thanks for that chaps. the boiler has 5mm ceramic fibre lagging and a tin plate outer skin. next i will lag the steam pipe and if possible fit a superheater but there may not be enough room in the firebox. its all an experiment but at least it worked after half a years work !!
I wonder if some insulation would help it, and running the steam line to the turbine as close to the boiler as possible such that the steam stays hot instead of condensing in the pipe. Like, if the boiler and furnace had a second outer wall with either a vacuum or some insulative material in between to keep the heat in. The steam line could then be soldered to the side of the boiler as far along its length of travel as possible, or better yet run inside the furnace and boiler instead of free air. Taller smoke stacks may improve the rate at which air is drawn through the furnace, improving the rate at which the fuel is burned. If you want to get really efficent with your furnace, you want a funnel which is narrow at the furnace and expands gradually as it rises. This would generate a significant pressure gradiant due to the rising heat, the narrow base would give you a higher velocity and low pressure at that point, further drawing air through the firebox. Are you using a fan, or a blower? Electronics suppliers sell cheap blower fans in PC fan sizes. There is a big difference across fan and blower designs which effect their ability to diliver airflow or pressure. I believe you want pressure differential instead of airflow, and a pusher design instead of puller. You may be able to find a fan/blower that moves multiple times the air volume for the same power draw if you havent optimized this yet. I believe that the turbine would perform better in free air as it is. My limited engineering experience tells me that the efficiency of a heat engine is the ratio of the hot side to the cold side,. So, you want the maximum amount of heat possible entering the turbine, and expanding as close as you can get to ambient temperature. Without a close up of the turbine design, Im not sure if it is only using steam pressure or velocity from a nozzle. There may be some potential gained by allowing ambient air into the system somehow. Cool air will expand when heated to several hundred degrees. Not as much as water/steam does because of the phase change, but still a lot. Jet engines, piston gasoline engines, firearms, and other internal combustion engines rely on the heat of the combustion expanding the volume/pressure of the air inside the combustion chamber, rather than vaporization like an external combustion steam engine. Im not sure what the ratio is for atmospheric air.
I'm just a guy who tinkers, not an expert on anything. I figured that since you said this was an experiment, you may be open to the musings of a fellow madman. I enjoyed the video, congratulations on a second successful test!
@@SpecialEDy oi! no letting out the secret! i get strange looks when i say engines run on air... "but but its oxygen and fuel... its physics" no, its compressing air then heating it to raise the pressure, and mixing it with fuel and burning it is a really convenient way of doing it, if a bit rough and antiquated... first person ive ever seen talk about heating compressed air. maybe youve been reading my posts, lol... if not, you read the same sort of engineering books from yesteryear where this stuff is common knowledge... lol. it IS physics. dah. lot of misunderstood concepts these days. gotta laugh at these guys that put oil coolers on air compressors... AFTER the tank. sure, cool it down BEFORE the tank and dry it out... but you wanna HEAT it before using it again. thats the key. for every 249C you double the work it took to compress it. theres a portugeuse video of someone running a turbocharger on a heat exchanger, just hot air. i really love the idea of external combustion turbines. i made a fireplace with two walls with teh idea of the same thing, just um... yeah. couldnt be bothered strapping the turbo on and dealing with oil lines and crap for what probably wont work as its too small... from what ive seen of turbines, 400C is about right to overcome the losses and become "self sustaining". i can hit that, no probs. but can i do it to cubic meters of air per second? hmmmmm... no! still, makes a great shed heater. thats the main purpose. i just made it as a pressure vessel as well with an experiment in mind... you start to re-evaluate the way engines run when you get it out of your head that its solely about burning stuff, that there is no "explosion", just a rise in pressure from supplying heat.... i like the idea of these compressed air engines feeding into multiple stages of expansion, each one heat exchanged then finally exhaust into one single cylinder thats doing the combustion to supply the heat needed for all the exchangers... no pumping loss as its already compressed, so its running a lenoir type cycle... dont get me started on the lenoir cycle and what it could achieve with some forced induction... "its old, its inefficent, its obsolete, now shutup" trying to track down an old sohc 4 banger about 2.4L is suddenly surprisingly hard... i wanna try something with reground cams, ignition... and compounded turbocharging. lenoir didnt have no turbocharger in 1860! ten years ago there was one in nearly every paddock.. p.s. its a delaval type turbine he has here. diverging nozzle to get maximum steam velocity from conversion of heat to kinetic energy through expansion. silly high speeds. were always too high. even for delavals milk separators he had to gear down tremendously. should be compounded a bit. aka curtiss turbine. fiddly when small. inefficient. everything you say about heat is 100% spot on. it needs more insulation to really get going. not bad for an experiment, i must add.
@@rearspeaker6364 yay, long live the land of freedom where stupidity is the trending topic, where intelligence or thinking outside the box is deemed "too complimicated". wave that flag, those stars and strips. and if you dont like it, we got the bomb. what is it about being ignorant that feels so cool? why do you have to pipe up and shout about your lack of general knowledge? why do you feel the urge to try and pull others down to your level when they show the slightest sign of intellect? do you have anything of any MERIT to add to this conversation other than yet another boorish comment highlighting your own ineptitude?
What an absolute work of art, great job!
thanks for that chaps. the boiler has 5mm ceramic fibre lagging and a tin plate outer skin. next i will lag the steam pipe and if possible fit a superheater but there may not be enough room in the firebox. its all an experiment but at least it worked after half a years work !!
