Noticing this on Craigslist. Tons of gear, all the same things have been listed for over a year, and every seller is saying, "I know what I have, no lowball offers!"
Honestly, when there are these new low cost brands making guitars as good or better than the quality of the Squires and Epiphones of the world, those used guitars will sit on FB MP and eBay and Reverb til they rot.
I ordered a firefly strat for 189 bucks it had a bone nut,locking tuners, nice canada roasted flame maple neck. I put lollars in it, a new jack. It's one of the best guitars i own @slackers_unite
@stahliwood8755 I bought the IYV-350 for under $200. That thing plays, sounds, and looks incredible. I'm not touring the world so I can't see paying a couple of grand for a guitar that I play a few times a week.
I completely agree with you. Your video is right on. I check used prices on gear all the time and the prices that people are asking for their beat up (=used like new in their eyes) is ridiculous! I see it all the time. People are so outta touch with their asking price. I see this all the time, especially with old music technology. Like drum machines, 4 tracks, old Roland gear. They’re asking, most times, what you could buy it for new back in the day. They slap the word ‘vintage’ on it and expect full asking price. Again, so out of touch with reality. But that seems par for the course these daze!
It must change by location cause in my area guitars are stupid stupid cheap, all over marketplace and they sit for 6 months with no buyers at near giveaways. I just bought a super clean mid 90s Ibanez EX350 for $80 and a couple days later picked up 3 8inch practice amps all 3 for $30.
It's not just the sellers. It's the buyers too and not just with instruments but with everything; People don't want to pay a fair price either. Everything has to be given away for virtually nothing. Even with cheapest of items. Try to sell something for 5 euros and no one is interested. Give it away for free and someone is at your door within 30minutes to pick it up.
That's because of eBay and reverb and such. I swear. It's got all the instrument markets jacked. Everyone say well this is what they're selling for. most times they're not smart enough to toggle the filter to already sold items and what they're looking at is asking prices
I've picked up a few boutique guitars for major discounts on Reverb in recent months. If you know what you want and track the market, the deals are out there as people get desperate or fed up and just want to sell -- even really, really nice guitars that would be $1,500 more otherwise. I did have trouble selling one of my guitars on Reverb and ended up off-loading it to Guitar Center to avoid all the Reverb fees. So, yes, buyer's market, not a seller's.
Totally. I'm not even in the market for a guitar. I barely play my 3 electrics. But when I go on Facebook Marketplace it's like "wow, cheap". Part of it is that I'm older, have cash to spare. I'll admit that. The prices really have dropped, though. This guy dropped the price on this custom Jazzmaster (early 80's body) that has been on Marketplace for what seems like well over a year. If he lowers it again I might buy it. It's the same for bikes. I'm shocked people aren't buying some of the bikes I see. Perect bombproof commuters/touring rigs. The only reason I haven't bought them is they aren't local.
Thank you for sharing your insights and observations. The guitar market has so many angles that hearing from an experienced shop owner is very interesting. You're serving so many customer types! From my naive perspective I wonder what the big inventory boost of entry-level guitars from 2020-2023 will do. I am part of the population that this commentary speaks to. I bought a new Gretsch Jim Dandy from a local independent shop, for my daughter(mostly me). And then 3 months later bought a used guitar from GuitarCenter. I'm enjoying the used guitar and making music. - reminding myself I will stop at local shop first for immediate needs and talk to them as I hopefully grow in my playing. Thank you again.
Never sell to a shop unless you are ok with losing your money. They have to make money, and they have to sit on it. I've never not regretted selling a guitar or any piece of gear to a shop. I think most people need to consider the business owner. Good video! Thanks for the perspective.
Excellent video. The car price metaphor is perfect. I have seen Squier basic strats asking on sites for 20-30% more than Amazon prices! Good luck with that. I think the Boomers down sizing, joint pain etc. is going to dump thousands of used guitars on the market now and over the next few years. Leading to saturation and over stocking of the guitar market. Sellers have got to face marketplace realities.
I'm seeing arthritic boomers offering their early-70s Martins for $1-2K over current values. They need to come to terms with reality. No one seems to want 12-strings.
There was a Gibson 76 reissue explorer sitting at my local pawnshop for the last 5 years. One day I finally decided to play it and it was a player! I had to have it. They were asking $1500 which I felt like was a pretty good deal, but I didn’t have the cash… so I traded an Epiphone sg custom+ $600 cash for it! Came with the original hsc too
Thank you for posting this video. It was a nice dose of reality for me and a nice benchmark for what today´s reality is. I watched this video at 10:30am and by 1:20pm I had 4 guitars sell on reverb. This is very important information for "Reverbers". I guess you have to determine where you are seeking value, through holding gear under a prospect of a better future or liquidating lower and reinvesting in a rising commodity.
Excellent topic, Gary. valuable information you won’t learn out of a book or in class. Asking price and selling price are important to understand and comprehend. Know when to hold em and know when to fold em.
Hi from Spain, I enjoyed your presentation and honesty. I don't know the market In the US but in Europe there are so many great new guitars from numerous manufacturers available for very low prices....but there are a lot less buyers. As a result even decent quality second hand guitars are worth less than 50% of what people paid, you are correct with your observation relative to a second hand car. People should only buy any musical instrument to play and enjoy it, if you want to buy to invest, make sure you know your subject very well, it's just like buying an antique, high risk!!! Kind regards,John.
I love your frank, plain way of saying what’s what, not claiming to be anything more or less than the simple truth as you see it in your store. I thank you, man! Keep on doing exactly what you are doing.
I've been a multi instrumentalist since 1988 (drums, bass, guitar & piano). Also did sound for years so I've bought and sold a TON of gear over the years. I can tell you definitively that the resale market is completely oversaturated at every level. A glut of decent quality gear is flooding the market in all channels (ebay, reverb, local vendors, Facebook marketplace, etc...). Too few buyers, too much inventory and shift away from guitar driven music over the last 20+ years. However the key problem is that kids today simply aren't taking up the hobby of music like they used to anymore. How can a difficult-to-learn guitar compete with cell phone apps and video games designed to offer kids a constant "dopamine reward" for simply using them? No chance whatsoever.
Pre pandemic I had 2 electrics and 1 acoustic and a old line 6 spider 75 watt combo amp. Post pandemic I have 15 electrics, 1 bass and the same acoustic. Got a 03 Mesa single rectifier and a Mesa 2x12 cab, a Marshall DSL20 head with a Marshall 2x12 vertical cab and a Orange 1x15 bass amp. Trying to sell some gear but pawn shops are offering laughable prices, Guitar Center too. Been listing stuff on Facebook market with no offers, just people wanting to trade.
Thanks so much for this video. I am a music therapist and play my guitars a lot. I’m not in the market to collect guitars but guitars that inspire me to play them. I’m in the market to add a Tele and want one that I really love. I was considering buying a new one in the color I really want but this video and other feedback tells me that instead of buying an American Pro 2 I should look used as there are a ton in the 800-1100 range that are perfect for my needs. A potential glut in the used market tells me I can get both a good deal and a great guitar without having to buy new and go for the latest thing Fender is putting out.
Went down the vintage rabbit hole about 6 years ago. Pretty much moved a lot of savings into vintage guitars. Figured I’d rather enjoy the money than just look at a number going up and down. Seems to have been a good decision. Got a minor headstock repair 55 LP custom for 8000 in 2020 - a 1960 355 for 14k in 2019, and a refin 52 Tele for 13k
Musicians should buy what they like to play. And keep in mind that a musical instrument's new value versus used will usually be worth about 50% to the next person, just as a reality check and aside from a rare event as the Pandemic.
These items are consumables. You buy them, they wear and they depreciate just like a car. People have unrealistic expectations about the value of these things when it comes to selling them.
My local shop, last time I stopped, has been dealing with this situation for the past year or so. People wanting to trade up are getting their expectations dashed a bit, being lucky to get $100 for their starter guitar. It's a buyers market online, however. Online, search what you want in your price range within your preferred area, then be patient. Thousands of used guitars online. It's a GLUT. Many of them, especially newer Asian stuff, play great out of the box. Additionally, I bought an off brand telly, that plays well as is, new for $120 delivered. This situation is going to be around for a while.
I have a couple of guitars that are more than I need. But when I see what they’re actually selling for, not what they’re being listed at, it doesn’t make any sense for me to let them go. For instance, a Fender American Pro II that lists for 1700 brand new are selling for 800-900 dollars used. I don’t need the money that bad to lose almost a thousand dollars on a perfectly good guitar.
