How good is the Jaguar Warrior? (AoE2)
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Analysis and discussion about the Aztec unique unit: the Jaguar Warrior.
0:31 Historical inspiration
1:27 Castle age stats/bonuses
2:40 Jaguars vs infantry
5:05 vs other castle age units
6:10 Imperial Age
8:55 Army compositions
10:08 Jaguar Warrior potential buffs
12:30 Sponsor
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
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Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
Samurai: unit with the shortest memory span.
Just look at him constantly checking if the sword is there
its like that unsheathing the sword meme
And ghulam is rebellious skirmisher because they refused to throw their spear and prefer to deliver a personal attack on archer
Seriously, Samurai have completely lost their minds since DE came out. They were already a bit fidgety in the original game, but not nearly to this degree.
Same with teutonic knights. Also they are in the middle of a fight but keep putting their sword away after a stab only to take it out again for the next attack. They could have twice the attack speed if they weren't such idiots.
Funnily enough in real medieval Japan revealing your sword like that was a declaration of an intent to kill and doing it frivolously could give you a literal death penalty
Since a Jaguar Warrior is way stronger than a Jaguar we can surely deduce its the warrior part that brings most of the power.
insane analysis
Warrior warrior when?
but are eagle warriors stronger than eagles? what about karambit warriors can they defeat regular karambits?
@@andoreh4021 Hoarah Loux
@@cambac-pro Unfortunately this question doesnt make sense to me. What even is Eagles? Ive never seen an Eagles in my life..not a single civ nor a single map features anything known as an Eagles. I think Eagles might be just a name like Jimmy or Bartholomew is. If Eagles is really a name used to describe something we have no way of determining whether it's the Eagle or the Warrior part that's behind its power as we've never seen the stats of an Eagle whatever it is..
Another hidden bonus is that they have a very satisfying and - as far as I know - unique attack sound.
*Thunk*
not unique. Xolotl warriors have it as well.
If it’s the sound I’m thinking of then it’s not satisfying: it’s incredibly grating.
When I played the campaign, I was young and didn't care much about balance, just wanted to build a bunch of Jaguar and Eagle Warriors.
I miss the days when 'coolest' automatically equated to 'best'.
Yeah. While the multiplayer is important to keeping the game alive, it has resulted in an ever-growing obsession with metagaming and min-maxing the numbers, rather than enjoying the experience of pitting semi-historical peoples against each other. Nowadays, it is almost nothing but how well a given civ does in the current "meta."
I still playing like this
go, cataphracts, go!
and they're dead
Take into consideration Jaguars were pop-efficient in a lot of tests (despite being more expensive) so, in a campaign setting where population limit is low, and also where your opponents produce a lot of infantry they ARE the best option.
Usually, campaigns are made in such a way that to win the scenarios you do have to play into the civ specific strengths.
Jaguar warriors should drop their jaguar on death, similar to how konniks work!
Microsoft, hire this guy immediately!
ahahasdfghaj
They'd just get hard countered by magyars😔
They split up on death, into a warrior and a jaguar.
Naaaah, they wear the jaguar, not ride it.
Maybe the Jaguar Warrior would be able to resist more arrows if he followed the Conquistador’s description instead of going Abs out for defense.
But the abs are rock solid!
think easy fix would be gambesons to affect jaguars
I think Jaguars should be able to walk between the trees
Terrible trade deal. Abs out all the way.
The problem is that that's squeezing out the Eagle's role
A good historical and gameplay-wise way to buff jaguar warriors would be to extend his +10 bonus against all trash lines (spearmen. skirm, light cav).
- Jaguar warriors use macuahitl, obsidian maces. Obsidian is a kind of glass. Such material is bad against metal, but absoultely devastates flesh.
- Jaguar warriors are aztec petty nobility. They are called "knights" in aztec codex, and therefore is fair to give them an anti-lesser unit role.
- Despite sources admit the effectiveness of their padded armor, it still can't compare to metal armor.
- Jaguars are in a way an impefect Champion, but in this way they would become the "Perfect Champion" and Aztecs would become absolutely fearsome in late imperial age against trash heavy civ, as it's just since Aztecs were quite the oppressive imperial overlords of many Mesoamerican smaller kingdoms.
- This woudn't umbalance the game too much in my opinion. Basically you pay more than a Champion to get an even better service and population efficiency.
- Aztecs in general SHOULD be weak to guns. It's an historical inspired game after all.
- In this way Aztecs have their horseless knight line split in 2 units. The "fast one" (eagles) and the "heavy one" (jaguars) instead of having it combined in the typical Western Knight. Changes to speed should therefore be unnecessary.
the problem with the spanish fighting the aztecs was dealing with their arrows. once they hit their armor, of course they broke, but the shattering of the arrow ment shrapnel splashing into the spaniards face, still taking damage.
@@CallofDutyBlackOps28 Wasn't it also the case that the prevalence of guns made inspired new forms of armor that made bows *more* effective vs troops?
Iiic, the design logic of armor against early guns was to make pieces thicker, then moderate the weight by reducing the coverage to key areas (breastplate + helmet + little else) - that ended up leaving alot more work room for arrows than the outdated medieval armors would've given.
