People say Space Marine 2 will bring new blood into the hobby. I beg to differ. When they pull up to their local GW or hobby shop and see that the price of a few minis is equal to the game they just bought they're going to turn right around and leave. And that's not considering all the paint and tools you need to get up and running. I know. It happened to me. GW sucks at making first impressions. Always have.
it will ramp up the nonsense GW already does, but now they will have a bigger crowd to sell too. if were lucky the new wave of fans will cause outrage when they see the pricings
I think you hit the nail on the head with popularity. 40k is the cash cow, AoS is what they want to push for heritage and they're trying to crack it so it gets popular and HH is left on stair for scraps of attention and tweaks rather than the balance overhaul the players want.
I think Contekar really exemplified this idea for me. Everyone wanted Atramentar, it was obvious. Instead we got a unit that nobody asked for with crappy rules that seem almost designed to piss people off.
Fun police here, we’re going to need you to make a video about the few things you like about AoS’s world. In order to balance out the salt intake you see, completely procedural. On a serious note though that could be an interesting, if brief video.
What's really funny to me is it seems 40k has ground to a halt as well. There's been a slew of models that scream deadlines and burnout. Codexes are mediocre or downright terrible. Constant releases has ruined creativity. The rules are seeing worthwhile updates and fix attempts, but i think that has more to do with the US division pushing competitive events and being actually present to see "playtest" data. Heresy definitely seems like an inherited passion project that nobody there has as much drive for. They keep chugging along with it, but they simply don't have the resources and people to make up for the lack of passion.
I flatly refuse to believe that HH 2.0 was playtested at all. I don't mean that they ignored the external playtesters' feedback, or that they playtested it themselves but in some weird environment that no other players use - there is just no evidence at all that anybody played the game before releasing it, and plenty of evidence that they can't have done.
The money element is why I want this potential edition upgrade to be available as a free PDF; practically every book needs fixing but those books are expensive. By all means release them in physical form with 'new edition' on the front but they should also be free PDFs for those that spent over a hundred quid on broken books.
Great video. I honestly hope that GW forgets about Heresy and leaves it alone; I'd much rather have to use bit-websites and other websites to make miniatures that they don't make anymore. It sucks that, a couple of months prior to 2.0 (and before that) they slowly started to remove kits that could be used, like the mkiii ten man tactical squad, old contemptor dready, etc. All of this was done for money, and the writing also reflects this, so there's really no point in buying their miniatures. Maybe one day the passion from 1.0 could come back...
Knew where the Helldivers analogy was going. It's so frustrating to me how obvious it is that the people in charge of this game simply don't play it. It would be so simple for them to bring the community in to fix the game so quickly, but they're so stupid they don't see jt
The fact they released Commando with ability to blow up fabricators from aby angle and AH is like "oh no that's not working as intended" and here I am asking "why the f you didnt check that before release?"
Given how toxic the community mods have been I'm not surprised there's such a strong barrier between the players and the studio, on top of the many other issues with the game itself. Same kinds of things are looking to happen in Trench Crusade and I am worried this game is gonna tank before it even finishes.
I have a *particular* gripe with the Mechanicum rules, as they are very clearly written by people who either don't play Mech, or didn't play it in 2.0 before they were released
@@bruvaasmodai5250 like. I bought Mechanicum book and wanted to make a fun, functional "robot" army. After some time I did it. By making CIS army for Star Wars Legion. I think Mechanicum is fundamentaly broken in terms of rules, equipment, interactions etc etc.
FYI: AoS and 30k have similar number of Facebook users (100k to 115k), but Reddit users is 222k to 86k in favor of AoS (40K sits at 902k redditards, Warhammer Fantasy at 98k, and The Old World 8k)
In terms of if they’ve stuffed the 40k rules or not, or rhe HH isn’t putting effort, it’s both. What you’re seeing is what people are calling 10.5th edition, as they did a complete rules overhaul to address many of the core-rules based pain points. People are still judging them, but it’s a definitive improvement. The FAQ before was around 15~ pages, but it had less illustrations as it didn’t need them. Does it fix 10th edition? No, but that’s because the issues i find in 10th are a much wider problem that isn’t really fixable without rebooting the game, *again*.
Possibly one of the interns is related to a major investor, we will give them 30k, those guys will buy anyway and we dont want them touching 40k or AoS
@theoutercircle I was looking to see if you made a video about your Legion Malcador. Great sculpt, if you haven’t made a video about it yet, I’d like to see it. I’m curious about your thoughts on the design. It’s pretty much what I imagine a Legion variant looking. It’s going to look great with Iron Warriors.
