Problem With The Status Quo Argument, It's Wrong
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I think the problem of preserving the "status quo" is comics are genuinely afraid of change. They want to keep that same target demographic (Spider-Man and Batman for example. Notice how they're never allowed to be happy romantically). They're worried that if they let the character grow and change, it'll move away too much.
"change" / "status quo" is a double edge sword. for example, jason aaron "changed" she-hulk and everyone hated it. now with rainbow rowell writing the character people are happy that she doesn't look and act like the characterization from jason aaron's avengers. we can go to the aged up jon kent / alfred's deaths. on a more personal angle for me i'm fine with those changes, but there are fans that hated it and want the status quo to return. both change or status quo aren't inherently good or bad. it's about how it's used in a story. does the change enhance the potential of a great story or does it "ruin" what was a great status quo?
@johnthai6188 you make a strong valid point there. It depends on how it's executed as well.
@@bampowbang6898 also not everyone is going to like changes in general. what does change do to characters? changes to characters means moving the character forward to a new direction: from where they were before. there are some fans will not like the change because sometimes, in their mindset of the character's story / status quo, it goes against the character. for example look at the fans of damian vs the fans of tim drake. giving bruce a biological son was, in my opinion a great change, but some fans of batman and a lot more fans of tim drake hated it. they thought giving bruce a biological son goes against the point of the robins.
I think the issue with that argument is that changes are constantly occurring, it's just not the changes people expect out of the stories. And it's not just comics that refuse to change. Goku hasn't changed as a character since the end of the frieza arc. Gohan was considered to become the new protag after cell saga but the author was afraid of the change so he scrapped it and kept Goku. Pokemon likewise had Ash with a soft reboot every 2 years for the past 10+ years.
I think the problem is more, that they set up a a lot of Chekhov's guns, but most of them are duds or underwhelming. There are some big changes, but there are also a lot of fake-outs, too much.
"status quo" for X-Men is that mutants are at threat of being eradicated from existence. As much as i love the current run I wouldn't mind to get the X-Men being heroes and dealing with villains and their schemes, let the X-men be loved rather than making humanity their villain
X-Men have gone back to "status quo." The mutants are being targeted by Orchis, Krakoa has been rendered inert, the mutants have broken up into factions - some are even fighting with each other - and a new "X-Men" team was assembled a few years back. It's gone back to 80's -90's era of stories.
Usually for me the status quo, in terms of comic books can be a good thing or bad thing depending on what sort of character you are discussing but for sometimes I prefer a little bit of new ideas brought to our proverbial table if you will.
I think nothing has consequences is a more appropriate term for this arguments instead of status quo
Yeah, I can agree with that
I was kind of thinking that as well. But his argument about it in US comics vs Japanese manga would still be the same cause it also happens a hell of a lot in manga as well.
@@kemosobe Idk the biggest manga right now JuJutsuKaisen, I dont wanna spoil anything but, has a lot of meaningful story going on. S2 spoilers is what brought me back to reading jjk
Popular manga is POPULAR, because it's the home base for people who also read OTHER MANGA in contained, complete arcs, with actual characters and not everyone rebranded to Spider-Man. They don't want to know that 20 years from now they're just reading the 5th reboot of JJK.
Add on top of that some slope-heads who ONLY read tween boy series religiously and nothing else, like DBZ, which by all accounts is an entire DIFFERENT fandom making DIFFERENT arguments.
That's the difference. Baman and piderman have ONLY the latter audience. And Marvel and DC copyrighted the term "superhero" so who saw his coming? You wanna know WHY, or HOW, isekai based on 40-year-old Japanese culture of being DnD fans, is so popular that it transferred to, uh, EVERY MOBA? Freedom of thought, not indentured servitude to IP. That's what Japan has over Fair Use. Toby Fox escaped from the yoke of making Earthbound fan-fiction and so can you, but not if you write officially for Marvel because "superhero" is a banned trademark to privately monetize without their permission.
@@vincentflannigan2727 Mushoku Tensei has also done a great job at telling a meaningful story. And I can pull a very small, select examples from comics to prove otherwise too. Doesn't mean the medium, as a whole, is that way though, sadly.
And really, it doesn't matter anyway. People should learn to just like something because they like it rather than hating stuff because everyone else tells them to. I'm kind of an SAO apologist in a way because most of the complaints people have with it are stupid as hell and in everything else.
The thing with manga is a big chunk of it totally is Status Quo-y but it's directly the fault of a bad writer or rushed writing (due to insane deadlines) whereas comics (of which like manga there are plenty of narrative concise Status Quo-less comics) suffer from editorialization, cancellations, and multiple writer syndrome which makes it difficult for characters to keep a tonally consistent arc (or even just characterization or even just not aborting the arc halfway through) which makes the character/story/world changes be more easily missed/dismissed if not closely followed someone might assume they're a one-off thing or something that's gonna get abandoned right after the specific comic run and not a major persistent universe change
I've hardly ever heard of manga with writers sharing a interconnected universe or taking over a series/character, so they're able to be more consistent which makes tiny changes vary apparent
(Most time skips suck imo, it always just feels like the writer hit a arc/plot wall and was like "fuck it, let's just fast forward")
Thank you for discussing these topics.