I hear you but conquistadors aren't really that historical lol
I think that An attack bonus against light Cav and skirmishers makes the unit too versatile, if you lack gold what unit can you use? I believe a simple +2 to peirce armour would make them horrific against skirmishers and resistant to archery units, while murderous against infantry, and leave them struggling against Cavalry forcing you to use pikes to support your Jaguars regardless, or using archers and eagles regardless if you are a Mayan player. The Jaguar merely becomes less vulnerable to harassment while being easy to deal with by most civilisations using standard counter units. Being substantially tougher against archers while not impervious to damage makes them distinct against most civilisations without the problems improved move speed adds to balancing. An Elite Eagle type unit with anti infantry bias would make for a terror to pikes and archers alike and be difficult for scouts and knights to answer. and that's kind of what the eagle already does.
@@psssshhh7730 being that the Spanish were in rainy areas, they learned the hard way that wet gunpowder is not fun do deal with let alone trying to set off the powder.
If I were to give the Jaguar Warrior any kind of buff, I’d give them a resistance to infantry attacks, akin to how Royal Heirs makes Shotel Warriors resistant to cavalry attacks. This would reinforce their anti-infantry identity without making them stronger against other enemies, as Jaguars currently have trouble taking cost-effective trades against other infantry UU’s like Samurai or Legionnaires. This would also make them brutally effective against Halbs, which would feel like they’re fighting a Teutonic Knight with higher damage.
Apart from very niche team game situation, why would jaguar warrios ever fight against halbs, Aztecs has no cavalry.
This is what I was thinking. They’re supposed to be highly skilled warriors, and the Spanish stories suggest they were surprisingly resilient in hand to hand, so representing that by negating some incoming infantry damage would be massive. Would also reinforce their role as a support for Aztec skirms and eagles, by making them harder for enemy spear line or swordsmen units to deal with quickly, making the Jaguar a beefy frontline soldier in a way that Aztec Champions can’t do.
@@camilled3752 Because they’re supposed to be niche. This change would just reinforce that. Aztecs should be using Monks against heavy cavalry, even if that’s hard to micro in late game.
I feel Aztecs need something new to help their shortcomings. What I would do is give them some kind of unique upgrade to the Pikeman, separate from the Halberdier, akin to how Persians have Savars.
The thing about Aztecs is that they've largely been power-crept over the years. They haven't gotten many changes and that resulted in other civs being more modernized than them. As such, they could use an update.
Yeah many other infantry units got buffed overtime, but Jaguars still cost a lot and doesn't even feel like a hard counter. With their slow production speed, mass produced strong infantry like Roman and Armenian are hard to handle with them. In many cases their own champions perform just as well like against Goth champions. Infantry damage resistance could really help a lot, making them an actual hard counter to infantry while still performing the same against other units.
@@darkdill Just need to de-nerf their villager's carry capacity and military unit creation speed and they are the old aztecs we all know. No need to change them to something different. Strong eco, fast military creation and terrifying monks. That's the Aztec thing.
I really like all the different segues and puns that lead into your sponsored segments in your videos
Given the anecdotic reference to an Aztec warrior chopping a horse's head off with macuahuitl mid-battle, some anti-cav bonus sounds legit
Ackshually ☝🤓 The warrior chopping the horse's head off with a macuahuitl was tlaxcalan, not aztec. And since I'm already being pedantic, here's the anecdote from the conquistador Bernal Diaz's memoirs (I'll do my best to translate):
And in that instant, a tlaxcaltec battalion, that was waiting in ambush, approached swiftly and furiously, being more than three thousand, and started shooting arrows to our horsemen, that were close to us, showering us with arrows and fire-hardened darts, and with their greatswords (macuahuitls) They did wonders.
[...]
Then Cortés said: "Santiago and a ellos" (sounds familiar?👀). And we charged at them, wounding and killing many of their people with our shots, including three of their captains.
Then, they retreated towards some trenches, where more than fourty thousand warriors lied in ambush along their general, named Xicotencatl.
[...]
And while we were fighting, they surrounded us, being hard for us to keep up with them, such as we didn´t dare to charge at them if not all together, trying to prevent breaking our formation and disband; and whenever we attacked them, we found twenty of their battalions opposing us.
[...]
And while into the fray, among those great warriors and their fiersome greatswords, it appears that they decided to form a group of their strongest men to take hold of some of our horses. And they tried to do so charging at us and grabbing a fine mare, swift and well resolved, and also the knight riding it, proficient horseman, named Pedro de Morón. And since he broke into the enemy forces charging alongside three other horsemen, to help each other as ordered, They took hold of his spear, being unable to retrieve it, while others slashed at him with their greatswords, grievously wounding him. It was then when they cleaved at the mare, chopping her round neck. Its head hanging by the skin, there She fell dead. And if not quickly socorred by his companions, Pedro de Morón would have also been killed.
ORIGINAL IN 16th CENTURY SPANISH:
Y estando en esto, viene muy de presto y con furia un escuadrón de tascaltecas, que
estaban en celada, de más de tres mil dellos, y comenzaron a flechar en todos los
nuestros de caballo, que ya estábamos juntos todos, y dan una buena refriega de flecha
y varas tostadas, y con sus montantes hacían maravillas.
