail in person took a heavy blow because rent is so high. It burns my ass that I live in probably one of the guitar playing capitols of the world and I can't get a set up done in under a week anywhere that I've asked.
Mark, this is exactly why I watch TH-cam. I want to hear reality from real people, sharing their little piece of life with everyone else. This is so much better than anything on TV or coming out of the propaganda mills. Thanks for your honesty. I’ve got my vintage Martins and Gibsons at this point and am out of the market. But I do enjoy keeping up on it closely. I wish you all the success with your channel and your store. Cheers ❤
I depend on California Representative Adam Schiff (D) for my reality.
his name is gary not jeff
HOW DARE YOU BE SO REASONABLE!!!!😂
Yeah! "There oughta be a law!" 😊😊
It's the post COVID effect too, so many people got guitars during COVID and now that they have gone back to regular life routines, those guitars are just sitting around unused and they want to recoup some of the investment by selling them - you can call it an "apocalypse" I call it an opportunity to pick up some good quality barely used gear at a discount. I have even found some great deals at my local shops, but most are loaded with vintage gear that's out of my budget.
Exactly! I see the same thing happening with Mountain Bikes (my other hobby). Everyone wanted something to do during covid, and suppliers couldn't keep enough in stock. Now people are selling them off, and manufactures over stocked thinking the boom would never end. Now new and used prices have been driven down significantly
Better an unwanted guitar than an unwanted dog.
@@shanewright9735I think Bike shops are getting monkey hammered right now after having their greatest year ever in 2020
Yes, way too many guitars out there.
@@MrThebigcheese75; Well said sir.
The value of a store is you can play the guitar and discover if you really like and bond with it. Most online purchases I have later sold, especially acoustics. The ones I keep usually store bought. I spent an hour or more playing those guitars because they felt and sounded great in ways I could not have anticipated. Wish there were more stores.
Thank you for being a level head and explaining the viewpoint of someone who not only sees the dealer's side of things (I used to work at a mom-n-pop shop so I appreciate this a LOT), but also is encouraging people to look at the economy more objectively to see that it's not the "doom-and-gloom" scenario some infotainment outlets want their demographic to believe. A lot of folks don't understand the mechanics of dealer pricing, and they're easily rattled by what we saw happen with the pandemic's effects on sales (and guitar culture in general), so it's good to have people like you explaining it in a way where folks who struggle with elements they're not too familiar with can better comprehend. Well done!
I love your insight. As a Canadian, much of our economy is driven by the U.S. economy. So that is why I tune into sites such as yours. Thank-you for what you do, never give up the ship. Cheers.
Not everyone is suffering, Taylor Swift came thru town and even though prices averaged 450.00, she sold 55,000 tickets within 3 hours and would have sold twice that if late buyers didn’t miss out.
Plenty of blue collar workers brought their kids, spending over 1K for a concert…
well that was done on credit. lol
Yes indeed. 👍 The herd instinct. The big also get bigger (the Matthew principle).
People are literally nuts.😂
April 2024, looking in the UK at the used SGs and Les Pauls, on eBay and Reverb. Even still, it seems to be mainly pro/semi pro flippers snapping up the genuine private sales that come up and still relisting them at high prices - it just continues on and on but very little is moving. I’m looking forward to this situation collapsing so the the used market can go back to mostly private sellers asking a reasonable price.
You need to make more content. I love your videos.
Thank you for sharing your views and wisdom !
They jacked guitar prices and flooded the market at the same time... Guitar prices are going to get real cheap if they want to stay in business...
Loved the point you made about buying in a guitar from a store. I hear so many stories of badly set up guitars ordered online. I always buy from my locals store for that piece of mind.
Get to know your local dealer, even if that is Guitar Center.
After they get to know you they generally give good advice and are honest when they can't.
Also if your local store doesn't have a tech or luthier, they can usually recommend one.
Thank you this is a most useful and important video series.
As someone looking to learn to play, looking online the prices are crazy! You can buy new cheaper! And get a warranty as well as additional help with an issues.
Great video (again)! “Word salad” is now my new favorite phrase.
