I know its been said countless times at this point but this man is probably the most criminally underrated guntuber out here. Love the content, i dont shoot nothing but 9mm, 223 and 762x39 but i still come to watch all the tests!
Probably a great round for people who don't handle recoil well but I bet it would be good for everyone else since follow up shots would be very controllable.
The speed and fragmentation of this ammo is why it was carried by air marshalls. This is an ideal self-defense round if you're living in an apartment or a condo. I have this loaded in my Sig 1911 for home self defense.
After seeing many person in the ER with wounds. That round with the energy transfer would make any bad guy stop doing the bad thing to you. That’s what the good guy wants. Stop the bad guy from doing harm. That round would def mess someone up
@@robertjones2146 i agree. 40. Isn't a dead round. Just as 45. Isn't slow and weak. 9mm, 40. And 45. Have put many dicks in the dirt over the years lol 40. Is especially handy in woods situations. If your gun will cycle underwoods 200 grain hardcast you'd have yourself a decent woods gun (Not grizzly territory) in a small footprint ( Glock 27, M&P Shield 40. Etc. )
Insecurity from 9mm fans. Their short and weak muh capacity cope is really hard to deal with. Their caliber is objectively worse performing with the same JHP than .40 every time. The recoil is more handlable than .45
Thanks, Tools. See there?? It's like I've said for some time now; these tests are giving away what we've known for eons and the more people that start to rethink. 40 as a usable round, the less for us the next time the ammo shortage rears its head. ".40 sucks. You hear me? It sucks. It'll wreck your guns, wreck your wrists, wreck your looks when it KB's in your under supported Glock .40 barrel and frags your face and blows your fingers off! .40 sucks. Bad. Bad. Bad. The FIB left it for 9mm. because it sucks so badly and you know you can trust those guys!"
I don't own a 40 but I really enjoyed this video. I said it before and I'll say it again, you are my FAVORITE Guntuber and you make GREAT videos! Keep uo the great work brother!
I personally use these in my edc, and i am not afraid of recoil. I do so because if i have to pull my weapon in a public place i do not need to worry about what is behind what i am shooting at as these will not over penetrate and injure an innocent person in the background. Yes i would still be mindful of what is behind as anyone should. And fyi my edc is a G27 and service is G22 for work.
@@timrobinson6573 you do get 2700 from 10mm from a 16” and 2600 from a 50 grain 9mm 16inch. As far as 9 mm goes it’s the most energy I’ve ever seen and it does zip right through 3a vests in 9 mm for sure even from a handgun at 2200 fps.
Man I like your channel. I bought this liberty ammo probably a couple of years ago. Just happened upon them online and bought a couple of boxes. It's nice to finally see the ammo does what they said it's supposed to do.
To me it looked like they performed kind of similar to how a JHP .223 or 5.56 of similar weight would. Big initial wound cavity with fragmentation and the base/core traveled on with a tendency to yaw, tumble and/or curve out.
Thank you for the test, partner! I am 100 with you on preferring the heavier standard construction HPs. 155-165 Gold Dot or HST is awfully hard to beat in the 40...enough velocity to expand reliably even with cloth or other barriers, and enough sectional density to penetrate deeply. I will add though, I wouldn't feel unprotected if these Liberty CDs were the only thing available.
This ammo will save 2/3 the weight of a 180g loaded magazine too. Personally I changed ALL of my carry ammo to this. .380- 9mm-40- 45acp. For training I'm more interested in speed of draw and getting the first round on target, so I use my hand loads for that.
Weight is something to consider as well...great point! 10rds of 60gr vs 10rds of 180gr for example. 600gr vs. 1800gr. Definitely gonna feel that difference.
Thanks!!! I appreciate your commentary on recoil, muzzle blast, etc. If a polymer frame carry gun delivers 450 foot pounds of energy, you can probably feel it. I like the copper base delivering a fatal wound itself with a penetration of say 10 " plus. 12" here.
I am on the fence with these, but it is hard to deny that damage in the gel however shallow. I too prefer a hunk of lead that stays intact and opens up properly. Have a good one brother see you on the next one.
Those are pretty impressive! I am weird on the light weights too, but not to shabby at all! The cloth didnt seem to effect them any on what they do. Would be interested in how they group as you add distance and if the come apart as fast with no cloth/light clothing. They could add some lead shot bb's in that hollow cavity for extra effect lol and weight! Like no muzzle flip compared to standard 40SW! Thanks for the tests! 💥💥
I agree with you. Too light for me + I don't know that those little pieces that come off the base are going to do well against bone such as sternum and the base travel path is completely unpredictable, The velocity is very impressive and it may provide a truly nasty wound but this round isn't for me
It sad most of the people who comment doesn’t understand velocity that = penetration. 2000 ft is fast. Anything standing in the way is gone. Guess it take logical thinking to figure that out. Something travel 2000 ft towards your body and hit your bone is toast. It the reason this man did gel test and this test out did regular lead with 165 and 180. Ijs Btw it a video on this round heading pork and beef test shot. This bullet destroys fresh and bones.
I'd like to see the 357 Sig Liberty Civil Defense put through your paces. It looks very promising. Maybe compare that to the 10mm version even though you've already done 10mm.
I found this on a web page discussing effective game killing, "Frangible bullets tend to produce coma at much lower velocities than traditional hunting bullets (see bullet construction). With frangible bullets at low velocities, instant coma may be due to hydraulic shock causing blood pressure spikes in the brain as suggested by Hornady ballisticians. In other instances, coma can follow very shortly after impact due to multiple pain centers being disrupted to such an extent that the animal must go into coma. That said, frangible bullets may also send out particles which strike the CNS directly.". So with these liberty rounds there is this, there is the high velocity shock factor, and the 40cal core does get the 12" FBI minimum. Finally, the over penetration risk is minimal. What's not to like?
