@@markshellard Trickle charge adds around 4 miles per hour of charging. If you charge 10 hours per night you could do 40 miles every day. More if you plug in during the day.
I saved $8,500 in fuel costs in the first year of ownership of my model 3 (I drive 40k / year). It cost me $1,150 in charging cost (mixed home and supercharger). It’s a no brainer.
@@zruthl So far so good and based on the data odds are against this happening. Do the math over 5 years and I would still be way ahead even if the battery died.
Only 8k... It's not worth it!! The price between ICE medel and EV is much more than 8k. 🤣 Not to mention registration and insurance, which is higher for EVs. Tires are 1x more expensive than for ICE vehicles. For 8k, no one can convince me to buy an EV. Not even for 15k... Because the price is higher for an EV and even in 1 year, you lose more money on EV than for an ICE vehicle.
@@dchubworldsharenetwork My actual experience has been different. 1st OE set of tires lasted only 30,000 km not because the car is heavy (model 3 is same weight as BMW 3 series ICE), but because when you own your first ev you enjoy leaving everyone behind you in the dust. Eventually yu start to drive like less of an a-hole and guess what, I'm still on my second set of tires at 123,000 km (Michelin Pilot Sport AS). Yes they are getting low now. Insurance cost me the same as previous BMW X1, so that's not true. I've spent money on 1 set of wiper blades, cabin air filter (twice) and washer fluid. Multiply the $8,000 savings (which are conservative) x 6 years and the Tesla model 3 paid for itself including sales tax. Enjoy sending your hard earned money to OPEC.
I am proud of EV Pulse for posting this video. Most EV channels avoid talking about the negative factors in EV ownership. But, if these issues prevent someone from converting to electric. Then there are likely other issues that they are struggling with. Such as politics or just fear of the unknown.
Great overview. I just want to see more small cars in this segment. Feel automakers arent doing enough, or are prioritizing larger EVs due to their (understandable) higher profitability.
Agreed!!! It's disappointing to see companies looking to build only on profit rather than what people want. I can't imagine that tactic will work because people who want smaller cars aren't going to buy big and pricey just because that's what they're offering.
@@eileen_a_b Or maybe the only way to fund research into EV technology and eventually bring the price down is to sell it to wealthier people willing to pay for premium EVs. Don’t forget that ABS, cruise control, and a whole bunch of other technologies all started in more expensive cars before becoming affordable to go mainstream. According to a recent research report I read, Rivian loses $40k-$45k per vehicle they sell. They’re still trying to scale the expensive technology.
1) Go to your Ford dealership. There are no F150s around for less than mid 60s 2) Check your state. My state has no additional reg fees. Even the ones that do, it's usually a small fraction of what you'd spend on gas. 3) My M3P is the cheapest vehicle i've ever insured, but shop around. Some insurance companies are very high for EVs, but not all. Progressive was cheaper for my M3P than my VW GTI 4) I could care less about battery replacement costs because i'll never be doing it 5) 48A charger is $425, install is a standard 220v circuit. 3 wires and breaker, anyone can DIY it with a little research. 5) Tires wear 15% faster. The $900 or so i'll be spending on tires is same as i'd be spending on an ICE sports sedan. 6) Resale value...yeah that one's a concern. Historically it's been good on my car but we'll see. 7) $14 at home vs $40 for gas. Electricity is cheap 8) Time to charge, if you have a level 2 home charger, is usually irrelevant. It only matters on days where you drive 250+ miles and need to stop at a charging station. For most Americans, that's a few days / year where you may need a 10 minute charge stop to complete a trip, unless you're the type that always goes on long road trips.
The time to charge is a massive saving over ICE cars. Local journeys covered by overnight charges. Takes 30 seconds to plug in vs having to go to petrol station every week or two weeks. And on long journeys I dont have to be with the car while it charges, unlike putting gas in. I usually charge where I want a break every 2-3 hours, so this adds no time to my stop. Over 4 years of EV ownership I have waited at chargers a total of 20 minutes over and above my normal break time. I’ll take that.
Many (most?) US households have more than one vehicle. We went EV to supplement our existing ICE SUV. The occasional time we go on a “road trip” we take the ICE. Meanwhile our EV saves us gobs of money during its three year lease for daily commute and local driving which is the *vast* majority use-case of most drivers compared to us owning another ICE.
EV fan myself and this is one of the best EV skeptic comments I've read. But misses on a few: 4) depends on chemistry & luck (per video). LFP can feasibly be rock solid, unless physical or water damage occurs. Sure Tesla has gotten next level re: battery seal (driving in UAE flood) but physical damage is rolling the dice unless scrutinized by currently hard to find expert$. Vetted battery can still leave u without OEM warranty, which evaporate quick re: physical damage. 5) 15% if folks drive like you. 6) I'd reframe. Bad for sellers; great for buyers as ICE continues to price out younger folks. Larger inequality discussion. 8) You go off the rails at "10 minute" to "complete a trip". That's a decidedly short road trip in a small vehicle. To have a Full Day of driving, Model Y, two drivers in **ideal** conditions 10 to 80% is ~27 minutes (250kw dedicated Supercharger session). Fine if having a sit down lunch but not great for bathroom break & fast food. Not ideal: cold weather, derated / occupied charger, EV truck, puts it well over 1 hour! Special event (eclipse) many hours. This is why Hertz attempt fell flat fast, instead of having L2's at their locations for 30s of effort & overnight slow charge they required cars be returned with 90% SOC. Even well meaning folks found this unreasonable given the "road trip+10%" time commit scenario this forced them into so they mostly returned the EV as is; leaving the next renter to deal with it. China is moving fast but road trip ready IMO means 373mi / 600km in ~10 mins / 6C rate when cold; or reasonable time for washroom & to go meal. Do people drive that much between breaks? Usually no, but this accounts for elevation / weather / route changes, HVAC & more (roof?) cargo. Ideally there are L2 destination chargers in place for folks to truly optimize DC charging, but we mostly won't be there this decade.