Thanks for the great video as usual, Comicstorian. You are literally my favourite comicbook youtuber. Love the channel.
Being a 90s kid I remember going to a store that had a comics section and i used to remember being enticed by the fact that comics werent like the TV shows, that they were so much wilder and crazy. People will never understand how insane the infinity gauntlet story was when all we had on tv was spiderman and xmen cartoons. I feel like instead of being insane, now comics have to be more tame in hopes of getting an adaptation
Dude I really needed to hear this from you. All of the comic book hate has been making me sad lately. I read someone saying terrible shit about Gerry Duggan and I couldn’t understand why. I actually read so many current books from Marvel and I’m thoroughly enjoying what’s going on across the board. ❤️
I'm happy you're enjoying the comics you've been reading. For me I've been getting a few mini-series alongside The Miles Morales: Spider-Man 2022 run, I've been reading like Spider-Man India and Silk and I've been having a lot of fun with both runs. While Miles is my main focus, I've been trying to branch out and try new books. It's been great so far and I am also sad with all of the comic book hate towards both Marvel and DC, because the comics are great.
@@windghost2 oh nice!! I want to read Spider-Man India. I’m reading Spine Tingling Spider-Man rn, hoping to get spooked haha
@@amoeba_x I’ve still have yet to get that series, but I’ll start grabbing the paper backs in a few more weeks.
Personally, I don't think a return to status quo a bad thing. Spencer's Spider-man was amazing. The big problem I have is when writers repeatedly tease character growth only to continuously do a rug pull. I don't mind dark, brooding Batman, but him consistently possibly getting better/making up with his family only to then fall back is annoying. Spencer's run teased a reunite between Peter and MJ only to have the next run messily break them up. It is hard getting invested in a character's story when the next run makes the themes of that story pointless.
The obsession with Status Quo is why Anime and Manga have gotten so popular and what made them appeal to me so much. In the 90s.
Each run is its own story
I like that the status quo in Batman has always been changing. I've been reading since 2016, and maybe the status shifts are forced, but most of the following runs after Tom King left (or got kicked off, but I choose to ignore that part) have built off the previous. Nothing has really been thrown out, not even the numbering for the issues. Once this volume of Batman ends, maybe there'll be a soft reboot (setting the numbering back to 1 and ignoring the effects of the last 100+ issues), but I'll always remember the book as it was during this era.
Indeed😊
I love the points you are bringing to the conversation
I think the biggest problem with the status quo are the things that they are willing to change. It's clear that the status quo is very subjective and this is the problem. When you complete a hero's journey through an arc, there should be lessons to be learned and growth, even if you want things to remain the same. This is why Green Lantern from Rebirth through Blackest Night was so amazing. These changes allowed the world as a whole to grow and develop while allowing Hal Jordan to remain who he is. The characters like Carol Ferris were allowed to grow and develop. And when it was all over, the world returned to what it was with the revival of some characters. This is how the status quo should "change" but also "remain". These developments stayed until the introduction of Relic, which changed the emotional spectrum to a limited source of energy.
As a hulk fan I’d argue the status quo is hulk and Bruce have beef. They came to terms with each other and made good character progress by the end of immortal which was thrown out the window in the starship hulk run. I gave up on that run so I’m a little behind and haven’t started the new run yet so I can’t speak to what it’s done
Starship Hulk caused them to have beef again but Hulk is currently pissed at Banner
Now Hulk wants Bruce either dead or permanently gone. It is so dumb to throw out loads of successful character growth just for some tension that could be caused by any number of other things. It's like with Thor. He has to search for himself and the meaning of his purpose in every single run it feels
@@SageOfLimitlessHands that's usually because these characters' stories and themes are timeless. so often, characters relearn the same lessons over and over again: but that can be a double edge sword.
Pro: these characters stories / themes can stand the test of time forever.
examples being
Superman: fighting for the people that can't fight for themselves.
Batman's ongoing fight with the madness that runs his city. (should he kill the joker)
Spider-man: trying to find balance.
fantastic four: being a part of a family is more important, than being alone.
X-men: fighting for a sense of equality.
Hulk: internal struggle with your inner monster.
I could go on, but i hope i made my point.
Con: the fact that they are timeless characters / stories means they will relearn the same lessons and repeat the same conflicts.
@@johnthai6188 But you can still be timeless without going over the same thing back to back. Take a look at how manga does stories. There is a beginning and an end and they are as timeless as American comics. I think the issue is a lack of creativity and a fear to do something else and potentially fail
@@SageOfLimitlessHands as i would say marvel and dc tried to change this up to be "new" and people didn't want the new; they wanted the old. examples being the all new all different era of marvel and what was going to be 5g for the dc universe. the all new all different era of marvel was forgotten and 5g was thrown in the trash.
when it comes to manga, they are a single story that gets to end: not an ip farm that been going on for over 80 years.