This ammo has been known to defeat Level IIIa soft body armor. Military Channel had this ammo and he was surprised. I would love to shoot this ammo through m6bold Ruger PC-40 16 inch barrel. Great video.
Nice!! I commented regarding using Herters/ Winchester white box hollow points for my .40 cal a while back. Still patiently waiting on that if you’re ever free for it. This video highlights the first HP rounds I bought for my .40 so thank you for a video I didn’t know I needed!! Love your work sir.
The benefit of these rounds are for those people who are kinda recoil sensitive since they are very mild in firearms. i had a 357 magnum revolver that i Hated to shoot cuz the recoil would hurt my hands, but these in 357 were like shooting a 38 light load and was my primary carry round when i still had that revolver. great testing as always tools. i would not hesitate to have these as my primary carry rounds. very nasty looking in the gel, it would make the bad guy rethink their life choices if they still alive after taking that hit lol.
As good as they performed, I’m one of those guys that can’t get past the super light weight. I wonder how it would do after hitting a rib or sternum? But I sure wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of one. You sir are the best on TH-cam for a reason. Awesome test and info for people to make up their minds. 👍🇺🇸
It does better than JHP from what I've seen. I can point to a video that demonstrates it if someone wants. Both turn bone to granules, but the Liberty gets through and out to the backstop. The JHP stops at the bone. And that was a scapula. A sternum or rib is like paper compared to that. So the JHP might do ok, but the denser bone basically proves the point.
Thats why I load lite bullets for my deer rifles. It’s like a add I seen for some kind of Hornady ammo it said speed kills and it does exactly that to with the shockwave
I carry a competing frangible (sinterfife) mixed into my magazines. Also have traditional HP and ball. I also train with mixed mags as well... That way I don't get zoned out on what's going on. Variety of felt recoil and volume keeps attention and focus on trigger control, and hopefully not getting sloppy with the trigger.
John, I think the Sinterfire suffers from the same problem as the the Liberty, a serious lack of penetration with anything substantial. I do like the explosiveness (is that a word?) Of the rounds but I want a lot more penetration to get to the deeper vitals. Basically, I don't see much difference between the two rounds but whatever let's you sleep at night! Cheers, jc
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 as pointed out in the video, the initial damage created causes a rifle like permanent wound channel, followed by deeper penetration by the base of the round... 2 other considerations. First, frangibles also penetrate body armor up to and including level IIIA. SECOND, I also follow up with a mix of HP, ball and more frangibles... So in 15- 19 rounds, the resulting damage would be catastrophic, IF I ever had to do it.
Would be interesting to put some pork ribs in front of the gel, kind of like Paul Harrel does. Wonder how much of the explosion would be inside someone vs being stopped by the rib cage ??
I only shoot 380 556 22lr 9mm and 7.62×39 and 7.62 tokarev. Now that may seem like alot but it really isnt. But i still love seeing all these videos on 10mm 40 cal 357 and 38 32 acp 25 acp 357 sig etc. Its great to see performance to make educated decisions.
The penetration of the disc isn't as good as a lot of defense ammo, but don't forget you have to factor in the damage of each of the other pieces, too, to get the total picture. If you're the doc trying to deal with all that mess, this stuff might be more potent than it would appear. Correct shot placement would be messing up several different vital organs. Plus, the blast alone is pretty demoralizing.
If the person being shot survives long enough to make it to a doctor then the round failed in it's job. A quality JHP will penetrate deeply enough to hit vital organs, arteries, blood vessels and cause immediate bleed out.
Especially in the stomach area each pedal hits liver,lung,intestines, kidney then the disc travels to the spine. Most veterans that talk to me experienced more body damage from shrapnel than a bullet wound
@timrobinson6573 why are rifles so effective in taking down bad guys? Police are shooting 55grain .223 and usually stop bad guys in 1-2 shots. Velocity/energy transfer is more important than penetration. And as stated in the video, these rounds are close to rifle speed. The heart is only about 2" deep. These rounds would literally shred the heart with where the petals come off. 12" of penetration puts the round near the spine of most people. How is that inadequate penetration??
Im like you, I mean we looking at the performance, but it's hard to buck that instinct that we've had pounded in our head for years about weight retention
I read about someone who knew a guy that used Civil Defense 9mm in a self defense shooting. He shot the guy once center mass in the chest at short range and he passed on scene.
I think there's something to be said for the ability of fragmenting rounds to achieve incapacitation local to where they hit. Someone might be able to tough out a single thru-and-thru in a muscle group or extremity, but there's no way they're toughing out those dozen pieces of fragmenting copper. If that hits the abdominals, those abdominals are immobilized. If it hits a thigh, that thigh isn't bearing weight. The Miami Dade shootout and the early strike by special agent Benjamin Grogan to Matix's arm comes to mind, what if the 9mm had fragmented instead of just passing through? Now I don't imagine it'll perform through autoglass and other barriers like a 180gr does. Still, something to think about, not sure you need to shoot through autoglass for home defense.
Try shooting a real living critter with it. I have shot several hogs and coyotes with 9 & 10mm. It is devastating. Think about what makes a 556 or any smaller caliber high velocity rifle so devastating. Velocity. Velocity causes extreme hydrostatic shock (look it up) from sheer velocity displacement. That’s what turns vitals into literal red mush/jello. I used to say the same thing…..too light not enough ass behind it. Stop shooting steel, paper, and gel. Get out into the wild and try ammo on living varmints.
