How Good are Longboats? (AoE2)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- For Vikings, the question is often floated: Longboat or War Galley? Do you stay tide to the galley line you may have mast in Feudal, or rock the boat by going with your unique unit? As you’d probably expect, it’s not as simple as one oar the other. We’ll look into water the factors to consider, so you can be shore to better navigate the decision in your next game.
CASTLE AGE
0:25 War Galley vs Longboat stats and cost
2:00 A note on micro and patrol
2:35 Comparison vs War Galley
3:55 vs Fire Ships
4:30 vs Demolition Ships
5:15 vs Rams
IMPERIAL AGE
6:05 Galleon vs Elite Longboat stats and cost
8:20 vs Fast Fire Ships
8:45 vs Heavy Demolition Ship & Docks
9:19 Miscellaneous cases: Cannon Galleons, Turtle Ships, Caravels
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
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SotL didn't factor in the most important advantage of Longboats: they have proper sinking animations!
Caravel has the most satisfying sinking animation!
How about the Fishing Ship's?
Im actually surprised that none of the sinking animations for galleys has been updated to the pre rendered "real time" destruction.
They kinda look like they deflate, but that beats most warships that just disintegrate
Yes ,agreed !
The other ship sinking animation looks like they Michael Bayed...
"Better navigate the decision," "let's drift to Imperial age," "watered down." Spirit of the Law isn't just a math expert.
*Spirit of the Pun*
Float the question, stay `tide` to your unique unit, or use the galleons you've `mast`. They come in hot and fast
Don’t rock the boat
Haha nice, didn't catch those 🪝
Per the subtitles, the end is "I'll sea you next time."
His arguments definitely hold water.
I dunno, I got a sinking feeling.
Water you thinking
Hmm? Ohw sorry I was sunken in my own waves of thoughts
Ah I sea what you did there.
That’s unfortunate, usually you want boats to be the other way around
There are far too many water based puns in this video. SOTL really outdid his script writing this time around.
There's never enough water based puns
That's what you meant
He didn't go overboard, no
We're drowning in puns.
I counted 18
And then we all laughed
SOTL: "Cannon galleons are primarily for shore bombardment and definitely not naval combat."
Spanish cannon galleons: "That's cute."
"Eso es muy mono".
Spanish cannon galleons are still not good enough for naval combat, due to the low fire rate. It can join naval battle aside of shore bombardment tasks, but go full galleons are much more cost effective if you're going to gain sea control
Spanish Galleons are probably the most unbalanced unit in the game. They're just too good compared to regular slow mo cannon galleons that they feel like a third unique unit for that civilization.
@@KochiyaOcean I really do not think this applies to post imperial naval fights. If you mass enough of them, they even eat fire ships, which is outrageous btw.
@@oom-3262 Galleons can just do same thing with much lower cost. Cannon galleons are just so hard to mass except you're in a huge advantage
I always thought the Longboat should have been available in Feudal age and have a transport capacity of like 3 or 4. So that vikings could better at shore raiding in the early game.
Would be a nice detail but viking is already strong in water map
no reason to buff their navy
I think the transporting of units hold water in my opinion but another version could be adding firepower per added units like towers or perhaps speed like with rams
@@user-wi6vkq21k9a Didn't you hear wht SOTL said? He said the longboats are trash!
Longboats are only good if you mass them like archers.
That was the idea but because some reasons they changed it. In alpha version they could garrison units (but probably not from feudal age)
Longboats are more pop efficient, that's why their elite upgrade is more expensive.
Good point. Much like corean War Wagons, even if they're expensive, once you reach a high enough numbers the pop amount to counter them doesn't exist and they stomp.
I think its mainly their stacking and speed theyre amazing raiders ive tried fighting them myself
SotL really going ham with the nautical puns in this one. I *_sea_* what you did there
*water* the odds he wouldn't ;7
He dive deep into the puns
Weren't Punics a naval power?
@@MrlspPrt they were before becoming too *salty*
One of the reasons you'd see longboats at a high level of play is because they train faster. Vikings can get taken off of water in feudal age by the opponent rushing in with fire galleys, so the thought of going up to castle then getting back onto water with longboats, who are better vs fire ships anyways, and create faster and thus require fewer docks to mass with, is quite appealing.
This. If you quickly mass a fleet of Longboats, you can stomp the enemy's navy in a decisive battle and kick them off the water. Even if they try to build Docks under a Castle, some micro will let you destroy the Docks and kill any Villagers who try to build. Then you just get to Cannon Galleons and bombard the shore.