I haven't been reading a lot of new stories. Immortal Hulk was the most recent full run I read. I enjoyed it, and liked the changes made to Hulk. I didn't care for Smashtronaught, but saw the potential. This is a thing of excecution of ideas, but also allowing characters to grow with the audience as well as bring in new readers. The "status quoe" of the Hulk is that he is on the run from some external or internal threat (military, avengers, or his trauma). Hulk as always stayed in his statis quoe, but the ideas have changed allowing his character to grow and bring in new readers
I don't have anything to say about the argument, but I just love these videos where it's just you are talking directly to the audience. You're an excellent entertainer regardless of the topic. I didn't even watch Loki, but I still watched your entire season 2 video.
The thing is that when most comics reboot, they reboot to avoid the status quo. A creator's run will always end with them 'putting the toys back in the box' and then the next writer comes in having got the job pitching a change to the status quo.
Idk it feels like the status quo is just a small part of a bigger issue in comics, where the story telling feels like a big circle. When you have multiple characters die and be brought back that adds to the circle. When you have characters that are around way too long and have no end goal, their storyline starts to feel like one big never-ending circle. When a character goes through a familiar situation (usually romantic) that readers have seen before, it adds to that circle. I think we're at a point in dc/marvel where there is too much circular storytelling and not enough linear storytelling. With no real way to confirm that those linear storylines/story beats won't just be turned into another circular one by walking things back. So because of this style of storytelling the execution has to be better every time it happens. You can have similar situations play out again but the bar gets higher every time you try to execute it. I would have more to say but this comment has been long enough.
A „back to Status Quo“ is a Hero coming back to life after death and becoming the same guy we used to know and love again. For instance „unworthy Thor“. That story drastically changed Thor with Jame Foster taking over and Jason Aaron retconing *a lot.* And if i remember correctly, Jane Foster was Thor from 2014 - 2018 and after that, Thor slowly became Thor again. But when Donny Cates took over in 2020, Thor essentially became the exact same again and all went back to how we know except Heimdall being dead. Thor, Hammer, Asgard, God of Thunder and even having the same look again. That’s a prime „back to Status Quo“ for me
This is my favorite Comicstorian segment. Thanks Benny
15:35 I can literally hear the pain in his voice wanting alfred back😭
First off there was a common saying in the comic collecting world "Everyone comes back except for Bucky and Uncle Ben". I remember hearing that all the way back in the 80's as a teen. I know Bucky eventually returned and broke the phrase, but it really goes to show permanent death in the comics has been rare from the beginning.
But the death of Superman was something else. I remember that Superman's death was on the national television news and in news papers, remember now this was pre-internet. Pre as in the Internet was there but no one had really heard of it and certainly was not in people homes. So for everyone to know shows you how the news of Superman impending death was a big thing.
I added the entire series to my pull list and the store owned just laughed and said "you and everyone else". We knew as a collectors it was going to be worthless but it should be a fun ride with all the crossovers. But the non comic reading populace was trying to snatch up as many copies as possible thinking they would retire in 30 years or something. Lol
As far as the status quo goes there was pleny of doubters of it being permanent. But everyone not into comics or kids mostly thought it was going to be permanent, especially with the news reporting on the death. This was an epic event being pumped up by DC, the comic shops and word of mouth by people not into comics.
If you were there then you would know people thought it was the end of an era. It is easy to read them now with hindsight an know it isnt going to be permanent. But back then with all the hype it was easy to think it was going to be the end of Superman.
This is easily your best argument video. I was on the other side on a lot of these topics and your points brought me over.
I never even considered the manga arguments, but they do check out and make sense. This might be my favorite "problem with" video because of how much it changed my mind.
The problem with trusting twitter with entertainement opinion is that twitter is 90% people just there to be angry.
The #1 problem with the internet is - TOO MANY APPEALS TO EMOTION. Want to get into comics? Start with trades, base your readings on stories, and don't pressure yourself to read every book featuring a character you like - just what interests you.
what i find funny is that the people that keep on saying it's hard to get into comics, because they don't know where to start. but it's not like, in this day an age, everyone has access to the internet with their phones; so they would be able to search up where to start reading.
@Comicstorian you gained a subscriber. Thank you for this! There is such a LOUD Minority that is out there polluting the culture that is now difficult to cut to the teeth of the comics and their properties. There is a problem with going back to things to appease the audience. There is work that need to be done; however, we do have an issue with folks who think EVERYTHING is wrong and nothing works unless it is there idea. so sad...
I'd say the real issue of assuming a status que is cause that's what every other media gives us. Even if Alfred has been dead in the comics since 2019, every other medium with Batman in it has him alive and well. Some changes will be popular enough to change the popular consensus of a hero like the addition of Damian or Miles Morales. But most people are introduced tothese characters through shows, movies, and games that do subscribe to status quos. Heck. People, myself included, were surprised that the insomniac Spider-Man wasn't a teenager even though he hadn't been one in the comics for decades. All because most other arguably more popular piece of media does have him as a teen. So seeing a return to status quo in the comics is an issue of confirmation bias, looking at certain stories that support it
Death of Superman was a big fucking event. I was there I remember it. I couldn’t believe they did that and they stuck with it for a whole year. Not to mention the ramifications of that story bringing Superboy and Steel and destroying Coast City the event that drove Hal Jordan insane and become Parallax. And when Superman came back we were not even sure if he was the real Superman!