I first tried Liberty Civil Defense after multiple surgeries left me with a very weak wrist. After trying it I’m a believer and carry nothing else. The recoil is noticeably less and I can shoot my 9mm with confidence and I carry it in my snub 357. That is a polymer that was very uncomfortable to shoot but it was even better than the 9mm.
As far as the concerns on what this stuff will do when encountering bones I shot a pork shoulder with the .45 ACP version of this. There was a fist size hole on the backside and the large shoulder bone was pulverized. I don't think that any human torso would defeat it. They also zip right though most body armor. Thanks for testing this.
these would make some nasty wounds for sure. idk how effective they would be at putting someone down quickly, as they dont seem super dependable at punching deep and carrying the energy through the target. getting those critical hits on vital organs would be inconsistent maybe, the disc that carries on appears to be a somewhat insignificant part of the damage delivered. They dump a bunch of energy, surely very nasty, and undoubtedly capable of creating lethal damage. I’m just not convinced that the penetrating disc is carrying enough energy to dependably cause the fight stopping damage to vital components. Interestingly I believe these would inflict very devastating wounds in places where other handgun bullets don’t do as much, such as in the legs, arms and especially in the stomach or groin area. Hits outside of the center mass, where you ideally target, and where armor is worn. Interesting potential there perhaps. Very cool ammo regardless.
That’s some interesting holster wear on that 27 I feel the same way you do about this particular round and also the Underwood extreme defenders even though they work in ballistic gelatin, I’m not completely sold. A lot of the time ballistic gelatin will deceive you if the ammo has sharp edges that creates a rip/tear action during the temporary wound stretch
This is the exact loading I was shooting at my local range. The range officer came over to make sure I wasn't shooting a rifle caliber on the pistol range. It's LOUD.
If you happen to come across the Liberty Civil Defense in .38 Special, I'd love to see a test of it. They claim that it's standard pressure and that it still performs well. I'd like to know if that's true.
I sometimes get a hang up on the recoil of the ammunition. For some reason if I have two or three good hollow points that I pretty much know will perform I will tend to load up and carry the one that has the most kick for whatever reason.
Great test! Good results. Interesting round for sure. I tend to agree with you. You can't argue with consistent, reliable performance as designed. But I just don't think I would choose to use them. I wouldn't criticize anyone who does. Thank you again for excellent content.
I'm with you on the light weight. I'd like it if that were just a dozen grains or so heavier. I know it needs to be light weight to get that speed and then fragment that way, but I feel like a slightly heavier round would do a little more convincing damage.
I said it a few times that they could thicken the walls and slightly lengthen the bullet to get it to about 120gr but still have a fragmenting round, If the round was double the weight and had a few weak points and the charge was maxed out the depth of the fragments would be a lot deeper and the round would be seen as a serious option rather than the gimmick reputation that it currently has
I took a deer one evening with my 25-06 with a 100gr Nosler ballistic tip and I seen the shock wave started in it’s left shoulder and went back it’s whole body like a tidal wave I seen it through the scope
Thanks Tools, definitely nasty. I wonder about the core being so light if it would do enough damage if it hit bone. I’m not saying it wouldn’t, just wondering. Appreciate the test 👍👍
They're available for .357 Sig too. I would like to purchase these for carry because they're so lightweight. 2000 fps is the magic velocity threshold for temporary stretch cavity organ disruption. Nasty stuff
I'm impressed. The base actually penetrates deep enough to be lethal. I bought some of the 10mm out of curiosity, but I'm thinking I might actually carry that.
Please test 65gr .357sig from a 6" barrel its the extreme defender round i believe it should be around the 2400fps mark which is pretty decent rifle velocities from a handgun
If you run into any 357, give it a try, bought a box and it’s a screamer, even out of a ported 3” SP 101, haven’t ever used jelly, your my go too for all this, thanks again. PS, there was zero recoil out of the Ruger, obviously ported, but I tried in my Colt single six with six inch and it was virtually recoilless, I was really interested in the short carry though, for obvious reasons.
The only thing I don't like about this ammo is they make your tool just dirty as heck! Other than that, I love em, and they also make your edc lighter! Great video as always, appreciate you Sir!
The Underwood 357 Sig 68gr XD round smokes this Liberty ammo. The UA 357 XD round is even faster and gets deeper more effective barrier blind penetration. But if you like this fast Liberty ammo you can get it in 357 Sig where it gets a velocity of 2300+ fps out of a 4.5 inch barrel.
