Is EU5 Going To Be TOO COMPLICATED?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video titled Is EU5 Going To Be TOO COMPLICATED? I discuss the latest Dev Diaries posted on the PDX forums titled Tinto Talks and Tinto Maps about the upcoming Paradox Interactive Project Caesar, that by now we all know is about Europa Universalis: V. In this video we take an in depth look at the population system and the first look at the maps of Anatolia
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What do you think about everything we talked about today?
Given they called EU4 "another IP" (known in another IP as Hisn Kayfa) I'm going to bet they will not call it EU5, and that's why they're so careful with the name.
I think my pc's gonna die and it aight gonna be pretty
@@ghostari2581 if ur pc can run vic 3 i think u will be fine
I agree with you that I also hope there will be a lot of automation options, especially as you grow larger, micromanaging everything will be really annoying.
Hope it can be good but feel like what made EU4 great is that while complex it still had an "arcade" feeling to it, could micro as much as you wanted or just chill & paint maps.
100% agree
You can always just play eu4
I was so disapointed with how 'streamlined' CK3 and Vicky 3 were. this absolutely does look more dense, but honestly that's what I want. I personally play grand strategy games for my autistic spreadsheet game with map painting. the main thing I want is a lot of this to be viably automated, because I've seen how the AI manages shit in other paradox games, it's beyond braindead. if you're going to make shit complex, you need to let newer players automate parts of this while they focus on learning key mechanics one by one
at least you paradox youtubers are going to make a killing making guide videos for all of these mechanics lmao
Distant Worlds (1 and 2) got the best approach to AI automatization, you can toggle everything to be automated and just control a fleet around if you wish to
So true sister
Given how casual and easy Vic3&Ck3 were, i'd be surpised. gotta get those console sales.
Vic 3 isn’t on consoles (personally, unfortunately 😞)
Stellaris is fairly complex in its current state . Even on console
It's just feels good everytime you upload a video about eu5
@3:00 I had mentioned this on a previous episode were you talked about pops, and it is looking very reminiscent of the layout for Empire : Total War (minus the peasant/noble bit). And it was very easy to manage, I don't foresee this being any more difficult aside from maybe having to juggle/handle events. I remember in that game too characters that had a certain faith would automatically spread it in the area they were in, so if that carries over too that would be swell
I don't think it will be too complicated, EU4 after ten years is stacked with mechanics, that's hard to beat. But I do think that it will offer too many mechanics you just don't care about. Every province having 30 micro-pops, every building needing stuff - all that sounds fun when you're tiny, but it will be a nuisance you're just ignoring after a couple of games.
SP maybe, MP maybe not. EU5 MP may be superior to EU4 MP.
Hi hope the people reading this has a good day
Thank you deku. I hope you have a good day as well fren
Thanks, same to you
Thank you and you too random internet person
Good day, lads
have a good day mr deku
I love the spreadsheets please give me more, glad that they arent going the vic3 UI route
Vic 2-like pops, CK-like characters and the rest of EUIV mechanics and setting, this game is shaping up to be a dream come true
As a Victoria 2 enthousiast: why wasn’t Victoria 3 like this?
Why wanted more mass appeal. Vicky 2 was always 6 niche paradox game, so they wanted to expand that
Because instead of Johan, it was Wiz who got to develop it.
It rather reminds me an updated version of Imperator Rome. The Mechanics are very similar indeed.
Paradox is triyng to solve that late game boringness. The devs are triyng to make a game that is playable in 2x time, not 5x. with a lot of thinking before acting. It may works, but, they may create a too complicated game. I don't want an excel Spreadsheet to play. I want a game to realx and enjoy. I have plenty of Spreadsheet in my work to have that in my free time... I don't know, but I expect that they can balance that situation.
Relax and enjoy? Brother EU4 was never supposed to be that either. Maybe you just got so used to it that it became relaxing but you shouldn’t expect eu5 to be easy for you at launch.
