Thanks for the valuable tips, I'm building a new C128D myself with the new board from Neo, I solved the power supply slightly differently, I had an aluminum sheet cut to 120mmx110mmx2mm so that I could screw the meanwell in place without any problems then to screw it into the original holes of the old circuit board, I ordered a quiet fan which will then be installed.
My adventure with a C128D: I have recently gotten my hands on a C128D (the European version with plastic case and handle, not the CR one).
It was running fine, until I heard a sound like a steak being cooked on a griller, followed by the smell of burned electronic components! :(
I looked at the monitor and the computer seemed to be working fine, but I turned it off immediately and disconnected it from the 230V socket.
Everything looked ok inside, except the IEC filter was REALLY hot, I could not even touch it. It melted the white paste used to fix the wires that go to the PSU too. Some of it fell on the RF shield, so good thing it had one! :)
I disconnected the PSU from the rest of the system, and plugged it into the 230V socket using the same IEC filter and now it works ok. No sizzling sounds, IEC running cold.
The only thing strange are the output voltages (no load):
11.70VAC which I think it should be 9VAC. 11.79VDC which I think it is the 12VDC rail. 5.45VDC which I think it is for the 5VDC rail. I am particularly concerned about this one, because for the C64 when the 5VDC rail is above 5.2VDC it can damage the internal components (according to the C64 wiki). Do you know if these output voltages are ok, or maybe you can point me to some resource on the web?
Those voltage are fine without a load. A lot of those IEC connectors have a built in line filter capacitor, so you probably had a RIFA go short. As it now seems to work as normal you can either continue to use it (the RIFA would have vaporised inside) or replace it. Keep in mind a replacement connector may not have a built in filter cap anyway
@@TheRetroChannel Would this be a suitable replacement: bay item number: 384588800653 (YT doesn't allow posting the link, sorry, just select everything and google it) This one is 10A, while the one in the C128D is 2 Amps. Both are 25/085/21. PS- Under load (READY prompt) I get 5.13Vdc on the 5V rail, and 11,3Vac on the 9Vac rail.
Those meanwell power supplies are pretty good, I used one in an Atari ST. Never thought of using one in a 128D, good idea and I just put the lever down on my 1571.
Good Job with the PSU replacement. I really like Meanwell products. I use them at my job when they have something comparable to manufacturer specs. Can be up to 5X cheaper than ordering from a manufacturer. Looking forward to seeing the future upgrades on the 128.
I have tried the other way and changed the fan with a Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX version. Just for the record when that fun is running at full speed it has almost the exact same noise as the original. I believe it is mainly not coming from the fan itself but rather from the plastic grid under the fan - passing the airflow through. On the other hand the Noctua fan comes with 2 additional "low noise" adapters (resistors in the cable). When I used one of those then the noise was considerably smaller but less air flow... So, at the end I was sticking with the full speed just for chips safety reasons... but now that I watched your great video, I will probably also install additional heatsinks and might go to silent mode too ;-) Thanks for the great content and detailed explanation! Appreciated.
I unpacked my new old stock Commodore 128D today, I see what you mean about the fan in your last video about 128/128D/128DCR. It's a nice machine but the fan is annoying like my A2000 and not comforting and subtle like my A1000. I really only use virtual disks via SD2IEC so I think unless I stumble on a very cheap copy of LCP on disk (the only game SD2IEC can never run technically speaking) I will go back to using a breadbin 64 with 6581.
I currently have my 128 disassembled, already retro-brited case and keyboard, Noctua fan ready to go in. Its a 12v fan, I have a resistor for it, to get it down to 7v, so it will be half speed. Should be near silent. Interesting to see how how so many ICs run in it. Maybe SOME kind of fan action is good, to get some airflow? Nice vid, as usual. Props :)
Sounds like a good plan. Yeah airflow is always a good thing. I figure if the 128 flat survived without forced airflow then hopefully the 128D should be fine. I'm thinking as the air inside warms up and escapes out the top of the case it will draw enough cool air from under the PSU to keep everything happy
@@TheRetroChannel I already replaced the fan on my Quadra 900, which has the biggest internal PSU I have seen on ANY pc. Check out picks of it, its nuts. It had a large fan, which was as or more noisy as the C128. The inline resistor did the trick for that Noctua fan, it is now pretty much silent. I think if engineers back in the day though a fan was needed, they might have a point. Or might not. I'll er on the side of caution, when I do the C128 fan replacement, I THINK I still have the RF shield, and Ill try and ensue all the ICs you highlighted contact it, to improve its heatflow. Seems quite a toasty machine for its day....