For me, who just leased a KIA Niro EV Wave, the positives FAR outweigh the negatives. Here's why. I live in NJ. I received both Federal and State tax credits as I leased. I get $250 back from one NJ Agency for buying a level 2 charger (ChargePoint); another $1500 (give or take) back from the Utility company for the cost of professional installation (no need to upgrade my electrical panel), and KIA gives you 500 kWh free with Electrify America. I paid no NJ sales tax, and I have solar roof panels so my home charging will basically be free. My monthly lease payment is much lower than my previous Hyundai lease amount, which will help offset the increase in my insurance premium. Finally, I don't drive a whole lot, so my tire life should last a couple of years before they may need to be replaced. Overall, EV driving isn't for everyone -- why hybrids are the biggest sellers -- but for me, the EV version was less than the Hybrids because nobody wants an EV, so my dealership was more "generous" in lowering the final selling price; as well as not charging me for the "crap" add ons they put in the car, such as Nitrogen in the tires!!
Cali has a state sponsored credit of an aditional $7500 and on top of that for low income another up to $9000 for a total of $21,000 off, so not surprising that Cali is leading in EV sales and ownership.
Charging overall is a time saver when you do it at home vs filling up. Even fast charging my ioniq 5 is just slightly longer than filling a tank. I used to fill up at Costco and the line is always 3-4 cars deep. Pumps run at 9 gallons a minute, if everyone is getting 14 gallons thats 1.5 minutes of fill time *4 plus say 30 seconds to transition. 10 minutes minimum if you count me filling up.
I wonder if you can do a video comparing the benefits of replacing an EV after say, 6-8 years, when the battery warranty is done to keeping it for the life of the car after paying it off. I kept my last gas car 15 years (almost 16). Now that I have an EV, I wonder if it's worth doing the same with an EV.
Have to wonder how each car model behaves as the battery degrades. The big question is whether your aging EV simply needs to be recharged more often, or is it programmed to stop working completely once the battery gets to a truly terrible state?
Most EVs are still doing fine after the warranty. Keep in mind the battery usually doesn’t just “fail” like an engine or transmission can. They may not hold as much charge as they used to but you can still use the car and just charge more often. Kinda like gas cars that no longer get the same gas mileage they did when they were new.
As to insurance. I got a quote for swapping a ten-year-old minivan for an Equinox EV (gave them a VIN). Despite the WIDE difference in car-value, my rates DROP. They count all the automated braking for cars and people. I was very surprised.
Yeah...I had a Nissan Araya blue, just like the first car in your video...the higher end....and at 732 miles is was T-boned and totaled. Fortunately I have a decent record and my insurance didn't go up. I have a very good company and good credit rating. I decided on an Ioniq 5 to replace it. I wish I could justify the cost of Witricity. I do have two EVSEs on 40 amp 14-50s.
I’m not seeing the tire thing. My 2013 Cadillac ATS ate up tires in 20k miles. Those same brand, model, and size tire lasted 30k miles on my Tesla Model 3.
Correction. Registration fees, well for me that is, comes in as huge savings. Here in AZ, a person with a new car (ICE vehicle) can pay around $500/year. My new Leaf costs we a whopping $45 for FIVE years.
I bought a 2020 Bolt which after all costs and incentives was $6500.00 OTD. My insurance didn’t go up, I did my Level 2 for $200.00 and my annual fuel saving is around $1000 based on $3.00 gallon gas. When maintenance is included this car will have paid for itself in 5 years while still being under warranty. I charge at home so my time spent at gas stations is zero. ICE has a big advantage on trips over 200 miles in any given day but so far not an issue.
Top tips: if you want an economy ev, don't buy a luxury EV. If you don't want to use up tires, slow down. Don't buy any vehicle as an investment many people can get a level 2 charger installed for not too expensive, you may be able to get by on a 120v outlet, preferably dedicated Insurance is comparable to gas car, more for expensive higher performance Vehicles tend to be more expensive. You can start driving an EV right away, plug it in where you can until you get optimal setup. Battery replacement is not a regular thing, they have an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty, at that point it's a different equation
A fair assessment of costs. It's important to get the whole story of EV ownership out though I agree that the benefits greatly outweigh the drawbacks. I'm not sure that I agree with you about the cost in time. While it is certainly true that long-distance travel takes longer, for most of the year I am saving time by not visiting gas stations.
You could also argue that overnight charging doesn't take any time at all, because you aren't staying with the car while it charges. You're doing other things.