Status quo is terrible. Character growth is minimal though. Norman Osborn was helping Sentry, and then he wasn't.
i wouldn't call status quo IS TERRIBLE. the idea behind status quo or change are tools to be used in storytelling. as a tools they are double edge swords. for example jason aaron "changed" she-hulk and everyone hated it. now with rainbow rowell writing the character people are happy that she is back to status quo. we can go to the aged up jon kent / alfred's deaths: where fans hated that change and want the status quo to return for those characters. on a more personal note, i'm fine with those changes. both change or status quo aren't inherently good or bad. it's about how it's used in a story. does the change enhance the potential of a great story or does it "ruin" what was a great status quo? also during the time when Norman Osborn was the leader of Hammer, HE WAS THE BAD GUY: HE MADE A CABAL OF VILLAINS TO RULE THE WORLD. so to say that Norman Osborn had "positive" character development to being a "good" person is odd for you to say: during that time.
To be fair to Kirito, the new dives are usually about saving someone. The first ALO dive was about saving Asuna. The first GGO dive was about saving other people from Death Gun. He goes to the Underworld because he needs medical treatment that only this Soul Reader or whatever they call it can provide. The Laughing Coffin metaplot is involved in 2/3 examples I just named, so it's not rebooting as much as it is continuing a meta-arc and a theme.
(For the record, I completely agree with you that the last time DC rebooted Batman was 2011. Problem is I was just trying to get into comics between 2011 and 2014, and it sucked being the new kid with a bunch of outdated lore obtained from wikis stuck in my head).
I read and enjoy both. I believe the main reason people say manga doesn't have a status quo/ complain about comics is more in line of how the story is told. Manga has a very linear story telling format. On the other hand comics tend to tell multiple stories at the same time and is usually all over the place (more chaotic). For example using S.A.O, Kirito doesn't just start a new VR game while playing the current one. He goes through the first one then goes into another one after that one is over with. Comics sometimes seems to have way too much going on and you are lost in the stories going on. This is why they're different and I do believe it's their respective strong suits but for people who only focus on reading one or the other I can see why they would be put off from either. Anyways, love your videos as always.
i feel like the change vs status quo discussion is more nuanced than people give it credit for. it's not an all or nothing idea: either comics should ALWAYS change or comics should ALWAYS go back to status quo. it's about how it's used in a story. does the change enhance the potential of a great story or does it "ruin" what was a great status?
Death of Superman was HUGE. We were crying and shit 😂😂😂
Benny while you have a point on the isekai id argue why ppl dont care to much is the fact that its usually a different character. a status quo in trend or genre isnt the same as a singular character rebooting over and over again even if they do look similar its still not the same
Actually i do read shonen jump, pretty much no isekai start on jump. Also benny gundam has been ongoing since the 70's. Its called the UC timeline. The witch from mercury is a standalone season kinda like an elseworld. I half agree with your point.
1:10 I was really expecting the bit to be followed with "and if you do that, you need to seek therapy", or something like that.
Just let Bruce and Selina be happy and I'm happy.
Dude Jojo bizzar adventure when they change protagonist’s the tone changes every one of Jojo chapters are so toneily different
I am inclined to believe that the problem with western comics is the concept of "floating timeline". Adult comics superheroes were seldom given the opportunities to age up, especially in case of popular superheroes. Spiderman is always a young adult in his 30s, Batman in his 40s, etc etc. The only time when they age is when an alternate story/universe is involved.
Miles Morales and Riri Williams are two of the examples that ages up, but even then they're now stuck in their teen/young adult age.
There are definitive status quos for many big heroes and trying to argue that they don’t exist because things aren’t exactly 100% same constantly is pretty weak. Iron Man is a billionaire playboy who runs Stark Industries and uses his armor tech to fight bad guys. Spider-Man is a dude who fights crime while crying about being broke and hated by the public. Now his status quo includes dating different women despite failing all relationships eventually because of being Spider-Man. For a long time his status quo had shifted to being married but it’s now over and won’t return. X-Men are based around a school for mutants and are hunted by bigots. Batman has a status quo that he is a playboy billionaire by day and crime fighting vigilante by night who often fights Joker. Sometimes he has sidekicks like Robin and other times he doesn’t. Alfred being his butler and confidante is also part of the status quo and the fact that he has been dead for a few years doesn’t change that. Big heroes always come back within a couple years of their deaths but supporting characters and especially minor characters can stay dead longer. However supporting characters like Alfred are part of the status quo and as such they will come back. I’d bet that Alfred is back within a year now since he died in 2019 and that is soon 5 years ago which is the average length of a shift in status quo.
