For me character placement is a different story, I put them in slots where I can see their animations better for example mando I put him in the second slot so I can see it better even though I have seen it millions of times, and another example is the bad batch, I put echo in the first slot so I can see the never any doubt ability better, and put tech in the fourth slot so I can see him roll that sweet detonator down
i always put my tank in the second slot. dunno why, just always have. then my main damage dealer or second tank in 3rd. support in 4, and healer/second support in 5
@@AhnaldT101 I think I figured it out. How it works is the order works is sun fac is faster than geo soldier but they are around the same speed so I guess it's based on speed and then placement because geo is a head sun because its placement i guess because of the similar speed. I dunno its just my idea you don't need to listen to me I'm not that smart
I place in order which is easiest to assist and see. When using Phoenix team, I had zeb in fourth slot with chopper in fifth so it's was easier to click on them meanwhile having ezra in the third because I won't be clicking on him as much. So it's kind of a tall characters on the left side while shorter characters are closer to the screen.
Jolee being in the 2nd slot isn't because people want him to attack first, it's mainly because if multiple people die (except Revan) at the same time the savior unique will trigger on the character who is in the 2nd slot before the 3rd, 4th and 5th, so basically it keeps your Jolee alive to revive the others, but ofcourse if Revan also dies with them, then savior will always trigger on him because he is in the 1st slot.
This might be 2 years old, but I somehow missed this video back then and just saw it. Been blowing my mind and this bit about Savior mechanics has as well. Cheers!
The easiest way to see animations speeds is to see when they return to their original spots. Notice how Sun Fac and Geo Soldier's animation has them standing and shooting with the same exact animation (resulting in a tie). With Jolee, it's super easy to see he's first to return to his home position. You can also use this to see who goes second, third, etc. Just look at the order in which they return to their home position
@@jgadventures4161 mine are just under 86 and I have beat it the last 3 months. We used the theory that they assist in the order you place them, so what Ahnald found doesn’t change anything bc we had Sun Fac above Soldier already.
To see who attacks second you could use a mass assist on a character with foresight so the first character misses and the second one gets the deathmark
In the case of the Chewies is easier to understand what's going on with the assists, you can clearly see that Og Chewie shoots faster, so he's getting the deathmark
@@AhnaldT101 I think the Threepio&Chewie in the 3rd slot while Chewbacca in the second slot means that the AI will apply Guard first, THEN the stat bonuses will apply after including to CLS. So the only difference will be who gets guard. Obviously I don't know how to test that for sure without seeing what the numbers are but I'm fairly certain it doesn't weaken the overall stats for the Rebel team.
@@delouisterlongejr.3763 yeah im almost certain thats the case. chewi checks for the weakest, applys mark then chewpo shares stats. or chewpo shares stats and then chewi checks for the weakest, so someone else will get the guard(only if someone else is weaker ofc). you could check that with their dmg just do the cls basic a few times with chewpo in second place and a few times with him in third place you should see the same amount of dmg dealt
I’ve always had a suspicion that it’s attack animation time. Looks like whoever’s attack hits the enemy first gets the deathmark. So by putting Sun Fac or Geo Soldier in the back it makes their attack take longer to hit the enemy
It's even worse when you learn that different abilities have different effect speeds. For example, Grevious' basic is faster than his last special. You can see this with B1 and him together, where B1's basic will hit first if you use the special, but Grevious will hit first if you use the basic. Very helpful for gaining Separatist Loyalty or whatever its called in DS Geo TB. Edit: I clearly typed this without watching the video first.
You are always great ahnald but havent been watching your videos for awhile because of all the disney content in this game lately... i enjoyed and was quite interested in this video tho, good work!
Clones seem to be the most inconsistent team to try and predict. Ran 501st with Shak, Rex, Arc, Fives, and Echo in that order. Whoever got the deathmark seemed to be determined by who I fed the turn meter to at first. If I fed the turn to rex with the swarm he got deathmarked, if I fed it to echo then echo got deathmarked. So I tried feeding the turn to arc and it got inconsistent. I targeted R2 every time and fed the turn meter to arc every time, and the death mark kept going on either rex or echo, but it was random. Sometimes Rex got it, sometimes echo got it, always fed turn to arc and always targeted R2. Clones don't play by the rules.
In order for animation speed to matter - then it matters when the target character is HIT by the attacks. So a possible explanation for the wonky behavior with Shaak Ti is that there is this whole extra variable that hasn’t been considered - which enemy is being targeted and the distance between that enemy and each of your own characters, not just their slots
Personally, I think the "rules" are: 1. animation speed 2. If the speed matches, whoever is closer to the target enemy (so basically how you place your characters in the your squad) Example: fives didnt get the death mar because he had a nearly equal animation speed with echo, but he was further from the target. I didnt test it since I dont have a 501st squad, but thats how I place my NS. Zombie as close as possible, since daka has a fix animation time, no matter where I put her. Just like in the case of the rebel team, chewie had a faster animation no matter where he was. He was outrunning 3pio and chewie who had a slow "attack speed".
That moment where you can’t tell if this is an elaborate “who’s on first?” Story. Jk it’s a very informative video as always Ahnald, as well as being entertaining to watch.