Just had a look at the quadra 900, the PSU takes up half the case 😅 Yeah, I think the stock PSU in the 128 will certainly cool itself without a fan. But the major ICs should be fine with the RF shield or individual heatsinks
What do you use to make sure the headsinks don't fall of the chips? I reckon regular thermal paste won't hold them in place. Also, thanks for posting the links to the products used in the video in the description.
The heatsinks come with thermally conductive adhesive (like double sided tape). They're pretty hard to get off but I always clean the ICs with a bit of IPA first before putting them on
The DCR was also available here, (obviously in a 240V version) funnily enough I also swapped out the PSU in one of those recently as the original one had major issues. There's a video on the channel from a couple of months back if you're interested
The 128D CR with the metal case doesn't have a fan - but it does have a "noticeable" hum when you use it, which is pretty typical. Hasn't bothered me in 30 years :)
That really depends on when it was made. I have 2 of them, a very early production model which did have a fan (replaced it with a new noctua one, also provided acoustic insulation for it). The PSU in that one is completely quiet. I also have a very late production model (parts from mid 1989) which has a rather cost reduced PSU, which makes a lot of noise, and no longer even has the mounting place for a fan. The noise comes from the transformer itself, and it is possible to reduce it, but have to replace the PSU to get rid of that noise.
Great video! Would you recommend the meanwell over recapping an original PSU? I tend to prefer originality but might consider this route if it is a better option
I think both options have their pros and cons. Keeping the original PSU means keeping all those aging parts, and even replacing caps (assuming they need to be replaced) can cause new problems - SMPS can be very picky when it comes to ESR and ripple current. A new PSU means you don't have to deal with all that, but you lose part of the original machine. Personally I think a power supply is just that, a power supply, so I'm happy to swap them out if it means I'll get more life out of everything else
Why didn't you get rid of the EMI filter? Couple of years ago while I was restoring an A2000 the EMI filter blew up and it took about 3 weeks in my room for the disgusting smell to go away. I took it out from my PET as well. Whenever I see them I got rid of them. I wonder if the C128 external power supply has one inside? I guess not right?
I've got a C128DCR - which is the one with the metal case and the PSU inside without it's own enclosure. It works, and the fan is quiet. But the video shows some slight interference and the there's a buzzing sound through the monitor's speaker which is audible when there's no music. Could this be the power supply do you think?
It's a UNI-T 260B. Picked it up for about $300AUD during the Aliexpress 11.11 sales but I think it normally goes for around $400. There's a link to it in the video description
Commodore 64 case made in South Australia. I believe it was released not long after the 64C came out in the US but before the 64C style was available in Australia. So you'd transplant your breadbin internals and keyboard into it
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Thanks for the valuable tips, I'm building a new C128D myself with the new board from Neo, I solved the power supply slightly differently, I had an aluminum sheet cut to 120mmx110mmx2mm so that I could screw the meanwell in place without any problems then to screw it into the original holes of the old circuit board, I ordered a quiet fan which will then be installed.
My adventure with a C128D:
I have recently gotten my hands on a C128D (the European version with plastic case and handle, not the CR one).
It was running fine, until I heard a sound like a steak being cooked on a griller, followed by the smell of burned electronic components! :(
I looked at the monitor and the computer seemed to be working fine, but I turned it off immediately and disconnected it from the 230V socket.