*Claps for Benny staying on topic for an impressive amount of time*
For the past few months/years, I’ve been making headcanons and timelines on various DC heroes (i.e. Superman Family, Batman Family, Wonder Woman Family, Flash Family, Green Arrow Family, JLA, JSA, Marvel Family, Fawcett Heroes, Titans, Charleston Heroes, etc.). The reason why I’ve been doing this and posted them on a lot of comic channels (i.e. Comicstorian, Comic Breakdown, Comic Boom, Casually Comics, Nerdette’s Newstsnd, Thinking Critical, Comics by Perch, Weird Science Comics, Caped-Joel, Fortress of Solitude, ComicPOP, etc.) are seeing the results of the DC5G timeline and wanting to have a lot of DC heroes gain their character development, be happy with their personal and professional lives, age in real time or in sliding time, and wanting to create a legacy that would last many lifetimes to the future without getting screwed over by editorial mandates or the higher ups.
I’m a sucker for great character developments as long as us comic readers like said characters without getting screwed by the creators or editorial mandates.
I also want to make sure that all characters will be okay and that they will fulfill their role as characters and would see that they will have purpose as well as making sure that they will be complete with their lives without and reboots, resets, or status quo changes.
I like it how he has to specify what he means by minority. This is what the world has come to.
Speaking of status quo, Benny tries redecorating with a waifu cup on the floor. Dan reboots Benny and now the cup is on the shelf.
This video and the examples you use are perfect. When I tell you I have this playing in the background while putting laundry away and I hear Benny being up Dragon Ball GT and starting going in on it I laughed so hard I dropped some laundry🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don’t think “the status quo” is storyline being forgotten or not affecting the characters, it’s returning to a certain story arc and such.
For instance Spider-Man is happy dating someone, finds success in his career, is actually happy. Then returns to being single, broke, and struggling in his life.
Does Peter remember he had millions and a tech company? Yes. Does it play into where he is now? No he’s back to before he had that.
i would call that putting the toys back into the toy box. like how the FF broke up during civil war but dwayne mcduffie put the family back together again: during his FF run.
Same with Jason Todd Robin, he comes back over 20 years later with Captain America Bucky Barnes, the Winter Soldier, that didn't happen till over 30 years later so yeah back in the day when the character died most likely is going to be permanent nowadays it means nothing cuz they always come back
I'm pretty sure what is seen as return to status quo is really just trying to go back to a past period in time. Like just thinking about X-Men, of course a big example of a major status quo shift was the transition to the "Uncanny" team in 1975 from the original five, which for the record when you read the letters pages, people were upset about that despite X-Men running as reprints prior to that. But Chris Claremont's run never actually had a proper status quo ever, it was all pushing forward. What people perceive as the X-Men staus quo seamingly for shows and movies being (Xavier being important, The dynamic between Scott, Jean and Logan, with Scott and Logan always butting heads, Magneto, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, X-Mansion, etc.) came from when Jim Lee wanting to return the X-Men back to where they were when he was reading as a kid. But the Byrne era of X-Men was never really the status quo it was always in perpetual motion, The 1991 relaunch plus the animated series was created the "status quo" for X-Men but the point they were returning to was never a status quo stagnant period, they were chasing the classic feeling of those stories. Looking at the shows and movies, they would have you believe that Xavier and Magneto are essential characters, but if you go and read the Claremont run which is the "classic" run which is the bedrock for X-Men, you would probably be surprised at how often Xavier is either not in the book or in a reduced role and he can walk for most of it, what's more, Magneto is only really the villain in two stories. I am mostly convinced that status quo is really just a point in history that someone views as the peak of the past and has nostalgia for regardless of whether it sold the best comparative to the rest of the book's history.
The Hulk's Status Quo is Bruce Banner getting chased around the world by Thunderbolt Ross.
I normally use the Status Quo as a postivie thing in comics. To me saying "everything returns to the status quo" means "these characters are going go through changes, but in the end of the day they will always keep or return to the key values and things we love about the character". Thats what the status quo is to me anyways
Also small nerd note; Gundam has kne half that is connected and has been since the original series(MS: Gundam 78, Zeta/ZZ, Chars Counter Attck, Thunderbolt etc.) And then there are all the others series that take place in their own world (Witch of Mercury, Iron Blooded Orphans, 00, Wing, etc).
I like these "let's talk about it" videos
No, the problem is that they aren’t going back to the status quo. They keep retconning in crap that makes no sense to anyone like me who’s been/was reading for 30+ years. The industry has gone off the rails in a bad way.
Personally for comics status quo means what ever came before it like each runs status quo is a quick save if that makes sense
Can you do some polls where we vote for a problem with video? Loving the vids btw!!
I agree with you, but I think the problem is another one. The biggest problem with the internet is giving equal value to everyone's opinions, most of these people commenting on the status quo of comics and manga have never opened one. Unfortunately social media has put everyone on an equal footing, and that's fine from a certain point of view, but sometimes you give too much importance to people who years ago you wouldn't listen to for even 10 seconds
This is great content.
It explains so much.
I used to love Archie's Digest Comics back in the 90's and early 2000's.