Good for close quarters like dense crowded environments, no worries about defense with over penetration, My Ruger LCP 380 and crowded socially non permissive areas where I want deep cover if needed, everyone at some point depending on environment will need a small gun, anyone new to guns should have like a micro, and compact and a duty size gun
Good vid, Brian! Like you, I wonder if the base alone carries enough punch to get deep into vitals and from what I've seen, it does not! If all your shots were straight on chest shots, it would probably do a good job, if nothing else just by the sudden energy dump. Still, if anything were to get in the way of the shot, such as an arm, hand or a bit of a car door, I suspect you would end up with a massive flesh wound and a small puncture wound. I suppose if you had to make all head shots in the zombie apocalypse, these would definitely do the job, but since that's not something I plan for, I think I'll stick with my Lehigh Xtreme Defender bullets! Cheers, jc
Liberty also has their ammo in "Ultra-Light", at least in 9mm +P. The bullet is the same, but it has an odd 2-piece case, with an aluminum case head and a steel section that holds the projectile and powder. The box claims a 50 gr. bullet listed at 2040 fps. I keep a mag loaded with these rounds for when I want an extra mag but weight is a priority. I just did a test on my food scale in my kitchen, and with my 365 12 round mag filled with these Liberty Ultra Lights, the scale showed 5 ounces even. With another 12 round mag full of 115 V Crowns, the weight is 7.5 ounces. That's a 50% increase in weight over the Liberty Ultra Light. 124's or 149's would be an even bigger weight increase, naturally. So when I'm pocket carrying in some shorts and don't want my clothes to get tangled around my knees, I can carry a full 12 extra rounds with a (slightly) lighter weight than a 365 10 round flush mag with only 7 rounds in it, if my little scale is to be believed! I'm like you, and don't 100% trust the Liberty for primary EDC, but I like it enough to have a mag loaded with it as a super lightweight backup. If I ever NEED that extra 12, then that means that there have already been 11 rounds of better-in-my -opinion rounds that were already used, so to me, that weight savings is a true benefit for a backup mag, and if I ever need to cap a 4 legged critter, I would actually prefer the Liberty because those things do some MAJOR shallow damage!
They perform the same through a car door. Through the door and the fragmentation and base penetration in 10% gel is exactly the same as with no door. I dont really understand how, but, somehow it does so, consistently. Personally, I like it. But u know that since i tell u everytime u mention it 😂
All I carry is Civil Defense in my 9mm handgun (Tisas PX9) & I've actually successfully self defended myself with this ammo & all I can say is the threat won't be celebrating any more birthdays 🤷🏾♂️
Thanks for posting brother, i like this stuff in 9 mm and 45 acp but i will stick to my Hornady critical duty 135 gr. +p in my edc firearm. Great shooting and stay armed.
I know its been said countless times at this point but this man is probably the most criminally underrated guntuber out here. Love the content, i dont shoot nothing but 9mm, 223 and 762x39 but i still come to watch all the tests!
Appreciate that!😎👊
Channel should grow, great personality and thumbs up galore.
@@ToolsandTargets far and away one of the better channels
@@DasGoodSoup um , no , the best.
😳
Probably a great round for people who don't handle recoil well but I bet it would be good for everyone else since follow up shots would be very controllable.
True. A mag full of these would leave quite a mark.😆
2 of my favorite guntubers commenting! So cool
@@FL-Kaiman As long as I'm first and he's second!😜
The speed and fragmentation of this ammo is why it was carried by air marshalls. This is an ideal self-defense round if you're living in an apartment or a condo. I have this loaded in my Sig 1911 for home self defense.
Check your state law's on fragmenting ammo I've bought lots of it and still have it in Florida you can't use it for self-defense
After seeing many person in the ER with wounds. That round with the energy transfer would make any bad guy stop doing the bad thing to you. That’s what the good guy wants. Stop the bad guy from doing harm. That round would def mess someone up
Thank you for keeping the glock 27 in the testing lineup. Im one of the dwindling few that still use it as an everyday carry.
It's a great gun. Just a little chunky for the capacity.😎👍
Love my 27 too man! Wish we could see a 43x or 48 style .40cal..... it would sell! People still low key know the .40 is a great round
@@robertjones2146 i agree. 40. Isn't a dead round. Just as 45. Isn't slow and weak. 9mm, 40. And 45. Have put many dicks in the dirt over the years lol 40. Is especially handy in woods situations. If your gun will cycle underwoods 200 grain hardcast you'd have yourself a decent woods gun (Not grizzly territory) in a small footprint ( Glock 27, M&P Shield 40. Etc. )
40sw. is very efficient in short barrels.
Glock 23 all day but love the 27s
.40 is a pretty good caliber.
I've never understood why it gets so much hate.
Always in stock too.
It's a damn good caliber!
Insecurity from 9mm fans. Their short and weak muh capacity cope is really hard to deal with. Their caliber is objectively worse performing with the same JHP than .40 every time. The recoil is more handlable than .45
@@cookie5535
9mm is better
@@504Trey Not in any way shape or statistic is 9mm > .40. Except magazine capacity. Lol
Thank you for another great quality video. These are amazing ballistics for such short barrels. You’ve made a 40 fan of me for sure!
😎👊
Thanks, Tools. See there?? It's like I've said for some time now; these tests are giving away what we've known for eons and the more people that start to rethink. 40 as a usable round, the less for us the next time the ammo shortage rears its head.
".40 sucks. You hear me? It sucks. It'll wreck your guns, wreck your wrists, wreck your looks when it KB's in your under supported Glock .40 barrel and frags your face and blows your fingers off! .40 sucks. Bad. Bad. Bad. The FIB left it for 9mm. because it sucks so badly and you know you can trust those guys!"
.40 S&W = best do all pistol caliber! Love it!
😎👊
Agreed I got one on my hip loaded with this ammunition
Looks like a shotgun blast! Thanks for remembering us 40 guys tools. Wicked looking stuff for sure
😎👊
I don't own a 40 but I really enjoyed this video. I said it before and I'll say it again, you are my FAVORITE Guntuber and you make GREAT videos! Keep uo the great work brother!
Thank you sir. Appreciate that again!😎👊
I personally use these in my edc, and i am not afraid of recoil. I do so because if i have to pull my weapon in a public place i do not need to worry about what is behind what i am shooting at as these will not over penetrate and injure an innocent person in the background. Yes i would still be mindful of what is behind as anyone should. And fyi my edc is a G27 and service is G22 for work.