Did Gw mess up 40k core rules or putting minimal effort in HH? Both, both is good. GW just doesn't care about rules in general. The fact they don't consider Mantic, warlord, etc competition is starting to bite them in the ass.
Across GW and WotC, we're seeing the complete death of passion in game design. It's "we need money, let's pump a product out and leave the company on a golden parachute"
The ‘bubble lore’ of AoS is just a dogshit foundation, for worldbuilding. The anything goes ethos also leads to a lack of substance that the old world rarely if ever suffered from. AoS is trivial. The old world was substantive.
I think the big core rules faq for 40k with the pictures is because they intoduced a new mechanic and had to show how it worked. I think its called pivot or something like that.
I hear your complaints, so here is a new deep striking Imperial fists Cataphracti terminator squad where each model has a thunderhammer and assault cannon to address these issues. GW probably
The efforts GW put into AoS in order to salvage it from its launch disaster has taken its toll one must say. All the creative sculptors and rules writers basically go to buff AoS up leaving others even 40K in poor maintanance. GW is just pretending everything is fine they really need to pull some resources into other gamings systems aside from AoS. (I'm pretty sure there is only one or less than one moderator in charge of HH rules and that guy may also have to support boxed games like epic or necromunda
as a dyslexic I find myself asking this question so often. I think the AlGorerwhythem must have piped this to me because it hears me sayin it all of the time. so this is awkward...how you doing man?
Well I agree. The first time I saw Wolves rules in book7 I was like "how the hell am I to create a list out of this?" Took me a lot of reading to understand those rules. They were pretty counter intuitive at times.
Often in popular 'longtail'/Live Service computer games i find the developers have more success bringing weak things up than smacking the strong things down. I think this is what Heresy Needs, Stop releasing crap units with page long special rules that do nothing! Invictus Suzerain wouldn't even need a points increase if other Legions had anything close to as good (and cheap).
Normally i agree with 95 percent of what your saying, and I'll probably agree with 95 percent of this one to, but your opinion on helldivers difficulty is omega bad, first of all, only like 1 weapon is worse then it was on release, with every single enemy unit used to be a lot stronger because no armor was able to provide any amount of protection, combined with massive nerfs to damage from some enemy's the reason rocket devistators were so feared is because each rocket was able to oneshot you in heavy explosive reistance armor, the only effect that could save you was 50/50 not dying armor, at launch this game was so much harder it's not even funny, and this goes for both bots and bugs, bugs have recived less nerfs as they were always easier, but they are certainly still easier now then launch, largely just because shriekers are hunters if they didn't have to land
Agreed on the awful world of Age of Wokemar; everyone in my gaming group ditched 40k (after, what, 2 years?) for the new edition of AoS, and I'm sitting here, already bogged down with Heresy and 40k Guard/Traitor Guard, struggling to find anything to get into lorewise for AoS. ("Age of Wokemar" may be a bit much. The thing's, like, at most 20% w0k3)
I get that comment about them. It is a bit painful to see how they force diversity into AoS until its breaking at the seams. Giving them some credit, they're trying to appeal to the young, which is probably a mix between alpha based skibidi edge lords and crying trans femboys, both terminally online. It's a hard line. I like AoS for the models, play style might be cool too. They still have all male factions (Skaven, Orcs, Ogres, massive W for the guys). They also have generally cool models so I'm into it. 40K feels like its getting stale, new releases have been pretty g4y.
@@redmarson261 The Undead are the only decent faction (Nagash as a model, still looks gay fuck though!) though there are nice models throughout almost _all_ the ranges.
People say Space Marine 2 will bring new blood into the hobby. I beg to differ. When they pull up to their local GW or hobby shop and see that the price of a few minis is equal to the game they just bought they're going to turn right around and leave. And that's not considering all the paint and tools you need to get up and running. I know. It happened to me. GW sucks at making first impressions. Always have.
it will ramp up the nonsense GW already does, but now they will have a bigger crowd to sell too. if were lucky the new wave of fans will cause outrage when they see the pricings
I think you hit the nail on the head with popularity.
40k is the cash cow, AoS is what they want to push for heritage and they're trying to crack it so it gets popular and HH is left on stair for scraps of attention and tweaks rather than the balance overhaul the players want.
I think Contekar really exemplified this idea for me. Everyone wanted Atramentar, it was obvious. Instead we got a unit that nobody asked for with crappy rules that seem almost designed to piss people off.
The loss of Allan Blyth was far more damaging to games workshop than anyone could have imagined.
