Richard Rohr - The Cosmic Christ (The Liturgists Podcast)
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Richard Rohr - The Cosmic Christ (The Liturgists Podcast 2016)
Credits: The Liturgists Podcast - www.theliturgis...
Richard Rohr Website: cac.org
Science Mike and Michael Gungor talk mysticism and the Cosmic Christ with Richard Rohr.
Fr. Richard Rohr is a globally recognized ecumenical teacher bearing witness to the universal awakening within Christian mysticism and the Perennial Tradition. He is a Franciscan priest of the New Mexico Province and founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Fr. Richard’s teaching is grounded in the Franciscan alternative orthodoxy-practices of contemplation and self-emptying, expressing itself in radical compassion, particularly for the socially marginalized.
Fr. Richard is the author of numerous books, including Everything Belongs, Adam’s Return, The Naked Now, Breathing Under Water, Falling Upward, Immortal Diamond, and Eager to Love: The Alternative Way of Francis of Assisi. His newest book is The Divine Dance: The Trinity and Your Transformation (with Mike Morrell).
Fr. Richard is academic Dean of the Living School for Action and Contemplation. Drawing upon Christianity’s place within the Perennial Tradition, the mission of the Living School is to produce compassionate and powerfully learned individuals who will work for positive change in the world based on awareness of our common union with God and all beings.
This was fowarded to me by a highly respected minister friend of mine from Evangel University. We share things with each other that inspires us. It's helpful because we are both not easily excitable. It's one thing being educated, it's quite another to be transformed. We are all addicted to our way of thinking, which it's why it's so difficult to change, or even challenge. God cannot be known, he can only be loved, and in that loving, we begin to know him. It's only by living and through loving that we can even begin to know him, and that can only happen in a relationship oriented approach to God. In the same way, it's only by our love that people can see the God in us, and through us. Just sayin.
May i share with you the research of Danny Wilten. He too has a video titled "cosmic christ" here on you tube.
I want to thank you for posting this talk with Richard Rohr. I am just discovering his teachings, and they are helping me immensely in my attempt to rebuild my internal spiritual life.
Like a lot of people, i was raised in fundamental protestant theology that was based on the Substitutionary Atonement Theory, that God needed a blood sacrifice before he could even stand to be near us. And like a lot of people, I found it to be a horrible theology and rebelled against it by trying to throw God out of my life.
I found I still needed a spirituality, and so I turned to Buddhism, where I learned contemplation and meditation, especially meditations on compassion. Interestingly, I had had an experience of Jesus from my earlier encounter with protestant theology, and found myself returning back to him as such a perfect example of the compassion I was learning about in Buddhism.
I finally came to a personal understanding that I needed Jesus and His Spirit to truly become the "compassionate bodhisattva" that I longed to be, and I left Buddhism for a return to Jesus.
I knew that I could never return to the old theology that I experienced in my youth, and I wanted to incorporate the valuable teachings that I had learned in Buddhism into my return to Jesus. But how to do this?
With the discovery of Richard Rohr's ideas I am finally finding good methods to do exactly that. I have no interest in being a Catholic, but I AM learning a lot about contemplative prayer, the Cosmic Christ, and about something that I call "Evolved By Grace", where I find the Holy Spirit meeting me in meditation and working within me to transform me into what both God and I want me to be. It's not works, because all I'm doing is "just sitting there" in silence, but as I do, I allow an opportunity for Grace to do its work.
So, once again, thank you for posting this to TH-cam. I'm sure it is helping many people who are in the same boat that I am, and it is helping to bring about a new face for Christianity in this world.
A mirror exactly to my story. Spookily nearly exactly.
I'd add that your "just sitting there" is building your mental muscle. It's literally exercise that pays off in increased detatchment from our monkey minds the more we practice. Can see this on brain scans I mean, physical changes.
My sadhana is song, I go outside and sing and sing about Love and goodness and Jesus on my breaks at work. Every day. This has seemingly strengthened my hold on Love when I walk back inside...
Reading latest political gaffs does not. Reading social media does not. Taking with coworkers often just amplifies common bitchings... Finding this sadhana of song is clearing extra space for Love to abide in as the months pass.
Good for you
👍
My journey as well. Wish I could chat to you but good to know thereare others on the same path. Love and Respect.
Thank ulove u
I completely understand and also share your view on Calvin; but Calvin said one thing which I hope and pray I shall never forget: "Christianity is a LIFE, not a doctrine . God Bless, and I read and watch Fr. Rohr each and every day.