Everything looked ok inside, except the IEC filter was REALLY hot, I could not even touch it. It melted the white paste used to fix the wires that go to the PSU too. Some of it fell on the RF shield, so good thing it had one! :)
I disconnected the PSU from the rest of the system, and plugged it into the 230V socket using the same IEC filter and now it works ok. No sizzling sounds, IEC running cold.
The only thing strange are the output voltages (no load):
11.70VAC which I think it should be 9VAC.
11.79VDC which I think it is the 12VDC rail.
5.45VDC which I think it is for the 5VDC rail. I am particularly concerned about this one, because for the C64 when the 5VDC rail is above 5.2VDC it can damage the internal components (according to the C64 wiki).
Do you know if these output voltages are ok, or maybe you can point me to some resource on the web?
Those voltage are fine without a load. A lot of those IEC connectors have a built in line filter capacitor, so you probably had a RIFA go short. As it now seems to work as normal you can either continue to use it (the RIFA would have vaporised inside) or replace it. Keep in mind a replacement connector may not have a built in filter cap anyway
@@TheRetroChannel Would this be a suitable replacement:
bay item number: 384588800653 (YT doesn't allow posting the link, sorry, just select everything and google it)
This one is 10A, while the one in the C128D is 2 Amps. Both are 25/085/21.
PS- Under load (READY prompt) I get 5.13Vdc on the 5V rail, and 11,3Vac on the 9Vac rail.
Those meanwell power supplies are pretty good, I used one in an Atari ST. Never thought of using one in a 128D, good idea and I just put the lever down on my 1571.
I've just bagged a 128D on ebay and I'll be following your PSU replacement as soon as it arrives!
After conversion, you are missing an inline fuse on the 9VAC line.
Ahh yes, thanks I'll put one in. Guess I'm used to working on C64s where the AC fuse is on the mainboard
Good Job with the PSU replacement. I really like Meanwell products. I use them at my job when they have something comparable to manufacturer specs. Can be up to 5X cheaper than ordering from a manufacturer. Looking forward to seeing the future upgrades on the 128.
Yeah, I think Meanwell is one of the best power supplies manufacturer..first for professional job then for retrocomputing... (Y)
I have tried the other way and changed the fan with a Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX version. Just for the record when that fun is running at full speed it has almost the exact same noise as the original. I believe it is mainly not coming from the fan itself but rather from the plastic grid under the fan - passing the airflow through.
On the other hand the Noctua fan comes with 2 additional "low noise" adapters (resistors in the cable). When I used one of those then the noise was considerably smaller but less air flow... So, at the end I was sticking with the full speed just for chips safety reasons... but now that I watched your great video, I will probably also install additional heatsinks and might go to silent mode too ;-)
Thanks for the great content and detailed explanation! Appreciated.
Noisy fans are just part of the "retro experience." 😁
Haha, noisy fans remind me of PC's and consoles from the naughties.
I unpacked my new old stock Commodore 128D today, I see what you mean about the fan in your last video about 128/128D/128DCR. It's a nice machine but the fan is annoying like my A2000 and not comforting and subtle like my A1000. I really only use virtual disks via SD2IEC so I think unless I stumble on a very cheap copy of LCP on disk (the only game SD2IEC can never run technically speaking) I will go back to using a breadbin 64 with 6581.
Always interesting seeing a plastic case version
After watching this gave me the much needed boost to check out my two c128d's here. Many thanks for the interesting video :)
I currently have my 128 disassembled, already retro-brited case and keyboard, Noctua fan ready to go in. Its a 12v fan, I have a resistor for it, to get it down to 7v, so it will be half speed. Should be near silent. Interesting to see how how so many ICs run in it. Maybe SOME kind of fan action is good, to get some airflow? Nice vid, as usual. Props :)
Sounds like a good plan. Yeah airflow is always a good thing. I figure if the 128 flat survived without forced airflow then hopefully the 128D should be fine. I'm thinking as the air inside warms up and escapes out the top of the case it will draw enough cool air from under the PSU to keep everything happy
@@TheRetroChannel I already replaced the fan on my Quadra 900, which has the biggest internal PSU I have seen on ANY pc. Check out picks of it, its nuts. It had a large fan, which was as or more noisy as the C128. The inline resistor did the trick for that Noctua fan, it is now pretty much silent. I think if engineers back in the day though a fan was needed, they might have a point. Or might not. I'll er on the side of caution, when I do the C128 fan replacement, I THINK I still have the RF shield, and Ill try and ensue all the ICs you highlighted contact it, to improve its heatflow. Seems quite a toasty machine for its day....