[...]
Entonces dijo Cortés: "Santiago, y a ellos". Y de hecho
arremetimos de manera que les matamos y herimos muchas de sus gentes con los tiros,
y entre ellos, tres capitanes. Y vanse retrayendo hacia unos arcabuesos, donde
estaban en celada sobre más de cuarenta mil guerreros con su capitán general, que se
decía Xicotenga.
[...]
Y andando en estas batallas, nos cercan por todas partes, que no nos podíamos
valer poco ni mucho, que no osábamos arremeter a ellos sino era todos juntos, porque
no nos desconcertasen y rompiesen; y si arremetíamos, hallábamos sobre veinte
escuadrones sobre nosotros, que nos resistían.
[...]
Y andando en estas priesas entre aquellos grandes guerreros y sus temerosos montantes, paresce ser acordaron de se
juntar muchos dellos de mayores fuerzas para tomar a manos algund caballo. Y lo
pusieron por obra arremetiendo, e echan mano a una muy buena yegua y bien revuelta
de juego y de carrera, y el caballero que en ella iba, buen jinete, que se decía Pedro de
Morón. Y como entró rompiendo con otros tres de a caballo entre los escuadrones de los
contrarios, porque ansí les era mandado porque se ayudasen unos a otros, échanle mano
de la lanza, que no la pudo sacar, y otros le dan de cuchilladas con los montantes, y le
hirieron malamente. Y entonces dieron una cuchillada a la yegua, que le cortaron el
pescuezo redondo y, colgada del pellejo, allí quedó muerta. Y si de presto no
socorrieran sus compañeros de a caballo al Pedro Morón, también le acabaran de
matar.
Another idea could be to rework how unique units work for the Aztecs. Aztec infantry units could automatically upgrade to a unique version (Jaguar or Skull Knight) when they reach a certain number of kills. These upgraded unique versions should be significantly buffed as compared to the generic infantry but then again it won't be easy to stack and preserve them. The balancing on that could be difficult but its an interesting way to change the Aztec mechanics and also bring it a bit closer to history.
Loved the campaign for Jaguar Warrior of Tenochtitlan
Cuautemoc my boy!
every time a enemy dies within a specific range Jaguar Warriors gets +1 damage (maximum +4). Still Expensive but if they start rolling they snowball hard. and it would work with the History of capturing enemys.
in civ jags can convert enemy warriors they beat into workers to integrate the capturing part into the game. with pop limit this isn't nearly as useful but maybe? every 4th or 5th unit a jag kills respawns as aztec vil? that also add a value to using the strong aztec monk to heal up jags after battle.
Make Jaguar Warriors faster and make them buff not themselves but the Eagles nearby would make them more interesting and thematic.
THAT'S COOL
Yeah, make them same speed and give a buff to other infantry nearby.
"an anti gunpowder option is maybe more what Aztecs need from a unique unit" - Moctezuma II c.e. 1519
Jaguar Warriors is my favorite UU when I was a little child with berserk being closely behind. Only because Aztec military voicelines sounds fierce and cool.
Our beloved jagwire warrior
I've heard jaguwire too.
Jag-you-are
@@highhorseo7875 British people mispronouncing the Spanish name for the American cat is my favorite! I want to hear a Brit say 'ocelotl' as well.
@@AtlasJotun blame the translation. The various letters work very differently between languages, so only natural that it would come out like that. Chinese to English is even worse.
@@tyranitararmaldo I would contend it's much more a case of Brits not bothering with replicating native pronunciation. Lindybeige (Lloyd) has said something to the effect of 'Why don't I enunciate French correctly? Because I'm not French!' on several occasions. His implication is that regardless of what one's native accent does to a particular word, it's inconsequential so long as the word is still understood.
Also, I should perhaps clarify that I wasn't being facetious; I truly enjoy the way Brits pronounce 'jaguar'.
In Empires Apart (an obscure RTS released as a way to improve upon AOE2), Aztecs could actually capture enemy workers. Their whole playstyle revolved around raiding enemy economy and gaining new captives. The jaguar warriors in that game could run like eagles in aoe2 and were key to that playstyle.
@@DaddyMouse the Aztecs built probably one of the worst societies in known history. If it wasnt for the diseases most people in the region were probably better off under Spanish rule.
A good feature for jaguars would be that they get a % or a fixed amount of health back when they kill a unit.
Why? They were infantry, not vampires.
@@happymradrian lmao
@@happymradrian cause was an thing, the aztecs eat the defeat enemies to "steal" the strenght so makes sense the vampire thing
@@-shadow2407 well vikings believed that about killing wild animals like wolves, bears etc, so should vikings get boosts like that as well when killing hunt animals and wolf type animals? note that the aztec case is that they BELIEVED eating their enemies made them stronger but actually propably was more of a health risk, so I guess viking bonus would be more justified. besides the aztec belief wasn´t unique to them anyway, (propably same for vikings too)
I'd imagine the vast majority of units (especially infantry units) don't get enough kills for this feature to matter
Spirit of the Laundromat changed my Life!