Fun police here, we’re going to need you to make a video about the few things you like about AoS’s world. In order to balance out the salt intake you see, completely procedural.
On a serious note though that could be an interesting, if brief video.
What's really funny to me is it seems 40k has ground to a halt as well. There's been a slew of models that scream deadlines and burnout. Codexes are mediocre or downright terrible. Constant releases has ruined creativity. The rules are seeing worthwhile updates and fix attempts, but i think that has more to do with the US division pushing competitive events and being actually present to see "playtest" data.
Heresy definitely seems like an inherited passion project that nobody there has as much drive for. They keep chugging along with it, but they simply don't have the resources and people to make up for the lack of passion.
I flatly refuse to believe that HH 2.0 was playtested at all. I don't mean that they ignored the external playtesters' feedback, or that they playtested it themselves but in some weird environment that no other players use - there is just no evidence at all that anybody played the game before releasing it, and plenty of evidence that they can't have done.
Pretty sure people have discussed their experiences play testing hh2 and being ignored by gw
@@BittermanAndy GW? Play test? In what world?
The money element is why I want this potential edition upgrade to be available as a free PDF; practically every book needs fixing but those books are expensive. By all means release them in physical form with 'new edition' on the front but they should also be free PDFs for those that spent over a hundred quid on broken books.
Babe, wake up, Outer circle just uploaded….
Same problem as with most products: the people who make it never actually use it.
Great video.
I honestly hope that GW forgets about Heresy and leaves it alone; I'd much rather have to use bit-websites and other websites to make miniatures that they don't make anymore. It sucks that, a couple of months prior to 2.0 (and before that) they slowly started to remove kits that could be used, like the mkiii ten man tactical squad, old contemptor dready, etc. All of this was done for money, and the writing also reflects this, so there's really no point in buying their miniatures.
Maybe one day the passion from 1.0 could come back...
Some people are proud of being long-time customers. Personally I'm proud of not having bought a GW product in several years.
Remember when Bungie would release a Halo game and it would be near perfect and remain so
I miss old Halo ;-;
The solution is obviously more Sons of Horus characters.
@@rryannn1 not just Sons of Horus!
Imperial Fists too.
NGL I'm disappointed this isn't a video ripping the piss out of the new Coteaz model.
Knew where the Helldivers analogy was going.
It's so frustrating to me how obvious it is that the people in charge of this game simply don't play it. It would be so simple for them to bring the community in to fix the game so quickly, but they're so stupid they don't see jt
The fact they released Commando with ability to blow up fabricators from aby angle and AH is like "oh no that's not working as intended" and here I am asking "why the f you didnt check that before release?"
Given how toxic the community mods have been I'm not surprised there's such a strong barrier between the players and the studio, on top of the many other issues with the game itself. Same kinds of things are looking to happen in Trench Crusade and I am worried this game is gonna tank before it even finishes.
@@DigitalGame18 Well its not like Space Marine 2 is on the horizon and looks great so far.
With you know. A campaign you can play AND finish XD
I have a *particular* gripe with the Mechanicum rules, as they are very clearly written by people who either don't play Mech, or didn't play it in 2.0 before they were released
@@bruvaasmodai5250 like. I bought Mechanicum book and wanted to make a fun, functional "robot" army.
After some time I did it. By making CIS army for Star Wars Legion.
I think Mechanicum is fundamentaly broken in terms of rules, equipment, interactions etc etc.
Helldivers 2 needs to get it shit together I couldnt agree more.
Playtesting?! Didn't they guy who made the hours heresy box game admit he only had a weekend to playtest?
The size of the 40K errata and FAQ vs the size of actual core rules section of 40K is a crazy ratio.
FYI: AoS and 30k have similar number of Facebook users (100k to 115k), but Reddit users is 222k to 86k in favor of AoS (40K sits at 902k redditards, Warhammer Fantasy at 98k, and The Old World 8k)
In terms of if they’ve stuffed the 40k rules or not, or rhe HH isn’t putting effort, it’s both.
What you’re seeing is what people are calling 10.5th edition, as they did a complete rules overhaul to address many of the core-rules based pain points. People are still judging them, but it’s a definitive improvement. The FAQ before was around 15~ pages, but it had less illustrations as it didn’t need them.
Does it fix 10th edition? No, but that’s because the issues i find in 10th are a much wider problem that isn’t really fixable without rebooting the game, *again*.
Possibly one of the interns is related to a major investor, we will give them 30k, those guys will buy anyway and we dont want them touching 40k or AoS
My kingdom for them to unfuck Helldivers.