I'm from India and just bought my first EV (Tata Punch ). Prices and taxes vary by state, but Registration fee is significantly lower than ICE and ditto for road tax. In fact a state called Uttar Pradesh waived off the road tax for Electrics.
Impressive, India seems to know how to get people to switch to EVs. Unfortunately, some western countries just seem to know how to rip of people. Especially the insurance companies charge you a leg and an arm for the EV basic insurance and here in Canada, there is no competition with regards to basic insurance. I bought an EV anyways just because they are fun to drive. Have fun with your EV.
@@cmdrstevemcmaru7417 well another way they are doing it is by emissions standards as well. Strict engine compliance to Euro 6 and soon to come Euro 7 compliance and diesel unfriendly regulations means no more peppy gasoline/diesel engines and no more affordable performance ICE cars. EVs with their linear acceleration fits that space nicely. Do a youtube search on Tata Curvv EV Autocar, they launched it 2 days back
Great video. I should mention though that it's US-oriented, and it seems that there are still less incentives there comparing to Europe. In my country, the government substracts from the price from 9000 to 11000 euros. Also, the annual registration fee is zero (comparing to 250 euros for ICE) and the insurance cost has no difference at all. Additionally, since we use 220V it's much cheaper to install a wallbox - you can even charge with 3.5kW from a special house plug. Same as in the US, charging from home is 3 times cheaper than gas. We can also choose from Chinese brands like MG and BYD and get cars with amazing specs in the price of a Yaris. I should state also that out-of-warranty issues in battery don't need complete battery replacement, just the cell that has the problem, which now may cost about 800 euros, but after 7-8 years that the car will be out of warranty it could be less than 200.
I was fortunate to have gotten $15K off of the OTD of $29,290 plus I got the $500 GM EVGO charge card and a $2K Master Card charge card It's been nine months yet I only have around 1600 miles on my EV swoopty (Bolt) Those charge credits will expire before I use them up I am going to hang out at the charging station and give out free charges
As a man, I can't compare a XLT lighting to a non XLT 150. Especially if I'm going to spec the two out so that they match as much as possible. Which doesn't make it 27K less. Fees don't cost more, you pay them up front since you are not buying taxed fuel, they are also the same in insurance as most people are not going from a base civic to a model 3 performance. Batteries are extremely cheap to replace if you at least past 9th grade math and have hit full adulthood in finances. The charger installation is subjective, meaning that if you live in a house that lacks 150AMPs or more less than 6 additional spaces, more than likely, you don't even own a gas car over 50K. Because if you did, you wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. As for tires, if you owned an actual performance vehicle you already know this isn't an issue, this also applies to resale value. Also as an adult, you should know that buying a luxury performance car or any car for that matter, is not a financial strategy. charging at home and or DC charger is cheaper vs gas always, all the time. lol. Again compare the correct performances. Not a 4 cyl 200HP car to a 400HP EV. Time is irrelevant, unless you are travel loooong distances and they have these things called planes, if time was truly and importance. The time it takes to charge while you are grocery shopping is a pointless topic. You are shopping, while the car is filling back up. This never happens with a gas car. I think I covered everything, for anyone still confused or concern about switching if they come across this video. The only concern you truly need to have with an EV, especially teslas, are body work cost / time to repair. That's it. If you are a tuner who is still doing that near retirement........then this isn't the move for you. If you are a business who hauls extremely heavy equipment or objects, this isn't the technology for you, yet.
Thanks for sharing this info. I’m fully aware of the unexpected expenses in owning an EV. There is something coming down the pipe which is the maintenance of public roads tax. When you pay for gasoline, some of the taxes you’re paying is to maintain public roads. As for the EV owners, the government is working on a solution to be taxed accordingly. So watch out !!!
Evs don't pollute as much so the costs of healthcare are lower. Medicare and Medicaid spend less on respiratory care and other pollution related problems
I'd strongly disagree about the higher maintenance expenses, but the rest are fair shots. It's also good to point out that with high enough mileage, you wipe out all those extra costs with fuel savings...
Actually statistics show the used car market for ICE vehicles is softening but the used EV market is cratering. As for new EV's most dealers have over a 100 day supply. Ford had several hundred thousand preorders for the Lightening and the Mach E. Those orders evaporated so now there are plenty to choose from.
price is a choice, not mandatory, here in Australia there are lots of Chinese cars, that smash ICE vehicles, insurance is lineball too, mentioning fires, ICE vehicles are 100 times more than EV’ to catch fire, per 100,000 vehicles.
Plenty of junk yards in Michigan want you to charge extra or won’t accept electric vehicles due to disposal of electric batteries and the risk of electrical fires.
People don't want to buy used to get an old battery that has reduced efficiency and then get stuck with replacement charge. Where I lived I charged 184 miles taking 19h21m, before a trip and it costs $5.28
I want to remind you that a Tax Credit is not the same as a Rebate. You have to owe taxes to use a tax credit. Rebates are available without owing taxes.
Pro EV proponents tend to make silly comparisons when faced with the expensive cost of battery replacements. I mean how has ever had to replace a gas engine in their car. EVs, when compared to gasoline engines, are nothing more than trading costs for quick refill (gasoline) for time (charging batteries).
