Wow man I can feel your passion for your trade and appreciation for the homeowner's home glad you're out there! Thanks for the suggestion for the plaster remediation video too
I love you passion and your info. Remember a couple weeks back when I said I was looking at full'o knob and tube house? I put an offer in, should close next week. Thanks for you part in explaining how much work the renovation would be. Can't wait to hit up your suggested video and learn all about patching plaster holes.
The last thing you want is a rushed half ass band aid rewire. The new wiring should last another 100 years if done correctly. Good luck with learning how to patch plaster, its a great time if you give yourself some time to learn how to do it. It may not be quick and easy, but its worth it.
Thanks Man great explanation, You are so right on many levels, so many people don't even stick around to patch holes much less put that much thought into technique. Glad I'm not the only one doing nail plates! Thanks again!
You are just the best... I'm looking for solutions here in TH-cam and by far your video gives me so much hope to do a job that I wasn't sure it will take the time I was thinking... But yes... It will just take time. Thanks for creating this.
I appreciate your comments and videos. I just bought a 1908 house and while most of the K&T was replaced by the previous owners, I've still got one circuit left with mostly ceiling lights and switches to do. This was helpful. Thanks. I do take issue with your statement that the low bid means low quality of work because the but you imply that paying the higher price means you'll get better or high quality work. There are plenty of guys that are happy to overprice gigs because they don't want to do it. Trust me, I know because many of the contractors I ask for quotes don't want to touch old homes. Homeowner's might take your advice/logic and think okay I'll go with the most expensive guy and then end up picking one who was trying to overprice to avoid getting the gig and then they come in and aren't very skilled for this kind of thing.
Plaster repair and practices are extremely important for knob and tube replacement. You damage the plaster less when making notches on the joist. We don’t use auger bits because we are often running more wires than just 1 or 2 wires. We make our holes in a manner not to damage the trim or the lath Thanks for watching and I am a little nuts about my work....it’s passion
@@DonaldMillerElectric well it is a bungalow with a attic but the attic does have a floor along the middle but the sides don’t where the ceiling lights would be I’m totally fine with cutting into the floor in the attic tho if it were needed as its unused What’s a good way to find a lathe and plaster / nob and tube contractor in my city? No one seems to advertise this as a specialty
@@CAAnon-o8f We’ve done hundreds of bungalows You can either pull floor boards up where switch locations are or make small holes above switch about 3” below 1st floor ceiling- drill up through nail plate and fish to accessible attic areas. Bungalows can be challenging, but they can be fun as well.
@@DonaldMillerElectric I wish you were located in my city so bad lol I can’t find anyone here that seems like there capable to do or want a job like mine It’s sad I’ve been saving for ten years to do this and now I can’t find a good candidate, I honestly feel like I should just leave the nob and tube I have no idea what to do
My grandpa own a plaster business, my father tells me it was very very hard work. I think he went out of biz when I was around 5 years old, back in 79.
Clark Cord The holes are how you Rewire, every Rewire is different. An amateur will make more holes while someone experienced will make less small neat holes.
Donald Millers Electrical Services LLC great video and advice, I was just looking more on how to actually run the new wire/tips and techniques for tying into a new breaker box. If you have one of those videos already up I’d love to check it out!
In the first part of the video with the new wires you ran, was there a second story above that? Did you have to drill through joists to get that wire through?
My house has that early button board Sheetrock in small planks not 4x8 covered in plaster . Cracks are everywhere. Eventually I will have to demo and remove all and remove knob and tube then. Wiring has been terribly hacked with lots of cut live wires in attic, some taped others just left .
My plaster is SUPER dry & brittle. It crumbles so easily, and this is according to an electrician who has built his business working on old houses with KnT. I’m looking at options for remediating or replacing in certain places. BTW, It’s Jane, not Jan. @SeeJaneDrill
Mix your Lyme the night before and let it hydrate. Make your donut with a little more Lyme than normal. As your top coat dries…..make a plaster milkshake out of the remaining mix and add water- slick out any cracking or give it a finish There’s some art with mixing your top coat, you gotta play with your ratios until you get it. I do all mine by eye…..you’ll know when you got it.