I cant be the only viewer to have my eyes on that orange LP and the gold PRS.
Funny how we scrutinize every square inch of his shop in the background, looking for something we GAS for.
I have my eyes on the Jaguar next to them. Woof!
The orange is a Hagstrom Swede.
I’m looking at 2 and they aren’t the ones you are.
There's no Les Paul there
I've been playing and buying guitars for 30 years. USUALLY if you are able to get 60% of what you paid for a guitar new (this is selling by yourself) you are doing alright. Think of guitars like car prices (pre Pandemic) where as soon as it leaves the door the price drops significantly. Outside of the Pandemic that's how it worked.
I've owned over 60 guitars and with the exception of the last Squier I bought (all used) I paid $60 or less for player's grade models. A used Squier Affinity is not worth more than a new one. Just so you know,all of the Squiers I bought are from the Standard Line (pre Classic Vibes) and those sold nowhere near Affinity or Bullet prices.
So lots of people are going to take a bath on their gear if they try to hold out for what they paid or anywhere near that when they actually sell it.
Yeah, I totally agree with this. COVID was an anomaly. The economy is stabilizing finally
Back iin the 80s i worked at a serious vintage store just as used was morphing into "vintage"
It was the time of flouresent color pointy headstock floyd rose guitars
U could leave a 73 strat on the front steps at closing and it would be there when u opened next day
I had the great idea to start buying all these 300 and 400 dollar usa strats and pauls
I was told by several big players dont waste my time they will never appreciate in value
Boy did i get screwed....lol...u live and learn
Sounds like the stuff dreams are made of!😁
I have this dream all the time! My time was a little later though, so I'm always wishing I would have bought all those dirt cheap Japanese guitars when I was a kid before people realized how good they actually were. Pretty sure most USA Strats and Paul's were a bit out of my price range when I was old enough to have money in my pocket, but I probably could have scored a few of them
Same happened to those pointy guitars
@@shanewright9735
Man those early Japanese strats were killer guitars....saw dozens of them either on trade or in for repair
I did some repair work on a few of the owners guitars and he let me pick be
tween 3 or 4 import stats the one I picked became my main gigging guitar for years and it was dead stock except for a hot rails I put in bridge
Awesome totally under radar guitars
@@shanewright9735
Those early import strats were awesome guitars
I had one as my main guitar for years put a hot rails in bridge and I was good to go
Played every dive and biker bar between Virginia and NY w that guitar😁
Inflation hasn’t been seriously in the mix for around 4o years. The market is priced in dollars. The market is a way to hedge against inflation. Eventually however, inflation must be brought under control or our entire economy will collapse under the weight of extreme levels of debt and ever rising interest payments. Last year we had 1 trillion of personal credit card debt, now it’s already 1.7 trillion. We owe 34 trillion as a nation. Just the interest payment on that debt is more than our military budget. People are borrowing just to pay rent and buy groceries. It’s a slow moving train wreck. It’s going to be challenging if not impossible for those with high debt levels.
I am debt-free every debt I accumulate gets paid in 3 0 days it is on the individual to keep his spending and debt down. As Led Zeppelin once said " Nobody's fault but mine"
@@fj5144bless your heart 😂😂😂😂
The flaw in your argument is that the _solution_ to the debt problem _is_ inflation. The high inflation of the 70's and 80's is how the boomers came to be so "wealthy" the houses that they bought with high-valued (relatively) 1960 and early 70's was paid for with dollars that became massively eroded by inflation and repaid years later with cheap dollars. In other words, the "crushing debt" you incurred when you were earning $100/week became inconsequential when your pay had increased to $1,000/week due to inflation.
@@pulaski1 reasonable levels of inflation over time can be managed. Runaway or rapid inflation cannot. It is a destroyer and it’s an extremely difficult genie to reign in once it’s out of the bottle.
@ironmikehallowween Agreed, but luckily we don't currently have wild, or "runaway" inflation. What has happened in the US over the past couple of years is mild compared to what has been happening in Turkey, and _extremely_ mild compared to what various countries in South America have experienced sporadically over the past 50 years.