Most water games are pretty much decided in Castle Age, so the enemy can't really make a comeback if their navy is destroyed and their Docks are blown up. Only Portuguese can really make any sort of comeback thanks to their Feitorias.
Another advantage for Longboat is they have real collapsing animation instead of war galley's sudden change to debris when it dies. Yes you can only see that when they dies but going out with styles is still some style points.
2:16 Lmao
*"But just be prepared to **_sink_** quite a bit more gold and attention on to them"*
I _sea_ what you did there. This is quite an _oar-deal_ indeed. I was _a-boat_ to say Galleon always wins, but not anymore xD
the madman did it again, watered down at 7:12
"They certainly didn't *flounder* in this battle"
"I wouldn't go *overboard* to say longboats are better"
SotL really anchored down with water puns in this video.
even at the beginning, "the question is often floated." there really are a ton of sea puns in this video
Spirit you forgot the most important part of the Longboat, it looks cooler
Goes without sailing.
Deep dive on Longboat? Revisiting when to get wheelbarrow?
Oh boy I smell a remastered Viking civ overview coming!
Let's hope so!
*Vikings overview remastered incoming*
+1
He didn't overview Slavs!
@@sauravtripathi4128 He did years ago, but he hasn’t done Sicilians yet.
@@taudvore259 so that can be said about Vikings too!
@@taudvore259 Sicilians are already done. Please check it.
I just love how massed longboats shred buildings
I offen think Longboat should have transport capacity, like 5 slots maybe
It absolutely should be able to transport units. Even if it's just villagers and berserks. Up to 10, and then elite is 20. Would be great for raiding
This is giving me some strong aoe3 galleon vibes
@@nicholasnixon1311 don't know about that, think its better to keep the number of passengers low and versatile, then large and specific.
@@SirAroace yeah on second thought. I think 5 for regular an d 10 for elite would be good. Emphasizes early raiding. And maybe make it only infantry? Idk. Just a thought
I honestly thought they did for a while when i first started playing!
IMAGINE if you could put those longboats into towers of castles.
what about docks ? coastal castle
Among the Hidden: my time has come...
Would stop the counter from a couple of virgin fire ships as my chad longboats shoot from docks or castles
Your name is a thing of monstrous beauty
MikeEmpires needs to get on this.
Interesting facts but then again, they do look cool so I keep using them
I really hope he goes in depth in AOE4.
@Mik H I can already tell from trailers and the like that there's loads of depth to go into 11.
Another plus point for the longboat: a more beautiful death animation
"But the question is often floated" okay, so I can see that this is going to be a long video
That's a very well written script, all the water/ship related puns are simply great. Well done!
so each longboat has 3 storm trooper artillerists by default?
Interestingly historical as it looks like a better raider unit, sail up along a coast and up a river and attack buildings and units on land rather than prolonged sea engagements.
Viking longboats give the impression of a land raiding unit, should had tested this against more land based units, my guess is they work more similar to arrow towers.
I agree, but it was addressed briefly the previous longboat video. Your impression is correct based on that video. Longboats should be preferred over galleys for attacking land units.
Really waving the water puns in our faces this time.
I guess this is accurate to how the Vikings lost the water game as other civilizations improved their ship game in history. Still, it would be nice if Longboats had another edge like being able to carry infantry (but not villagers).
did they lost the water game? From what i know, they just left it and focused heavily on trading. Some places they used to raid surrendered their government and the vikings managed them from there on. So they just settled,no? At least thats what the 2 hours documentation i watched last weekend told me :s
I haven't played aoe2 for about 18 years. And yet i watch every single video on this channel
longships should honestly be unlocked in feudal rather than castle.
But with nerfed stats
It would be interesting to make them available in dark age, to fit with the Vikings' strong naval prowess during that period of history. It would require a major rebalancing of the civ, though
@@Septimus_ii dark age? Your idea is interesting. How would you rework the civ?
Then they also could not have castle as requirment.
@@SIGNOR-G Maybe just rework the stats of the Longboat, making its stats increase with age, to the point of its current power.
I love this channel. I don't even play AoE2 but I watch every single one of these videos for some reason. Thank you SotL
By the ways SOTL, thanks for your "final thoughts" segment. That really helps to nail down the main ideas.
Damn the number of puns this man has made blows me out of the water.
10 seconds in and "rock the boat" "float a question" and "navigate" lmao
Love so much the outro theme appearing in the last videos
The real advantage of the longboat is its psychological effect on the enemy
This is ridiculous. I haven't played AoE2 in years, and personally don't realy enjoy it much, yet I still find myself on this channel with every upload, and watch every video. I just love this kind of analysis type stuff I guess?
