Budget EG K Swap Power Mods with DYNO
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 เม.ย. 2022
- Budget EG K Swap Mods: Will it make power?
By Aaron Gaghagen and Brian Gillespie
Budget EG K swap gets some upgrades. The secret sauce to making K series power is fairly well known. 50 degree VTC, RBC intake manifold and a larger throttle body are proven ways to make power the performance versions of the K series like the K24A2 and K20A2. But, our Budget EG K swap is a K24A4 from a Honda Accord. Will we be able to squeeze more juice from this engine easily? Let's put internet rumors to bed, because we will show you exactly what these modifications do on our engine at the dyno.
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VTEC Academy videos are for educational and entertainment purposes. We can not guarantee the modifications performed in the video are legal in your locality. Do not do any modifications to your vehicle that will void your warranty or in any way violate your local laws. We assume no liability for property damage or injury as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Use the information provided at your own risk. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
See I love it when people post their fails, only God knows how much we would've spent on those mods to the k24, and now we know that at least in an N/A settup, they would be a waste of money, and we can spend our money in other mods, so even though its a fail, it still helps the honda community, so thank you for sharing 😎👍🏼
That's the point of it for sure. Now, people can reference this when weighing a K24A2 vs. a K24A4 when going NA.
For those who feel offended I was wearing a mask, here's why. I had what turned out to be a cold and didn't want to make my fellow employees sick.
Thank you for subscribing, don't forget to throw us a like too! It really helps us out.
See I knew that purple dinosaur was wrong, sharing is not caring!
@@1stGenCRXs That's why that fool went extinct. 💯
Why would anybody care what you are wearing? Some weirdos making comments about that?
keep Brian alive and healthy at all costs 👍
When it comes to engine change Love seeing this type of video ❤️❤️❤️
This channel needs more followers. Channel is very underrated. Lots of great info!
Thank you, I appreciate that!
Been contemplating swapping my D16Z6 in my Del Sol for something else, appreciate the informative video.
It would be a nice bump in torque for sure.
this has been a great series. I am doing the same swap in my racecar!
Great bang for the buck.
Appreciate the knowledge bro! Videos like this really help others out on what really works
Glad to help people make informed decisions on their setups.
Love all your videos! Build a Budget EF next!
Going to be attacking a build like this soon. Keep it coming 😁
Will do!
Thanks for sharing the video! Wether it made much more power or not, it’s still very informative and glad you are transparent with it!
Thanks! Yeah, we want people to see exactly what’s going on so they can use the information for their cars.
@@VTECAcademy much respect ✊🏽 you and your team is what helps our car community
So what were the issues?
@@lfuego68 watch the video…
Brian is the man! Love this guy ♡ ♡ ♡
Appreciate it!
V-tec killer !!!!
Ive waited for this video (part 3 ?) for literally years 😂 awesome info as always ❤️
I'm so disappointed it didn't do better.
@@VTECAcademy turning over stones and finding nothing is still progress or some shit lol. Give her a 100 shot, never see any budget builds make use of the laughing gas 😂. Although thats more of drag racing thing which is kinda boring tbh. Can't wait to see where this goes 😁. Is the cam lobe profile too weak suace to make use of advancing it? Is there another cam laying around you can chuck in? Surely its not physical volume restrictions of the ports?
@@jdmnuggets At some point we need to play with the laughing gas. Maybe not this build though.
@@VTECAcademy and you mean for the car right 😂😂
Vtec killa !!!
Time to do killer cam set up and see what it makes
That k24 is a perfect VTEC killer candidate. I love my VTEC killer setup. K20a3 w/ k20a2 cams 👍 Just added a supercharger to the mix as well
I've got to do one of those in the future.
I have one on VTEC kill mode since 2011. mods are: types cams, super tech springs & retainers, type s oil pump, morosso oil pan ,RBC manifold, id1000 injectors Rotrex 12 psi 380whp. It's been a blast for a decade road racing it. I finally got a stock k24A JDM TSX to give the A4 a break maybe put pistons & rods down the road . Great engines .
I still would love to get on the track with this thing at Musselman, hope to see you guys out there one day
We will return to Musselman with the Budget EG.
Keep up the great video 👍
Thanks for watching!
Multiple questions.
1. Can you do a budget VTEC killer setup with this motor.
2. What were the exact issues and how did you fix them.
3. Can you add the Lower timing chain guide to this motor for easier cam swap outs.
4. More videos of this budget build and upgrades please 😁
1. Possibly, yes.
2. Brian’s troubleshooting side mission will be in another video.
3. Don’t understand this, do you mean besides the stock one?
4. Yes, absolutely!
Thanks for your questions and for watching!