Interesting how Garland Wars benefits more Champions than Jaguar Warriors (assuming equal resources and so more champions). In the test that was shown Garland Wars added 40 dmg to Jaguars (4 x 10 units) vs 60 to champions (4 x 15 units)
rly good point actually, another indication that a good approach might be to modify their cost for massability. although a big ball of infanty kind of has diminishing returns due to surface area so maybe not idk
@@WizardyDylan The cost isnt aways the main problem but the fact that you need catles who are limited in numbers and ofthen very far apart from each other.
@@stefankatsarov5806 You can't fix that
@@stefankatsarov5806 The cost is Do the main problem. i explain. (For me) The supplies Tech is bad as a concept, the impact of that tech is not just "militia line Cheaper", but to "change the resources values of the statistics that set the price of the militia line". imagine for a moment that we have another supplies but for Knigth line. (Not for Cavalry, just for knigth line), that would impact first of all, to those civs that Dont have this tech, cause equal knigths statistics but different resources cost, made them different in Cost/efficiency Hence the most cost-efficient will prevaling. (thats what happens with militia line, although there are specific exceptions, The only militia playable are those with supplies tech.), the effect of this imbalance extends beyond the militia line and impacts the infantry in general. If there is a kind of Supplies for knigths not just will impact knigths line, but all cavalry. Camels would be less cost-efficient, cavalry archers, etc. generating an imbalance in the cavalry line.
Thats what actually happens with the infantry line.
@@stefankatsarov5806 But Castles producing Jaguars while the barracks produce eagles just makes too much sense.
A slightly faster creation time to compensate for castles, 5 gold cheaper, +1 pierce armor and then change the Elite bonus from +2/0 to +1/+1 (so its +2 pierce armor vs. live on EJW)
Nerfing Garland Wars to either +2 on Champions/pikes or only effecting Jaguar/eagle warriors to keep from overbuffing Aztec while making the Jaguar more distinct and applicable
"The Aztecs need an anti gunpowder unit" Some things don't change, even after half a millennium.
I think a good buff would be if all Mesoamerican UU did bonus damage against gunpowder units, that or change armour of Eagle runners like how coyote runner in aoe3 is it's own unit and not infantry.
Atlatl elite skirms or condottieri w/ italian ally?
A possible patch would be jaguar warriors refund part of their gold cost when killed.
It would bring the cost of their loss closer to the sword line while still making them expensive to produce.
It's always lovely to see a video from SoTL right after coming home from work.
Takes away your tiredness 😻
**Here is your mandatory comment saying: "Oh, we are getting Aztec's Overview soon."**
The omen has been fulfilled. There must be one.
I don't think they generally change the attack speed of melee troops, but seeing how much overkill the Jaguar warriors had when fighting infantry, I wonder if a higher attack speed with a lower damage bonus versus infantry would balance out.
would be kind of cool if Jaguar Warrior replaced the swordsman line in castle age for Aztecs.
The 2 units are so similar anyway and there is precedent to something similar with Steppe Lancers, Elephants, and Camels replacing the Knight Line in other civs.
make the Aztec Swordsman line look like:
Militia>Man At Arms>Jaguar Warrior(Castle Age)> Elite Jaguar Warrior(Imp)
I would also say it's fine if they also produce Jaguar Warriors in both Castles and Barracks. Just keep the production speed balanced.
That's like a free two handed swords upgrade. Nothing game breaking but a big infantry boast.
tbf Mesoamericans already replaced the Scout with eagles
Honestly, the civ as a whole deserves a bit more love these days. Like, if 99% of people can't make them work, and even some of the 1% like Hera are saying they're out of the meta atm, i think a general buff would be nice 😢
As for Jaguars themselves, you could go the old Viking route by adding bonus damage to cavarly in Garland Wars, though I agree that making them faster would make them feel better to play
I want to see elite eagles slightly buffed to 70 base hp (reducing El Dorado to +30). Gives meso better late game while not breaking them early on. The problem with eagles is once it becomes too easy it instantly becomes OP.
@@daarom3472 the problem there is that then Incas run away with Elite Huskarl equivalents that have bonus against a bunch of stuff 😅
Honestly, I wouldn't mind Mayans and Aztecs getting regional units in the same vein as the Slinger to patch them up while also making them more unique overall. As to what units could thoss be, I don't really know, my mesoamerican history's a bit rusty atm ;-;
@@Terry_T_ODST dont think the mayans really need a buff to be fair
@@Terry_T_ODST not comparable. Huskarls do more than twice the damage vs archers and are not hard countered by the militia line. The issue with eagles is that they are way too cost efficient in castle age but get absolutely mopped up by top tier cavalry.
@@ralfwolters3843 no, but more flavor is always welcome 👀👌
They should have a raiding bonus like food back or converting vils
I would make them almost as fast as eagles and give them more hp, but maybe make them more expensive. They would come out as an aztec infantry cataphract of some sorts. You would see them more often in an eaglewarrior composition and in game in general. Moreover it would add a tiny bit of historical spice seeing more actual mesoamerican warriors in the game for us romantics amongst the players.
