Chainers Edict and Ichorid are the stuff of nightmares. Its interesting to see how evil and sinister the art direction was for black cards back then compared to today. Today each color feels like a different type of hero, where back then black felt more evil and adversarial.
I disagree. There's still a lot more gore and horror in the black slice compared to other colors even among modern cards but they also lean more into manipulation and subjugation as well as presenting black-aligned activities like sacrificial murder as a necessary evil against even bigger threats.
The fact of the matter is that Magic’s art is more and more homogenous every set. There used to be a lot more artistic variety, now they want everything to feel the same. It’s boring, frankly. You used to be able to instantly identify who drew any card, whether it was Melissa Benson, Anson Maddocks, Drew Tucker, Kaja and Phil Foglio, etc etc.
Torment will always have a special place in my heart. 2002 was the pinnacle of my Magic days. The prerelease I went to had over 200 people and I placed 15th. I think my record was 5-3, and I won 8 or 10 packs. In addition to the Laquatus's Champion prerelease card I got 2 in my packs along with an Ambassador Laquatus. Sheldon Menery was the head judge.
There were a lot of fun set gimmicks in that era. Invasion reintroduced multicolored cards, Apocalypse focused on enemy colors, Torment as noted focused on black, Judgment focused on white and green, and Legions was all-creature.
Thank you for nostalgic feelings. Odyssey block was one of my most active tournament-play blocks. The most fun was Odyssey-block draft, where Torment booster was going second and you had to decide early are you going to count on black boost from second booster or not )
@11:41 Honestly... The flashback on Deep Analysis is SUPER underrated... For 1 generic (and 3 life) more; You get the *exact* same card advantage as Ancestral Recall... Albeit at sorcery speed. There was a deck in Odyssey Block Constructed that ran Deep Analysis + Roar of the Wurm and a card called "Quiet Speculation" to fetch them (and/or other cute 1ofs that had flashback). It was super solid... Hearing a turn two "Cast Quiet Speculation" (usually for 2 Roar of the Wurm + 1 Deep Analysis, or the other way around). Was ridiculously common. That era of MTG (2000-2002 aka Invasion through Judgement) was nothing short of amazing!
I was a little surprised he didn't mention how madness and flashback interacted with the strong loot effects in the format like Merfolk Looter and Careful Study. Not only was Rootwalla a free creature, but it was a free creature that drew you a card. And Deep Analysis was a 2-mana Ancestral.
@@kareemjonson Yes... I'm sure. The "draw 2" on the flashback is misleading (in regards to card advantage) and often tricked people into thinking it's was a 2cc Divination (which is good, but not broken) When it is actually closer to a splashable 2cc Demonic Offering (which it very good).
Man, time flies... I've started playing Magic in Torment (played a few matches before, with my cousin cards.. And then he gave me the Madness deck as a gift).
I started around this time. First I had a GW deck and bought a lot of judgement boosters, then wanting to go black, I changed to torment. I still have the monoblack control deck I built for standard, double corrupt with Mirari for the win.
Let’s goooo my absolute favorite set which housed my very first ever deck I ever played with one of the torment precons… this set is the reason black is my favorite magic color by a long shot and so happy to see it get covered
Hehe I still run both Rootwalla 4 of in a elsewise mono black shell. They’re just perfect? Free discard targets, into free sac targets, or pesky damage when needed.
Mesmeric Fiend, it's other Nightmare brethren, and O-Ring are the reasons why every single card that has been printed recently with temporary exile has been templated to have the Exile and Return triggers as one massive effect as opposed to two separate effects, as it is super easy to abuse them with proper timing, especially easy for the Fiend, as sacrificing creatures is super easy compared to sacrificing enchantments.
Great retrospective on a cool set! Even though the color balanced set design didn’t catch on, I think this one really helped set concepts like “this is a graveyard set, every color needs an appropriate way to use the graveyard.”
Torment is by far one of my favorite sets, eventhough I started playing in onslaught, my very first booster was from torment and my first competitive deck was an extended mono black deck with cabal coffers, Chainers edict, Mutilate, mesmeric fiend etc... The art work in the set was also crazy good 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
My favorite thing about deep analysis is it says "target player" so you can use it as a political tool in commander and in pauper its sometimes recurred infinitely in UW Familiars to mill out your opponent.