If you play games in order to relax, I don't think grand strategies are the optimal choice. But I'm not your mother, do what makes you happy
@@reeman2.0 I don't know, I always enjoyed that kind of game. difficulty don't make a game not enjoyable or relaxing per se, at least in my case.
@@emanuelgaluk7844 I'm not saying you can't play games to relax, but I'm saying playing a strategy war game to relax feels like watching a sad movie to get happy. But again, if it makes you happy my friend, you go for it.
@@reeman2.0 No problem. I get yout point. It's just that I really feel relaxed after painting all of Europe in my color on the map 😅.
The pops and micromanagement stuff has me a bit concerned as things like that keep me away from games like Victoria 2. I know realism is something people have heated discussions over in games like this, but I wonder when too much realism just becomes... not fun and a chore lol But the changes to cultures/different religions has me excited, especially stuff like Norse religion having a presence or Syriac. I am hoping that Egypt gets more Coptic options or events/flavoring. Definitely looking forward to the Russia video!
Tbf using Victoria 2 as an example, very complex but you could also play by "ok so i make the factory for the money and research mil tec then fight". You could play it at a basic level fairly easy in my experience, albiet coming from somebody already familiar with EU4 at that point
Vic 2 isn't complicated. It just straight up doesn't work correctly.
Ideally this is mostly just for your information and less stuff you need to micromanage. You interact with it on the highest level instead. Victoria 2 is less a game where you have control over what you want your pops to do. Instead, the best way to get what you want in Victoria 2 is to incentivize the pops to want to do it through taxes, tariffs, policies, etc. Realizing that is when that game made sense to me. I'm hoping this is mostly for the simulation on the back end, like in Victoria 2, and less about busywork.
You don't really do much with victoria 2's pops tbh. You just keep their standard of living high so they reproduce more and promote bureoucrats till 100% admin efficiency, then clergy till 2 or 4% and then spend the rest of the game promoting soldiers and factory workers.
Very rarely you might do something other than that, like promoting bureoucrats in colonies to turn them into states, but that's about it.
Honestly much prefer a more complex paradox game than whatever we get, paradox games are and should be complicated its kind of the point almost
It will.
It's a Lidl version of Meiou, where, for simplicity sake, production was bundled in super categories. Doing such micro-intensive management is just annoying and will break the game. Exactly like in Vic3, they remove the actual interesting part of the game for a very basic excel simulator.
I really wish it wouldn’t, but realistically it absolutely will be way too in-depth and will feature too much micro managing.
Im so glad it will be complicated 🥰
Yeah,micromanaging nightmare.
Paradox players when the game doesn’t play itself:
Called thinking and breathing at the same time...
@@ldib7798 Kings hardly supplied individual barrels of wine to the burgers of randomland, there should be managers taking care of these things while the player focus on more pressing matters such as diplomacy and the future of the nation.
@@-elreanyou're playing a nation
@@-elrean Kings hardly ordered three armies around at once from their throneroom either. You don't play as your monarch, you play as the nation itself.
if devs change Anatolia cultures pure due to Turkish ignorance and nationalism it would be insane
all of anatolia should be turkish period
Would be funny to see the Roma-boos rage though
@@selahattinkaskc8668 even in 2024 most turks are Greeks:)
@@Xristos888 yes, thats how cultural assimilation works
@@Xristos888 most greeks are actually turks
The reason they're still calling it Project Caesar because I don't think the game itself is actually going to be called "Europa Universalis".
PDX is probably going to try to rebrand the game as something else since the current political climate tends to see that kind of name as "Eurocentric" despite it being very apt for that period in history.
I do hope I'm wrong though, and it is just speculation.
This is the game I want.
Absolutely looking way too much like Vicy 2/3 for my taste. I've seen enough to already know I'll be sticking to EU4. If I wanted to micro everything I'd play Vicky 3. I play EU4 to chill and paint the map.