Maybe true, not that common to replace the entire engine these days, however i have had to fork out several times for engine relates repairs that cost maybe 1/3 the value of my 14 year old car. And the times ive heard of people having to decide whether to pay for the entire worth of their older VW when the tranny blows, or 1/4 value of a newer VW when the tranny goes……
Great video, but you forgot fire risk. EV lithium ion batteries have increased fire risk. While the likelihood is very low, the damage that will occur from a Li-ion battery fire is substantial (there are videos of EV's burning while underwater, yes - the Li-ion battery is a chemical reaction that can burn underwater). For this reason, I think keeping an EV in your garage has some increased risk for which owners should be aware. I park my F150 lightning outside (it doesn't really fit in the garage anyway).
Beware Tesla body/paint repairs. Has to be a certified collision shop which means mini-monopoly and price gouging. Scraped rear door and quarter panel…should be max $2-$3k. Quotes are $5-$6k.
Who will buy my EV after eight years, knowing that they will soon need a new $30,000 installed battery? I will most likely need to park it on the street with a sign that says “FREE for the TAKING, in return please donate $25.00 to your favorite food bank”.
There's an old saying "a half-truth, is a whole lie". I would dare say you hook perfect this:-( Scientia Habet Non Domus, (Knowledge Has No Home) antiguajohn
ford and others don't really want to manufacture or sell ev's. Their bread and butter is gas engines, and with the increasing emission laws, becoming more expensive to make, operate and maintain. E.V's with few moving parts, low heat cycling and relative simplicity, will take over the market sooner than later.
I’m sure you didn’t mean it, but this video is very adjacent to FUD! You’re exaggerating and you’re being a bit hyperbolic I’m sorry I love most of your videos but this one just kind of missed the mark for me.
Point taken. One thing we’ll note is every item on this list people have said they are surprised about. Higher registration fees in some states to offset the gas tax, quicker tire wear, etc… are they big deals? No. But the anti-EV folks grasp onto these gotchas and say people don’t talk about them. But I do respect your input here and appreciate you taking the time to comment. - Chad
I don't think this video, and this channel, provides a fair comparison between EV and ICE vehicles. For example, although it has been repeated over and over by mass media, the insurance cost is driven mostly based on the cost/value of a car rather than the power train. A $50K car, ICE or EV will have higher insurance than a $30K car, ICE or EV. Another example, the Fed mandates that EV battery has a minimum 8 years or 100K miles warranty. Some EV manufacturers exceed this requirement. Also, when not abused, expect EV battery to last longer than its warranty. It goes beyond 8-10 years warranty and it goes beyond 100K mileage warranty.
We're a pro-EV channel and you're providing pro-EV details. How is that not, you know, fair? Actually, EV repair costs are skewed heavily by Tesla, who use large castings for most manufacturing. It makes repairing a car significantly more expensive than cars that aren't mega-casted (even other EVs). But when you look at average EV repair costs, Tesla makes up the majority of that average. Additionally, insurance isn't dictated by the value of the car, but by the value of the car and the number of people who file claims against that car. A Porsche 911 can be cheaper to insure than a Nissan Altima because many more people out there with Big Altima Energy are writing off their cars than Porsche 911 owners are. We're not actuaries, and from the looks of it, neither are you. Individual insurance rates will vary. Yes, battery warranties are 8 years. Some are longer. Many companies are working right now on ways to repurpose, recycle, and continue to use those batteries at their end-of-life, and that end-of-life is likely going to be longer than the warranty period in many cases. But since batteries are mass-produced, not every single battery will last the same amount of time. But since many cars are still under warranty, it's hard to get a grasp on what battery replacement costs are going to be. While we think it's not going to be a big deal, if you needed to replace a battery today it's also not cheap. Fortunately, many won't have to replace today.
Do you really need to spend money on a home charger? We tackle that question here: th-cam.com/video/jNE9VCFKDTQ/w-d-xo.html
I charged my first EV for 5 years on the included L1 slow cord. 50 km per day of driving replenished overnight
Yes unless you never drive above 5 miles a day, in which case you can use the Level 1 cord.
@@markshellard Trickle charge adds around 4 miles per hour of charging. If you charge 10 hours per night you could do 40 miles every day. More if you plug in during the day.
I saved $8,500 in fuel costs in the first year of ownership of my model 3 (I drive 40k / year). It cost me $1,150 in charging cost (mixed home and supercharger). It’s a no brainer.
i bet you cant travel accross country and you will pay $10,000 to $20,000 to replace batteries when they are done
@@zruthl So far so good and based on the data odds are against this happening. Do the math over 5 years and I would still be way ahead even if the battery died.
Only 8k... It's not worth it!!
The price between ICE medel and EV is much more than 8k. 🤣
Not to mention registration and insurance, which is higher for EVs.
Tires are 1x more expensive than for ICE vehicles.
For 8k, no one can convince me to buy an EV. Not even for 15k...
Because the price is higher for an EV and even in 1 year, you lose more money on EV than for an ICE vehicle.