I always wondered this myself because in my Rebel squad, Legendary Chewbacca attacks WAY faster than Chewpio. So i have Chewie up front to inflict Tenacity down first which will make Chewpio's evasion down debuff easier to land.
Maybe Echo and Fives are switching the deathmark because, at least to me, their animations seem to be about the same, their blaster bolt has less distance to go to get to Poe. That's what it looks like to me anyway.
What it looks like is happing to me, is as we thought characters are activited based on there spot order 1 through 5 but then it is all down to how quickly a character gets to the "damage application" part of there animation. the fives echo one is a bit odd that could use some more testing
Ahnald, I think the 'tie' is broken by the distance they have to cover - in the fives/echo example, assuming both characters have equal animation speeds, you can see that fives was closer to the target in the first instance, and echo was closer to the target in the second instance - and that corresponds to the deathmark. This also corresponds with the chewie example. Maybe try targeting RHF instead. that's why I always put soldier and fac in the top row in geo TB, and poggle in the bottom row, just to ensure that everything WAI
this is exactly it, I've tested when they have 6 on the other side so it's clearer, if you go for far left or far right character you can get different results.
In theory if you wanted to find out who would go after jolee, you could just take him off the team and do the same thing with the remaining toons. That should indicate who the next fastest character is.
THANK YOU so much for this amazing video Grand Admiral!!! So Happy the community might finally figure out exactly wtf is going on with all this!! In regards to CLS: It might be a slight misnomer to say it makes your CLS team "STRONGER" by moving Chewpio. I don't think CLS just suddenly loses the bonuses from Chewpio if you move him later in the lineup. It just changes the order of determination as to who is weakest FIRST, establish the guard, and THEN the bonuses are still applied. If anything, moving the guard to Embo (or anyone else) might hypothetically make your team weaker, as you might likely want to guard CLS over others, given the choice. But CLS should still get all the bonuses from Chewpio either way, he would just get them AFTER Chewie establishes the guard first, if you swap spots. But simply knowing that you can manipulate who gets the guard at all, just by moving Chewpio around, is massive!! The implications of that are wide reaching indeed! Really appreciate all this great information and testing on this subject!!
I wish they would make Bib Fortuna and have him be a Mon Mothma type Scoundrel leader. He's such an iconic character and he's popping up in canon A LOT
I've wondered how this impacts FO lineups with the Hux mass assist and KRU's tenacity down and I couldn't find anything more insightful than Bulldog's video. Thanks for the testing that I'm not able to do on my account yet, GA!! (PS hitting level 85 today)
So, I'm going to throw this out there: It's likely not "animation speed" so much as it is "hit frame" - Games handle attacks via 2 separate mechanics, the attack animation, and the attack frames. This is most widely known from stuff like Fighting Games, where frame data is very widely known and analyzed. This is why in many games there's parts of attacks that do zero damage despite looking like they should, or parts of attacks that deal damage despite nothing actually occurring that should. This is because "hit frames", "attack frames", whatever you want to call them, are often NOT the same as the animation frames. For swgoh, this would likely be a very specific frame set on each attack that's augmented by distance, that would "trigger" the effects of the attack. This leaves 2 questions though. WHEN does this trigger - Is it an arbitrary straight line, so distance from character to character doesn't matter and you're basically looking at a specific pixel, or does character to character distance matter and targeting someone on the left or right could theoretically change attack order? and WHEN in each animation does the "attack" trigger? These are both relatively simple to analyze using frame by frame analysis, albeit it would take a while to make a useful compendium. IF someone is going to test this, test the first one first. It's MUCH easier, as it exclusively can be done with one character - Do basically this same test, but target each different enemy and do a frame analysis to determine if the frames for multiple attacks and/or characters are largely identical regardless of target - Preferably using a character that's already on a flank - For example "does vader's saber throw always trigger on the same frame regardless of which character I'm targeting, and what's the difference in frames depending on vader's position if so." Then, I would follow up said testing with mass assist testing frame analysis in order to try and get a decent sample size of how individual attack's damage numbers popping up compare with getting deathmark/etc. - To help make sure there's no wonky behind-the-scenes stuff that makes analyzing the frame data harder/nigh impossible without tools. And then lastly would take the findings from all of those to just go through every single character in the game and figure out the frame data for them. Which could then be thrown into an actually useful "tool" to optimize team placement for any set of characters in the game. Alternatively, this is "probably" something that's also able to be datamined, but honestly I'd figure we would've had the info by now if it was that simple.
Obviously it is whoever attacks first. WHO attacks first is literally the question here. And that is completely untrue about saber vs blaster. There are several instances where the animation takes a fraction of a second for the character to even fire. Jedi like jolee would land well before many of them because he has no delay. Ahnald (and you in your defense as you are implying animation speed) does seem to be correct in that the animation speeds is what determines the first attack though. Shaak ti didn't disprove that as he didn't account for the DISTANCE to the target. Had he selected a different target, he would have seen that Echo wouldn't have gotten the death mark.