Fair criticism i would say, although I like the inbetween. I am happy enough knowing jobs(wages and job specific stats) aren’t a thing. Also saves some computing power
vic 3 is way more simplier and chill than eu4 if the next eu5 is empty as vic3 and ck3 it wouldn't be eu5 vic 3 as way less complexity than this presented eu5 since the first dev post (don't forget the game is in dev not finish at all btw )
It being too micro intensive is definitely a big concern for me. I’m not sure how i feel about all this pop management being automatable because i’m pretty skeptical about how well the ai is gonna be able to handle this stuff. Like i remember in stellaris when you could theoretically let the ai handle your sectors for you but then it just wouldn’t build anything no matter how much resources you gave it. I haven’t played stellaris in a while though so maybe that’s better now?
Im excited for this game its shaping up to be everything i wanted eu4 to be and everything i tried to pretend it was
It's worse than having Simple systems with complicated UI's, having Complex systems with simple UI's what makes gameplay entertaining. VIC 2 was a great example of systems most people didin't understand, but the UI was almost black and white in what goals you achieve,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think trading goods and trade were managed at this high level of detail by the state/court in the medieval period.
The main thing to ask Johan is: will there be proper tutorial. Shit looks complicated af
paradox tutorials are absolute garbage, so unless they make it actually good, i dont think it will matter much
i personnaly hope that as i experienced in eu4 i will learn new things and discovers mechanics even after 3000 hrs of playtime and this is the road they took so i'm very happy to see eu5 trying to stick to eu4 with even more complexity
I'm with you, love all the complexity presented by the pops but I hope there's a way to supply their needs on authomatic.
It took me a while to get why you dislike pops, but then it clicked while I was playing Imperator. Pops are like babies that constantly cry.
a grand strategy game should be complicated unlike vic 3 and ck3
If the extent to mid-game micromanaging comes down to ensuring that your primary market has wine and beer, then I'm ok with managing that part, as long as the AI makes sure all my locations gets distribution from said primary market.
For me this is great news. I do not want Europe Universalis Total War. I want Europa Universalis Viktoria.
It took me way too long to learn how to play EU4 (and somehow even longer for HoI4, especially learning how to build units AND weaponry and how to move all of that on specific battlefields), I really really hope it won't be a pain to learn how to play EU5.
i personnaly hope that as i experienced in eu4 i will learn new things and discovers mechanics even after 3000 hrs of playtime and this is the road they took so i'm very happy to see eu5 trying to stick to eu4 with even more complexity
I think the complexity of satisfaction will work if it's something that can be ignored if you're a larger state. Like you said, if you're a large empire you won't be concerning yourself with the needs of peasants in a rural town, that's just the downsides of a large state. Whilst the situation in your country would be improved if you see to the peasants needs, it is to minor for a large empire to care about that one case until it becomes impactful. Think of marginal electorates in elections.
I hope there is a way to see the goods needs of your burghers at the national level, so you know to import wine, wheat, silk, etc. for your whole nation with the goods automatically being dispersed to the locations where they are needed. I really hope you don’t have to look at every individual location’s burgher needs lol
Honestly, pops are a great idea. I don't care about micro. I remember that, when playing victoria, I dreaded to fight wars, simply because it would take away from my precious pops and my 5m pop utopia would collapse. Perhaps it's the OCD, but fighting any battle made me anxious, because I knew those 1000 men would be replaced with farmers, which means LESS MONEY. There was an actual incentive to be careful and diplomatic, and not just conquer the world.
You don't have that in eu4. You just wait for manpower to go up and that's that.
Hair looks great!
I really hope the game will be complex and much more than boring map painting and world conquest.
What do you want red hawk another EU4 with better graphics or an EU5!!??
An EU5 with some EU4 mechanics. Not an EU5 made up of Imperator and Vic3 systems. Both games were largely rejected by the fanbase. So why does Johan think mashing two failed games together will create a good game?
I just hope the devs doesn't have threadrippers for cpus, but ryzen 5s or something
I am in for it if it makes blobbing and world conquest as hard as possible.
i love it i hope they keep it
actually i hope the make it fairly hard to make a world conquest
Complicated or not complicated as it might be...