I was surprised to see the American stuff even lower than that, making the MiM and Squier almost worthless.The only thing that holds value is custom shop and vintage,- period.
wow where are you seeing American Pro II Strats for 800 or 900? I was just in GC in Arlington Texas and they are discounting brand new AM Pro II strats to 1299. I am fighting the urge to buy one, but if they are out there somewhere in the world for 400 or more less please tell me where.
Having played for thirty years, repairing guitars for 25 and building amps for 20, as well as a decade as a car salesman*, I knew as soon as prices started getting ridiculous that this would ultimately happen, so I refused to buy anything until it did. It sucks if you want to sell something, but great if you're buying. *Selling cars will teach you just how little people really understand about what it means when we talk about how much something is "worth." I'd get people looking to trade in a car that's only a couple years old and say "trade-in value is $20,000, that's what I want." I could then walk them to a line of cars JUST like what they're trying to trade in that are all $14000-15000 and point out that if I'm selling them for $15000, there's no way that I can give them $20,000? Half of them will just refuse to accept it, at least if you're the first dealer they've been too. If you get them after they've heard the same thing from other dealers, you might be able to deal with them. Also: sentiment only adds value to the person who's selling it, the buyer could care less. Oh, and that repair you paid for doesn't add value to your guitars, matter of fact if it means repairs to the wood or things like refrets will probably make it worth less. I will say that this also gives me insight into just how deep the manufacturers like Fender, PRS, Line 6 and others are tucking it up their retail dealer's asses with these sales with all these price slashing sales on their new equipment. I don't know how much of those discounts are eaten by the retailers, but it's certainly f'cking them when it comes to their used stock.
The same thing, in all similar businesses. The public seems to believe something is worth what they were prepared to pay. No, something is only worth what someone else is prepared to pay. They also seem to think that dealers make a living from not making a profit after laying out hard cash, storing and insuring it for what could be years, in the hope of selling it to some other sucker. I work in the gold business so at least we can scrap stock that is not moving, get our money back, and even make a small profit on the metal content. A guitar on the other hand is at best firewood if no one wants it. The entire world has to stop making and buying so much stuff. How many guitars does the world need?
I think the trend is that less people are playing guitar now than in 2020. And I think that trend will only continue as kids are less apt these days to learn an instrument. What does that mean for guitar players? Well, the prices will inevitably go down at least for a while.
we are stuck in the era of "if I hold out for a long while, I am destined to get the price of what it was when it was mint condition". Even I buy into this way of thinking as I acknowledge how ridiculous it is on the buying side of things. However, in order to make stuff sell, we have to acknowledge the sunk cost fallacy, and that sometimes you're not gonna make money on things, but that the experience you had with the gear is what made you break even
Do you agree that the vintage vs. new gap has widened? After being out of the market for 25 years, I recently bought an electric. What I noticed is that due to manufacturing efficiencies in Asian production, the new guitars are roughly the same price as they were 25 years ago (much like other electronics, clothes, shoes, etc.) whereas vintage guitars have generally risen with inflation. It seems to have created a widening gap in the market.
Vintage guitars have risen in price but only because people are willing to buy them at such prices. You can still get no name Vintage Japanese guitars for dirt cheap. The advent of Reverb and online marketplaces makes it easier for people to shop vintage stuff. There’s definitely a huge “I googled this guitar and saw a reverb listing for $800, so that’s what I’ll sell it for,” mentality… probably because people are strapped for cash… they’re less willing to give someone a good deal.
I think that like any commodity in any market, if you buy "right" you generally can get your money out of guitars and can make money some of the time. Problem is, like any market, if you buy at the top, it is hard to make money, unless you maybe invest for the long term. If you buy correctly and hold over time you will be OK. I have actually make alot of money holding things like Fender Tube amps over time. However, I do see the guitars coming out of the closets and the guitars coming out of the closets is to me a leading indicator of recession. Lets see, looks like a buyers market coming..........
Lots of great points on buying or selling guitars. Especially inflated prices, or vendors' unreal valuations of gear, far beyond what people will pay for said item.
Guitars, along with most musical instruments, are horrible investments. There are the rare few, however, that are the exceptions. I collect guitars; mainly ones that cost $5k plus with some exceptional feature(s). I plan on holding them for up to 20+ years and hope to get my returns from them. I don’t buy junk and never boutique. I haven’t lost money yet, knock on wood. However a huge part of recovering your investment is purchasing at the right price in the first place, which many seem to overlook. A guitar is a sexy purchase to a player, I get it. I don’t buy for less than 20-25% off MSRP - period if I am acquiring for investment potential. Negotiate! That helps you start with a safety buffer in terms of investment - or at least breaking even, but requires a bit more effort and a willingness to walk away. Being in a true position of power means having the ability to say, “no.” Either buy it for love or investment. Just remember that investment requires more strategic thinking - and love, well you likely know, is almost always emotional rather than rational. Confusing the two is where the pain begins!
I sold about half of my guitar collection 2-3 years ago keeping mostly the vintage stuff and Gibson Les Pauls. I have the same problem I would normally buy more when the price dips but the stuff I see for sale is all overpriced, I see the same not selling gear on my local Facebook and Craigslist every day. No need to sell my stuff at a discount and I have two Marshall stacks and yes nobody wants them so I will just keep using them. I tell you one thing for sure I am not buying any gear new or used right now. Great video I agree with everything you say here.
I go state wide hunting down pawn shops. I have found that the shops are full of guitars and amps. One shop told me that they had 150 on display and three storage units filled with used guitars.
After a lot of years of owning and selling guitars, (because I just wanted to try them out), I started inly buting guitars that were unique. My Tele is a custom wired Nashville, my Strat guitar is a G&L Skyhawk, my Jazzmaster has a custom artisan paint job and special wound pick ups. My only near to conventional guitar is my Jon Scofield signature by Ibanez. These aren't ordinary guitars and they all have a niche. Even with that, I would expect to wait six months for a buyer on anything I listed in today's market. So the lesson is that this is a buyers market, even so, don't buy what you dont love.
I was just thinking about this. I bought a new Mexican Strat in 2004 for $250. Today, I can’t find a decent used one for less than $700. It’s still a Mexican Strat. It’s not a $700 guitar to me and never will be. But I guess the inflation aspect gives people of different ages some different perspectives. But the idea that a used budget guitar will increase in value is ludicrous, at least for instruments made any later than the late 80s.
This is an excellent video, thanks for your clear explanation.
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I’ve owned over 50 guitars in my lifetime so far and I got to use and enjoy all of them. Everything from Gibson Sunburst J45 Vine, to the cheapest Squier Telecaster. With that being said, I also made money on every single one except for my very first new guitar, that was a Gibson Les Paul Studio in Ruby Red from the early 80s. That’s when I was young and dumb. You can make money and get to use any guitar on the planet you want if you know what you’re doing. I personally never buy new these days unless I get a deal alert and then I may flip it quickly or if I like it, keep it a while and still make a profit later on. Small amps are the best as you don’t need to be blasted away to achieve break up. I recently scored a 2000 USA Telecaster Deluxe Sunburst in absolutely like new condition for under $1000 I’ve had this guitar before I regretted selling it. I know for a fact that I could sell it for $1500 but this one is a keeper. Folks ! Make offers online even if the sellers aren’t accepting offers, you would be surprised. Put guitars in your save search options online and be patient. Never buy from a guitar store unless you know exactly what you want and you’re happy with the price. I’m currently waiting on a deal for a mid 1960s Gretsch. Patience Grasshopper.
What you're saying makes sense and not surprising. The last thing you said is interesting though -- true vintage gear prices are holding steady it's the stuff from the last 15 years. Are you seeing a difference in values for premium stuff from the last 15 years? Say guitars in the 3K plus price point? Are they holding value or dip as well?
And you add to that the hugely improved quality of Indonesian and Chinese guitars, the drive to buy an American made guitar is diminished. I play an 80 Gibson ES-347/79 ES-335TD that I bought when they were sub 2000 (the latter was sub 1400). I wanted to get something that fit with those guitars but was a bit different. I did a bunch of research and there was so much information about how good the Yamaha Revstar Standard is. Why go out and buy someone's $1200 Epiphone off of Craigslist when I can get a used Revstar for less than 700 on Reverb or Ebay. I missed the covid era gear buy up because my rig hasn't changed in 8 years. But I have seen this great divide between overpriced name brands and underpriced well built Asian guitars.