Also about the Fives sacrifice thing, the reason why you want him to be in the 5th slot is because if multiple 501st clones die at the same time, and if he all clones are placed in front of him, then the game will count his death as last, therefore he will sacrifice and give his stats to all the clones who were placed in front of him. If any 501st clone is placed behind Fives and they die the same time as Fives, then Fives's death will count before the clone that was placed after him in the slot position, in other words Fives will not sacrifce himself for that clone, which means the rest of the clones will not get any stat bonuses.
I’ve been trying to tell my guild that this was an actual thing with certain teams and they didn’t believe me! I know they almost all watch you now after I put your videos in the discord!!!!!
Of course it's based on animation. I've used NS from day 1 and the Spirit always hits last because its animation is so slow. In the case of when the animation hits, maybe team order does matter. I've always placed team order to make clicking easier. It's hard to target Yoda when he's hiding behind GK.
is the chewie / chewpio really indicative of a weaker team overall or is chewies unique just procing before Chewpio's has a chance to. meaning it decides who gets the protection before the buffs are still assigned?
On my cls team, I have them modded so 3pac gets guard as long as he is after chewie. This allows him to double attack on his turn since he does a basic and assists off the chewie attack. If I put him before chewie, cls gets guard and I lose a bit of damage on my team
But is better if geonosian soldier attack first since sunfac basic doesn't dispel foresight. For example against a yoda is better if soldier clear the foresight giving to sunfac the opportunity to clear all the other buffs than sunfac attacking first and instead of cleaning all the buffs only soldier applying tenacity down geonosian
13:52 wait a minute, i tried this exact line up more than 20 times (in the same exact positions) and Echo is getting death mark instead of Fives... honestly the devs have to say something about this, now it isn't an order of character problem, how it is possible that different account doing the same are getting different results?
Ahnnald!!! Quick Question I’d Really Appreciate A Response Coincidentally Enough!!! Your F2P Account First Order Is Just About As Deep In As Mine Now I Have 2 More G12 But Far Off G13 And All Seven Star My Question Being At This Point How Long (Playing Everyday) Until You See Yourself Getting SLKR Roughly? LEGENED!!!!! Your Ships Are Ahead Of Mine Already Tho Lol I Fucking Hate Ship Grind Gdamn
i think alot of the time, the true factor is this: BLASTERS HIT FASTER THAN MELEE WEAPONS!!!! damage is only ever applied after the projectile or item has visibly struck the target, so people with blasters or ranged weapons can hit way sooner, because they don't have to spend animation time running up to the enemy to whack them. of course, blasters still sometimes take up animation time, for example, Zam Wessle, Embo, Mando, Cody, most of the imperial officers, and ewok scout. (scout uses a bow, but still, ranged weapon). truly, hitting first is about whose animation is fastest.
I thought you wanted CLS to get the guard? And in the CLS team, Chewie giving guard wouldn't lock CLS stats after getting it so even if he gives guard 1st, CLS should then still get the stats when 3bacca goes and actives his unique, right?
Hey, Ahnald. You said you couldn't really test who goes 2nd, 3rd, 4th or last, but couldn't you just do your test, remove whoever goes fastest and repeat to figure it out? For example with Jedi Revan: Test 1: (JKR, Bastilla, Hermit Yoda, Jolee, GMY) Winner: Jolee Test 2: (JKR, Bastilla, Hermit Yoda, GMY) This way you can find out who has the faster animations/turn order
I notice you always targeted Finn. What if you targeted a character near the top of the screen? Proximity to the target should theoretically be important if it is about animation speed.
What should be the best placement for Ewok team for Protocol C3po event? Currently I have Chief(lead);elder, Wicket, Logray, Paploo. Is that the best configuration?
One of your conclusions is backwards. The CLS team is actually the opposite of what you said. You always want Chewie *before* 3pac. 3pac gives the same buffs to the entire team no matter what. It just messes with who gets guard if you place 3pac first. It’s not like CLS doesn’t get buffs if chewie is #2 or anything.
For the Chewie/Chewpio thing, I don't think it actually affects the overall strength of the team. It's just that with Chewbacca in the 2nd slot, his unique activates before Chewpio gives stats to CLS, so CLS is the weakest character at the moment of activation. However, I'm pretty sure he still gets the same stats afterwards when Chewpio's unique activates, making Embo the new weakest character, but Chewie's unique had already activated, giving CLS guard. So really, I think the only time this would matter is if you're using Chewie and Chewpio on a team that isn't a full rebel team and you want guard on the weakest rebel instead.
Wait why would the cls team get less stats, chewy guards the weakest first but chewpio still does the stat manipulation... When embo gets guard he just isn't a rebel. Either way the rebel team will have juiced up stats, it's it's just a matter of embo being considered weaker or stronger first. Also rebel lineup typically only includes rebels so you'll never have an issue no?
Ahnald - Shaak Ti does NOT disprove your animation speed theory. You did not account for the DISTANCE to the target. Had you selected a different target, you would have seen that echo doesn't get the death mark. I 100% believe it is entirely based on animation speeds strictly because of this.
I'm so excited for them to rework Windu because of the JMK...or so I hope. I'm one of those people that actually thought Windu was good because he was 85... he was my third relic... 🤮
I always throw Bastila Shan in the second slot for my JKR team. Once it's here, hit GMY with buffs and then he spread them around, usually kicks back over to JKR and a Mass Assist is done with a buffed team (ha pun).