Thanks I carry a 23 full time getting ready to start carrying my 29 10mm the civil defense impressed me Thanks again
😎👊
Whew that wound cavity is nasty
Mhmm
Try it from a carbine...gets around 2600 to 2700 fps
😎👊
Went to look for the 10mm version of this ammo and glad to see it was already tested last year. 2400 fps and this ammo is just pure nuts.
Imagine if the 10mm was shot out of a 16 inch carbine. You might get 2700 fps.
Faster than a lot of AK rounds.😆
@@timrobinson6573 you do get 2700 from 10mm from a 16” and 2600 from a 50 grain 9mm 16inch. As far as 9 mm goes it’s the most energy I’ve ever seen and it does zip right through 3a vests in 9 mm for sure even from a handgun at 2200 fps.
practically at the speed of a 7.62x39 round. Insane!
@@timrobinson6573 More like 2900 fps.
The heavier 70 gr Overwatch is what is near 2700 fps from 16" barell.
Man I like your channel. I bought this liberty ammo probably a couple of years ago. Just happened upon them online and bought a couple of boxes. It's nice to finally see the ammo does what they said it's supposed to do.
Appreciate that.😎👊
To me it looked like they performed kind of similar to how a JHP .223 or 5.56 of similar weight would. Big initial wound cavity with fragmentation and the base/core traveled on with a tendency to yaw, tumble and/or curve out.
Thank you for the test, partner! I am 100 with you on preferring the heavier standard construction HPs. 155-165 Gold Dot or HST is awfully hard to beat in the 40...enough velocity to expand reliably even with cloth or other barriers, and enough sectional density to penetrate deeply. I will add though, I wouldn't feel unprotected if these Liberty CDs were the only thing available.
Same here. I definitely wouldn't throw em away.
They performed awesome and I will have to find me some of them this week. Thank you brother tools for another great freedom seed testing video.
Thank you sir.😎👊
This ammo will save 2/3 the weight of a 180g loaded magazine too. Personally I changed ALL of my carry ammo to this. .380- 9mm-40- 45acp. For training I'm more interested in speed of draw and getting the first round on target, so I use my hand loads for that.
Weight is something to consider as well...great point! 10rds of 60gr vs 10rds of 180gr for example. 600gr vs. 1800gr. Definitely gonna feel that difference.
😎👍
Thanks!!! I appreciate your commentary on recoil, muzzle blast, etc. If a polymer frame carry gun delivers 450 foot pounds of energy, you can probably feel it. I like the copper base delivering a fatal wound itself with a penetration of say 10 " plus. 12" here.
Definitely some light stuff.😎👍
I am on the fence with these, but it is hard to deny that damage in the gel however shallow. I too prefer a hunk of lead that stays intact and opens up properly. Have a good one brother see you on the next one.
Appreciate ya!😎👊
I can feel those shock waves all the way here in Phila ....
😲😲😲
This ammo is pretty underrated. Reliable and extremely light
Those are pretty impressive! I am weird on the light weights too, but not to shabby at all! The cloth didnt seem to effect them any on what they do. Would be interested in how they group as you add distance and if the come apart as fast with no cloth/light clothing. They could add some lead shot bb's in that hollow cavity for extra effect lol and weight! Like no muzzle flip compared to standard 40SW! Thanks for the tests! 💥💥
One thing they definitely have is speed.
Yeah that would be cool. Magsafes are the best self defense ammo ever made. I saw Testing2741 make clones with tungsten drill bits.
I agree with you. Too light for me + I don't know that those little pieces that come off the base are going to do well against bone such as sternum and the base travel path is completely unpredictable, The velocity is very impressive and it may provide a truly nasty wound but this round isn't for me
😎👊
It sad most of the people who comment doesn’t understand velocity that = penetration. 2000 ft is fast. Anything standing in the way is gone. Guess it take logical thinking to figure that out. Something travel 2000 ft towards your body and hit your bone is toast. It the reason this man did gel test and this test out did regular lead with 165 and 180. Ijs
Btw it a video on this round heading pork and beef test shot. This bullet destroys fresh and bones.
😎👊
I'd like to see the 357 Sig Liberty Civil Defense put through your paces. It looks very promising. Maybe compare that to the 10mm version even though you've already done 10mm.
Pretty good performance. Still not sold on the light for caliber bullets. Glad to see some more 40 cal love. Thanks for the video Tools!
Appreciate ya.😎👍
Good review, impressive speed.
Yessir.😎👍
I found this on a web page discussing effective game killing, "Frangible bullets tend to produce coma at much lower velocities than traditional hunting bullets (see bullet construction). With frangible bullets at low velocities, instant coma may be due to hydraulic shock causing blood pressure spikes in the brain as suggested by Hornady ballisticians. In other instances, coma can follow very shortly after impact due to multiple pain centers being disrupted to such an extent that the animal must go into coma. That said, frangible bullets may also send out particles which strike the CNS directly.". So with these liberty rounds there is this, there is the high velocity shock factor, and the 40cal core does get the 12" FBI minimum. Finally, the over penetration risk is minimal. What's not to like?
This ammo has been known to defeat Level IIIa soft body armor. Military Channel had this ammo and he was surprised. I would love to shoot this ammo through m6bold Ruger PC-40 16 inch barrel. Great video.
Nice!! I commented regarding using Herters/ Winchester white box hollow points for my .40 cal a while back. Still patiently waiting on that if you’re ever free for it.
This video highlights the first HP rounds I bought for my .40 so thank you for a video I didn’t know I needed!! Love your work sir.
Appreciate that. On the lookout.😎👍
Thank you for the video. The caliber . 40 is powerfull.