Just had a look at the quadra 900, the PSU takes up half the case 😅
Yeah, I think the stock PSU in the 128 will certainly cool itself without a fan. But the major ICs should be fine with the RF shield or individual heatsinks
I would have loved to see the actual process of taking out the old power supply and replacing it, instead of having it suddenly ready...
What do you use to make sure the headsinks don't fall of the chips? I reckon regular thermal paste won't hold them in place.
Also, thanks for posting the links to the products used in the video in the description.
The heatsinks come with thermally conductive adhesive (like double sided tape). They're pretty hard to get off but I always clean the ICs with a bit of IPA first before putting them on
The US (DCR)”cost reduced” version didn’t even come with a fan. Also came in a metal case rather than plastic.
The DCR was also available here, (obviously in a 240V version) funnily enough I also swapped out the PSU in one of those recently as the original one had major issues. There's a video on the channel from a couple of months back if you're interested
The 128D CR with the metal case doesn't have a fan - but it does have a "noticeable" hum when you use it, which is pretty typical. Hasn't bothered me in 30 years :)
That really depends on when it was made. I have 2 of them, a very early production model which did have a fan (replaced it with a new noctua one, also provided acoustic insulation for it). The PSU in that one is completely quiet.
I also have a very late production model (parts from mid 1989) which has a rather cost reduced PSU, which makes a lot of noise, and no longer even has the mounting place for a fan. The noise comes from the transformer itself, and it is possible to reduce it, but have to replace the PSU to get rid of that noise.
Great video! Would you recommend the meanwell over recapping an original PSU? I tend to prefer originality but might consider this route if it is a better option
I think both options have their pros and cons. Keeping the original PSU means keeping all those aging parts, and even replacing caps (assuming they need to be replaced) can cause new problems - SMPS can be very picky when it comes to ESR and ripple current.
A new PSU means you don't have to deal with all that, but you lose part of the original machine. Personally I think a power supply is just that, a power supply, so I'm happy to swap them out if it means I'll get more life out of everything else
Why didn't you get rid of the EMI filter? Couple of years ago while I was restoring an A2000 the EMI filter blew up and it took about 3 weeks in my room for the disgusting smell to go away. I took it out from my PET as well. Whenever I see them I got rid of them. I wonder if the C128 external power supply has one inside? I guess not right?
I've got a C128DCR - which is the one with the metal case and the PSU inside without it's own enclosure. It works, and the fan is quiet. But the video shows some slight interference and the there's a buzzing sound through the monitor's speaker which is audible when there's no music. Could this be the power supply do you think?
It does sounds like noise from the power supply, swapping it out with a decent modern one like a meanwell may help, but no guarantees
I'm interested to know more about your thermal camera? Where did you source it?
It's a UNI-T 260B. Picked it up for about $300AUD during the Aliexpress 11.11 sales but I think it normally goes for around $400. There's a link to it in the video description
What machine is that up top with Spider-Man on it? Looks like a 64D but... different...
Commodore 64 case made in South Australia. I believe it was released not long after the 64C came out in the US but before the 64C style was available in Australia. So you'd transplant your breadbin internals and keyboard into it
Can someone explain why old commodore stuff goes yellow but old other stuff doesn't?
Is that a Atari STF(M) or STE next to the XBOX on the shelf?
Off the top of my head, it's a 1040STFM. Haven't looked at that one yet so no idea if it even works. Future project/video
@@TheRetroChannel Looking forward to that one! :-)
also, remove that cardboard protector over time it destroys the head