Disclaimer: What I am about to say is purely guess work. After playing several games that have mods, team order placement and base/modded speeds of characters. Wouldn’t it be viable to think that placement order has to do with; 1. How the ai interacts both friendly and enemy. 2. If the base speed of the character is higher then it goes first IF in the 2nd or 3rd slot, if put 4th or 5th you are essentially telling the game ai that the 4th and 5th characters aren’t not as important. All speculation. Let me know what you all think. Cheers :)
Actually in a cls team, if chewie is 2nd he will give guard to the weakest ally then 3pio 3rd will share stats. With normal modding chewie 2nd and 3pio 3rd could give 3pio guard and 3pio 2nd and chewie 3rd guarantees cls guard. It’s not making you rebels weaker… Also jolee 2nd in jkr is there in case him and someone else get killed and trigger savior he will get revived, won’t matter most of the time. And if you want to know the rest of turn order just run indersized squad while removing first attacker
So with clones, no matter what placement I have them in if echo and 555s are in the same row, my echo gets death mark. If they're in the front row together, echo gets death mark. The only thing that makes a difference for me is if Echo is in the back row and Fives is front row, then Fives gets death mark. So it looks like the way it's works is: processing power of mobile device>distance to opponents=attack speed animation>general placement in squad.
In the geos case does is even matter? For what I remember tenacy down can't be resisted so it shouldn't matter who hits first between sun fac and soldier
Now this may be just some dumb idea however what if it is animation related. You always targeted Poe so you have a standard variable. The distance to him from other positions is farther away. Maybe that's why whoever was in 5th got deathmark first. Same attack animation but less distance. Idk, just an idea
For me character placement is a different story, I put them in slots where I can see their animations better for example mando I put him in the second slot so I can see it better even though I have seen it millions of times, and another example is the bad batch, I put echo in the first slot so I can see the never any doubt ability better, and put tech in the fourth slot so I can see him roll that sweet detonator down
I’ll be honest, that’s how I play most of the time. I want the character with the prettier polygons closer to me for a better view!
@@AhnaldT101 for me i put the character i call to assist the most (yoda) in the second slot then it doesn't matter.
i always put my tank in the second slot. dunno why, just always have. then my main damage dealer or second tank in 3rd. support in 4, and healer/second support in 5
@@AhnaldT101 I think I figured it out. How it works is the order works is sun fac is faster than geo soldier but they are around the same speed so I guess it's based on speed and then placement because geo is a head sun because its placement i guess because of the similar speed. I dunno its just my idea you don't need to listen to me I'm not that smart
I place in order which is easiest to assist and see. When using Phoenix team, I had zeb in fourth slot with chopper in fifth so it's was easier to click on them meanwhile having ezra in the third because I won't be clicking on him as much. So it's kind of a tall characters on the left side while shorter characters are closer to the screen.
0:00 neon green my favourite
PS I didn’t know that the empire had technical problems 😬
TH-cam tampering our glorious intro....
@@AhnaldT101 I blame it on rebel spy’s
@@AhnaldT101 youtube or garry?
@@billkk6915 Both!, They’re Conspiring against the Empire!
@@AhnaldT101 nah.. Night vision. We gotta be sneaky so CG don’t see this
Jolee is in the second slot so that if more than one Jedi dies at the same time he is more likely to be revived by Saviour.
This is what I came here to say.
Yeah it will always trigger on him if Revan doesn't die as well. But if Revan dies too, then savior will save him instead.
@@obitouchiha4739 Yup. That's why I said more likely rather than always.
@@paraicmchugh5468 I see
thats interesting
The only time I really worry about team placement is where GMY is, his hit box is so small I sometimes call the wrong person to assist
Same hahah
Loll same
Same
Always him in 3rd or 4th
ME TOO!!!
Jolee being in the 2nd slot isn't because people want him to attack first, it's mainly because if multiple people die (except Revan) at the same time the savior unique will trigger on the character who is in the 2nd slot before the 3rd, 4th and 5th, so basically it keeps your Jolee alive to revive the others, but ofcourse if Revan also dies with them, then savior will always trigger on him because he is in the 1st slot.
This! And the same thing applies for Nighsisters..you want Daka to come back if more than 3 dies at once
Also keeps 5555s in the 5th slot, so he “dies last” if an AoE kills multiple clones
This might be 2 years old, but I somehow missed this video back then and just saw it. Been blowing my mind and this bit about Savior mechanics has as well. Cheers!
I’ve only really cared about placement with Geos, so it’s good to know that it wasn’t completely a myth
The easiest way to see animations speeds is to see when they return to their original spots. Notice how Sun Fac and Geo Soldier's animation has them standing and shooting with the same exact animation (resulting in a tie).
With Jolee, it's super easy to see he's first to return to his home position.
You can also use this to see who goes second, third, etc. Just look at the order in which they return to their home position
10:53 People say put Jolee Daka in the second slot not for them to go first, but for them to revive first in case of a massive aoe
Thank you GA! My guild doesn’t do Wat until phase 4, so this is perfect timing!