Great video!
Thanks!
Glad I found this video before I wasted my time and money tuning up the A4 motor in my accord, sucks cause all I really wanted was a little extra power but what can ya do.
It really did sound like it made more horsepower lol💯👍👍👍
Right? It sounded nice at least.
Back in 2004 when I was going thru U.T.I. (i don't recommend it) during the "Power and Tuning" classes we had about a dozen decent cars and shelves of parts to swap for dyno testing on em. One of the cars was a AP1 S2000, but we had zero aftermarket parts for that car. We tried everything we could think of.. We ran it Cat delete, open exhaust manifold, (lost Torque, gained 2hp at the top.)
Then we made this huge 4foot tall cardboard box intake manifold around the air flow cooling fans used with they Dyno. Thru "forced air" using 36" 120v box fans, we added the lost torque and made another 3hp !!!
What did we learn? if you run your S2000 with open headers and a 4ft tall electric blower sticking out of your hood, you can make 5-6 more HP over stock Honda engineering. (Honda engineering is pretty good)
Yeah, those F series are pretty well tuned from the factory. Usually the Ks respond well to these mods. We think we just need to change which K we’re using.
@@VTECAcademy I guess when you set a record for the most NA hp per liter in a production car, it's gonna be well tuned.. The F and dohc H motors were good. I'm well versed in the B and D motors, just getting my feet wet with the K tho so stop me when i mess up. There are two different types of heads for the motors, both dohc i-VTEC. But one is for power and one for efficiency. All the heads are interchangeable with blocks? But like slapping a b16 head on a b20b block, it doesn't make the low comp, bad balanced rotating assembly cr-v bottom end all of a sudden spin to 9k rpm.
Have a K24A4 with similar intake exhaust and threw a set of K20z1 cams and clearanced rockers. Made 220hp/180trq at the wheels. VTEC killer is the way to make power with these budget K series. Got my cams and rockers for $200.
Wait, explain that setup? Thays awesome
We are heading in that direction.
@@VTECAcademy love to see that
From where ?
th-cam.com/video/wK9JcpY-A1c/w-d-xo.html
Not my video but gives you alot of info on the setup.
New to the channel but love the content one small bit of advice is that I've always had good luck throwing aluminum under drive police on lower horse powered Honda's because they really seem to wake it up a little bit, and they're cheap..🍺
Brian the guru.
Subscribed ✅
Bummer it didn't make more power. Thanks for still making the video. I really think the path to cheap power on the a1, a4, and a8 is vtec killer with OEM 3 love cams.
Spit that knowledge bro🏁🔧🏁
Or just slap on a cylinder head from an K24A2 and get 200 HP.
Yeah, we thought it would do a little something, but now we know exactly what to expect from the modifications that make power on the A2.
Need a new tunner
@@BlackHmong85 why?
Thank you for doing this! At this point I really feel like the K20a2 and k24a2 are the only engines worth modifying.
We kind of agree. But we haven't given up yet.
@@VTECAcademy Put a cheap ebay turbo kit on there, 6psi or so Would be nice to see what she will do.
Woa woa woa why not mention the K20Z1 or K20Z3 or K20A?!?
@@VTECAcademy I refuse to give up either. You know how many negative comments I hear from running a k24a4? Majority of the comments are from the people who haven’t been in the Honda scene as long as us old Schooler’s and just go the way of the DoDo and use whatever everyone else is using.
@@hondrta yes yes we can’t forget about the Z or the A, out of sight out of mind I suppose.
dang not at all what i was expecting!! just got my k24a swapped ek sedan dyno couple weeks ago and it made 226hp and 190tq. stock k24 manifold, springs retainers, typeS oil pump, ktuned ram header and 70mm tb.
That's a great setup! Which K24 are you using?
@@VTECAcademy thank you!! jdm k24a rbb-2. ordered off ebay from jdm motor import out of cali. my tuner said to also switch to the rbc manifold. when i can find one for a decent price(im broke) im gonna swap to rbc and i will have some good graphs to compare intake manifolds.
@@Michael-kv2im you’ll lose a bit of mid range torque but gain power 6500 rpm +
@@PolishedMobileDetailing503 The RBC makes a healthier sound too. Don't go RBC unless you're revving to at least 8000 is my advice. I'm running a similar setup. jdm k24 and a z1 head, i/h/e tuned. With the RBC I could feel some low end torque taken away, which I don't mind at all. I spin in second. But I also did notice a more radical topend. My fuel cut is at 8000.