I have read any Comics in a long time. 📚
Gundam nerd here: most Gundam has its own universe, but a lot of them have continuations, UC(universal century) is the one with the most anime series and continuation. The others are parallel universes or timelines
I think comics would benefit heavily from increasing the amount of limited series they release, I know ongoing are great and all, but I feel that the limited series allows for real true story telling to shine thru, and allows the authors to have an impact on the character without worrying too much about future stories and tie ins, plus they could be relatively new reader friendly.
Think James Bond anthologies, but for ur favorite characters, at least that’s what I think they should lean more towards.
i think part of the problem with limited series vs ongoing is how much people would want to read a mini-series of a character over an actual ongoing. for example, silk (cindy moon) at the moment gets only mini-series, and never gets an actual modern run; mind you, i love the character of silk. i would rather her have another ongoing than just more mini-series, because in a run the writer can flesh out the characterization and world more: than a mini-series would.
Not often i hear someone mistake spiderman for batman beyond, but when i do, i point and laugh 😂
Nah! When Superman died my 12 year old self cried like a girl and it wasn't fashionable to do that back then!
Benny is the first person I've seen that actually calls Twitter X
If they kill joker they have another joker in their other world
Status quo for Batman is Bruce being Batman and just generally fighting the typical rogues gallery (especially Joker) in Gotham.
Whether or not he’s actually in Wayne manor or even has a Robin at the time feels like details and doesn’t really matter.
Even this “losing his resources” I mean come on….he’ll still suddenly have a Batwing when he needs it or any other crazy gadget.
Heck hasn’t he had full blown robots that he’s messed SINCE losing most of his fortune?
And being “out of the bat family” is even more goofy because that’s just the writer’s excuse for him not to have to use them (because most readers prefer solo Batman) and yet we all know he can call them whenever he wants and they’ll come running.
Heck we’ve already had a minor team up since he became “out” (if your videos are done in proper order)
To be honest, a lot of your points could be dismissed by saying that you’re taking the arguments a little too literally and by arguing the exact amount of time it takes for things to reset.
It doesn’t matter if it’s 10 years or more, Alfred will come back.
Bruce will get resources back, the bat family will reunite, ect ect.
Your main argument is “y’all said it happens fast but here’s examples of things still taking place over decades”
But most of those things didn’t change the status quo: Jim once being mech Batman is canon and remembered but no one ever said everything gets forgotten. They said things go back to “normal” and sure enough Jim isn’t still mech Batman, is he? Joker’s face isn’t still cut off, is it? Things carrying over a while and remaining canon doesn’t change the fact the basic status quo always goes back to normal.
And even if something is permanently added (like Damian Wayne existing) it never gets in the way of the same old same old for too long.
So Batman will be Bruce Wayne and fight crime using gadgets and sidekicks.
Same with Spiderman but with his powers (apartment or wealth not really mattering, that’s just details)
Ps: dragon ball is a pretty huge exception and even with it things are more permanent than with western stuff
Yes Jujutsu Kaisen is altogether going to be shorter than many major arcs in western comics but isn’t that the point?
Most manga has a true beginning, middle, and end.
More comparable to the Lord of the Rings than to Batman.
Because something like JJK or even One Piece was never meant to go on forever with different writers.
Time skips are not comparable to soft reboots because at the end of the day it’s still one story and will end on purpose in time (on purpose meaning not because the company making it went out of business but because the author chose to end the story)
That will never happen to Batman. Sure lots of writers have created what if scenarios for how Batman could end. Some are even somewhat canon.
But they’re all basically what if stories because the status quo will never truly change unless the story is forced into an ending (as in the company making it DOES go out of business)
They’ll never actually have Bruce retire for good and have Dick or Damian take over.
Batman Beyond will never ever ever actually get transitioned into in a way where the “modern” stories of Bruce as Batman slowly become the present modern/present day stories of Terry.
That just won’t happen. But in a manga it could. In a manga it HAS!!!
Boruto is the sequel to Naruto because it’s about Naruto’s son Baruto.
But it’s not like they have new Naruto stories going alongside these new “future” Baruto stories.
No!!! Naruto actually ended and Baruto carried the torch and completely changed the status quo.
With old Naruto being a background character and having obtained his goal of being the ninja leader (okage or however you spell it)
Could you imagine that happening in DC? Even with them experimenting with “future stories” like future state or Batman beyond, do you think they’d ever ever actually do a finale chapter for Bruce Wayne as the main character and NOT have it be undone a period of time later?
Hell no. You know it and I know it.
But JJK-Jujutsu Kaisen despite its huge popularity, My Hero Academia despite its huge popularity, are both ending.
So will One Piece.
Oh and telling similar stories ie isekai is not the same thing as telling THE same story.
Call me when all of those isekai are the exact same person with the Name, Location, Abilities, and Enemies (Bruce Wayne, Gotham, gadget ninja, Joker, ect)
I mean if each of the isekai were literally Deku/Itadori going up against OFA/Sukuna (not a guy LIKE deku or itadori…..but literally deku…literally itadori)
We can’t even hardly wrap our brains around that except with dragon ball.
Because anime just doesn’t do it.