Good luck it really does help my geos are trash and always beat the wat mission at 90k power
@@jgadventures4161 mine are just under 86 and I have beat it the last 3 months. We used the theory that they assist in the order you place them, so what Ahnald found doesn’t change anything bc we had Sun Fac above Soldier already.
To see who attacks second you could use a mass assist on a character with foresight so the first character misses and the second one gets the deathmark
Yeah mass assist JTR will do the trick
Once you figure out which character goes first, remove that character, run the 4 remaining characters. Rinse and repeat.
This is actually so helpful so I can get the Guard on 3pac rather than C-3PO!
I am glad that you have consistent evidence. Some people just say, "trust this is way it is". This way you are proving what you say. Great job.
In the case of the Chewies is easier to understand what's going on with the assists, you can clearly see that Og Chewie shoots faster, so he's getting the deathmark
Yeah I’m 98% certain animation speeds what makes the difference in attack order
@@AhnaldT101 I think the Threepio&Chewie in the 3rd slot while Chewbacca in the second slot means that the AI will apply Guard first, THEN the stat bonuses will apply after including to CLS. So the only difference will be who gets guard. Obviously I don't know how to test that for sure without seeing what the numbers are but I'm fairly certain it doesn't weaken the overall stats for the Rebel team.
@@delouisterlongejr.3763 yeah im almost certain thats the case. chewi checks for the weakest, applys mark then chewpo shares stats. or chewpo shares stats and then chewi checks for the weakest, so someone else will get the guard(only if someone else is weaker ofc).
you could check that with their dmg just do the cls basic a few times with chewpo in second place and a few times with him in third place you should see the same amount of dmg dealt
@@delouisterlongejr.3763 yep this is the case. if you went r2 chewpio then chewie it would put number crunch in first, then chewpio unique then guard
I’ve always had a suspicion that it’s attack animation time. Looks like whoever’s attack hits the enemy first gets the deathmark. So by putting Sun Fac or Geo Soldier in the back it makes their attack take longer to hit the enemy
we all missed you GA, was looking forward to your next video
Its been a busy weekend! Two days is too long without a video or stream with you guys!
@@AhnaldT101 take your time :)
I remember MG spending a day on stream trying to figure this out
MG is the OG
Legend
Did not know about this at all! Just changed my geo squad around and got 7 star padme (finally) thanks 🙏
I never knew that operated like that. Thanks!
It's even worse when you learn that different abilities have different effect speeds. For example, Grevious' basic is faster than his last special. You can see this with B1 and him together, where B1's basic will hit first if you use the special, but Grevious will hit first if you use the basic. Very helpful for gaining Separatist Loyalty or whatever its called in DS Geo TB.
Edit: I clearly typed this without watching the video first.
You are always great ahnald but havent been watching your videos for awhile because of all the disney content in this game lately... i enjoyed and was quite interested in this video tho, good work!
Clones seem to be the most inconsistent team to try and predict. Ran 501st with Shak, Rex, Arc, Fives, and Echo in that order. Whoever got the deathmark seemed to be determined by who I fed the turn meter to at first. If I fed the turn to rex with the swarm he got deathmarked, if I fed it to echo then echo got deathmarked. So I tried feeding the turn to arc and it got inconsistent. I targeted R2 every time and fed the turn meter to arc every time, and the death mark kept going on either rex or echo, but it was random. Sometimes Rex got it, sometimes echo got it, always fed turn to arc and always targeted R2. Clones don't play by the rules.
In order for animation speed to matter - then it matters when the target character is HIT by the attacks. So a possible explanation for the wonky behavior with Shaak Ti is that there is this whole extra variable that hasn’t been considered - which enemy is being targeted and the distance between that enemy and each of your own characters, not just their slots
Personally, I think the "rules" are:
1. animation speed
2. If the speed matches, whoever is closer to the target enemy (so basically how you place your characters in the your squad)
Example: fives didnt get the death mar because he had a nearly equal animation speed with echo, but he was further from the target. I didnt test it since I dont have a 501st squad, but thats how I place my NS. Zombie as close as possible, since daka has a fix animation time, no matter where I put her. Just like in the case of the rebel team, chewie had a faster animation no matter where he was. He was outrunning 3pio and chewie who had a slow "attack speed".
That moment where you can’t tell if this is an elaborate “who’s on first?” Story. Jk it’s a very informative video as always Ahnald, as well as being entertaining to watch.
I always wondered this myself because in my Rebel squad, Legendary Chewbacca attacks WAY faster than Chewpio. So i have Chewie up front to inflict Tenacity down first which will make Chewpio's evasion down debuff easier to land.
That's some thorough investigation!
Me: watches video
Also me: immediately goes to change my geo team placement
Maybe Echo and Fives are switching the deathmark because, at least to me, their animations seem to be about the same, their blaster bolt has less distance to go to get to Poe. That's what it looks like to me anyway.
What it looks like is happing to me, is as we thought characters are activited based on there spot order 1 through 5 but then it is all down to how quickly a character gets to the "damage application" part of there animation. the fives echo one is a bit odd that could use some more testing
0:00 A reference to the Return of the Jedi poster!)