I like your style... I keep asking electricians if there isn't a more scientific method to find the Knob/tube "octopus" in my house. Somewhere, the knob and tube coming up from the basement must have an awful/hidden connection to the newer wiring found in most of my electrical boxes. Seems like they could just make a few small inspection holes and get some sort of inspection light/camera up there to see where the mess is.
I bought a home from 1930 that I am restoring. The ceiling on the 2nd story was damaged by fire. Do you think it would be ok to replace it with drywall (keeping the plaster walls)? Can we run electric through the attic and snake it down the walls to avoid making any holes in the walls? I know nothing about electrical, though I will be hiring an electrician.
I understand the value of preserving plaster for these renovations, however, it is interesting that you mention a bid of $45,000 for repacing knob and tube as being justifiable for patching holes with plaster rather than drywall. For most people, that type of restoration is financial insanity. My house is 100 years old and the plaster has its own issues of cracking and reactions to stress and settling. Plaster is somewhat desirable because of its additional density. It does make for a very comfortable house. But I think the best choice in most cases, is to install new outlets and boxes and abandon and remove the old wiring. Also, patching with drywall, fiberglass tape, and the joint compound is perfectly acceptable. The work I did over 30 years ago is still perfectly sound and there is no cracking. People are not going to go over all the wall area in the house and try to figure out if drywall was used. In all cases, properly executed electrical work and rework is the priority. In many cases, blank cover plates are used to cover boxes where the old wiring was removed. In most cases, this type of renovation is most acceptable to people on a budget. I think preserving the entire historical condition of a house is reserved for very rare circumstances, and not a Sears bungalow kit house from 1920. Some people in the family refer to our house as a bulldozer house because of its age. :-)
so you are going under the joist? Not drilling holes through them for the wire? Good idea, I have so many plaster houses in my area that we work on, actually don't care for it much anymore. nasty plaster dust and whatever they decided to use for insulation. vermiculite and tiny styrofoam balls falling everywhere
I love your plaster passion. I agree 100%. I hate it when 'flippers' get ahold of a beautiful old house and just wreck it. No appreciation at all. So sad. Capitalism at its ugliest. Well almost.
Under most circumstances, DO NOT notch joists. And if you must, the notch cannot be more than 1/6 of the height/width of the joist. These notches can only be located in the outside 1/3 of the joist length. NEVER in the middle third Use this a guide qis-tx.com/newsletter.0605.asp
I just want the knob and tube gone at a price that a regular person can afford I couldn’t care less about the plaster job afterwards. It’s crazy how all of these videos I’m watching on knob and tube remediation or about plaster.
That’s because the moment plaster cracks, it becomes a nightmare to stop it. We do hatchet rewires for those who could care less about the plaster. It costs about half the price.
@@DonaldMillerElectric Is this because they already had to find ways to put the electric in and to run wires throughout the house, so those pathways should work for new wiring?
Jason Pope Exactly The only problem In the past they would cut open the floors to run new wires. Today cutting the plaster causes less damage to the home.
Yeah, once the plaster is fractured it’s difficult to repair. You can either dig out each crack or remove as much plaster as possible and apply a new brown coat. A new brown coat is far stronger than drywall but it takes a little longer to apply.
Tyler, how wet is you climate? Have you ever read up on the damage outside wall insulation might do to your structure if you house isn't weather wrapped: www.proremodeler.com/blog/how-kill-house
If my team made that many holes they would be down the road. Are you a drywaller or a plaster guy? You should be ashamed passing yourself off as a "professional"
If you're gonna do it that way you have to notch the joists dude. If you holesaw between them 6 inch hole saws you have enough room to get a drill in and make holes between joists.