Yessir.😎👍
The benefit of these rounds are for those people who are kinda recoil sensitive since they are very mild in firearms. i had a 357 magnum revolver that i Hated to shoot cuz the recoil would hurt my hands, but these in 357 were like shooting a 38 light load and was my primary carry round when i still had that revolver.
great testing as always tools. i would not hesitate to have these as my primary carry rounds. very nasty looking in the gel, it would make the bad guy rethink their life choices if they still alive after taking that hit lol.
Love seeing these 40 tests, keep them coming! Forty Forever!
😎👊
As good as they performed, I’m one of those guys that can’t get past the super light weight. I wonder how it would do after hitting a rib or sternum? But I sure wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of one. You sir are the best on TH-cam for a reason. Awesome test and info for people to make up their minds. 👍🇺🇸
Appreciate ya, brother.😎👊
Yea I agree, I’m sticking with 180’s and 165’s
It does better than JHP from what I've seen.
I can point to a video that demonstrates it if someone wants.
Both turn bone to granules, but the Liberty gets through and out to the backstop. The JHP stops at the bone. And that was a scapula. A sternum or rib is like paper compared to that. So the JHP might do ok, but the denser bone basically proves the point.
Thats why I load lite bullets for my deer rifles. It’s like a add I seen for some kind of Hornady ammo it said speed kills and it does exactly that to with the shockwave
💥🦌💥
Civil defense, 9,40&45!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell yeah!!!!!!!
I carry a competing frangible (sinterfife) mixed into my magazines. Also have traditional HP and ball. I also train with mixed mags as well... That way I don't get zoned out on what's going on. Variety of felt recoil and volume keeps attention and focus on trigger control, and hopefully not getting sloppy with the trigger.
😎👍
John, I think the Sinterfire suffers from the same problem as the the Liberty, a serious lack of penetration with anything substantial. I do like the explosiveness (is that a word?) Of the rounds but I want a lot more penetration to get to the deeper vitals. Basically, I don't see much difference between the two rounds but whatever let's you sleep at night!
Cheers,
jc
@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549 as pointed out in the video, the initial damage created causes a rifle like permanent wound channel, followed by deeper penetration by the base of the round... 2 other considerations. First, frangibles also penetrate body armor up to and including level IIIA. SECOND, I also follow up with a mix of HP, ball and more frangibles... So in 15- 19 rounds, the resulting damage would be catastrophic, IF I ever had to do it.
This would be a great warm weather load for edc
I agree I'm questioning the penetration. But I'm not much on over penetration if you know what I mean. If I wasn't worried I would carry 10mm.
Would be interesting to put some pork ribs in front of the gel, kind of like Paul Harrel does. Wonder how much of the explosion would be inside someone vs being stopped by the rib cage ??
🤷♂️
I wonder if hitting bone would be more likely to stop it cause its so light weight or shatter causing more damage due to the velocity. 🤔
I only shoot 380 556 22lr 9mm and 7.62×39 and 7.62 tokarev. Now that may seem like alot but it really isnt. But i still love seeing all these videos on 10mm 40 cal 357 and 38 32 acp 25 acp 357 sig etc. Its great to see performance to make educated decisions.
Appreciate you checkin it out!😎👊
The penetration of the disc isn't as good as a lot of defense ammo, but don't forget you have to factor in the damage of each of the other pieces, too, to get the total picture. If you're the doc trying to deal with all that mess, this stuff might be more potent than it would appear. Correct shot placement would be messing up several different vital organs. Plus, the blast alone is pretty demoralizing.
😎👊
If the person being shot survives long enough to make it to a doctor then the round failed in it's job. A quality JHP will penetrate deeply enough to hit vital organs, arteries, blood vessels and cause immediate bleed out.
@Tim Robinson laser is not better than grenade.
If you shoot vital organs of elephant than yeah, you need tonns if penetration
Especially in the stomach area each pedal hits liver,lung,intestines, kidney then the disc travels to the spine. Most veterans that talk to me experienced more body damage from shrapnel than a bullet wound
@timrobinson6573 why are rifles so effective in taking down bad guys? Police are shooting 55grain .223 and usually stop bad guys in 1-2 shots. Velocity/energy transfer is more important than penetration. And as stated in the video, these rounds are close to rifle speed.
The heart is only about 2" deep. These rounds would literally shred the heart with where the petals come off. 12" of penetration puts the round near the spine of most people. How is that inadequate penetration??
Check out the Civil Defense.
The energy dump is immense.
It's fast as hell.
And light as well.
But frankly, I'm still on the fence.
Im like you, I mean we looking at the performance, but it's hard to buck that instinct that we've had pounded in our head for years about weight retention
That little light disc kills it for me.
The faster the bullet, the louder the round.
.40 come back? That's my favorite. Thank you very much for the videos!
😎👊
I wonder if there's any information on what happened when this stuff was actually used in a self defense situation? Thanks Tools!
🤔
I read about someone who knew a guy that used Civil Defense 9mm in a self defense shooting. He shot the guy once center mass in the chest at short range and he passed on scene.
40 is the correct answer vs human sized questions!! 🎉🎉
💣🍕💣
I like how you do a long and short barrel
Appreciate that. Try to cover as many bases as I can. 😎👍
I think there's something to be said for the ability of fragmenting rounds to achieve incapacitation local to where they hit. Someone might be able to tough out a single thru-and-thru in a muscle group or extremity, but there's no way they're toughing out those dozen pieces of fragmenting copper. If that hits the abdominals, those abdominals are immobilized. If it hits a thigh, that thigh isn't bearing weight. The Miami Dade shootout and the early strike by special agent Benjamin Grogan to Matix's arm comes to mind, what if the 9mm had fragmented instead of just passing through?