Ahnald, I think the 'tie' is broken by the distance they have to cover - in the fives/echo example, assuming both characters have equal animation speeds, you can see that fives was closer to the target in the first instance, and echo was closer to the target in the second instance - and that corresponds to the deathmark. This also corresponds with the chewie example. Maybe try targeting RHF instead.
that's why I always put soldier and fac in the top row in geo TB, and poggle in the bottom row, just to ensure that everything WAI
Thats what I though as well
what does WAI mean?
@@alucard374 Works as intended
this is exactly it, I've tested when they have 6 on the other side so it's clearer, if you go for far left or far right character you can get different results.
In theory if you wanted to find out who would go after jolee, you could just take him off the team and do the same thing with the remaining toons. That should indicate who the next fastest character is.
THANK YOU so much for this amazing video Grand Admiral!!! So Happy the community might finally figure out exactly wtf is going on with all this!!
In regards to CLS: It might be a slight misnomer to say it makes your CLS team "STRONGER" by moving Chewpio. I don't think CLS just suddenly loses the bonuses from Chewpio if you move him later in the lineup. It just changes the order of determination as to who is weakest FIRST, establish the guard, and THEN the bonuses are still applied. If anything, moving the guard to Embo (or anyone else) might hypothetically make your team weaker, as you might likely want to guard CLS over others, given the choice. But CLS should still get all the bonuses from Chewpio either way, he would just get them AFTER Chewie establishes the guard first, if you swap spots. But simply knowing that you can manipulate who gets the guard at all, just by moving Chewpio around, is massive!! The implications of that are wide reaching indeed! Really appreciate all this great information and testing on this subject!!
To see who goes second: Just remove Jolee and go in with 4 toons. Then remove whoever was next and go in with 3.
I wish they would make Bib Fortuna and have him be a Mon Mothma type Scoundrel leader. He's such an iconic character and he's popping up in canon A LOT
After this geo tb I'll have unlocked wat tambor and the malevolence and I'm only at 2 mil gp!!!
I just set my short characters to be on the right hand side so I can choose them easily
I've wondered how this impacts FO lineups with the Hux mass assist and KRU's tenacity down and I couldn't find anything more insightful than Bulldog's video. Thanks for the testing that I'm not able to do on my account yet, GA!! (PS hitting level 85 today)
I knew I wasn’t crazy. Thanks for clearing this up Grand Admiral
So, I'm going to throw this out there: It's likely not "animation speed" so much as it is "hit frame"
- Games handle attacks via 2 separate mechanics, the attack animation, and the attack frames. This is most widely known from stuff like Fighting Games, where frame data is very widely known and analyzed. This is why in many games there's parts of attacks that do zero damage despite looking like they should, or parts of attacks that deal damage despite nothing actually occurring that should.
This is because "hit frames", "attack frames", whatever you want to call them, are often NOT the same as the animation frames.
For swgoh, this would likely be a very specific frame set on each attack that's augmented by distance, that would "trigger" the effects of the attack.
This leaves 2 questions though.
WHEN does this trigger - Is it an arbitrary straight line, so distance from character to character doesn't matter and you're basically looking at a specific pixel, or does character to character distance matter and targeting someone on the left or right could theoretically change attack order?
and
WHEN in each animation does the "attack" trigger?
These are both relatively simple to analyze using frame by frame analysis, albeit it would take a while to make a useful compendium.
IF someone is going to test this, test the first one first. It's MUCH easier, as it exclusively can be done with one character - Do basically this same test, but target each different enemy and do a frame analysis to determine if the frames for multiple attacks and/or characters are largely identical regardless of target - Preferably using a character that's already on a flank - For example "does vader's saber throw always trigger on the same frame regardless of which character I'm targeting, and what's the difference in frames depending on vader's position if so."
Then, I would follow up said testing with mass assist testing frame analysis in order to try and get a decent sample size of how individual attack's damage numbers popping up compare with getting deathmark/etc. - To help make sure there's no wonky behind-the-scenes stuff that makes analyzing the frame data harder/nigh impossible without tools.
And then lastly would take the findings from all of those to just go through every single character in the game and figure out the frame data for them.
Which could then be thrown into an actually useful "tool" to optimize team placement for any set of characters in the game.
Alternatively, this is "probably" something that's also able to be datamined, but honestly I'd figure we would've had the info by now if it was that simple.
I hit the "Like" button cause you are doing a great job.
bruh I tried to move your webcam during the battles 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The last time I was this early everyone was still alive. The women and the children too
Nice video grand admiral! Good update from mobile gamer’s video on placement 2 years ago. Hail to the empire!
Jolee is put in the second slot for savior i thought, kinda like old daka in slot 2/3 for the zombie revive in case of mass AoE killing your team
Ahnald I tip my cap to you. You are an amazing man and please keep making videos they make everyone’s day
I never even thought about animation speed
I think the enemy placement is also a factor. Character on the left will be quicker hitting enemies on the right and vice versa
It worked with me changing characters placement with the Ewoks to get C3PO
I believe its whoever attack arrives first, IE: A ranged characters blaster bolt will arrive quicker than a character with a lightsaber
Obviously it is whoever attacks first. WHO attacks first is literally the question here.