SotL, I am so glad I found you. You renewed my love for AoE2. Keep up the great work!
I love the amount of nautical puns in this video. Helps keep the points anchored.
All these ship and water puns are making me seasick
That's the best description I've seen yet. Bloody genius mate.
Give longboats transport capability! That would make them viable and more historically accurate
When I played Erik the Red for the first time I built like fifteen longboats thinking they had transport ship capability. I didn't even check. I was so mad.
A "longboat" is a ship's boat used between around 1500 to the late 1700s: a rowing boat used for things like sending crew members ashore when the ship was anchored. The Vikings used "longships".
The key to Longboats is their creation time. With a few Docks producing them, they allow the Vikings to perform a knockout blow to the enemy's navy, kicking the other player off the water and preventing them from making a comeback. This can be far more cost-effective than a slow naval grind, even if the Longboat is more expensive.
The Longboat's speed also plays a huge role in this. With it, you have control over when to take fights. You can either pursue the enemy when they try to retreat and they can't outrun you, or you can run away if the fight looks dicey and they won't be able to catch you without Demo Ships, which you can snipe with micro.
A way to make them more unique would be to give them the ability to slowly move on land. Historically the vikings carried or pushed their boats on logs to move their boats from one river to the next or to bypass fast currents or waterfalls. Maybe give them a different landform that can be engaged similarily to trebuchets, which is unable to attack. On some maps that could make for some very unique stratgies!
Which one is better for securing a neutral island for archery ranges?
I see you are a man of T90 taste
Ouch.
Finally I know why I won that Islands game with teuton H-Demos all those years ago ...
Always happy to see an upload from Spirit Of The Law.
Other important longboat advantages
- They look cool
can you make a video about what to expect from the Mega Random map generation?
On Minute 9:00 did you try spread formation for long boat. That helps avoid demolition boat damage
I never noticed that there are little splashes in the water for missed arrows/shots.
Yeah, nice attention to detail.
theyve been there since at least the conqueror's expansion iirc
The amount of water puns made my head spin.
The Longboat really just feels like the water version of cavalry archers.
If they ever make longboats carry 5 Vikings or 5 units (any units), but remove multiple projectiles from an empty ship, for a bit higher cost it would make for a unique unique unit
That answers my question I asked my mate yesterday! Thanks!!
I love that the final answer is that it depends
Longboats are basically 'anti sieges and anti buildings' ship.
Thank you for your analysis. Love it!
Viking longboats vs caravels are realistically a bit of a laughable match-up. Their first historical appearances are roughly 1000 years apart. Granted, IRL that caravel would use guns and not arrows too, as well as a billion other historical inaccuracies. Not to mention the viking longboat was never intended to raid other ships, but designed to raid towns
Yeah, I don't even know how they handled other ships. Did they avoid them? Then they go straight in and board them?
@@nicholase2868 Considering no one at the time/place had equally good ships as the vikings, I assume there was no piracy. And if there was, the pirates would be in the same situation, so I suppose a boarding might have taken place in such a case.
@@oivinf id like tl see chinese ships fight viking ones from the same time period
Sounds like the Vikings navy discount needs a buff over shipwright
@@AndrewTheFrank still doesn't change the fact that shipwright is better than Viking Naval bonus in Imperial age because ships become 20% cheaper and build 35% faster with shipwright and the Vikings only get a Discount not the faster building ships
I think the thing about the vikings boni is the timing advantage, same with their free wheelbarrow and handcart. You arent better than other civilizations in the longrun, but you get your discounts/economy boni faster.
@@volk551 but Vikings have the ability in Feudal AND they don't have to pay for it so they have a cheaper early/mid game, that mixed with their team bonus "Docks are 15% cheaper", and with very nice long boats to finish off the late game. Vikings aren't hurting at all, they are just a little different
@@Shero1337 Yes but it doesn't matter if they get it earlier the generic unit is still cheaper The Galley ship line cost way less gold then the longship you ever saw in the video that the normal Galleon beats the elite longship without mirco
Shipwright is very expensive
@Spirit of the Law unrelated, but could you do a video overviewing pros and cons of spear line vs camel line both in dealing with cavalry and providing a large portion of your army?
I've always been confused as to precisely how their attack bonuses, attack rate, HP, etc factor into their effectiveness
This is what I looking for since long time ago.
great videos, keep up the amazing work
2:24 jesus christ. aoe2 looks really clean
IS THIS ONE OF THE BEST GAMES EVER OR IS THIS ONE OF THE BEST GAMES EVER
One thing you should've included when you talked about Shipwright. It's very expensive tech and you rarely see it in 1v1 games outside of Italians. Often it's not worth the cost.