I wonder if some insulation would help it, and running the steam line to the turbine as close to the boiler as possible such that the steam stays hot instead of condensing in the pipe.
Like, if the boiler and furnace had a second outer wall with either a vacuum or some insulative material in between to keep the heat in. The steam line could then be soldered to the side of the boiler as far along its length of travel as possible, or better yet run inside the furnace and boiler instead of free air.
Taller smoke stacks may improve the rate at which air is drawn through the furnace, improving the rate at which the fuel is burned. If you want to get really efficent with your furnace, you want a funnel which is narrow at the furnace and expands gradually as it rises. This would generate a significant pressure gradiant due to the rising heat, the narrow base would give you a higher velocity and low pressure at that point, further drawing air through the firebox.
Are you using a fan, or a blower? Electronics suppliers sell cheap blower fans in PC fan sizes. There is a big difference across fan and blower designs which effect their ability to diliver airflow or pressure. I believe you want pressure differential instead of airflow, and a pusher design instead of puller. You may be able to find a fan/blower that moves multiple times the air volume for the same power draw if you havent optimized this yet.
I believe that the turbine would perform better in free air as it is. My limited engineering experience tells me that the efficiency of a heat engine is the ratio of the hot side to the cold side,. So, you want the maximum amount of heat possible entering the turbine, and expanding as close as you can get to ambient temperature.
Without a close up of the turbine design, Im not sure if it is only using steam pressure or velocity from a nozzle. There may be some potential gained by allowing ambient air into the system somehow. Cool air will expand when heated to several hundred degrees. Not as much as water/steam does because of the phase change, but still a lot. Jet engines, piston gasoline engines, firearms, and other internal combustion engines rely on the heat of the combustion expanding the volume/pressure of the air inside the combustion chamber, rather than vaporization like an external combustion steam engine. Im not sure what the ratio is for atmospheric air.
I'm just a guy who tinkers, not an expert on anything. I figured that since you said this was an experiment, you may be open to the musings of a fellow madman.
I enjoyed the video, congratulations on a second successful test!
@@SpecialEDy oi! no letting out the secret!
i get strange looks when i say engines run on air... "but but its oxygen and fuel... its physics"
no, its compressing air then heating it to raise the pressure, and mixing it with fuel and burning it is a really convenient way of doing it, if a bit rough and antiquated...
first person ive ever seen talk about heating compressed air. maybe youve been reading my posts, lol... if not, you read the same sort of engineering books from yesteryear where this stuff is common knowledge...
lol. it IS physics. dah. lot of misunderstood concepts these days.
gotta laugh at these guys that put oil coolers on air compressors... AFTER the tank.
sure, cool it down BEFORE the tank and dry it out...
but you wanna HEAT it before using it again. thats the key.
for every 249C you double the work it took to compress it.
theres a portugeuse video of someone running a turbocharger on a heat exchanger, just hot air. i really love the idea of external combustion turbines. i made a fireplace with two walls with teh idea of the same thing, just um... yeah. couldnt be bothered strapping the turbo on and dealing with oil lines and crap for what probably wont work as its too small...
from what ive seen of turbines, 400C is about right to overcome the losses and become "self sustaining". i can hit that, no probs. but can i do it to cubic meters of air per second? hmmmmm... no!
still, makes a great shed heater. thats the main purpose. i just made it as a pressure vessel as well with an experiment in mind...
you start to re-evaluate the way engines run when you get it out of your head that its solely about burning stuff, that there is no "explosion", just a rise in pressure from supplying heat....
i like the idea of these compressed air engines feeding into multiple stages of expansion, each one heat exchanged then finally exhaust into one single cylinder thats doing the combustion to supply the heat needed for all the exchangers... no pumping loss as its already compressed, so its running a lenoir type cycle...
dont get me started on the lenoir cycle and what it could achieve with some forced induction... "its old, its inefficent, its obsolete, now shutup"
trying to track down an old sohc 4 banger about 2.4L is suddenly surprisingly hard... i wanna try something with reground cams, ignition... and compounded turbocharging. lenoir didnt have no turbocharger in 1860!
ten years ago there was one in nearly every paddock..
p.s. its a delaval type turbine he has here. diverging nozzle to get maximum steam velocity from conversion of heat to kinetic energy through expansion.
silly high speeds. were always too high. even for delavals milk separators he had to gear down tremendously.
should be compounded a bit. aka curtiss turbine.
fiddly when small. inefficient.
everything you say about heat is 100% spot on. it needs more insulation to really get going.
not bad for an experiment, i must add.
@@paradiselost9946 you and @SpecialEDy need to get a room together!! it's a toy, not the USS United States.
@@rearspeaker6364 yay, long live the land of freedom where stupidity is the trending topic, where intelligence or thinking outside the box is deemed "too complimicated". wave that flag, those stars and strips. and if you dont like it, we got the bomb.
what is it about being ignorant that feels so cool? why do you have to pipe up and shout about your lack of general knowledge? why do you feel the urge to try and pull others down to your level when they show the slightest sign of intellect?
do you have anything of any MERIT to add to this conversation other than yet another boorish comment highlighting your own ineptitude?
Cute :)
nice, that shows the boilers up to it.
superheater and some lagging next.
A "Flight of the Phoenix" moment. Gorgeous.
😍😍😍