I just fear that you'll need two NASA supercomputers working in tandem to run 15.000 countries dividing 200.000 provinces having 1.000.000 different pops.
I mean... for all those amazing games they create, their track record optimizing their software might be a bit... spotty I heard from a good friend.
A game specifically catered to my autism. I'll love this.
I want euro be focused on diplomacy & war (maybe espionage too), not managing the needs of a population, of which there are ton of other games I can do that in & they do it better.
there's an old meme video on the Russian internet where using google maps some guy is trying to prove that there're only 6 million people on the whole planet
What's the name of the video?
Yeah, I don't know about all of this. It's like they're combining Victoria, and EU4.... I have 7k hours in EU4, and EU5 hasn't given me good feelings. I might just stay on 4.
As someone who has tried to get their friends in to eu4 multiple times: eu4 is already too much micro for some, I think we just got used to it lol.
What i think eu5 will do, and i really hope so, is that they will make the micro clearer. A lot of the micro things you need to do in eu4 are really unclear and unintuitive. Paradox's latest releases have been easier simply becausr the micro is a lot more straight forward. Look at vicky, one hella complicated game on the surface with so mich micro, but all of it is so simple to get started with that it feels easy
Did people during this period have such big control over their nations? I imagined most countries in Europe back then to be literally just the capital and some garrisons across the border to collect taxes and stuff.
In the latter part of the middle ages states did get more control over people, but it still was in no way even comparable to what happens today.
Things worked through personal relationships and for actually important things you could either make justice by yourself or hope that the local governor listens.
There were also much smaller communities, so it was very expensive to control people.
I think EU5 is gonna be a decent amount different than Eu4 in that it may be more realistic than what its like there. I mean lets be real, after years of changes/updates to EU4 its changed so much. To the point where people cant even watch strategy videos that are older than... a year? lol. I don't think WC/One Faith/One Culture is gonna be much of an option in EU5 and frankly... probably rightly so. As much as i enjoy making everyone Greek as Byz... lets be honest, how realistic is that? How long would it really take for Rome to be like... You know what? Orthodoxy isn't so bad, or Sunni or whatnot. Maybe islam as thru trade they really showed off the perks to them trading Sunni to Sunni or whatnot.
Lets be honest though, how long has it been since Europa Universalis was a simple game? I'll admit, i never played the first 2 but I remember trying to get people to play EU3/Eu4. The learning curve is real. Do I want it to be as micromanaging as Vicy3 or CK3? No. And by all accounts they've said it wont be. But an update from EU4 is warranted and lets be real, theres a lot of systems in EU4 that just don't work well. Trade for instance, colonies, and Tech now. I swear I go to the age of Absolutism now and when I check out tech mode its basically all green with the exception of like... inner Africa. Colonies should not have 75% of America by 1600. If you are a giant empire trade should not still flow into Genoa/Venice/England and there be like... well there was nothing we could do...
This is my thought about eu5, is it gonna be too complicated, and is it gonna be too resource intensive for my PC, i only got into eu4 about a year ago and have just got accompanied with starting saves without guides and i cant be arsed to re learn a new game like EU and have a budget PC that runs eu4 good but can be quite slow to the mid/end game
Oh man, this pops system is probably gonna cause a lot of lag like in stellaris
I think the complexity doesn't really fit the eu formula. If the pop needs can be managed on a macro scale I suppose it will be fine, with the single province scope being only necessary sporadically to fix some local problem in some location. If we need to fix constant problems in many locations, this is a deal breaker. But hey let's let em cook, and decide whether it's worth our money when they deliver.
I want it to be as realistic as possible
1:12 vicky 2?
Bruh am I the only one who wants it to be complicated lmao
I didn’t like the trading in Imperator Rome.. this looks like that on steroids. Agree it should be automated. Europa Universalis is about the big picture
I don't think it will be too complicated.
I think the skill difference between a casual player and somebody who doesn't have a live besides the game will just be enormous compared to EU4.
I forgot where are you from Red?