Bought my last guitar at Gary’s. Went in looking for something with a Floyd Rose, they happened to have a frankenstrat put together by and equipped with Stonewall pickups. Never heard of a Sofia trem system, now I can’t imagine life without. Same with the pickups. Got exactly what I wanted and beyond. Many thanks Marc!
Glad to hear it's working out for you. Thanks again for buying.
The economy is fine if you're part of the ownership or white collar class - your accounts are doing fine. If you're part of the working class, it's quite difficult to afford the necessities of life. Rents are insane even for menial apartments - and home ownership is simply out of the question for most.
There's a lot of BS'ing around the metrics used to characterize the state of the economy. Unemployed is claimed to be down because they simply stop counting people who have given up looking for work. And these metrics don't capture the huge number of people who are under-employed.
As I'm currently laid off, thanks for the empathy and the information. I didn't take any offense from your previous video though.
The great thing is, like you said, you can get a great guitar for a couple hundred bucks that you'll be able to play for your lifetime.
Unfortunately, if someone is winning big like that, someone else is probably losing big on the other side.
God bless us all - everyone.
Also, to the people who complain about guitar companies pricing stuff too high, there’s one way to fix that real fast: don’t buy it. Gibson only charges astronomical prices because people pay it. Same with any other company. Now if they don’t sell any at that price, they’re faced with the option to either reduce the price to something more reasonable, or just not sell it - which is _not_ an option for them
You're right. Unfortunately too many goofballs with money are over buying
Then buy epiphone
@@beefnacos6258 💯💯💯
@@cornstar1253 I take it one step further. I only buy used. Used MIK Epiphones are just as good as Gibsons (at least mine are) and are 1/10th of the price 💪So I definitely agree
....and Gibson SUUUUUUUUUCKS now. Agree with you 100%, sir. PEOPLE PLEASE, STOP BUYING GIBSON GUITARS...the build quality is shameful for the prices being asked. By used or some other brand, if you can.
The reason people perceive the economy as bad is because of high food and energy prices. Many people are cutting back on non-necessary purchases like buying guitars, art and karate lessons etc. because of the perception of a bad economy.
And sadly both of those reasons are caused at least partially by corporate greed, during a time of record profits.
@@TomBaddleyCorporate greed? Most are operating on margins thinner than David Lee Roth's hairline. They have bills to pay too, they don't get a pass on inflation, they have to pay just like everybody else. Many won't be around in two years because of this, and it has nothing to do with greed.
Your videos are thoughtful and awesome. Thank you.
Also, I love all your hollow-body axes in the background. Really temping me :)
Thank you
Honestly, I think this applies to vintage instruments to some degree as well. I don't think there will be an overstock of them necessarily, but expect to see prices flatten out and decrease to an extent. The demographic that collects vintage instruments (has the money to) is aging. It seems like everyday now I see a post online about a vintage guitar that someone just inherited, and they want to know what it's worth. Often times they don't even play, or if they do, could use the money more than a vintage guitar.
Dude got me an 80s US strat for 1200 cash Australian dollars . He was crack dealer who was gonna sell it to a pawn shop to recoup what he was owed which was 1200 . When I picked it up to have a quick jam and he saw me play it . He said its yours man . STOKED
If you have the money buy what makes you happy. A room full of guitars won’t kill you.
People are quick to forget the 08 recession, when the economy was actually very bad
My wife panicked, and told me to take our money out of the stock market. We doubled down, bought cheap, and went long, and made money.
Thanks for your even-handed and thoughtful analysis. Don’t let the Trolls drag you down.
I don’t know enough about guitars to ever buy one from someone online. Most people just try to foist garbage onto unsuspecting buyers.
Right.never understood how people can fork over the cash for an instrument they've never played or even seen up close. Or heard!? It's insane
Greedverb sellers will list a guitar for 9 months and still won't lower the price.
Loving the channel. Sending great vibes from Scotland.
I'm keeping all mine. They're not hurting anything in their cases.
Say that when you've got no food.
If it came to that, he could trade his guitars for food…
@@sgt.gruhnn , and then when you're nice and fed, you'll have no guitar's to play? What then?