@theoutercircle I was looking to see if you made a video about your Legion Malcador. Great sculpt, if you haven’t made a video about it yet, I’d like to see it. I’m curious about your thoughts on the design. It’s pretty much what I imagine a Legion variant looking. It’s going to look great with Iron Warriors.
Macca is back
Justice for the Atramentar.
Did Gw mess up 40k core rules or putting minimal effort in HH?
Both, both is good.
GW just doesn't care about rules in general. The fact they don't consider Mantic, warlord, etc competition is starting to bite them in the ass.
The dark lord returns.
Helldivers 2 player base is down 97% due to their screw ups
Across GW and WotC, we're seeing the complete death of passion in game design. It's "we need money, let's pump a product out and leave the company on a golden parachute"
so true
The ‘bubble lore’ of AoS is just a dogshit foundation, for worldbuilding. The anything goes ethos also leads to a lack of substance that the old world rarely if ever suffered from. AoS is trivial. The old world was substantive.
I think the big core rules faq for 40k with the pictures is because they intoduced a new mechanic and had to show how it worked. I think its called pivot or something like that.
If only that was the only problem GW has. With the exception of beautiful AoS minis, they are fumbling every other IP they have it seems.
I hear your complaints, so here is a new deep striking Imperial fists Cataphracti terminator squad where each model has a thunderhammer and assault cannon to address these issues. GW probably
The efforts GW put into AoS in order to salvage it from its launch disaster has taken its toll one must say. All the creative sculptors and rules writers basically go to buff AoS up leaving others even 40K in poor maintanance. GW is just pretending everything is fine they really need to pull some resources into other gamings systems aside from AoS. (I'm pretty sure there is only one or less than one moderator in charge of HH rules and that guy may also have to support boxed games like epic or necromunda
Heresy totally lost my interest. I'm back to playing 40k 2nd Edition...
as a dyslexic I find myself asking this question so often. I think the AlGorerwhythem must have piped this to me because it hears me sayin it all of the time. so this is awkward...how you doing man?
Well I agree. The first time I saw Wolves rules in book7 I was like "how the hell am I to create a list out of this?"
Took me a lot of reading to understand those rules. They were pretty counter intuitive at times.
Try dark angels in book 9..
@@henrythe9th377 No thanks XD If Wolves were confusing to a Wolf player I could not even start to imagine how confusing DA rules would be.
Often in popular 'longtail'/Live Service computer games i find the developers have more success bringing weak things up than smacking the strong things down. I think this is what Heresy Needs, Stop releasing crap units with page long special rules that do nothing! Invictus Suzerain wouldn't even need a points increase if other Legions had anything close to as good (and cheap).
Bump
Helldivers was always trash
Normally i agree with 95 percent of what your saying, and I'll probably agree with 95 percent of this one to, but your opinion on helldivers difficulty is omega bad, first of all, only like 1 weapon is worse then it was on release, with every single enemy unit used to be a lot stronger because no armor was able to provide any amount of protection, combined with massive nerfs to damage from some enemy's the reason rocket devistators were so feared is because each rocket was able to oneshot you in heavy explosive reistance armor, the only effect that could save you was 50/50 not dying armor, at launch this game was so much harder it's not even funny, and this goes for both bots and bugs, bugs have recived less nerfs as they were always easier, but they are certainly still easier now then launch, largely just because shriekers are hunters if they didn't have to land
Nothing worse than a narcissistic rules team... yikes. Not good for player-designer relations.
Agreed on the awful world of Age of Wokemar; everyone in my gaming group ditched 40k (after, what, 2 years?) for the new edition of AoS, and I'm sitting here, already bogged down with Heresy and 40k Guard/Traitor Guard, struggling to find anything to get into lorewise for AoS.
("Age of Wokemar" may be a bit much. The thing's, like, at most 20% w0k3)
I get that comment about them. It is a bit painful to see how they force diversity into AoS until its breaking at the seams. Giving them some credit, they're trying to appeal to the young, which is probably a mix between alpha based skibidi edge lords and crying trans femboys, both terminally online. It's a hard line.
I like AoS for the models, play style might be cool too. They still have all male factions (Skaven, Orcs, Ogres, massive W for the guys). They also have generally cool models so I'm into it. 40K feels like its getting stale, new releases have been pretty g4y.
I kind of enjoy the floaty dwarves...
@@redmarson261 The Undead are the only decent faction (Nagash as a model, still looks gay fuck though!) though there are nice models throughout almost _all_ the ranges.
@@rutgaurxi7314i think the Blades of Khorne are pretty cool too. Its the only AoS faction i have any interest to collect
Helldivers gets better by the day. Git gud.