@@dchubworldsharenetwork My actual experience has been different. 1st OE set of tires lasted only 30,000 km not because the car is heavy (model 3 is same weight as BMW 3 series ICE), but because when you own your first ev you enjoy leaving everyone behind you in the dust. Eventually yu start to drive like less of an a-hole and guess what, I'm still on my second set of tires at 123,000 km (Michelin Pilot Sport AS). Yes they are getting low now. Insurance cost me the same as previous BMW X1, so that's not true. I've spent money on 1 set of wiper blades, cabin air filter (twice) and washer fluid. Multiply the $8,000 savings (which are conservative) x 6 years and the Tesla model 3 paid for itself including sales tax. Enjoy sending your hard earned money to OPEC.
Based on your numbers, if you saved $8500/yr driving 40k miles you were averaging 12mpg if gas was roughly $3/gal. Hmmmmmmm.
I am proud of EV Pulse for posting this video. Most EV channels avoid talking about the negative factors in EV ownership. But, if these issues prevent someone from converting to electric. Then there are likely other issues that they are struggling with. Such as politics or just fear of the unknown.
No ev's cost to much.
@@PShawtx I hear this all the time. Last year average price of a pickup was $56,200. There are plenty of EVs for under $45k. And even some under $35k.
Great overview. I just want to see more small cars in this segment. Feel automakers arent doing enough, or are prioritizing larger EVs due to their (understandable) higher profitability.
Agreed!!! It's disappointing to see companies looking to build only on profit rather than what people want. I can't imagine that tactic will work because people who want smaller cars aren't going to buy big and pricey just because that's what they're offering.
@@eileen_a_b Or maybe the only way to fund research into EV technology and eventually bring the price down is to sell it to wealthier people willing to pay for premium EVs. Don’t forget that ABS, cruise control, and a whole bunch of other technologies all started in more expensive cars before becoming affordable to go mainstream. According to a recent research report I read, Rivian loses $40k-$45k per vehicle they sell. They’re still trying to scale the expensive technology.
1) Go to your Ford dealership. There are no F150s around for less than mid 60s
2) Check your state. My state has no additional reg fees. Even the ones that do, it's usually a small fraction of what you'd spend on gas.
3) My M3P is the cheapest vehicle i've ever insured, but shop around. Some insurance companies are very high for EVs, but not all. Progressive was cheaper for my M3P than my VW GTI
4) I could care less about battery replacement costs because i'll never be doing it
5) 48A charger is $425, install is a standard 220v circuit. 3 wires and breaker, anyone can DIY it with a little research.
5) Tires wear 15% faster. The $900 or so i'll be spending on tires is same as i'd be spending on an ICE sports sedan.
6) Resale value...yeah that one's a concern. Historically it's been good on my car but we'll see.
7) $14 at home vs $40 for gas. Electricity is cheap
8) Time to charge, if you have a level 2 home charger, is usually irrelevant. It only matters on days where you drive 250+ miles and need to stop at a charging station. For most Americans, that's a few days / year where you may need a 10 minute charge stop to complete a trip, unless you're the type that always goes on long road trips.
The time to charge is a massive saving over ICE cars. Local journeys covered by overnight charges. Takes 30 seconds to plug in vs having to go to petrol station every week or two weeks.
And on long journeys I dont have to be with the car while it charges, unlike putting gas in. I usually charge where I want a break every 2-3 hours, so this adds no time to my stop. Over 4 years of EV ownership I have waited at chargers a total of 20 minutes over and above my normal break time. I’ll take that.
Many (most?) US households have more than one vehicle. We went EV to supplement our existing ICE SUV. The occasional time we go on a “road trip” we take the ICE. Meanwhile our EV saves us gobs of money during its three year lease for daily commute and local driving which is the *vast* majority use-case of most drivers compared to us owning another ICE.
EV fan myself and this is one of the best EV skeptic comments I've read. But misses on a few:
4) depends on chemistry & luck (per video). LFP can feasibly be rock solid, unless physical or water damage occurs. Sure Tesla has gotten next level re: battery seal (driving in UAE flood) but physical damage is rolling the dice unless scrutinized by currently hard to find expert$. Vetted battery can still leave u without OEM warranty, which evaporate quick re: physical damage.
5) 15% if folks drive like you.
6) I'd reframe. Bad for sellers; great for buyers as ICE continues to price out younger folks. Larger inequality discussion.
8) You go off the rails at "10 minute" to "complete a trip". That's a decidedly short road trip in a small vehicle. To have a Full Day of driving, Model Y, two drivers in **ideal** conditions 10 to 80% is ~27 minutes (250kw dedicated Supercharger session). Fine if having a sit down lunch but not great for bathroom break & fast food. Not ideal: cold weather, derated / occupied charger, EV truck, puts it well over 1 hour! Special event (eclipse) many hours.
This is why Hertz attempt fell flat fast, instead of having L2's at their locations for 30s of effort & overnight slow charge they required cars be returned with 90% SOC. Even well meaning folks found this unreasonable given the "road trip+10%" time commit scenario this forced them into so they mostly returned the EV as is; leaving the next renter to deal with it. China is moving fast but road trip ready IMO means 373mi / 600km in ~10 mins / 6C rate when cold; or reasonable time for washroom & to go meal. Do people drive that much between breaks? Usually no, but this accounts for elevation / weather / route changes, HVAC & more (roof?) cargo.