Don’t get to the no food part 😂
Regardless of a person's personal economy, people will always buy what they want to buy, go where they want to go, etc. But buying power has definitely decreased.
It would be interesting to note whether the used guitar market acts a forward or lagging indicator to the aggregate economy.
There is an old saying that if America sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold, and this is very
true at the moment.
The whole used guitar market is now flooded as the buyers who bought them during the pandemic
are now trying to sell them, but the demand is not there, hence values will only keep going down
for mass market guitars.
The higher end samples from the established brands will always find a buyer, but not anywhere near
the price you paid for them.
Great video Mark. Appreciate your views and telling it like you see it. Best wishes!
Inflation remains a problem. Why? Because even though the current inflation numbers are lower than the last couple of years, it's a cumulative thing. The current number is in addition to the sky high number from a year or two years ago.
FYI, the number indicative of the level of inflation does not include consumables like food/groceries and fuel.
Consumer price index is a better indicator of where the economy is headed. Also look at trends in credit card debt. It's scary.
looking forward to hearing more about what you have to say. I find this stuff interesting.
I am restoring vintage refrigerators over in Durham they are actually super high efficient and last forever.
😅
If people can’t see what’s coming with the economy then they be left holding the bag
You don't get it, Gary. Metrics and measurements told, right now, don't matter for squat. THE DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. When the price of a value meal has more than doubled; when groceries cost 40% more for less product; when fuel prices stay constantly high without relief; when some people are FORCED TO WORK FOUR PART-TIME JOBS- NO, metrics and measurements are bogus when you open yourself to the reality of the streets.
I'm glad that you aren't suffering and that your niche of the market is okay. You were part of the surviving 60% of small businesses after 2020! Good for you! A lot of other good people who used to own their own business weren't so lucky. But people aren't lying, and not buying, because they are playing Politics.
POLITICS PLAYED THE PEOPLE.
You're confusing profit maximization with the economy, these companies charge what they charge to satisfy shareholders, that's not the economy, that's shareholder capitalism. Republicans did this in the 80s by promoting maximizing shareholder value as the primary purpose of publicly traded companies, cutting the corporate tax rates and cutting the top individual tax rates from 70% down to 35% under Reagan. Politics didn't play the people, people played themselves by buying into "trickle down economics" which is total bullshit and has resulted in a massive wealth disparity while something like 40% of eligible voters DO NOT VOTE which favors Republicans. If everyone did their civic duty, we could turn this all around tomorrow but people are still sitting out elections in droves.
@@christopherpcline , exactly and thank you. Half of this country simply cannot be convinced to stop voting against their own interests.
Get a real job. Walmart doesn’t count. Trump really screwed us by printing all that money and giving away stimulus checks. Bums took those I just worked like a man is supposed to. Not fukin whine about everything. Grow a pair.
@@jeremysmetana8583that’s hard when one ideology sells bullshit and another will send you to prison for disagreeing with them. We are in serious trouble unless more people learn and embrace alternative political ideologies
Prices on almost everything have doubled and sometimes tripled since Covid. Pay has remained stagnant. This might not affect 30 percent of people but the other 70 percent feel it.
I was looking at PRS guitars from a local dealer like 6 months ago, darn expensive guitars. They've since had another price hike it seems. None of them are moving.
Every day it seems I see a new brand of guitar hit the market and the Chinese, Korean, and other low priced guitars just keep getting better and better. I'm actually kind of surprised that Fender and Gibson are still in business.
Thanks for making these videos.
Consumer debt is at an all time high. Real estate is in a bubble state. Housing costs are over the cliff. Sorry dude, the economy is a house of cards. When it comes down it will be global and epic.
Thanks Mark for being spot on with your macro and micro economic outlook. I wish you well in your guitar business adventure. Open a roth ira as well for backup!
Mark, i saw part one yesterday. Fine job, my friend. Keep on keeping on. Ps, greetings form Portsmouth, VA.
P-town in da house 🙌
Brilliant explanation over the two videos. You are a sincere guy who is playing it straight. I would vote for you as a politicians because you seem honest. If I lived in the States I would travel to your store to check out your stock and just to hang with you for a while. Keep up the good work.