Literally the only channel I don’t skip through adds on. You just present your sponsor with so much class and creativity.
Jags are an essential part of my "naked fast castle and panic when the ai rolls up with a ram"-strat. So give them 50 anti siege bonus to make them better in their role! 😂
Another unique business idea! Cool improvement ideas, the speed one is very cool. Fun watching your podcast with TheViper and Masmorra a few weeks back too
New SotL squarespace sponsor means new SotL pun!
Fun fact: the weapon the Jaguar Warrior wields is called the _macuahuitl_ (mac-oo-ah-till).
The _macuahuitl_ was not a uniquely Aztec weapon, and was used by most of the major South American powers of time (including the Mayans). Despite being shaped like one, with two edges of sharpened obsidian, it was *not* a sword; but rather a club. The weapon was designed to inflict heavy blunt force and bleeding to a target, causing broken bones to cripple and lacerations that would not be fatal. It's primary purpose was not to kill (it could still kill, obviously), but to maim and allow an enemy to be captured for enslavement or for rituals (this is also why promotion to jaguar warrior was dependent on _capturing_ enemies, not killing them; the dead cannot work as slaves of for rituals).
Additional macuahuitl fact. It's the scientific term for the tail club found on the South American dinosaur Stegouros.
@@tyranitararmaldo True!
Although the _stegouros_ is classified as an _ankylosaur_ and not a _stegosaur,_ its tail is similar to the "thagomizer", named after the late Thag Simmons, of the _Stegosaurus._
@@Thescott16 honestly it's hotly debated what this little guy is up to. It's diverged a lot from ankylosaurs, so when did it arrive in South America and become isolated?
I love this guy. Who has ever liked hearing the TH-camr mention the sponsor in the middle of the video? Nobody. But he knows the way: create a random situation or joke and tie it to the sponsor.
Jaguar warrior should be a barracks unit, like slingers or genitours and give them another UU for the castle
Who would it be? We have Eagles and Jaguars already, Incas have Slingers... Even Warrior Priests were already taken by Armenians.
@@kristaskrastina2863 maybe a high priest, that can buff nearby units like the Roman UU
@@kristaskrastina2863 or a blowgun type of unit. Maybe a fast glascanon like unit
Well, ever played Medieval II Total War Americas? In that game the Aztecs can train a javalin thrower/infantry with massive anti armour capabilities which, after ran out of ammo, can perfectly fit the roll of infantry. Although sounds too familiar to the skirmisher, and arguably a potential unique tech for aztecs skirmishers to become dual unit like the Bengalis Ratha, (in fact the weapon they used is the 'atlatl', aztecs CA unique tech) it could be a potential replacement for the UU.
After the legionary came out, I've always thought many UU should be the de facto replacement for the champiom or even the paladin in some civs, like Byzantines: cataphract substitutes the paladin or the varangian guard instead of champion.
Wouldn't really fix it's current unviability.
They "solved" the issue in AoE3 by a) not giving Aztecs any historically questionable swordsmen b) making the Jaguar Knights beat infantry AND cavalry in melee, with their big weakness being Musketeers and especially Rifle Infantry and artillery, basically gunpowder units.
i appreciate you giving your personal input on possible changes.
also, i think youre right. a 30% increase in bonus damage and a 10 or 15% increase to speed would be all they need. +0/1 more armor is also rational, and 9sec creation time too.
only *one* of these changes could dramatically bring Aztecs back into the picture.
secondly, I think it's time we discuss seriously unlocking TR for Aztecs.
@SpiritOfTheLaw I would love a video with just all your website puns for squarespace adds in one place (maybe an April fools video) but even if it has nothing new or aoe related technically, you have so many people who love those puns and would love to have a single video to watch to see and love all of them in one place.
Really loving these Spirit of the Laundromat ad drops lmao
I'd love it so much if they got an anti cav bonus. Aztecs just don't have an answer to a knight mass (don't say slightly higher HP monks can deal with 50 knights) plus it'd be so fun to have another competitive unique unit.
I like the suggestion of an on-kill bonus. An interaction with relics or monks could be interesting. Recharging a nearby monk's faith instantly might be interesting, if a bit niche.
Since Aztecs are known as a monk civilization, maybe jaguar warriors could be affected by fervor and sanctity. Or if we're going crazy, give them a charge bar like monks and let anything they kill while fully charged be converted. Or maybe just any villagers they kill.
Thats actually a really clever option
I really think they should be faster - not eagle warrior fast, but close enough. And have decent melee armor, to contrast with eagles.
You know what we need in unique units next? A tamer (has a pet, can be retrained on dead), a shielder (regains shield out of combat) and a shielder shielder (shields another nearby unit) and a phalanx shielder (monaspa inverse where units gain armor)
Sometimes I wish we had an extra military building that can train unique units only, similar to the Krepost and Donjon. Maybe make it have a stone cost still (a third of a castle maybe?) and no techs. You could also lock it behind a castle tech, so you still have to make that first big investment but afterwards it's easier to mass unique units. Also, should CA civs like Mongols become too broken with such a building, you can just lock the tech for these civs and only give it to civs with infantry unique units, for example.