Buyers are staying away for now because they dont know if prices will go down at a later time. Theres a guitar I was looking at used, it seems like an alright price. Im not going for it because if I end up not gelling with it, I dont think ill be able to move it without getting soaked.
Every corporation that needs growth doesn't understand that a flood aka pandemic, is not growth that has to be built on. I'm 31 years in the transportation industry, and now that we're back to where we were before pandemic, corporate is acting like our volume is low.😂
6:13 The prices on 100W heads (new and used) has to give at some point. What's a new JVM410h, $3,700 in the States? There are those of us who still want them, but we're fewer and fewer as time goes on.
"No, that's not what they are going for, it's what they are asking". Good advice. I just picked up a steal on an amp for $500. On Reverb, they are asking $1300 - $2500. Did I get a good deal, Yes! Can I flip it for $2500? Probably not. But I didn't buy it to flip. I bought it to keep for the rest of my life!
Obviously other then buying a more rare Vintage guitar that is hard to find and harder to find in good condition. That is where I believe thats its ok to spend some hard earned cash. What I cant stand is the big name brands selling there gear for top top dollar. The Market is flooded these days with some very high quality guitars at affordable prices. Im very thankful for that. Some of these brands really rival the big name and at a fraction of the price. Im very happy with the Firefly brand,Harley Benton, IYV..I had just recently bought a Squire bullet Sparkle red Limited edition telecaster. Kinda bought the bullet tele cause this was the last year of production of the bullets before the switch to the Sonic series. The IYV,Harley Benton and firefly came set up really well and great fret work. The squier needed a some fret work as it had some sharp fret ends and some fret sprout. No big deal as I took care of that. So would have to say squier stepped it up as they had to because of all the newer budget priced guitars on the market. Kinda recently I was at my local guitar center and checked out a frw guitars. One was a $500-$600 Epiphone Les Paul and another was $2500 Gibson Les Paul then a Epiphone 335. My IYV LP-300 Les Paul copies fret work is better lol. That being said Gibson and Fender dont have to worry though as people still want the original. It would be nice if they adjusted there prices to put them in the hands of more guitarist. One big thing that I see in the not so distant future of the guitar market is lower prices. Is generation issue. Im 45 yrs old. I believe we are the problem for the high prices and the Vintage market and relicing. We have our guitar gods and like to mimic there sounds and also love owning the gear of favorite guitar idols. I think the newer generations really could care less.
It makes total sense for a number of reasons. All the reasons he laid out, but also, think about it. Nobody wants the large amps anymore because most young people can't afford places to live where they can fit them, much less use them. A Marshall stack is not suited for apartment living. And even if the player had a place to store/play the amp, their just aren't the same volume of gigs as there were in the 70s and 80s. And even if you can find a gig, how many places can you bring your big amp to and use it? The market is oversaturated with guitars and amps. And now you have Amazon and Temu (don't buy from them) selling import guitars for dirt cheap. Of course the vintage guitars will always sell because they are being bought by boomers like myself who can afford them, even if it's just for snob appeal. Not that I AM buying any vintage guitars, but that is who is buying them. It's not the kid working at Subway or Best Buy. Add in the modding trend, where people bought Squiers for $200 and then put another $350 into them in terms of pickups, tuning machines and new switches/wiring. They try to sell that guitar and they would be lucky to get $200 for it. They sure aren't getting $550. If you try to trade something in nowadays, it's like jewelry. You know, you buy the engagement ring for $2,500 and the jeweler tells you, "I'm losing money on it at this price." You bring the ring back to the jeweler the next day because your girl said NO and the jeweler tells you, "I can't give you more than $1,800 for this ring -- and I'm losing money on it at that."
I think the only factor you didn't mention, which bodes badly for prices longer term, is the boom also created an influx of middle-men traders. At least two new guitar traders opened in my smallish city, and it seemed every week there was a new ebay account with a fancy logo claiming "they source the best guitars" (when they just sell anything they can get and it's just some guy out of his flat). These guys needed to make a profit, so prices crept up and up. Now these guys have made a fair bit of money, but are unlikely to be able to sit on a stock of 30 guitars that's not moving, when they decide to liquidate and sell up, those long term listings holding the market value up disappear and everything comes down.
Thank you for posting, I was wondering if something like this was happening I'm going to hold off for a couple months, this is just late The bike market during the pandemic bikes are really cheap now people bought a ton of them and now want to get rid of them
Yet another reason why I strictly play and collect vintage guitars. People whine about the prices, but those are the same people buying new gear and whining about depreciation and the “gear apocalypse.” Vintage guitars typically hold their value and in many cases go up (sometimes significantly). Just the facts of it.
Lots of really low priced NEW guitars from all over the world. CNC’s and experience and competition means lots of really GOOD guitars for sale with upgraded options so used stuff with yesterday’s colors and features will not sell for premium prices anymore. The guitar consumer has real quality available for way less than ever before. This affects mid priced items more than high end. Playing is more fun for more people than ever before. This includes amps as well, New captures and modelers are better than ever, affecting mid priced amps more than collectibles. It happens enjoy what you like and don’t worry about it, ok?
I want a used guitar so I can learn to play. Acoustic would make sense to learn. Where do I start to look? I don't want to get a bad deal. I learned trumpet in school band.
Also guys remember.....pawn shops now have the internet to look up the value and with that in mind, pawn shops will give you 1/3 the value and mark up for them to make a living also.
People don't realize that every hook on the wall where a guitar can hang needs to generate a certain amount of cash per month (divided by all the other hooks on the wall) in order to pay the rent for the space and make it economically feasible for them to be able to come in and get to hold and play an instrument in their hands before deciding whether to purchase it and then receive setup and maintenance support after the fact. That equation, coupled with the fact that people are cheap asses these days, is why sales are moving online-direct for most manufacturers and now you just look at a picture on your phone and get the guitar that comes in the mail.
Im baffled by this online in the box purchasing. I mean really? How are you going to know you want a guitar without hearing it and feeling the neck? The weight, the contour? Every guitar is unique.
As an acoustic guitar fellow I have seen a ton of guitars for sale but quality stuff like Martin D28s are still holding their value. I really want a D40 they are still a pile of dough.
The increase in price of new gear since the pandemic has also got too high. Gibson custom shop guitars are now just too high in price and you see them sitting in stock for a long time. But I notice that the second hand price of custom shop stuff has dropped significantly.
There's been talk of the guitar market being flooded. Is this true? If so, it's probably because of the Covid 19 epidemic. That's when I decided to pick up guitar playing again after a 10+ year hiatus. Big companies are going through changes, ownerships, bankruptcy, you name it !!! What's going on? Any thoughts?
There is another aspect of this that we are all treating like a walk past a graveyard spent whistling; the guitar ''gods'' are dying off fast. Eddie is gone, Jeff is gone, Chet is gone, and how long will Jimmy (Page) and Steve (Howe) last? The people who inspired the Boomers to spend large chunks of their retirements on guitars are no longer influencing large chunks of the youth to spend 100,000 hours of their life chasing the dream of being the next guitar star, or to even busk on a street corner as a certain fellow did long ago, for The Greatest Generation, whose moniker was ''This machine kills fascists''. It's basically Tim Henson influencing 14 year olds to buy an Indonesian made Ibanez and plug it into their computer or iPhone. In 10 years from today there will be a glut of classic guitars hit the market, placed there by the Gen X children of the last Boomers to die who filled their man caves with ''collectable'' guitars that they paid crazy money for, which no one will be willing to pay even 25% of what they will be asking. Gen X folks, like myself, who got in on the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s run of ''be a rock star'' won't be enough to float such a market. Most of us missed out on that $50-75,000 a year job that could afford us such excesses, we are barely able to keep up with taxes, insurance, and food, a few of us bought houses and have 2 cars, but that's it, nothing anywhere near what our parents had. Vacations? Nope. 2nd homes? Nope. Extra room for guitars that we spent $500,000 on? LOL, ummm, no. Kids today (I'm talking about 20 somethings) look back at the last century and become angry, the jobs are gone and the ''education'' offered at universities is a 100% racket backed sleight of hand op. That just makes the concept of ever becoming a guitar ''god'' or rock star seem like the dumbest thing ever. And, I can't blame them, a big part of me agrees with them. Are kids still finding out about Led Zeppelin? Sure, they are inundated now with reaction videos that praise classic rock but that's not enough to sway them from playing trumpet to guitar. The guitar is no longer the stand out instrument of rebellion that it once was. For guitar sales, that's the nail in the coffin because it will lead to that old refrain of ''Rock is dead'' being true. These TH-cam channels of shredders and guitar accessory promotions, over the next 10 years they are going away as well. The algorithms will, with the decrease in money movement, begin to push those folks under. That's a certainty. They will be replaced with other subjects no different than the ocean filling up a hole that was punched into it.