Hey guys, Spirit of the Longboat here
One important advantage that was not mentioned was their superior shoreline harassment. A massed archery unit on constant patrol along the enemy shoreline takes out many enemy villagers and buildings, and once the shoreline is sanitized, it is nearly impossible for your enemy to rebuild.
Keeping your infantry close to shore also reliably baits the AI into wasting many units that cannot survive under your naval artillery cover.
Imagine if AoE2 actually tried to make real world sense and Viking Longboats where the only warship that could sail through shallows and swamps?
Time to play Vinlandsaga for the 1000th time
That's all for this one. Thanks for watching, guys, and I'll sea you next time.
I recently played some Islands and ruled the sea with longboats. Very fun to raid around and colonize the whole map one island at a time.
The tighter pack on the Longboat formation is so you can sail more of them up rivers and maximise your roleplaying potential
My life is basically studying, eating, sleeping and waiting for SOTL'S videos to be uploaded.
4th time asking: Hey SotL, what's the song from your outro called? It sounds really chipper
Shazam says its: Dylan Joseph, Lets get this party started,
@@danielolsen2341 And Shazam was right, i should finally install that app ^^ Thank you, kind stranger!
Thank the Lord you gave up on the 20 second intro! Didn't have to skip ahead. 😉
I wonder if you could "pack up" the longboat like a trebuchet at the shore or in shallow water, then have it carried over land, if that would create interesting new situations.
He showers us with naval and boat puns right off the bat. 11
Great Video, thanks SOTL
I think you should run longboats for naval combat overall because they're effectively a domination unit. They're weak for their cost but can be produced rapidly to compensate, they can destroy enemy docks quicker and hell even raid fishing economy better. The idea is to have a lot of them before your enemy can really mass up any sort of naval army, otherwise they'll just beat you with fire ships.
And yes, the Galley line is far cheaper and that makes them useful chaff + bodies on the board early on, but cost efficiency is not the road to victory in this case. Fire Ships WILL be used against you before you get big numbers and your enemy knows you can't really counter a large number of fire ships without spamming one-shot demo ships or kiting for a freaking day.
Spirit, why did you stop including your theme music in every video? It's the cherry on top of your great vids. Please bring it back!
If you don't have a lot of time to sink into this video and try to avoid going overboard with the details, the TLDR is "It's complicated, and depends on what you're up against." Against fireships- the longboat wins with some micro. Against galleys, the longboat needs micro to be effective. Against demolition ships, your longboats are headed straight for Davy Jones's Locker. Better yet, if you aren't good micro and multitasking, best to avoid the longboat so you don't washout.
Watch the full clip to see how SOTL anchors these conclusions in solid analysis.
Great job very well done video bro 👍👍
Lol unrelated but relevant 1st thing I do when clicking on one of your casts is a thumbs 👍up haven't even watched it yet 🤣
the amount of boat pun is almost as big as the number times Franks were #1
Who when playing this in their pre teens knew this game was so complex
Galleys to take the initial fight, remax with longboats rapidly to raid the docks and push them entirely out of the water.
They're the same design for AoM nordic ships and that's all I need
There should be more unique ship units, imagine the ideas If every civ had 2-3 unique units
That would be a nightmare to balance. Which other unique unit would you give the goths without making them absolutely overpowered?
Loving all these puns, in the video AND in the depths of the comment section
The best reason to get these is how cool they look.
So.Many.Water.Puns.
Loved them.
I sea what you did there with all of those naval word plays. :)
I predict an updated Viking review is coming.
Any chance of some videos explaining how to make your own simple to do mods? Changing backgrounds, diy units or buildings, data mods etc.
It might’ve been worth putting a large amount of longboats against the same amount of galleons produced within the same time period, like say you have 15 longboats, how many galleons would you be fighting if you’ve both been producing for the same amount of time
I think longboats are way too similar to galleys> They should have really gone for the unique in unique unit and turned it into a raiding unit that deals bonus damage to ports, maybe even getting gold from destroying buildings. Or go really far off and make them and the berserker the same unit, like a transport ship that becomes a troop of infantry.
This is interesting and all... But why theres no more intro? :(
Excellent analysis aside, I liked this video for the clever use of water based terms
I think it would be better if Viking's Longboat was a unique transport and had some unique effect of giving transported units a timed combat bonus when they exit the longboat.
I don’t upgrade my galleys from feudal, when you get heated shot it becomes a pretty strong unit when massed.