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Wow man I can feel your passion for your trade and appreciation for the homeowner's home glad you're out there! Thanks for the suggestion for the plaster remediation video too
I love your passion for quality. Exemplary
I love you passion and your info. Remember a couple weeks back when I said I was looking at full'o knob and tube house? I put an offer in, should close next week. Thanks for you part in explaining how much work the renovation would be. Can't wait to hit up your suggested video and learn all about patching plaster holes.
The last thing you want is a rushed half ass band aid rewire. The new wiring should last another 100 years if done correctly. Good luck with learning how to patch plaster, its a great time if you give yourself some time to learn how to do it. It may not be quick and easy, but its worth it.
Great presentation. What does this have to do with knob and tube?
Thank you for this awesome video! Your appreciation and expertise is admirable.
Thanks Man great explanation, You are so right on many levels, so many people don't even stick around to patch holes much less put that much thought into technique. Glad I'm not the only one doing nail plates! Thanks again!
You are just the best... I'm looking for solutions here in TH-cam and by far your video gives me so much hope to do a job that I wasn't sure it will take the time I was thinking... But yes... It will just take time. Thanks for creating this.
cain Kuri
Take your time, sloppiness comes from rushing your cuts or trying to do too much at once. A tradesman walks when a hack runs.
I appreciate your comments and videos. I just bought a 1908 house and while most of the K&T was replaced by the previous owners, I've still got one circuit left with mostly ceiling lights and switches to do. This was helpful. Thanks. I do take issue with your statement that the low bid means low quality of work because the but you imply that paying the higher price means you'll get better or high quality work. There are plenty of guys that are happy to overprice gigs because they don't want to do it. Trust me, I know because many of the contractors I ask for quotes don't want to touch old homes. Homeowner's might take your advice/logic and think okay I'll go with the most expensive guy and then end up picking one who was trying to overprice to avoid getting the gig and then they come in and aren't very skilled for this kind of thing.
Pario
I’m with ya, I’m meaning the scary low bid. I’ll explain better next time. Thanks for the input, much appreciated
Plaster repair and practices are extremely important for knob and tube replacement. You damage the plaster less when making notches on the joist. We don’t use auger bits because we are often running more wires than just 1 or 2 wires.
We make our holes in a manner not to damage the trim or the lath
Thanks for watching and I am a little nuts about my work....it’s passion
So if you have a main floor with an attic there should be no need for all those holes in the ceiling ?
@@CAAnon-o8f
So a rancher?
If it’s 1 floor with an open attic without a floor- yes, no holes would be required.
@@DonaldMillerElectric well it is a bungalow with a attic but the attic does have a floor along the middle but the sides don’t where the ceiling lights would be
I’m totally fine with cutting into the floor in the attic tho if it were needed as its unused
What’s a good way to find a lathe and plaster / nob and tube contractor in my city?
No one seems to advertise this as a specialty
@@CAAnon-o8f
We’ve done hundreds of bungalows
You can either pull floor boards up where switch locations are or make small holes above switch about 3” below 1st floor ceiling- drill up through nail plate and fish to accessible attic areas. Bungalows can be challenging, but they can be fun as well.
@@DonaldMillerElectric I wish you were located in my city so bad lol
I can’t find anyone here that seems like there capable to do or want a job like mine
It’s sad I’ve been saving for ten years to do this and now I can’t find a good candidate, I honestly feel like I should just leave the nob and tube
I have no idea what to do
Well I ran into some trouble but then they used a California. What do you think about California patches
I really enjoy watching Don's videos on k&t wiring.
Ray Garafano
Cape Cod
My grandpa own a plaster business, my father tells me it was very very hard work. I think he went out of biz when I was around 5 years old, back in 79.
It’s definitely a labor of love. I’ve been plastering for 10 years now and it’s definitely a dying trade.
This was more of a video on how to patch holes from rewiring...I was hoping more for the “how to rewire” part lol
Clark Cord
The holes are how you Rewire, every Rewire is different. An amateur will make more holes while someone experienced will make less small neat holes.