Nice guitars man you seem like a nice guy god bless
Really hard to get young customers to brick and mortar stores anymore. Brands are so focused on immediate gratification, there’s little in the way of the good old experience you’d get walking into a store or a mall and just look at stuff, thinking ‘if I save enough, I’ll be able to by me that nice Strat’. Now it’s just one click for this, and free 6 months credit, and free delivery within a day or two.
Eventually though, there’ll be a correction of that as well: people will realize how wrong it is to buy so much crap and what’s wrong with the whole value chain.
Re guitar stores, I’ll say this: the sales guy should have tell me to buy that gold top for $2,000 back in 91 instead of my $1,300 ovation (still have it and fell back in love w it). And sales people at GC and Sweetwater aren’t musicians and rude af.
From a player's perspective - ROI on musical instruments is the enjoyment of playing them. Expecting anything more than that is a recipe for disappointment.
I agree, prices are ridiculous. Especially Epiphone raising their prices after they filled bankruptcy, even a lot of vintage guitars are overpriced
I’ve had some good success moving gear recently. All used non vintage..I guess it really depends on your pricing and the desirability of the item for sale. I have priced items accordingly based on recent sales. IMHO..I think that the Fender Custom Shop instruments will take a beating in the used market place since they were over priced to begin with.
With regard to the economy..7-8% interest rates for home buyers is not a good thing.
Home loans will be 12% by the end of the year. You think there is a used guitar apocalypse? Wait until you see what is about to happen in real estate {both commercial and residential}. Slaughterhouse.
@@papawx3 tell that to a liberal and they will spin it into a good thing the the present administration has done.
Imagine believing the government is being honest with its economic metrics 😂
Not the only source of information or metrics. Most evaluations are made by private parties.
When HB, Jet, Fazley and others offer strats or teles with roasted necks (worth $500+ elsewhere) for a retail price of $150+ you obviously do not need to consider the "main" brands. If you are a man and know how to use a file and a screwdriver you possess enough skill to do basic setup on a budget guitar. It would be crazy to think of it as an investment, when a quality instrument can be had for the price of a no frills family dinner. The big brands have themselves to blame for moving their production to China 30-40 yrs ago and letting people without respect for copyright to learn wood and guitar production. It would be obvious for a 7yr old to realize that a flood of copycats would follow especially with advent of CNC and other modern manufacturing technology. Thanks Gary for keeping us up to date.
You've got a great channel. Wish I lived closer to your store.😊😊😊
Reverbies include a great number of people who own vintage guitars as investors, collectors, and some legit sales cites. These guitars also have value to legit musicians, but seldom because they can use them to produce popular music or music that will draw crowds. They can nevertheless produce high quality vintage and restyled vintage music on them if they could afford them, which they seldom can. Plain and simple, maybe half to 95% of all quality made vintage guitars are owned and collected by individuals who can afford to invest or just collect them but can seldom do more than strum a few chords. IMO.
People have been saying the economy is bad since 1776 and theyll continue saying that for eternity.When the economy is great people still complain.
Live on a budget.Dont spend more than you earn.
Like your vids, I'm a novice guitarist from England I have 4 guitars 1 was a gift from a friend and q I brought new the other 2 I bought from a local used guitar shop they are quality I love my 4 guitars lol 👍🎸🎸🎸
Thank you for making this video and sharing your perspectives on all this. I want to add a broader point that sort of backs up what you are saying. Starting maybe 4 or 5 years ago there seems to be a glut of used gear on the market. It used to be easy for me to move used gear but it’s much slower now and there is a lot of competition for the same item. I suspect that consumer habits may have changed as well. I have a feeling guitarists buy a lot of stuff online (especially pedals) and sell them shortly after and this puts a lot of gear onto FB, CL and RV. Suppliers are producing at a high volume to keep up with this and pumping this stuff out. You mentioned that Reverb listings give the impression that items are worth more than they really are and that might be true. Interestingly Reverb openly says that a large amount of sales on their site are from LOW OFFERS built into their site. As a consumer this fact is mostly obscured unless you know how to look for it.