Just in time for lunch break
Thanks for watching! Hope you got something good to eat.
great content and info guys. I have a k24 im working on myself too, still trying to find my mysterious oil leak, after that it is all hands on project on my 2005 acura tsx
Clean it good with brake cleaner, then run it for a few minutes and look at it with a bright light.
Rear main seal 😂
Dang that a bummer. I just recently bought a K24 from a TSX so I would love to buy that VTC and RBC manifold then (or from y’all)..
god of honda
Ahahahah! Thanks for the support!
Really wanted to b swap my project, but I think you guys have pushed me towards a k.
The B is solid, but the K has the torque advantage right out of the box no matter which one you use. Also, if you blow up your K, there are a lot more options for replacement. They both sound great at full throttle.
Just tuned a k24a4 yesterday.....it did not want more than 20 degrees of cam timing....i was suprised!
Yeah, maybe it just doesn't flow enough to need that much. We were definitely surprised too, even though we had our suspicions.
16:20 nice DDR!
You can still use any k24 or k20 bottom end, you just want to use the higher end model head to make real power (k20a type r, k20a2,k20z1, k20z3, k24a2, and k24z3 w/ vtec cams) 4 piston proved that after porting the k24z3 head (r40 head) with some vtec or vtec killer cams have the best cfms especially for all motor compared to the k20 heads.
Exactly!
Big throttle body and even intake manifold is worth less if the head and intake runners aren't php too. 😭 Great show!👍
Yeah and the cams too.
Throw some stock type s cams in it and do a vtec killer setup!
🤔 That's an idea!
School was NEVER this much fun lol.
I've been building Non-chassis specific Fueltech FT450 harnesses for the Kseries. You'd be amazed by how much oem wiring is eliminated.
I've built a few generic swap harnesses myself. And we have a race harness from CJ's wiring. You can eliminate a bunch of stuff.
@@BrianGillespie_brianathasport yea man I was pretty impressed. Especially since the fueltech is a consolidated unit it literally takes nothing. Had to do some extra little things to get the EPS working in my ep3 but she's my daily and doing great.
Thank you, I have a 2005 bonda element ex awd ,it's peppy, but it could use some performance up grades, before swapping motor .k24a4 seems strong enough for a Turbo on light boost 5-9 IMO before rebuilding with eagle rods etc... any Tips aI appreciate it. Thank you.
That vtc was unlocked
Wow
You did the vtc gear the hard way.
All you need to do is lock the tensioner and turn the gear back a little relieving the tension on the chain, then remove just both gears.
All without removing the cams.
We weren't able to slide them of the end of the crank and past the timing chain cover when doing that. That would work with the timing chain cover off.
What’s your opinion on installing VTC in the locked vs unlocked position?
This guy is cool 😎 👍
No, you’re cool! Thanks for watching.
I want to gut my 2016 2.4l AWD CVT CRV and swap it into my 98 4-door Civic. I have a better time in my Civic but the CRV is effortlessly faster. I think it's 195hp for the 2016. That would be a perfect daily Civic.
This dropped while Tim was doing my budget k24a8 build. I made more power Brian with the a8 motor.
That’s awesome. What kind of setup are you running?
@@VTECAcademy k24a8, Tsx intake, accord throttle body, real cold air intake and full 3 inch exhaust. Made 177hp and 181 Toque.
Do a vtec killer setup with stock k20a2 cam and k24z3 rocker.
What throttle cable and throttle cable bracket are you using? I have an EK a RBC Manifold and Accord throttle body myself but don’t know what bracket and cable I’m supposed to be running
you really schooled me there
LOL
You could allways just put a vtec camshaft on the exaust side just lock the camshaft together
I'd like to see how much hp a type s pump can free up.
Did this have the stock oil pump with the balance shafts? Type S oil pump and lightweight fw are good for a few ponies
Yes, everything else was stock
You didn't talk about that custom throttle cable bracket you had to make I find using an rsx throttle body much simpler for what you did you used an adapter anyway, and the RAA vtc us 30' the RBB is the 25' one
If we'd had a DX throttle body the spacer wouldn't be needed. It doesn't have the cruise cable quadrant. The price of modifying the Accord T-body is cheaper than buying the used RSX T-body on eBay. The cable bracket was something I whipped up. I should probably sell them.
What’s your guys opinion on installing 50 degree VTC in the unlocked position? Supposedly this is what is recommended by Honda when you replace cam gears because it *could damage the internals of the certain cam gears but I see a lot of people skip that step. Am I ok to just torque down my 50 VTC to spec on my k24a?