Ideally there are L2 destination chargers in place for folks to truly optimize DC charging, but we mostly won't be there this decade.
For me, who just leased a KIA Niro EV Wave, the positives FAR outweigh the negatives. Here's why. I live in NJ. I received both Federal and State tax credits as I leased. I get $250 back from one NJ Agency for buying a level 2 charger (ChargePoint); another $1500 (give or take) back from the Utility company for the cost of professional installation (no need to upgrade my electrical panel), and KIA gives you 500 kWh free with Electrify America. I paid no NJ sales tax, and I have solar roof panels so my home charging will basically be free. My monthly lease payment is much lower than my previous Hyundai lease amount, which will help offset the increase in my insurance premium. Finally, I don't drive a whole lot, so my tire life should last a couple of years before they may need to be replaced. Overall, EV driving isn't for everyone -- why hybrids are the biggest sellers -- but for me, the EV version was less than the Hybrids because nobody wants an EV, so my dealership was more "generous" in lowering the final selling price; as well as not charging me for the "crap" add ons they put in the car, such as Nitrogen in the tires!!
Cali has a state sponsored credit of an aditional $7500 and on top of that for low income another up to $9000 for a total of $21,000 off, so not surprising that Cali is leading in EV sales and ownership.
Colorado is up to $24,000 off!
In California, if you make a $150,000 a year or more you get either the rebate OR the carpool lane sticker.
@@BradThePittsnot any more, low income only
Charging overall is a time saver when you do it at home vs filling up. Even fast charging my ioniq 5 is just slightly longer than filling a tank. I used to fill up at Costco and the line is always 3-4 cars deep. Pumps run at 9 gallons a minute, if everyone is getting 14 gallons thats 1.5 minutes of fill time *4 plus say 30 seconds to transition. 10 minutes minimum if you count me filling up.
You forgot to add the cost of coffee and snacks usually purchased whilst recharging away from home.
Oil changes timing belt change
I wonder if you can do a video comparing the benefits of replacing an EV after say, 6-8 years, when the battery warranty is done to keeping it for the life of the car after paying it off. I kept my last gas car 15 years (almost 16). Now that I have an EV, I wonder if it's worth doing the same with an EV.
This is an excellent idea! We'll add it to a list of videos we want to produce. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Have to wonder how each car model behaves as the battery degrades. The big question is whether your aging EV simply needs to be recharged more often, or is it programmed to stop working completely once the battery gets to a truly terrible state?
Most EVs are still doing fine after the warranty. Keep in mind the battery usually doesn’t just “fail” like an engine or transmission can. They may not hold as much charge as they used to but you can still use the car and just charge more often. Kinda like gas cars that no longer get the same gas mileage they did when they were new.
As to insurance. I got a quote for swapping a ten-year-old minivan for an Equinox EV (gave them a VIN). Despite the WIDE difference in car-value, my rates DROP. They count all the automated braking for cars and people. I was very surprised.
Yeah...I had a Nissan Araya blue, just like the first car in your video...the higher end....and at 732 miles is was T-boned and totaled. Fortunately I have a decent record and my insurance didn't go up. I have a very good company and good credit rating. I decided on an Ioniq 5 to replace it. I wish I could justify the cost of Witricity. I do have two EVSEs on 40 amp 14-50s.
Vehicles are easily totaled now
I’m not seeing the tire thing. My 2013 Cadillac ATS ate up tires in 20k miles. Those same brand, model, and size tire lasted 30k miles on my Tesla Model 3.
Correction. Registration fees, well for me that is, comes in as huge savings. Here in AZ, a person with a new car (ICE vehicle) can pay around $500/year. My new Leaf costs we a whopping $45 for FIVE years.
In GA it’s EV Registration renewal fee is $210 and for ICE vehicles it’s 20$
@@90cents49 does it go by year of vehicle where you are? It does here, but EVs seem to get a break.
@@kelalamusic9258 funny thing GA has an EV Penalty fee🙂
Most Vehicle registrations are based partly on weight and cost, no mystery. Don't compare a new F-150 Lightning to an old focus
I bought a 2020 Bolt which after all costs and incentives was $6500.00 OTD. My insurance didn’t go up, I did my Level 2 for $200.00 and my annual fuel saving is around $1000 based on $3.00 gallon gas. When maintenance is included this car will have paid for itself in 5 years while still being under warranty. I charge at home so my time spent at gas stations is zero. ICE has a big advantage on trips over 200 miles in any given day but so far not an issue.
Top tips: if you want an economy ev, don't buy a luxury EV.
If you don't want to use up tires, slow down.
Don't buy any vehicle as an investment many people can get a level 2 charger installed for not too expensive, you may be able to get by on a 120v outlet, preferably dedicated
Insurance is comparable to gas car, more for expensive higher performance Vehicles tend to be more expensive.
You can start driving an EV right away, plug it in where you can until you get optimal setup.
Battery replacement is not a regular thing, they have an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty, at that point it's a different equation
I am 1000% here for the Cole Motor Rickshaw Company' glorious building entrance.
6:13
A fair assessment of costs. It's important to get the whole story of EV ownership out though I agree that the benefits greatly outweigh the drawbacks. I'm not sure that I agree with you about the cost in time. While it is certainly true that long-distance travel takes longer, for most of the year I am saving time by not visiting gas stations.