You Rewire knob and tube by making small holes in the correct locations.
Donald Millers Electrical Services LLC great video and advice, I was just looking more on how to actually run the new wire/tips and techniques for tying into a new breaker box. If you have one of those videos already up I’d love to check it out!
Clark Cord
Will do, stay tuned
I would like to see how you install the nail plates.
Usually lath to lath board of on the joists, then wire mesh, then the scratch coat.
Awesome video. Thanks!
Thanks
In the first part of the video with the new wires you ran, was there a second story above that? Did you have to drill through joists to get that wire through?
We nail plated the joists, and yes there is a story above this ceiling.
I agree with you mostly. I’m wondering how the plaster is able to marry, since there is paint on the wall?
James Hendricks
Plaster doesn’t sit on top, it marries side to side.
The lime sits on top
My house has that early button board Sheetrock in small planks not 4x8 covered in plaster . Cracks are everywhere. Eventually I will have to demo and remove all and remove knob and tube then. Wiring has been terribly hacked with lots of cut live wires in attic, some taped others just left .
Thank you Donald for the insight.
My plaster is SUPER dry & brittle. It crumbles so easily, and this is according to an electrician who has built his business working on old houses with KnT. I’m looking at options for remediating or replacing in certain places. BTW, It’s Jane, not Jan. @SeeJaneDrill
Mix your Lyme the night before and let it hydrate. Make your donut with a little more Lyme than normal. As your top coat dries…..make a plaster milkshake out of the remaining mix and add water- slick out any cracking or give it a finish
There’s some art with mixing your top coat, you gotta play with your ratios until you get it. I do all mine by eye…..you’ll know when you got it.
I like your style... I keep asking electricians if there isn't a more scientific method to find the Knob/tube "octopus" in my house. Somewhere, the knob and tube coming up from the basement must have an awful/hidden connection to the newer wiring found in most of my electrical boxes. Seems like they could just make a few small inspection holes and get some sort of inspection light/camera up there to see where the mess is.
Dude you are awesome! I learned so much.
I feel your pain - man, I have had rants myself. Our home is all plaster with metal lath. We proudly have a fully plastered house.
Justin Sindorf
That’s awesome, plaster is so much nicer.
I bought a home from 1930 that I am restoring. The ceiling on the 2nd story was damaged by fire. Do you think it would be ok to replace it with drywall (keeping the plaster walls)? Can we run electric through the attic and snake it down the walls to avoid making any holes in the walls? I know nothing about electrical, though I will be hiring an electrician.
yes
Have you heard of the cost/price triangle?
Good/Cheap/Fast - you can only pick two. I say those exact words to about five customers a week.
One of the most accurate triangle theories out there.
Do you do the patching yourself?
We do, I use to do all the patching, now we have myself and two others that help
I understand the value of preserving plaster for these renovations, however, it is interesting that you mention a bid of $45,000 for repacing knob and tube as being justifiable for patching holes with plaster rather than drywall. For most people, that type of restoration is financial insanity.
My house is 100 years old and the plaster has its own issues of cracking and reactions to stress and settling. Plaster is somewhat desirable because of its additional density. It does make for a very comfortable house.
But I think the best choice in most cases, is to install new outlets and boxes and abandon and remove the old wiring. Also, patching with drywall, fiberglass tape, and the joint compound is perfectly acceptable. The work I did over 30 years ago is still perfectly sound and there is no cracking. People are not going to go over all the wall area in the house and try to figure out if drywall was used. In all cases, properly executed electrical work and rework is the priority. In many cases, blank cover plates are used to cover boxes where the old wiring was removed.
In most cases, this type of renovation is most acceptable to people on a budget. I think preserving the entire historical condition of a house is reserved for very rare circumstances, and not a Sears bungalow kit house from 1920. Some people in the family refer to our house as a bulldozer house because of its age. :-)
45k was an example....most rewires run around 12/square ft
When we bid we bid plaster repairs, nothing less unless asked
Dude, are you electrician or drywall guy??