Mark,your comment about the other stores in your town closing really made me think. When I was just starting my journey in music the local music store was like a club where we went to see all the latest gear and new instruments. We were meant to feel like we were part of a big community. We aspired to get better and to work our way up to the next best guitar. We were encouraged by each other and by the store owners. Lifelong friendships were made, bands were formed, and our love of music was nurtured, all in that music store. Well, the internet killed that, didn’t it?
You could draw a direct parallel from a music store to a record store as well.
You can draw a direct parallel with everything in life because of the internet. A lot of people don’t go to the grocery store anymore. They use delivery services instead of going to restaurants. They work from home. Isolation is becoming a major problem for us as naturally social beings. The result is on the way. There’s going to be major emotional challenges in our society within 15 years or less if another means of social interaction doesn’t unfold. Young people walk out of their last college class and never end up having daily friendships again.
Hi this is Bill. I was in your store the other night, after hours. I was snooping around and was about to steal a bunch of guitars and then I read the price label; so cheap! I thought to my self, "self why steal these when I can come and buy them at this reduced price?". Anyways, I'll be in tomorrow and I'll pay for the broken glass too.
Yes Mark the economy is good, that is why I work as an automotive technician making 17 an hour and when I go on lunch I pay $17 for a sandwich, chip and drink. so they're essentially saying that 1 hour of my trade, tools, experience and bodys health is worth a sandwich, I think you need to rethink things soon and fast. Check inflation calculation especially against past wages and home prices, and just general commodities like gasoline and groceries.
Like he said, some people are having a hard time, but many are not.
By the way, you could make your own lunch.
When you buy lunch, you are paying for other people's time and the business's overhead.
Yes. A sandwich, chip, and drink is not worth $17. So it’s not fair to say that you’re getting paid a sandwich as an hourly rate. Make a lunch for less than $5. That’s the true cost of the goods. Otherwise you’re paying for luxury of having a servant make your food for you. And if you can’t afford servants, nobody is feeling bad for you.
Sounds like you are underpaid. McDonalds in CA pays more than you make...let that sink in.
The economy is actually really good by all metrics.
People do not sell their "extra" guitars unless they need the money! Pure and simple. They don't sell them because of a fiction of their imagination. Its not a perception that the dollar is not worth the same amount as it was 4 years ago. Its worth about 20 % less, that is a fact. So when the cost of food, energy, taxes and the like go up, people sell their extra stuff so they can buy what they need. I agree the market is flooded but it is not because people are tricked into thinking the economy is bad, its because they need the money or many people bought guitars during the pandemic and never really learned to play and they want to get rid of their gear. This is much more likely.
Great content and very sensible response to the criticism from the video. I personally loved the previous vid as a slice of life from a unique set of experiences
So true you said..." for a few hundred dollars you can find a (high quality built) guitar for life.
I visit the pawn shops and judge the guitars by its playability,l intonation ,action, I don't bother plugging it in..about every six months i find an amazing cheap instrument, a few times a decade Ill find a cheap holy grail classical instrument
Thank you Mark for putting out good information for us to chew on!!! 🇺🇸🎸‼️
What is the story with that Jaguar on the wall?
Hello, Mr. Gary, like the video and just like the other one you made both make a lot of sense, but do you sell all alone? Would love to see some of your have a website. One could go to browse or possibly purchase
Where I live, Portland Oregon, people want what they paid for their used gear. It’s nuts.
I used to go to trade up music, if you kept your receipt you would get full credit towards a different guitar. Weird huh?
I noticed people think they should get half of the newest versions value for their factory guitar center guitar. Just because it’s 30 years old doesn’t mean it’s worth more. Mind blowing that people think their assembly line guitars should increase in value.
There's more guitars than people
Thanks for the videos. I have a couple guitars for sale on Reverb, vintage and non-vintage. My experience over the last couple years is that almost everyone is low balling and guitars aren't moving - the ones I'm trying to sell and the ones on my watchlist.