Judgment was the newest set of magic when i started playing and i even used it for my gamertag name for gaming. However, i bought a bunch of cards from torment as my first cards i ever owned. The packaging just looked really cool for it.
Love your Channel for years❤ Would be possible to do the top 10 “longest Unbanning” This is the top 10 cards that spent the longest time on a Banned or the Vintage Restricted list before become Unbanned I think some of the cards we will find will be Black Vise(Formally Legacy Banned list), Minds Desire(Also formally Legacy Banned List) and Fastbond(FormerlyVintage restricted list)
The fact that Coffers is only number 10 should say something. I'm pretty sure that card gets played in literally every mono-black commander deck ever, and it was no slouch in standard at the time it came out either.
The Mesmeric Fiend trigger hack doesn't sound right. The actions in the first paragraph of the card are separate and should resolve before the actions in the second paragraph can be triggered. That's because the actions in the first paragraph are triggered by the card entering the battlefield, a chain of events that must complete before the card can trigger its the leave-the-battlefield events in the second paragraph. In short, the card can't leave the battlefield before it enters the battlefield.
It's right, trust me. Works with Oblivion Ring too, as well as Parallax Wave. You're right that it doesn’t really make sense when you think about it, but it works because of the stack.
Odd idea about Mesmeric Fiend, inspired by Oblivion ring/Bounce Effect shenanigans. If I'm reading Mesmeric Fiend (and Ob Ring) correctly, if they somehow "leave play" while their ETB trigger is on the stack, would that leave the targeted card exiled?
IIRC Inquest called Cabal Coffers the weakest card of the set because it only starts getting good after turn 4, which turned to be... not a very good prediction.
Chainers Edict and Ichorid are the stuff of nightmares. Its interesting to see how evil and sinister the art direction was for black cards back then compared to today. Today each color feels like a different type of hero, where back then black felt more evil and adversarial.
Comparing the first New Phyrexia set to ONE showcased how sterile 2020's MtG horror got.
@@AkukAkuku IDK man, those alternate Black and White arts give me the creeps
@@cherry9787 that's more of the artists talent than the designs themselves, junji ito can frankly make anything unsettling very well.
I disagree. There's still a lot more gore and horror in the black slice compared to other colors even among modern cards but they also lean more into manipulation and subjugation as well as presenting black-aligned activities like sacrificial murder as a necessary evil against even bigger threats.
The fact of the matter is that Magic’s art is more and more homogenous every set. There used to be a lot more artistic variety, now they want everything to feel the same. It’s boring, frankly. You used to be able to instantly identify who drew any card, whether it was Melissa Benson, Anson Maddocks, Drew Tucker, Kaja and Phil Foglio, etc etc.
Torment will always have a special place in my heart. 2002 was the pinnacle of my Magic days. The prerelease I went to had over 200 people and I placed 15th. I think my record was 5-3, and I won 8 or 10 packs. In addition to the Laquatus's Champion prerelease card I got 2 in my packs along with an Ambassador Laquatus. Sheldon Menery was the head judge.
There were a lot of fun set gimmicks in that era. Invasion reintroduced multicolored cards, Apocalypse focused on enemy colors, Torment as noted focused on black, Judgment focused on white and green, and Legions was all-creature.
I love the flavor text on Deep Analysis. The artwork is a Masticore, lol. Not "broken" these days, but certainly was in its time.
My boi Basking Rootwala made the list, love to see it.
Honestly, wild how many of these are commons and uncommons!
and were reprinted as rare or mythics and now they are worth 30 bucks instead of 30 cents xD.
Of course that (nightmare) card would make the list!😂
Only 2 of them were rares, crazy.
Thank you for nostalgic feelings. Odyssey block was one of my most active tournament-play blocks. The most fun was Odyssey-block draft, where Torment booster was going second and you had to decide early are you going to count on black boost from second booster or not )
Loved Odyssey Block. Mesmeric Fiend is an all time fave and Grim Lavamancer is pingtastic
@11:41 Honestly... The flashback on Deep Analysis is SUPER underrated...