You could also argue that overnight charging doesn't take any time at all, because you aren't staying with the car while it charges. You're doing other things.
I'm from India and just bought my first EV (Tata Punch ). Prices and taxes vary by state, but Registration fee is significantly lower than ICE and ditto for road tax. In fact a state called Uttar Pradesh waived off the road tax for Electrics.
Impressive, India seems to know how to get people to switch to EVs. Unfortunately, some western countries just seem to know how to rip of people. Especially the insurance companies charge you a leg and an arm for the EV basic insurance and here in Canada, there is no competition with regards to basic insurance. I bought an EV anyways just because they are fun to drive. Have fun with your EV.
@@cmdrstevemcmaru7417 well another way they are doing it is by emissions standards as well. Strict engine compliance to Euro 6 and soon to come Euro 7 compliance and diesel unfriendly regulations means no more peppy gasoline/diesel engines and no more affordable performance ICE cars. EVs with their linear acceleration fits that space nicely. Do a youtube search on Tata Curvv EV Autocar, they launched it 2 days back
Great video.
I should mention though that it's US-oriented, and it seems that there are still less incentives there comparing to Europe.
In my country, the government substracts from the price from 9000 to 11000 euros. Also, the annual registration fee is zero (comparing to 250 euros for ICE) and the insurance cost has no difference at all.
Additionally, since we use 220V it's much cheaper to install a wallbox - you can even charge with 3.5kW from a special house plug.
Same as in the US, charging from home is 3 times cheaper than gas.
We can also choose from Chinese brands like MG and BYD and get cars with amazing specs in the price of a Yaris.
I should state also that out-of-warranty issues in battery don't need complete battery replacement, just the cell that has the problem, which now may cost about 800 euros, but after 7-8 years that the car will be out of warranty it could be less than 200.
We are a US-based so we appreciate the insight.
I was fortunate to have gotten $15K off of the OTD of $29,290 plus I got the $500 GM EVGO charge card and a $2K Master Card charge card
It's been nine months yet I only have around 1600 miles on my EV swoopty (Bolt)
Those charge credits will expire before I use them up
I am going to hang out at the charging station and give out free charges
I ordered a Cadillac Lyriq AWD Sport 3 😮
Nice!
As a man, I can't compare a XLT lighting to a non XLT 150. Especially if I'm going to spec the two out so that they match as much as possible. Which doesn't make it 27K less. Fees don't cost more, you pay them up front since you are not buying taxed fuel, they are also the same in insurance as most people are not going from a base civic to a model 3 performance. Batteries are extremely cheap to replace if you at least past 9th grade math and have hit full adulthood in finances. The charger installation is subjective, meaning that if you live in a house that lacks 150AMPs or more less than 6 additional spaces, more than likely, you don't even own a gas car over 50K. Because if you did, you wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. As for tires, if you owned an actual performance vehicle you already know this isn't an issue, this also applies to resale value. Also as an adult, you should know that buying a luxury performance car or any car for that matter, is not a financial strategy. charging at home and or DC charger is cheaper vs gas always, all the time. lol. Again compare the correct performances. Not a 4 cyl 200HP car to a 400HP EV. Time is irrelevant, unless you are travel loooong distances and they have these things called planes, if time was truly and importance. The time it takes to charge while you are grocery shopping is a pointless topic. You are shopping, while the car is filling back up. This never happens with a gas car.
I think I covered everything, for anyone still confused or concern about switching if they come across this video. The only concern you truly need to have with an EV, especially teslas, are body work cost / time to repair. That's it.
If you are a tuner who is still doing that near retirement........then this isn't the move for you. If you are a business who hauls extremely heavy equipment or objects, this isn't the technology for you, yet.
Thanks for sharing this info. I’m fully aware of the unexpected expenses in owning an EV. There is something coming down the pipe which is the maintenance of public roads tax. When you pay for gasoline, some of the taxes you’re paying is to maintain public roads. As for the EV owners, the government is working on a solution to be taxed accordingly. So watch out !!!
Evs don't pollute as much so the costs of healthcare are lower. Medicare and Medicaid spend less on respiratory care and other pollution related problems
I'd strongly disagree about the higher maintenance expenses, but the rest are fair shots.
It's also good to point out that with high enough mileage, you wipe out all those extra costs with fuel savings...
Actually statistics show the used car market for ICE vehicles is softening but the used EV market is cratering. As for new EV's most dealers have over a 100 day supply. Ford had several hundred thousand preorders for the Lightening and the Mach E. Those orders evaporated so now there are plenty to choose from.
I'm in a waitlist for an EV car. I'd like to see a video about the benefits and disadvantage between leasing and financing. Great video btw!
price is a choice, not mandatory, here in Australia there are lots of Chinese cars, that smash ICE vehicles, insurance is lineball too, mentioning fires, ICE vehicles are 100 times more than EV’ to catch fire, per 100,000 vehicles.
What is the price to junk it after its life expectancy?
What’s the price to junk a gas car after its life expectancy?
Plenty of junk yards in Michigan want you to charge extra or won’t accept electric vehicles due to disposal of electric batteries and the risk of electrical fires.