I thought unlocking was the way also. That is what Honda recommends. I'm installing a Drag Cartel 45 deg vtc on my K24A2 CRX. I asked Drag Cartel and they said just install and torque. Not sure if they already unlocked it for me though.
I have plans on boosting my k24a4 5speed In my accord. I wonder if these mods would help make power when it’s boosted? I already have a 70mm throttle body and rbc manifold for it because I believe with a turbo it’ll make more
For sure the throttle body and manifold would.
Curious to know if the RRB or PRB manilfilds would give better power under the curve. RBC is very much for top end.
They do.
Question where can I get a dc header for my 06 accord?
If im not mistaken,k24a4 is having two-lobe cam at exhaust side right?unlike k24a2/k24a3,they have 3 lobe at both intake and exhaust side
It has two lobe on the intake and single lobe on the exhaust.
I’ve been looking forward to updates on this thing for a while now. Pretty bummed that the mods didn’t yield any gains. Any idea how big the throttle body size is after the modification? The only thing I think might make a difference is a type s oil pump. How high can you safely rev these motors too?
We will try more stuff.
I rev mine to 7000rpm all the time without a problem, in an A/T.
Not sure about the a4 but the a3 has the same balanced oil pump and the common redline for flash tunes for it is 7800 (at least down under), I have heard people in south africa get theirs up to 8500 stock
4:32 looks like the red plug to stop the coolant from the head to come out is still in place when RBC intake is being installed. But video is cut, so maybe you figured that out, haha.
We pulled it.
I have a K24A1 in my CRV and A K24A2 to go in, I have the 50deg VCT and was going to fit it to the K24A1, now I know I'm wasting my time, I'd say the CAM's need an upgrade to get more flow on the K24A1 or a turbo
The K24A1 along with all models of RSX and EP3 have the 50° VTC.
Is there just no way to bend the intake tube into the original airbox vent way in the left?
There isn't really enough room to do that.
I think one of the reasons why you didn't see any real gains, was the throttle body adapter is not bored to the size of the throttle body.. which inturn created a choke point. Making the new larger throttle body pointless. Just a visual observation.. you didn't give numbers on actual size. I could be very wrong.. and as someone said earlier, the k24a4 is perfect for vtech killer setup...
Yes it was.
A long 3in intake can help that k24
I believe you are right.
Interesting it didn't make the gains great video
Thanks for watching! We thought it would have done something. The car has done a few track days in the years since the previous dyno session, so maybe it's a little tired.
That's strange here in south Africa we do that exact mods and the gains are amazing I myself have less mods on my fn2 and make more hp . Good video tho
Two lobe intake cam or three lobe? This is a two lobe intake cam with single lobe exhaust cam.
@@VTECAcademy oh ok I see. 👍
Compression with those mods would have up the power more
howd you guys get the camgear off the camshaft while it was still fitteD?
Pulled the cam out of the gear.
I’m hoping for a valve adjustment on the car and a type s oil pump.
Who knows what Brian is cooking up?
Very good question are you running the stock oil pump
Yes we are.
Boost
We have another idea first we want to try.
So what is the difference between the TSX and the Accord motor I am sorry I am new to the k-series world as I know a little bit of the old school Motors but not the new school lol
Tsx is the only k24 (k24a2) that has true vtec. He was explaining that in the video a bit but tsx intake and exhaust cams have vtec. The accord (k24a4) only the intake can has vtec. It’s a 2 lobe cam instead of 3 lobe. That’s a extremely basic version. Besides that comp ratio is different intake is different thing like that
I would be cool to see how the element connect to the k tuner😐😐
I think I've seen a video where someone said something about unlocking a spring inside the 50 degree cam gear before installing? is that needed or does it matter on the install? I didn't think it mattered because it's an oil pressure system so it will disengage when it chooses. Maybe it wasn't a Honda engine, does anyone know what I am talking about? there is some sort of switch inside the cam gear?
I knew I warned you!
Yes installing locked vs unlocked, supposedly Honda repair manual says to install certain Cam gears in the unlocked position. I’m wondering how necessary this is myself.
Wish I could get my 05 accord to stop throwing the po137 code. Had to take it off the road because of it. Check everything that was said could cause that. New OEM oxygen sensor, new cat, smoked the exhaust for leaks, smoked engine for leaks, cleaned egr, cleaned egr bypass, new plugs, checked all valve clearance, cleaned fuel injectors, checked fuel pressure. Car got me stumped
It sounds like a wiring problem. Check the pin fit on the red/wht wire at the O2 connector and also at E20 on the ECU.