Based on Victoria 3 and ck3, eu5 is going to be like playing risk
needs more micro. i want to see hoi4 and victoria 3 and ck3 level mechanics all in one game
If England gets a chance to form Angevin Empire and it can unify the English and Francine cultures into one.
That's going to be insane.
Harkonnens x5
It isn’t Byzantium. It’s Byzantium as much as you are Vladimir.
There's no such thing as too much micro
Imperator Rome has autotrade so they will prolly have that
No such thing as "too complicated"
Eu5 being too complicated is a real concern. Eu4 is already too complicated for the average person just stepping into their first paradox game.
I wish they made it optional at least, like HOI4's frontline system not necessary to win but helpful in saving time for sure.
There are 0 complicated features in EU4.
@@Nerazmus True, there are just a lot features, not realy complicated
I was used to civ and total war before starting my first eu4 game. It felt like I was fed a lie my whole life in the first seconds. It wasn't too compicated, it was how complex strategy games should be.
Maybe it's just me but I can never go back to other so called strategy games after experiencing eu4 and vicky2.
@@unreg6997 I do laugh at civ 6 now when I think of strategy games but it took me 500 hours just to really get my head around all of eu4’s mechanics and I have a lot of friends who have been confused/intimidated by the size of eu4 complexity or paradox’s dlc policy.
My computer weeps
Yes yes and yes.
Answer: Yes!
I fI wanted to play vicky i'd play vicky.
This looks like a massive pain in the ass. and once again "It can be automated" Is not comforting the PDX AI is not smart and we all know it.
as long as it is not to punishing I'm fine with complicated. EU4 is like really punishing when you as the ottomans can't afford say more than double the amount of troops as Bohemia and your armies get stomped, despite your country being about 10 times the size of Bohemia when you start the war.
if you get stomped by Bohemia while BEING the otto bros in early game, oh boi, do I have news for you :|
@@MonsieurDeVeteran I use no DLC and it usually is early 1600's, I can beat them these days, but I'm struggling to build up a strong ecconomy once gov cap becomes an issue, and with the last few expansions every OPM can afford level 9 forts late game while I struggle to keep a positive income even if I delete every fort I captured or build
You probably suck at the game.
Ottoman has a lot of nomads ın this period. Population number and manpower are not same. Probably ottoman has a lot troops than Bohemia
Is EU5 Going To Be TOO COMPLICATED?
YES. Oh, it's not EUV even if that's what PDX ends up naming it.
Looking a lot like Vic2
Which is good!
Which is amazing, vic2 has great mechanics but personally the outdated UI makes it unbearable to me
Achievement unlocked: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.
Keep the peasants well fed for 100 years.
I simply won’t play it because I’ll have to wait a decade for it to be good and my laptop can’t run the 3d model paradox is pushing
better title idea: was eu4 too streamlined
It is going to be to complicated for me at least. Sadly, I think EUV will not be nearly as enjoyable as EUIV.
Over engineered micromanaging nightmare with 1000% stackable modifiers, sticking to EU4 1.30.6 before curry favours mechanic and the insane mission trees drained everything resembling a challenge out of the game.
No game can & will be better than EU4
Sorry, but i really really dont like these micro intense features.i dont care if people are getting assimilated, I conquer an turkish province,, it has turkish population, ok i conquer anatolia.. a lot of turks there.. guess there are enough i should give them equal rights in my country, end of the story.
it was ok, that culture converting took some ingame years, and it was fine.... Eu4 is and was, an painting the map game. I dont want eu5 not to be that to be honest. if i want realtime combat from day to day, i play HOIIV, if i want my focus on dynastics and single family ck3, if i want economy simulator play victoria.its ok to take some rly good features and put them in other games, i get that, but just mashing everything together stinks. "would you like some gravy with this vanilla icecream?" its both good, but not good together.