Now I don't imagine it'll perform through autoglass and other barriers like a 180gr does. Still, something to think about, not sure you need to shoot through autoglass for home defense.
Thank you!
Great round if you ever need to obliterate a chipmunk.
😂😂😂
🐿💥😂
I was thinking about ground hog, trash panda, etc.
For some reason i didn't like them i shot all of mine in target practice. Carry HSTs and hornady critical defense
Try shooting a real living critter with it. I have shot several hogs and coyotes with 9 & 10mm. It is devastating. Think about what makes a 556 or any smaller caliber high velocity rifle so devastating. Velocity. Velocity causes extreme hydrostatic shock (look it up) from sheer velocity displacement. That’s what turns vitals into literal red mush/jello. I used to say the same thing…..too light not enough ass behind it. Stop shooting steel, paper, and gel. Get out into the wild and try ammo on living varmints.
I first tried Liberty Civil Defense after multiple surgeries left me with a very weak wrist. After trying it I’m a believer and carry nothing else. The recoil is noticeably less and I can shoot my 9mm with confidence and I carry it in my snub 357. That is a polymer that was very uncomfortable to shoot but it was even better than the 9mm.
It is very light recoiling.
Great Ammo test Tools 👍🇺🇸
Thank you sir.😎👊
Good test. Crazy speeds with an explosion. 👍🏻
thank you sir. 😎👊
As far as the concerns on what this stuff will do when encountering bones I shot a pork shoulder with the .45 ACP version of this. There was a fist size hole on the backside and the large shoulder bone was pulverized. I don't think that any human torso would defeat it. They also zip right though most body armor. Thanks for testing this.
😎👊
these would make some nasty wounds for sure. idk how effective they would be at putting someone down quickly, as they dont seem super dependable at punching deep and carrying the energy through the target. getting those critical hits on vital organs would be inconsistent maybe, the disc that carries on appears to be a somewhat insignificant part of the damage delivered. They dump a bunch of energy, surely very nasty, and undoubtedly capable of creating lethal damage. I’m just not convinced that the penetrating disc is carrying enough energy to dependably cause the fight stopping damage to vital components. Interestingly I believe these would inflict very devastating wounds in places where other handgun bullets don’t do as much, such as in the legs, arms and especially in the stomach or groin area. Hits outside of the center mass, where you ideally target, and where armor is worn. Interesting potential there perhaps. Very cool ammo regardless.
Thanks for the gel test. Good ammo and bullet. I find it hard changing too the lighter bullets. Like you said guess I just old school.
Appreciate ya, my friend.😎👊
That’s some interesting holster wear on that 27
I feel the same way you do about this particular round and also the Underwood extreme defenders even though they work in ballistic gelatin, I’m not completely sold. A lot of the time ballistic gelatin will deceive you if the ammo has sharp edges that creates a rip/tear action during the temporary wound stretch
This is the exact loading I was shooting at my local range. The range officer came over to make sure I wasn't shooting a rifle caliber on the pistol range. It's LOUD.
Yeah, these Civil Defense rounds are some of the loudest ammo I test in any caliber.
If you happen to come across the Liberty Civil Defense in .38 Special, I'd love to see a test of it. They claim that it's standard pressure and that it still performs well. I'd like to know if that's true.
😎👊
I carry them in .380 i train with range ammo and the civil defense great ammo!
need to try these in a longer barrel like Sub2000 or HiPoint carbine. that would be a nasty nasty combo if you could suppress it.
I sometimes get a hang up on the recoil of the ammunition. For some reason if I have two or three good hollow points that I pretty much know will perform I will tend to load up and carry the one that has the most kick for whatever reason.
😆😆😆
Not a .40 fan, but like to see this ammo.
Interesting stuff.
Good jelly test Tools Stay Safe Stay 2A Strong 🇺🇸
Thank you sir.😎👊
i love your testing videos definately learned alot and thank you ,TC
Great test! Good results. Interesting round for sure. I tend to agree with you. You can't argue with consistent, reliable performance as designed. But I just don't think I would choose to use them. I wouldn't criticize anyone who does. Thank you again for excellent content.
Thank you sir. No doubt they would make a mess.😎👍
This 40 s&w are nasty awesome! I like this ammo!
Mhmm
I'm with you on the light weight. I'd like it if that were just a dozen grains or so heavier. I know it needs to be light weight to get that speed and then fragment that way, but I feel like a slightly heavier round would do a little more convincing damage.
I said it a few times that they could thicken the walls and slightly lengthen the bullet to get it to about 120gr but still have a fragmenting round,
If the round was double the weight and had a few weak points and the charge was maxed out the depth of the fragments would be a lot deeper and the round would be seen as a serious option rather than the gimmick reputation that it currently has
😎👊
I took a deer one evening with my 25-06 with a 100gr Nosler ballistic tip and I seen the shock wave started in it’s left shoulder and went back it’s whole body like a tidal wave I seen it through the scope
Thanks Tools, definitely nasty. I wonder about the core being so light if it would do enough damage if it hit bone. I’m not saying it wouldn’t, just wondering. Appreciate the test 👍👍
I'm not willing to chance it myself.😎👍
@@ToolsandTargets me either
Thanks bunch yall..
😎👊
would like to see how they work on interior walls..house will they over penetrate 2 layers of wall, and what if it hits the stud
@Tools&Targets
Excellent video as always.
I’d like to get your opinion on the Taurus TH40.
They're available for .357 Sig too. I would like to purchase these for carry because they're so lightweight.