The Cosmic Christ was before the beginning of time. He is beyond time, because He is the Creator Himself...."eternally begotten of the Father." The Eternal Son always was.
God bless you and many thanks for uploading this podcast :)
So thankful 🙏
I was so excited when I first heard Fr. Rohr. I loved Breathing Underwater, ordered Naked Now and got the audible version of Divine Dance. Then I heard him diminish the importance of the right to life issue but stand up mightily against racism, sexism and poverty. I wondered why are some sins wrong but others acceptable. If the most innocent and vulnerable form of life is not an important political issue, why do any other issues really matter? And why does nondual only apply when certain issues are involved? I can't help thinking that St. Francis would have been as deeply appalled by the practice of abortion as he was with poverty. I will continue to read the books and continue my search for mystical spirituality but not at the cost of moral relativism. If that is the price, it is too expensive. Thankfully, it is not.
I respect your right to your opinion and thank you for being civil. Here are Rick Rohr's Abortion Archives: cac.org/tag/abortion/. Perhaps that will give you a better perspective. Have a great day.
In addition to the bodily sin concept, Abortion isn't a man's to understand really. I'm not sure people without uterus can understand what the variables are. Plenty of women are against abortion, we should let the sisters flesh all that out eh...
If you run down a squirrel by accident, that's different than intentionally swerving in order to hit one. This is no simile to abortion (again I'm male and cannot know) but speaks to how one act ("murder") can have different eschatological repercussions per the INTENTION...
Can you provide a direct quote from Rohr? I would love to hear what he has to say about it. I would guess it has more to do with who's doing the talking: the true or false self. The link provided by Copywriting 101 points out that Jesus never spoke directly about it. He never politicized it. In that regard, we are being played like violins. Jesus was clearly more appalled by the Pharisees and those in power than the sinners. I think your use of the word "appalled" in conjunction with St. Francis can be best rebutted by Francis himself. Francis prayed to understand vs. be understood. Maybe try that on.
I come to Richard as a member of 12 step recovery. Everything he says resonates with the core tenets of AA as the spiritual program it is, built upon the foundation of 1st century Christianity as practiced by our predecessors, The Oxford Group.
@Wiil D I have heard Richard Rohr say he thinks Bill the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, or whatever it was known at the beginning, Gave America's contribution to the World's Spirituality. High Praise! My oldest Aunt was part of it and a wonderful woman.
I have also heard him say that. AA's roots are in a movement called the Oxford Group. They practiced 1st century Christianity. What Richard talks about as practiced by the 'Desert Fathers'. A form of Christianity devoid of church yet spiritually rigorous. Contemplative prayer and action based upon the teachings in the "Sermon on the Mount" were it's doctrine. It got people sober but the drunks didn't quite fit with the 'normal' members of the group so Bill started AA and based the 12 steps on the Oxford's 6. The program is almost identical with the exception of Bill's suggestion to believe in a 'power greater than ourselves' rather than a specific deity.
Yep. Just add Centering Prayer as an 11th Step practice and now you're really talking contemplatives-in-the-world.
@@willdenham thanks very much for the information.
@@johncook7281 My pleasure.
I wish all the Catholic priests I grew up with were like Fr. Richard Rohr. They weren’t.
Amen. The Boomer Catholic years, even in SoCal, were still in an era of slumber, still authoritarian, still Latin masses, still fainting kids from incense and fasting. I was utterly petrified of daily going to parochial school...the nuns, the priests, the solemnity, the distance of God. No small wonder I would gravitate to the God of the Jesus Movement evangelicals, later to be repulsed by their own abhorrence of mystery, mysticism, and metaphor.
aaaaaa
John Deery (director) I see a lot of Ignatian spirituality with Richard Rohr, thank God for those priests!
My heart and spirit is fed in such an exciting way in your teaching.
Very enlightening. Thank you for your podcast
Excellent thankyou for posting Richard and yourselves, great questions and talk.
I would love to hear Richard Rohr in conversation with JORDAN PETERSON.
Y'shua said to love your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind. And LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF. It wasn't an either/or. It was his commandments. You can't be a follower of Y'shua if you don't obey and follow his teachings. When you turn your back on the needy, the sick, the destitute, the grieving and the hopeless, you turn your back on Y'shua also. He weeps, seeing all the hate and division of his people. It's past time we turn back to God, forgive ourselves for being lost, and get back on the one true path back home. God bless you. Namaste 🙏
Thank you for great dialogue -
And experience is mystic - because truly and deeply experiencing is transformative - and is like a walking into the unknown-known interweaving body-heart-mind-universe ....