A large part of the new guitar apocalypse is due to the latest DIY home built guitar sector. There's some stunning kit guitars out there but they are flooding the market.
I miss moulded cases supplied by the manufacturer. I need a moulded case for my Rickenbacker 481, and I don’t want to pay the same price as I did for the guitar to get it. 😄
With the Quality of P.A systems now and all the great multiple channel amps and pedals nobody really needs a full stack or half stack . Although using low wattage amps paired with 4 by 12s is a geat sound . To me small amps sound their best through bigger cabs especially small low watt combo amps . 2 by 12 cabs seem to be much more popular now along with oversized 1 by 12s The long and Mqcuade music shop in my home city almost never gets in 4 by 12s and when they do they take a very long time to sell . They are basically an order only item but they sell alot of 1 by 12s and especually 2 by 12s . They also rarely stock 100 watt amps anymore and bring in as many 50 watters either . The vast majority of the Amps are 40 watts and under with by far the most common range being 5 watts to 20 watts . The store moves alot of 20 watters
Ten years ago I could buy a decent Rickenbacker 360/12 for about $2500 to $3000 AUD (which was $2500 to $3000 USD). Today that same decent Rickenbacker 360/12 would fetch $5000 to $6000 AUD. That's because the AUD has tanked. Ten years ago 1 USD was about 1 AUD. Today 1 AUD is about 0.60 USD. Prices are unlikely to fall in Australia for at least 5 years ... probably even longer. Here, IT IS because of the Economic conditions here.
This is great. I work in an older music shop too & it's good to hear different perspectives. I do disagree with you about the economy. The "bad economy" is not a perception for tens of millions - it's a daily fact. For most working folks & many middle class, Bidenomics has looked good on paper, but that's all - the next election will tell? And yes, we've seen there is a glut of used instruments on the market now. And yes, we think it will only get worse for a while to come. And the music biz itself, (those playing cover music/local clubs/concerts/etc) has gotten cut-throat since the Pandemic. Owners are nervous about what they pay now, & bandleaders only hire the minimum amt of players for every gig. It's a tight market for most performers, (although Hip-Hop has seen little effect on their bottom line - but then again, we're in Atlanta so - it may be different elsewhere). I'll subscribe. Good video.
Ok I bought a Furch Red Deluxe Guitar last year for 4200$, right now it costs 4000$. What would you give me as a shop-reseller for that in case it has MIND condition? MINT - really mint, so you can even sell it as "new". And it also has a perfect guitar tech setup with bone saddle swapped fromn the tusq
It's a conflict of interest for Reverb to post the market value fluctuations because they have an interest in keeping items as valuable as possible. It's rather circular. People use Reverb to justify their outrageous prices.
So how are Fender player's series guitars 850? I was in a store yesterday and there are Asian made Squires that beat the quality of the MIM Player series by far for under 500. Best new deal right now for new if you play Fender.
People are still tryomg to sell used guitars for so much. If it costs almost as much as a new one, i might as well buy the new one. No dings or scratches or wiggly knobs.
All markets adjust. The vintage market got to a place that was unsustainable, that simple. Less disposable income, more choices, capitalist market. If you are basing your profits on gouging the original buyer then you are likely only going to do that by getting them from motivated sellers that have to accept a bit of loss. Guitars are like any market. If you pay up on an impulse you likely won’t see your money back. Deals are out there. Be decent, be honest, and you do fine getting what you want.
People selling used guitars for $100 or $200 less than new is ridiculous to me. I've seen used gear on Reverb/ebay that costs more than new when you add in tax and shipping.
Saweet .Nowonder I just got two guitars for less than half of what they where selling for more than twice than I paid .Got $2500 worth of guitars for $1200 including tax and shipping .Reverb is a rip off .Both guitar center and sweetwater have great used gear posted .
The word is, most new guitar manufacturers are in full production. Especially imports! In the 10's of millions! Why? There are probably several reasons: One, is the reduced tariff on imports. If Trump gets back in, that will end, again. The other may be that they are still recovering from the pandemic shortages? The used market, imo won't hit the apocalypse for another year or so. As Gary observed, people in general, aren't poor enough to take a hit on their pandemic inflated investment. But, that will change. The vintage market is always healthy, and for more than collecting. IMO the "nostalgia" has become the number one reason. People want to recapture the "good old days"! Which has become obliterated in these lousy days of wokeness and gender benders. When I hold my '60 LP Junior in my hands, I'm transported back to being 17 again, and hacking away at "Rock n Roll Hoochie coo" with the boys, in my garage, and the neighbors yelling to turn it down! Screw the price!! You guys over 50 know exactly what I'm talkin bout!
My theory is the old guys that have 50 guitars in the back bedroom after buying one a year forever, will result in a long term smack down of used values. So it goes.
Too many far east guitars flooding the market. I’m currently on tour with a Gretsch Streamliner, Chinese cheap as chips and does everything my four times the price 6120 QM 59 does. Of course people pay for perceived added value but that is disappearing with the huge reissue guitars. But the genuine 1955 6120 I have will always be the handmade Brooklyn factor guitar and must have additional value to someone that knows the difference but unfortunately this buyer Will become rarer I think.
Don’t matter what business ur in people don’t understand how much it costs to run a business. I owed a used car lot for years people knew I would buy cars. Someone calls me I go look at the car and it’s absolutely nothing like they described it they want 1500 for it and it’s literally not worth it to me if it was free which tried to never say I was always polite I tell them it’s not for me and then they get defensive about it tell me I’m trying to rip them off. I say how am I ripping you off I didn’t offer you anything it’s not for me. When ur a business man you understand that it’s just about how much profit per transaction but the amount of time spent to make that transaction. I could buy the same car that guy wanted 1500 at the auction for 3,000 but it’s mint only thing it might need a couple tires or maybe brakes I could sell 5 cars like this in the time I would waste on the other junk car.
I prefer trading guitars for amps or guitars of the same value.I do this on CL or Marketplace. Right now I em want to trade my 79 Fender Custom Tele for something like a tube amp head of combo
I like your shop. Looks old school.
It looks like the guitar shop I frequent. Good used selection and off beat brands hanging on the wall.
Been there a few times. It’s truly a great shop!
Noticing this on Craigslist. Tons of gear, all the same things have been listed for over a year, and every seller is saying, "I know what I have, no lowball offers!"
"Sorry, bucko. Your dinged up 6506+ ain't worth $1,500 anymore."
It clogs up the market for sure.
Honestly, when there are these new low cost brands making guitars as good or better than the quality of the Squires and Epiphones of the world, those used guitars will sit on FB MP and eBay and Reverb til they rot.
I ordered a firefly strat for 189 bucks it had a bone nut,locking tuners, nice canada roasted flame maple neck. I put lollars in it, a new jack. It's one of the best guitars i own @slackers_unite
@stahliwood8755 I bought the IYV-350 for under $200. That thing plays, sounds, and looks incredible. I'm not touring the world so I can't see paying a couple of grand for a guitar that I play a few times a week.
I completely agree with you. Your video is right on. I check used prices on gear all the time and the prices that people are asking for their beat up (=used like new in their eyes) is ridiculous! I see it all the time. People are so outta touch with their asking price. I see this all the time, especially with old music technology. Like drum machines, 4 tracks, old Roland gear. They’re asking, most times, what you could buy it for new back in the day. They slap the word ‘vintage’ on it and expect full asking price. Again, so out of touch with reality. But that seems par for the course these daze!
It must change by location cause in my area guitars are stupid stupid cheap, all over marketplace and they sit for 6 months with no buyers at near giveaways. I just bought a super clean mid 90s Ibanez EX350 for $80 and a couple days later picked up 3 8inch practice amps all 3 for $30.
It's not just the sellers. It's the buyers too and not just with instruments but with everything; People don't want to pay a fair price either. Everything has to be given away for virtually nothing. Even with cheapest of items. Try to sell something for 5 euros and no one is interested. Give it away for free and someone is at your door within 30minutes to pick it up.