And that is completely untrue about saber vs blaster. There are several instances where the animation takes a fraction of a second for the character to even fire. Jedi like jolee would land well before many of them because he has no delay.
Ahnald (and you in your defense as you are implying animation speed) does seem to be correct in that the animation speeds is what determines the first attack though. Shaak ti didn't disprove that as he didn't account for the DISTANCE to the target. Had he selected a different target, he would have seen that Echo wouldn't have gotten the death mark.
the first toon that got back to his place got the deathmark aka the first toon thats animation ended first got the deathmark.
Also about the Fives sacrifice thing, the reason why you want him to be in the 5th slot is because if multiple 501st clones die at the same time, and if he all clones are placed in front of him, then the game will count his death as last, therefore he will sacrifice and give his stats to all the clones who were placed in front of him. If any 501st clone is placed behind Fives and they die the same time as Fives, then Fives's death will count before the clone that was placed after him in the slot position, in other words Fives will not sacrifce himself for that clone, which means the rest of the clones will not get any stat bonuses.
I remember the stream were we tried to analyze this
I’ve been trying to tell my guild that this was an actual thing with certain teams and they didn’t believe me! I know they almost all watch you now after I put your videos in the discord!!!!!
The deciding factor seems to be when their hit actually connects. But, I'm not sure if that applies in every case.
I heard this from Lólindir but I didn't trust him, I thought that it was a joke.
ok so i’m confused, isn’t it better to have cls with guard? and if chewyPO goes after chewbacca does cls not get the added stats?
Great, now they’re gonna start charging tickets for the galactic challenges to shut down testing.
Of course it's based on animation. I've used NS from day 1 and the Spirit always hits last because its animation is so slow. In the case of when the animation hits, maybe team order does matter.
I've always placed team order to make clicking easier. It's hard to target Yoda when he's hiding behind GK.
is the chewie / chewpio really indicative of a weaker team overall or is chewies unique just procing before Chewpio's has a chance to. meaning it decides who gets the protection before the buffs are still assigned?
Was wondering why my life was so empty then u uploaded a vid :O
Ahnaldt101 my new favorite TH-camr.
My ally code in this game is 857-464-697
I’ve come back after so long. What’s happened in SWGOH so far?
GL Kenobi
Galactic Legends in general, Unaligned Force User and Mandalorian tag, Conquest, it really depends on how far back you're taking about
I never considered it. Only with Yoda, so I can select him easier since his small
On my cls team, I have them modded so 3pac gets guard as long as he is after chewie. This allows him to double attack on his turn since he does a basic and assists off the chewie attack. If I put him before chewie, cls gets guard and I lose a bit of damage on my team
I'm using my Geonosians as my arena team, and this video helped me so much! Thank you Grand Admiral!
For me it was always pretty clear that the animation mattered bc I noticed it with jkr in this gc. Guess I was wrong though! xD
How should I place my Phoenix team?
But is better if geonosian soldier attack first since sunfac basic doesn't dispel foresight. For example against a yoda is better if soldier clear the foresight giving to sunfac the opportunity to clear all the other buffs than sunfac attacking first and instead of cleaning all the buffs only soldier applying tenacity down geonosian
Tenacity down is a lot more useful with Geo most of the time. You also need soldier to crit the opponent to gain turn meter.
Unrelated question but why is your GMY faster than JKR?
Playing it back at .25x speed around 10:07 it looks like it might be whoever finishes the animation first
13:52 wait a minute, i tried this exact line up more than 20 times (in the same exact positions) and Echo is getting death mark instead of Fives... honestly the devs have to say something about this, now it isn't an order of character problem, how it is possible that different account doing the same are getting different results?
did you try to change their speeds with mods?
@@TheRolemodel1337 No mods doesn't affect anything other than stats.
Did you target the same enemy?
I'm pretty convinced at this point that character to character distance matters.
Just target the same character as Ahnald, and you'll get the same result.
@@AtomicArtumas Yes, you are correct.
The freak out at 13:15 made me laugh pretty loud I had Coke come out my nose
Cocaina?
Great info. I do say it alot too. Sun Fac always second removes buffs on basic. This crazy theory.
Ahnnald!!! Quick Question I’d Really Appreciate A Response
Coincidentally Enough!!! Your F2P Account First Order Is Just About As Deep In As Mine Now I Have 2 More G12 But Far Off G13 And All Seven Star
My Question Being At This Point How Long (Playing Everyday) Until You See Yourself Getting SLKR Roughly? LEGENED!!!!! Your Ships Are Ahead Of Mine Already Tho Lol I Fucking Hate Ship Grind Gdamn
i think alot of the time, the true factor is this: BLASTERS HIT FASTER THAN MELEE WEAPONS!!!!
damage is only ever applied after the projectile or item has visibly struck the target, so people with blasters or ranged weapons can hit way sooner, because they don't have to spend animation time running up to the enemy to whack them. of course, blasters still sometimes take up animation time, for example, Zam Wessle, Embo, Mando, Cody, most of the imperial officers, and ewok scout. (scout uses a bow, but still, ranged weapon). truly, hitting first is about whose animation is fastest.