True and we Christians haven't done our job. Sorry world sorry God, ok reset where did we go from here? Only the voice of truth within all can reveal that. Good video ty for posting. #timetounite
Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.HE "the holy spirit" will bring to remembrance all things whatsoever I taught you. Jesus is God.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus is God, nor is Jesus the Holy Spirit. Jesus was a man. Christ is the omnipresence of the Holy Spirit as Kristos, the Cosmic Christ, known in meditation as the Inner being which is eternal and unborn, and this is known in our own realization as just One Being in all humanity as a single cosmic consciousness, in the face of which the idea of sin is primitive and ridiculous. If we cannot know this within ourselves, then religion and faith without evidence is useless and futile, tiny instead of an Enormity.
@@moonsod1113 Do you not believe that Jesus has the holy spirit even as a man just like us? I would say that the Holy Spirit and Christ Consciousness is the same thing.
How I would love to have chat with Richard I live in U K
REALIZE THE KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS WITHIN
Father Rohr is a great communicator.
Incarnation = The Almighty's evolutionary catalyst working to change the trajectory of human evolution = The Cosmic Christ
"Alabama mind"... musical fadeout... Epic. The one thing I haven't seen from Richard Rohr, with all his wisdom, is the importance of silliness and fun. If you come at things from that place, you're much more likely I think to fall into the space that is God. It's a moment of pure enjoyment that gets you away from your ego.
Fr. Rohr asked God to help Pope Francis be around for at least 5 more years…well! It’s been 6!
This was a really interesting stream.
Love Rohr. And these dudes seem hip. Keep it coming.
Pns p. 189 “bliss awaits those who can possibly make it through the tragedy of what has happened to Christ in the Church.”
Ws p. 64 “As I now see it Christianity has perpetuated a shortsighted view of Christ and, consequently, a shortsighted view of the rest of us. Christ’s passage was the revelation of the passage of every human being, and any misreading of him is a misreading of the whole of humanity. Investigating Christ’s human experiences in terms of consciousness or self opens up a whole new dimension of his Truth and revelation, and not only his, but our own and that of the whole of creation.”
Rc p. 282 “The mind can find no definitive satisfaction or fulfillment with mere concepts and hearsay. What man is seeking is the living experiential reality of the Truth, his own immediate experience of this truth. Until he does, he will go right on questioning and being dissatisfied. Even if man knew the truth, he could never be fulfilled by merely ‘believing’ it. He is only fulfilled by experientially living it - knowing it firsthand.”
Ws p. 107 “To say that Christ’s self or consciousness was eternal gives an entirely different picture and meaning to Christ than if we say his self or consciousness was not eternal…I think the West will come upon its own set of problems when it faces the impermanence of Christ’s self or consciousness, but, at the same time, this will reveal an entirely new dimension of Christ’s revelation - of this I am certain.”
Ws p. 156 “But who can understand death and resurrection coming after a life of union and oneness with God? Who can understand the true nature of this death and what the resurrection reveals of Christ’s divine nature? Because of this mystery I regard Christianity as the most difficult and mystical of all religions; Christ is the most unbelievable and unknown Truth there is - and the most difficult of all Truths.”
Rc p. 78 “Sometimes the impression is given that Christianity has a monopoly on forgiveness, salvation, savior, eternal life, God’s Spirit, grace, and so on, when, in fact, Christianity took all this straight from Judaism! The revelation of ‘Christ’ had nothing to do with any of this and changed none of it.”
Rc p. 83 “Basically, there is no such thing as ‘Christian mysticism’ because Christianity - transformation into Christ - is the essence of mysticism.”
Rc p. 140 “To think the anthropomorphic biblical interpretation of God ‘generating’ or ‘begetting’ an Uncreated ‘Son’ could have justified a transition in the Church’s whole understanding of the Trinity and Christ, can only be put down as the most flagrant wrong turn in the entire history of Christianity.”
Rc p. 144 “There has to be God (Logos) before there is any incarnation of the Logos - before there is any Christ and before there is the created man Jesus. No question, the Creed must be totally restated, Christians today are not the semi-polytheists of yesterday.”
Rc p. 157 “To my knowledge, however, the Greeks never agreed hypostasis meant persona - and indeed it does not. In time, however, in the West at least, hypostasis and person were used as synonymous terms. So due to this error, there occurred another switch from the original hypostasis to person - a monumental wrong turn as regards a true understanding of the Trinity and Christ.”