@@VTECAcademy Thanks for reply. I did the multimeter test and it read what it should. Drive about 40 miles before light comes on then it surges down the road. Runs fine when light is off. Going to do a leak down test next, not sure if a leaking valve would trigger that code. Also changed the MAF sensor
You won't see gains with a bigger tb unless your current one is too small (which is suprisingly uncommon). A little faster to open, but if the last 40% of your gas pedal doesn't do much, its usually not your tb causing you issues. I have even seen way too big TB's decrease numbers, presumably from being bigger than the intake or manifold, creating a low-pressure zone.
I'd be curious if there was any differince at all on a dyno. The cam and tune are doing all the lifting here. If you think I am mistaken, show me a stock compression engine, even with a big cam, making more power with NO OTHER IMPROVEMENTS on a dyno. Just once.
It's such a common modification we decided to see if it would do anything.
I put ITBs on my D15Z1, deff feel the gains from stock
Hi mate, if you don’t mine can i know what ECU you use for that k24? Thanks
KTuner modified 05 Accord ECU.
I found it very bazaar for a engine mount to need vacuum . What does it do?
That would be bizarre! Where did you see that?
@@VTECAcademy the accord has vacuum going to the front engine mount
@@VTECAcademy I guess they hired someone who doesn't pay attention to reply to the comments
@@iki911 The mount stiffens and softens depending on what's going on. There is vacuum operated valve that controls the fluid in the mount.
Ditch that hot air intake
Will an ep3 civic si dc header work for an ek k24 swap?
Not really. It comes out at an angle. It needs to drop straight down to go under the subframe.
Itbs??? 52/54mm?
They really worked on my k20
This a K24A4, which has the poor VTEC. Two lobes on intake and a single lobe on exhaust. The cams just don't flow enough to warrant the ITBs.
@@VTECAcademy so would the k24a3 be the right motor then?
@@the_JDM_fanatic yes or K24A2 if you are in the US.
Change the fuel pump maybe or injectors.
Maybe the head just cant flow much more. Try porting the heads and re run the dyno sesh.
Yeah, that's what we think too.
Try the RBB manifold off of the TSX.
And a TSX cylinder head.
Yep, that’s the ticket. We just wanted to see what this engine would do. There’s TONS of these K24A4s out there, so we could see them being used more in the future
Needs vtec killer or a vtec cylinder head ...or be happy with an econo setup... Considering you can pick up a k24a2 head fir $200 and it would add 40-50 whp to your setup
I bought two, one f $100 and another minus cams for $60.
Did you make a custom throttle body braket?
That was a modified Karcepts one.
Is a K20 head the ultimate way to wake these k24’s?
well if you start off with a k24a2 the k20 head swapp not really needed just add a k20 oil pump and 50 VTC and have fun
Yeah, or boost.
mine made 245/205. z1 head, tsx k24.
How much did it cost what was your budget?
Add tsx cams
Put the stock throttle body back on, I had a similar issue with a larger one losing me power
Interesting.
What mounts did u guys use
Because we changed to the RSX transmission the kit was a Hasport EGK2.
please do a k24 earthdreams
Unfortunately, I don't have a car with one of those or an engine to swap.
Make it to a true vtec and put a rsx type s oil pump put tsx cams whit all cams stuff I did it on my k20a3 and make 247 hp
That’s awesome!
I say put a type s rocker assembly n type s cams with a type s oil pump and watch that a4 really wake up
Kind of what we are thinking.
So I take it you guys didn't just slap the mods on an Dyno right? You guys actually tuned the VTC an fuel an all that?
Yes. we spent a couple of hours trying to get more out of it.
Why don't you use a K20 head and add some Drag Cartel cams?
We will do different mods.
That vtc has to be locked when u put it on or timing will be way off
How do you lock it?
@@bobbydelamar606 when you are putting the vtc on the cam shaft I loosely put the bolt to hold the vtc on just hand tight then turn the actuator clockwise till it locks into place then torque the bolt
@@bobbydelamar606 I just watched the vid again and it is not locked for sure. That is the low power issue
@@PalaceSeedCompany I'm gonna get a 40° vtc and don't want to make that mistake. Can you tell if it's locked by those gaps??
@@PalaceSeedCompany It's going on my 1989 CRX K24A2. I'm also gonna get the Type S oil pump. I just installed the Type S oil cooler.