Even the gundam stuff changes the pilots from what I understand
Ignore the haters man. I just followed you not too long ago and enjoy watching all of your videos of the comic books while I'm in between jobs.
"I wish I could say tweeter"
Speech impediments are hard on all of us, Benny. Keep on fighting, soldier!
I love the Red Hood argument, which has already been undone again XD
pity.
It’s a shame he said he was gonna throw more manga under the bus instead of throwing them under Truck-kun with all the Isekai he brought up.
In some cases it is status quos problem. In others it's the exact opposite, where they are making changes that are not popular with the people who actually buy and read the comics.
The difference with manga is there's still more variety. If you're tired of shonen, you can read a sports manga or a shoujo (female) or senin (adult) or even a manga about cooking or cosplay making even. Western comics don't have that variety. Majority of the western comics is just superhero stuff. There's some horror comics and scifi ones but not enough variety. Which is why I prefer Manga any day over comics. I enjoy the comicstorian visual style videos even though I no longer read western comics. I stopped when Invincible ended. I enjoy the films, TV shows and animations but modern comics overall just isn't my thing. I think western comics were better in the 80s and 90s personally
I had to double check if this video came out ten minutes ago or ten months ago, cuz I’ve herd this before
Benny great vid as always
The kids who are referenced were born into a comic book landscape where the death of a major character truly is inconsequential. I see where they missed the gravity of these events because they have no point of reference
Also, another thing I tell people all the time is that you don't have to read superhero comics. There are non superhero comics that you can read like walking dead sex criminals Sin City Ronin Etc if you know where to look you can find it trust me
the difference is that while manga does have the issues comics struggles with, comics are unable to reach the heights that manga can, due to the fact that comics can't have definitive ends and characters are constantly shuffling writers.
and both of those things dillute the meaning of everything over time. narrative diminishing returns if you will.
you just can't have an end of superman like you can have an end of attack on titan. because in a year someone will pick up superman again and everybody knows it.
also timeskips are not soft reboots. that's ludicrous.
they are completely different narrative devices used for different purposes.
Great job for staying on track Benny 😂
Late, but wanted to say on your Gundam example, there was one continuity (known as Universal Century) until the creator had a breakdown and tried to tank the franchise with Victory Gundam. They then placed most other Gundam in AUs. Think of it like GT to the original Dragon Ball manga.
On SAO, it doesn't really does the same thing with one season not even being a VR game and another was him being basically hired the government to catch a serial killer. But I do see your point.
I don't think you're helping your point. Manga is harder to get into anyways because casuals/beginners don't know where to start.
Love these videos
I read the shounen jump app weekly and his kinda right about how they cancel a lot series except they aren't usually isekai's
Isekais have died out lately, but a lot of people know them with all the SOA clones. So was a better example.
Isekais aren't very good with a few outliers ie. Re Zero.
@@comicstorian what is that?
Good job on keeping on point clpap👏
Yes, comics go back to status quo. The perfect example is the New 52 and everything after. Lex Luthor was establishing as a superheroe, Cyborg was promoted to the JL, Flash villains got an update. Superman dated WW because that was awesome. And then. Everything went back because of reasons. The problem is not the reason of the “status quo”, the problem is a new status quo works in a way to deny everything that happened before. Case in point, the relationship with Superman and WW, lex and captain cold being heroes in Justice League. There is really no character development. A bad guy will always be a bad guy and a good guy will always be a good guy (even though Batman has demonstrated time and time again to be an dangerous schizo)
at this point Dragon Ball has turned into an eastern comic book due to it being such a cash cow, characters arent allowed to change, older characters constantly get reverted to their previous forms (Dragon Ball Daima) and there is no definitive conclusion in sight. The story has been brought back twice after its original ending, once with GT and once again with Super. But thats also such a rare thing in the manga industry since typically in manga you expect a story to go through the motions and you see the endings in sight eventually. Comics are gonna go on for decades and our grandkids will watch stuff with Batman, Spiderman and Superman and they will have new stories but never stray too far from their original version while majority of manga characters will either have physical changes or tonal changes that will stick until the end of their run.
that needs to change
5:36 objection! “Welcome home Frank” has no flaws, it is a perfect storyline
Great channel 😊
as someone from the UK 🇬🇧 I thought you was on about a 70s band lol
I feel that you have a point, but I also feel that the general consensus on comics returning to the status quo is also valid. For example, the X-Men comics are doing some interesting things lately. Before that, it felt like things always returned to some semblance of the status quo - even when there were two different groups of X-Men on entirely different sides of the country. Scott’s always banging a telepath, Logan is always doing his own thing while contending with some errant fragment of his past, Storm is always on some queen shit that goes sideways, and Professor X is always up to something dubious at best.