Rc p. 170 “Like the fathers, Christians would be horrified to think they were polytheists or believed in three gods. But this is why the Trinity is kept at a distance, declared a ‘mystery’ incapable of the human mind to grasp. This is also why the Trinity means relatively nothing to the average Christian and plays no part in his spiritual life.”
Rc p. 201 “Sometimes we wonder how Western civilization ever became so self-oriented compared to other civilizations that were more oriented to the benefit of everyone over their individual selves. Well, who invented the individual and particular ‘person’ or self, and who gave it ontological priority over everyman’s common human nature? Christianity!”
Rc p. 242 “What few people realize, however, is that the official Church or Christian language is totally premised on this use of idioms instead of on the truth of Christ.”
Rc p. 248 “No question, the C of P is the most deceiving ruse in all of Christian history a ruse responsible for totally wrong views of Christ, the Trinity and the man Jesus.”
Rc p. 249 “Yet the more divine one makes the Logos’ human nature, the more Christ fades from the picture and the more Christianity deteriorates to a Jesus-cult.”
Rc p. 257 “But who knows what people think they are praying to or worshiping? We can probably say for certain they are not praying to the dual natures of Christ!”
Rc p. 279 “Eliminate the term ‘person’, and how is Christ to be envisioned as a single being? Without theology’s absolute dependence on person as an individual being, its Christologies would go down like a row of dominoes.”
Rc p. 291 “this is exactly what the Incarnation is telling us: not only is mankind not that bad, but rather, it is of greatest worth to God.”
Rc p. 300 “Even the best of theologians are reluctant to admit any radical existential change in human nature - much less an ontological change. Instead, they assure us everyone will go on just the same - only better, of course.”
Rc p. 318 “The day Christianity lost this understanding of deification as the way man is saved, is the day it lost Christ.”
Rc p. 323 “That down the road, Christianity was turned into the narrow, naïve and childish view we have today - i.e., only the man Jesus is Christ, only Jesus could ever be eternally one with God - is the inevitable loss of the whole revelation of the Incarnation, and, consequently, of Christ and Christianity…Christianity’s exclusive, boxed-in view of Jesus and Christ, not only aborts man’s spiritual journey, but will be its own undoing - why? Simply because it is not the Truth of ‘Christ’.”
Rc p. 335 “To say Christian theology is ‘complicated’ is the understatement of all time. It is an unadulterated mess. It so defies common logic as to require man to forfeit his intellectual integrity in order to ‘believe’.”
Rc p. 465 “What is unfortunate, however, is those who write the history of the early development of Christian thought and doctrine, consistently rely on the present-day Aristotelian rendition of it. It could be said this is a deliberate attempt to eliminate any possible ‘Platonic’ understanding of Christ as a universal in order to make Christ solely one particular man - Jesus, of course.”
Rc p. 486 “Loss of self is the very foundation of Christianity.”
Ecc p. 82 “The primary purpose of my writing, however, was less the subject of no-self than to put into the field of Mystical Theology a whole stage of the spiritual journey presently missing.”
A spiritual journey is only missing if you choose not to seek it. We all need and have a
seeking of truth inside of us.
The Divine spirit is within us. You dont have the last word on this mystical and spiritual pathways.
Suffering might bring us into the spiritual world. For example a near death experience can be one process to initiate a process of spiritual pathway.
Sir Richard, I have read your content related to Enneagram and Falling Upward. I think you are an phenomenal thinker and Godly man and I truly admire you. But with all due respect, if Jesus ( Yeshua ) is just an concept, all religion goes to Heaven, why did He bother to come down to earth from heaven, die and get resurrected, and command us to make disciples for Him?
Why does he claim that the Traditional view says that God had to get a blood sacrifice before He could love us?? The Bible clearly says that "God SO LOVED THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son..."
He LOVED, therefore He gave. He LOVED therefore He paid the price Himself!
Metaphorical blood represents energy he doesn't suggest the literal interpretation of blood.>>> anyone with a degree in literature can see the obvious Point he's making
If He's all powerful there is no mediator needed for him to Love any of us. I think this is why atonement is confusing. How can Love need a mediator, it just flows eh?
That is strange though, getting inklings to contemplate there, ----- so by becoming us He loved us finally completely, maybe? Hmmmm
But I do firmly believe that giving love is all we need to know. All else literally is additional, if we know to abide in and give Love then we are reaching for the maximal.
This is what I hear in Richard's work that's different for me, refreshing. A non-dual Christian, I wasn't sure that was possible. Beautiful
Thank you. That makes things clearer for me and you say it beautifully.