The community also is kinda dumb in this regard, and i am part of that, some things i would like more accurat, but i am no fan of uniting the hre with their 300+ nations..play voltairs nightmare, and even then your pc will produce smoke. and the second point is, we all know, the ai is to stupid to use any of these features, or it acts like it is using them like naval attrition wich it does not get etc, its just going to be and even longer list of of lucky nations stacking to keep mighty nations mighty, cause everybody loves that, right?
4500 hours in eu4, i have seen the french ai die like 3 times, due to sheer luck without my involment cause i was doing achivements in india, i never saw once the portuguese or spanish ai die, not even once, exept you are the gravestone.
I rly want to like eu5 i rly want to like new features, but there are reasons i have 4500 hours in eu4 and 100 in victoria, and i wont go back to victoria cause i am not into a deep economic simulator.
This looks horrible
Oh no!
Having to think scares people!?
Who would have thought...no wonder good games aren't being made anymore...
Let's see you micromanage goods in a huge country and spend half an hour looking at excel tables doing so because something happened and you have no wine for your peasants that is surely going to be fun. Micromanage is fine if it doesn't take too much time, but it can become a problem. The problem is not thinking, it's time
@heliogonzalezsanchez8227 Logistic is not complex.
Life must be hard for you?
I suppose you can't talk and walk at the same time can you...
@@TheHuffmanator if you are going to shit on people for having another opinion instead of giving actual arguments there's no point in talking. And the fuck logistics is not complex, it's one of the most complex tasks you can do, especially when the volume of products you must organise is high, that's the whole reason companies spend a lot of money ensuring their logistics are as optimised as possible
@heliogonzalezsanchez8227 No argument is necessary.
You think a video game is complicated.
You are ignorant and dumbfounded by simple logistics, which is the core of any grand strategy game.
You are beyond your wheelhouse fool.
Modern people both too stupid and lazy. IQ's are falling hard, these days.
i hope not
WHY NOT FULLSCREEN IF I MAY ASK
Since this pop system has infiltrated Paradox Games, it has gone downhill. I stick to EUIV, have no interest in EUV.
Don't cater to normies. If someone wants to play a complex game they can spend 5min reading instructions more complicated than "point and click", this catering to the LCD is what has ruined gaming.
I was thinking the same thing, i hope they take a step back and see how playable eu5 is going to be. Looks like WC looks difficult and one faith looks impossible. How many people are actually going to move across and buy this. Imperator/ vic 3 have loads of issues, and this looks to be similar.
A WC and certainly a one faith run should be extremely hard if not impossible. I just hope it won’t be a micromanagement simulation as you try to boost the satisfaction of the merchants to 85% for some arbitrary goal
What percentage of eu4 players have even tried to do a world conquest or one faith? Even assuming minmaxers who want to achieve a goal like world conquest are a significant group won't the goalposts just move to whatever the new version of ((really difficult but still doable achievement)) is?
That's not a problem, WC really shouldn't be possible either way, and one faith shouldn't be too, but it's possible in EU4 because it has mechanics you can understand easily and are simple
What Literacy in 1300?!? No one exept the clergy was literate and some Nobels.
ugh, this is not good. I want to play FRANCE, not Paris. I don't care about a single region. If there is no Beer, someone should brew some, right ? And if you can make money with someone will do it.
This game is drowning in micro management.
This sound like Communism, where the state has to provide all needs for the people to make them happy.
I do not care about my burghers as long they pay taxes. And i will not provide them with Beer, really not. If they like wine too much i'll tax it. Well i'll tax the living sh** out of them. Wars are expensive, right ?
But i'd not call this Eu5 system complicated. Its just drowning in tasks that are no fun. Imagine a country with a couple hundred regions. How long will it take to optimize even half of them ?
The lack of micro management is exactly why i love Eu4. You have a few ways to tweak it with development, and i had wished for buildings just do increase these development. That'd have been a natural way. But overall the regions just do their thing and you can steer it to a degree. Enough micro i'd say.
2 minutes and 38 views, fellouf
Yes it will, this is not eu5, it is more like Europa crusade Victoria 5
sounds like razing everything is gonna be a less lucrative strategy in eu5 but probably not enough stop playing horde