That's because of eBay and reverb and such. I swear. It's got all the instrument markets jacked. Everyone say well this is what they're selling for. most times they're not smart enough to toggle the filter to already sold items and what they're looking at is asking prices
I appreciate your perspective on this and I totally agree.
I've picked up a few boutique guitars for major discounts on Reverb in recent months. If you know what you want and track the market, the deals are out there as people get desperate or fed up and just want to sell -- even really, really nice guitars that would be $1,500 more otherwise. I did have trouble selling one of my guitars on Reverb and ended up off-loading it to Guitar Center to avoid all the Reverb fees. So, yes, buyer's market, not a seller's.
Totally. I'm not even in the market for a guitar. I barely play my 3 electrics. But when I go on Facebook Marketplace it's like "wow, cheap". Part of it is that I'm older, have cash to spare. I'll admit that. The prices really have dropped, though. This guy dropped the price on this custom Jazzmaster (early 80's body) that has been on Marketplace for what seems like well over a year. If he lowers it again I might buy it.
It's the same for bikes. I'm shocked people aren't buying some of the bikes I see. Perect bombproof commuters/touring rigs. The only reason I haven't bought them is they aren't local.
Excellent video. He has just described the market realities of virtually every collectible.
Collecting, Unless your are really rich. is a suckers game, I mean look at beanie babies
Recession going on, need to wait for better times
Thank you for sharing your insights and observations. The guitar market has so many angles that hearing from an experienced shop owner is very interesting. You're serving so many customer types! From my naive perspective I wonder what the big inventory boost of entry-level guitars from 2020-2023 will do. I am part of the population that this commentary speaks to. I bought a new Gretsch Jim Dandy from a local independent shop, for my daughter(mostly me). And then 3 months later bought a used guitar from GuitarCenter. I'm enjoying the used guitar and making music. - reminding myself I will stop at local shop first for immediate needs and talk to them as I hopefully grow in my playing. Thank you again.
Never sell to a shop unless you are ok with losing your money. They have to make money, and they have to sit on it. I've never not regretted selling a guitar or any piece of gear to a shop. I think most people need to consider the business owner. Good video! Thanks for the perspective.
Excellent video. The car price metaphor is perfect. I have seen Squier basic strats asking on sites for 20-30% more than Amazon prices! Good luck with that. I think the Boomers down sizing, joint pain etc. is going to dump thousands of used guitars on the market now and over the next few years. Leading to saturation and over stocking of the guitar market. Sellers have got to face marketplace realities.
I'm seeing arthritic boomers offering their early-70s Martins for $1-2K over current values. They need to come to terms with reality. No one seems to want 12-strings.
Same with their houses.
@@ivermektin6874 real estate is controlled by real estate agents owners just go for the ride
Yes on used guitars, however vintage is strong as ever, collectors worldwide
yup..No doubt, the guitar/amp market will change drastically with the boomers heading out..Especially big amps, that they love but can't lift anymore!
great video and topics. nice to hear a real shop owner talk about reality.
There was a Gibson 76 reissue explorer sitting at my local pawnshop for the last 5 years. One day I finally decided to play it and it was a player! I had to have it. They were asking $1500 which I felt like was a pretty good deal, but I didn’t have the cash… so I traded an Epiphone sg custom+ $600 cash for it! Came with the original hsc too
Awesome,hope it was toneful.
Good move!
An actual 76 reissue from 76 or 90s/2000s 76 reissue?
If it was a 76 explorer and not a later reissue of that guitar you stole it
@@adamwatson6916 I always thought reissue was recreating an older guitar
Thank you for posting this video. It was a nice dose of reality for me and a nice benchmark for what today´s reality is. I watched this video at 10:30am and by 1:20pm I had 4 guitars sell on reverb. This is very important information for "Reverbers". I guess you have to determine where you are seeking value, through holding gear under a prospect of a better future or liquidating lower and reinvesting in a rising commodity.
Excellent topic, Gary.
valuable information you won’t learn out of a book or in class. Asking price and selling price are important to understand and comprehend. Know when to hold em and know when to fold em.
Hi from Spain, I enjoyed your presentation and honesty. I don't know the market In the US but in Europe there are so many great new guitars from numerous manufacturers available for very low prices....but there are a lot less buyers. As a result even decent quality second hand guitars are worth less than 50% of what people paid, you are correct with your observation relative to a second hand car. People should only buy any musical instrument to play and enjoy it, if you want to buy to invest, make sure you know your subject very well, it's just like buying an antique, high risk!!! Kind regards,John.
I love your frank, plain way of saying what’s what, not claiming to be anything more or less than the simple truth as you see it in your store. I thank you, man! Keep on doing exactly what you are doing.
I've been a multi instrumentalist since 1988 (drums, bass, guitar & piano). Also did sound for years so I've bought and sold a TON of gear over the years.
I can tell you definitively that the resale market is completely oversaturated at every level. A glut of decent quality gear is flooding the market in all channels (ebay, reverb, local vendors, Facebook marketplace, etc...). Too few buyers, too much inventory and shift away from guitar driven music over the last 20+ years. However the key problem is that kids today simply aren't taking up the hobby of music like they used to anymore. How can a difficult-to-learn guitar compete with cell phone apps and video games designed to offer kids a constant "dopamine reward" for simply using them? No chance whatsoever.
Pre pandemic I had 2 electrics and 1 acoustic and a old line 6 spider 75 watt combo amp. Post pandemic I have 15 electrics, 1 bass and the same acoustic. Got a 03 Mesa single rectifier and a Mesa 2x12 cab, a Marshall DSL20 head with a Marshall 2x12 vertical cab and a Orange 1x15 bass amp. Trying to sell some gear but pawn shops are offering laughable prices, Guitar Center too. Been listing stuff on Facebook market with no offers, just people wanting to trade.
Thanks so much for this video. I am a music therapist and play my guitars a lot. I’m not in the market to collect guitars but guitars that inspire me to play them. I’m in the market to add a Tele and want one that I really love. I was considering buying a new one in the color I really want but this video and other feedback tells me that instead of buying an American Pro 2 I should look used as there are a ton in the 800-1100 range that are perfect for my needs. A potential glut in the used market tells me I can get both a good deal and a great guitar without having to buy new and go for the latest thing Fender is putting out.
Went down the vintage rabbit hole about 6 years ago. Pretty much moved a lot of savings into vintage guitars. Figured I’d rather enjoy the money than just look at a number going up and down. Seems to have been a good decision. Got a minor headstock repair 55 LP custom for 8000 in 2020 - a 1960 355 for 14k in 2019, and a refin 52 Tele for 13k
Musicians should buy what they like to play. And keep in mind that a musical instrument's new value versus used will usually be worth about 50% to the next person, just as a reality check and aside from a rare event as the Pandemic.
These items are consumables. You buy them, they wear and they depreciate just like a car. People have unrealistic expectations about the value of these things when it comes to selling them.
My local shop, last time I stopped, has been dealing with this situation for the past year or so. People wanting to trade up are getting their expectations dashed a bit, being lucky to get $100 for their starter guitar. It's a buyers market online, however. Online, search what you want in your price range within your preferred area, then be patient. Thousands of used guitars online. It's a GLUT. Many of them, especially newer Asian stuff, play great out of the box. Additionally, I bought an off brand telly, that plays well as is, new for $120 delivered. This situation is going to be around for a while.
I have a couple of guitars that are more than I need. But when I see what they’re actually selling for, not what they’re being listed at, it doesn’t make any sense for me to let them go. For instance, a Fender American Pro II that lists for 1700 brand new are selling for 800-900 dollars used. I don’t need the money that bad to lose almost a thousand dollars on a perfectly good guitar.
Not to mention the hassle of selling online with the tire kicker questions and ridiculous trade offers.
@@TeddScheckler😂absolutely!
I was surprised to see the American stuff even lower than that, making the MiM and Squier almost worthless.The only thing that holds value is custom shop and vintage,- period.
wow where are you seeing American Pro II Strats for 800 or 900? I was just in GC in Arlington Texas and they are discounting brand new AM Pro II strats to 1299. I am fighting the urge to buy one, but if they are out there somewhere in the world for 400 or more less please tell me where.
@@ToddH76Facebook marketplace, Reverb, Sweetwater’s used site.
Having played for thirty years, repairing guitars for 25 and building amps for 20, as well as a decade as a car salesman*, I knew as soon as prices started getting ridiculous that this would ultimately happen, so I refused to buy anything until it did. It sucks if you want to sell something, but great if you're buying.