It's totally erroneous to say that why did God need a blood sacrifice to love us. God has always loved humanity. The atonement and blood sacrifice were precisely BECAUSE He loved us. Because of our fallen state, a vast gulf exists between man and a sinless God. That gulf has been bridged through Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. The Cross was a MANIFESTATION of God's love for us (John 3:16). Even the Old Testament was pointing forward to the cross and we are now looking back at it as a finished work. So Rohr has got it totally wrong!
Please, no politics, Father Richard. I'm a true Christian, and I'm voting Trump!!! Good luck finding a Christian that is agreeable to you running for President. You say no dualism, then you talk dualism.
Normally a big fan Richard, BUT despite this profound spiritual explanation, also, unfortunately a demonstration of 'talking the talk' without 'walking the walk'. These political comments simply do not belong in ANY spititual discussion. They indicate a tremendous lack of self-control, the placement of more emphasis on the material world than on the indwelling Christ and an implication that the Creator is asleep at the switch. The hypocricy is magnified with the reference in the lecture to the difficulties encountered by an angry person. A political person shares the identical problem. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's", when time is appropriate.
I’m with you on the political comments. Fr Rohr acknowledges the tribalism of the world and religion, yet he still decries the hypocrisy of a Christian business man. Given our mindset as he describes it, he must be endorsing a rich leftist politician. He needs to go back and clean that up or he could become that person he describes as irrelevant or untrustworthy in matters of Christianity.
Check out Jonathan kleck on youtube
Has Richard met the pope and what does he think of the pope? It will be interesting to see a an interview between Richard and the pope on TH-cam, I don't think the pope has that much courage and this is why Christianity is doomed to fail, narrow-minded greed and lack of creativity within the hierarchy is disgusting, I think the pope would be open-minded to the possibility but the hierarchy would try and shut that beautiful potential down.>> is it possible build on Rotten foundations.>>> maybe we just let the entire structure crumble.>>if it doesn't have the ability to transform itself into a meaningful relevant entity.>>> in the past the pope has behaved like Zeus raining down Thunderbolts hopefully the current pope is different but most definitely his Time is Running Out this will be his last chance to prove that he is a decent human being and relevant to scientific Society.>> his last dying wish should be to have a TH-cam interview with Richard and 100 million people would be interested to look at that interview and that would revitalise the church and potentially save humanity from descending into a new Dark age .>>yes seriously if Richard had 100 million TH-cam views that could save humanity from descending into a new dark age, 100 million TH-cam views would equal a potential of 1000 brilliant new priests a new church that isn't in conflict with quantum science, please forgive me for being ridiculously optimistic
Jesus said to Peter that the church will not crumble, will not fail and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. don't you have faith in what he said?
What is it with you and the pope .. i trúly don't get it ?? The pope is just another HUMAN being, nothing special about him !! Yes, read yr Bible. 2Cor 5:14-21
@@elmarieking9590 $100 billion
While I always love listening to your talks, it never fails to amaze me how you can lambaste one political group with all kinds of generalities, and assumptions, and yet never see the plank in your own (group’s) eye, Richard. How can you call one group “prejudiced” without seeing the prejudice in your own words? We are a year almost to the day of the election - and the country is flourishing. None of the things the Liberals warned about have happened, and people of all socioeconomic status have been elevated. You really ought to get to know some of the regular Republicans you and your ilk have so demonized. You would see we really are all one another’s - we all belong together. Keep doing the talks! Just maybe cool the political innuendo, huh?
There’s no room for taking what nourishes you and leaving the rest?
I heard no partisan bias...Fr. Rohr "lambasts" both sides.
The same thing has bothered me on many occasions. It’s jarring and dualistic.
Wherever you're hearing judgement and name calling etc, know that person would ultimately regret not being more wholesome/complete. Wafting one's ass fumes at folks is never that preferred image in the mirror.
Which brings us to Richard, thanks for gently reminding him to pander to our worldly whimsy.
Which brings us to politics, back around to the beginning, a circle here --------- wherever you see someone wafting fumes please don't pretend. Shit stinks. Fumes all around these days, "all sides", all rotten. Is best to do our best ahimsa and walk away quick.
It's rough out here, oh my, working harder with less for longer. Socioeconomic status hoodoo voodoo
This entire podcast seems like mere speculation.
Lol, he has access to rooms / books in the Vatican that folks would give their right hands to glimpse. Seems like speculation cuz we're shrooms kept in the dark and fed the abomination of a violent God.
Beware of this priest, please.