2000 fps is the magic velocity threshold for temporary stretch cavity organ disruption. Nasty stuff
They are very light in a mag.
I'm impressed. The base actually penetrates deep enough to be lethal. I bought some of the 10mm out of curiosity, but I'm thinking I might actually carry that.
The only thing I wonder about is the light weight of that center piece.
@@ToolsandTargets I mean, if it penetrates far enough and makes a hole, I don't think that should matter too much.
Man those are bad ass! I would love to see them in a 10mm. It would really be moving close to 3000fps and the energy dump !!!!!
2400 fps out of 4 inch barrels. Loudest report I've heard from a handgun.
Tested the 10mm in bare gel a while back. 2400 from the G20. Crazy stuff.
@@ToolsandTargets I just watched that video. Man those are some serious rounds.
Please test 65gr .357sig from a 6" barrel its the extreme defender round i believe it should be around the 2400fps mark which is pretty decent rifle velocities from a handgun
If you run into any 357, give it a try, bought a box and it’s a screamer, even out of a ported 3” SP 101, haven’t ever used jelly, your my go too for all this, thanks again. PS, there was zero recoil out of the Ruger, obviously ported, but I tried in my Colt single six with six inch and it was virtually recoilless, I was really interested in the short carry though, for obvious reasons.
Appreciate ya. I'll definitely grab some if they show up around here.😎👍
The only thing I don't like about this ammo is they make your tool just dirty as heck! Other than that, I love em, and they also make your edc lighter! Great video as always, appreciate you Sir!
Thank you sir.
I carry these when I'm packing my G27 tool but I don't train with them and I really should. Great video as always.
Thank you sir.
This is my primary carry ammo in my carbine and 9mm hellcat
Great video, i can't wait to get some of that ammo for my g27. Thanks my friend for a great test.
Thank you sir.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets your welcome 👍👍👍
The Underwood 357 Sig 68gr XD round smokes this Liberty ammo. The UA 357 XD round is even faster and gets deeper more effective barrier blind penetration. But if you like this fast Liberty ammo you can get it in 357 Sig where it gets a velocity of 2300+ fps out of a 4.5 inch barrel.
😎👍
You should test this against the Sinterfire ammo
Good for close quarters like dense crowded environments, no worries about defense with over penetration, My Ruger LCP 380 and crowded socially non permissive areas where I want deep cover if needed, everyone at some point depending on environment will need a small gun, anyone new to guns should have like a micro, and compact and a duty size gun
😎👍
Good vid, Brian! Like you, I wonder if the base alone carries enough punch to get deep into vitals and from what I've seen, it does not! If all your shots were straight on chest shots, it would probably do a good job, if nothing else just by the sudden energy dump. Still, if anything were to get in the way of the shot, such as an arm, hand or a bit of a car door, I suspect you would end up with a massive flesh wound and a small puncture wound. I suppose if you had to make all head shots in the zombie apocalypse, these would definitely do the job, but since that's not something I plan for, I think I'll stick with my Lehigh Xtreme Defender bullets!
Cheers,
jc
These would pop a zombie head like a rotten melon! 💥🧟♂️💥
I'd like to see that out of a carbine. Great video, as always, brother. 👏 👏 👏
Thank you sir.
Liberty also has their ammo in "Ultra-Light", at least in 9mm +P. The bullet is the same, but it has an odd 2-piece case, with an aluminum case head and a steel section that holds the projectile and powder. The box claims a 50 gr. bullet listed at 2040 fps. I keep a mag loaded with these rounds for when I want an extra mag but weight is a priority. I just did a test on my food scale in my kitchen, and with my 365 12 round mag filled with these Liberty Ultra Lights, the scale showed 5 ounces even. With another 12 round mag full of 115 V Crowns, the weight is 7.5 ounces. That's a 50% increase in weight over the Liberty Ultra Light. 124's or 149's would be an even bigger weight increase, naturally. So when I'm pocket carrying in some shorts and don't want my clothes to get tangled around my knees, I can carry a full 12 extra rounds with a (slightly) lighter weight than a 365 10 round flush mag with only 7 rounds in it, if my little scale is to be believed! I'm like you, and don't 100% trust the Liberty for primary EDC, but I like it enough to have a mag loaded with it as a super lightweight backup. If I ever NEED that extra 12, then that means that there have already been 11 rounds of better-in-my -opinion rounds that were already used, so to me, that weight savings is a true benefit for a backup mag, and if I ever need to cap a 4 legged critter, I would actually prefer the Liberty because those things do some MAJOR shallow damage!
Makes sense.😎👊
I just started carrying these in 9mm and .40. The .40 put huge holes in a pumkin last sunday
💥🎃💥
Good video. I’m absolutely sold on this stuff
They perform the same through a car door. Through the door and the fragmentation and base penetration in 10% gel is exactly the same as with no door. I dont really understand how, but, somehow it does so, consistently. Personally, I like it. But u know that since i tell u everytime u mention it 😂
I might have something workin to test some vehicle barriers.😎👊
Would love to see real world shooting results of this ammo
All I carry is Civil Defense in my 9mm handgun (Tisas PX9) & I've actually successfully self defended myself with this ammo & all I can say is the threat won't be celebrating any more birthdays 🤷🏾♂️
Thanks for posting brother, i like this stuff in 9 mm and 45 acp but i will stick to my Hornady critical duty 135 gr. +p in my edc firearm. Great shooting and stay armed.
Thank you sir.😎👊
This man does an excellent job
Appreciate that!😎👊
Great video , thanks for sharing 👍🏼