If guitars aren't moving then the prices being offered aren't low. It's not like there's some secret cache of buyers that are willing to pay more, but simply aren't bothering to. Sellers are just refusing to accept the reality that their guitars are worth exactly what buyers are willing to pay for them, not what they want to sell them for.
Well said, I am personally a victim of this via a Novo Solus, I bought into the pandemic hype and had to have one. I know I won't get all my money back, unless I wait on it. I am completely satisfied with the guitar and intend to keep it for as long as I can. I have only sold one guitar and that was after the 2008 boom and bust. It was a '68 Gibson LG-1 lost $50 on that one because I couldn't deal with the 9/916th neck. Now I wish I still had it as it is worth three times what I first paid for it. Live and learn. I would love to hear your take on the Pedal market.
You read the comments on social media and then you realize how stupid society really IS.
just social society
By default anyone that comments on social media is pretty stupid. Me included. But yes some people are definitely abysmally stupid😅
Thanks for the info! I have been to your store many years ago & even bought a used acoustic there. Unfortunately, due to age related health issues I now own a small collection of acoustic guitars I can no longer play & would like to sell them. Based on your thoughts of impending "guitarmaggedon" it seems I am stuck.....would you advise a person in my shoes to wait it out or.....what exactly?
Old age doesn't mean you can't play. It just means your style must change. Go slide! Sell what you have or give it away, no shame in that.
We've seen the same thing in the 2nd hand marketplace here too, I'm a bass player mainly, but I also own a drum kit... and post Pandemic I've managed to put together my drum kit with basically THE group of high quality cymbals (which I have NEVER owned before) I've wanted for it, for a fraction of the price... every cymbal was about half-price or a bit lower... best buy was a 21" Zildjian Organic Ride, which would retail go for about $750-800 AU, and 2nd hand similar things usually go for about $400-600 AU depending on condition: I got it for $250. It's a specialty cymbal, and not what common rock players want... so they just sit there online for ages (I think I bookmarked it and it was there for like 6weeks, then I just offered low, he sold it to me).
I have seen similar things in all used market musical instruments here in Melbourne Australia! (hello from Australia!)... most people are getting rid of there extra stuff, and there is glut of instruments of all types on the 2nd hand market, and considering the lack of uptake of playing musical instruments, and the what a precarious career choice it is (as proven by the Pandemic, Melbourne had 2 years of lockdowns on and off), the 2nd hand instrument market is only going to get worse and lower priced I'd say.. (in the non-vintage stuff, as you say). So much so as you say, I AM also looking to buy a guitar and make an amp for it, as prices are so low, and opportunities come up atm...
Look at you and your facts! This is social media no one wants or believes facts! 😁 I guess this means it is a buyer's market! Since I am the king of cheap guitars I'm gonna have to keep my eyes peeled for something goofy and cool to add to my collection! 🎸😊
great video!
Many of my friends who claim the economy is bad keep buying instruments, taking trips, driving new cars. Go figure.
When's the last time you went to the damn grocery store?
Godd videos, Mark; however, I'm in Canada and looking for non-vintage guitars on Ebay is ridiculous, as there are very few available, in any price range; one problem is shipping cost which has gone way up in Canada (and even higher in US); Reverb also charge a lot for shipping, then they up the price to cover commissions, and here in Quebec it's 15% more for sales tax on top of that; as far as Fender new guitars from any retail store up here, (and Squier), their standard items are out there, but what people really want are always on back-order somehow, and you can never get a definite delivery date. Since I can't afford vintage guitars, and I don't want to pre-order without a set delivery date, I tend to give up on everything; I was looking for a Squier Starcaster Classic Vibe guitar, which were reissued 4 years ago and were so popular, that you can't get them anymore, and they are discontinued again!
My job is a good indicator for the economy… yes, things are bad out there for a lot of people.
Thank you !
Great video, Mark. Good solid info.
I just sold 3 used guitars on facebook in my area and a fender amp within a month for more than I paid. Hoping to sell 3 more to make room on my guitar rack. But I do agree it's comming because I found and bought a open box american fender pro 2 for $1,050.00 originally $1800
I love awsome deals if I could only find a steal on a gibson les paul classic.