The perception that things in comics always return to the status quo was probably a byproduct of all the different spin-off books and crossovers in the 90s.
i feel while there is some valid points going against the status quo of characterization and storytelling, it doesn't mean it's 100% of the time changing things is inherently better. "change" / "status quo" is a double edge sword. for example, jason aaron "changed" she-hulk and everyone hated it. now with rainbow rowell writing the character people are happy that she went back to the status quo. we can go to the aged up jon kent / alfred's deaths. on a more personal angle for me i'm fine with those changes, but there are fans that hated it and want the status quo to return. both change or status quo aren't inherently good or bad. it's about how it's used in a story. does the change enhance the potential of a great story or does it "ruin" what was a great status quo?
also not everyone is going to like changes in general. what does change do to characters? changes to characters means moving the character forward to a new direction: from where they were before. there are some fans will not like the change because sometimes, in their mindset of the character's story / status quo, it goes against the character. for example look at the fans of damian vs the fans of tim drake. giving bruce a biological son was, in my opinion a great change, but some fans of batman and a lot more fans of tim drake hated it. they thought giving bruce a biological son goes against the point of the robins.
case in point for the x men: the krakoa era of x men was hated by some x men fans, because the change didn't enhance the characters. but more so, ruined what was. for example changing moira from a heroic personality, to a dumb robot villain isn't enhancing the character: but more so destroying her character.
This is his best one yet 😂
Glad to know it was my tweet that caused this video
The sentence "Lazarus Pits have been REVIVED" is enough to destroy the entire argument.😂
How? Lol. How does that prove anything. 🤣🤣
@@Zackerath the argument of the video is that the status quo isn't as absolute as people think and that some changes stick...and then he mentions that one of the previous big changes (the pits) are back...I don't know how much clearer I can be.
@@adjardolobo5993 Riiiiight. So there's a particular flaw to this entire argument, and I think to best explain that flaw, I ought to ask you a series of questions.
The first being, when Richard Grayson became Robin for the very first time in 1940, when did DC delete him and return to the status quo where he never existed?
@@adjardolobo5993
I shall assume from your endured silence that you understand the fault of your statement and so further discussion becomes unnecessary.
@@Zackerath actually, I just had a life and forgot everything about this silly argument...but since you were kind enough to remind Me, I noticed you have failed to provide any arguments to the discussion. I have no interest in continuing this if you are expecting a lecture instead of a conversation. I have made My point. If you have a counter argument, please let Me know. Have a good day, buddy.
Having done a lot of reading in recent years (especially of stuff from the last couple decades), I think the bigger problem for me is just when things go in a boring direction for a boring reason. Maybe it's "a return to status quo" that seems more rushed (likely motivated by editorial) or it's not really exploring the interesting setup they had (KRAKOA). I do dislike repetitive stories (it's why I hate "Fall of X", it just feels like the storyline before Powers/House of X, when it was also "all of the world against the mutants and now most are dead with some strange bedfellows"). The whole "Doc Ock going back to being Ock after all of the Superior Spidey stuff" did feel like a push to return him to "status quo", same with Doom's going full villain after Infamous Iron Man (both annoyed me, I'd actually quite enjoyed both stories), while Loki's felt like some people want the version from before Young Loki and the subsequent stories/character development while other authors just don't understand who Loki became in Agent of Asgard.
Thank you so much for the acknowledgement of AXE. Having been a reader of Kieron Gillen's fantastic Eternals run that leads into the event, it was a great capstone to that story but its impact on X-Men Red in particular was amazing (makes me a little sad Magneto's already returning, but I'll have to check out the stories bringing him back and after, as I've quite enjoyed where the character's gone in the last couple decades). I also enjoyed some of the characters dealing with the Judgement Day, watching them face and deal with the judgement.
I think “status quo” revolves around a lot of incomplete arcs for characters.
Pretty sure Superman has died multiple times before the 90s.
As have Kitty Pryde, Jean Grey, Wolverine, and others (like Benjamin Reilly.)
Nah you cooked here
And yk here's the thing, change will always come it's not always gonna result in the same hero, take the Batman who laughs comics #1-7 for example (my favorite, and actually I bought it thanks to this channel so thank you) back to the main point tho we have earth prime batman who becomes the one who laughs in an attempt to stop him, when I was reading the comics in my hand for the first time it wasn't "oh Batmans the hero he's gonna win" and yk what, he DIDN'T the one who laughs eventually frees himself and ultimately results in the destruction and recreation of the multiverse, the hero doesn't always win the battle or the war and that's what i love about the batman who laughs(let's just call it the dark multiple saga) its not a battle of right and wrong, but a battle for survival
You can't win Benny. Lasting changes angers people and trying to live up to whatever writers and editors think the status quo is also angers people
I agree with most of this, but I’ll have to say you guys got it wrong with the Sword Art Online example. Even after the death game potion of the first season, Kirito never stopped wanting to play/be involved with VR games
The person that made the original statement was just regurgitating what Rob (Comics Explained) constantly says. This person probably gets all of their knowledge of comics from TH-camrs and doesn't read comics. This is a person that is most likely new to comics and has no real knowledge of historical comic book events.
Don't cut that hair and don't shave that beard! it's metal! been subscribed forever! I was in high school when you guys first started! (2011 sophomore) the coolest comic book TH-cam channel out there I love it! Don't ever stop! and honestly why haven't you guys been making your own comic book series!? and publishing it on the channel?
You are NOT ready for what comes up this side of the time skip!