What can I say, I just like unique units and wish I could go for them in every game :D
Fun fact, that sacred drink, pulque is now a common drink in mexico
It would be cool that they gain attack or armor if your monks get 4 conversions. 0:39 "they have to capture 4 enemies"
Seeing how they've expanded into more asymmetric and unique design with recent civ bonuses and units, maybe a special bonus that has them interact in a unique way with the monks that are strongly encouraged for the Aztec gameplan would be good. Maybe they could receive double healing from monks, which would make their slightly higher defensive stats over the longsword more pronounced, or maybe something like providing faster recharge speeds for monks' conversion ability while nearby as they help "capture" prisoners. Those are some very rough ideas but might be fun to see. If gold value is the problem, maybe they could be like the Keshik and generate gold when they are attacking or killing Villagers and/or infantry as a sort of "capture" mechanic.
One thing that I wish the designers had done initially was to let the Jaguar warriors be much more tanky with less attack (but still keep their massive infantry bonus). This still lets them dominate other infantry, but it shifts their usefulness outside of that niche to being a tank for more damaging units. This may not match well with their physical design, but it fills an important niche left in the Aztec design while still keeping their focus on infantry. On top of this, if the elite upgrade makes the unit even tankier, you can now choose initially between making your jaguars tankier with the elite upgrade or hit harder with garland wars.
Also, this might be controversial, but am I the only one that thinks Jaguar warriors should have a bonus against trash units? I get that might be way too overpowered in trash wars, but what better way to establish dominance over infantry by straight up flattening pikeman and skirms. This can also play into the historical origins of the jaguar warrior, since they were mostly focused on capturing, and I feel like trash units would be easier to capture. It would also provide a fairly unique counter to the civs like the Malay, Persians, and Magyars who get rid of gold cost on their units.
The fact that this video was released the same day as the new DiabloIV expansion which heavily showcases Jaguar-like warriors... is even more sign that SoTL is top notch youtuber....
Oh what's up!? I've been only playing age 4 for the last few years so I haven't watched too much of your stuff for a while, but interesting to see your video come up and it's from only one day ago
With this video series I get more and more the feeling that most unique units are barely better than their generic counterpart. And I think that's a sad design choice. Needing castles to produce them should make them de-facto much stronger than their counterparts, and push players to almost always go for their unique units. It would add a lot of variety to high level games where it's mostly archers and knights every game. It's really a shame that Samurais and Jaguar warriors are so rare. I think the case of Lithuanians, where Leitis are almost always in play and picked instead of knights, should be the case for every unique unit.
8:51
If you hadn't said "no pun intended" I wouldn't have thought you intended a pun.
Now I know damn sure you intended a pun.
Hey man, I know the Rhythm by now. First the Unique Unit, then the Civ Overview next...When is the Aztecs Overview coming out? Roughly how many days?
Can’t wait to visit Spirit of the Laundromat! What a great business idea 😂
8:03 historically accurate scene
I think an interesting buff would be to give them extra infantry armour, not as much as a Condo but it would help in several matchups Aztec's struggle against.
+2/+4 for regular/elite would be enough to take an extra hit from HC and improve the matchup against the other Meso civ UU.
So much of this game seems built around the idea of infantry as a main unit alongside archers and cavalry. But the designers are never willing to commit to letting that happen.
Something I wish you could have included more is a greater comparison between the Jaguar warrior and the Aztec archer line.
When you look at meso civs, the lack of a knight line means limited options for dealing with infantry. Incas have archers and slingers, Mayans have archers and p. Archers so then when we look at Aztecs and their bad archers, that's when we see the Jaguar warrior fit a niche.
I like the suggested ideas, my suggestion would be to make the Jaguar Warrior the upgrade to longswords, with increased speed.
The advantage I see for Jaguars is similar to a lot of other UUs, it’s a very fast switch. Militia line is PAINFUL to try to make in Imp if you’re not already making them, because no matter how many barracks you have, you still need the upgrades. But if you have the castles, Jags can be murdering siege rams or enemy Eagles for you very quickly, especially if you have infantry armor etc already for your own Eagles.
I believe the garland wars tech could be reworked to reflect the jaguar warrior's elite status obtained through bloodshed and it's effect on the enemies, with a cumulative damage bonus of up to +4 based on kills, and specifically in the case of jaguar warriors, also an attack debuff on close melee enemies, due to intimidation. It would make them take better fights against other infantry, but also against cavalry, without really making them broken.
Your business names are all fantastic 👏 👌
I do 100% agree that Jaguar Warriors need a buff. If they aren't even the ideal unit against other infantry units(Halberdier line) compared to the Champion than what good are they? They're simply too expensive for what they bring to the table, and the comparison to the Samurai here is fitting as they're both extremely niche units who fulfill a very similar role. So the idea of making them cheaper and reducing their creation time is 100% fitting. With that said I also like your speed suggestion as for practical reasons Aztecs generally mix in Eagle Warriors with their preferred heavy infantry(Jaguars Warriors or Champions) so allowing the Jaguar Warriors to keep up with their Eagle Warrior brethren seems like a nice idea. But than the Champions are slower than the Eagle Warriors and are still used in conjunction with them so it's not nearly as significant of a buffing avenue as their cost and creation times. On the other end of the spectrum they could use some stat buffs instead to justify their significantly higher cost, however that would make them more of a jack of all trades unit rather than a hyper specialized one like it currently is, which is probably too big of a change. Therefore cost and creation time reduction seem to be the best course of action that won't impact Aztecs balance too much but make the unit itself much more viable in its intended role and much less of a liability otherwise.