Love all your videos, keep it up.
There are two prices - the buying price and the selling price. With few exceptions the selling price once left a shop is going to be atleast 25% below the buying price which is the tax element of the product. Yes in a booming market with demand there are people that will pay up when things start to stall the everything plunges because the free flow capital has been sucked out of people.
Here is an example of image, Rolex are regarded as an exclusive brand made in small numbers with high end Swiss workers. Reality - Rolex make over a million watches a year every year - are they made by skilled Swiss workers ? Nope they are made by French workers who cross the border every day because the taxes in France are half those of Switzerland plus the cost of living is about half too.
Now put that into the guitar market with Fender and Gibson, their production numbers are huge not the same level as the 50s 60s or even 70s or 80s. More guitars are made by one manufacturer in a week than were made in the whole of the 50s. Scarcity makes value - image makes value in bull markets - bear markets show the delusion that existed in the bull market.
The entire market was squeezed by the inability for companies to produce. People went from first to second choice on guitars, to third and eventually to just "give me any ****ing guitar I can actually buy and have delivered this month". I dont think the market will do another 2008, but it appears in all collecting hobbies there is going to be a noticeable correction. In fact, things will likely overshoot equilibrium the other way for a bit before stabilizing again, assuming we don't have any other major events. It remains to be seen if the looming boomer retirements/deaths, which are simply an inevitable consequence of the passage of time, also start putting downward pressure on prices. We're about to experience a massive shift of wealth and a lot of guitars are gonna get sold by kids of players which is normal and fine by itself, but there's a LOT more boomers than any other generation so... not sure the money or interest is there to soak up the stuff coming onto the market.
Love to hear this perspective. We hear way too much from the usual guitar influencer who's just trying to make money on affiliate links. It's good to hear from the POV of a shop owner.
Everything goes in a cycle.🎸🎸🎸
A great 'Part 2' on the current state of the Guitar Economy... It mirrors my current experience. I'm a lefty who buys and sells fairly regularly on Reverb, and things are very slow right now. Stuff that isn't popular/high demand/rare is simply sitting there. You're right: the market is flooded with shutdown purchases that are looking for new homes. Only no one has the time to play, nor can they afford a new instrument (or the one they bought with stimulus money!).
All the stimulus "free" money during the shutdown (I refuse to call it a pandemic; it wasn't) sold a LOT of guitars; I sold 5 guitars in a month during that time frame. At least two of those guitars were impossible to sell before; they moved at around 15%-20% more than I could have previously hoped because of the easy money people were getting. Now, of course, we're paying for that "boom".
If you're not on unemployment , you are not counted in the employee numbers or the unemployment numbers
Thankyou Mark,nicely put
I've bought my expensive Music Man Cutlass online and I am totally satisfied. But knowing what I know now I would never buy such pricey instrument online again. Things get very different when playing and hearing them, and there are so many great valuable surprises in the physical guitar stores. Sure, we can return it but.... Sometimes affordable stuff is great and vice versa. Plus, it is very reasuring to know that I have done my research and comparissons and have the best instrument for my money.
Good. I've cleared out some space in my office for some deals when they come up.
Is that a blonde refin fender jag behind you?
Here are the things I am seeing, a mid end type guitar (Schecter, Ibanez, and my current interest Hagstrom) seems to be able to be had above $450 at some times, and usually never above $1000 even for their most expensive models. However, the difference between their new and used/b stock prices is usually around $200-300. Gibson and Fender actually are more likely to have differences in new vs. used price because of initial price tag vs. market demand. In my head I should be able to buy a used Gibson Les Paul Studio for somewhere between $900-$1500… based on prices of the last few years and which model it actually is (this can’t be understated, not all guitars are created equally). However, that could easily sneak back down to $650-$1200 if the demand needs of players changes. But, sometimes you pay based on availability, versus the actual value. I encourage anyone wanting one of the new “overpriced” Epiphones to give those a shot, they are pretty cool, if you don’t want to wait for used to go down.
There is also the fact that a lot of people who picked up playing guitar during covid only know the covid era market and now want to sell their guitars because they do not want to continue playing.