I thought you wanted CLS to get the guard? And in the CLS team, Chewie giving guard wouldn't lock CLS stats after getting it so even if he gives guard 1st, CLS should then still get the stats when 3bacca goes and actives his unique, right?
Yes, he will still spread the stats
Hey, Ahnald. You said you couldn't really test who goes 2nd, 3rd, 4th or last, but couldn't you just do your test, remove whoever goes fastest and repeat to figure it out?
For example with Jedi Revan:
Test 1: (JKR, Bastilla, Hermit Yoda, Jolee, GMY) Winner: Jolee
Test 2: (JKR, Bastilla, Hermit Yoda, GMY)
This way you can find out who has the faster animations/turn order
I notice you always targeted Finn. What if you targeted a character near the top of the screen? Proximity to the target should theoretically be important if it is about animation speed.
The developer of ShaakTi probably implemented the loop "the other way around". Means for(int i=4; i>0; i--) instead of for(int i=1; i
Hey what’s the best way to ask Ahnald a question?
Grand Admiral, always a wonderful day to be in the EMPIRE!
Hello
Darth Nihilus BROTHER
What are going to do??? Now there are 2 of them!
What should be the best placement for Ewok team for Protocol C3po event? Currently I have Chief(lead);elder, Wicket, Logray, Paploo. Is that the best configuration?
One of your conclusions is backwards. The CLS team is actually the opposite of what you said. You always want Chewie *before* 3pac. 3pac gives the same buffs to the entire team no matter what. It just messes with who gets guard if you place 3pac first. It’s not like CLS doesn’t get buffs if chewie is #2 or anything.
For the Chewie/Chewpio thing, I don't think it actually affects the overall strength of the team. It's just that with Chewbacca in the 2nd slot, his unique activates before Chewpio gives stats to CLS, so CLS is the weakest character at the moment of activation. However, I'm pretty sure he still gets the same stats afterwards when Chewpio's unique activates, making Embo the new weakest character, but Chewie's unique had already activated, giving CLS guard. So really, I think the only time this would matter is if you're using Chewie and Chewpio on a team that isn't a full rebel team and you want guard on the weakest rebel instead.
Wait why would the cls team get less stats, chewy guards the weakest first but chewpio still does the stat manipulation... When embo gets guard he just isn't a rebel. Either way the rebel team will have juiced up stats, it's it's just a matter of embo being considered weaker or stronger first. Also rebel lineup typically only includes rebels so you'll never have an issue no?
Ahnald - Shaak Ti does NOT disprove your animation speed theory. You did not account for the DISTANCE to the target. Had you selected a different target, you would have seen that echo doesn't get the death mark. I 100% believe it is entirely based on animation speeds strictly because of this.
Our Grand Admiral has ridiculous amounts of free time as it seems, hahaha.
I'm so excited for them to rework Windu because of the JMK...or so I hope. I'm one of those people that actually thought Windu was good because he was 85... he was my third relic... 🤮
I always throw Bastila Shan in the second slot for my JKR team. Once it's here, hit GMY with buffs and then he spread them around, usually kicks back over to JKR and a Mass Assist is done with a buffed team (ha pun).
Disclaimer: What I am about to say is purely guess work.
After playing several games that have mods, team order placement and base/modded speeds of characters.
Wouldn’t it be viable to think that placement order has to do with;
1. How the ai interacts both friendly and enemy.
2. If the base speed of the character is higher then it goes first IF in the 2nd or 3rd slot, if put 4th or 5th you are essentially telling the game ai that the 4th and 5th characters aren’t not as important.
All speculation. Let me know what you all think. Cheers :)
what the f... a 8.5m gp whale doesn't gives zeta to Brood. WHAT? whats the reason?
Actually in a cls team, if chewie is 2nd he will give guard to the weakest ally then 3pio 3rd will share stats. With normal modding chewie 2nd and 3pio 3rd could give 3pio guard and 3pio 2nd and chewie 3rd guarantees cls guard.
It’s not making you rebels weaker…
Also jolee 2nd in jkr is there in case him and someone else get killed and trigger savior he will get revived, won’t matter most of the time.
And if you want to know the rest of turn order just run indersized squad while removing first attacker
i’m confused and i understand at the same time
So with clones, no matter what placement I have them in if echo and 555s are in the same row, my echo gets death mark. If they're in the front row together, echo gets death mark. The only thing that makes a difference for me is if Echo is in the back row and Fives is front row, then Fives gets death mark.
So it looks like the way it's works is: processing power of mobile device>distance to opponents=attack speed animation>general placement in squad.
Star Wars: Galaxy of Guessing
In the geos case does is even matter? For what I remember tenacy down can't be resisted so it shouldn't matter who hits first between sun fac and soldier
Now this may be just some dumb idea however what if it is animation related. You always targeted Poe so you have a standard variable. The distance to him from other positions is farther away. Maybe that's why whoever was in 5th got deathmark first. Same attack animation but less distance. Idk, just an idea
bought crystals and took Geo Brood Alpha from 5 * to 10 shards short of 7 * during this cantina double drops event!
LOVE LIVE THE EMPIRE!
Yeah, I watch Xaereth, too.