Could give Jaguar warrior a "charge attack" of +10 damage which is only filled when it kills a unit, meaning the more units the kill, the faster you can continue killing them. Would also pair them nicely with an onager that can weaken a big group of enemies, which will lead to a bunch of Jaguar charge attacks steamrolling them.
An anti-cavalry bonus could sort of work given the tales of obsidian weapons being able to behead horses clean.
Exactly!
To be precise, it most definitely wasn't "clean", but likely cut through the skin and shattered the spine. So definitely a killing blow, but not THAT sharp
Steel can behead horses clean much better. (Check out japanese Nodachi)
Obsidian is too brittle and it's not prioritises lethality.
You see, Aztecs cared more about capturing people than killing them.
That's why capturing was so important to become a Jaguar Warrior.
@@FirstLast-wk3kc To be fair obsidian is sharper then steel. It is far more brittle, but in terms of a cutting edge it is one of the sharpest materials known.
@@EagleTopGaming Sure, but then again, those weapons were specifically designed to be creepling over lethal.
For capturing people for ritualistic use or slavery.
Jaguar Warriors definitely have one of the coolest styles of all unique units.
Idea 3 is my favorite. Make them able to keep up with eagles so they can cover each others weaknesses.
Give Jaguar Warriors a short-range charge ability like Zealots in Starcraft on a timer kinda like the Coustillier have a charged-attack bonus on a timer. It would be thematic because Jaguars are from the cat family that are known to pounce on their prey and quickly close short distances.
So changes for them to consider
+5% movement speed.
5 gun powder resistance -> 8 for elite
Elite upgrade grants one more pierce armor making them notably better against archers compared to champions.
Elite upgrade bonus against infantry increased from 11 to 14 to make them more clearly cost efficient against infantry.
Calvary bonus seems like historically accurate to some extent as it also mentioned by the Spanish how their obsidian clubs were able to cut down horses
Top 5 Squarespace plug imo
Honestly, You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
We need something innovative. I'd suggest a feature where the Aztec Champion upgrades to a more powerful Jaguar Warrior after achieving a certain number of kills (2-4, for balance). This would not only add depth to gameplay but also align with the historical Aztec background, where warriors earned greater status through victories.
Additionally, they could update the aesthetics of the Champion unit for all Meso civilizations (just visually), to further enhance immersion.
Watching this fights i again get reminded how bad pathing really is 11
I think 5% speed boost and +5HP would be a good start. Would make them better at chasing infantry, while also making them slightly better at avoiding being wrecked by archers and cavalry.
Issue is that Aztec is currently being dogged by steppe lancers and other non infantry units. Might just be better to give them another bonus, like rebuffing their military production speed or eco bonus.
How about a charge attack that only works against Calvary? This could be a cool reference to the story of an Aztec warrior who cut the head off of a horse in one blow during the siege of Tenochtitlan with a Macuahuitl [huge obsidian sword]. It would also be in alignment with other infantry civs without halberdier to have a cav attack bonus on their unique unit like the Vikings.
I could see the Jaguar being an anti-infantry specializing Champion replacement, like the Persian Savar or Roman Legionary. A sidegrade wish shuffled stats and a faster movespeed, then give them a new Unique Unit.
The best thing about Jaguars and Obuchs is their attack sound
The word: "Jaguar"
Anglos: "JAGGWUOAIRE"
I heard someone pronounce it as "JAG-you-war" the other day
What's the correct pronunciation I'm German I wouldn't know
Hah-war
@@chungus816 hah-wahr or hah-goo-ar
@@willidk628 This person is correct.
They seem very much a team game focussed unit, where you have the gold to create them and where your team mates can cover against some of their worse matchups and where you are covering for your team mates.
Either way I feel they should definitely outperform swordsmen line when both fully upgraded regardless.
Jaguarrior!
I wonder if these guys should have close to Eagle speed. They aren’t wearing heavy armor and it could help them against ranged units that aren’t micro’d well, plus it would differentiate them further from the Militia-line of their own faction.
Edit: Oh good, SotL suggested it.
a buff for the aztecs, could be make garland wars be more effective on jaguar and eagles, so instead of a +4 in attack, be a +6 and a small speed buff to jaguar to be on part with non elite eagle warriors
One way I'd give the jaguars a carrer would be by giving them armor shred, like obuchs, but only on buildings. It would make them still a niche, but a wider one.
intellectually i KNOW that the zany segue to your sponsor is coming, but every single time I keep being tripped up by it. "why the heck is he suddenly talking about the quality of the jaguar warrior's outfit"
I'd say that they just need to buff their movement to match the eagles and a bit faster attack speed, that would solve all their issues and make'em better overall imo.