For 1 generic (and 3 life) more; You get the *exact* same card advantage as Ancestral Recall... Albeit at sorcery speed.
There was a deck in Odyssey Block Constructed that ran Deep Analysis + Roar of the Wurm and a card called "Quiet Speculation" to fetch them (and/or other cute 1ofs that had flashback).
It was super solid... Hearing a turn two "Cast Quiet Speculation" (usually for 2 Roar of the Wurm + 1 Deep Analysis, or the other way around). Was ridiculously common.
That era of MTG (2000-2002 aka Invasion through Judgement) was nothing short of amazing!
Are you sure the flashback is „underrated“ when it's always been THE reason the card was played?
I was a little surprised he didn't mention how madness and flashback interacted with the strong loot effects in the format like Merfolk Looter and Careful Study. Not only was Rootwalla a free creature, but it was a free creature that drew you a card. And Deep Analysis was a 2-mana Ancestral.
@@kareemjonson Yes... I'm sure.
The "draw 2" on the flashback is misleading (in regards to card advantage) and often tricked people into thinking it's was a 2cc Divination (which is good, but not broken)
When it is actually closer to a splashable 2cc Demonic Offering (which it very good).
One of the best sets ever. Wish they did more color focused sets like this one.
They do with commander and the color white /s
Interesting how many of these have seen resurgences comparatively recently, given how old the set is.
i remember torment coming out when i was a child. surprised they never did it again.
My favorite set ever! In my eyes, Duskmourn is the spiritual succesor Torment fans have been waiting for!
The deep analysis flavor text always gets me
That was a deliberate intent
I was wondering if he would mention it, as NIzzahon made a video about Masticore, I think
3:17
Nadu: “If only we could find a way…”
Remember, the lead designer of MH3 didn't know. None of the set designers that he showed the current version of Nadu off to knew.
I started playing right around Torment. Loved this set, and the list just brings back happy memories
This set is so busted that neither Fiery Temper nor the Tainted Duals made it to top 10. Even Coffers is merely number 10. Absolutely insane.
Graham from LoadingReadyRun just did a Crack-a-Pack of Torment, so this is some neat timing.
I was just watching another video about the Cleveland Browns, suddenly Nizzas voice rings in a startling tone "Torment!"
Man, time flies... I've started playing Magic in Torment (played a few matches before, with my cousin cards.. And then he gave me the Madness deck as a gift).
I started around this time. First I had a GW deck and bought a lot of judgement boosters, then wanting to go black, I changed to torment. I still have the monoblack control deck I built for standard, double corrupt with Mirari for the win.
Let’s goooo my absolute favorite set which housed my very first ever deck I ever played with one of the torment precons… this set is the reason black is my favorite magic color by a long shot and so happy to see it get covered
Hehe I still run both Rootwalla 4 of in a elsewise mono black shell. They’re just perfect? Free discard targets, into free sac targets, or pesky damage when needed.
Nizzahon: To be eligible for this list, a card had to receive its original printing in Torment.
Sengir Vampire on the screen: Am I a joke to you?
Great video! Surprised you didn't save it for October, it's a pretty spooky set!
Mesmeric Fiend, it's other Nightmare brethren, and O-Ring are the reasons why every single card that has been printed recently with temporary exile has been templated to have the Exile and Return triggers as one massive effect as opposed to two separate effects, as it is super easy to abuse them with proper timing, especially easy for the Fiend, as sacrificing creatures is super easy compared to sacrificing enchantments.
I started playin in torment block so this video is nostalgic AF. I want my blue/green madness deck back
Great retrospective on a cool set! Even though the color balanced set design didn’t catch on, I think this one really helped set concepts like “this is a graveyard set, every color needs an appropriate way to use the graveyard.”
This is right around the time when I started taking magic seriously. I started with the end of urza saga as a kid, just in awe of the game
I have a foil Ichorid signed by RK Post and It was a gift from a friend, I love that card and have it in my Umbris commander deck!
I am still tormented by the fact I haven't got "Top 10 Vintage Cards (Minus Power 9)" yet! But if I endure a bit longer, I'm sure it will come!