*Selling cars will teach you just how little people really understand about what it means when we talk about how much something is "worth." I'd get people looking to trade in a car that's only a couple years old and say "trade-in value is $20,000, that's what I want." I could then walk them to a line of cars JUST like what they're trying to trade in that are all $14000-15000 and point out that if I'm selling them for $15000, there's no way that I can give them $20,000? Half of them will just refuse to accept it, at least if you're the first dealer they've been too. If you get them after they've heard the same thing from other dealers, you might be able to deal with them.
Also: sentiment only adds value to the person who's selling it, the buyer could care less. Oh, and that repair you paid for doesn't add value to your guitars, matter of fact if it means repairs to the wood or things like refrets will probably make it worth less.
I will say that this also gives me insight into just how deep the manufacturers like Fender, PRS, Line 6 and others are tucking it up their retail dealer's asses with these sales with all these price slashing sales on their new equipment. I don't know how much of those discounts are eaten by the retailers, but it's certainly f'cking them when it comes to their used stock.
The same thing, in all similar businesses. The public seems to believe something is worth what they were prepared to pay. No, something is only worth what someone else is prepared to pay. They also seem to think that dealers make a living from not making a profit after laying out hard cash, storing and insuring it for what could be years, in the hope of selling it to some other sucker. I work in the gold business so at least we can scrap stock that is not moving, get our money back, and even make a small profit on the metal content. A guitar on the other hand is at best firewood if no one wants it. The entire world has to stop making and buying so much stuff. How many guitars does the world need?
I think the trend is that less people are playing guitar now than in 2020. And I think that trend will only continue as kids are less apt these days to learn an instrument. What does that mean for guitar players? Well, the prices will inevitably go down at least for a while.
we are stuck in the era of "if I hold out for a long while, I am destined to get the price of what it was when it was mint condition". Even I buy into this way of thinking as I acknowledge how ridiculous it is on the buying side of things. However, in order to make stuff sell, we have to acknowledge the sunk cost fallacy, and that sometimes you're not gonna make money on things, but that the experience you had with the gear is what made you break even
Do you agree that the vintage vs. new gap has widened? After being out of the market for 25 years, I recently bought an electric. What I noticed is that due to manufacturing efficiencies in Asian production, the new guitars are roughly the same price as they were 25 years ago (much like other electronics, clothes, shoes, etc.) whereas vintage guitars have generally risen with inflation. It seems to have created a widening gap in the market.
Vintage guitars have risen in price but only because people are willing to buy them at such prices. You can still get no name Vintage Japanese guitars for dirt cheap. The advent of Reverb and online marketplaces makes it easier for people to shop vintage stuff. There’s definitely a huge “I googled this guitar and saw a reverb listing for $800, so that’s what I’ll sell it for,” mentality… probably because people are strapped for cash… they’re less willing to give someone a good deal.
@@alexraia1377if someone is really strapped for cash that's when you usually get that "good deal."
I think that like any commodity in any market, if you buy "right" you generally can get your money out of guitars and can make money some of the time. Problem is, like any market, if you buy at the top, it is hard to make money, unless you maybe invest for the long term. If you buy correctly and hold over time you will be OK. I have actually make alot of money holding things like Fender Tube amps over time. However, I do see the guitars coming out of the closets and the guitars coming out of the closets is to me a leading indicator of recession. Lets see, looks like a buyers market coming..........
Lots of great points on buying or selling guitars. Especially inflated prices, or vendors' unreal valuations of gear, far beyond what people will pay for said item.
But my Squier is worth $1900!
Guitars, along with most musical instruments, are horrible investments. There are the rare few, however, that are the exceptions. I collect guitars; mainly ones that cost $5k plus with some exceptional feature(s). I plan on holding them for up to 20+ years and hope to get my returns from them. I don’t buy junk and never boutique. I haven’t lost money yet, knock on wood. However a huge part of recovering your investment is purchasing at the right price in the first place, which many seem to overlook. A guitar is a sexy purchase to a player, I get it. I don’t buy for less than 20-25% off MSRP - period if I am acquiring for investment potential. Negotiate! That helps you start with a safety buffer in terms of investment - or at least breaking even, but requires a bit more effort and a willingness to walk away. Being in a true position of power means having the ability to say, “no.”
Either buy it for love or investment. Just remember that investment requires more strategic thinking - and love, well you likely know, is almost always emotional rather than rational. Confusing the two is where the pain begins!
I sold about half of my guitar collection 2-3 years ago keeping mostly the vintage stuff and Gibson Les Pauls. I have the same problem I would normally buy more when the price dips but the stuff I see for sale is all overpriced, I see the same not selling gear on my local Facebook and Craigslist every day. No need to sell my stuff at a discount and I have two Marshall stacks and yes nobody wants them so I will just keep using them. I tell you one thing for sure I am not buying any gear new or used right now. Great video I agree with everything you say here.
I go state wide hunting down pawn shops. I have found that the shops are full of guitars and amps. One shop told me that they had 150 on display and three storage units filled with used guitars.
My takeaway - pretty soon, tomato farmers are going to have massive guitar collections! 😂
Soybeans bought most of my gear. 👍
After a lot of years of owning and selling guitars, (because I just wanted to try them out), I started inly buting guitars that were unique. My Tele is a custom wired Nashville, my Strat guitar is a G&L Skyhawk, my Jazzmaster has a custom artisan paint job and special wound pick ups. My only near to conventional guitar is my Jon Scofield signature by Ibanez.
These aren't ordinary guitars and they all have a niche.
Even with that, I would expect to wait six months for a buyer on anything I listed in today's market.
So the lesson is that this is a buyers market, even so, don't buy what you dont love.
I was just thinking about this. I bought a new Mexican Strat in 2004 for $250. Today, I can’t find a decent used one for less than $700. It’s still a Mexican Strat. It’s not a $700 guitar to me and never will be. But I guess the inflation aspect gives people of different ages some different perspectives. But the idea that a used budget guitar will increase in value is ludicrous, at least for instruments made any later than the late 80s.
This is an excellent video, thanks for your clear explanation.
I’ve owned over 50 guitars in my lifetime so far and I got to use and enjoy all of them. Everything from Gibson Sunburst J45 Vine, to the cheapest Squier Telecaster. With that being said, I also made money on every single one except for my very first new guitar, that was a Gibson Les Paul Studio in Ruby Red from the early 80s. That’s when I was young and dumb. You can make money and get to use any guitar on the planet you want if you know what you’re doing. I personally never buy new these days unless I get a deal alert and then I may flip it quickly or if I like it, keep it a while and still make a profit later on. Small amps are the best as you don’t need to be blasted away to achieve break up. I recently scored a 2000 USA Telecaster Deluxe Sunburst in absolutely like new condition for under $1000 I’ve had this guitar before I regretted selling it. I know for a fact that I could sell it for $1500 but this one is a keeper. Folks ! Make offers online even if the sellers aren’t accepting offers, you would be surprised. Put guitars in your save search options online and be patient. Never buy from a guitar store unless you know exactly what you want and you’re happy with the price. I’m currently waiting on a deal for a mid 1960s Gretsch. Patience Grasshopper.
I wish I could see your store and hang out for a while. I miss my local one. Couldn’t compete with eBay, internet and reverb.
What you're saying makes sense and not surprising. The last thing you said is interesting though -- true vintage gear prices are holding steady it's the stuff from the last 15 years. Are you seeing a difference in values for premium stuff from the last 15 years? Say guitars in the 3K plus price point? Are they holding value or dip as well?
And you add to that the hugely improved quality of Indonesian and Chinese guitars, the drive to buy an American made guitar is diminished. I play an 80 Gibson ES-347/79 ES-335TD that I bought when they were sub 2000 (the latter was sub 1400). I wanted to get something that fit with those guitars but was a bit different. I did a bunch of research and there was so much information about how good the Yamaha Revstar Standard is. Why go out and buy someone's $1200 Epiphone off of Craigslist when I can get a used Revstar for less than 700 on Reverb or Ebay. I missed the covid era gear buy up because my rig hasn't changed in 8 years. But I have seen this great divide between overpriced name brands and underpriced well built Asian guitars.
The smaller craze sucks. I would love an an SVT and 8x10 cab and no one stocks them anymore…
Very enlightening. Thank you for your honest opinion.