People don't want to buy used to get an old battery that has reduced efficiency and then get stuck with replacement charge. Where I lived I charged 184 miles taking 19h21m, before a trip and it costs $5.28
Budget in 14 dollars a week in energy costs per week just to maintain the battery, this will occur even if it just sits there.
Exemplary summary, as always. Thanks for the great rundown! I always chuckle when Craig says "gubmint". :D
He says it that way in person all the time, too.
I want to remind you that a Tax Credit is not the same as a Rebate.
You have to owe taxes to use a tax credit. Rebates are available without owing taxes.
Pro EV proponents tend to make silly comparisons when faced with the expensive cost of battery replacements. I mean how has ever had to replace a gas engine in their car. EVs, when compared to gasoline engines, are nothing more than trading costs for quick refill (gasoline) for time (charging batteries).
Battery replacement is not a common or regular thing, batteries have eight years or 100,000 Mi warranty
Maybe true, not that common to replace the entire engine these days, however i have had to fork out several times for engine relates repairs that cost maybe 1/3 the value of my 14 year old car. And the times ive heard of people having to decide whether to pay for the entire worth of their older VW when the tranny blows, or 1/4 value of a newer VW when the tranny goes……
The surprising expense of EV ownership is the smug look on your face. :) Great video. All potential EV buyers should watch it.
Great video, but you forgot fire risk. EV lithium ion batteries have increased fire risk. While the likelihood is very low, the damage that will occur from a Li-ion battery fire is substantial (there are videos of EV's burning while underwater, yes - the Li-ion battery is a chemical reaction that can burn underwater). For this reason, I think keeping an EV in your garage has some increased risk for which owners should be aware. I park my F150 lightning outside (it doesn't really fit in the garage anyway).
FYI Gas cars 11x more likely to catch fire.
Gas cars more likely to catch fire, if it lights your house on fire, the vehicle fire become secondary
Beware Tesla body/paint repairs. Has to be a certified collision shop which means mini-monopoly and price gouging. Scraped rear door and quarter panel…should be max $2-$3k. Quotes are $5-$6k.
Thanks
Who will buy my EV after eight years, knowing that they will soon need a new $30,000 installed battery? I will most likely need to park it on the street with a sign that says “FREE for the TAKING, in return please donate $25.00 to your favorite food bank”.
There's an old saying "a half-truth, is a whole lie".
I would dare say you hook perfect this:-(
Scientia Habet Non Domus,
(Knowledge Has No Home)
antiguajohn
When did you go over to the dark fossil fuel side?
We didn't. But some things, at least right now, are a bit pricey but those prices will come down.
ford and others don't really want to manufacture or sell ev's. Their bread and butter is gas engines, and with the increasing emission laws, becoming more expensive to make, operate and maintain. E.V's with few moving parts, low heat cycling and relative simplicity, will take over the market sooner than later.
I’m sure you didn’t mean it, but this video is very adjacent to FUD! You’re exaggerating and you’re being a bit hyperbolic I’m sorry I love most of your videos but this one just kind of missed the mark for me.
Point taken. One thing we’ll note is every item on this list people have said they are surprised about. Higher registration fees in some states to offset the gas tax, quicker tire wear, etc… are they big deals? No. But the anti-EV folks grasp onto these gotchas and say people don’t talk about them. But I do respect your input here and appreciate you taking the time to comment. - Chad
I don't think this video, and this channel, provides a fair comparison between EV and ICE vehicles. For example, although it has been repeated over and over by mass media, the insurance cost is driven mostly based on the cost/value of a car rather than the power train. A $50K car, ICE or EV will have higher insurance than a $30K car, ICE or EV. Another example, the Fed mandates that EV battery has a minimum 8 years or 100K miles warranty. Some EV manufacturers exceed this requirement. Also, when not abused, expect EV battery to last longer than its warranty. It goes beyond 8-10 years warranty and it goes beyond 100K mileage warranty.
We're a pro-EV channel and you're providing pro-EV details. How is that not, you know, fair?
Actually, EV repair costs are skewed heavily by Tesla, who use large castings for most manufacturing. It makes repairing a car significantly more expensive than cars that aren't mega-casted (even other EVs). But when you look at average EV repair costs, Tesla makes up the majority of that average.
Additionally, insurance isn't dictated by the value of the car, but by the value of the car and the number of people who file claims against that car. A Porsche 911 can be cheaper to insure than a Nissan Altima because many more people out there with Big Altima Energy are writing off their cars than Porsche 911 owners are. We're not actuaries, and from the looks of it, neither are you. Individual insurance rates will vary.
Yes, battery warranties are 8 years. Some are longer. Many companies are working right now on ways to repurpose, recycle, and continue to use those batteries at their end-of-life, and that end-of-life is likely going to be longer than the warranty period in many cases. But since batteries are mass-produced, not every single battery will last the same amount of time.
But since many cars are still under warranty, it's hard to get a grasp on what battery replacement costs are going to be. While we think it's not going to be a big deal, if you needed to replace a battery today it's also not cheap. Fortunately, many won't have to replace today.
Who ever said EVs ARE cheap?
Most of what he talks about he does not say how much it costs. That makes this a poor vid.