P.D. Congrats to SOTL on branching and diversifying who'd knew he would be a grand entrepreneur apart from an AOE2 enthusiast? 👀
IMO the Jaguar warriors anti-infantry design doesn’t give it a strong identity and doesn’t really capture what Jaguar warriors were in a historical context either.
The Aztecs weren’t just at a disadvantage because the Spanish had Guns and Horses, they were also at a disadvantage because the Spanish had steel weapons.
Jaguar warriors wouldn’t really have a meaningful advantage in a head to head conflict with Spanish infantry either.
Jaguar Warriors were elite raiders who specialized in capturing hostages.
There are accounts (though likely exaggerated) that their weapon, the Macuahuitl, could cut the head off a horse in a single stroke. This is owing to the incredible sharpness-and noteworthy fragility- of their obsidian blades.
This meant that the Macuahuitl was a weapon which could be used once or twice before it would need to have its blades replaced.
So if we put all this info together, the Jaguar warrior should be redesigned like this;
They should reduce or remove its counter infantry bonus.
They should make it move faster-potentially as fast as an eagle warrior
It should grant the player resources equal to a percentage of the value of every unit it kills
It should deal substantial bonus damage with its first attack in combat, recharging once every 20 or 30 seconds.
In this way, the Jaguar warrior would actually accurately reflect what it was historically, and fulfill a strategic niche that parallels what the Aztecs were actually like, historically.
Aztecs could gain an early advantage with their strong early economic bonuses, and then leverage that map control into a Military which ensures continued dominance by converting military success into an economic advantage.
I love Jaguar Warriors, and I think if there should be a buff with one of these options:
1.- More speed base + elite, more hp base + elite
2.- Much more speed base + elite, cheaper to train + elite more cheaper
Increase their attack by 1 in castle(11 attack) and imperial(13 attack) and reduce food cost to 55f. It will make them better value against infantry and cav(not paladin).
To me, jaguar feel like they should have high attack with their special clubs.
Idea: When the Jaguar Warrior dies the _jaguar_ comes back to life
On a more serious note, an anti-cavalry bonus could be justified, as their obsidian weapons were said to be sharp enough to cut through both horse and rider with a single stroke
(Though you might want to limit this to light cav and camel riders, since obsidian doesn't last long against actual armor...)
+1 or even +2 pierce armor and a +2 bonus to cavalry could help. Also a +3 to elephants might help.
Why? They have pikeman
Making them cheaper just makes them compete with their Champion-line.
They should buff the speed from 1 > 1.15 (+15%) = 1.26 w/squires.
Buff their HP from 65 > 70 & 75 > 85hp for Elite
This would make their cost worth it over the Champion line, It also gives them a powerful HP unit which they currently dont have.
Combining Eagles & Jaguars gives them a knight/Paladin-Like feel. Again focusing on giving the Aztecs a late game closing unit (aka unit combo)
The weakness to this is then
Gunpowder = Aztec Skirms
Elephants & Heavy Cav or Infantry = Aztec Monks
Gold heavy comp = Aztec Relic bonus
Production = Losing Castles means you just switch too Champions
Aztecs seem like they would benefit a lot from an Italian ally; Condottiero is a fast, kinda soft unit with anti-gunpowder properties, and they'd benefit from Garland Wars, making them a glass cannon unit.
Personally I also want to rework Samurai.
What I'd do is take the current Samurai UU bonus and give it to Jags without changing anything else about them. Straight buff against UUs. Now Jags have a real purpose that differentiates them from Champs.
Then for Samurai I'd give them their original design they were going to go with but found too hard. Give them weapon switching with each weapon have a bonus, so a good Samurai player can switch to what they need in the moment. Give them a cycle ability to cycle through their weapons.
- Yari Samurai (+10 anti-cav bonus, melee)
- Katana Samurai (+10 anti-infantry bonus, melee)
- Kanabo Samurai (+10 anti-siege bonus, melee)
- Yumi Samurai (no bonus, ranged attack)
amazing content as always
I always thought that Eagles and Jaguar warriors for the Aztecs were supposed to be used together to compliment each others weakness. That's how it always felt in game anyways.
With that being said, I would probably go with a speed and HP buff to the Jaguar Warrior. One helps with keeping up with Eagles and the other makes them more tanky. But heavy infantry need an HP buff overall imo.
Jaguar warriors should have a little bonus against cavalry as a nod to that myth that says a sharp Macahuitl was able to decapitate a horse in one swing.
Aztec Overview soon?
The anti-infantry unit that can't even beat all infantry
To be fair, the exceptions are a Tank, an Anti-Unique Unit, and high damage with armor piercing.
If they did then you would have an anti-unique unit that can't even beat every unique unit
@@Unormalism Clearly the stats need to be adjusted to have them all end in a perfect draw!
@@Predator20357 Roman Legions are also hard to handle with Jaguars. Due to their slow production speed, some champions with bonuses can overwhelm them in big numbers.
so an anti-melee unique infantry, an anti-unique unique infantry and an anti-infantry unique infantry walk into a bar.....
the counter just breaks.