Buyers are staying away for now because they dont know if prices will go down at a later time. Theres a guitar I was looking at used, it seems like an alright price. Im not going for it because if I end up not gelling with it, I dont think ill be able to move it without getting soaked.
Every corporation that needs growth doesn't understand that a flood aka pandemic, is not growth that has to be built on. I'm 31 years in the transportation industry, and now that we're back to where we were before pandemic, corporate is acting like our volume is low.😂
Just had this conversation with my local shop owner.
Interesting video. I like the comparison with used car prices which are settling down after the post pandemic madness.
6:13 The prices on 100W heads (new and used) has to give at some point. What's a new JVM410h, $3,700 in the States? There are those of us who still want them, but we're fewer and fewer as time goes on.
So if the market is flooded now, your new guitar prices should also reflect that. But something tells me that isn’t the case. 😂
"No, that's not what they are going for, it's what they are asking". Good advice. I just picked up a steal on an amp for $500. On Reverb, they are asking $1300 - $2500. Did I get a good deal, Yes! Can I flip it for $2500? Probably not. But I didn't buy it to flip. I bought it to keep for the rest of my life!
Guitars are not investments, they're a hole one throws money into.
Obviously other then buying a more rare Vintage guitar that is hard to find and harder to find in good condition. That is where I believe thats its ok to spend some hard earned cash. What I cant stand is the big name brands selling there gear for top top dollar. The Market is flooded these days with some very high quality guitars at affordable prices. Im very thankful for that. Some of these brands really rival the big name and at a fraction of the price. Im very happy with the Firefly brand,Harley Benton, IYV..I had just recently bought a Squire bullet Sparkle red Limited edition telecaster. Kinda bought the bullet tele cause this was the last year of production of the bullets before the switch to the Sonic series. The IYV,Harley Benton and firefly came set up really well and great fret work. The squier needed a some fret work as it had some sharp fret ends and some fret sprout. No big deal as I took care of that. So would have to say squier stepped it up as they had to because of all the newer budget priced guitars on the market. Kinda recently I was at my local guitar center and checked out a frw guitars. One was a $500-$600 Epiphone Les Paul and another was $2500 Gibson Les Paul then a Epiphone 335. My IYV LP-300 Les Paul copies fret work is better lol. That being said Gibson and Fender dont have to worry though as people still want the original. It would be nice if they adjusted there prices to put them in the hands of more guitarist. One big thing that I see in the not so distant future of the guitar market is lower prices. Is generation issue. Im 45 yrs old. I believe we are the problem for the high prices and the Vintage market and relicing. We have our guitar gods and like to mimic there sounds and also love owning the gear of favorite guitar idols. I think the newer generations really could care less.
Maybe I can get that Gretsch I’ve always wanted since the market has quite a few used ones ? Prices HAVE come down a little bit…
We just closed 2 small stores. Most customers have totally unrealistic expectations.
Very good information; I just bought 4 new guitars and would love to pick up a 120W amp head. I must be in a strange niche of customers.
It makes total sense for a number of reasons. All the reasons he laid out, but also, think about it. Nobody wants the large amps anymore because most young people can't afford places to live where they can fit them, much less use them. A Marshall stack is not suited for apartment living. And even if the player had a place to store/play the amp, their just aren't the same volume of gigs as there were in the 70s and 80s. And even if you can find a gig, how many places can you bring your big amp to and use it? The market is oversaturated with guitars and amps. And now you have Amazon and Temu (don't buy from them) selling import guitars for dirt cheap. Of course the vintage guitars will always sell because they are being bought by boomers like myself who can afford them, even if it's just for snob appeal. Not that I AM buying any vintage guitars, but that is who is buying them. It's not the kid working at Subway or Best Buy. Add in the modding trend, where people bought Squiers for $200 and then put another $350 into them in terms of pickups, tuning machines and new switches/wiring. They try to sell that guitar and they would be lucky to get $200 for it. They sure aren't getting $550. If you try to trade something in nowadays, it's like jewelry. You know, you buy the engagement ring for $2,500 and the jeweler tells you, "I'm losing money on it at this price." You bring the ring back to the jeweler the next day because your girl said NO and the jeweler tells you, "I can't give you more than $1,800 for this ring -- and I'm losing money on it at that."
I think the only factor you didn't mention, which bodes badly for prices longer term, is the boom also created an influx of middle-men traders. At least two new guitar traders opened in my smallish city, and it seemed every week there was a new ebay account with a fancy logo claiming "they source the best guitars" (when they just sell anything they can get and it's just some guy out of his flat). These guys needed to make a profit, so prices crept up and up. Now these guys have made a fair bit of money, but are unlikely to be able to sit on a stock of 30 guitars that's not moving, when they decide to liquidate and sell up, those long term listings holding the market value up disappear and everything comes down.
Thank you for posting, I was wondering if something like this was happening I'm going to hold off for a couple months, this is just late The bike market during the pandemic bikes are really cheap now people bought a ton of them and now want to get rid of them
Yet another reason why I strictly play and collect vintage guitars. People whine about the prices, but those are the same people buying new gear and whining about depreciation and the “gear apocalypse.” Vintage guitars typically hold their value and in many cases go up (sometimes significantly). Just the facts of it.
It’s not a rumor - the economy is bad, inflation is real, and as a guitar nut I haven’t bought in close to two years…draw your own conclusions
I just bought a brand new Taylor traveler for $300. The guitar shop was overstocked and had a new shipment coming in.
"Extra guitars" hahaha. No such thing. 11 guitars and counting. None of them are extras and none of them will ever be sold until I’m six feet under.
Amen, brother
Best Video On the Guitar Scene in 2024 !
What is your definition of Vintage - What wod I get for a 2003 Gibson Les Paul standard?
Thanks for this, useful info from a storeowner's perspective
Lots of really low priced NEW guitars from all over the world. CNC’s and experience and competition means lots of really GOOD guitars for sale with upgraded options so used stuff with yesterday’s colors and features will not sell for premium prices anymore. The guitar consumer has real quality available for way less than ever before. This affects mid priced items more than high end. Playing is more fun for more people than ever before. This includes amps as well, New captures and modelers are better than ever, affecting mid priced amps more than collectibles. It happens enjoy what you like and don’t worry about it, ok?
I want a used guitar so I can learn to play. Acoustic would make sense to learn. Where do I start to look? I don't want to get a bad deal.
I learned trumpet in school band.
Also guys remember.....pawn shops now have the internet to look up the value and with that in mind, pawn shops will give you 1/3 the value and mark up for them to make a living also.
People don't realize that every hook on the wall where a guitar can hang needs to generate a certain amount of cash per month (divided by all the other hooks on the wall) in order to pay the rent for the space and make it economically feasible for them to be able to come in and get to hold and play an instrument in their hands before deciding whether to purchase it and then receive setup and maintenance support after the fact.
That equation, coupled with the fact that people are cheap asses these days, is why sales are moving online-direct for most manufacturers and now you just look at a picture on your phone and get the guitar that comes in the mail.
Im baffled by this online in the box purchasing. I mean really?
How are you going to know you want a guitar without hearing it and feeling the neck? The weight, the contour?
Every guitar is unique.
Very candid, thank you
As an acoustic guitar fellow I have seen a ton of guitars for sale but quality stuff like Martin D28s are still holding their value. I really want a D40 they are still a pile of dough.
Been playing Fender Strat since i started now love to build my own with my own pickups and neck
The increase in price of new gear since the pandemic has also got too high. Gibson custom shop guitars are now just too high in price and you see them sitting in stock for a long time. But I notice that the second hand price of custom shop stuff has dropped significantly.
There's been talk of the guitar market being flooded. Is this true? If so, it's probably because of the Covid 19 epidemic. That's when I decided to pick up guitar playing again after a 10+ year hiatus. Big companies are going through changes, ownerships, bankruptcy, you name it !!! What's going on? Any thoughts?