Mutilate is one of the most disturbing art, still creeps me out 25 years later.
This was the first set I opened as a kid and it is still my fave art and vibe. Love dark creature art like Mesmeric Fiend and Faceless Butcher.
Torment is by far one of my favorite sets, eventhough I started playing in onslaught, my very first booster was from torment and my first competitive deck was an extended mono black deck with cabal coffers, Chainers edict, Mutilate, mesmeric fiend etc... The art work in the set was also crazy good 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Torment was the first set I bought a booster box of. It was pretty darn disappointing for $100, which was enough in 2002 for a couple dates
My favorite thing about deep analysis is it says "target player" so you can use it as a political tool in commander and in pauper its sometimes recurred infinitely in UW Familiars to mill out your opponent.
Judgment was the newest set of magic when i started playing and i even used it for my gamertag name for gaming. However, i bought a bunch of cards from torment as my first cards i ever owned. The packaging just looked really cool for it.
Cabal Coffers gave me an idea for a video. Top 10 rarity shifted cards? You don't see that too often and I thought it might be an interesting video.
Love these set-based top 10s! They should do a set like this now with an emphasis on red 😂
Thats basically bloomburrow
Love your Channel for years❤
Would be possible to do the top 10 “longest Unbanning”
This is the top 10 cards that spent the longest time on a Banned or the Vintage Restricted list before become Unbanned
I think some of the cards we will find will be Black Vise(Formally Legacy Banned list), Minds Desire(Also formally Legacy Banned List) and Fastbond(FormerlyVintage restricted list)
This was my first set, and may explain why I love black so much. Chainer was my first legendary
torment odyssey and onslaught are my three favorite sets nostalgia wise at least. Actively played when they were released and stopped around scourge.
Glad to see another Set Top 10 (Best/Worst)!
This was when i first started playing. Loved this set
Chainer's edict was a staple for us teens playing casually after school.
My favourite series you do by a mile
"Shock every shingle turn" 🤣
I was not expecting that at the top of the list.
One of the best sets of all time from one of the best blocks of all time. Torment was peak MTG imo.
Another Top 10 to add to the set!
Its interesting how many of the cards in the list wery idle for long time and found a new home recently
Nadu before Nadu mentioned! Cephalid Breakfast!
Incredible Set.
6:09 my favorite card I autograph a judge one it was my frist card I beat my friend with lots time
The fact that Coffers is only number 10 should say something. I'm pretty sure that card gets played in literally every mono-black commander deck ever, and it was no slouch in standard at the time it came out either.
Please do a video on bad packs that only got better with time
The Mesmeric Fiend trigger hack doesn't sound right. The actions in the first paragraph of the card are separate and should resolve before the actions in the second paragraph can be triggered. That's because the actions in the first paragraph are triggered by the card entering the battlefield, a chain of events that must complete before the card can trigger its the leave-the-battlefield events in the second paragraph. In short, the card can't leave the battlefield before it enters the battlefield.
It's right, trust me.
Works with Oblivion Ring too, as well as Parallax Wave. You're right that it doesn’t really make sense when you think about it, but it works because of the stack.
@@NizzahonMagic Yeah, the stack is notoriously dysfunctional dealing with separate chains of events.
Peak MTG ❤️
Odd idea about Mesmeric Fiend, inspired by Oblivion ring/Bounce Effect shenanigans.
If I'm reading Mesmeric Fiend (and Ob Ring) correctly, if they somehow "leave play" while their ETB trigger is on the stack, would that leave the targeted card exiled?
(*finishes watching the section and finds confirmation.*)
Cracked set
IIRC Inquest called Cabal Coffers the weakest card of the set because it only starts getting good after turn 4, which turned to be... not a very good prediction.
The card is actually not that great on its own. It's really Urborg that breaks it by completely removing all of its downsides.
FIRST!
#swamplife
okay hear me out: TOP 10 TRIBES
That sounds like an insane amount of work to figure out how many points an entire creature type has.
I have kind of done this. Did top 10 tribal decks.
@@JasonOshinko i bet bro has a complete excel sheet
@@aguilefo Of individual cards, maybe. But not of every creature in every deck that's ever top 8ed.