PREACH DONALD, PREACH! Very enjoyable listening to this. Thanks.
Not sure why you railed about plaster patching the entire time when your title was about knob and tube wiring......
Are you serious, how you work with the plaster will dictate the quality of your rewire.
so you are going under the joist? Not drilling holes through them for the wire? Good idea, I have so many plaster houses in my area that we work on, actually don't care for it much anymore. nasty plaster dust and whatever they decided to use for insulation. vermiculite and tiny styrofoam balls falling everywhere
If it’s a small rewire we’ll go under and nail plate.
I love your plaster passion. I agree 100%. I hate it when 'flippers' get ahold of a beautiful old house and just wreck it. No appreciation at all. So sad. Capitalism at its ugliest. Well almost.
This should be titled Dangers of Repairing plaster, not How to Rewire Knob and tube, you did not explain a thing about rewiring knob and tube.
Under most circumstances, DO NOT notch joists. And if you must, the notch cannot be more than 1/6 of the height/width of the joist. These notches can only be located in the outside 1/3 of the joist length. NEVER in the middle third Use this a guide qis-tx.com/newsletter.0605.asp
Brian Henby
We did not notch the joist, we used nail plates and notched the lath, but very good point
I just want the knob and tube gone at a price that a regular person can afford I couldn’t care less about the plaster job afterwards. It’s crazy how all of these videos I’m watching on knob and tube remediation or about plaster.
That’s because the moment plaster cracks, it becomes a nightmare to stop it.
We do hatchet rewires for those who could care less about the plaster. It costs about half the price.
I have a 1886 New England style Colonial with Horse Hair/ Plaster walls and Knob Tube wiring...
GTSTWINCAM16
With your home knob and tube was added in the early 1900’s
Because of this, it should be easier to remediate.
@@DonaldMillerElectric Is this because they already had to find ways to put the electric in and to run wires throughout the house, so those pathways should work for new wiring?
Jason Pope
Exactly
The only problem
In the past they would cut open the floors to run new wires. Today cutting the plaster causes less damage to the home.
My house already has fractures everywhere with this horse hair plaster, also I would like to insulate my outside walls, OUT GOES MY PLASTER WALLS
Yeah, once the plaster is fractured it’s difficult to repair. You can either dig out each crack or remove as much plaster as possible and apply a new brown coat. A new brown coat is far stronger than drywall but it takes a little longer to apply.
Tyler, how wet is you climate? Have you ever read up on the damage outside wall insulation might do to your structure if you house isn't weather wrapped: www.proremodeler.com/blog/how-kill-house
Are ya stupid?!? Ha ha ohhh I'm sooo going to meme this lol 😆
It wouldn’t be the first time, thanks
The make a tool for that
The title should be how to plaster properly
This dude has problems lol.
so..this was a commentary rather than a tutrorial ..OK
If my team made that many holes they would be down the road. Are you a drywaller or a plaster guy? You should be ashamed passing yourself off as a "professional"
Your team, lol. Show ur work on ur channel if you SO good.
You cannot put a metal plate over a wire you laid or stapled to the bottom of the joist which looks like what you are doing. It’s WRONG!
@@atkgrl
I not he’s the bottom of the joist 3/8 and laid the wire in the notch
What the hell is knob and tube?
God dam that’s a lot holes talking about Destroying a house
your price range and holes in wall are obnoxious.
What was my price range? This video is 4 years old.
So a hole saw works way better than cutting little squares, also you wouldn't need nail plates if you drilled through the joists man
If you're gonna do it that way you have to notch the joists dude. If you holesaw between them 6 inch hole saws you have enough room to get a drill in and make holes between joists.
Plaster is garbage dude.. it cracks.
Entire Europe is using plaster. To this day. They also using wallboards .
Plaster is much more superior than drywall.
Drywall is cheaper, though.