There is another aspect of this that we are all treating like a walk past a graveyard spent whistling; the guitar ''gods'' are dying off fast. Eddie is gone, Jeff is gone, Chet is gone, and how long will Jimmy (Page) and Steve (Howe) last? The people who inspired the Boomers to spend large chunks of their retirements on guitars are no longer influencing large chunks of the youth to spend 100,000 hours of their life chasing the dream of being the next guitar star, or to even busk on a street corner as a certain fellow did long ago, for The Greatest Generation, whose moniker was ''This machine kills fascists''. It's basically Tim Henson influencing 14 year olds to buy an Indonesian made Ibanez and plug it into their computer or iPhone. In 10 years from today there will be a glut of classic guitars hit the market, placed there by the Gen X children of the last Boomers to die who filled their man caves with ''collectable'' guitars that they paid crazy money for, which no one will be willing to pay even 25% of what they will be asking. Gen X folks, like myself, who got in on the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s run of ''be a rock star'' won't be enough to float such a market. Most of us missed out on that $50-75,000 a year job that could afford us such excesses, we are barely able to keep up with taxes, insurance, and food, a few of us bought houses and have 2 cars, but that's it, nothing anywhere near what our parents had. Vacations? Nope. 2nd homes? Nope. Extra room for guitars that we spent $500,000 on? LOL, ummm, no. Kids today (I'm talking about 20 somethings) look back at the last century and become angry, the jobs are gone and the ''education'' offered at universities is a 100% racket backed sleight of hand op. That just makes the concept of ever becoming a guitar ''god'' or rock star seem like the dumbest thing ever. And, I can't blame them, a big part of me agrees with them.
Are kids still finding out about Led Zeppelin? Sure, they are inundated now with reaction videos that praise classic rock but that's not enough to sway them from playing trumpet to guitar. The guitar is no longer the stand out instrument of rebellion that it once was. For guitar sales, that's the nail in the coffin because it will lead to that old refrain of ''Rock is dead'' being true. These TH-cam channels of shredders and guitar accessory promotions, over the next 10 years they are going away as well. The algorithms will, with the decrease in money movement, begin to push those folks under. That's a certainty. They will be replaced with other subjects no different than the ocean filling up a hole that was punched into it.
A large part of the new guitar apocalypse is due to the latest DIY home built guitar sector. There's some stunning kit guitars out there but they are flooding the market.
I miss moulded cases supplied by the manufacturer. I need a moulded case for my Rickenbacker 481, and I don’t want to pay the same price as I did for the guitar to get it. 😄
With the Quality of P.A systems now and all the great multiple channel amps and pedals nobody really needs a full stack or half stack . Although using low wattage amps paired with 4 by 12s is a geat sound . To me small amps sound their best through bigger cabs especially small low watt combo amps .
2 by 12 cabs seem to be much more popular now along with oversized 1 by 12s
The long and Mqcuade music shop in my home city almost never gets in 4 by 12s and when they do they take a very long time to sell . They are basically an order only item but they sell alot of 1 by 12s and especually 2 by 12s . They also rarely stock 100 watt amps anymore and bring in as many 50 watters either . The vast majority of the Amps are 40 watts and under with by far the most common range being 5 watts to 20 watts . The store moves alot of 20 watters
Ten years ago I could buy a decent Rickenbacker 360/12 for about $2500 to $3000 AUD (which was $2500 to $3000 USD).
Today that same decent Rickenbacker 360/12 would fetch $5000 to $6000 AUD.
That's because the AUD has tanked. Ten years ago 1 USD was about 1 AUD. Today 1 AUD is about 0.60 USD.
Prices are unlikely to fall in Australia for at least 5 years ... probably even longer. Here, IT IS because of the Economic conditions here.
Yep. The US has the strongest post pandemic economy worldwide. Only Japan comes close and not that close.
Thanks President Biden! 👍🏽
This is great. I work in an older music shop too & it's good to hear different perspectives.
I do disagree with you about the economy. The "bad economy" is not a perception for tens of millions - it's a daily fact. For most working folks & many middle class, Bidenomics has looked good on paper, but that's all - the next election will tell?
And yes, we've seen there is a glut of used instruments on the market now. And yes, we think it will only get worse for a while to come. And the music biz itself, (those playing cover music/local clubs/concerts/etc) has gotten cut-throat since the Pandemic. Owners are nervous about what they pay now, & bandleaders only hire the minimum amt of players for every gig. It's a tight market for most performers, (although Hip-Hop has seen little effect on their bottom line - but then again, we're in Atlanta so - it may be different elsewhere).
I'll subscribe. Good video.
Just a technical note - maybe work on the volume, because I have my speaker maxed and you still sound quiet.
Ok I bought a Furch Red Deluxe Guitar last year for 4200$, right now it costs 4000$. What would you give me as a shop-reseller for that in case it has MIND condition? MINT - really mint, so you can even sell it as "new". And it also has a perfect guitar tech setup with bone saddle swapped fromn the tusq
It's a conflict of interest for Reverb to post the market value fluctuations because they have an interest in keeping items as valuable as possible. It's rather circular. People use Reverb to justify their outrageous prices.
I’d say new guitar prices have been out of wack as well and just as a start need to come down 20%.
So how are Fender player's series guitars 850? I was in a store yesterday and there are Asian made Squires that beat the quality of the MIM Player series by far for under 500. Best new deal right now for new if you play Fender.
So it is good times for buyers.
People are still tryomg to sell used guitars for so much. If it costs almost as much as a new one, i might as well buy the new one. No dings or scratches or wiggly knobs.
All markets adjust. The vintage market got to a place that was unsustainable, that simple. Less disposable income, more choices, capitalist market. If you are basing your profits on gouging the original buyer then you are likely only going to do that by getting them from motivated sellers that have to accept a bit of loss. Guitars are like any market. If you pay up on an impulse you likely won’t see your money back. Deals are out there. Be decent, be honest, and you do fine getting what you want.
Actually we are in a socialist market. Thats why were all broke. The vintage market is weathering it quite well
People selling used guitars for $100 or $200 less than new is ridiculous to me. I've seen used gear on Reverb/ebay that costs more than new when you add in tax and shipping.
Saweet .Nowonder I just got two guitars for less than half of what they where selling for more than twice than I paid .Got $2500 worth of guitars for $1200 including tax and shipping .Reverb is a rip off .Both guitar center and sweetwater have great used gear posted .
Sure, if dealers still insist on trying to grab as ludicrous of prices, as is still the case.
The word is, most new guitar manufacturers are in full production. Especially imports! In the 10's of millions! Why? There are probably several reasons: One, is the reduced tariff on imports. If Trump gets back in, that will end, again. The other may be that they are still recovering from the pandemic shortages? The used market, imo won't hit the apocalypse for another year or so. As Gary observed, people in general, aren't poor enough to take a hit on their pandemic inflated investment. But, that will change. The vintage market is always healthy, and for more than collecting. IMO the "nostalgia" has become the number one reason. People want to recapture the "good old days"! Which has become obliterated in these lousy days of wokeness and gender benders. When I hold my '60 LP Junior in my hands, I'm transported back to being 17 again, and hacking away at "Rock n Roll Hoochie coo" with the boys, in my garage, and the neighbors yelling to turn it down! Screw the price!! You guys over 50 know exactly what I'm talkin bout!
My theory is the old guys that have 50 guitars in the back bedroom after buying one a year forever, will result in a long term smack down of used values. So it goes.
Anyone who opens a guitar shop is obviously a person of good character. 😊
Management is stupid, they managed me out of my job. Thought the boom was eternal.
Like anything else, guitars are only worth what they can sell for. If you check reverb, prices are being reduced by everyone. The market sucks.
AKA market saturation. Eventually most have to go back to work.
Too many far east guitars flooding the market. I’m currently on tour with a Gretsch Streamliner, Chinese cheap as chips and does everything my four times the price 6120 QM 59 does. Of course people pay for perceived added value but that is disappearing with the huge reissue guitars. But the genuine
1955 6120 I have will always be the handmade Brooklyn factor guitar and must have additional value to someone that knows the difference but unfortunately this buyer
Will become rarer I think.
Don’t matter what business ur in people don’t understand how much it costs to run a business. I owed a used car lot for years people knew I would buy cars. Someone calls me I go look at the car and it’s absolutely nothing like they described it they want 1500 for it and it’s literally not worth it to me if it was free which tried to never say I was always polite I tell them it’s not for me and then they get defensive about it tell me I’m trying to rip them off. I say how am I ripping you off I didn’t offer you anything it’s not for me. When ur a business man you understand that it’s just about how much profit per transaction but the amount of time spent to make that transaction. I could buy the same car that guy wanted 1500 at the auction for 3,000 but it’s mint only thing it might need a couple tires or maybe brakes I could sell 5 cars like this in the time I would waste on the other junk car.
I prefer trading guitars for amps or guitars of the same value.I do this on CL or Marketplace. Right now I em want to trade my 79 Fender Custom Tele for something like a tube amp head of combo